BajaNomad

BC and Garbage

Germanicus - 7-31-2004 at 08:57 PM

Hi Folks,
Does anybody know about how small and mid-size Cities handle their garbage problem and disposal?
i.e. El Rosario or Bahia de LosAngeles or Santa Rosalia or Mulege or Loreto or Todos Santos etc, do they have some kind of a garbage service?
I heard - and I hope its wrong - that small Cities do not have garbage services and just everybody is dumping his stuff wherever he wants > out in the boondocks.
What about these developments?
Lets say, there is a gringo subdivision of 200 homes or so, somewhere ouside a City.
How is the garbage disposal taken care of in such subdivisions?
Next question.
How is Waste Water taken care of?
Does everybody outside a City got to have a Sewer System or is it so that waste water is just running somewhere?
Thanx for any info.
Germanicus

Dude

jrbaja - 7-31-2004 at 09:08 PM

You really need to spend some time down here !
I think you may be in for a rude awakening at this point in time!!!:lol:
Things are changing here, but on a ma?ana schedule, which in my opinion, is going to change your entire opinion of what you want to do.
Take a week soon and see what's up! You just might not like what you see!:light:

Marie-Rose - 7-31-2004 at 09:23 PM

Todos Santos has weekly garbage pickup. Apparantly this is quite a new thing and the locals are gradually getting used to it. In the neighborhood we stayed, the service was regular and it was good to see the garbage cans out and full! I do believe the service does not extend out to the newer "gringo" areas.
Unfortunately there still is much garbage dumped in certain areas outside of town. I was also very pleased to see garbage pick up at Mermaid beach on the east cape. That area was extremely free of litter.:yes:

Loreto

capn.sharky - 7-31-2004 at 09:54 PM

Loreto has twice weekly pickup by the garbage trucks. The garbage is hauled out to a land fill north of town and away from the highway. The town also has a waste water treatment plant. It is next to the cemetary. When we clean our fish, we take the bones and waste products up to the land fill and dump them there. Fish are no longer allowed to be cleaned on the islands---so the beaches are cleaner than in the past. I see drink cans crushed and baled and heading north on big flatbeds so I would guess that recycling is starting in Baja.

Past and Present History of Trash in Loreto

Skeet/Loreto - 8-1-2004 at 05:20 AM

Prior to Baja Sur becoming a State, Trash along Hwy 1 and the Villege of Loreto was Bad. Trash was Dumped as close to Town as allowed. The present Ground North of Loreto was a Trash Dump, now Multi-Million dollar Homes set Atop that old Dump.To get to Rancho Sonrisa I had to haul off several old JunkCars that had been there for years. Dead Animals,cats and Dogs that were eliminated by Poison in the Hundreds where dumped along rhe Back Fence of "Rancho Sonrisa" and beyond!

After Gloria Davis Benziger became the First Congresswoman of the New State and the head of the Dept. Of Tourism, her first Act was to buy and Place 55 Gallon Drums on the Streets and started a Trash Pick up that was hauled North to a Dump.

A sewer system was started with Pumps placed near the Malacon which then Pumped the sewage to a Holding Pond to the North. Now there is a Treatment Plant near the Cemetary.

On my recent trip to Loreto I was dissapointed in the amount of Trash on the Streets and the Beaches. It is hoped that the Next Presidente of Loreto will spend some Money on Trash /Street Clean up .With the Limited Supply of Money, Clean up takes a Back Seat!

Might be that it will be necessary for the Envior-nuts to get together and have a "Loreto Clean-up Day". Time will Tell!!

Skeet/Loreto

"In God I Trust"

plastic bags on the barbed wire fence

bajagrouper - 8-1-2004 at 08:20 AM

in Baja there are not many land fills,garbage is simply taken a ways out of town and dumped on top of the ground,remember the crap blown all over the road south of GN.Punta Chavato was another good example,take the wrong road and follow the buzzards,hundreds of them up that beautiful canyon full of garbage.Another good one was after a nice meal in BOLA we walked out on there little pier to look at the stars and i pointed my flashlight down into the water and turds were being dumped right into the bay..well that stopped me from skinny dipping:fire:

It's not just a problem in Baja...

Mike Humfreville - 8-1-2004 at 09:58 AM

Here in Ventura county, CA I drive daily to Pasadena past two BIG landfills. Each are about a mile off highway 126 where I drive and miles before I get to either of them the Russian Thistle covering the sides of the highway are, themselves, covered with plastic bags, styrofoam cups and other crud. Once in a while the dump operators have a policing day but most of the time the rural rows of crops and tumbleweeds along the roadsides are covered with residules from the dump and the trucks bringing trash there. Where my smaller highway intersects Interstate 5 winding into the L.A. basin, hundreds of trash trucks swarm back into the inner city. Each of them is flying flags high...flags of plastic bags stuck to the expanded metal lids of their just-emptied trash containers. When we first moved here, 15 years ago, I noted several of these trucks all working for the same company. I wrote down the identification number of several and called the company. They acted very concerned but did nothing. Today the problem is just as bad.

