BajaNomad

Emergency evacuation from Guerrero Negro

shari - 10-14-2010 at 08:17 AM

One of our family mottos is "Everything happens for a reason". When Sirenita was recovering from a difficult birthing in the Guerrero Negro hospital, a nurse used a blood pressure cuff that was inaccurate and showed her blood pressure much higher than it really was...which caused the doctor to keep her in the hospital another day...we were really bummed as we wanted out of there so were very glum all day...I tried to get a voluntary release but NO GO!

About noon, a nurse came and whisked me away to the emergency room where they had just admitted Bill Gilmour who was vacationing at San Franciscito. He had severe abdominal pain and didnt speak any spanish and no doctors or nursed spoke any english.

So I managed to help out by determining his medical history...which was very...colourful and current condition..symptoms etc. They took some X-rays and were VERY concerned. They had no idea what the probem was...maybe burst apendics but not likely at his age...they needed to operate to see what was going on in there but didnt want to risk it because of the shape his heart was in. Luckily a good amigo of mine..the coroner in GN took me into the hall after seeing the xray and said "Shari, you gotta get this guy outta here...NOW cause he wont make it if you dont". Oh crap...after nearly losing my daughter a few days back and sleeping (sort of) on the hospital floor for days...I wasn't in the best of shape to organize a life saving effort.

But I rose to the task and began to investigate how to get Bill Medi-vac'd out of GN. He had Kaiser insurance who after an hour of phoning around said they could send an air ambulance.

The problem was that is was then after 2:00 in the afternoon so by the time they arranged for a plane, it would have been too late...GN runway has no lights and socks in with fog around 4:00 so he wouldnt have gotten out till the next day...keeping in mind what the coroner said...i conferred with the patient who had been stabilized and asked what he thought of my Plan B..which was to hire a plane from GN...he gave me a thumbs up so being sunday the office was closed and nobody had their number so I went to Capt. Chongs house to see what could be done.

His wife runs the business and she is one efficient lady. Within an hour they had a plane that could take a stretcher ready to roll... the GN doctor gave him some more pain medecine and a new IV..I called the Red Cross who came in their spanking new fancy ambulance and Bill and his companion buddy were in the air and TJ bound by 3:30!

They were met by another ambulance 2 hours later at the TJ airport and met at the secondary inspection station by a USA ambulance and taken to the closest hospital. He made it and his buddy flew back the next morning to GN to retreive his car.

Some things I learned were...medi-vac air ambulances are slow to respond because they have to get clearance, planes ready etc. so unless it is arranged before noon, the patient probably wont get flown out that day. In an emergency where time may save a life, i wouldnt hesitate to just charter a local plane, particularly in mid baja where there are no big airports for medivac planes to fly in and out of.

Next time, I would just go straight to plan B and not waste time. The cost of the plane was 55,000 pesos or $4,500..a hefty ticket but nothing if you can save a life...medivac was $14,000. It looks as if the insurance may pay for it too as it was a commercial airline evacuation.

So after that ordeal...we werent so glum...we were happy we were there to lend a hand. I left my card in emergency and said if they ever need help translating to just call.

Any of you who vacation or live in mid baja might want to have Aero Guerrero Negro phone # in thier wallet by their medical info....just in case. They could have flown right into san franciscito and saved him having to travel over that awful road in his delicate condition!
Their number is 615-157-0132 or (0137)...tell em shari sent ya!
Here is Bill and his buddy loading into the new ambulance...they dont charge but ask for a donation!

08 11 05 008.JPG - 49kB

DENNIS - 10-14-2010 at 08:25 AM

Right-on, Shari...ya done real good, Kiddo. I'm proud of you.

A curious question about his Kaiser insurance....was it Senior Advantage or a different model? I have Senior Advantage and would be really impressed if I knew thew would pay for this or an equally expensive service.

Oggie - 10-14-2010 at 08:29 AM

Thanks for the story and great information.

