BajaNomad - BLACK SEA BASS - MERO

BLACK SEA BASS - MERO

BajaBlanca - 9-15-2010 at 10:29 AM

Hi all, I have heard that Punta Abreojos is holding their fishing tournament this weekend and that MERO will be one of the fish included.

My request is 2fold:

1. I fyou are somehow related or know anyone in Punta Abreojos, please let them all know that this is not a good thing (assuming that you agree with me on this).

2. Can anyone send me a link or information on why this species is protected ? I wrote to the fishing coop and I wrote to the governor but I need more ammunition ie FACTS.

What I know: It takes 15 years for black sea bass to reach 150 lbs., the 300 lb. female has 6 million eggs, some of them reach the age of 200 years (that was my "ahaaaaaaaaaaaa" moment, I told them these fish were as old as Mexico's Independence so they should be saved as a memento.

Any help wd be very appreciated. :yes:

bajabass - 9-15-2010 at 10:38 AM

As far as I know, the black sea bass is only a protected species in California. They have made a strong comeback in recent years up and down the coast. Yes, they are a slow growing fish. Too bad the meat is delicious, so I'll doubt you will have any luck in Mexico, trying to get them protected. From what I have picked up on the internet, the Mexican population of BSB is strong. Limited access to much of the Pacific coast is the reason. Hopefully they will not go the way of the totuava!!

sanquintinsince73 - 9-15-2010 at 11:25 AM

Quote:

What I know: It takes 15 years for black sea bass to reach 150 lbs., the 300 lb. female has 6 million eggs, some of them reach the age of 200 years (that was my "ahaaaaaaaaaaaa" moment, I told them these fish were as old as Mexico's Independence so they should be saved as a memento.

Any help wd be very appreciated. :yes:

......or served as a memento.

krafty - 9-15-2010 at 11:34 AM

So when I see MERO in Commercial it is black sea bass????? who knew.....

sancho - 9-15-2010 at 12:10 PM

As you probably know, there is a Pesca
office in downtown San Diego, but you would
probably would not get a clear answer.
Mexfish.com, G kiras site does not mention
Stereolepis gigas, as being on the no take
list for sportfishing in Mex. The Midriff , San Felipe
fishing charters, take Black Sea Bass.
Have heard of it mentioned Calif may at some
point have limited take.
However gentlemans rules suggest leave the
Big ones alone

Pescador - 9-15-2010 at 12:29 PM

Just ask Juanchys to get it stopped.

Ken Bondy - 9-15-2010 at 12:44 PM

whistler - agree it was the spearfishermen who (almost) caused the demise of BSB in California. BSB are large, curious, slow and docile; a perfect target for a spearfisherman. I am repulsed by the many old photos I have seen with a 500#+ BSB hanging on a hook next to a gloating spearfisherman with his gun; as if he had done something heroic and brave. It is wonderful to see the comeback they are making now.

Skipjack Joe - 9-15-2010 at 06:32 PM

Are the spearfisherman responsible for wiping out most of the gulf grouper in the cortez?

Ray Cannon writes about the almost endless supply of grouper from point lobos off the end of Carmen during those early years. A friend of mine came down right after the highway was paved and remembers seeing huge gulf grouper while snorkeling from the beaches of Concepcion Bay.

I guess that makes me a bad person

skipowell - 9-15-2010 at 06:54 PM

I order the black sea bass every opportunity I get in Mexico!
I was under the impression that it was thriving in Mexico.

Please don't tell me otherwise!

bajafam - 9-15-2010 at 09:50 PM

oh why does it have to taste so good?? Well, I've eaten it once, but I will (try) to not eat anymore. Thanks for the info, Blanca, I had no idea. And I hope you get somewhere with the tourney.

TonyC - 9-15-2010 at 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass Yes, they are a slow growing fish. Too bad the meat is delicious, so I'll doubt you will have any luck in Mexico, trying to get them protected.

La verdad.

BajaBlanca - 9-16-2010 at 09:14 PM

Juanchy knows, wehave talked about it for 2 days now ....

the president of the coop in Abreojos sent me a loooooooooooonnnnnng email telling me that there was nothing he could do. I wrote to the governor's assistant, let's see if he can get somwhere.

