BajaNomad - ATF Seizes More Than 1K Guns, 71K Ammunition Rounds on Border

ATF Seizes More Than 1K Guns, 71K Ammunition Rounds on Border

JESSE - 9-17-2010 at 11:24 PM

PHOENIX - On Friday, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives showed off the results of a very successful operation in Arizona.

Between May 1 and August 6, 2010, the ATF seized 1,300 guns and 71,000 rounds of ammunition.

http://bit.ly/9jHIXn

JESSE - 9-17-2010 at 11:26 PM

surfer jim - 9-18-2010 at 06:51 AM

....and the worse news is how many got through ?

Can anybody identify what is in the photo?

wessongroup - 9-18-2010 at 07:15 AM

See a nice 50 cal sniper rifle ..... sitting there.... now thats a handy tool to be carrying around.... along with what appears to be some 47's

That is a pretty good haul... plus the the extra rounds..

Now WHO could be wanting that much .... going north????

Thats better, I guess ... thanks for the correction "going south" .. its early .. having my first cup of coffee.. and my meds are just starting to kick in...

[Edited on 9-18-2010 by wessongroup]

msawin - 9-18-2010 at 07:21 AM

The guns where heading south, as per article link.

marty

k-rico - 9-18-2010 at 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by surfer jim
....and the worse news is how many got through ?

Exactly. There are 6,700 gun stores in the US within 100 miles of the Mexican border. One US official described the gun runners heading south as an "army of ants".

And who knows how many gun shows there are every month in the border area. No license needed to sell guns and no background check required to buy guns at gun shows.

Santiago - 9-18-2010 at 08:10 AM

Waiting for MrBillM........tick, tick, tick......

DENNIS - 9-18-2010 at 08:15 AM

Jeeeezo....The Cuban Revolution was fought and won with less weaponry. Good haul.

DianaT - 9-18-2010 at 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by surfer jim
....and the worse news is how many got through ?

Agree, but at least these did not make it south---hopefully more and more will be stopped.

Bajajorge - 9-18-2010 at 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico

Quote:

Originally posted by surfer jim
....and the worse news is how many got through ?

Are you pro gun control? Ban guns and there will still be millions out there. Just like illegal drugs, they're banned and there is still tons readily available just about anywhere.

k-rico - 9-18-2010 at 09:07 AM

"Just like illegal drugs."

yup

durrelllrobert - 9-18-2010 at 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by surfer jim
....and the worse news is how many got through ?

...and how many guns has the US government provided to the Mexican military that then ended up in the hands of the cartels when the soldiers deserted and joined the bad guys :?:

Ees no my job

Dave - 9-18-2010 at 11:15 AM

Absent from this discussion is appreciation for the U.S. in doing the job for which Mexico is either unwilling or incapable.

I'm sure it was just an oversight. :rolleyes:

Paladin - 9-18-2010 at 11:26 AM

Im going to a gun show right after I finish this.

No background checks at guns shows????

Sounds like someone is a politician and a little lose with the truth.

I sure hope no one believes that rubi :fire:

Hormigas

Dave - 9-18-2010 at 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
Exactly. There are 6,700 gun stores in the US within 100 miles of the Mexican border. One US official described the gun runners heading south as an "army of ants".

These ants aren't named Joe or Bill...instead, José and Memo.

Just a wild guess.

Cypress - 9-18-2010 at 11:52 AM

The anti gun crew will be all over this. If someone is determined to commit mayhem they don't need guns. Machetes will work just fine. Ask some of the armless folks over in Africa. :no:

Pompano - 9-18-2010 at 12:14 PM

That's probably a Barret .50...Browning and Beretta also make them. Accurate to........far enough. The rest are 14's, grenade launchers, 47's, a Mannlicher..... and a Kentucky long rifle?

Legitimate gun ownership and/or use.... v.s ...terrorists, crooks, murderers, and druggers? Why argue a point that is pointless?

DavidE - 9-18-2010 at 12:37 PM

Some gun sellers need a moment in Club Fed to muse the errors of their ways.

Also a new federal law "Get caught exiting the USA without a firearm export permit, go to federal prison for a term of 50 years no probation".

Same for exporting automatic weapons except for "Life Without The Possibility of Parole".

