BajaNomad - moe on Falcon Lake, TX shooting?

moe on Falcon Lake, TX shooting?

durrelllrobert - 10-6-2010 at 09:27 AM

"ZAPATA, Texas (CBS/AP) Mexican officials and American authorities are still searching for the body 30-year-old David Hartley, four days after he was reportedly shot in the head by pirates while jet skiing on a lake that straddles the U.S. and Mexico.

But now Mexican authorities are questioning whether the attack took place at all. In a statement, Marco Antonio Guerrero Carrizales, district attorney for Miguel Aleman Province, writes, "We are not sure. We are not certain that the incident happened the way they are telling us."

Hartley and his wife, Tiffany, were riding personal watercraft back from Mexico on Falcon Lake around 2:45 p.m. Thursday, when approximately six gunmen approached in two boats and opened fire, said Zapata County Sheriff Sigifredo Gonzalez.

Though it is unclear what exactly happened to Hartley, the sheriff said he was apparently shot when the couple attempted to flee after they spotted the boaters. His wife was not hurt and reportedly tried circling back to pull her husband from the water, but she was forced to speed away to U.S. waters after the gunmen opened fire again.

The district attorney questions why Hartley's body has not been recovered, particularly because they were told he was wearing a life vest, and there is also no sign of his jet ski. In fact, he contends, no evidence exists that a crime was committed."

Wouldn't be the first life insurance scam where the man just didappeard in Mexico ..

Woooosh - 10-6-2010 at 09:30 AM

The Today Show interviewed the wife this morning. A witness verifying her account of the events as she has relayed them has come forward. Mexico is pretty much denying everything. They should not have been on the Mexico side of the lake- but what do Narcos gain by taking head shots at people on jet skis? You'd think they would want to keep the area off the radar- not put it front and center.

Mexican Mysteries

MrBillM - 10-6-2010 at 09:36 AM

This is one of those stories where ANYONE who speculates regarding the circumstances before the FACTS are sorted out is in danger of having Their**** handed to them later.

While the story "might" be implausible, it DOES involve MEXICO where official corruption is endemic and NOTHING a Mexican official says can be taken at face-value.

This one could go in any number of directions and speculation is meaningless.

[Edited on 10-7-2010 by BajaNomad]

mtgoat666 - 10-6-2010 at 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
This one could go in any number of directions and speculation is meaningless.

mr bile:
and your post is speculative meaninglessness too

sanquintinsince73 - 10-6-2010 at 11:10 AM

Anything is possible. Could be that the bad guys took the body.

durrelllrobert - 10-6-2010 at 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Anything is possible. Could be that the bad guys took the body.

what does a perfectly good dead body bring on the open market today :?:

JoeJustJoe - 10-7-2010 at 02:36 PM

I'm calling BS on the story!

There is no evidence there is a body, no blood on the wives bathing suit, nor bullet holes on the Wife's jet skies. The story sounds far-fetched, and there are a few inconsistencies with the story and the Mexican gun men. Fox news is all over this story!

I think it's either a hoax or the wife killed the husband and is blaming the so-called Mexican pirates because it's a convenient story like when other American women would blame Blacks for a crime when they did the crime all along.

The first thing I'd want to know if the husband had an insurance policy.

Mexicali_Kid - 10-10-2010 at 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Anything is possible. Could be that the bad guys took the body.

As a Federal Prosecutor (PGR) once told me, "Think the worst of people and you will be closer to the truth."

wessongroup - 10-10-2010 at 09:42 AM

just saw where they have "blood evidence" from her "vest"... also, they had been stopped earlier that day for expired tags on their vehicle... and the stop was on the cam in the stopping officers squad car.... both ski jets are seen

[Edited on 10-10-2010 by wessongroup]

durrelllrobert - 10-10-2010 at 09:47 AM

This morning's news said that 2 brothers have been arrested in this case. no other details given.

DENNIS - 10-10-2010 at 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by durrelllrobert
This morning's news said that 2 brothers have been arrested in this case. no other details given.

Is this them??

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/38/85235855_a0e92d2643_o.jpg

wessongroup - 10-10-2010 at 09:54 AM

:lol:

Lobsterman - 10-10-2010 at 09:57 AM

Joe, or is Paul F. Sullivan,
those are quite hateful remarks from such a dispictable person. Her husband is murdered before her eyes, she has to leave his body there to save her life, she can not get the body back and you post that heartless reply. Your heart & mind is just full of evil thoughts and your actions to those TJ girls is beneath human.

You would be better off keeping your mouth shut now that the "cat has been let out of the bag". Even the cops are on to you now.

***********.blogspot.com/

[Edited on 10-10-2010 by Lobsterman]

durrelllrobert - 10-10-2010 at 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lobsterman
Joe, or is Paul F. Sullivan,
those are quite hateful remarks from such a dispictable person. Your heart & mind is just full of evil thoughts and your actions to those TJ girls is beneath human.

You would be better off keeping your mouth shut now that the "cat has been let out of the bag". Even the cops are on to you now.

