BajaNomad - Realtor in Los Barriles

Realtor in Los Barriles

bajacalifornian - 9-30-2010 at 02:22 PM

Any strong recommendations for a Realtor in Los Barriles?

niknas - 9-30-2010 at 02:47 PM

Carlene Lokey

http://www.homesandlandofbaja.com/About_Us/page_2051448.html

We used Carlene last Winter to purchase a home. Very happy with her as our agent.

Cheers,
Nik

[Edited on 9-30-2010 by niknas]

drarroyo - 9-30-2010 at 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by niknas
Carlene Lokey

http://www.homesandlandofbaja.com/About_Us/page_2051448.html

We used Carlene last Winter to purchase a home. Very happy with her as our agent.

Cheers,
Nik

[Edited on 9-30-2010 by niknas]

It's great you've had a positive experience.
I had exactly the opposite!!! altho in all fairness the majority of 'blame' rests with her 'worst half'.

I would highly recommend the BajaProperties folks... Rick / ALdo / Alberto.
suerte

Bajahowodd - 9-30-2010 at 04:20 PM

Trying to be diplomatic here, but those two look to be ******bags that should be avoided at all costs. Anyone who is seriously interested in real estate in Baja should try to avoid gringo ex-pats ( I will admit that this is not a total blanket statement, but a very enlightened generalization. There are some reliable ex-pat realtors, but they are few and far between. Bottom line is that unless one has no concerns about paying vastly inflated prices, they should really plan to spend significant time in the community of their choice, and talk with the locals.

BFS - 9-30-2010 at 04:42 PM

I had a very good experience with Pam Grey at pam@homesandlandofbaja.com and can highly recommend her.

drarroyo - 9-30-2010 at 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Trying to be diplomatic here, but those two look to be windbags that should be avoided at all costs. Anyone who is seriously interested in real estate in Baja should try to avoid gringo ex-pats ( I will admit that this is not a total blanket statement, but a very enlightened generalization. There are some reliable ex-pat realtors, but they are few and far between. Bottom line is that unless one has no concerns about paying vastly inflated prices, they should really plan to spend significant time in the community of their choice, and talk with the locals.

enlightened response! salut

mcfez - 9-30-2010 at 05:08 PM

Quote:

and talk with the locals.

Repeat that ten times! Couldn't be better advise

dtbushpilot - 9-30-2010 at 05:42 PM

You can't swing a cat by the tail without hitting a realtor in Los Barilles, most if not all of them are for all intents and purposes unemployed. As always, be careful dealing with anybody that wants to sell you something, these days especially......

You might try talking to the locals.....oh wait, I am one...never mind....dt

desertcpl - 9-30-2010 at 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BFS
I had a very good experience with Pam Grey at pam@homesandlandofbaja.com and can highly recommend her.

hi Pam

Donjulio - 9-30-2010 at 08:09 PM

Didn't mention whether you were buying or selling. If you are buying don't do anything without an attorney.

bajacalifornian - 9-30-2010 at 09:15 PM

My question was sincere, but sage advice (particularly Bajahowodd) reshapes it. Does anyone in Barriles care to come fish Lopez? I have property available in Lopez Mateos. Living in Loreto, many from our community fish Lopez, several with second homes. It's close & different. Fishermen in Barriles, not much further, likely would enjoy Lopez similarly. Any fishermen from Barriles are welcome to stay free at my place in Lopez spending sufficient time, talking with locals & fishing both mangroves & the Pacific. May take several visits. You are welcome. Dtbushpilot, I do want to sell some of what I have, but only to insure university tuition next couple years in an uncertain economy. Forget Realtors in Barriles to present it. Present it among yourselves. Look in Baja Real Estate Available. Cheers! B.C.

drarroyo - 9-30-2010 at 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by desertcpl

Quote:

Originally posted by BFS
I had a very good experience with Pam Grey at pam@homesandlandofbaja.com and can highly recommend her.

hi Pam

capt. mike - 10-1-2010 at 04:29 AM

unregulated industry. no oversight. no licensing.
no comps records.
crap shoot.
deal direct and get a notario - pay him whatever commission the seller would have to pay and cut the price.
mexicans LOVE to dicker so negotiate.

heike - 10-1-2010 at 05:36 AM

Carlene at Homesand landof baja all the way!

www.homesandlandofbaja.com

We have worked with Carlene on 3 or 4 purchases/sales over the past 5 years. Very honest and always willing to help out wherever needed! If anything at least go and talk to her! Then you can make your own decision!

El Norte - 10-1-2010 at 07:12 AM

I recommend Carlene Lokey. She is totally honest.extremely knowledgeable, and very hard working for her clients.
What is a local? There is Alberto Cota, but Carlene is a local too by any standard,She is a Mexican Citizen who is a long time permanent resident. She gets my vote as the best realtor in los Barriles.

drarroyo - 10-1-2010 at 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Norte
I recommend Carlene Lokey. She is totally honest.extremely knowledgeable, and very hard working for her clients.
What is a local? There is Alberto Cota, but Carlene is a local too by any standard,She is a Mexican Citizen who is a long time permanent resident. She gets my vote as the best realtor in los Barriles.

It's great you had a positive experience!
Honesty did not even make the list with more than one experience of mine. Ok I promise I'm done with the 'slam'.
A local is a local. Please.
Both Alberto & Aldo at BajaProperties have fantastic track records.
Flame on!! :tumble:

bajafreaks - 10-1-2010 at 07:47 AM

We used Ruth Rundquist in the purchase of our lot in B.V. she's a local and has been there for years. It's a looooooong process no matter what realtor you use and having a lawyer available it's a bad idea either.

gnukid - 10-1-2010 at 10:24 AM

Most real estate transactions in Baja are person to person, seller to buyer, there is no such thing as formal agency, no laws that require fiduciary responsibility or require any responsibility whatsoever, anyone would consider trusting someone claiming to be a Real Estate Agent in Baja is crazy.