Diver - 10-14-2010 at 08:41 AM

Shari to the rescue ...... again.
Shari you ROCK !!! :yes:

karenintx - 10-14-2010 at 08:57 AM

Shari, I am sure the family is very grateful for your service and the kindness you gave to their loved one. It is part of your DNA...you are a very kind person and hope to meet you one day.

Just curious...what did the GN coroner see on the x-ray that concerned him so much that the doctors in the hospital didn't see?

Keep us posted if you hear from Bill. Sending him "get well" thoughts.

shari - 10-14-2010 at 09:11 AM

I wont go into what Bill's medical history is...lets just say that the doctors and the coroner looking over their shoulder were very concerned about Bill's heart condition and he had alot of other health probems as well.

The doctors all saw it...problem was they werent prepared to operate on a patient like that (over 70) where complications were likely to arise...plus they really didnt know what was causing the abdominal pain...it could have been several things so they said he would have to go to a bigger hospital like ensenada...so what the coroner suggested to me was they just get him to the states ASAP.

I havent heard from them to see what he had..hope he is OK..he was one tough guy!!

windgrrl - 10-14-2010 at 09:40 AM

You are amazing, girl!

oladulce - 10-14-2010 at 09:58 AM

Do I understand correctly- Aero Guerrero Negro will land on dirt runways ?

That would be HUGE!

We maintain International Evac insurance, Binational Emergency membership, US insurance, a satellite phone since we rarely have Telcel service and Skype is unpredictable on sat. internet, and have a few contingency plans in case of emergencies but the hitch in all of our well-laid plans is how would we get from here in the boonies to where an evac plane could land and could we make the 3hr drive on the washboard and potholed roads to the nearest hospital??

I never thought about using a local, or semi-local, charter service.

I've picked up some useful info on Nomad over the years, but this by far may be the most valuable ever. I can't thank you enough for your story Shari.

And I love how your coroner friend told you "you have to get this guy out of here". Nothing like a little pressure.

Buen trabajo :dudette:

TheColoradoDude - 10-14-2010 at 10:07 AM

Your an amazing person! Bien hecho!

toneart - 10-14-2010 at 10:12 AM

Wow! What a week you had. Good work! I have printed out the information for my wallet and also added this sting to "my favorites" in The BajaNomad.

Thank you, Shari!
Tony

:light:

David K - 10-14-2010 at 10:25 AM

Thank you Shari!:bounce:

Osprey - 10-14-2010 at 10:26 AM

There was sure some kind of Karma at work to put you near that trouble. Your valor is special in light of what you had just been through. Makes me want to come to Assuncion and fall off a bar stool. Way my luck's been runnin' you'd be out town, the only plane around would be a bi plane owned by a drunk from Rhyolite with the trade name of "Scary Air".

bajalou - 10-14-2010 at 10:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Right-on, Shari...ya done real good, Kiddo. I'm proud of you.

A curious question about his Kaiser insurance....was it Senior Advantage or a different model? I have Senior Advantage and would be really impressed if I knew thew would pay for this or an equally expensive service.


I think they do - but you have to call Kaiser to make sure.

Mexitron - 10-14-2010 at 11:35 AM

Wow, way to go shari! And good info to know as well. You're a stud!

DENNIS - 10-14-2010 at 11:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by oladulce
And I love how your coroner friend told you "you have to get this guy out of here". Nothing like a little pressure.




I've heard that suggestion from a few doctors here as well. When the going gets tough, they'll tell patients here, especially if they have insurance in the states, to get up there and be attended to. The doctors are the first ones to admit to the differences in medical care between here and there.

k-rico - 10-14-2010 at 11:48 AM

Good work!!

I'll add the Aero Guerrero Negro phone # to the emergency phone number list I carry in my wallet.

Skeet/Loreto - 10-14-2010 at 11:52 AM

Dennis and others.

I am going to be very Positive and suggest that people in Baja Sur go to their Local Hopspital for care.

I have been around enough to know that Constitution has excellent Medical care and Doctors, same for La Paz. Loreto is new but coming along Great.