Les is the one who most educated me about the danger of fishing out the mero ...he is adamant about protecting them. And I don't know how Juanchy got educated, but he gets very upset too...La Bocana is still netting, which is absurd as well.....

dean miller - 9-17-2010 at 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy
whistler - agree it was the spearfishermen who (almost) caused the demise of BSB in California. BSB are large, curious, slow and docile; a perfect target for a spearfisherman. *** I am repulsed by the many old photos I have seen with a 500#+ BSB hanging on a hook next to a gloating spearfisherman with his gun; as if he had done something heroic and brave.*** It is wonderful to see the comeback they are making now.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nonsense!

Spear fisherman proudly displaying a 500 pound + BSB they had speared!

Nonsense! Utterly nonsense!

The spear fishermen were a very small component of the demised of the BSB but certainly not solely responsible -- ever greater numbers were taken by the wishing stick fishermen during the same time period. However in those days of yesteryear it was front page news when one was speared.........

If you, as a modern late model tube sucking bubble blower, were the least bit acquainted with the development of spear guns and spear fishing techniques you would recognize that both were in their infancy as compared the pole fishermen who had been developing their equipment and techniques since before Sir Isaac Walton published the Compleat Angler in 1654.

To spear a BSB required hours and hours of in water hunting with no or minimal thermal protection, specialized often home made dedicated spear guns with special rigging to control and subdue the fish and even more specialized equipment to horse the fish into the boat.

For you information following is the recognized world records for this magnificent fish as recorded by the International Underwater Spearfishing Association as compiled by the late Ralph Davis

Spear fishing -- Black Sea Bass (Stereolepis gigas)

World RECORDS:

1953 Herb Sampson Costa Mesa 172-1/2 pounds
1954 Jack Prodanovich San Diego 310 pounds
1954 Wally Potts San Diego 401 1/2 pounds
1956 Ron Church La Jolla 464 1/2 pounds
1960 John ( Jack) Dudley Scotsmans cove,Orange county 480 pounds

Current and last and final record
Bob Stansberry-San Clemente Island 518 pounds.

As you will note the spearing lasted only a short time and only 6 WR were recorded

I knew them all and dove with many of them and have pictures of Herb, Jack Wally Ron and Jack standing by or horsing the fish to the surface or setting on the fish but none of Bob with the last record breaking fish...Neither does Bob, Perhaps you had one taken with your Baby Brownie camera? Please proudly display it -- Bob and the world would like to view it

SDM

islandhop - 9-17-2010 at 04:48 PM

My buddy hands me my new underwater camera that I haven't used yet... We are anchored off San Clemente Isl. Ca. About two weeks ago.. I dive down to about 40 ' and there to greet me was a monster grouper (bsb) I'm in a hurry trying to take photos with a camera I dont really know how to use, While this big guy, maybe 150 lbs at least, circles me slowly about 8 ft away. I did manage to get 2 or 3 photos out of focus, with a line through the middle, otherwise awful photos. 10 or so minutes later I see 2 more bigger guys that swim by very close.. Point is that I have seen them my last 3 trips out there so I think that they are back in numbers.. They are not afraid of divers ..

Ken Bondy - 9-17-2010 at 05:35 PM

dean

Even after filtering out all your sarcasm and bizarre insults, I still don't understand your point

++Ken++

PS "...a modern late model tube sucking bubble blower..." That's by far the strangest thing I've ever been called. I kinda like it

[Edited on 9-18-2010 by Ken Bondy]

Skipjack Joe - 9-17-2010 at 05:43 PM

Sounds a lot like Skeet.

Omigosh, is that what our 'golden' years are going to be like ?

Ken Bondy - 9-17-2010 at 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Sounds a lot like Skeet.

Omigosh, is that what our 'golden' years are going to be like ?

Sheesh, I sure hope not Igor. I've always liked Dean's posts, and I think I actually met him once or twice over the years. But I have no idea what he is talking about here.