***********.blogspot.com/

[Edited on 10-10-2010 by Lobsterman]

is this posted on the wrong thread

DENNIS - 10-10-2010 at 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by durrelllrobert
?: :?:

is this posted on the wrong thread

Nuthin gets by you...does it Bob. :lol:

JoeJustJoe - 10-10-2010 at 01:00 PM

Quote:

Wrong thread Lobsterman, but I can't actually believe anybody would believe that nice piece of fiction writing by Fulano! Lobsterman are you Fulano or one of his cult kool-aid followers? Cause only Fulano links his blog like that.

Ask in the paranoid thread and I'll break it down why it isn't me. Really the guy is obsessed with ruining my reputation over here over what I wrote about him.( not that my reputation is already ruined) But briefly when he tied me to being Mexicorn it was only a word we both misspelled according to him. We also leaned to the left, and he believed we both belonged to sex forums, but he never had an actual link, but everybody believed him.

This time he doesn't even give a link or any evidence that I"m this person who runs Juan's site. He just claims I'm this other 300 pound dude named Paul S and your suppose to believe him for some reason?

Well the only thing I know for sure in about a month I'm going to some other 300 pound fat loser, and Fulano's cult followers will believe that too. The story was so preposterous that I wasn't even going to respond to it, besides what I already said about it, because I didn't think anybody with an IQ above their shoe size would actually believe it, as this Fulano guy has cried wolf too many times and made too many false allegations to be credible.

But if you want to know something I'm willing to discuss it openly, but I had felt the "nomad" members weren't interested.
----------

Now back to the Mexican pirates. Supposedly the have two suspects of interest in the killing. I also read the Mexican papers where it says they are just interested in getting the body back? What about the prosecution?

The story still sounds kinda weird, but I could be wrong.

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/715047.html

vandenberg - 10-10-2010 at 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
the story still sounds kinda weird, but I could be wrong.

Wrong ??? YOU ? :no:

JoeJustJoe - 10-12-2010 at 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
the story still sounds kinda weird, but I could be wrong.

Wrong ??? YOU ? :no:

Not so fast Vandenberg.

The "Mexican AG Denies Report of Suspects in Jet Ski Case."

Read it here:

http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/mexican-ag-denies-repor...

They are back to square one. And I still say the wife isn't playing with a full deck and has made inconsistent statements in the media including "Fox news" about the shooting. My favorite quote from the women was when God was telling her to get out of there. I have nothing against religion but when you are hearing voices in your head there is usually some type of mental problem you are having.

I'm not the only one to cast doubt about this case. I'm shocked to learn that even right-wing pundit blog writer Michelle Malkin doesn't believe the wife's version of the events.

It isn't often that You'll find Michelle Malkin and myself in agreement, and because not even Michelle believes the wife. I'm going to remain a hold out and continue to believe this is a hoax or some kind of insurance fraud.

I of course could be proven wrong, but my gut feelings tell me something isn't right here, and I have the "Today show, Michelle Malkin, and even Fox new's Greta Van Susteren wondering about the wife's version of the events:

Check it out from Michelle's blog:

So in one version of the story, she outraces the pirates in back of her with guns blazing and her mortally wounded husband left behind in haste.

In another version, two boats are actually in front of her with a third boat that came within 10 feet of her — with none of them shooting anything at her as she rides towards and past them to get away while her husband’s life vest-encased body floats in the lake. Moreover, she simultaneously claims that the gunmen didn’t get close enough to say anything to her and can’t remember anything about what they looked like, but also that she a) looked down the barrel of their gun and b) told them not to shoot her.

Which is it?

http://michellemalkin.com/2010/10/09/inconvenient-questions-...

[Edited on 10-12-2010 by JoeJustJoe]

Update on Texas river shooting of American

sanquintinsince73 - 10-12-2010 at 02:47 PM

The severed head of the lead Mexican investigator looking into the disappearance of an American has been delivered to authorities in Mexico, the sheriff's department on the Texas side of the border says.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39637423/from/toolbar

Headless MUST be a Coincidence

MrBillM - 10-13-2010 at 09:38 AM

Because JoeJustBlowJoe says it's all a hoax.

And, HE knows.

sanquintinsince73 - 10-13-2010 at 12:42 PM

Missing jet skier's wife won't return to Mexico
The wife of an American man missing after a reported shooting on a border lake said Wednesday she will not go to Mexico to meet with authorities because she is afraid.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39650645/from/toolbar

durrelllrobert - 10-13-2010 at 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Missing jet skier's wife won't return to Mexico
The wife of an American man missing after a reported shooting on a border lake said Wednesday she will not go to Mexico to meet with authorities because she is afraid.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39650645/from/toolbar

who can blame her for wanting to keep her head

JoeJustJoe - 10-13-2010 at 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Because JoeJustBlowJoe says it's all a hoax.

And, HE knows.

Well according to the article just posted above the severed head of the individual was unrelated to Hartley investigation. ( see quote below)

I guess Mr Bill believes the wife because she is American, and her words must be taken over Mexican officials words, and besides Gov Rick Perry has got into the act regarding this incident?