I know that most of you are smart enough to go in and Observe what is going on at a Hospital. Go to the General Hospital in constitution, tell them who you are and that you want to check them out. You will be surpised!!

Now I will agree that they are Hospitals and Doctors that do not have the latest MRI"s and fancy Gadgets but the many doctors I have dealt with have more COMPASSIONATE that many in the States.

fOR ANYONE WHO IS GOING TO LIVE IN bAJA sUR, THAT LONG WAIT AND FLIGHT BACK TO THE STATES COULD MEAN YOUR lIFE. PLEASE THINK ABOUT AND CHECK OUR ALL THE MEDICAL Facilites.

Skeet

shari - 10-14-2010 at 11:58 AM

Oladulce...yes, this IS big...I learned so much about air-vacs and was looking forward to sharing it with you all...especially those in the central baja...the fish and surf camp folks. I wasnt looking for praise (but it sure feels good to get it!!) but this info could save someones life.

The fact that Aero GN is a registered airline is helpful...only drawback is if you want a doctor or medic to accompany you...you pay extra. The owners of the company are very professional..stop by and see them at their office across the street from Malarrimo and tell em Shari sent ya! They would be happy to answer your questions about available planes they operate.

I'm told I have pretty good bedside humour....I got Bill to smile when I told him the news about being home for dinner!!

08 11 05 005.JPG - 45kB

Skeet/Loreto - 10-14-2010 at 12:26 PM

Thank you Shari for taking charge and doing that good work.

Skeet

BajaGringo - 10-14-2010 at 12:34 PM

Great job Shari - hope all ends well!

Skeet/Loreto - 10-14-2010 at 12:38 PM

shari:
I feel sure that you know about it but just a reminder that the AL BAHR Shriners in San Diego and Tiajuna have a daily service for anyone going to the Shriners Hospital in the States,
they also treat the Kids for Free if they are accepted.

Bajahowodd - 10-14-2010 at 01:23 PM

You done real good, Shari. Kudos!

I must add a comment, having read your story. How wise is it for someone in their 70s, with what appears to be a serious heart condition, and a host of other medical problems that you mentioned, to put themselves in such a remote location, and without at least having some form of pre-paid medivac coverage?

shari - 10-14-2010 at 01:44 PM

good question Howodd....I think anyone of any age with medical issues should have insurance and a good medivac plan for their area.

One problem that came up with Kaiser was that they made it sound like he HAD to go to their hospital to be covered...and the patient wanted to go to the closest hospital stateside and did just that. When you are in cardiac arrest, or bleeding to death or any critical condition..minutes can save your life.

It will be interesting to see how much Kaiser covered...I got them official receipts for everything...plane...ambulance. I hope I hear from them to hear how things worked out.

Pescador - 10-14-2010 at 03:32 PM

Good Med Evacuation insurance only runs around 350 a year and is a good investment. I started evaluating these policies when my wife was being treated for Cancer and we knew that if she had complications that air evac was the only way to go. If you spend any time at all in the smaller hospitals like Guerro Negro or Santa Rosalia, you become immediately aware why this is such a good buy.

knuckles - 10-14-2010 at 04:22 PM

"I want a girl with a mind like a diamond"
"I want a girl who knows what's best"

"I want a girl with the right allocations"
"Who's fast and thorough and sharp as a tack"

I can hear this song in my head right now... Nice work Shari!

Mulegena - 10-14-2010 at 05:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Osprey
There was sure some kind of Karma at work ... Makes me want to come to Assuncion and fall off a bar stool.

and there's just such a chair a'waiting at El Tidepool with Adrian as your host mixologist and killer chef! You fall off your barstool, my three-legged doggie Suzi-girl will lick yer face in lieu of CPR. Makes me want to get back there and be the chief bottlewasher again-- good times. Would love to meet you, Osprey, and get a glimpse into the mind that can turn out those wild short stories.

motoged - 10-14-2010 at 05:38 PM

Uhhhh, that would be "Studette":saint:

Quote:
Originally posted by Mexitron
Wow, way to go shari! And good info to know as well. You're a stud!