We also need to build a prison holding 15,000 inmates in the wilds of Arizona, and then import the very worst from Mexican cartels. Mexico can send beans and tortillas. Do as the Mexicans do, arrest a sicario, find out which faction he is allied with and then threaten to send him to a cellblock housing sicarios from OTHER grupos unless he spills his guts right then and there.

Lee Smiley, a friend with a ranch south of marathon texas told me that the USA is positioning snipers on the USA side of the Rio Grande before CBP conducts a sweep or operation. Lee said that pot shots are happening less frequently now.

Dave - 9-18-2010 at 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
Some gun sellers need a moment in Club Fed to muse the errors of their ways.

Also a new federal law "Get caught exiting the USA without a firearm export permit, go to federal prison for a term of 50 years no probation".

Same for exporting automatic weapons except for "Life Without The Possibility of Parole".

Gee, it's like these guys actually did the killing. :rolleyes:

And BTW, what are the typical penalties for murder in Mexico? 50 years...life without parole?

If the President of Mexico can blame U.S. users as reason for the cartels importing drugs the least I can do is reciprocate with respect to guns going south.

Just doing my part.

Loretana - 9-18-2010 at 02:33 PM

"And BTW, what are the typical penalties for murder in Mexico? 50 years...life without parole? "

The maximum sentence in Mexico for murder is 30 years. But generally, the Mexican courts hand out 20 years. And the murderer usually gets out after doing 2/3rds of their sentence. (My dear friend Dr. Luis Mendoza Canseco, the retired Coroner of the state of Oaxaca, did an extensive study on sentencing and crime in Mexico.)

And if that many weapons were seized before the Cartels got them, good.

k-rico - 9-18-2010 at 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paladin
Im going to a gun show right after I finish this.

No background checks at guns shows????

Sounds like someone is a politician and a little lose with the truth.

I sure hope no one believes that rubi :fire:

Here you go.

See youtube.com and search for "gun shows" to see more videos like this. The problem is called the "gun show loophole."

[Edited on 9-18-2010 by k-rico]

You Miss the Point

Bajahowodd - 9-18-2010 at 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
Absent from this discussion is appreciation for the U.S. in doing the job for which Mexico is either unwilling or incapable.

I'm sure it was just an oversight. :rolleyes:

This crap was confiscated in Arizona. Sure, it speaks well of our guys. But, that's exactly what they should be doing. Your post seems to imply that the Mexicans should be in Arizona doing the work.

As for all those posting about gun control, the NRA has done a fine job in getting its absolutists message out there. Gun control is wide and deep. In a modern society there must be certain sensible restrictions. That in no way equals banning gun ownership. It just means that a drunk carrying an AK while shopping at Costco, is not such a good idea.

JESSE - 9-18-2010 at 04:13 PM

This is not about blaming anyone, i am not against citizens of the U.S. exercising their rights to bear arms. But .50 cal Barrets? Ak-47s? no ID? no backround checks?

Just sounds ridiculous to me, and just as ridiculous, are those that want to create confusion as to the suppliers of weapons for the drug cartels. Claiming the guns come from central america, asia, or where ever. The videos posted show how easy (and cheap) it is to buy high powered weapons of war in the US.

I think any responsible and sensible person, shouldn't be concerned at all if the goverment creates laws simply controlling gun sales, so that joe x or juan x can't go into one of these shows and buy guns for a private little war.

k-rico - 9-18-2010 at 04:28 PM

Yes, and the other problem is the straw man sales where citizens with clean records are paid to buy guns for criminals and smugglers. The current gun control laws are ineffective.

The ATF - A federal police agency set-up to control alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. Which of the three have the least controls?

[Edited on 9-18-2010 by k-rico]

Dave - 9-18-2010 at 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
This crap was confiscated in Arizona. Sure, it speaks well of our guys. But, that's exactly what they should be doing. Your post seems to imply that the Mexicans should be in Arizona doing the work.

The Mexicans should be doing their work at their border.

Had the U.S. authorities not intercepted these shipments I'm confident they would have found their way to the intended destination.

Here's a thought:

Since Mexico seems incapable of policing its borders why don't they simply buy up all these weapons? They could melt them down and make comals.