Of course if the incident like this happened just in the US the wife would be the first suspect in the death of her husband, as family members are usually the first suspect they rule out, especially if they give inconsistent statements like this women has.

If I were a cop I'd come down hard on her telling her C'mon lady which is it? Did the Mexican pirates chase you at a high rate of speed, and you got away just in time when God was telling you to go. Or were the Mexican pirates surrounding aiming the gun barrel to your head while deciding what to do with you? Lady why didn't the Pirates just blow off your head too, or take you prisoner, rape you, and then cut off your head? Did God speak to them to let you go Lady?

Mrs Hartley does your husband have any life insurance, and if so how much is in insured for? Mrs Hartley do you have any Mexican lover, and if so did you discuss your husband with that Mexican?

Mrs Hartley are you willing to take a lie detector test to prove your innocence, because this investigation is going to cost a lot of money on both sides of the border and we want to be sure you had nothing to do with the disappearance of your husband.

These are just some of the questions I'd ask. Over on Malkin's site they have a poll where the readers give their opinion on what happened here. The majority of them say the wife killed her husband, but this was before the rest of these stories came out. I'm sure more people would believe the wife now, but I don't.......I think the wife killed her husband.

------------------------------------------------------------
A spokesman for the prosecutor's office in the Tamaulipas state confirmed that Flores had been killed, but said the death was unrelated to the Hartley investigation.

mtgoat666 - 10-13-2010 at 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
I'm not the only one to cast doubt about this case. I'm shocked to learn that even right-wing pundit blog writer Michelle Malkin doesn't believe the wife's version of the events.

It isn't often that You'll find Michelle Malkin and myself in agreement, and because not even Michelle believes the wife. I'm going to remain a hold out and continue to believe this is a hoax or some kind of insurance fraud.

who cares what joejoe or malkin think? neither hoar knows anyything beyond 30-second sound bites they get from cnn. who care if jojo and some media skank agree on something?
who cares about anything jojo says -- perhaps fulano cares? :lol:

JoeJustJoeBlows

MrBillM - 10-13-2010 at 07:50 PM

And, apparently has a reading comprehension problem.

READ, and note, that I haven't stated ANY Theories regarding this incident. I don't necessarily believe Anybody and that's clear to those above the Retard level in reading. I have confined my comments to the tendency of people to Theorize wildly when they have absolutely no FACTS to base their Idiot conclusions on.

There are those who love to speculate on any subject without any knowledge so that they can feel special when it turns out they were correct. They do, of course, simply forget those times when their ramblings turn out completely off the mark. This will, no doubt, be another of those times.

BUT, Joe knows. Scheisse, at least.

JoeJustJoe - 10-14-2010 at 01:00 AM

Mr BillM wrote: JoeJustJoeBlows

This will, no doubt, be another of those times.

Headless MUST be a Coincidence
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Mr Bill said, "I haven't stated ANY Theories regarding this incident." Oh really?

Mr Bill your hostile message is loud and clear along with your "proud Jingoist" mood; your inferred opinion that I blow; that I will be wrong.

Just come out and admit you believe the wife and you believe Gov Rick Perry's BS the Mexican pirates/ cartel killers cut off the investigators head as a warning!

If you didn't believe the wife Mr Bill you wouldn't have made the premature sarcastic message about the " Headless MUST be a Coincidence?" As if that's proof that there are indeed Mexican Pirates killing gringos on Jet Skis for the hell of it.

In a couple of years I predict this case will be on "Dateline" in a hour long story.

[Edited on 10-14-2010 by JoeJustJoe]

JoeBlowing

MrBillM - 10-14-2010 at 09:46 AM

"Infer" seems to rule JoeBlow's Logical method which is not surprising. When people of Low_Intellect "infer", however, the result is usually just more retarded bloviating bearing little relation to reality.

Go Joe Go. Or, Blow Joe Blow.

IF you're proved correct, you can feel like the Leader of the Special-Ed club and we'll acknowledge your "Savant" status.

On the other hand.........., Yeah, we'll bring that up again and again and again.

I don't have any idea what's true in this case and NOBODY operating on the facts alone has any proof. The latest theory on the news media is that it was a case of mistaken identity. Living in the High-Desert where there have been a number of Mistaken Identity shootings by the Druggies, that would not surprise me, either. Back in the 70s, we had two motorcycle riders enjoying the off-road when they inadvertently crossed near a cabin where drugs were being manufactured. The occupants came out with rifles and shot both dead.

All a mistake. So, Quien Sabe ?

IF it's a hoax, THAT will come out eventually. It always does. If not, "Maybe" we'll find out, assuming the Mexcops have the desire to keep going and the guilty don't cover up the evidence too well.

A-M-F Joe. Keep up Coming up with that "Inferring" stuff. It's worth what it costs.

[Edited on 10-14-2010 by MrBillM]

What are the odds?

Dave - 10-14-2010 at 12:32 PM

Quote:

Mr Bill believes the wife because she is American, and her words must be taken over Mexican officials words

Given then level of corruption why would anyone initially believe the words of a Mexican official over those of an American?

Lobsterman - 10-14-2010 at 01:02 PM

Hey Paul F. Sullivan,

Go to Fulano's Blog and get the lastest theory on this unfortunate event.