Nan&D - 10-14-2010 at 06:25 PM

Shari, your story illuminates the thoughts and concerns of many of us new to living in Baja.
Thanks for your caring and education.
Nan

Something Works in Mysterious Ways

Gypsy Jan - 10-14-2010 at 06:25 PM

I will leave it to you all Nomads out there to fill in your favorite definition of "Something", but believe me, it ain't nothing.

Shari, I have followed the journal of life in Bahia Asuncion with your family that you have shared on Nomad and I always thought to myself, "These are good people, it sounds like a beautiful place, maybe someday."

Then I read your latest report and I am blown away.

For you, to be there when a stranger is in the direst of need and to set aside the personal concerns weighing you down with the recent events in your family and to wade in with full heart and both hands to find a solution for this immediate emergency, that is just something that they make TV movies about.

So, for me, "maybe someday" has become a goal; I want to meet you and your family.

BajaBlanca - 10-14-2010 at 06:42 PM

right on, Shari, thanks so much for giving the details of how to proceed.

bajaguy - 10-14-2010 at 07:13 PM

This is what I have through my medical insurance plan:

http://www.medexassist.com/individuals/GAN/default.aspx?

shari - 10-14-2010 at 07:15 PM

thank you Gypsy Jan from the depths of my heart. We look forward to sharing stories around the campfire. You would have laughed to see me running from my daughters bed to the emergency ward and back every few minutes in between taking and making phone calls. Poor sirena just shook her head...

throughout my life, I have always had great faith in the grand plan and have found myself right where I needed to be...thank my guardian angels for that...sometimes I feel like a puppet..that some force is just moving me around to where I am supposed to be...fine with me...I have surrendered to the force and trust in it. I have avoided death in a few circumstances by listening to my inner voice and altering plans so I have seen how things work in the universe and have faith things happen for a reason and not to question it....oh geez ...I'm blubbering.

I'm glad the force led me to Asuncion that's for sure!!!

[Edited on 10-15-2010 by shari]

ELINVESTIG8R - 10-14-2010 at 08:29 PM

GREAT JOB SHARI - HUGS GIRL!



Bob H - 10-14-2010 at 08:49 PM

Wow, Shari, you are the greatest!
Bob H

shari - 10-14-2010 at 08:59 PM

thanks all for your kind words... the point i wanted to stress is that if one needs to be evacuated quickly...sometimes your medivac coming from the states just takes too darn long...so consider a back up plan like a local airlines and hope your policy will cover it.

It's hard to make sound decisions when you are in shock or stressed and good to have an idea of what to do before things go very wrong.

What I thought was important was that the local guys can land in remote areas so it might be wise if you know you need an airvac to not even bother going to the hospital and wasting precious hours...just call the plane and get out...although you might need a hospital report to claim the plane fare later on your insurance...but if it was a matter of life and death, I think I would choose speed over worrying about possible insurance coverage.

wilderone - 10-15-2010 at 08:36 AM

Great job, Shari
"Red Cross who came in their spanking new fancy ambulance"
so the next time you see that can, donate. The life you save may be your own.

astrobaja - 10-15-2010 at 08:40 AM

Shari, awesome, you were a real life guardian angel to that man!

lizard lips - 10-15-2010 at 09:05 AM

Shari,

Great work. How is your daughter and the new born?

SiReNiTa - 10-15-2010 at 11:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by lizard lips
Shari,

Great work. How is your daughter and the new born?


he's BIG and I'm sleepy!! hehe we are both doing very well ty, I have not done much posting since most of the time my hands are occupied but all is well so far!

I'm one proud girl to have a mama such as mine, and I can only hope to be as good with Izaak as she is with me!

It takes time and lots of patience to get through the systems down here but where there is a will there is a way! Good job mom! :wow:

DENNIS - 10-15-2010 at 11:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SiReNiTa
I'm one proud girl to have a mama such as mine, and I can only hope to be as good with Izaak as she is with me!