What you need is a buyer and a seller, a notario, a bank who is willing to create a fidicomiso and that is it.

The big difference in in baja versus the states is you must build a relationship between the buyer and seller versus in the US the agents represent you. In both cases this inflates the price and much of the money goes to the outside parties.

FYI everything is for sale - for a price!

wessongroup - 10-1-2010 at 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Most real estate transactions in Baja are person to person, seller to buyer, there is no such thing as formal agency, no laws that require fiduciary responsibility or require any responsibility whatsoever, anyone would consider trusting someone claiming to be a Real Estate Agent in Baja is crazy.

What you need is a buyer and a seller, a notario, a bank who is willing to create a fidicomiso and that is it.

The big difference in in baja versus the states is you must build a relationship between the buyer and seller versus in the US the agents represent you. In both cases this inflates the price and much of the money goes to the outside parties.

FYI everything is for sale - for a price!

ditto's

mcfez - 10-1-2010 at 10:33 AM

Quote:

Well put

Osprey - 10-1-2010 at 11:27 AM

Kid, I'm not a big fan of the realty system or it's members down this way but once again you are talking out of the top of your hat. Nothing in your post has any validity, credibility -- makes no sense, it's just more of your professorial maundering.

Marinero - 10-1-2010 at 01:31 PM

Before I retired to Mexico, I spent over 45 years in real estate, starting in title and escrow operations and ending as a real estate attorney. Things in Mexico are indeed different, but not a crapshoot. Carlene and her office are first class, as is Baja Properties.
Sellers and Buyers need to understand values, procedures and local custom. It is not the realtor's job to do it all for you, but to help you with information, education and paperwork.

Bajatripper - 10-1-2010 at 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Most real estate transactions in Baja are person to person, seller to buyer

I wonder how true that statement is. I suppose that if you are referring to "most real estate transactions between Mexicans," it would be true. But, if all of those real estate offices that have popped up around town here in La Paz during the last decade or so are any indication, I'd bet that more than 50% of foreigners are using real estate agents (or were, before the crisis) as their option. The problem for many would be the language barrier; your average foreigner isn't able to speak to your average ejidatario--who offer the best prices for property in these parts.

But I do agree totally that "real estate agents" down here are people with whom one must exercise caution for the reasons you have said. There is no regulation at present, any skum on the run can set up a shingle and start swindling foreigners, who often blindly trust their fellow countrymen over locals. Sad, but true.

gnukid - 10-1-2010 at 07:47 PM

It's always surprising that the truth gets people angry.

Most transactions in Baja are person to person without representation.

If you want to know go do a round of quick interviews in confidence with Notarios which you should be doing anyway as part of YOUR due diligence in any RE transaction.

The steps are basic

find a buyer and seller of a property who agree on a price

the seller must verify no liens and ownership current

the two meet at a notario to draw up paperwork, a foreign b uyer must engage a bank for fidcomiso, this paperwork is communicated to the notaria and then the transaction can be competed with transfer of title, keys etc...

If you are planning on buying or selling go directly to meet the notarios and interview them first, meet more than one, ask questions and see if you feel comfortable. If you need references or contact info for notarios ask here.

drarroyo - 10-1-2010 at 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
Kid, I'm not a big fan of the realty system or it's members down this way but once again you are talking out of the top of your hat. Nothing in your post has any validity, credibility -- makes no sense, it's just more of your professorial maundering.

Stick to ... 'writing'??
Paul has just NAILED it!! And his above (2:47am) post is just icing on the cake!
You don't get this after being in LB town for how long????
You are textbook greeengooo.
Future 'advice' from you holds so much less water. Thanx for the wonderful insight.
paz

drarroyo - 10-1-2010 at 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajatripper

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Most real estate transactions in Baja are person to person, seller to buyer

reread Paul's (Gnukid) postings. You're golden. Period.
There's opportunity!! (admittedly longterm ... but GREAT opportunity none the less.) You are not in Kansas anymore.
suerte

monoloco - 10-2-2010 at 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
It's always surprising that the truth gets people angry.

Most transactions in Baja are person to person without representation.

If you want to know go do a round of quick interviews in confidence with Notarios which you should be doing anyway as part of YOUR due diligence in any RE transaction.

The steps are basic

find a buyer and seller of a property who agree on a price

the seller must verify no liens and ownership current

the two meet at a notario to draw up paperwork, a foreign b uyer must engage a bank for fidcomiso, this paperwork is communicated to the notaria and then the transaction can be competed with transfer of title, keys etc...

If you are planning on buying or selling go directly to meet the notarios and interview them first, meet more than one, ask questions and see if you feel comfortable. If you need references or contact info for notarios ask here.

This is exactly how we bought our property.

i have to agree with this

capt. mike - 10-2-2010 at 05:28 AM

Quote:

the "kid" foments a lot of facts but i never see a bibliography or required foor notes to back up the off the cuff claims.

subject too

wessongroup - 10-2-2010 at 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by monoloco

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
It's always surprising that the truth gets people angry.

Most transactions in Baja are person to person without representation.

If you want to know go do a round of quick interviews in confidence with Notarios which you should be doing anyway as part of YOUR due diligence in any RE transaction.

The steps are basic

find a buyer and seller of a property who agree on a price

the seller must verify no liens and ownership current

the two meet at a notario to draw up paperwork, a foreign buyer must engage a bank for fidcomiso, this paperwork is communicated to the notaria and then the transaction can be competed with transfer of title, keys etc...

If you are planning on buying or selling go directly to meet the notarios and interview them first, meet more than one, ask questions and see if you feel comfortable. If you need references or contact info for notarios ask here.