It will only get worse as the teeming swarms of people continue to descend of Southern California. It's not just in Baja.

dug - 8-1-2004 at 10:01 AM

The Delegado (mayor) of Erendira started putting out drums and picking up trash with his personal business trucks a couple of years ago. It has taken some education to get the citizens to believe the cans will be emptied and the town will be cleaner but it is getting better. We donated a truck to the community to be used for that purpose and the trash is taken to a landfill. Erendira looks better with promise of more improvements

In Baja's case, it's all about education.

jrbaja - 8-1-2004 at 10:14 AM

The majority of people here in Baja want to promote tourism as a means for an income.
Many of the people in the rural areas I travel to feel the same way. They need something more than cutting wood to get some money for educating their children, so we are working on some trips and publicity.
The first thing I did upon finding out that they were interested in having visitors was discuss the trash "problem".
They had a dump just outside of town and most everything had blown everywhere. Ugly !!
I also pick up any trash I see when hiking. It was something they had become so used to, it wasn't any big deal to them. But, when some gringo comes along and starts picking up stuff out in the middle of nowhere, they got kind of curious.
And now, the trash is always picked up, the campgrouds are generally spotless when I go back, and the dump has been cleaned up and moved.
The guides now carry bags with them for further cleanup purposes and it was so easy and successful, I couldn't believe it.
They seem to like it better clean too. Go figure!:lol:

LaRibereņa - 8-1-2004 at 12:31 PM

There's something to be said for chubascos. After the two hurricanes last year on the East Cape, the whole area was a clean as a whistle. Lord knows where all that trash went. The mountains???

JESSE - 8-1-2004 at 02:15 PM

Germanicus, your sounding like a total Baja amateur, havent you traveled here at all?

No Jesse, he has not!

David K - 8-1-2004 at 05:38 PM

But, Germanicus has heard great things and is here on Nomad to learn more before moving to Baja and starting a tourist business... He's got guts!

San Felipe

bajalou - 8-1-2004 at 06:14 PM

San Felipe has regular minicipal trash pickup. Used to be large containers plaqce by the curb in each block, but now each home ahs a 55 gal drum which is emptied at least once a week. All taken to the dump - you racers know where that is - and every 3-4 weeks it is set on fire and burned. A couple or three rather smelly days. Lots of effort has been made to clean up some of the outlying areas with some success.

:biggrin:

David K - 8-1-2004 at 06:39 PM

San Felipe is more a city than a town and they don't even have a land fill operation with a bulldozer to bury the mess after it is dumped?

How many "cities"

jrbaja - 8-1-2004 at 08:04 PM

or towns in Baja have bulldozers David ? Most? Many? Some? None ? And what are they doing about trash in Bahia de los Angeles now that the population has tripled so far ?

Garbage Dumps

mcgyver - 8-1-2004 at 09:09 PM

OK, I had promised myself I would not get on my soapbox but now my credibility has been questioned, Now here is my statement and I will escort anyone personaly to prove it ! ( at their expense of course).
There are about 20 mostly gringo campos between San Felipe and Puertocitos and 1 big mixed village at KM 34 S. The dump there must cover 500 acres!
Across the highway,west of the campos on the mountain side of the highway there are at least 15 open dumps. of these only about 3 have holes or burn or make an attempt to keep the garbbage from blowing everywhere. Just out side San Felipe to the south there is a huge open dump. This is not counting the bags of trash dumped along the road just south of the marina on holidays. Puertocitos has a huge open dump,they try to keep it burned and have recently dozed some of it.
I will make it plain: I do not give a damm what the Mexicans do! it is there country after all!
But when it is posted that I was untruthful about Baja conditions I will reply!
And don't tell me about my spelling either, I know I cannot spell especialy when PO which I am now!!!
Most of the rest of Baja has this same condition in places and at times, when scrap iron prices are high all the wrecked and burned cars disappear from the highways
If you "Ain't been there -Done that, don't question those who have"
PS: I did not mention all the Recreational rigs that dump their holding tanks after holidays on the campo roads or anywhere anywhere else rather than hauling it back to the states, they could dig a hole and bury it.

Like I said,it is none of my business and I do not care what the Mexicans want to do or let some one else do but it is TRUE.

Now I am off of the soapbox, lets talk about some great trips or " Worst Stuck Stories", I love to hear them!

David K - 8-1-2004 at 11:16 PM

Hi Max, where was your credibility questioned? You are there building your home so your opinion has value. I agree it is a Mexican problem, as you say, but a lot of the trash is from all the new gringos living or vacationing there, yes? Since you and I are rare gringos who actually like to explore west of Mex. 5 (away from the gulf), I would hope to not see miles of garbage across the desert or dumped in the pits at the sulfur mine. Maybe each ejido (Delicias, Matomi, etc.) can work on this?

