BajaNomad - How do you deal with a problem neighbor?

How do you deal with a problem neighbor?

bajamigo - 8-24-2010 at 01:17 PM

We have a neighbor (also American) who’s had a house that sits between us and the bay of Todos Santos. He is now building a 2-storey “casita” directly in our line of view of the bay. We all live on leased land, and the lease specifies that one cannot construct a building that will obstruct the view of an existing” house. We’ve spoken with the neighbor and the landlord; one is intransigent, the other can’t seem to motivate himself to enforce the lease.

If any Nomads have had similar experiences, I’d really like to know how you did or would handle a situation like this. We don’t want to cause trouble, but one the main reasons we bought this house was the view. Any advice would be appreciated.

bajabass - 8-24-2010 at 01:52 PM

TNT!

Specs

mcfez - 8-24-2010 at 02:24 PM

"lease specifies that one cannot construct a building that will obstruct the view of ..." Does that go for a single store dwelling as well if it blocked your view? I suspect that in the terms there is a actual height restriction.

In the leased land agreement at Campos Ocotillo...it is clear that no more than 14 feet total height.

.....But it dont matter.....a single home went in kitty cornered from us and did partial block of the sea. We bought the other remaining lots!

As far as the 14 ft limit....not really being enforced either. We just go with the flow...because we are indeed in a development and expected issues.

Lights...wait till everyone puts in those stinking lights for "security". So much for the stars at night. Oh...in the lease agreement too...no night lights!

gnukid - 8-24-2010 at 02:30 PM

I've never heard of enforcement of convenant restrictions to building on property in Mexico. I have heard of lots of fights that were never resolved. I have seen a successful technique used where a river was detoured to dig away at a huge ugly 3 story house that was built to block everyone's view on the waterfront. The house fell over and was never rebuilt.

Russ - 8-24-2010 at 02:35 PM

I truly feel for you! I really don't think there is anything you can do. If the landlord won't stop it and I'm not sure he could either then your stuck with a crappy neighbor and a back lot. It's happened here too. It'll eat at you until you move. It's like the a$$ whole doesn't care about any one but him/her self and those kind of people don't belong in my Baja :fire:

You maybe able to write a letter explaining how the community feels about it and get as many signatures as possible.Maybe he'll show a conscience and change the plans. Good luck.

Bob and Susan - 8-24-2010 at 02:36 PM

for us "simpletons"...

intransigent= a person who refuses to agree or compromise,
as in politics.

ElFaro - 8-24-2010 at 02:38 PM

Yea...you never know sometimes mysterious fires break out in homes like that while the gringos are away in the states only to return to ashes.

Bob and Susan - 8-24-2010 at 02:50 PM

for us "simpletons...

"urban dictionary" says lexicon = the smartass' book of big words

i guess "no" is not a BIG word

BajaBlanca - 8-24-2010 at 02:52 PM

yes, the lights are a horror and we had some put in by ourneighbor and the stars are defintely not as bright anymore ... he is our good friend and wanted them. sad moment as we LOVED seeing the hundreds of thousands of stars ..

about the height of house issue - thank goodness we were able to buy the lot in back and 4 of the lots in front. I love having no cars go by, I love not having to listen to loud music all day and I love the fact that our view will never be obstructed. Unfortunately, I think that may be the only solution

wait...wait...wait... you can buy right on the coast, or on the rock like Shari and Juan did in Asuncion

THAT IS A WONDERFUL LOCATION !!!!

Russ - 8-24-2010 at 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ElFaro
Yea...you never know sometimes mysterious fires break out in homes like that while the gringos are away in the states only to return to ashes.

What a horrible thought!
:biggrin:

The Sculpin - 8-24-2010 at 03:16 PM

Here are my suggestions:
If you have the same landlord, quit paying your rent until it is resolved.
Begin an affinity for very loud scream or death metal music.
Start collecting wind spiders, and periodically free them all at the same time.
Start a steer manure farm.
Tell your friends in low places that you swear there are hay bales in his garage.
Tap into his pilar and start growing stawberries, melons and avocados.
Put fish heads in his hubcaps and see how long it takes him to figure it out.
Tell your other friends in low places that the c-ckfights are at his house on friday nights.
Collect revolutionary and civil war cannons and place them strategically around your property. Play the 1812 overture repeatedly.

wessongroup - 8-24-2010 at 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ElFaro
Yea...you never know sometimes mysterious fires break out in homes like that while the gringos are away in the states only to return to ashes.

you said it, I thought it....

DianaT - 8-24-2010 at 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajamigo
We have a neighbor (also American) who’s had a house that sits between us and the bay of Todos Santos. He is now building a 2-storey “casita” directly in our line of view of the bay. We all live on leased land, and the lease specifies that one cannot construct a building that will obstruct the view of an existing” house. We’ve spoken with the neighbor and the landlord; one is intransigent, the other can’t seem to motivate himself to enforce the lease.