This is exactly how we bought our property.

sujetos a, was the language I used in three deals... "subect too" was enough to afford me an opportunity to check things out up front... and insure the seller "owned said site" and it's exact location was were they said it was, proved by plot map and verified by a reshot of property lines .. if no.. then walk... with no money out of pocket...

if the seller was not comfortable with the "condition" added to the deal.... fine we walked, no harm to foul... no out of pocket, as that too was part of the "subject too".... no money till the end and all conditions were completed to my satisfaction per the contract ... you can hire someone to write it in Spanish... used the Consulate...

qualifiers are used frequently in transactions of many types.. used in real estate they can be very effective.. for the seller and/or the buyer ...

13 years in with a bank commercial and sfr, with a lot of my time working in SAD moving crap off the books .... .. and also worked with the trust department ... in Regulatory Affairs and/or risk management ...

thanks it all helps... and it is not really that hard to buy a house, anywhere.... the steps are pretty much the same... that said.. buying a home in Mexico, is not the same as buying a house in the United States... the Constitution of Mexico gives the Government charge over all property.

Data bases and their access is much harder... records pulls are also much harder... found a company which did it.. used to use Companies like these in the States ... one can go and copy and/or obtain any and all information under the Freedom of Information Act (which Mexico also has) for a "fee"... in the states it was $150 per record pull.. with building, fire and health... extended pulls would cost more, if a property had "history"... simple cost per page to copy the file .... where ever it was and how big...

Money talks BS walks....

Good thread.. it all helps....

[Edited on 10-2-2010 by wessongroup]

Osprey - 10-2-2010 at 07:21 AM

Mike, thanks for that. Gnu does often site references for his facts but sometimes his scope, his brush is too broad for that. It is impossible for Gnu or anyone to have as much knowledge of all things Baja as he spews and his bundles are suspect.

Crapshoot? For the millions of gringos who now have homes and condos and land all over Mexico? For all the millions to come? All those who use a realtor are crazy? Preposterous!!! In Baja Sur the realtors are trying very hard to self-regulate with outfits like AMPI. All the transactions end at the notario signing so realtor or direct, that recording is formal and standardized.

FYI Everything is for sale for a price? Nope. A ridiculous statement.

How could he even guess how many realty transactions there are per day/month/year that are handled by realtors vs buyer/seller/notario? Mexicans are just beginning to record realty transactions – they feared and distrusted regulators so millions of transactions went unrecorded. Google and computers and modernization in pueblos is changing all of that.

If it is ejido land, it would have to undergo the deed process and the realtor us not a part of that process. Gringo buyers would rarely deal with a seller one would call ejiditario because without the subdivision, the escritura in hand the seller has nothing to sell.

What is a crapshoot is how anyone in the transaction can set a reliable figure for market value. In my pueblo some of the realtors set a handsome price to entice a listing to sell, putting the property immediately off the market. Then they go without a commission for a year or two until they can talk the seller into lowering the price. Not the best, open and honest way to approach the process.

gnukid - 10-2-2010 at 05:32 PM

Everyone is entitled to an opinion: however one should refer to specific points if your goal is to counter another opinion, generally in a forum one would quote the statements you disagree with and counter those with new or better "facts".

In this case, I am making a very simple point about the term "agency" in Baja Real Estate. I have not criticized any of the aforementioned agents personally, in fact I know them personally to be congenial and probably well intended, however, the issue is simple.

In the USA the word Real Estate Agent connotes, denotes and implies legal license requirements and responsibilities, A failure to comply is legal grounds for recourse for negligence. In California this can mean that the two separate brokers, one for the buyer and one for the seller are legally and financially responsible to do their job correctly. If any number of circumstances goes wrong the agency must pay the costs to rectify the circumstances. And they pay dearly for their negligence.

That doesn't mean there are no problems in California RE agency, or misleading loan agents as well, however there is recourse.

In comparison, in Baja there are people who call themselves RE Agents but they do not perform the role of agent. They also have no license, no proven education or required responsibility.

In this case the word AGENCY carries emotional and legal connotations that the word does not denote. The person in Baja claiming to be an AGENT is in fact not your AGENT.

I know this. This irritates me. I know this personally, when I have met people calling themselves an agent, I asked some questions and realized that not only did they not understand the process of AGENCY, they also knew very little about the actual process of the property sale in Baja, the NOTARIA has legal responsibility, license and must do the work. The BANK completes the FIDICOMISO. There are steps to confirm title, transfer title and register title.

In Baja there are many people claiming to be AGENT who would like to double end a deal, that is they claim to represent the buyer and seller, which is impossible to do ethically. Furthermore when questioned about the process, about the taxes, the microfiche of lots and owners, the notario process they really know very little and often times do not even go to meet the notario nor do they check the receipts for paid bills, from water, gas, lights, taxes etc... so, what is irritating to me, about these very nice people and neigbors who call themselves AGENTS, is that they would like %10 of a transaction, often trying to double -end the deal (removing any chance of acting in your favor) they may pad deals with cushions and deposits they cash themsleves, they have no responsibility, no fiduciary responsibility to you as their client, they may have no knowledge or background in RE and have little desire to run around and push papers (claiming that you need a lawyer or someone else to do that).

In fact, the issue is so simple that it is laughable, there is no such thing as RE AGENCY in Baja.

The only thing possible is a helpful person who is willing to push the papers, who speaks english and spanish and is a kind, capable negotiator. This is has a set value in the area of $1000 for about 10-20h hours in the region.

On the other hand, when you see an office that promotes Codwell Banker, or Century 21 Real Estate in Baja, in fact it is not and you would be very hard pressed to find anyone in that office with the slightest understanding of the legal issues, the process and the responsibilities associated with a PROPERTY TRANSACTION.

I know this because I earned a license once, I have participated in owning ten homes, I know or met most every major agent from Marin to Cabo socially and I have spoken with both owners, notarios, people calling themselves agents, lots of pretty girts and handsome guys etc... and over a long time I have found out that in fact this is a case where words cause emotional associations and reactions which are not warranted and in so doing leave a gap of responsibility, whereas the buyer expects certain things and projects their expectation on a person calling themselves an agent while in fact no such agency exists and no such responsibility.