JoeJustJoe - 10-14-2010 at 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Mr Bill believes the wife because she is American, and her words must be taken over Mexican officials words

Given then level of corruption why would anyone initially believe the words of a Mexican official over those of an American?

Because one of the first things you do in a murder case is look for a"motive" and that means one of the first things you do is look at family members, especially a spouse.

The wife doesn't come across as credible at all hearing voices from God, and making 180 degree inconsistent statements in regards to the shooting were they chasing her at a high rate of speed. What an expert marksman that Mexican pirate must have been to shoot a guy in the back of the head riding away on a fast moving Jet ski. Was the shot to the back of the head or front? The wife seems undecided if it was a front or back head shot? If it was the other scenario where they surrounded the wife with guns aimed to her head. How did she get away because it would have taken her at least 10 seconds to get away from shot range?

Someone like a Dr Micheal Baden a forensic pathologist would have a field day debunking the wife's statements such as how the body fell when shot.

Of course Texas Gov. Rick Perry says is reprehensible for anyone to question the wife Mrs. Harley's account. Why not question her account Gov Rich Perry when she makes so many inconsistent statements?

Could it be because she is white, she is American, and her version of the events shouldn't even be questioned because of that? And everybody knows Mexico is dangerous, corrupt, and Mexicans shouldn't even be trusted to tell you the truth.

Then we have Mr Bill over here saying, listen to me folks don't speculate what happened on Falcon Lake because you might be wrong and get your "read end" handed to you, and I'm going to get my panties in a bunch if you do speculate, and Mexico is corrupt and will probably cover it up anyway. BTW the latest theory on mistaken identify sounds plausible to me cause I remember in the 70's a couple of yahoos were shot by Mexican drug dealers. ( yes I'm inferring here on a couple of things Mr Bill has said, I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong.)

So Gov Perry and Mr Bill I'm going to continue talking about this case as long as I'm a member here. I think this is a interesting case. I think it's thinly veiled racism if anybody like Gov Perry would have a problem looking closely at some of Mrs Hartley's statements and looking at her as a possible suspect.

On forums such as the "Nomads" and just about all other forums. Members do offer their opinions on a wide range of subjects. Why should this incident be the exception?

[Edited on 10-14-2010 by JoeJustJoe]

JoeJustJoe - 10-14-2010 at 01:45 PM

Mtgoat wrote: speculative meaninglessness too

who cares about anything jojo says -- perhaps fulano cares?
-------
Lobsterman Hey Paul F. Sullivan,

Go to Fulano's Blog and get the lastest theory on this unfortunate event.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey thanks Mtgoat for mentioning that Mr Bill's post was both speculative meaninglessness too. You're right.

Mtgoat I doubt if anybody cares much of what you write either, and our friend, although watches every move I make, and would like nothing else but to come here and debate me on this subject. He is watching you too, and in fact made his second statements about your so-called ultra liberal positions that he doesn't like, but he claims because you don't lie, cheat, or steal your safe for now away from being a featured "Nomad" member. Damn I wished he would reconsider. Those things are funny to read, although I doubt they have much truth in them.
------------------------------------
Lobsterman if anybody believes the BS that I'm this Paul F. Sullivan loser.( the 3rd time the charm?) Then they probably also believes the wife's version of the killing. Now it could turn out that I'm wrong, and I'll wear the egg on my face, but I'm almost sure the wife's version of the event is complete BS.

And yes I saw the latest theory, because I know how to use "Google" and search for the latest on any subject like our friend or your multiple personality Lobsterman?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7246482.htm...

I didn't know that "Think Tanks" do murder investigations too?

The key words in the whole article is this

Why doesn't he cite his source? And since when do Mexican drug cartel members hide their killing? If you ask me the drug cartels are proud of the heads they cut off and like to display them in public.
---------------------

"Burton, who doesn't cite his sources, goes on to say the beheading Tuesday of Rolando Armando Flores Villegas, the lead Mexican investigator in the case, was a stern signal to both the United States and Mexico that no body will be produced and to leave the situation alone."

[Edited on 10-14-2010 by JoeJustJoe]

More Blow from Joe's Hole.

MrBillM - 10-14-2010 at 03:55 PM

Speaking of Nutcases, the whole thing DOES seem a little ODD.

Not the shooting, But the extent to which JoeBlow seems to be obsessed with promoting HIS version of something he has no information on.

Now, that "might" keep a Psychiatrist Busy.

I saved a copy of his version so that we can compare it to future events as they develop.

motoged - 10-14-2010 at 10:32 PM

Joe Blows Mr.Bile....Mr. Bile is just another Joe :lol:

You guys are great :lol:

this is getting better than Turtle Soup

Thanks

MrBillM - 10-15-2010 at 09:31 AM

I live my life to perform a necessary Public Service spreading Knowledge with alacrity and patient understanding for the lesser Intellectual Lights.

I "COULD" be described as the Literary equivalent to Mother Teresa.

Feel free to use that description. You won't offend my Modesty.