If any Nomads have had similar experiences, I’d really like to know how you did or would handle a situation like this. We don’t want to cause trouble, but one the main reasons we bought this house was the view. Any advice would be appreciated.

While it was different circumstances, in the Mexican courts, my sister sued another gringo over a property dispute and she won. But it did take a few years. Have you asked an attorney about it? Can that clause in the lease be enforced? If you would like the name of the attorney in Ensenada that she used, U2U me and I will get the name for you.

Good Luck

bajamigo - 8-24-2010 at 03:38 PM

Apparently, there is something in Mexican law called "jurisdiccion voluntaria," in which a judge reviews the facts of the case and renders his judgment. I'm not sure if it is binding (not that it would matter), but it at least resolves the issues without going through a full-fledged lawsuit. I'm hoping my landlord gets off the dime because this could wind up being more trouble for him than for the disputing parties.

But keep those suggestions coming!

Bajahowodd - 8-24-2010 at 03:41 PM

As people have noted, although bajamigo did not specify whether the landlord is common to both parcels, it would seem to me that pressure on the landlord, if it is the same, is the only real recourse. Any possibility that your offending neighbor may have bribed the landlord? Money talks. As for the sophomoric vandalism stuff, karma happens. Don't do it.

edited because while I was writing my post, bajamigo clarified.

[Edited on 8-24-2010 by Bajahowodd]

Skipjack Joe - 8-24-2010 at 04:00 PM

The Half Moon Bay 'Beach House' below was burned down for that very same reason.

The owner merely collected the insurance and had it rebuilt.

BeachHouse.jpg - 46kB

Bajahowodd - 8-24-2010 at 04:17 PM

Fortunately or unfortunately, commercial insurance sometimes renders a loss better than before.

Skipjack Joe - 8-24-2010 at 05:09 PM

I can't remember. It was during the building phase.

Residents were Ok with the idea initially but were upset when it turned out to be a 3-story building on the water. It was reported as arsony in the paper.

DENNIS - 8-24-2010 at 05:32 PM

HOLY SHT...I didn't see this thread. I guess I had too much Sharky's in my eyes.

Chrissakes, Vince. Where is Pedro on this? He can't be this much of a hoar...or, can he?
Whatever your agreement may be, It's probably unenforceable...meaningless. I'm sure you know this.

Who is this a-hole who cares nothing for you?

If the issue is unresolvable, I invite you to join me in developing a website to sell or trade our property and get the *** out of here and there. This is our time to live stress free and this *** won't help.

When it's all over, I'll introduce you to a man who will give you closure to this abomination.

[Edited on 8-25-2010 by BajaNomad]

Udo - 8-24-2010 at 07:26 PM

I don't think this will be over anytime soon. However, IMHO, the landlord needs to get involved. The property view is part of the property value and if the view disappears so should a good portion of the rent.
I can't believe there are such anal cavities that care only about themselves. Those neighbors already have a great view without stealing someone else's and trying to obtain more than their fair share.

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

When it's all over,

I'll introduce you to a man who will give you closure to this abomination.

akshadow - 8-24-2010 at 08:57 PM

A little off topic but?
We are in Ocotillo and agree with your comments. I keep bringing up lights and have been successful in getting some neighbors to stop with them and others to only have motion lights or us a sconce the covers the bulb and aims all light downward.
Another good solution is a rope light behind a baffle, light is soft and not in your eyes.
We had/have a problem with someone building in excess of 14 feet, but as landlord is not going to burn it down we just look to the right and luckily get almost as good a view.
I think most landlords want to be agreeable and they typically make money when someone builds, a percentage of the construction contract.

Quote:

Originally posted by mcfez
"
In the leased land agreement at Campos Ocotillo...it is clear that no more than 14 feet total height.

.....But it dont matter.....a single home went in kitty cornered from us and did partial block of the sea. We bought the other remaining lots!

As far as the 14 ft limit....not really being enforced either. We just go with the flow...because we are indeed in a development and expected issues.

Lights...wait till everyone puts in those stinking lights for "security". So much for the stars at night. Oh...in the lease agreement too...no night lights!

bajamigo - 8-24-2010 at 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Where is Pedro on this? He can't be this much of a hoar...or, can he? Whatever your agreement may be, It's probably unenforceable...meaningless. I'm sure you know this.

I've spoken to Pedro [the landlord] three times, but he's playing a terrific ostrich. I told him that if I attempt to enforce the lease, there probably will be gov't types running all over the camp; because we have a lot of fixed buildings, it's not really a camp any more, it's a development---very different tax treatment. He seems sympathetic but unmoved.

Deep down, I'm pretty confident that there's no way to enforce the lease in this country, but I'll go forward in hopes of doing just that, not merely harassing the a-hole who's putting up the building.

slimshady - 8-24-2010 at 10:24 PM

Build a septic tank and put a outhouse on top along the property line. Also get roosters and goats.

mcfez - 8-25-2010 at 06:45 AM

Ron.....your house is blocking my view of the sea. Please tear it down...oh...and rid Jack and Amy's too :-) Haven't seen you since we came up a few years ago.....must change that.