JR, Bahia de los Angeles has a 'city' dump a few miles away from town and the trash is burned... not sure if it is buried. That replaced the dumping in the desert at the mouth of the canyon the highway uses... relying on flash floods to clean the dump (into the bay)!

sin nombre - 8-1-2004 at 11:52 PM

JR,

I was just wondering how often you visit Bahia de los Angeles.

Garbage

mcgyver - 8-2-2004 at 06:27 AM

David, Refer to the original post on this subject!
There IS a large dumping area on the sulphur mine road on the north side and another at the intersection of the race course and the sulphur mine road..
I do not pretend to be an expert on all of Baja but the part that I do frequent regularly I can make definate statements about and that you can take as fact at the time. Off course like the road conditions from San Felipe to Hiway 1,
someone will post and say his rig was demolished by it! Others I can name and know personaly like FishingRich wonders what all the fuss is about, his and my Freeways are hell to others, not to say that conditions can not change with a little weather between trips. The residents of the far southern campos like to make hiway 5 sound like hell ( and I do Too)but THEY pull anything down that road they want too! For instance in June I had went out to Coco,s area for the day, heading back north that PM I saw something large approaching at about the Punta Final intersection, it was a Greyhound conversion R/V!! Not 5 miles closer to
Gonzaga I met a southbound 18 wheeler!
This was the only traffic I had met since leaving Coco's. No one will beleive this either but watch out for large objects in dust clouds! ( Especialy if you are in a Sammy or Geo.)

Germanicus - 8-2-2004 at 09:07 AM

Jesse, you got the answer from David K already. He knows me a lill as we have some contact and he is right.
Yes, that's why I'm here, to learn before making a move.
JR said it and I guess, everybody agrees in it: .
Well JR, that's right. But I do not want to be completely surprised by some ugly facts I will face.
I do know that Mexico(overall)is a Third World Country, poor,poorer,poorest.
But that has nothing to do with the culture of a country.
I know other poor countries > espacially in the "Old Communist World".
Those are keeping their country failrly clean > to support the tourism.
Well, Max/McGyver told me some 'stories' (I believe those stories, as he is somebody who knows) which are making me think, that I do not even want to make a trip to the Baja by aircraft and see it from above.
And if I'm reading Skeets posting, that fits into Max story very well.
Now I am trying to figure out other opinions.
That's why I posted this question here.
I am trying to figure out what I gotto to do in case I am thinking more serious about the RV Park we want to construct.
David said it, yes we got to have guts.
So far I am convinced that it is posssible to contsruct and operate a NICE,CLEAN, and beautiful RV Place.
I was told that won't work, as the customers i.e. place diapers into the sewer > got stucked > making trouble any given day.
That in case you are hiring Mexicans as employees, you never get rid of them again if needed.
Well, that's what I want to learn.
There are good RV places already.
They managed those problems > and I will talk to those owners.
Why shouldn't it possible for me?
There are gringo developments all over Baja. They managed this problem as well > somehow.
The trash-problem is only one problem.
There are others as well.
But if I have to take care of that problem on my own - when I'm doing what I wanna do - I gotto learn how that could be possible.
If I'm really buying 10 or 20 or 30 ac for an RV park, how many more ac do I have to buy for a dump ground to get rid of my own trash?
well I can figure that out and only if I see a place I can make up my mind about it.
There is also the "overall trash visibility problem" facing me.
We are somehow "Western European Folks" not used to see trash everywehere.
So, as my friend who is giving me good information told me:"You will see trash on your way down the highway everywhere. Lots of abandoned cars and so. Plastik flying around in the desert and hanging in the cactus."
Well, that's what I do not want to see for the rest of my life.
JR said: "Come here and have a rude awakening".
I am prepared for that.
But point is, I do not want to live on a dump ground (if it turns out that the entire Baja is one single dump ground) for the rest of my life.
JR , I will come and see as much as I can, but my opinion will not change.
If the Mexicans think it's their country and they can just convert it into a trash can, well that's their choice.
If they start to get smarter and do something for to boost tourism and for to earn some better money, then "it" might be going into the right direction.

Figuring out all of these problems is helping me making up my mind whether or not I wanna do what I wanna do.

I will place other "problems" I am aware of about the Baja Life in other postings and I do hope you guys are giving as much input as possible.
Thanx to all of you and have a nice (and clean) day
Germanicus

wilderone - 8-2-2004 at 09:21 AM

"Might be that it will be necessary for the Envior-nuts to get together and have a 'Loreto Clean-up Day'. "

Skeet, I think you have a real problem with anyone that will lift a finger to help alleviate "earthly" problems. Why would one have to be an enviro-NUT to look around and see a mess and clean it up - regardless of who created the mess? That's just common sense. Personally, I don't understand people who choose to live among rusted tin cans, rotting tires, plastic trash bags and plastic oil cans strewn all over, etc., but just because someone else makes another choice to CLEAN IT UP doesn't make that person a NUT! Why don't you coordinate a Loreto Clean Up Day yourself? Be an asset to your community. And lose the labels - they're outdated, feckless and useless rhetoric - you're only labeling yourself as unenlightened and disrespectful. Just do the right thing.