DENNIS - 10-15-2010 at 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM

Feel free to use that description. You won't offend my Modesty.

Always fun to watch you perform, Bill. :lol:

JoeJustJoe - 10-15-2010 at 09:57 AM

At the risk of getting Mr Bill's panties in a bunch again and ignoring his request that we don't speculate on the killing except what he says. I'm going to continue talking about this case on Falcon Lake because it keep me entertained, and if you know me I do sometimes cover subjects in great detail.
--------------------------------

There are news articles out there that mistakenly claim that Mexico has suspended the search because Mexico and even the US accept as fact the theory that the killing was a case of mistaken identify by the drug cartels.

But this article seems to be the most accurate based on the words the Mexican spokesman Ruben Dario Rios of Tamaulipas.

"Dario Rios said Tiffany Hartley has not responded to the AG's formal request for more information about the incident. "We still have not spoken to her."

I wonder what's the real reason Tiffany Hartley won't speak the AG's formal request for more information from Hartley, and I don't believe that Hartley fears for her life when I'm sure other Americans would go with her to protect her. I think Hartley fears the truth will come out under questioning from the Mexican investigators, and if Hartley really loved her husband, and wants to find the body then I would think she would put her fear aside and answer the questions the Mexican investigators have.

Hell the Texas Rangers are on this case. I would think they would protect Hartley, and would solve this case by now?

Personally I think the searches are looking in the wrong place for David Hartley. They should be looking in the Arizona desert because Arizona's Gov Brewer says there are headless bodies buried in the desert on the US side:
--------------------------------------------------------------

Mexican Authorities Suspend Falcon Lake Search

FALCON LAKE -- Mexican authorities confirmed Friday the search for David Hartley's body has been suspended. Ruben Dario Rios, a spokesman for the Tamaulipas State Attorney General's office, told CNN "We have suspended the search for the body. Our investigators have taken a temporary recess so that we can better assess the strategies we are using to find the body. We are currently considering other approaches to our search." Darios Rios said the search was suspended Thursday. He denied reports that threats of violence by Los Zetas led officials to suspend the search. "We have no official information of threats on our investigators," Darios Rios told CNN.

A homicide investigator with the State AG's office was decapitated this week two days after releasing information about the case to the media. Mexican officials have denied his murder was connected to the Hartley investigation. Dario Rios said Tiffany Hartley has not responded to the AG's formal request for more information about the incident. "We still have not spoken to her," he told CNN.

CHANNEL 5 NEWS spoke by telephone to Tiffany Hartley's mother, Cynthia Young. "We are very disappointed," she said. Young said the decision by Mexican authorities to suspend the search lessens the chance of locating David Hartley's body. Young said the family told investigators almost a week ago to focus their search on land, not Falcon Lake. She said the family is willing to meet with Mexican authorities but only in the United States. "We're not going to Mexico," she said, adding the family has given Mexican investigators all the information they have.

Tiffany Hartley said she and her husband David were ambushed Sept. 30 by men in three boats while taking pictures near a historic church on the Mexican side of Falcon Lake. Hartley says her husband was shot in the head and she was forced to abandon his body as the pirates approached her and opened fire.

TheColoradoDude - 10-15-2010 at 10:23 AM

Please spend a moment and think about the 2 familes that lost someone close to them. Think about the emotions that both families are having to endure right now. Then please be thankful that this did not happen to you or your loved ones. We have all lost someone close to us in our lives, how would we feel if others where making speculative comments about their death purely for entertainment purposes.

Thar He BLOWS !

MrBillM - 10-15-2010 at 11:33 AM

Somebody get the Harpoon.

Given JoeBlow's Bombastic Detailed Theortical Analysis sans Facts, we can only hope that he doesn't turn his attention to Sodomy.

That would be much more than anybody wants to know.

Woooosh - 10-15-2010 at 11:46 AM

I'd hate to get facts in the way of endless speculation but The Today show this morning had dashcam video from a Texas police cruiser. They stopped the car towing the two jet-skis behind on a trailer over for having expired plates. The trailer had MEXICO plates, from when the couple lived in Reynoso. It would seem logical a Mexican trailer unloading jet-skis could be mistaken by one cartel as being water-spies for the rival cartel...

DENNIS - 10-15-2010 at 11:50 AM

This is crazy. Now the cartels have a Navy of Swift Boats??
They could afford a space program. Maybe they should bail out NASA.

JoeJustJoe - 10-15-2010 at 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheColoradoDude
Please spend a moment and think about the 2 familes that lost someone close to them. Think about the emotions that both families are having to endure right now. Then please be thankful that this did not happen to you or your loved ones. We have all lost someone close to us in our lives, how would we feel if others where making speculative comments about their death purely for entertainment purposes.

Good point Colorado dude and I'm not going to lie and say I don't have some type of morbid fascination with this case and that I don't like to entertain myself by writing about it on Baja forums. And if I'm wrong shame on me.

But lets look at this case another way. What would happen if this case turned out like I believe and that Tiffany Hartley killed her husband, or had him killed for an insurance scam and she was actually banging some Mexican Pirate, Zeta, or Gulf cartel cartel solider and just killed her husband because he found out?