If people knew this coming in they would know they need to do their own DUE DILIGENCE.

It is also irritating to me , (because I care about people) that some people want to move to baja and buy but they won't give themselves 15 minutes to educate themselves. And worse that there are people who do live here, and have for years who would perpetuate this misleading use of words to mislead new buyers with connotations not worthy of the circumstances.

Finally, I have said nothing that should hurt anyone personally, and only things that wouyld help everyone, especially those acting in support of Bien Raices transactions in Los Barriles, I only hope that some people will be more encouraged to go do the work either as assistants to transactions or as the buyer/seller (which is all that, drive to the Catastro, check the microfiche, whose lot is it? Who paid the taxes last? Go to a Notaria, heck go to all of them, ask questions if they do not know the answer see if they will do research to help, the Notaria works for their money, the Catastro is your office to use.

[Edited on 10-3-2010 by gnukid]

gnukid - 10-2-2010 at 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
Mike, thanks for that. Gnu does often site references for his facts but sometimes his scope, his brush is too broad for that. It is impossible for Gnu or anyone to have as much knowledge of all things Baja as he spews and his bundles are suspect.

Crapshoot? For the millions of gringos who now have homes and condos and land all over Mexico? For all the millions to come? All those who use a realtor are crazy? Preposterous!!! In Baja Sur the realtors are trying very hard to self-regulate with outfits like AMPI. All the transactions end at the notario signing so realtor or direct, that recording is formal and standardized.

FYI Everything is for sale for a price? Nope. A ridiculous statement.

How could he even guess how many realty transactions there are per day/month/year that are handled by realtors vs buyer/seller/notario? Mexicans are just beginning to record realty transactions – they feared and distrusted regulators so millions of transactions went unrecorded. Google and computers and modernization in pueblos is changing all of that.

If it is ejido land, it would have to undergo the deed process and the realtor us not a part of that process. Gringo buyers would rarely deal with a seller one would call ejiditario because without the subdivision, the escritura in hand the seller has nothing to sell.

What is a crapshoot is how anyone in the transaction can set a reliable figure for market value. In my pueblo some of the realtors set a handsome price to entice a listing to sell, putting the property immediately off the market. Then they go without a commission for a year or two until they can talk the seller into lowering the price. Not the best, open and honest way to approach the process.

It seems to me that there are many of you that simply do not get out much enough to know what is going on. I hope that is more of a compliment than an insult.

In order to know how many transactions exist, this is what I did, I went to each notaria and asked how many transactions and whether or not there were agents and what function they completed. I also waited in the office for a while to view the traffic, I went to a bar where abogados go, I asked them how many transactions they complete this month versus last year, and how many were done with agents and what function they completed, also I asked how many transactions had fidicomisos. I also asked the banks. This is easy to do if you live nearby the offices and apparently not something you would do if you live far away or have no interests.

The reason I did this was because I looked for a place to buy for years and what I got was run around from people calling themselves agents. It was incredibly frustrating. So I decided to find out what transactions were occurring and with whom by asking. I was interested.

My survey of transactions was unscientific because I relied on the people to tell me the numbers, but the results have some validity, and more so than asking people calling themselves RE Agents. The majority of transactions of property are person to person with few claiming agency representation. There are fewer and fewer transactions of high value and many more of low value under 1,000,000mn.

The other conclusion is that there is no such thing as LEGAL AGENCY in Baja. The area of Bien Raices which is defined by licensing names such as Codwell banker or Century 21 as well as all those with OFFICE of REAL ESTATE AGENCY make up a small number of actual transactions. The name OFFICE of REAL ESTATE AGENCY is misleading in Baja.

Transactions which are associated with people claiming to be RE AGENTS would therefore require that you ask questions of this "agent" to discover are they doing due dilligence or not? What is their role specifically? and be careful what you sign with them and what you agree to as there is no formula, each interaction presents an entirely different situation, new variables, more chances for something to go wrong. Why add this agent to the buyer seller relationship?

Hopefully those interested in buying property will take this info and learn that you need to walk the streets and talk to people and spend time somewhere and get to know the neighbors in order to purchase in Baja-that's just how it works.

The one rule in property transactions is that everything has a price-this means that there is a market value for every property-the market value is the price that a buyer and seller can agree on. Do not let an "agent" get in the way of a meeting of the minds.

[Edited on 10-3-2010 by gnukid]

capt. mike - 10-3-2010 at 06:34 AM

"In order to know how many transactions exist, this is what I did, I went to each notaria and asked how many transactions and whether or not there were agents and what function they completed. I also waited in the office for a while to view the traffic, I went to a bar where abogados go, I asked them how many transactions they complete this month versus last year, and how many were done with agents and what function they completed, also I asked how many transactions had fidicomisos. I also asked the banks. This is easy to do if you live nearby the offices and apparently not something you would do if you live far away or have no interests."

i smell BS.....why would someone do this on their own time? and why would the prospectees want to be bothered and actually give their personal biz info to some stranger - and even if they did how could you prove the veracity of the data taken?

there are no comps stats used in mexico that i have found.
maybe that will change.

they need a computerized MLS or CoStar system and then you will have verifiable facts on all RE transactions.
and county recorder's offices would help too.

3rd world biz style ...pure and simple.

bajafreaks - 10-3-2010 at 08:45 AM

Geeeeez why does a simple request for a realtor recommendation lead to this? Have a drink.

Skeet/Loreto - 10-3-2010 at 09:00 AM

Experience --No Bull Puckey==

1. Locate the Property you are interested in.

2.Contact the Owners and ask for Current Documents. Make Copies.

3. Contact a good Noterioin La Paz such as Manuel Esquierda.

4.Have him complete the Transcaction,

My advice is to form your own Corp. Makes things Easier.