JESSE - 9-18-2010 at 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

What makes you think Mexicans can stop guns, if the U.S. with far more resources, can't stop drugs?

DavidE - 9-18-2010 at 05:38 PM

Mexico isn't the USA, there the first amendment has no meaning, no significance, and I am not concerned with the corrupt politicos and cops. It's the poor people that don't deserve the misery that it bought and paid for and then shipped to Mexico. People who pay money for drugs knowing that the money is going to Mexico are precisely and exactly as -------- as religous zealots who send money to the Taliban. There is, no, difference. None. Zero.

Legal marijuana sixty bucks and ounce, narco marijuana thirty bucks an ounce, now which would you suppose pot users in the USA are going to choose?

The USA as a while is pimping the drug cartels (Oh yes of course our financial institutions have safeguards that would pro-hibit drug dollars from being rat-holed in the USA).

But keep those dollars flowing...

On both sides...

Dave - 9-18-2010 at 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
What makes you think Mexicans can stop guns, if the U.S. with far more resources, can't stop drugs?

The operative word is "won't". Neither country has the political will.

But let's be clear:

With regard for illegal drugs, the U.S. is 100% responsible for preventing their importation and Mexico is equally responsible for illegal weapons.

Loretana - 9-18-2010 at 07:16 PM

"Legal marijuana sixty bucks and ounce, narco marijuana thirty bucks an ounce, now which would you suppose pot users in the USA are going to choose?"

In which alternate universe is legal marijuana sixty bucks an ounce?

Or better yet, narco (crap) marijuana thirty bucks an ounce?

I live in the state that produces more and better marijuana than anywhere, and it still costs $10.00 dollars a gram. Period. And everybody is growing it now. ??

drarroyo - 9-18-2010 at 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidE
Legal marijuana sixty bucks and ounce, narco marijuana thirty bucks an ounce, now which would you suppose pot users in the USA are going to choose?

you stomped any credibility with such a delusional statement.
it costs to produce da kind. even for the cartels.
next

JoeJustJoe - 9-19-2010 at 10:51 AM

Well I guess this puts to rest the NRA and gun nut counter claim that the US state department and ATF is wrong or simply lying when they say about 90 percent of guns originate in the US.

They claim that eTrace the only real method out there to trace guns only can trace a fraction of the guns using the serial number and so therefore it means the weapons must be coming from other countries like China, North Korea, countries in South America and other places. ( no it doesn't they haven't proved mass quantity of weapons are coming from those other countries)

The USA is so close, and it's so easy to buy guns and drive them down to Mexico.

The question becomes, "Why buy weapon from anywhere else then the US?"

Of course weapons also come from the Mexican military and a few other places that you can't buy in the US, but the vast majority of victims are killed by bullets coming from assault weapons the same or similar to what you could buy in the US.

JESSE - 9-19-2010 at 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Of course weapons also come from the Mexican military

This is another one of those misinformation "facts" planted by those that won't accept responsability. The Mexican military basically carries one type of gun, the HK G3, not your average gun, not your average ammunition, it is long, heavy, expensive, and difficult to get ammunition. I have yet to see a single drug shooting where the bad guys used a G3. Some claim the cartels buy some of the guns from the military, what guns? the military doesn't carry Ak's, R-15's, or any of the tipical guns that cartels use. The Mexican military might lack many things, but they have very strict controls over their weapons. This is something aknowledged in most serious military circles.

Bajahowodd - 9-19-2010 at 02:04 PM

Plus, where is there any evidence of major desertion issues? Seems to me that being in the military would be considered to be a prestige job.

Skeet/Loreto - 9-19-2010 at 02:49 PM

iN TODAYS Amarillo Globe Newspaper it was reported that there has been a 61,7 % increase in Concealed Weapon Permits in the State of Texas since Last Year.

What does that say to you??

As long as there are Drugs coming into the States there will be Guns going into Mexico. It cannot be stopped unless the DOPERS stop using DOPE.

In Texas the increase in Concealed Permits are for a different reason. We seriousley beleive that one of these days there could be some "Shootin' and we want to be prepared.

Skeet

k-rico - 9-19-2010 at 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
We seriousley beleive that one of these days there could be some "Shootin' and we want to be prepared.