Sin Nombre

jrbaja - 8-2-2004 at 10:05 AM

I haven't been to Bahia de los Angeles in probably 12 years or so. My neighbors have family that live there full time and we have a standing invitation.
It is not a part of Baja that I am interested in seeing anymore. I did enjoy it before it became what it is now, just another gringo enclave like the one I live in in Rosarito.


Edited because, "Sheesh, it's been 12 or 13 years since we were there". My how time flies. I thought it was getting crowded back then !
These kind of places are so unlike Baja and a real Mexican village that personally, I think you can get more culture at Olvera Street.:lol::lol:

[Edited on 8/2/2004 by jrbaja]

Grover

jrbaja - 8-2-2004 at 11:00 AM

Prefriggencisely.

Bob H - 8-2-2004 at 01:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Germanicus
If they start to get smarter and do something for to boost tourism and for to earn some better money, then "it" might be going into the right direction.


I have noticed during our last couple of trips to Baja Sur that there is a much cleaner appearance than I remembered, say, five or six years ago. My wife and I recently camped for a couple of days along the shore of San Lucas cove. There was a Mexican couple there, probably in their early 30's, with a small child - tent camping just a couple of camp sites away from ours. After we had just set up camp and put our chairs out I immediately noticed the Mexican father of that little child walking along the shore collecting trash that had washed up. He did this for about and hour placing each arm load into the trash drums provided and then rejoined his family. That was impressive. And, I think you will see more of this from the younger Mexican generation, etc.
Bob H :)

JESSE - 8-2-2004 at 02:29 PM

Most Baja towns simply have a dump outside of town where they dump their trash, and i am sad to admit that many many Mexicans are not the most clean people on this earth.

David K - 8-2-2004 at 10:29 PM

JR, Bahia de L.A. is a small MEXICAN fishing town with very few full time gringos (Beach Bob, Herman, and Larry are the only ones I know). The food at the taco stands and restaurants is great, there is a variety of camping and motel options, and it is mostly a quiet place. I don't understand your opinion of it and it is no way like Rosarito, no way... Almost no English is spoken, so great to practice espanol!

one

Skeet/Loreto - 8-3-2004 at 06:18 AM

You have taken the use of a very common used Word and taken offense, which was not to be offensive but descriptive!!

In 1968 at the beautifull Bay at Escondio, south of Loreto, the Tourists would not carry away their Trash, so the Govt. moved them off the Beach and fixed it to where there "Was no more Beach" Result: Tripui, which is now no more!!

Changing the Nature of the Mexican people lies within their Ability to do So, not the Right of the Guest to to insist that they change for His self.

The Envior-Nuts who came to Loreto have demonstrated their desire to have a beautifull location and have kept their Places Clean{Such as Villas de Loreto}. Their actions have not changed the habit of the Mexican People, so if you People who cannot live as the Mexicano does, then go out and demonstrate by cleaning up Loreto!!

I now live near the City of Dos Palos California which is just as bad with Trash as Loreto! As i drive into Town , the Houses along Valeria are crammed with Old Cars and Junk.
Answer:If people do not have the "Common Sense" to Pick up their own Trash, How to you propose to teach them to do So?

The same Trash litters the Beaches of Lake Havasu City Az. to the point the Govt. had to come in and remove the Sand on one Beach because of E-coli!

It just seems to me that the People "Crying the most about "Clean Up" never take any Action,
I just happen to Accept People as they Are, Faults and All.

Skeet/Loreto

"In God I Trust"




wilderone - 8-3-2004 at 09:12 AM

"It just seems to me that the People "Crying the most about "Clean Up" never take any Action,
I just happen to Accept People as they Are, Faults and All"

Seems to me you disparage anyone's effort at clean up or anything else that's not self-serving. Last May I went to Las Pintas. I had also been there in November. In November the upper campsite was clean. In May, the place was burned down, and there was styrofoam plates and cups strewn about, tin foil, bottle caps, plastic bottles and cigarette butts laying about. I picked it all up and took it home because I cannot accept all people's faults. Two years ago I kayaked to several islands in BOLA and picked up trash on the 3 islands that I went to because it was an eyesore, a disappointment and many trash items are dangerous to wildlife which I have a deep respect for - more so than ignorant humans with their many faults. In recent years, I have paid money to maintain hiking trails, extract non-native plants in places where they do much harm and have revegetated an alpine lake on the Olympic Penin. which I had to backpack to. Last January I picked up a sackful of trash and broken glass at Agua Caliente hotsprings and brought it home and picked up a lot of trash at Laguna Hansen and put it in the new trash cans there. Anytime I go camping or hiking, I leave it cleaner than I found it. I only relate the above to prove you wrong. Complacency is a damaging human fault which I cannot accept.