Russ - 9-17-2010 at 07:01 PM

From dean millers' post:
".... To spear a BSB required hours and hours of in water hunting with no or minimal thermal protection, specialized often home made dedicated spear guns with special rigging to control and subdue the fish and even more specialized equipment to horse the fish into the boat."
--------------
Summer of '68, my first excursion to Baja was with several of the founders of Las Baracs. We drove down and set up camp near Los Frailes in a cove called Los Arbolitos or Solotito by the local family then. The people I was lucky enough to be with had been making the trip for years and were some of the best free divers I have ever dove with. We'd go out with a family fisherman in his wooden panga to the sea mounts and see a lot of 200lb plus grouper and would only spear the 50 and below fish for food and market for the family. They didn't want "huge" fish. Too tough. During the 6 week stay in the cove there were a lot of fly-in divers that took only huge, photo op, fish. During that short period they killed over 100 grouper/jew fish in the 200+# class. These were friendly fish and the only "skill" required to take them was to be able to hold your breath for a 30' to 40' dive and c-ck a high end arbolet (sp ?)/spear gun. These rich assassins didn't camp where we we, no runway, but we'd see them out diving and our fisherman would tell us about them. I think even back then there were "tube sucking bubble blowers". My point is, finally, a few well equipped divers can take a lot of ancient fish in a short time. Whether sports divers or commercial it doesn't take many years to decimate a population.
more from dean miller
"To spear a BSB required hours and hours of in water hunting with no or minimal thermal protection, specialized often home made dedicated spear guns with special rigging to control and subdue the fish and even more specialized equipment to horse the fish into the boat."
---- I don't know when or where you're talking about but here in Baja those giants are still easy pickings when you happen upon them.

[Edited on 9-18-2010 by Russ]

shari - 9-18-2010 at 07:29 AM

I just read this in the Sudcaliforniano online newspaper abouth Guerrero Negro's first fishing tournament...the winner got a 239 lb. Mero(black sea bass) on his wishing stick to win 15,000 pesos....when I saw the photo, I thought it was someone dressed in a Bass Suit...weird...didnt have my glasses on...that's a big sucker. Second place was a 7.2 lb calico for 10,000 pesos...they served Mano de Leon at the banquet after...yummy.

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n1784505.htm

rts551 - 9-20-2010 at 04:16 PM

141 kilos first place mero
39 kilos grouper
15 kilos yellow tail

black sea bass are in abundance in this area. they are not commercially fished. but I guess we should protect them from the tourists after this advertisement thread.

sancho - 9-20-2010 at 04:38 PM

Just heard the Radio show out of san Diego
yesterday, that an angler onboard the Excel Sportfishing
boat out San Diego 3 weeks ago fishing the
Cedros Isle area, reported the boat caught and kept 7 blacks up to 300#, when cleaned at least 1 contained roe

bajabass - 9-20-2010 at 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sancho
Just heard the Radio show out of san Diego
yesterday, that an angler onboard the Excel Sportfishing
boat out San Diego 3 weeks ago fishing the
Cedros Isle area, reported the boat caught and kept 7 blacks up to 300#, when cleaned at least 1 contained roe

Yup, the sporties still take them in Mexican waters. When you are fishing those reefs, you are going to get a few of them, almost every trip. I don't think they are targeting BSB, but a guy spending $800.00 to $3,000.00 for a longrange trip is going to keep them for sure. :?:

Excellent meat, and a memorable fight on light tuna/jurel tackle. The pictures of the wholesale slaughter of gigantic groupers will never be duplicated, :wow:

I hope! They have made a great comeback in both Florida and California through no take laws. :tumble:

dean miller - 9-21-2010 at 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy

I am repulsed by the many old photos I have seen with a
500#+ BSB hanging on a hook next to a gloating spearfisherman with his gun;

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ken,

Where are those pictures that repulsed you so?
Those 500#BSB??????

Every one on this board would like to see them

sdm

Ken Bondy - 9-21-2010 at 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dean miller

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy

I am repulsed by the many old photos I have seen with a
500#+ BSB hanging on a hook next to a gloating spearfisherman with his gun;

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ken,

Where are those pictures that repulsed you so?
Those 500#BSB??????

Every one on this board would like to see them

sdm

dean please help me understand what enraged you so much about my post. Do you doubt the existence of any old photos showing spearfishermen standing next to a large dead BSB hanging on a hook, or is it that you don't think any of them weighed 500#?

