BajaNomad - IRS and Bancomer

IRS and Bancomer

Donjulio - 9-21-2010 at 02:14 PM

This might help someone prevent a problem.

One of my friends here in San Felipe still is cleaning up a tax lien in the US. He deposited $3500 in Bancomer and the IRS seized it.

When he checked into it a little more, what he found was that if someone wire transfers into your account it isn't reported because it is considered already in the bank.

However if it is a cash deposit then it is reported. NOTE: They did not touch his peso account. Only the dollar.

slimshady - 9-21-2010 at 02:16 PM

How did they know he had a Bancomer Account? Do they have branches in the USA? Does he have Bancomer account in the USA?

Donjulio - 9-21-2010 at 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slimshady
How did they know he had a Bancomer Account? Do they have branches in the USA? Does he have Bancomer account in the USA?

Apparently Bancomer reports cash deposits to the US. Probably has something to do with all the money laundering crap that just got uncovered.

shari - 9-21-2010 at 02:43 PM

what if you are not american...say british, australian, canadian???

Ohh Puhleeze!

Gypsy Jan - 9-21-2010 at 03:02 PM

Do any of you remember the Citibank take down regarding money laundering of drug proceeds?

If you have a U.S. bank account, related to anything offshore, guess what, the computers flag your account.

It doesn't matter how small the amount is, it is the movement that puts you under scrutiny.

Bob and Susan - 9-21-2010 at 03:30 PM

he MUST have a USA Bancomer account

they are TWO different companies

Donjulio - 9-21-2010 at 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
he MUST have a USA Bancomer account

they are TWO different companies

No, he does not. Only an account in Mexico.

toneart - 9-21-2010 at 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
Do any of you remember the Citibank take down regarding money laundering of drug proceeds?

If you have a U.S. bank account, related to anything offshore, guess what, the computers flag your account.

It doesn't matter how small the amount is, it is the movement that puts you under scrutiny.

Jan,

He is talking about a Mexican bank account in U.S. Dollars. Furthermore, he made the deposit in cash.

Bob and Susan - 9-21-2010 at 04:05 PM

so you are saying...

the IRS in the USA

reached into another country (mexico)

and took money out of a mexican bank account

...better check out all the facts again

sanquintinsince73 - 9-21-2010 at 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
so you are saying...

the IRS in the USA

reached into another country (mexico)

and took money out of a mexican bank account

...better check out all the facts again

If it were that easy we would have frozen/taken Osama's money by now.....don't you think?

Donjulio - 9-21-2010 at 04:25 PM

Well the facts are pretty simple. They are above. I posted so it might help someone avoid problems. He went to Bancomer here in San Felipe where he lives and has lived and had an account for over 5 years, deposited the money into his dollar Bancomer account and the US IRS seized the money. How much more simple can it be.

The bank manager told him if had been wired in by him or anyone else that it would not have been reported because it was already accounted for in a bank to bank situation.

Woooosh - 9-21-2010 at 11:12 PM

So... he could not wire the money from a USA bank to Mexico because the IRS would have seized it from the USA bank before he had that chance. Instead he deposited cash dollars (below the widely accepted reporting threshold amount of $10,000) to a Mexico bank that also has a partner bank in the USA. So the question here really is: Do Mexico and the USA share all banking information on everyone- or just single out US Citizens with IRS liens that are known to be residing in Mexico? Do they have access to all Mexican bank information- or just banks who do business on both sides of the border? Does the same apply to Mexican nationals who owe money to the IRS?

Well, my guess would be they do it on everyone, every time, every where, be it dollars or pesos, be it cash or wired- just because they can and Mexico cooperates with them. I know my government's history well enough not to dismiss this as tin-foil hat conspiracy theory. A US citizen has US tax obligations on income earned in Mexico so why wouldn't they track it if they could? He owed the money (and who knows how much more) and deposited cash in a foreign bank allegedly to get around paying it. I love my USofA, but I'm not surprised or shocked. Disappointed- yes.