That's highly commendable Wilder

jrbaja - 8-3-2004 at 09:55 AM

Now if only the rest of us could follow suit !! If nothing else, it sets a good example for many who would question the majority of our acts as gringos:lol:
David, I know you have been coming down here as long as I have. I think we were doing different things at the same times as I am so much older. One of the things that we used to do was go to these places when they were just that. Sleepy little MEXICAN fishing villages.
To call Bahia de los Angeles that nowadays is quite a stretch but I guess it's a matter of perspective. Compared to Rosarito, it is definitely "sleepier".
Most of the people that live in Mexico, have pretty much adapted to a more Mexican way of life which is why they are accepted and love it here.
It is the visiting tourists that create havoc. Most all of them bring their gas powered toys and feel free to use them wherever. There have been so many ATV accidents down here that I would be extremely surprised if everyone on this board didn't have a story.
And then there is the gringo attitudes. Many are afraid of, or look down on their Mexican neighbors. And it shows. This isn't just Bahia de los Angeles of course.
And then there is the drinking. It seems as though most every tourist that comes to Baja loves to get drunk. It's vacation time, no? I understand completely.
Unfortunately, when you go to the gringo enclaves, there's a whole bunch of em getting drunk. And nine times out of ten, there's some character with a lamp shade on his head, starting fights, or trying to blow off fireworks or some other idiotic thing that wouldn't be done if not drunk. But it's Mexico, what the heck. Right ?
I like to think that the people I see acting this way don't act this way at home but watching the news from up there really makes me wonder!
True, it's not just Bahia de los Angeles, that's just the most famous and largest of many. But the same things are occuring at all of them.
Which is why I personally don't enjoy going to them anymore. Maybe because I now live in one. hahahahahaha
Part time !!:bounce:

bajalera - 8-3-2004 at 10:23 AM

Seems to me Bob H got it right, back there where he said there was less trash than there used to be. It's obvious that Mexicans are working on the problem (at least in the Sur).

There are now trash cans along Highway One, with signs that point out their locations before you get to them (and Gringos aren't the only ones using them). You also see work crews picking up litter alongside the road.

There's been a noticeable change of attitude over the past five years or so, even though Mexico doesn't have unlimited funds to devote to waste management.

bajalera

One

Skeet/Loreto - 8-3-2004 at 10:48 AM

I Appauld you for your Efforts to clean up after those that do not have the Sense or desire to do the Same. But to bad mouth a Country and its people for their Culture, Speaks of "I am right, you are Wrong" Theory.

I hiked the Sierras for many years and left because of the Pollution of a Group of 30 to 40 Sierra Club Members, Dancing, Drinking, Swimming in the Creek all Nude while smoking DOPE! All under the quise of doing an inspection of the Trails to measure the yearly depth of that Trail.

It is my suggestion that you go to Loreto, then out to the dump, contact Alex and Ericka and watch as they go through the Trash looking for Cans to sell for Propane for their Family.{ages 13 and 14}.

Try spending some time an effort with the Young Children , demonstrating to them their need to dispose of their Trash.

On my recent Trip to Loreto I talked to an "Older Gentleman} who is trying to set up a Trash Collection and proper Dump in La Purismua, San Ysrido. He is going to take a small Front Loader, dig Holes and teach the Locals how , He was a Sewer Plant Tech. in the States.

The Envior-Nuts in the States have been successful in many Locations, My wife has expended over $75,000.00 to clean up a Piece of Property that nither her Father or Grandfather had anything to do with it being a USD Site{not Tax Money}.

She did that because it was the Right thing to do.

You should spend more of your time with the Young People, teaching, that is the way you can make inroads!

An effort to be Good Neighbors is a Start!

Skeet/Loreto
Anon The Preacher

"In God I Trust"

burro bob - 8-3-2004 at 10:57 AM

Germanicus
Your questions, while naive, are good ones. Keep asking. You can see from the responses here that you have hit on a real hot button topic.
No, Lower California is not all one big dump. There are lots of unspoiled places left. But anywhere close to a population center you will find garbage.
The people are becoming much more conscience of the trash. Mexicali and San Felipe both are trying very hard to clean things up. The younger generation is becoming very eco aware.
You will only be able to control land that you own. You won't be able to change the actions of your neighbors with words alone. Some campos around here do a good job of collecting garbage, El Dorado Ranch in particular should be singled out for the responsible way they gather and dispose of their garbage. Other campos just have some vague area, usually across the highway, where they dump.
I live in the poblado section of Ejido Plan Nal. Agraio about 4 lots away from an aroyo. They are quarrying red dirt from there. As they dig out an area some of the locals, Mexican and Gringos alike, are dumping their garbage there. My neighbor, an Ejido member, along with several others complained at one of the Juntas (Ejido Meetings). They werte told there already is a law against dumping there and he should just call the cops (something no Mexican would ever do unless it involved a dead body). The Ejido doesn't have any money to hire a trash cop. When the pile get big enough we'll just burn it ourselves.
No one here on this board will deny there is a trash problem in BC, it's just that most of us can look past it.
burro bob