++Ken++

bajabass - 9-21-2010 at 08:31 AM

For a start, just look at many of the pictures in "The Sea Of Cortez", Ray Cannon's masterpiece, which is sitting on my coffee table in La Mision. The rape and plunder went on for years! Both fishermen and divers were responsible.

dean miller - 9-21-2010 at 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy

Quote:

Originally posted by dean miller

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy

I am repulsed by the many old photos I have seen with a
500#+ BSB hanging on a hook next to a gloating spearfisherman with his gun;

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ken,

Where are those pictures that repulsed you so?
Those 500#BSB??????

Every one on this board would like to see them

sdm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you are going to quote or preserve history do it correctly

THE World SPEAR FISHING RECORDS:

1953 Herb Sampson Costa Mesa 172-1/2 pounds
1954 Jack Prodanovich San Diego 310 pounds
1954 Wally Potts San Diego 401 1/2 pounds
1956 Ron Church La Jolla 464 1/2 pounds
1960 John ( Jack) Dudley Scotsmans cove,Orange county 480 pounds

Current and last and final record
Bob Stansberry-San Clemente Island 518 pounds.

So where is your pictures? of the spear fisherman with a 500#+ BSB ???

I would really like to see it and I an certain others would also like to see this 500 # + BSB...

sdm

toneart - 9-21-2010 at 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by whistler
Remember ,the only reason these villages exist is because of commercial fishing and that includes gill netting.

Is this really true? If so, it is all the more reason for conservation. All the more reason for limits...and to enforce conservation laws on the Seiners and Gill Netters. The laws are in place. It is stupid to overfish until the villages are dead.

toneart - 9-21-2010 at 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by whistler
Yes,it is true.The coperativa was officially founded in 1948.
Google " punta abreojos,la times". click on "swimming against the tide of overfishing".
They manage their fishery quite well if you ask me.

Whistler,

This string is talking about Black Sea Bass - Mero.

The L.A. Times article was written in 2002 and only addresses the Punta Abreojos Lobster Industry. I will take your word for it that the Punta Abreojos fishing cooperative are being good stewards for the Lobster Industry.

However, the rest of the article paints a bleak picture of the Mexican fishing industry overall. We have witnessed the depletion of Bahia Concepcion, in the Sea of Cortez. We have witnessed the Shrimp Boats, Seiners and Gill Netters doing the same to the Sea of Cortez around the Mulege area.

Are you saying that the Mero in Abreojos is plentiful enough to withstand a tournament that targets them? My only challenge to you is: How do you know? Do you live there? I will not refute a qualified answer. Your qualified opinion is valid and I will not pursue it further. It will be up to others to accept it, or not.

BajaBlanca - 9-21-2010 at 04:30 PM

Hi all - this is a can of worms and I still don't know if the mero should be protected here or if they are doing just fine .. seems like we are so close to California that what works there should be true here too ????? I don't fish at all, but I wd hate to see such a beauty of a fish be fished out ....

the coop here never fishes mero commercially. Perhaps they have no one to sell it to? They rigidly control lobster and abalone as to size and numbers caught. But mero does not enter into the question. Nor any yellowtail or other fish, as far as I know.

I will have someone interpret the email the president of the abreojos coop sent me - if I understood it correctly, he is saying that they are conducting studies now. But I really can't say if I got the real gist of what he was saying. My Spanish is really good, but this was slightly more entailed than I can deal with.

Let's see if we can voice our opinions kindly. No one has to agree with anyone (isn't that a relief !! :spingrin:

and

you get a lot farther in making your point when you do it with class. Especially if you STRONGLY disagree :fire:

Cypress - 9-21-2010 at 05:59 PM

The destruction of any fishery is a sad thing to witness. In places once teeming with fish there's nothing. I'm beginning to think it's a waste of time to point out the obvious. Gill nets, seines, even unlimited hook and line harvesting are taking their toll. Fishermen will wonder where the fish went.

BajaBlanca - 9-21-2010 at 06:05 PM

@whistler=will do. Juanchy is such a nice guy and joaquin has the the Cactus restaurant - do go there and have a seafood feast, if you havent already. Their dad is very nice too. As are the sisters. All in all, a great family. Domingo is doing fantastic as well. MSG GIVEN TO JOAQUIN WHO STOPPED BY THIS MORNING. HE SAYS HELLO BACK AT YA.

[Edited on 9-22-2010 by BajaBlanca]

Ken Bondy - 9-21-2010 at 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dean miller

Ken,

Where are those pictures that repulsed you so?
Those 500#BSB??????