Look at the damage that Tiffany Hartley already caused with her story about killer pirates on Like Falcon. Texas already has issued a "travel warning" against Texas citizens traveling to Mexico over this incident, and a travel warning is much more serious and severe than the US state departments "travel advisory." If Tiffany Hartley is lying. Think of the damage she did to the Mexican economy.

This is not the first time a wife has named minority suspects in the death of others and played on the criminal stereotypes of others races or ancestral backgrounds in order to cover up their own crimes.

This case is already public, and Hartley is on TV just about everyday scaring the public. So I will continue to cover, and speculate on the possible motives and evidence of this case on "Baja Nomad" no matter how tight Mr Bill gets his panties and chokes off oxygen to his brain down below.
-----------------------------------------------
I'm not surprised that Mr Bill is interested in sodomy. He tries to come off as this experienced macho man who rides trucks, motorcycles and I think planes?

But I'm pretty sure that I know what Mr Bill really likes to ride?

Mr Bill I'm open to any subject you want to talk about.

JoeJustJoe - 10-15-2010 at 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
I'd hate to get facts in the way of endless speculation but The Today show this morning had dashcam video from a Texas police cruiser. They stopped the car towing the two jet-skis behind on a trailer over for having expired plates. The trailer had MEXICO plates, from when the couple lived in Reynoso. It would seem logical a Mexican trailer unloading jet-skis could be mistaken by one cartel as being water-spies for the rival cartel...

It looks like Wooosh is a little late to the party. A few days after the incident there seemed to be some evidence backing up what Mrs Hartley said, because at first there was nothing no body, no blood evidence, no bullet holes, no nothing but inconsistent statements. That's why you had me, and a whole host of others even rabid right-wingers questioning this so-called murder incident.

A few days ago they said a police officer did stop the couple, but we didn't see the webcam. So at least it places the Hartley's at or near Lake Falcon.

What it doesn't do is make this a slam dunk case, and takes all the suspicion off Tiffany Hartley, and puts all the blame on the Zetas or Gulf cartel suspects. According to some news reports they already had these water "pirates" persons of interest convicted and tried in the papers when they haven't even talked to the possible suspects yet. Now Sheriff Gonzales says Hartley isn't a suspect anymore, but I'm sure the Mexican authorities would like to question Hartley because they are not so sure.

So I'm sorry Wooosh case isn't closed, and this doesn't prove this was a case of mistaken identify. The only thing the webcab proves is it places the couple near the lake and they probably were at the lake What happened later is still a mystery. ( they also found blood evidence later, but we don't have those results yet)

I'm more suspicious than ever since finding out that both of the Hartleys live in Reynoso, Mexico and were moved from there because of some type of problem.

I wouldn't be surprised if one or both of this couple were involved with drugs and/or drug catels in some way?

Surprising JoeBlow

MrBillM - 10-15-2010 at 04:20 PM

Given his rhetoric, you wouldn't think JoeBlow would be surprised if an Alien Saucer landed in his Backyard. He probably expects it to happen at any moment. He MAY have already SEEN it Happen, at least in his mind. His home is probably notable for the Aluminum Foil covering the windows.

And, Moi Macho ? NO.

Never have been. Got my Butt kicked a lot as a kid. Came out second-best in most Fist Fights I ever got into and, as a result, rely heavily on weapons and deceit whenever conflicts arise. Since my youth, I've carried a Straight-Razor in my pocket (in case I need a quick shave), a USMC Combat knife under the seat in my truck and a sawed-off Baseball bat. Used to carry a bat that I'd drilled out the head and filled with lead, but that's illegal.

You just NEVER know when one or more may be needed. And, of course, In El Norte, Mr. Colt, Ruger, Browning or the like under the seat for that "Reach out and Touch Someone" level of comfort. I used to carry a .380 with a six-round capacity until the night I turned a corner and ran into the middle of a party that had turned into a street-brawl. I realized then that Six rounds just wasn't enough, although they moved out of the way and concentrated on beating up each other. Next time, Quien Sabe ?

There are those who have said I'm Paranoid, but even Paranoids have enemies, don't they ?

As a rather funny aside, packing had become such a common trait that there were two occasions when I forgot to Remove Mr. Colt before heading South. Remembering on the way down, I took great pains to bury the thing deep inside my clothing bags. Really peeed off mi esposa. I've long ago learned my lesson on that one, though.

Trucks ? Three. Cars ? None. Planes ? None. Gave up flying years ago just after marrying the current spouse. She HATED small planes. Too bad, but she's worth it. Took up sailing with her and that's over too. Now, I probably couldn't pass the physical, anyway, and it's too damned expensive. Flying, not sailing, that is.

Macho, Not a chance, especially now that I'm old. But, if anybody takes me on at home or on the Road (up North), they're going to know they were in a fight if they live.

BTW, we know that Joe can't read, but I never wrote that those Druggies who shot the two motorcyclists in marooongo Valley were Hispanic. I don't believe they were, in fact. Just White Guys mixing Chemicals.