When the Loreto Bay Village thing started and all the Hot Shot Realators and Salesmen came into being things changed.
It happens all over when a Market gets Hot there is about 200 of these Hot shots who head for the Area,

Take your time, buy from the owner if Possible.

Skeet

gnukid - 10-3-2010 at 09:16 AM

When having a discussion which attempts to get to the facts some discourse may be required in order to understand what where when how why, this process is sometimes referred as rhetorical discussion or the trivium method. Basically we look at the arguments put forth and questions and ask ourselves which is logical, true and which are fallacies, false and misleading.

In the pursuit of truth there are many people who engage in an appeal to fallacies, they may do this because they have been misled or because they seek to mislead, in either case there are many examples of logical fallacies, some examples are those who make another similar argument which is easily disproved, another is the ad hominem attack or attack on someone's personality instead of the merits of the argument. An example of the logical fallacy of the ad hominem attack is well he is a gosh darn liberal, or those conservatives spend too much etc...

There are at least 50 primary common appeals to logical fallacy and 200 which have been identified. Another simple example is, well who cares anyway, and it's just the way it is which are common fallacies used here too.

A logical argument would include some specific point substantiated by some statements pertaining to facts.

Perhaps in discussion here we could work toward logical rhetorical discussion and learn to recognize the appeals to logical fallacy as false arguments.

In any case returning to the point of this thread, the is a simple difference in property transactions here in Baja versus the USA, the difference is in baja there is no definition of RE Agency, there is no license, education, legal or financial responsibility.

In general in Baja there is no risk put forth as RE Agent as there is in the USA where an agent carries the responsibility to serve the clients best interests and to ensure all statements are true. The lack of risk and responsibility in Baja should be recognized as such and therefore the recompensation of services to assist in sales should be proportionally adjusted downward to reflect the lack of risk.

For example, in Baja an Bien Raices assistant could be compensated a flat fee of $1000 to be present at all meetings, act as translator and paper pusher, just as one expects, like a visa expiditer. A sellers staging person should be compensated as well a flat rate for rental of plants or cleaning etc...

Percentages of sales in the area of %10 or double-ended assistants is inappropriate. The trend in baja to demand %10 or more from an person claiming to be an AGENT while effectively not taking any risk or responsibility has hurt the market considerably, both by raising the costs and expectations, and also by leaving a gap of responsibility in the eyes of the buyer who generally expects a similar relationship as he/she have come accustomed to in other countries such as USA.

To those who think I am belaboring an unimportant issue, you have two options one clear one is to not read what I am writing, the other is to read it and disregard it.

To those who wonder why I am interested in this subject, it is for many reasons. I am interested in how things work, I am interested in Mexico, I am interested in economy how prices and rates change inordinately and I am interested in understanding how to encourage people to be buyer beware so they do not loose their life savings or pay extraordinary fees. Generally, I would like to see people succeed in their dreams, if yours is to live in Los Barriles it would be nice to know how things work.

Now we could digress into stories about people claiming to be agents in LB who sold arroyo land, or who failed to check the liens on property or who caused great delays in sales effectively hurting the sale price, and others who failed to serve clients best interests. But, apparently specific allegations are not tolerated on BN only ad hominem personal attacks. Why is that?

[Edited on 10-3-2010 by gnukid]

gnukid - 10-3-2010 at 09:33 AM

This discussion leads me to consider a second minor point, as I travel often around baja and meet people, I often encounter properties for sale which are listed as reasonable prices and others which are incredibly unreasonable.

When I meet new arivals, often here for 5 day runs, they say "we want to buy" cab you get us property cheap? Here lies the confusing conflict, in order to engage in a contract person to person time is required to get to know one another and for a meeting of the minds. on the other hand it is possible to pay top dollar to a seller who could care less about the buyer, their plans or personality.

For too often I meet fly by night visitors who would can't change their mindset enough to even greet a seller formally so they do require an intermediary who all too often inflates the price exponentially.

To those seeking land in LB, it seems to me that about 1/3 at least of the homes are for sale directly or indirectly, if you have an interest in one, seek out the owner, ask neighbors for contact infor for homeowners, introduce yourself and begin the person to person process of property transaction. From my understanding there are many people willing to negotiate and who would like to sell but for various aforementioned reasons the prices and process is circumvented by the very people artificially placed between sellers and buyer. Do your homework.

john68 - 10-3-2010 at 10:25 AM

This is a pretty good website for East Cape real estate., both for sale by owner and listings by real estate agents.

http://www.bajawaterfrontproperty.com/

Osprey - 10-3-2010 at 11:32 AM

"Hello, Señor Lopez, notario # 21, this is Mr. Gnu of La Paz. I've been trying to get you on the phone for several days. I would like to meet with you tomorrow afternoon at 3PM to get some information from you about the number of realty transactions you have recorded over the last few years that were handled by realtors versus those without realtors."

"No, no, I can't pay you. I just need the information for this chat board thing. I'll need a few days with you to go through the platte book and have your girls pull files so we can look at the fideacomisos, the transaction notes, maybe the settlement agreement. See these people on the chat board are giving me a hard time and I ......" Click.

[Edited on 10-3-2010 by Osprey]

capt. mike - 10-3-2010 at 01:40 PM

hahahahahaha
osprey you nailed it big time.

gnu kid - you have too much time on your hands... it is clear in what you write, long boring prose.
sorry - you have no credulity with me.

monoloco - 10-3-2010 at 01:54 PM

I would mostly agree with Gnu, real estate agents in Mexico have no fiduciary responsibility to the clients, either buyers or sellers, all they are good for is directing you to homes that are for sale, beyond that it is the notario that does the actual part that counts. IMO what they do is not worth the typical 10% they charge.

maspacifico - 10-3-2010 at 05:09 PM

10% is pretty painful, if you are on the selling side. If you are on the buying end, and there is a good agent/representative/friend, they can be a god send. We bought a property in Todos Santos and the listing agent would have been worth an extra 5% from our end. Then there are the multitudes of displaced souls down here that think selling real estate is easy money....