Skeet

Whatcha believe the shootin' is gonna be about?

Skeet/Loreto - 9-19-2010 at 03:45 PM

k=rico;

If you will go into Baja or the Mainland and find out some of the Cultural differences about "Cops getting Money form Speeder", come back and report your findinds, I will anser your question.

But to start an answer the Shootin will not be with the Mexicans but very well be with some of our own Folks who have been mislead by the Middle East Factions.

DENNIS - 9-19-2010 at 03:49 PM

Seems the youngsters of today want to get effd up.

When you've lost your kids....you've lost your future.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/09/latest-drug-tr...

DENNIS - 9-19-2010 at 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
k=rico;

If you will go into Baja or the Mainland and find out some of the Cultural differences about "Cops getting Money form Speeder", come back and report your findinds, I will anser your question.

But to start an answer the Shootin will not be with the Mexicans but very well be with some of our own Folks who have been mislead by the Middle East Factions.

Why don't you lay back down in your casket. Don't you know this is daytime? You're only supposed to show yourself at night, or early morning.

Skeet/Loreto - 9-19-2010 at 03:59 PM

dennis: Very good report. It is not only the DOPE coming across the Border it is the DOPE being despenxed by the Doctoer of this Country!!

What in the Hell can we do to stop it???

Are there two generations of People who have been taught to use Drugs by their Parents?

How Sad.

Bajahowodd - 9-19-2010 at 04:01 PM

Really now, what is more heartwarming than a cuddly puppy? A 61.7% increase in concealed weapons permits. Fact is that although I suppose open carry is better than concealed, I just can't grasp why so many folks feel threatened and by what. The wild, wild West is long gone. And even then, didn't the sheriff make the gunslingers check their weapons when they entered town?

DENNIS - 9-19-2010 at 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
And even then, didn't the sheriff make the gunslingers check their weapons when they entered town?

Only if his balls were bigger that the transient.

And..you know that.

vgabndo - 9-19-2010 at 11:55 PM

In the picture of the confiscated weapons, I was intrigued by the four little numbers just below the sniper rifle on the bipod. I did some internet searching and found that they are streaming into America from Romania in particular. With the "furniture" that is on them they would be among the least expensive of the highest quality assult rifles. With the wooden pistol grip and forepiece they are very compact, yet the round fired is comparable to NATO. It has car-stopping power. This isn't your regular NRA varmint rifle, this baby is for hunting bear.

One of the last official acts of "The Hammer", Rep. Tom Delay of Texas, jist before he was run out of Washington on ethics charges, was to lead the Republican controlled Congress to allow the Automatic Weapons Ban to lapse.

It is still illegal to import soviet bloc automatic weapons into the USA, but the fact that it is legal to sell them in this country insures that there is plenty of supply.

Pick one up cheap, go to this website to customize to your specifications, and next time you are in a serious argument, no matter WHAT you say, you'll be right.

http://www.rusmilitary.com/html/c-deact_furniture.htm

AK.jpg - 3kB

Skeet/Loreto - 9-20-2010 at 07:02 AM

Dennis: Not ready for that Casket yet.
On Saturday spent a tiring Day for an 80 yr. old. Up at 6 Am Fed the Horses, down to the Lodge for Breakfast, then to Downtown and to do my Offical Duties as the Pooper Scooper for the Kiva Shrine MuleSkinners{Picked up a good size Bucket of DOPER BRAINS}. Parade lasted two Hours, then Home for a little rest then off to a Friends for Dinner in my Casket at 9 Pm..

Bet you couldn.t stay with me a single Day!!

Skeet/Loreto - 9-20-2010 at 07:07 AM

Back to Guns:

DOPE has caused much of the increase in People obtaining and using the Concealed Carry Permit.
He in the Panhandle we have some of the same problems with DOPERS getting Guns and Knives and attacking people even in the Mall Parking Lots, Bars, and on the streets.

It will take several Killings of theses DOPERS to get their attention and make them more cautious we all Hope.

As far as Guns going to Mexico, that will not stop as long as there is a Market.

Skeet

DENNIS - 9-20-2010 at 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto

Bet you couldn.t stay with me a single Day!!

Bet you're right, Skeet.