Talk about changes with tall structures and FREAKING lights.....now Salvador wants to chain link the entire camp to keep the bad guys out. Mmmmmm... change the name of Campos Ocotillo to Camp America! Deno/Jeanette and the Nic

Quote:

Originally posted by akshadow
A little off topic but?
We are in Ocotillo and agree with your comments. I keep bringing up lights and have been successful in getting some neighbors to stop with them and others to only have motion lights or us a sconce the covers the bulb and aims all light downward.
Another good solution is a rope light behind a baffle, light is soft and not in your eyes.
We had/have a problem with someone building in excess of 14 feet, but as landlord is not going to burn it down we just look to the right and luckily get almost as good a view.
I think most landlords want to be agreeable and they typically make money when someone builds, a percentage of the construction contract.

Quote:

Bob H - 8-25-2010 at 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Sculpin
Here are my suggestions:
If you have the same landlord, quit paying your rent until it is resolved.
Begin an affinity for very loud scream or death metal music.
Start collecting wind spiders, and periodically free them all at the same time.
Start a steer manure farm.
Tell your friends in low places that you swear there are hay bales in his garage.
Tap into his pilar and start growing stawberries, melons and avocados.
Put fish heads in his hubcaps and see how long it takes him to figure it out.
Tell your other friends in low places that the c-ckfights are at his house on friday nights.
Collect revolutionary and civil war cannons and place them strategically around your property. Play the 1812 overture repeatedly.

Absolutely hilarious! :lol:

DENNIS - 8-25-2010 at 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajamigo
Deep down, I'm pretty confident that there's no way to enforce the lease in this country, but I'll go forward in hopes of doing just that, not merely harassing the a-hole who's putting up the building.

So....this turns into a war between you and Pedro.
There must be another way. That will be certain suicide.

'View' management.

Pompano - 8-25-2010 at 07:51 AM

MANAGING THE VIEW!.jpg - 39kB

DENNIS - 8-25-2010 at 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishabductor
probably easiest to just get the F..out of dodge...

That's only an option if there's a realestate market. You haven't seen Bajamigo's house. It's not one you would abandon.

DENNIS - 8-25-2010 at 07:54 AM

"View' management."
---------------------

I love it.

bajadock - 8-25-2010 at 08:01 AM

Bajamigo,
OUCH. Looks like an organization of your community(and I hate HOAs) in attempting pressure on the village idiot is only way.

MUST keep your great view of the dolphins. That's why Barney came back.

DENNIS - 8-25-2010 at 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishabductor
I read the words lease and landlord..and figured it was a leased/rented home.

Only the land is leased.

DENNIS - 8-25-2010 at 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajadock
Bajamigo,
OUCH. Looks like an organization of your community(and I hate HOAs) in attempting pressure on the village idiot is only way.

MUST keep your great view of the dolphins. That's why Barney came back.

It's a sad day when we would contemplate a legal battle with our landlord. Especially here. Mexicans have oriental patience and long memories, not to mention a "lease" is renogotiated every ten years.

DENNIS - 8-25-2010 at 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishabductor
Scary...There was just a deal in WA state a few years back, where the Tulalip tribe had leased lots of beachfront land to non natives. They have decided to not renew the leases. the home owners have decided that they are going to throw a big bonfire party and torch the homes when there time is up.

At which time they will probably learn that they don't really own the houses either.
It's the same thing here.

windgrrl - 8-25-2010 at 08:36 AM

Some time ago, a very thin, young couple with their small thin children, two Malamute x Rottweiler beasts and a male friend move into a tiny house beside ours. Everything about these folks on their move in looked like trouble and the next big party central meth operation.

We were concerned about the changes in our neighborhood and worried about what to do as it seemed as though our peaceful situation was about to destablize.

I thought about how it is to start up in a new place and thought that perhaps the best strategy was to welcome the new tenants to the neighborhood. So, I bough some frozen pizzas & soft drinks, wentt over, waded through the foot deep diapers and toys, introduced myself and said "welcome".

The dogs ate the sofa set that was set out in our new neighbours back yard, and although we never were friends, these neighbours were quiet, friendly and allies for the time they lived there. The house next to them was the subject of a police tactical team event and it turned out that those nice boys from the next province who seemed to be college students were dealing drugs 24/h per day!

We eventually bugged out when the formerly blue collar neighborhood "turned rental" when the seniors died or moved on and the crime rate exceeded our tolerance level, but it always pays to get to know the neighbours.

It might not be worth talking to your new neighbours, but you never know what is possible if you haven't tried this route.

DENNIS - 8-25-2010 at 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishabductor

let me get this straight. You buy all the materials, pay all the labor to build the house, pay the permits and you don't own it?

Not unless it has wheels on it. If you attach it to the ground, it belongs to the land owner.