Lee - 10-3-2010 at 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike
hahahahahaha
osprey you nailed it big time.

gnu kid - you have too much time on your hands... it is clear in what you write, long boring prose.
sorry - you have no credulity with me.

Mike AND Osprey are the ones nailing it. Paul is shooting from the hip, as he does from time to time. Relax, Paul, you don't always have to be right.

Lots of good real estate professionals in Baja -- some happen to be Norteamericanos. Big deal. I know 2 in Todos.

Too much stuff written about buying in Baja. Find someone you trust, get referrals.

MsTerieus - 10-3-2010 at 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid ...
In the USA the word Real Estate Agent connotes, denotes and implies legal license requirements and responsibilities, A failure to comply is legal grounds for recourse for negligence. ...

Quote:

In California this can mean that the two separate brokers, one for the buyer and one for the seller are legally and financially responsible to do their job correctly. If any number of circumstances goes wrong the agency must pay the costs to rectify the circumstances. And they pay dearly for their negligence. ...

NOW you're telling us how the LAW works???!!! You are dead wrong on the first point above, and very inaccurate on the second.

Quote:

In Baja there are many people claiming to be AGENT who would like to double end a deal, that is they claim to represent the buyer and seller, which is impossible to do ethically.

I have got news for you, Gnu: It is done in the U.S. all the time and is an acceptable -- "ethical," in terms of RE licensing requirements (as long as the parties both agree to it). So you don't seem to know much about real estate, either.

Quote:

On the other hand, when you see an office that promotes Codwell [sic] Banker, or Century 21 Real Estate in Baja, in fact it is not....

That is not my understanding -- I believe that that these outfits are FRANCHISES that can be purchased both in the US and in Mexico. So any CB franchise, e.g., is just as much a CB Office as another.

Quote:

I know this because I earned a license once ...

In WHAT?

(It sure wasn't LAW! :lol:

Was it a RE broker's license? RE agent's license? (Bartending?) What state?

Despite my criticisms, I do agree with your take on the lack of agency between a realtor and purchaser or seller in Mx, and I think that your "buyer beware" advice is very sound.

monoloco - 10-3-2010 at 07:11 PM

A real estate agent in Mexico:
Doesn't need a license.
Doesn't have to pass a test.
Doesn't have to disclose who they are representing.
Does not need any real estate experience.
Most likely only knows real estate law to the extent that another"agent told them"
So you need to be informed.
Do your own diligence.
Employ a notario for all the legal papers and filings.
Can anyone tell me what a real estate agent in Mexico does to earn a 10% commission?

mtgoat666 - 10-3-2010 at 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by monoloco
A real estate agent in Mexico:
Doesn't need a license.
Doesn't have to pass a test.
Doesn't have to disclose who they are representing.
Does not need any real estate experience.
Most likely only knows real estate law to the extent that another"agent told them"
So you need to be informed.
Do your own diligence.
Employ a notario for all the legal papers and filings.
Can anyone tell me what a real estate agent in Mexico does to earn a 10% commission?

and remember that property title in mexico is nebulous,... there is a reason that you can't get effective title insurance in mexico.
never invest more than you are willing to lose,... and remember that property investment in mexico is high risk

slimshady - 10-3-2010 at 08:31 PM

I have purchased several properties around baja the last several years. I have bought properties in Cerro Colorado, Punta Perfecta, Los Barriles, and Boca Alamo. I have also walked away from other deals because of title concerns. I even walked away from Puerto Los Cabos lot because they didnt have tax id numbers for the parcel yet, but were promising me they would get it.

A things to know are lsited on the previous entry and also that title insurance is questionable at best and USA named real estate companies are not finacially liable for services rendered in Baja. Basically you can't sue REMAX in the USA for REMAX in BAJA

In los Cabos I would use Alan Theirs or Marlene Gutierrez from buysell cabo.

In Los Barriles I would go with Bahia Real Estate. Rosa Geraldo will get you what you are looking for. They have an office next to Otro Vez. I have only had good experiences with them and I can trust them with my money.

You see it's one thing to sell you a piece of dirt and another to sell you a piece od land clear of any liens or title issues. This is where she comes in with the knowledge and connections in La Paz to research any piece of land you would want.

I have bought properties from other realtors and had her do my title research in La Paz for a nominal fee. Most American and Canadian realtors struggle with spanish however you may find some decent ones. Her husband build homes and builds some of the nicest homes around. Give them a try. If you want their email I can give it to you just U2U me.

Marinero - 10-4-2010 at 12:46 PM

Quote:

No effective title insurance in Mexico? That is news to me. Several American companies issue policies. Also, escrowa and closings can be accomplished in the states for Mexico properties.

Can't get effective title insurance? Think again.

Lee - 10-4-2010 at 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
and remember that property title in mexico is nebulous,... there is a reason that you can't get effective title insurance in mexico.
......
property investment in mexico is high risk

http://www.stewart.com.mx/

''Underwriting a property's title
Conducting a rigorous title investigation, STGMEX develops a robust summary of a property's title, often dating to the title's origin. Utilizing the detailed investigation, STGMEX's underwriters asses the property's title and then insure policy holders against potential losses resulting from matters affecting the title.*

Types of matters covered *:
Invalid documents executed under expired/non-existent power.
False assumption of identity concerning the legitimate property owner.
Liens and financial burdens charged to the previous property owner.
Non registered easements.
Hidden heirs of previous owners
The thorough nature of the title investigation along with the risk assumption by STGMEX gives policy holders an unparalleled level of protection from loses associated with a property's title.''