You'll do just fine. You've had a good teacher. :)

Barry A. - 10-15-2010 at 12:49 PM

Shari and Sirenita---------You both are awesome!!!!!! congrats to both of you.

Barry

Tiomiguel - 10-16-2010 at 10:35 AM

Good job Shari, You are very special and I know how you feel.

Initially you say to yourself, why get involved, but the old rule of helping out just can't be ignored. The rule that we have is that when in a situation like that, the hardest thing to do is the best thing.

You go girl, good for you taking responsibity and Bondying up to meet the challenge of the day.
I am extremely proud of you and keep up the good work.

shari - 10-16-2010 at 10:39 AM

gracias hermano...that's pretty funny..."Bondying up to meet the challenge" I think Ken Bondy will appreciate that!!! My daddy taught me good and tiomiguel has that big heart thing going for him too.

KurtG - 10-16-2010 at 12:30 PM

Shari,
You represent the best of what I have always thought of as "The Old Baja Spirit." There are those on this board who say it doesn't exist anymore but you and others I know are proof that it does.

Kathy and I send our best and hope to see you and the new family addition soon.
Kurt

boe4fun - 10-17-2010 at 06:57 AM

GOOD ON YOU GIRLFRIEND!!! Drop by and see us at Campo Sirena when you get the chance, Paul and Shelley

[Edited on 10-17-2010 by boe4fun]

Pacifico - 10-17-2010 at 08:20 AM

Thanks for your help Shari!!! Both Bill and Billy are good friends of mine. You couldn't have helped out nicer guys.....Good job!

[Edited on 10-17-2010 by Pacifico]

shari - 10-17-2010 at 08:24 AM

Hey Pacifico...I would love to hear the rest of the story. I hope it had a happy ending...please ask Bill or billy to email me...thanks.

Pacifico - 10-17-2010 at 09:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
Hey Pacifico...I would love to hear the rest of the story. I hope it had a happy ending...please ask Bill or billy to email me...thanks.


I will be seeing them soon, I will tell them to email you....

shari - 10-17-2010 at 04:28 PM

I am so pleased to report that I just talked to Bill's wife Carol and to Bill himself...he just got out of the hospital where he was in critical condition for awhile...turns out my diagnosis was correct and he had burst appendix and would not have made it through the night...but he got very good emergency care in the states and is recovering happily at home now! WOOOO HOOOOO...a happy ending on a day where we are grieving for the flying samaritans.

The other good news is that his insurance will indeed pay for the evacuation by aero Gerrero Negro...good to know.

krafty - 10-17-2010 at 04:49 PM

Wonderful news!

frizkie - 10-17-2010 at 08:01 PM

Way to go Shari!!! You are the best!!!

David K - 10-18-2010 at 07:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
I am so pleased to report that I just talked to Bill's wife Carol and to Bill himself...he just got out of the hospital where he was in critical condition for awhile...turns out my diagnosis was correct and he had burst appendix and would not have made it through the night...but he got very good emergency care in the states and is recovering happily at home now! WOOOO HOOOOO...a happy ending on a day where we are grieving for the flying samaritans.

The other good news is that his insurance will indeed pay for the evacuation by aero Guerrero Negro...good to know.


Thanks for the update... Kaiser rocks!:bounce:

shari - 10-18-2010 at 09:53 AM

this news that some insurance plans WILL cover medivac flights from small baja airlines should help save lives...I repeat...when someone out in the boonies needs fast emergency medical attention in central baja...call Aero GN to get the job done...might be worth checking your personal insurance plans.

El Camote - 10-18-2010 at 10:05 AM

So, maybe I missed something but did the hospital misdiagnose the appendicitis or are they ill-equipped to remove an appendix.

shari - 10-18-2010 at 10:10 AM

when I was translating Bill's symptoms and commented it sure sounded like burst appendix, the doctor said it was highly unlikely in a person of his age. Ordinarily, they would operate immediately for this however they did not want to do this operation there as Bill was considered a high risk and they were worried about complications they couldnt deal with...there was NO diagnosis and in their report they cited several possibilities for his pain.