DENNIS - 8-25-2010 at 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishabductor
:fire:

Yeah..I know, but if you know this going in, you have to accept it as part of the gamble.
Who couldn't be aware of this point when building in a community where people discuss everything.

DENNIS - 8-25-2010 at 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishabductor
How long is the lease? How much time remains? Can you sell it off to a 3rd party?

Sure...if you could find a buyer, but it isn't like it used to be. People just arn't driving around looking for houses to buy.

Udo - 8-25-2010 at 09:05 AM

Motorhomes are the only ones with wheels on them. (That's our retirement home)

However, Bajamigo has an extremely nice house built on leased land. The kitchen alone is worth the price of the house.
Since the framers did not use pressure treated redwood 2X's and only used douglass fir for the footings, I think I would inject some termite cultures between the cement and the wooden footings.

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by fishabductor

let me get this straight. You buy all the materials, pay all the labor to build the house, pay the permits and you don't own it?

Not unless it has wheels on it. If you attach it to the ground, it belongs to the land owner.

durrelllrobert - 8-25-2010 at 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
The Half Moon Bay 'Beach House' below was burned down for that very same reason.

I was living in Moss Beach when this happened

durrelllrobert - 8-25-2010 at 10:46 AM

back in the 60's someone built a 2 story in front of my boss' house in Pt loma overlooking the bay. After trying everything else he finally had his house jacked up 20 ft and had a very ugly foundation built under it (also installed an elevator). The guy that blocked his view couldn't stand looking at this ugly mess and moved away. :coolup:

DENNIS - 8-25-2010 at 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by durrelllrobert
back in the 60's someone built a 2 story in front of my boss' house in Pt loma overlooking the bay. After trying everything else he finally had his house jacked up 20 ft and had a very ugly foundation built under it (also installed an elevator). The guy that blocked his view couldn't stand looking at this ugly mess and moved away. :coolup:

WOW...Sensitive, wasn't he. If you're going to be an A-Hole, ya gotta be tough.

Pompano - 8-25-2010 at 11:04 AM

We all had a gentleman's (and gentlewoman's) agreement on building only a single story home fronting the beach in Coyote Bay. Had no disagreements at all for many years..30 or so...then one newbie decided to build a high rise home. Finally sold and left after several bee swarm attacks, coyote howlings late at night, a couple rotting corpses that landed in the yard from the highway above..yup...right in the yard. Damnest thing you ever saw.

The home has since been resold at least once and is now a rental.

Hey, what's that smell? ..Is that a dead raccoon up there on the highway?

DENNIS - 8-25-2010 at 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishabductor
where is Moss beach?

http://pics2.city-data.com/city/maps4/frs2278.png

Peac-cks, Goats and Geese

Gypsy Jan - 8-25-2010 at 05:02 PM

It worked for a family friend of ours. The neighbor sold up and moved away.

The bonus was goose eggs for breakfast, roast goose for Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner and goat milk and cheese for family and friends who were lactose intolerant.

Also, some family members made some good money selling peac-ck feathers in the markets.

bajamigo - 8-25-2010 at 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

So....this turns into a war between you and Pedro.
There must be another way. That will be certain suicide.

Not really. I understand after the initial rush of rage that the toothpaste cannot be put back in the tube. I won't be crossing swords with my landlord; I'm not as stupid as I look.

estebanis - 8-25-2010 at 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
It worked for a family friend of ours. The neighbor sold up and moved away.

The bonus was goose eggs for breakfast, roast goose for Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner and goat milk and cheese for family and friends who were lactose intolerant.

Also, some family members made some good money selling peac-ck feathers in the markets.

Don't forget the earplugs and pooper scooper!
:bounce:

Now that's the redneck solution

estebanis - 8-25-2010 at 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
a couple rotting corpses that landed in the yard from the highway above..yup...right in the yard. Damnest thing you ever saw.

Hey, what's that smell? ..Is that a dead raccoon up there on the highway?

Just stop and collect the roadkill and then on your pre-dawn departure for "Hunt'n and Gather'n" jez make a deposit...
Hell perhaps a "Narco" with a sense of humor is reading this right now :?:

Esteban

dtbushpilot - 8-25-2010 at 05:53 PM

I'm guessing that you would still have lots of ocean view left. Why let it ruin or dominate your life? You really can't do anything about it that won't cause you a bunch of anguish and discontent in the process. Forget about it, have a beer, get back on "Baja time"........just my dos centavos.....dt

bajamigo - 8-25-2010 at 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot
I'm guessing that you would still have lots of ocean view left. Why let it ruin or dominate your life? You really can't do anything about it that won't cause you a bunch of anguish and discontent in the process. Forget about it, have a beer, get back on "Baja time"........just my dos centavos.....dt

I came to the very same conclusion (substituting Stoli for the beer). It seems to me the landlord is the one with the problem. I can enjoy what's left of the view. Thanks.

Marc - 8-25-2010 at 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ElFaro
Yea...you never know sometimes mysterious fires break out in homes like that while the gringos are away in the states only to return to ashes.