Donjulio - 9-21-2010 at 11:35 PM

Quote:

He owed the money (and who knows how much more) and deposited cash in a foreign bank allegedly to get around paying it. I love my USofA, but I'm not surprised or shocked. Disappointed- yes.

Actually it was deposited in the bank here because he has been working and living here 10 years.

jak - 9-22-2010 at 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by slimshady
How did they know he had a Bancomer Account? Do they have branches in the USA? Does he have Bancomer account in the USA?

When a US citizen opens a Bancomer account they ask for your SS#......figure it from there.

Woooosh - 9-22-2010 at 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio

He owed the money (and who knows how much more) and deposited cash in a foreign bank allegedly to get around paying it. I love my USofA, but I'm not surprised or shocked. Disappointed- yes.

Actually it was deposited in the bank here because he has been working and living here 10 years.

He owes US federal income tax on his Mexico income too then. I hope he picks a state to file in that has no tax (NV, TX, TN, etc).

Bob and Susan - 9-22-2010 at 11:25 AM

no ssn# needed when you open a bancomer account in mexico

how did the IRS find the account?

answer: its an american account and your friend doesnt remember

Donjulio - 9-22-2010 at 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
no ssn# needed when you open a bancomer account in mexico

how did the IRS find the account?

answer: its an american account and your friend doesnt remember

What a really dumb thing to say.

slimshady - 9-22-2010 at 09:48 PM

I have an HSBC account. No ss needed. Something is not right. Must be a account opened in USA.

Bob and Susan - 9-23-2010 at 04:46 AM

don

you are posting this as a fact
and its hear-say

"One of my friends here in San Felipe..."

just because you heard it doesn't mean it's completely true
there MUST be more facts that occured for this to happen

The Gull - 9-23-2010 at 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio
One of my friends here in San Felipe still is cleaning up a tax lien in the US. He deposited $3500 in Bancomer and the IRS seized it.

Hopefully, the $3500 will help clean up part or all of the lien. I say bravo to the IRS.

Donjulio - 9-23-2010 at 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
don

you are posting this as a fact
and its hear-say

"One of my friends here in San Felipe..."

just because you heard it doesn't mean it's completely true
there MUST be more facts that occured for this to happen

When the person it happened to is sitting in a chair across the table from you explaining the events it isn't hearsay. I really don't care whether you believe it or not. If I was going to get on here and make up stories I could come up with something a lot more entertaining than something about the IRS and the bank.

And WHY does there have to be more to the story? Its pretty straightforward and simple and was posted in order to possibly help someone keep from ending up with a major problem.

Woooosh - 9-23-2010 at 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donjulio

Quote:

Next time just pass him the keyboard and have him first type he is a guest of your BN log on. I've never seen that done, but I wouldn't give someone grief if they did it that way to avoid a second-hand accusation. I'm a smart guy, and my tax guy is a friggin' Mensa, but there is no rhyme or reason as to who the IRS will take down and how hard they come down when they do. Times I thought for sure I owed- and the IRS says I didn't, and the other way around too.

He could become a true ex-pat and denounce his citizenship in the USA as some tax scoundrels are doing- but not if he ever wants to collect Social Security or use Medicare. If he isn't paying taxes on his Mexico income, they will pile-on additional charges like willful tax evasion- so things are not going to get any better for him if the IRS has him in their sights. If he thinks he can waltz back across the border without setting off alarms- he is mistaken there too at this point. They are going to extraordinary measures for some reason- and everyone here is just glad it isn't us.

Donjulio - 9-23-2010 at 08:59 AM

As I mentioned, he lives and works in Mexico and had for several years went back and forth. He still takes care of his mom in the US and so maintains two residences. He did file taxes in the US and Mexico and has taken care of his responsibilities up until the time when the economy took a dump and put him in a bad financial position as it did to many others. So he got to a point where he could not make his payments, hence the lien. He is not or has not tried to avoid them or do anything illegal. Owing the IRS money is not illegal. Tax evasion is illegal. Many people are in a position where they can't make payments on homes, credit cards, cars etc. right now. So trying to make him out to be a bad guy is not the thing to do either.