Germanicus - 8-3-2004 at 12:36 PM

burro bob, here comes an even far more 'naive' question (you might call it silly)
as I want to construct an RV-Park, the problem covers me quite automaticly(not:automatically) What to do with the trash of a single day?
Having maybe 30 or 50 'lots' where an RV can be parked, that collects quite an amount of trash every day.
Now my question:
Is the "Mexican State" (whoever that might be, the Feds or the Locals) willing to sacrifice some land for converting it into a dumpground for everybodys use > benefit to the locals as well and I am managing that dumpground by providing a dozer, opening what needs to be done, filling in and covering again after (?) years.
Yes I know, that depends on where I am, what town.
I mean I would like to hear your opinion if that MIGHT be possible in general in some communities.
Hey I'm not shooting at you if your opinion is only half true.
Just let me know your 'feelings out of the guts', o.k.?
To my opinion it doesn't take much to convince a major that proper trash handling is the best the community can get.
It boost the tourism, it makes tourist stay for some time and spend money etc. etc.
Of course I can understand JR > where are the 'sleepy little Mexican fishing villages' ???
Nobody can turn the wheel of time backwards.
Those sleepy towns are gone, the world goes foreward, never backwards.
This is what the Lawyer of the Mexican Consulate in San Antonio told me: "The Feds in Mexico City do not have any interest in the Baja at all. That's why so many Gringo settlements do whatever thay want to do, and do have all the services, Police, Roadmaintenance crews etc. etc. on their own". They paved the roads, they belong to them", he said. "Some day, all the Mexican guys from the Baja have left for California and most Californians are living at the Baja. So what?" he asked.
"That's the modern migration taking place all over the world". he added.
Well, and he might be right.
So looking back > ??? that's not the thing to do.
Looking foreward, facing the future is the way to handle things, I guess.
I am 60 years old but I am not looking back at all.
The past is lost, the future can be gained.
O.K., guys let me know what you know about building the future and getting rid of the trash in a modern way in BC, will you?
Have fun so far!
Germanicus

According to the number of new developments

jrbaja - 8-3-2004 at 01:39 PM

I reckon there's going to be some rules/laws made regarding the disposal of trash from these places.
It would be interesting to find out how Comitan deals with it ! Maybe somebody on here knows??
I know how many of the motorhome people deal with it, look on any fence.
Recycling is a key issue and needs to be planned for in advance. It takes retraining for many households to get used to throwing plastic in one container and glass in another, etc. But, it must be mandatory with fines imposed.
With this type of plan on paper and followed through with, it will surely expedite some aspects of what you are about to become involved with.
You may even want to look into solutions others in all parts of the world have come up with. Or invent your own!
The folks down here are willing to listen to all ideas as a rule.
Think recycling, composting, and compaction!:light:

Herb - 8-3-2004 at 02:44 PM

David, I think you are describing what Bahia de Los Angeles used to be. It is definitely not what I observed when I was there about a month ago. While there may not be a lot of full-time residents, it was the largest concentration of gringos relative to mexicans that I saw anywhere between San Quintin and Mulege. As for almost no English being spoken, In two days there I never heard any gringo utter a single word of Spanish, even in stores or restaurants.

With that said, however, it is still a pleasant place. The people, Mexican and Gringo alike, are mostly all friendly. There's no traffic and it is still quiet relative to places like Rosarito. The loudest sound I heard while sleeping was the snoring of someone in my cabana.

I think it may be a south vs. north perspective. Compared to most other communities large enough to be considered a "town" in the norhtern state of Baja California (where you spend most of your Baja travel time), Bahia de Los Angeles remains relatively unchanged.

But compared to most similar size communities in Baja California Sur (where JR spends considerable time) Bahia de Los Angeles would almost appear to be a smaller version of Alta California's Los Angeles.
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
JR, Bahia de L.A. is a small MEXICAN fishing town with very few full time gringos (Beach Bob, Herman, and Larry are the only ones I know). The food at the taco stands and restaurants is great, there is a variety of camping and motel options, and it is mostly a quiet place. I don't understand your opinion of it and it is no way like Rosarito, no way... Almost no English is spoken, so great to practice espanol!

sin nombre - 8-3-2004 at 03:26 PM

"...But compared to most similar size communities in Baja California Sur (where JR spends considerable time) Bahia de Los Angeles would almost appear to be a smaller version of Alta California's Los Angeles...."