Yup...funny how those things happen! :lol:

wilderone - 8-26-2010 at 07:48 AM

"... several bee swarm attacks, coyote howlings late at night, a couple rotting corpses that landed in the yard from the highway above..yup...right in the yard."

So maybe karma will even things out for you too over time.
Also, if he can do it, why can't you? An inexpensive deck to recapture your view? Bummer though when you have neighbors who infringe on your peace and happiness. Been there. Had a neighbor who would cut my trees when I was out of town - always claimed ignorance.

bajamigo - 8-26-2010 at 08:59 AM

W, the view isn't that important to me that I would in turn obstruct the view of my neighbors by raising my profile. The more I thought about this, it occurred to me that my anger wasn't so much the loss of a view but more the virtual loss of a neighbor, a guy we thought was was reasonable and pleasant enough. But with this issue, it became clear to all of us affected by his construction (which is shoddy, by the way) that he could give a crap about the people around him. As I've had to say more than a few times in my life, I guess we'll have to live with it.

dtbushpilot - 8-26-2010 at 10:00 AM

Sounds like you're well on your way to "peace, love and fish tacos" .....enjoy......dt

irenemm - 8-26-2010 at 11:08 AM

Just remember WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND.
It always works. life is to short to worry about the small stuff. He will get his payback. You won't have to re-pay him something will.

All good input here

lookingandbuying - 8-26-2010 at 11:39 AM

Personally, I hate these types of issues as I just don't like to fight...especially when they are right next door. I have had neighbors cut my trees so they can get their view. Also had a neighbor get me to sign-off on a property easement so he could build closer to our lot line (what a FOOL I was!!). What gets me most is that these suckers come and go. After they have sh@t on your place, your view, your peacefulness they go and move somewhere else. It's funny how the next round of "new" neighbors just can't figure out why I am not so pleasant anymore when it comes to doing things along my lot line. :?:

David K - 8-26-2010 at 11:46 AM

They say good fences (or walls) make good neighbors! :rolleyes:

Woooosh - 8-26-2010 at 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lookingandbuying
Personally, I hate these types of issues as I just don't like to fight...especially when they are right next door. I have had neighbors cut my trees so they can get their view. Also had a neighbor get me to sign-off on a property easement so he could build closer to our lot line (what a FOOL I was!!). What gets me most is that these suckers come and go. After they have sh@t on your place, your view, your peacefulness they go and move somewhere else. It's funny how the next round of "new" neighbors just can't figure out why I am not so pleasant anymore when it comes to doing things along my lot line. :?:

Thanks for that post. That's what I was going through until I decided to play by Mexican rules when in Mexico. You can take the high road- but it is a generally a dead end here. After doing at three-point-turn at that end- I refused to be bullied and changed from fighting back with lawyers to fighting back with fists when attacked. You'd be surprised how much respect you get down here for bi*ch-slapping a dirtbag neighbor on a Sunday afternoon. Worked like a charm for me.

Case in Point - The Great 'Silk Purse' Wall

Pompano - 8-26-2010 at 12:01 PM

Payback can be fun!

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=24487#pid2254...

wessongroup - 8-26-2010 at 12:24 PM

Fish, you're absolutely correct... down here couple of "gringo's" kicking the sh!t out of each other would be considered entertainment...

This ain't the States ... a punch in the face, is not considered to be assault, rather an "attitude adjustment" ...

Just as long as the adjustment, does not cause any interruptions to normal business .... the fiesta and doesn't scare the kids....

Lease Breach

MsTerieus - 8-26-2010 at 01:27 PM

I understand that things work differently in Mexico. I am not totally sure why Baja Amigo is afraid to pee off the landlord. Since the landlord is clearly in breach of the lease, why not at least withhold rent from him unless/until he rectifies the problem (and tell him you intend to do so)?

bajamigo - 8-26-2010 at 02:11 PM

I'm not afraid to pee off the landlord, it's just that it wouldn't do any good. If I had the lease in my hand 90 miles north of here, this would have been a nonissue, and I'm sure some of the remedies you suggest would be available to me. In Mexico, a Pyhrric victory would come at a devastating cost. Call me stupid, but I value my friendship with my landlord more than a piece of my view. And I'm realistic enough to know that the idea of restoring a part of what was taken is DOA. So now I have to stand up and crane my neck to see the lights of Ensenada. Things could be a lot worse.

knuckles - 8-26-2010 at 09:55 PM

We have been on our land lease (on a handshake) for 15 years. We have outlasted every bad neighbor (3+) including the last one that attached his fence structure to our house to keep in his very sweet but constantly barking dog. The landlord did nothing as he was much in need of the revenue. I knew we could outlast him and we did. When he left he screwed the landlord to boot. It's too bad that this episode only served to lower my previously high opinion of my landlord.

But then again, we are still here. Bad neighbor probably reads this site. :yes:

bajamigo - 8-27-2010 at 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by knuckles
It's too bad that this episode only served to lower my previously high opinion of my landlord.