Every one on this board would like to see them

sdm

dean I have no idea what you are talking about, and you don't seem to want to answer my question to help me understand. What do all these spearfishing records have to do with my post? They seem to be supporting my position, not yours. You keep harping on me to produce pictures of spearfishermen with 500#+ BSB as if none exist. You cite a 518# BSB shot by Stansberry. I assume someone took a picture of him standing next to his big dead fish (after all, it is the "current and last final record"

). I am not sure I saw one of those pictures, but if I did, I would have been repulsed by it. So can we leave it at that? ++Ken++

toneart - 9-21-2010 at 07:25 PM

Thank you for your replies, Whistler!

Skipjack Joe - 9-21-2010 at 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dean miller
Ken,

Where are those pictures that repulsed you so?
Those 500#BSB??????

Every one on this board would like to see them

sdm

I'm repulsed by them ... and I'm a fisherman.

The idea of measuring one's worth by the size of the fish one brings in is repulsive to me.

It has nothing to do with food.

You'll notice that none of our well known anglers pursue this sort of fishing. It's usually someone from the midwest who rarely fishes the salt and wants a trophy to bring home.

rts551 - 9-21-2010 at 07:58 PM

I live there. #1 They manage the fisheries they control. #2 All fish caught in the tournament were processed by the coop for food.

Too bad that people who don't live there or are dependent upon the region for their livelihood or life are so critical.

Skipjack Joe - 9-21-2010 at 08:49 PM

The people are dependent on Mero for their livelihood?

B.S.

Pescador - 9-22-2010 at 06:33 AM

The Pacific villages of Abreojos, La Bocana, and Asuncion were included in the Biosphere and developed Co-opertives as a result of that. This was one of the few Biospheres in the world that knew protection of local species was the target but that they had to consider the economic well being of the residents as well. Unlike some of the stupidity exhibited by the Department of Fisheries in California, they knew that if they were too restrictive, that people would go outside of the regulations and do whatever they had to do to make a living.

While the Coopertives may not directly control certain species, they have exhibited a pretty tight hand in controlling abuses and overharvest of the other species also, as if they seemed to understand at some level the balance of what goes on in the sea. I had a person I know who was over at La Bocana fishing for recreation, but part of what he did was to sell his fish when he returned to the other side. The people of La Bocana had welcomed him and even invited him to guide in the area since he was such a great guide and fisherman, but when he took extra Grouper so that he could sell fillets, he was told in no uncertain terms that would not be allowed or tolerated.

Whenever I was fishing there, it was clearly understood that a person could catch a Mero while there and people even helped with GPS numbers and the like but it was also clearly understood that more than one take would not be acceptable. So Blanca has hit on a really important issue here and one does not need to be a knee-jerk Tree Hugger to see the dilemna faced by the officials. Do they allow Mero to be taken for the tournament (which has won several tournaments in past years) or do they just say that is not an allowed species. I pretty much hate the whole tournament mentality anyway which is a weekend party of testosterone ridden bragging and mentality which really proves nothing but who gets lucky on top of a little skill anyway. So it would certainly be better for the fishery if they just limited it to Yellowtail anyway since they are migratory and not resident, they are much more able to handle the small increase in pressure, whereas the resident populations of Grouper fishes and Meros are less capable of dealing with the increase.

Thank goodness, this may be the last year of these Governor's Copa tournaments which were the brainchild of Agundez anyway. There have been lots of abuses, several tournaments were cancelled because the local village or town was not in political favor with Agundez, and wonder of all wonders, since money was involved there has been a lot of cheating and planting of fish from other areas.

[Edited on 9-22-2010 by Pescador]

rts551 - 9-22-2010 at 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
The people are dependent on Mero for their livelihood?

B.S.

I said the region Igor. You proposing to manage their region for them?

Or is it because you like to fish the region yourself? Maybe you should be restricted from Estero Coyote - A fish hatchery that you frequent.

[Edited on 9-22-2010 by rts551]

bajajurel - 9-22-2010 at 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca
Hi all, I have heard that Punta Abreojos is holding their fishing tournament this weekend and that MERO will be one of the fish included.

My request is 2fold:

1. I fyou are somehow related or know anyone in Punta Abreojos, please let them all know that this is not a good thing (assuming that you agree with me on this).