IRS throwing bombs to US citizen real estate investors abroad

aldosalato - 9-23-2010 at 09:39 AM

It was mentioned on the Gringo Gazette this week. A property that is lived in by beneficiary of Fideicomiso or relative MUST be taxed at fair rental value as distribution of the Trust.

FATCA: Uncompensated Use of Foreign Trust Property
June 25, 2010 by admin
Filed under: FATCA

The uncompensated use of foreign trust property by a U.S. Grantor, a U.S. Beneficiary, or a U.S. Person related to either of them is treated as a distribution by the trust for non-grantor trust income tax purposes (which also includes the loan of cash or marketable securities by a foreign trust or the use of any other property of the trust).

The distribution treatment of foreign trust transaction has been expanded to include the uncompensated use of property by certain U.S. Persons. The treatment of foreign trusts as having U.S. beneficiaries for grantor trust purposes has been expanded to include loans of cash or marketable securities or the use of any other trust property to or by a U.S. Person.

If a foreign trust permits the use of any trust property by a U.S. Grantor, a U.S. Beneficiary, or any U.S. Person related to either of them, the fair market value of the use of such property is treated as a distribution by the trust to the Grantor or Beneficiary (IRC §643(i)(1), as amended by the 2010 HIRE Act).

This treatment does not apply to the extent that the trust is paid the fair market value of such use within a reasonable time (IRC §643(i)(2)(E), as added the 2010 HIRE Act). If distribution treatment does apply to the use of trust property, the subsequent return of such property is disregarded for federal tax purposes (IRC §643(i)(3), as amended by the 2010 HIRE Act).

http://www.procopio.com/userfiles/file/assets/files1/what-ha...

More on FATCA

http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=1c544371-b3c7-...
http://www.journalofaccountancy.com/Issues/2010/Aug/20102736...
http://www.aca.ch/joomla/images/pdfs/treasury.pdf

[Edited on 9-23-2010 by aldosalato]

Woooosh - 9-23-2010 at 10:21 AM

Take good care of your friend. Make sure the stress doesn't get to him or that he becomes depressed. Going through this and having to care for an aging relative can wear anyone down faster then they know. You're a good friend.

Thank you Aldo!

longlegsinlapaz - 9-23-2010 at 12:04 PM

OMG!!! From what I got out of the information in these URL's, Uncle Sam has gone off the deep end to wring every last ounce of blood & pennies out of those of us who have chosen to retire abroad on limited retirement/Social Security income! :fire:

It's more very important legalese mumble-jumble for us to try to make heads or tail out of! Why the #*%+& can't they write this stuff in layman's terms? Even the tax specialists are challenging the vague terminology & poorly/undefined requirements! All part of a successful plan to intimidate & confuse the hell out of us! :no:

My head hurts!!

Sincere thanks to you for posting this Aldo!!

oldjack - 9-23-2010 at 12:32 PM

So..... how many IRS agents/employees read this forum??? it seems the more we learn the less we like what transpires... I wish I had money to hide/protect.... but then maybe "they" are taking names and posts......

Woooosh - 9-23-2010 at 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oldjack
So..... how many IRS agents/employees read this forum??? it seems the more we learn the less we like what transpires... I wish I had money to hide/protect.... but then maybe "they" are taking names and posts......