:yes:

That's the saddest part.

DENNIS - 8-27-2010 at 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MsTerieus
I understand that things work differently in Mexico. I am not totally sure why Baja Amigo is afraid to pee off the landlord. Since the landlord is clearly in breach of the lease, why not at least withhold rent from him unless/until he rectifies the problem (and tell him you intend to do so)?

Hi MsT......
I hope I can give you some advice without fear that you will think I'm preaching to you.
I am aware of a couple of things about you: your profession and your ambitions to aquire property here in Mexico.
That said, these two things together can be a lethal [from a consumer standpoint] combination for you. I've seen it happen in the past, when a US trained attorney will bring his expertise to the Mexican real estate market.
In one instance, my lawyer friend took possession of a piece of expensive property, sidestepping the Fideocomiso and accepting Power Of Attorney as proof of, if not ownership, full control. He did this because he applied his American lawyer mindset to the issue and assumed he was in a safe position.
He wasn't. He lost it all. His hold on the land didn't even qualify him to put up a fight.
The dangerous position you are in, that you fully understand the laws of another world, will put you at risk to approach the Mexican market with an open mind and, you and your professional type, of all people, should retain a GOOD Mexican attorney to relieve you of the dangers you pose to yourself.

I say all of this with heartfelt concern for your success in attaining your goals and dreams.
Be careful out there.

Oh, yeah...sorry for the hijack. Now, back to our regularly scheduled program.

[Edited on 8-27-2010 by DENNIS]

DianaT - 8-27-2010 at 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

In one instance, my lawyer friend took possession of a piece of expensive property, sidestepping the Fideocomiso and accepting Power Of Attorney as proof of, if not ownership, full control. He did this because he applied his American lawyer mindset to the issue and assumed he was in a safe position.
He wasn't. He lost it all. His hold on the land didn't even qualify him to put up a fight.

Interesting as we know a number of people who are "buying" ejido property with just holding the title paper and a power of attorney.

DENNIS - 8-27-2010 at 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Interesting as we know a number of people who are "buying" ejido property with just holding the title paper and a power of attorney.

Is this what's happening in Asunción??

MsTerieus - 8-27-2010 at 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Hi MsT......
I hope I can give you some advice without fear that you will think I'm preaching to you.
I am aware of a couple of things about you: your profession and your ambitions to aquire property here in Mexico.
That said, these two things together can be a lethal [from a consumer standpoint] combination for you. I've seen it happen in the past, when a US trained attorney will bring his expertise to the Mexican real estate market. ...

Hi, Dennis. Thanks for your concern. No need for it, though; IMO, any good attorney is smart enough to know what he DOES NOT know, and I am in that group. I would never buy property in Mexico without the advice of a (hopefully competent) local real estate attorney attorney retained to represent my interests.

Sorry for the re-hijack ...

[Edited on 8-27-2010 by DENNIS]

[Edited on 8-27-2010 by MsTerieus]

gnukid - 8-27-2010 at 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MsTerieus

Quote:

[Edited on 8-27-2010 by MsTerieus]

Another mistaken assumption... trusting a lawyer.

bajamigo - 8-27-2010 at 02:20 PM

I don't think this is a hijack. My recent "problem" and many of the issues brought up in this thread and many others in the past point to a single reality, one which we were aware of when we bought our home: buying a house or property in Mexico is ultimately an act of faith, maybe even a leap of faith.

The laws may be very clear, but their application is often highly subjective, even at times defying logic. And from what I've seen in Punta Banda, even a fideicomiso doesn't always insulate you from potential trouble. Granted, you sleep better with one, but it's not the ultimate protection. Our guiding principle in buying our house was, don't buy it unless you can afford to walk away from it.

MsTerieus - 8-27-2010 at 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Another mistaken assumption... trusting a lawyer.

YOU'RE the one who is "mistaken," Gnu. I never said I'd be "trusting" the lawyer. I would, however, get whatever help I could from her.

MsTerieus - 8-27-2010 at 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajamigo
I don't think this is a hijack. My recent "problem" and many of the issues brought up in this thread and many others in the past point to a single reality, one which we were aware of when we bought our home: buying a house or property in Mexico is ultimately an act of faith, maybe even a leap of faith.

The laws may be very clear, but their application is often highly subjective, even at times defying logic. And from what I've seen in Punta Banda, even a fideicomiso doesn't always insulate you from potential trouble. Granted, you sleep better with one, but it's not the ultimate protection. Our guiding principle in buying our house was, don't buy it unless you can afford to walk away from it.

I don't disagree with you, Amigo. However, your unfortunate situation is one more example of why, IMHO, it is particularly dangerous to buy on leased land. In such a case, EVEN if the laws are clear, and EVEN if there is a good case to make against the violator, the lessor lacks standing to pursue any remedy.

bajamigo - 8-27-2010 at 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MsTerieus

Quote:

You're right, and I knew that from the get-go. At least in this area, people tend to shop the landlord as much as the property. The object is to pick one you think will afford you however many years you'll want to live on his land. Most of us down here are fully aware that you can't make the landlord "perform," because a lease is just that---it's not an enforceable contract.