2. Can anyone send me a link or information on why this species is protected ? I wrote to the fishing coop and I wrote to the governor but I need more ammunition ie FACTS.

What I know: It takes 15 years for black sea bass to reach 150 lbs., the 300 lb. female has 6 million eggs, some of them reach the age of 200 years (that was my "ahaaaaaaaaaaaa" moment, I told them these fish were as old as Mexico's Independence so they should be saved as a memento.

Any help wd be very appreciated. :yes:

Hola Blanca,

We had a great stay at your place but left early as we were looking for yellowfin, wahoo, and yellowtail which did not show or were uncooperative.

First, there is not a lot known or understood about Giant Black Sea Bass other than it was disallowed in California because of the decline in population. Here is an attachment to Calif. DFG that explains a little about the species -

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/marine/status/giant_seabass.pdf

I have asked my friend who is a marine biologist at Scripps to find me some research information and I will post as soon as I get anything. From the article linked above "Estimated growth-rates are six years to reach 30 pounds, 10 years to reach 100 pounds, and 15 years to reach 150 pounds".

Attached are pictures from the tournament and the largest was weighed in at 154 kilos (around 340 pounds). Roughly extrapolating the fish was 30 years old or more.

I was in awe as I had never seen a Giant Black Sea Bass and felt it should have been measured and released as are other large fish in tournaments. I don't see a need to take such a trophy so maybe we can all collectively work towards catch and release program to encourage conservation.

BTW - Second place was the lady that was staying at your place.

When I get the reply from my friend at Scripps I will post it on this thread.

Thanks again for your hospitality and see you next month.
Jerry

[Edited on 9-22-2010 by bajajurel]

P1000598.JPG - 31kB

bajajurel - 9-22-2010 at 08:23 AM

Quote:

more pics

bajajurel - 9-22-2010 at 08:25 AM

more pics

P1000602.JPG - 22kB

shari - 9-22-2010 at 08:33 AM

Pescador makes some valid points but the cooperativas on the central pacific coast were formed WAAAAY before any biosphere reserve was established here. The coops have been responsibly managing their resources for 50 years.

Fisheries deals with quotas, regs and enforcement etc. and the coops are responsible for vigilancia(patrolling their area) not the biosphere reserve people.

The first Governor's Cup fishing tournament in Asuncion targeted Mero as well, yellowtail and calico but the black sea bass was eliminated in the following years because there just arent many of them around anymore...too scarce to make it a tournament fish so maybe that will happen in Abreojos too. I have heard similar sentiments about the governers cup tournaments...we'll see what the new governor comes up with!

snorklebob - 9-22-2010 at 08:37 AM

Hi All,
Just wanted to say that I was in the Ensenada fish market 2 weeks age and one of the stalls had several BSB for sale. All were small. Maybe 5 were under 10lbs with only one in the 20lb range. I had not been there in a couple of years but have seen them on occasion before.
So, they are sold commercially though they may have been bi-catch in a net, but I doubt it as they command a higher price than most fish in the market.

Skipjack Joe - 9-22-2010 at 09:13 AM

Good to hear that. The people of Ensenada would starve without them.

Most Meros, I suspect, end up on people's walls. Their heads mounted in saloons and coffee shops as conversation pieces.

BajaBlanca - 9-22-2010 at 09:47 AM

I guess we have an area where the BSB go to reproduce because there are so many huge ones way down, that is the part that concerns me and I wish to better understand the implications of catching the bigger ones. If, as some say, one day does not really make a dent, that wd be great. My fear is that these are wonderful fish that will be wiped out. I mean, Jerry's pictures sure make an impact.

Jerry - it is fantastic that you have a marine biologist who may be able to shed some light on this issue. I just want to know if I should defend this m monster fish or not :spingrin:

Do you really think the tournaments will end when this governor leaves ? I did not know that .... for the locals, it is a really big event and it is the only time I ever see the women and kids fishing, which is really neat. And yeah, one lady who was staying here did win the BSB category, altho I was not here to see that.

yellowklr - 9-22-2010 at 05:37 PM

FYI La Bocana and Abreojos do fish BSB commercially.............I just got back and saw it with my own eyes.............They pangeros tell me they get good $$$$$ for the fish.