Semper Paratus

[Edited on 10-15-2010 by MrBillM]

Skeet/Loreto - 10-15-2010 at 05:04 PM

Joe Jus Joe:

You have a Major Problem!! I am not sure where you are coming from this date.

What is your Background and experience that you can give so much Advice??

How old are you. Your Posts seems to show you must be at least 16 years of age.

The Internet is only for Talking people, it is mostly Bull Puckey.

Where are you coming from??

DENNIS - 10-15-2010 at 05:50 PM

Why do people here talk with people like joe? All he offers is gruesome hatred .
I'm at a loss as to why Doug has permitted this monologue of pee 'n-chit.
To this point, joe has done nothing constructive for this site. He has done nothing more than stretch the perameters of free speech and that's his life-line to survival here.
This man is not our friend. This man is only looking for a forum to spew his self-rightous views of current events.
Why do you respond?
Why do you give him credibility when he has less than none?

Doug won't dump him because he gives everybody here the utmost respect and freedom of thought.

I don't. I make less than rightous evaluations on day to day occurrances and this, the invasion of a troll poster to our community, is one instance for which we have to stand up and object to. This joe person is here to be disruptive and he's doing exactly as he plans. He hasn't said one nice thing since he came on board.

He's abusive. He's self-rightous. He's not Baja. He's nowhere near Baja. He's disruptive and he's a card-carrying buttcrack.

I will leave if he stays. I know most couldnt care less, but I will.

bajabass - 10-15-2010 at 05:54 PM

Dennis, please stop reading my mind! :wow:

Woooosh - 10-15-2010 at 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeJustJoe: It looks like Wooosh is a little late to the party.

You call this a party? I'm gonna take up beer drinking again, 'cause It doesn't feel festive here yet to me...

Back on Topic and Not P---ing.

MrBillM - 10-15-2010 at 06:32 PM

One of the few things about the Falcon Lake mystery News Coverage that I (and I really think everybody here, even Joe ? ) find amusing (and a sign of the clueless elite NY-DC media) is the fact that they seem mystified and suspicious about the couple driving a car with Mex Plates towing a trailer with U.S. plates.

OBVIOUSLY, they've never spent any time in Mexico (except at Club Med ?) or anywhere along the border. Just about EVERYBODY, especially residents, drive ALL sorts of combinations, some of them even Legal. Those I know, including myself, do whatever works. And, costs less.

It's a good indication of how your own personal experience can color so much of what you see or hear regardless of facts.

vandenberg - 10-15-2010 at 08:09 PM

How could I possibly have gotten through this day without this valuable information . :no:

surfer jim - 10-15-2010 at 08:30 PM

What the ......?

JoeJustJoe - 10-15-2010 at 08:52 PM

Wow, who is on trial here the Zetas, Mrs Hartley, or Joe, just Joe? Sorry guys I'm feeling under the whether and don't feel like posting anymore today. I ate something that made me sick.

But really the best way to respond to trash posts like what Lobsterman posted is not to respond.

A good example when Mr Bill was trying to flame me. I slipped in that I thought he was gay, and then he gave a long winded response in defense that actually makes him seem weaker, because he is no longer attacking me but defending himself.

Skeet/Loreto I'm just a Chicano from occupied Aztlan where I practice the 7 deadly sins as I say on some other forums. I have no special knowledge of police investigations but I have a keen interest in human nature and am very good at spotting BS.

Dennis cracks me up with his "Baja" theme and what's the right kind of words and right kind of member and Dennis calls me self-rightous! The fact is Dennis and I had words with each other elsewhere, and he just doesn't care for me, and the feelings mutual. What can I say except don't let the door hit you on your way out Dennis.

I hear many guys talk about how bad censorship is, but the moment they hear something they don't like they want it censored.

Lobsterman me and you will talk later. BTW tell your buddy Fulano, the real guy who owns Juan's not this joker Paul S is a New York Jew but now lives in Southern California and was Physical Education major, and still works out almost everyday, and is abrasive as a guy you'd ever meet.( I haven't met him personally but he is well known, hated, and he doesn't care because he lives in various international destinations 6 months out of the year, and doesn't live with his mother.)

[Edited on 10-16-2010 by JoeJustJoe]

Woooosh - 10-15-2010 at 09:16 PM

it still doesn't feel like a party yet to me. :saint:

Oh No Joe ?

MrBillM - 10-15-2010 at 09:41 PM

Not a Fag Attack ? Another Rump-Rider Accusation from the Mongoloid Minions ?

While not unusual, it sure is Queer.

But, I can handle it considering the source.

Next, he'll be calling me a New York Jew.

And, I've never been there. Besides, I'm only part Jewish.

[Edited on 10-16-2010 by MrBillM]

surfer jim - 10-15-2010 at 10:18 PM

Something is missing here..... :?:

Cypress - 10-16-2010 at 07:39 AM

It's looking like all the wild speculating was wrong and the wife was only telling the truth.

That's the Trouble with Wild Speculation

MrBillM - 10-16-2010 at 09:47 AM

However, the final story may play out, Wild speculation which theorizes a specific party is guilty with NO established facts, has a great potential for harm. As they say with such stories in the newspapers ( or, at least, did when newspapers were important ) " The accusation makes Page One, the correction Page 20 ".