MsTerieus - 8-27-2010 at 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajamigo
Most of us down here are fully aware that you can't make the landlord "perform," because a lease is just that---it's not an enforceable contract.

What are you talking about? Of COURSE a lease is an enforceable contract! (subject, of course, to any shenanigans of the local courts, judges, etc.) The problem is that you cannot go directly after the neighbor; you must go after your landlord and force HIM to go after the neighbor. You pointed out a good reason why such an action would not be wise, i.e., it would ruin your relationship with the landlord. The situation MIGHT be different if you could go after the neighbor instead.

Cypress - 8-27-2010 at 03:01 PM

" lex talionis" and more "lex talionis". :yes:

bajamigo - 8-27-2010 at 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MsTerieus

Quote:

Originally posted by bajamigo
Most of us down here are fully aware that you can't make the landlord "perform," because a lease is just that---it's not an enforceable contract.

What are you talking about? Of COURSE a lease is an enforceable contract! (subject, of course, to any shenanigans of the local courts, judges, etc.)

The laws may be very clear, but their application is often highly subjective, even at times defying logic. Sorry about repeating myself.

DENNIS - 8-27-2010 at 03:33 PM

The laws here are just as much a matter of who you know as what you know. When and if disputes sink to the last level of interpretation in DF, it's a matter of who gets there first with the most fun tickets. That's just the way it is.

See what I mean, MsT? Lots to learn...and unlearn.

comitan - 8-27-2010 at 04:09 PM

Dennis to expand on that, I got into bad trouble one time and had friends help me, the reason I got out of the trouble is the prominent people opened doors for me.

k-rico - 8-27-2010 at 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajamigo
And from what I've seen in Punta Banda, even a fideicomiso doesn't always insulate you from potential trouble.

Please elaborate. What problems have you seen with land held within a fideicomiso?

DENNIS - 8-27-2010 at 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
Dennis to expand on that, I got into bad trouble one time and had friends help me, the reason I got out of the trouble is the prominent people opened doors for me.

That's the way it is, Wiley. The Mexican way........and who you know. For a person to go onto business down here and not join the Chamber of Commerce or Rotary etc. is just plain self-induced isolation. Whoever wants to survive in this climate has to have some phone numbers handy and has to be willing to give as well as receive.

DENNIS - 8-27-2010 at 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
Please elaborate. What problems have you seen with land held within a fideicomiso?

I think some of the owners out at Punta Banda who were dispossesed of their houses had Fideicomisos.

[Edited on 8-27-2010 by DENNIS]

k-rico - 8-27-2010 at 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
Please elaborate. What problems have you seen with land held within a fideicomiso?

I think some of the owners out at Punta Banda who were dispossesed of their houses had Fideicomisos.

[Edited on 8-27-2010 by DENNIS]

I thought that was all leased land. I'd sure like to know for sure if houses held within a fideicomiso were "dispossesed" and if so the details, especially the bank involved.

Hard to believe. It would be the first time I've heard of such a thing and I've been reading about fideicomisos and Mexican land ownership for over 6 years.

If it happened, it sure is a rare event. But then again, the Punta Banda debacle was an extremely rare event. Too bad it's used as an example of issues surrounding Mexican real estate transactions.

[Edited on 8-28-2010 by k-rico]

Udo - 8-27-2010 at 05:15 PM

K-rico:

Please check out the recent thread on the Tenacatita Bay evictions, everything was done by the book, by the owners, including the banks involved

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
I thought that was all leased land. I'd sure like to know for sure if houses held within a fideicomiso were "dispossesed" and if so the details, especially the bank involved.

Hard to believe. It would be the first time I've heard of such a thing and I've been reading about fideicomisos and Mexican land ownership for over 6 years.

If it happened, it sure is a rare event. But then again, the Punta Banda debacle was an extremely rare event. Too bad it's used as an example of issues surrounding Mexican real estate transactions.

[Edited on 8-28-2010 by k-rico]

monoloco - 8-27-2010 at 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MsTerieus

Quote:

Originally posted by bajamigo
Most of us down here are fully aware that you can't make the landlord "perform," because a lease is just that---it's not an enforceable contract.

Yeah, you can hire a lawyer and take them to court, and in 10 years when it's finally decided your lease will have already expired and the only ones to have gained from the whole exercise will have been the lawyers. The only reasons to start a court proceeding in Mexico are to either tie something up for a long time or to drain someones bank account, to hope for any other outcome is pure fantasy.

[Edited on 8-28-2010 by monoloco]

MsTerieus - 8-27-2010 at 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by monoloco
Yeah, you can hire a lawyer and take them to court, and in 10 years when it's finally decided your lease will have already expired and the only ones to have gained from the whole exercise will have been the lawyers. The only reasons to start a court proceeding in Mexico are to either tie something up for a long time or to drain someones bank account, to hope for any other outcome is pure fantasy.