The parent company, Houston-based Stewart Information Services Corporation, has been in the title insurance business in the United States for more than a century. In recent years, it has expanded into about 30 other countries, including Mexico.

gnukid - 10-4-2010 at 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
"Hello, Señor Lopez, notario # 21, this is Mr. Gnu of La Paz. I've been trying to get you on the phone for several days. I would like to meet with you tomorrow afternoon at 3PM to get some information from you about the number of realty transactions you have recorded over the last few years that were handled by realtors versus those without realtors."

"No, no, I can't pay you. I just need the information for this chat board thing. I'll need a few days with you to go through the platte book and have your girls pull files so we can look at the fideacomisos, the transaction notes, maybe the settlement agreement. See these people on the chat board are giving me a hard time and I ......" Click.

[Edited on 10-3-2010 by Osprey]

If you are uncomfortable talking to a notaria then you are not going to have much luck in the process of living in Baja since the relationship you have is an important one that requires trust.

Perhaps going to meet a notario is not for everyone, but as a long time visitor here I decided to make it my goal to try to get to know them in order to know which ones I felt most comfortable with.

You should be able to walk into any notario office and wait to say a quick hello to the notaria. If they are not on site or difficult to engage then they are not likely the notaria for you.

This should be pretty simple and obvious. I'm not sure why Osprey takes offense to the notion.

If it makes it any easier I'll describe my first meeting with a notaria, I was frustrated and confused and literally slamming the steering wheel when a beautiful woman drove up next to me and said do you need help? I said yes and she told me to follow her to get coffee, when I got out of the car there stood a woman about 6'tall plus high heels, a model! I told of my plights and confusion over real estate agents and businesses and she said let's go to meet a notaria and we did, she walked in an introduced me to the Notaria. That was the first time and I have been building relationships, asking questions since. It's was a very important step to me to understand the notaria is a person who you can go and speak to, they answer your basic questions as part of their job, you pay when you complete a paper transaction which you eventually you will be required to complete, such as land transaction, business foundation, wills, etc...

There is nothing to be afraid of and you should meet more than one for certain and ask questions, if you don't get answers then you might prefer another notaria.

And to Osprey and Mike, it seems that you base an inordinate number of your replies on a personal attack? Consider that there are people who need answers here, none of us may know or we believe we know the answers, only through a dialogue and references can we get to the truth. I am glad that at least you are reading the posts and considering them, but consider making a serious reply, one that contradicts the points or adds support instead the ad hominem attacks which add nothing and are clearly false arguments that only serve to distract.

This dialogue and your one dimensional replies point to a larger issue: Why would communities collude to reinforce falsehoods and obscure the truth? Certainly this is a relevant question here on BN and in our broader community. There are many falsehoods which are common in our society, for example that war is for peace, or that we are defending ourselves in Iraq, or that the money markets are free, or that oil came from dinosaurs and is therefore limited. These are a few examples, as are the argument Osprey makes, which is to call someone names or implying that the point can not be valid because I am a camper in baja not a lawyer, instead of addressing the point.

Why is it that people in general, in this thread for example, support the collective lies of society instead of participating in critical discussion, specifically the lack of understanding of the issues surrounding these people calling themselves your real estate agent? It may have something to do with linguistics, people learned to have faith in the words Real Estate Agent when they were young wherever they came from so when they arrive here they want to reinforce something familiar. Whereas I could be wrong Osprey and Mike, but from my research I don't believe Real Estate Agent is a Mexican legal term.

Believing in cultural and societal untruths is to your distinct disadvantage. Isn't your life goal to investigate and succeed in life? Find out the answers through your own research.

gnukid - 10-4-2010 at 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MsTerieus
...

Despite my criticisms, I do agree with your take on the lack of agency between a realtor and purchaser or seller in Mx, and I think that your "buyer beware" advice is very sound.

I am not a lawyer, not at all, I am a simple gardener and sometimes I fix my cars. I am only telling what I believe to be true, if you have better info, why not add the information instead of simply making a personal attack-saying it's wrong without correcting the points details and making your own point.

If you feel you are knowledgeable, contribute and help out the community.

As to your insinuation, yes you can double end deals in the USA and many do but it is disclosed.

In the USA, a person must understand that they are giving up their option to have their own broker and agent when they agree to have a broker double-end a deal.

It isn't really helpful to fall into a trap of a discussion of comparisons between the USA and MX, I think it is more helpful to address understanding the false perception many project upon the terms Real Estate Agent when they are used here and a few basic pertinent points which I posed, which are:

In Baja Real Estate Agents are not legally bound to serve you or disclose full terms of transactions.

In Baja few visitors understand the process of Bien Raices, in a transaction you are paying the Notaria and you are paying the bank for your fidicomiso. You cna check the title yourself as well in the registro. So what are you paying upwards of 10% or more to this person claiming to represent you who is often unwilling or incapable to do the work?

Again, one should be asking why are so many people here so focused on personal attacks and which are an appeal fallacious logic? Why not make a point if you have one and support your position if it's in contrast to another poster.

We need to ask ourselves what purpose serves false logic, what disadvantages does it bring and learn to have communication what leads toward good information.

MsTerieus - 10-4-2010 at 05:21 PM

Hasn't it occurred to you, YET, that possibly, these "personal attacks" are a direct reaction to your assertions of FACT (not opinion -- there is a big difference)? Why should I waste others' time and mine writing a long explanation of why your statements such as that a realtor in the US who worked without a license would be liable for negligence? It is a ridiculous assertion; I would not lend it credibility by explaining why it is ridiculous.

If you are so worried about these personal attacks, I would suggest that you make your assertions much more carefully, noting when you are merely stating an opinion and when you believe you are stating facts.