Say WHAT?! I don't think so, Herb. I guess if all the residents would be there at one time, I doubt their number would reach 1,000...(I can find out though, just for fun).

To compare it to Los Angeles and its MILLIONS of residents, is way off base. Where is even the nearest traffic signal to Bahia? You would have to drive about 5 hours in either direction to get to one. I dont think comparing Bahia de los Angeles to Los Angeles CA. is at all justified.

[Edited on 8-3-2004 by sin nombre]

But to compare it to

jrbaja - 8-3-2004 at 03:37 PM

San Luis Gonzaga, San Bartolo, San Juan de la Costa, El Cajete, or El Triunfo, which are a few of places I generally try to frequent, there is a major difference in "sleepy villageness", the amount of Spanish being spoken, and the manners of everyone in general.:light:

And the reason I don't like it there anymore isn't because of the residents, no matter how many there are. It's the countless others that bring their toys n booze n attitudes n stuff that steers my van to the right when passing that turnoff.
Funny how that word turned up there. Get it ?:lol:

[Edited on 8/3/2004 by jrbaja]

sin nombre - 8-3-2004 at 03:41 PM

P.S.

If you were there about a month ago, that sounds about the time of year when the college students head down for summer classes. There are two Marine Biology "schools" in Bahia, and they are usually pretty packed with students. Glendale Community College has a building there, as does another Southland college. That may have been why it appeared to be so "crowded" in Bahia when you were there. The students like to walk in groups down to the restaraunts, taco stands, etc...

Yep,

jrbaja - 8-3-2004 at 03:44 PM

sounds like a sleepy little Mexican village to me alrighty!:lol::lol::lol:

Germanicus - 8-3-2004 at 04:06 PM

folks, may I kindly remind you that I was asking about your opinion whether or not a community might 'spend' some land for a landfill (if none is around) ??
Can't see what my question has to do with 'students walking in a crowd to the next Taco stand' in Bahia de LosAngeles.
>> Well they have to get rid of the converted taco after some time, but the question remains: Where to dump the converted taco?

David K - 8-3-2004 at 04:39 PM

JR, I never said 'sleepy', you did. I said "Mexican fishing town".

Herb, I mentioned that there are few FULL time gringo residents, not vacationers or students... Unlike Rosarito or L.A. . JR first compared Bahia with Rosarito and now with L.A., neither is at all true... what kind of bamboo are you two smoking?:O

Sin Nombre, I guess we both see things through rose colored glasses?!

Bahia (de los Angeles) has grown (a little), and I understand it isn't the village of 60 people like I first saw in 1967, anymore. However, it remains a small town whereas in the same period Rosarito beacame a damn big city!

No, I don't work for the Bahia de los Angeles Chamber of Commerce...

Very true DK

jrbaja - 8-3-2004 at 04:48 PM

And I'm glad most of you like BOLA so much. Cut's down on the crowds in the places I like!:lol:
As far as Rosarito, yep it's big, gettin bigger and focusing on tourism.
And I would be willing to bet that not one person that's knocking Rosarito has spent any time here. Because it really can be a lot of fun and great food.
If that's what your into. Just like beaches covered with ATV's or a bunch of drunken gringos. Many like that atmosphere.
I'm here because of convenience to the border. Carol wants to be close to her family.
Personally, I bought in down south!

El Jefe - 8-3-2004 at 06:23 PM

Germanacus, perhaps it would help to know how the dumps (refuse disposal sites) of Cabo San Lucas, San jose del Cabo and Todos Santos/Pescadero develpoed into the better run municipal dumps that they are. Dumps were pretty random in the cape when I first started going there, but over the years there was enough public and private outcry that eventually they became organized affairs. They are well off the road; Cabo's and TS's off of HWY 19 and San Jose's off of Hwy 1 on the Palo Escopito road, and all three are pretty good setups. I don't know who could give you the history, but the TS one is probably the most recent.
By the way, I have a great piece of property at Playa Los Cerritos that would make a fine trailer park. 7+ hectares near the beach. Tom

Germanicus - 8-4-2004 at 04:24 PM

E J, read the u2u
I am defenately interested > and not just a blowing hot air air.