Well, the same can be said for litigation in the U.S., with possibly one difference being that, at the end of the 10-year period (or whenever), something akin to justice may be achieved.

Mulegena - 8-27-2010 at 08:43 PM

BUYING REAL ESTATE IN MEXICO

Here are some guidelines for success in a real estate acquisition in Mexico:

1. Be sure the agent you select to represent you is a real estate professional. He or she should be a member of AMPI, the Mexican National Real Estate Association. Ask for references, check them out. Be satisfied the person representing you is experienced in Mexican transactions.

2. Insist that the person representing you, represent ONLY you, the buyer, and not also the seller unless you understand, agree to and sign an agency disclosure agreement.

3. Consider only the purchase of PRIVATE property. Ejidal property is often offered at a far lower price but it cannot legally be sold or promised to be sold until it becomes private property.

4. Be certain that you and your agent are dealing ONLY with the owner of record or his or her legitimate power of attorney. Insist upon receiving a copy of the seller’s deed as a condition of your offer. If you
and /or your agent don’t understand Spanish, get it translated.

5. . Avoid costly and time consuming litigation, insist upon including a binding arbitration clause in your contracts with the seller and other parties involved.

6. Get a title investigation and buy title insurance for the full amount of your purchase price. While the initial search may seem expensive for some areas, the title policy transfers risk to the insurance company, and minimizes yours as the buyer.

7. Think carefully about how you acquire title in order to avoid or minimize probate and transfer costs in the future.
8. Closing costs may run from 13% to 20% of the cost of a $50,000. dll. property! The multimillion dollar property will be about 3.5% of purchase price. Certain costs are fixed regardless of value. Be sure to budget for closing costs and get a full estimate in writing from the company supervising your transfer.

9. The major portion of your payment for the property should be withheld or held in escrow until the deed has been signed by the seller and, if applicable, the bank trustee (if a fideicomiso).

10. INSIST upon receiving a registered title document for your property. If the seller is financing the property, sign a document protecting his interests in the event of your default. Be SURE you know the amount which is declared in your deed and understand the tax implications of same.

11. Use an experienced neutral third party to supervise the transfer of title to you.

taken from Yahoo Group: La Paz Gringos today
re: settlement-co.com

BajaBlanca - 8-27-2010 at 08:52 PM

Mulegena - good information. Especially on the Ejido portion.

What I find confusing is why a bank wd hold a fideicomiso on a title that was not valid.

MsTerieus - 8-27-2010 at 09:20 PM

Yes, good advice. I'd add to it:

(1) DON'T agree to dual representation, i.e., having the agent represent both parties.

(2) Consider, especially if there is anything complicated about the way you plan to hold the property, retaining an attorney to review the paperwork.

Frankly, if I find a property on my own, I am not sure how useful a real estate agent would even be to me.

As to why a bank would hold an invalid title: Banks don't do the title searches, and they probably don't care WHAT they are holding, as long as their fees are paid.

wilderone - 8-28-2010 at 09:01 AM

"binding arbitration" - are there qualified aritrators in the region where the property is? Most land disputes need to be adjudicated in the county where the property is situated. And never waive your right to a jury trial.

"title policy transfers risk to the insurance company" - absolutely read the title pollicy exclusions - you'll find many.

"If the seller is financing the property, sign a document protecting his interests in the event of your default." What protection of his interests would this document specify? His right to claim back property through foreclosure procedure? Payment regardless?

MsTerieus - 8-28-2010 at 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
"binding arbitration" - are there qualified aritrators in the region where the property is? Most land disputes need to be adjudicated in the county where the property is situated. And never waive your right to a jury trial.

"title policy transfers risk to the insurance company" - absolutely read the title pollicy exclusions - you'll find many.

"If the seller is financing the property, sign a document protecting his interests in the event of your default." What protection of his interests would this document specify? His right to claim back property through foreclosure procedure? Payment regardless?

Good point about exclusions in title insurance.

At least in the US:

(a) An agreement to submit disputes to binding arbitration IS a waiver of jury or any other court trial. Such a waiver IS OFTEN a prudent thing to do, depending on the circumstances, and maybe even more so in Mexico.

(b) The parties may agree to hold the arbitration wherever they want, with whatever arbitrator they want. (I'd guess that a good arbitrator would be a willing competent and ethical notario or other real estate attorney (if such exist).

wessongroup - 8-28-2010 at 02:44 PM

from the Wall Street Journal:

"In the Mexican judicial system, testimony isn't given in an open courtroom before a jury, but in office cubicles in front of lawyers. Typically, neither the judge nor the defendant is present. The judge rules based on the transcript and case file."...

monoloco - 8-28-2010 at 02:53 PM

Avoid the Mexican legal system at all costs, it is a joke, they are still using onion skin and carbon paper. They have one person at the court whose only job is to bind together all the case files with a needle and thread. I'm not joking about this. The average case takes 10 years to adjudicate.