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

Quote:

Osprey - 10-4-2010 at 06:03 PM

Gnukid, you make a powerful argument. I was gonna try to make my point but you got me with the tall girl outside the notario's office who made an introduction for you. I think I know that girl! What a coincidence! She was like a bronze statue and after the meeting she took me to places in La Paz I had no idea about. Did you smell Jasmine? Did she hum a little samba tune as she walked? I don't know, you might be right about a lot of this stuff because I was somehow, how do you say, bewitched, in her trance for the whole afternoon and all that next night. I never did get to talk to Alejandro Davis Drew. Just so you know, I didn't even need a notario, let alone a realtor. Delia and I were able to close the deal on our own.

Bajatripper - 10-4-2010 at 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drarroyo

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajatripper

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
Most real estate transactions in Baja are person to person, seller to buyer

reread Paul's (Gnukid) postings. You're golden. Period.
There's opportunity!! (admittedly longterm ... but GREAT opportunity none the less.) You are not in Kansas anymore.
suerte

I must have missed something :?:

k-rico - 10-4-2010 at 06:58 PM

Another option is to hire a real estate lawyer to represent your interests and perform the negotiations. That's what I did and it worked great. I paid a young bilingual Mexican lawyer $500. He was with me at the meetings with the seller, did the negotiations I wanted done, pushed the paper, got the fideicomiso set up at the bank, and was with me at the closing at the notario's office. I needed the hand holding and really appreciated his efforts. He took his job seriously, explained the process, answered my many questions, and acted in a highly professional manner. Well worth $500.

Bajatripper - 10-4-2010 at 07:00 PM

Quote:

the seller must verify no liens and ownership current

I would think that it would also behoove the buyer to ensure that there aren't any liens on the property and that current ownership is clear.

Bajatripper - 10-4-2010 at 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
Another option is to hire a real estate lawyer to represent your interests and perform the negotiations. That's what I did and it worked great. I paid a young bilingual Mexican lawyer $500. He was with me at the meetings with the seller, did the negotiations I wanted done, pushed the paper, got the fideicomiso set up at the bank, and was with me at the closing at the notario's office. I needed the hand holding and really appreciated his efforts. He took his job seriously, explained the process, answered my many questions, and acted in a highly professional manner. Well worth $500.

While I have a good enough command of Spanish to handle most things likely to come up during real estate transactions in Mexico (I've bought a house in La Paz and some properties from ejidatarios), I think that k-rico used the approach I would favor if I didn't. Things can get complex in a hurry, especially when language is a barrier.

gnukid - 10-5-2010 at 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Osprey
Gnukid, you make a powerful argument. I was gonna try to make my point but you got me with the tall girl outside the notario's office who made an introduction for you. I think I know that girl! What a coincidence! She was like a bronze statue and after the meeting she took me to places in La Paz I had no idea about. Did you smell Jasmine? Did she hum a little samba tune as she walked? I don't know, you might be right about a lot of this stuff because I was somehow, how do you say, bewitched, in her trance for the whole afternoon and all that next night. I never did get to talk to Alejandro Davis Drew. Just so you know, I didn't even need a notario, let alone a realtor. Delia and I were able to close the deal on our own.

I forgot the important part she was Miss Baja California.

And FYI people like Mike often say things like no way, who would go out and meet notaria?#@! which is sad to me, that people lack imagination, what else in life is there but to go out and engage the feeling that you can go out and find the answers to your questions, to find out that you were wrong, Baja is not San Diego, you can go out and walk right into almost any official office and just start asking questions and no one will be mad at you and likely they will help a great deal at no cost. Usually you can bring your dog too.

Hopefully that is the conclusion of the thread, be wary of people in LB who claim to be the greatest RE Agent ever yet seem to lack knowledge or understanding of the market, not to mention their listings are outrageously priced and they want you to pay a hefty commission but their car is broke so they do not want to drive to La Paz!

People have often said to me, no way I don't believe X when I recount the daily stories, which is why I started a daily journal with photos which is private but I share and I can always pull up the photo of an anchorage, or a fish, or a mission just like my partner DK...

Here is Gabriela a few days later at her birthday, she invited me to come and to bring friends! We made balloon art for her. Very reflective of Pacenos who are willing to help a stranger!

Gabriella Cumple

For kicks, here are a few more.

Tense moments

Fiesta

gnukid - 10-5-2010 at 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MsTerieus
Hasn't it occurred to you, YET, that possibly, these "personal attacks" are a direct reaction to your assertions of FACT (not opinion -- there is a big difference)? Why should I waste others' time and mine writing a long explanation of why your statements such as that a realtor in the US who worked without a license would be liable for negligence? It is a ridiculous assertion; I would not lend it credibility by explaining why it is ridiculous.

If you are so worried about these personal attacks, I would suggest that you make your assertions much more carefully, noting when you are merely stating an opinion and when you believe you are stating facts.

First off, you are mis-attributing statements me, a licensed realtor working for a broker, would be liable.

Your post speaks for itself, I still have compassion for you and I am sure many here do too. If you decide you seek a broader consciousness you'll find it. If you would like to contribute please do, I am sure you must have some pertinent knowledge you could share.

I think personal attacks hurt no one, they are easily ignored, the point I made to you is, you are apparently interested and would like to add a post so why not contribute, but to each his own.

You know I was thinking that negativity is just a habit, it's addictive, you can break it, just turn the corners of you mouth up and you feel a sensation, an improved mood. Try and see.

Good luck

[Edited on 10-5-2010 by gnukid]

Osprey - 10-5-2010 at 12:44 PM

Ah, Gabriela. Reminds me of Junko Podna:

Well I pawned my ratchet and pistol
And I pawned my watch and chain
Woulda pawned my sweet Gabriela
But the smart girl wouldn't sign her name

Gnu, I'm downloading every one of your posts. They will one day become A How To. Don't know what I'll call it because Fred Reed already has the title I wanted: "Fred on Everything". Now when I read your posts I get all the way to the end by pretending they are suggestions not directions for life on earth as you would have us live it. Is there a cover charge BTW?