Of course you jest. The USA gov't stores every single e-mail, text message and post. They have a special software program that scans everything you do on-line for "homeland security" information. If you want privacy- it doesn't exist in cyberspace... your footprints are everywhere. I'd like to think they only watch the bad guys- but history tells me otherwise. If you say or do do nothing wrong- don't even worry about it.

longlegsinlapaz - 9-23-2010 at 01:43 PM

Quote:

I personally wish the IRS DID read this forum, I think it would give them a more accurate insight into the reality of the bulk of retirees in Mexico....which would be a LOT more accurate than the stab in the dark efforts they're making 95-98% wrong assumptions about! Until they can find a way to isolate the true big buck tax evaders, their efforts will cost more than they'll net in "found money" from the group they're currently targeting. And IMO, it's going to cost us more to prove that point to the IRS!

I do feel they should be looking for offshore tax evaders....but I believe even more strongly that they haven't come close to their target yet! Personally, I believe the reverse is true....they're going to create a whole new senior generation of low-income tax evaders!

Woooosh - 9-23-2010 at 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz

Quote:

You are right legs, but of course the gov't already knows full well who the deep-pocketed politically-connected tax evaders are- both private and corporate. They just follow the path of least resistance even if the return on their time and effort is small.

BajaBruno - 9-23-2010 at 02:31 PM

This information from the IRS Manual may clear up some questions about how simply the IRS can seize foreign funds.

Section 10. International Seizures and Forfeitures
9.7.10.2.1 (05-22-2006)
Bilateral Treaties

1. A Bilateral Treaty is an agreement between two countries that specifies the mutual forfeiture assistance that the countries will provide to each other. The terms of the agreement are included in a document known as a Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty (MLAT). The United States has ratified MLATs with many jurisdictions. A current list of MLAT countries can be located on the CI Web, International Section.

2. Bilateral Treaties, in simple terms, are laws that require cooperation between two countries. All of the existing treaties contain provisions for providing records and for "freezing" and/or seizing assets. They have also helped to regularize the international forfeiture cooperation between treaty partners.

[from the International Section list]:

Master List—TAX TREATIES, MLATs, SCIPs, TIEAs, HAGUE EVIDENCE CONVENTION

Mexico ---- signatory to all

durrelllrobert - 9-23-2010 at 03:56 PM

Quote:

[..... Uncle Sam has gone off the deep end to wring every last ounce of blood & pennies out of those of us who have chosen to retire abroad on limited retirement/Social Security income! :fire:

The Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment (HIRE) Act, signed by Obama on March 18, 2010 is supposed to provide incentives to small businesses to hire more people. :?:

knuckles - 9-23-2010 at 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
OMG!!! From what I got out of the information in these URL's, Uncle Sam has gone off the deep end to wring every last ounce of blood & pennies out of those of us who have chosen to retire abroad on limited retirement/Social Security income! :fire:

My head hurts!!

#$%^&*! ya think? This only scratches the surface. Be afraid, very afraid and find a good hiding place for your cash. Makes me mad just thinking about it !... :mad:

[Edited on 9-24-2010 by knuckles]

IRS lien and Bancomer

C-Urchin - 9-23-2010 at 08:29 PM

Quote:

He should go to "Fast Eddy" !!! :lol:

He owes US federal income tax on his Mexico income too then. I hope he picks a state to file in that has no tax (NV, TX, TN, etc).

sanquintinsince73 - 9-23-2010 at 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

I'd better stop thinking bad about the government or those jack-booted thugs are going to follow me to San Quintin. :lol:

BajaRat - 9-23-2010 at 10:32 PM

Render unto Caesar what is Caesars. If you owe it pay it. Set up payments, move on life only gets shorter. P.S. Thanks for the post, I believe your intentions were good.

Even the smallest Quail would peck your eyes out if he could.

karenintx - 9-25-2010 at 11:37 AM

I can't remember if we had to give our ss# when we opened our checking accounts (dollars & pesos) but I do remember we had to provide not only our FM-3 but we also had to provide our US passport. Why I don't know.

Wouldn't it be easy for the IRS to follow the paper trail thru the passport?

Also with the "fidi" we provided our USA passport...can't remember if the bank or the attorney asked for our ss#. Must be my "CRS" disease!

.