Of course, this being a recreational Forum and these postings are simply diversional play, the Wild and Weird theories expressed here have no real meaning and aren't paid any attention to outside of the cultists, it can't be said that they affect anyone in any way so no real harm is done.

It's just Dumb.

motoged - 10-16-2010 at 10:22 AM

Joe Joe,
And your point here is?????

Let me guess....you are a homophobic N-zi....

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
<snip.... a New York Jew ...>
[Edited on 10-16-2010 by JoeJustJoe]

JoeJustJoe - 10-16-2010 at 11:57 AM

Motoged wrote: Joe Joe,
And your point here is?????

Let me guess....you are a homophobic N-zi....
------------

Not at all, and you have to remember who was trolled first. One thing you'll learn about Joe, myself, is I never troll attack first, but am quite capable taking care of myself and will find that button to press to make the attacker squeal like a pig. Did you see that long winded post Mr Bill made with all that tough guy talk and how macho he is? Then he comes back and claims it didn't bother him.

Quite frankly I'm bothered at Mr Bill insistence that we not bother to speculate about this case, and then he goes ahead and adds his two cents, and thinks he is going to bully others to not speculate.

Now back to speculating about this case because Cypress says, " It's looking like all the wild speculating was wrong and the wife was only telling the truth."

Really Cypress what do you base this on? There still is no body, no captured suspects, no forensic evidence that backs up Mrs Hartley inconsistent statements how the murder happened.

Oh yeah with got Stratfor that actually says this, " Stratfor says an American man reportedly shot to death on a Mexican border lake may have been a victim of mistaken identity." Straftfor solved this whole thing using Straftfor "tea leaves. According to "Straftfor it was a case of mistaken identity by lower level "Zeta" killers, and the Zeta boss is peeed that they killed David Hartley, and ordered the cover up and now get this, the "Zeta boss" is so upset at the killing he is going to deal with the lower level Zeta killers himself! Because the Zetas don't want to kill Americans for some reason?( have there been any other reports about the drug cartels hiding victims they killed? I always thought they were proud of their work.)

OK sounds like a solved crime, except for one thing. What's Stratfor's source?
They cite some anonymous source, and I'm sorry that's not good enough in a murder case across international borders.

I looked up with Strafor does and they are like a think tank that does intelligence for governments, fortune 500 companies and even well-healed individuals that they always want to join up and get a subscription to their reports. Stratfor basically predicts the future. ( using tea leaves?) Stratfor according to their latest reports predicts in the near future the collapse of China, and the reemergence of the USA as a dominate super power in the years to come.( they have felt because of the wars the US was losing it's power grip) Stratfor in the past made many false predictions.

http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/20101013_dispatch_insight_u...

[Edited on 10-16-2010 by JoeJustJoe]

wessongroup - 10-16-2010 at 12:07 PM

anyone like chili ......

Cypress - 10-16-2010 at 12:19 PM

I do.

desertcpl - 10-16-2010 at 12:42 PM

I will get the beer,, cant have Chili without it

Cypress - 10-16-2010 at 12:50 PM

Sounds like a winner! :tumble:

Dave - 10-16-2010 at 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
I'm only part Jewish.

What religion are your other parts?

All Mixed up

MrBillM - 10-16-2010 at 01:42 PM

My genes, not religion, come from a lot of different peoples. A crazy mix of Irish, English, French, Welsh and German (and who knows what else) in descending order. At least one antecedent who was informally adopted, so who knows what her lineage was. The only reason I know as much as I do is that once two (now only one) of my sisters practiced their Mormon religion with gusto and did all that genealogy stuff to go back and bring souls to Heaven. Or Whatever.

Depending on who you talk to, the mix (in my case) came out well or awful, but I'm unique.

JoeJustJoe - 10-17-2010 at 10:20 AM

How cute coordinated trolling. I have yet to understand the "Nomad' humor and troll like postings. It's a little weak if you ask me.
-------------------------------------
Back to covering the story. The wife gave a 2nd statement to Mexican authorities, and was quite helpful according to the article, but very little detail was given.( I don't know why Mexico doesn't just question Hartley's whole account of her version of the events?)

But anyway here is the sentence that caught my attention:

"Mrs. Hartley said that pirates shot her husband in the neck and that she barely escaped when they shot at her when she tried to retrieve him."

In another article Hartley said her Husband's brain was oozing out when she turned him over! (again another inconsistent statement:

Read the whole article:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ihp-2Vwhwa...

JoeJustJoe - 10-18-2010 at 02:34 PM

Check out this blog that uses a technique called " Statement Analysis" to find out if somebody is being deceptive or lying. I'm not sure in I buy into everything about this "Statement Analysis" but they do a very good job at analyzing Tiffany Hartley statements as obviously the blogger using this technique doesn't believe her, and wonders as I do is why the US media is treating Tiffany Hartley as the darling of American media? Where are the tough questions, and hard hitting panels discussing this case on cable:

Check it out, but it's rather long:

http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/