BajaBlanca - 9-22-2010 at 07:32 PM

I confirmed this today, Derek !! who would have guessed .... good money is right. I asked where they sell it to and was told it goes to restaurants south of the border AND they can sell to the states but the size is not too small and not too big (don't remember the exact size allowance - smething like a range between 40 and 70 lbs.). they have fished it forever but it is not controlled by them, like the abalone and lobster are.

bajabass - 9-22-2010 at 08:13 PM

There it is! A managed, obviously thriving resource! Thanks yellowklr! Leave the babies, leave the breeders. Sounds like an enforced slot limit to me. :light:

Judging by the pictures posted, it works. :spingrin:

skipowell - 9-22-2010 at 08:29 PM

so does does that mean I can eat bsb without feeling guilty
or am I reading what I want to hear?

Skipjack Joe - 9-22-2010 at 10:50 PM

You're reading what you want to hear: the pictures are of breeders.

bajabass - 9-23-2010 at 05:51 AM

Those are breeders for sure! The very large and small fish should be released! Even as prolific as the calico and sand bass are, I only keep a few 3-5 lb fish. All others get released. Slot limits and size limits will work!

Pescador - 9-23-2010 at 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
Pescador makes some valid points but the cooperativas on the central pacific coast were formed WAAAAY before any biosphere reserve was established here. The coops have been responsibly managing their resources for 50 years.

Fisheries deals with quotas, regs and enforcement etc. and the coops are responsible for vigilancia(patrolling their area) not the biosphere reserve people.

The first Governor's Cup fishing tournament in Asuncion targeted Mero as well, yellowtail and calico but the black sea bass was eliminated in the following years because there just arent many of them around anymore...too scarce to make it a tournament fish so maybe that will happen in Abreojos too. I have heard similar sentiments about the governers cup tournaments...we'll see what the new governor comes up with!

As usual my mind works faster than my fingers. No, I did not mean to imply that they worked at the same time, I was just comparing the bio-sphere regulations to what California has done with the no-fishing zones, which are a complete disaster, but instead worked with the coopertives as well as the fisheries people in developing regulations that allowed for the continued harvest of fish and resources. So, what they developed is a more fluid like approach to the regulation and contorl, which means that issues like this are not completely cast in stone and may develop as things change.

The pictures of those big boys hanging there for the Tournament sure speaks volumes.

One of the real problems is that when those fish are hooked at deeper levels in the ocean, they are very difficult to successfully release. It takes a special rig with a very heavy weight and a non-barbed lip hook to get them back deep enough that their air-bladder will pressurize and go back to normal size. The Gulf of Mexico fishery has tried venting with a hypodermic needle but the mortality is terrible and most fish die. I now carry one of those release devices on the boat with me and it works very well, but it has taken me time to get the weights right and the release hook.

bajabass - 9-23-2010 at 08:36 AM

Pescador, how deep do they have to come from to need the deep release?

:?:

Skipjack Joe - 9-23-2010 at 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari

The first Governor's Cup fishing tournament in Asuncion targeted Mero as well, yellowtail and calico but the black sea bass was eliminated in the following years because there just arent many of them around anymore...too scarce to make it a tournament fish so ...

On my last trip to Asuncion the spearfishermen we met were real excited about a large Mero they saw at Isla San Roque. They knew where it was and where it would stay. They wanted to go back and plug him. Unfortunately for them, they didn't bring their wet suits and the water was too cold for long submersions. Otherwise there would have been a celebration.

The ability to spot and pursue your individual fish is why spearfishing is so much more damaging than hook and line. That, and that catch and release is not an option for them.

[Edited on 9-23-2010 by Skipjack Joe]

Pescador - 9-23-2010 at 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass
Pescador, how deep do they have to come from to need the deep release?

:?:

Anything over 60 feet and the bladder will be so swollen up that the fish will be unable to get back down on his own. All groupers and basses have this problem. Bill Erhardt and I had this discussion a year or so ago on Bajanomads and we both use a heavy lead weight with a non barbed hook in an upside down manner which allows you to get the fish down to the depth he was originally captured at and with a small shake the fish is free and not harmed. Venting with a needle has been studied but it is suspected that it leads to a higher rate of mortality.

Pescador - 9-23-2010 at 04:36 PM

Skipjack, maybe we could start a group that uses underwater paintballs. All the fun, but little or no damage to the fish.