Another well known Nomad (don't wanna say his name here without he agrees) was also offering help to find some property.
I highly appreciate any help!
Take care guys and stay cool!
Germanicus

burro bob - 8-5-2004 at 12:51 PM

Germanicus
Sorry to take so long to respond. I don't get on line every day.
As someone already said most comunities have a place they want people to dump. Getting them to dump there is another question.
Having you operate a dump with your equipment would have a lot to do with how well you get along with the local officials. I think they would be receptive to the idea.
I'll use El Dorado Ranch as example of what I think is good practice.
They have their own trash collection area in every development. Then they hire there own trash collector to haul it to the leagal city dump. The guy gets paid by the Ranch plus gets first dibs on a lot of good junk.
San Felipe does have a bulldozer for the dump, or at least they did. It caught on fire several weeks back. The other problem is they don't have a pit so mostly they just shove piles around with it.
If you set up a trailer park and keep it and the area clean and the guy down the steet has a dump for an RV park it won't take long for him to see the financial incentive to clean up.
burro bob

Germanicus - 8-6-2004 at 12:08 PM

Yea, Bob, that was somehow my idea as well, just the way you say it.
Big question is always how cooperative the local government is.
But I do think, if you are offering something, you'll get a good response.
I had the idea to hire a trash collector anyway to do the job every morning.
I will get him a tractor and a trailer and he is collecting the trash from all over the place.
So somebody is getting a job already.
His wife (maybe) will be hired for keeping the so called 'washhouse' clean.
A building containing restrooms, showers, washing machines and sinks for dishes.
So there is the next person with a job.
But back to the headline>garbage.
I'm guessing, if the community got a dumpground already, maybe I can help to 'develop' it, extend it, as I have to have a bulldozer anyway for to construct the RV place.
sometimes it might be that (a smaller) community is happy about any help to extend or develop or, or,or such a dump ground.
So there will be another guy having a job by operating the dozer.
Then I need some folks at the entrance / reception.
There is something I heard (but I will make that to another post as well) about employ Mexicans.
Somebody told me that you hardly can get rid of employees if needed.
Is that true?
Maybe somebody else knows about that?
Take care guys
Germanicus

Your far out ideals

mcgyver - 8-6-2004 at 08:27 PM

:bounce: I would kind of like to be there the day you drive up to the Mexican customs in your 13 ton gravel truck towing your bulldozer and see the looks on their faces when you tell them you are coming to clean up their country! Didn't you guys try this in Europe and started WW2??:?::?::?::?::?:

Germanicus - 8-7-2004 at 10:20 AM

can anybody here please tell me the connection between cleaning up a place in BCS and WWII ??????????????????
Cleaning up a place where I want to live is natural for me.
Keeping that place clean is also natural to me.
>Maybe not for others as my idea gets more criticism as I expected, but anybody who wants, can live in his own excrements and stir them from time to time for to preserve them for tomorrows lunch break > I don't care!
I am not like this and I will keep any place in the world where I am living clean.
No matter where in the world that might be.
But what the heck has that to do with WWII ?
Germanicus

DOGS roaming around...

Anonymous - 8-7-2004 at 01:22 PM

...nobody has made mention about the dogs roaming all over the place. Last night calle Francisco I. Madero in Loreto where I have my shop was clean as a whistle. trash barrels with their trash in place. this morning at 5:15 a.m. when I came back to get some stuff to launch some boats, trash barrels overtunred and garbage all over the streets. The dogs knock them over and hunt for food. This happens too much and makes a huge mess of everything.

fly fishin' Pam

Pam

capn.sharky - 8-7-2004 at 03:52 PM

I had the same problem....but no more. Tie a rope around the trash can and secure it to a post and the dogs will not be able to knock it over. We have two Rottweillers living next door and they can't do it---and they are big. They do, however, leave us a little gift on the ground from time to time. Actually, its a BIG gift. Mexico without stray dogs would be like
Santa Monica without homeless bums.:biggrin:

Germanicus - 8-7-2004 at 07:48 PM

off topic: If there is no fishing in heaven, I'm not going > original by Capt. Sharky.
Notonly because of no fishin, I do not want to go to heaven.
In heaven I will meet all the boring guys, like all the popes and the nuns(cant make no love to them)all the brave and good and boring guys.
I wanna go to hell to meet Stalin, Hitler, Saddam (if he makes it before me), most of the priests(at least those who had their fun with the nuns).
Dean Martin. Franky Boy and all the rat pack guys. JFK of course for all his cheating on Jacky will be there.
Marylin? may be she's there with JFK?
I wanna meet Churchill and > yes, DjordschDubbeljuh, if he makes it to hell because of all his lies.
Yes, and, well, I have my doubts that hell lets me in.
I am a firefighter here and they might think that I'm just coming to fight the fire.
So I'm thinking about quitting as a firefighter > for my entry-pass.
Have fun with your imagination!
Germanicus

Germanicus - 8-10-2004 at 09:25 AM

back to business > means topic.
Against stray dogs there is some kinda easy solution.
You can by certain chemicals dogs simply hate , > don't know any brand name but if you - anonymous pam - are interested I can ask my friends in France, they are using it permanetly as they are running an RV Park and do have the same problem.
Or you can simply try salt > this orange coloured salt the butchers are using.
It's cheap and it gets into the dogs claws and itches.
They will learn fast.
An you can poor it between the garbage.
bet'ya the dogs don't like eatin' it.
With 'salty greetings' (don't take it too serious)
Germanicus