Here is an interesting article about the cooperatives from one reporter's perspective.
http://www.miller-mccune.com/environment/the-success-of-vizc...

bajabass - 9-23-2010 at 04:40 PM

Thanks Pescador! I will be making several runs to La Paz over the next few months. I will try and catch you in San Bruno and take a look at that rig. I only need a few average fish to keep, and if I'm lucky enough to hook one, I want to let is go in the proper, safest manner! :biggrin:

Black Sea Bass

bobjones35 - 9-24-2010 at 07:27 AM

I had a similar experience over at Catalina Island last week. I freedive spear fish. I dove down to about 40 feet and there were three of them! Big ones too. People do seem to be respecting the law and leaving them alone. Bob

Quote:

Originally posted by islandhop
My buddy hands me my new underwater camera that I haven't used yet... We are anchored off San Clemente Isl. Ca. About two weeks ago.. I dive down to about 40 ' and there to greet me was a monster grouper (bsb) I'm in a hurry trying to take photos with a camera I dont really know how to use, While this big guy, maybe 150 lbs at least, circles me slowly about 8 ft away. I did manage to get 2 or 3 photos out of focus, with a line through the middle, otherwise awful photos. 10 or so minutes later I see 2 more bigger guys that swim by very close.. Point is that I have seen them my last 3 trips out there so I think that they are back in numbers.. They are not afraid of divers ..

Pescador - 9-24-2010 at 08:51 AM

This is a great topic and very near to my heart and interest. Most of the Black Sea Bass and Groupers that are hooked in water over 60 feet are not able to survive if released. They are unable to vent their air bladders which is what allows them to stay at various depths and they suffer from Barometric Trauma which means their tounge swells up and fills the mouth cavity, their eyes will bug out, and their stomachs and intestines will sometimes protrude from their anal opening. The method developed for the Florida and Gulf of Mexico fishery was to use a venting tool which is like a hypodermic needle that allows the gasses trapped in the air bladder to escape and when done properly by a well trained person the survival rates are medium at best. The Australians developed a system where they use a barbless hook attached to at least a 3 to 5 lb weight that attaches to the mouth just behind the lip plates but before any bony structure and the fish is lowered to a level where the pressure is sufficient to deflate the air bladder.

I prefer the weight method and can usually feel the fish starting to struggle as it is lowered to depth and it is shortly therafter that the fish swims off of his own accord.

Now comes the problem, I have spent a lot of time researching out the methods and developing a system that works. I seriously doubt that any of the pangueros have any inclination to release any of these fish at all, and would not have the knowledge or equipment even if they were so inclined.

So, Blanca raised a really good point that the Governor's Cup Tournament which is a government give away program as they give much more in prizes and awards than they take in for entry fees, and was designed by Agundez (the current governor) as a mini-stimulus package for the small towns in the Baja Peninsula. But it is pretty irresponsible for a tournament to encourage the taking of Mero which take so long to replace and grow back. Yellowtail, Tuna, and Wahoo are all migratory fish that spread themselves out over the ocean and are less dependent on one small geographical area for their survival are probably not effected to any large degree by a tournament, but residents like Grouper and Mero are potentially effected to a much more significant degree.

So, I could care less if they get taken with a rod and reel or a speargun, the end result is pretty much the same.

[Edited on 9-24-2010 by Pescador]

Cypress - 9-24-2010 at 02:14 PM

Pescador, Thanks for your input. :yes:

A fisherman speaks. Listen.

DianaT - 9-24-2010 at 02:30 PM

Have heard some complaints and musings about the local fishing tournaments---but will miss the one in BA if it goes away. While not all, most of the participants are locals or from the surrounding communities, and it is a really good time for many in the community as they enjoy the the big fish BBQ.

It is also a good time for all the kids who fish from shore. So maybe something will take its place if it goes away. For the last few years, it has become an important part of the annual fiesta.

BajaBlanca - 9-24-2010 at 02:43 PM

I agree. It wd be a real shame if they went away....but maybe the coops will continue them, I think they enjoyed the whole deal too !!

msteve1014 - 9-24-2010 at 03:56 PM

I see no reason for the local tournaments to go away, everyone enjoys them, but the big prize money will if the government stops sponsoring them.