I think i was a good call on their part as bill needed some pretty complicated procedures to survive as his appendix has most likely ruptured 24 hours earlier and he was in rough shape. The doctors there knew their limits and thought it was wiser to evacuate him.

I once took a touring basketball team player from San Diego to that hospital with ruptured appendix and they operated on him immediately successfully.

[Edited on 10-18-2010 by shari]

El Camote - 10-18-2010 at 10:26 AM

Thanks, Shari, that makes total sense. Same thing happened to me when I was 3 years old and the pediatrician poo-pooed my mother's concerns on the phone saying it couldn't be appenicitis at that age. "Give him an enema. It's just gas" Luckily she didn't but the pain intensified until it burst and the diagnosis and surgery was immediate when we went to the emergency room. The attending doctor could tell as soon as he put his hand on my abdomen. Don't remember much from that age but I do remember the pain.

Good on you Shari for acting quickly and helping to save this man's life! :wow:

shari - 10-18-2010 at 01:46 PM

I was just looking at the guerrero negro airlines website...here is the link

http://www.aereoserviciosguerrero.com.mx/inicio.shtml

Demand investigation of airplanes that crash

jenny.navarrette - 6-28-2011 at 05:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
my Plan B..which was to hire a plane from GN...he gave me a thumbs up so being sunday the office was closed and nobody had their number so I went to Capt. Chongs house to see what could be done.

His wife runs the business and she is one efficient lady. Within an hour they had a plane that could take a stretcher ready to roll...

Any of you who vacation or live in mid baja might want to have Aero Guerrero Negro phone # in thier wallet by their medical info....just in case. They could have flown right into san franciscito and saved him having to travel over that awful road in his delicate condition!
Their number is 615-157-0132 or (0137)...tell em shari sent ya!


The Baja California state Congress approved a call to the Department of Comunications and Transports (SCT) to investigate a company whose airplanes have crashed six times in Baja California.

The company is “Aeroservicios Guerrero”, that covers the routes from Guerrero Negro to Cedros Island and Ensenada to Cedros Island, affirmed deputy Alfonso Garzón Zatarain.

The company operates 8-place aircraft which are in very poor condition due to their age.

Link to article

taoswheat - 6-28-2011 at 06:03 PM

I'll take a risky plane over sure death anytime- But I like airplanes.
Great job Shari. I really wish the house sitting deal had worked out. I missed a great opportunity.
JohnW

Lee - 6-28-2011 at 07:04 PM

I must have missed the original post -- so, I know where I can get help and a health advocate should I be in mid-Baja.

Great story, Shari. Thanks for what you did!

Udo - 6-28-2011 at 07:16 PM

This thread led me to start investigating air evacuation rules for my insurance (s).
Kind of made me look at Explorer Insurance that offers MASA (Medical Air Services Association.
At times Baja can be a big and scary place if not properly prepared!

Iflyfish - 6-28-2011 at 08:24 PM

Just found this thread. Great info. As we age these concerns become more significant and it is with relief I read this and know that this resource exists. This is one of the most important posts I have read on my years on Nomads.

Thank you Shari for again rising to the need. You have a wonderful heart and are one of the most competant people I know. We are all richer because you are in our lives.

There is no one I would rather have at my back. I am proud to call you friend. Abrazos Forte.

Iflyfish

Marc - 6-28-2011 at 08:35 PM

Good job!!

JaraHurd - 6-28-2011 at 08:36 PM

Shari..i am getting in late on this thread....GREAT JOB!! thanx..You are amazing... jon

Mulegena - 6-28-2011 at 09:12 PM

Yes, this was all coming down while she was with Sirena in the hospital birthing Izaak.

That man was so very fortunate that Shari was there and was willing. Stepped up, she did!

jenny.navarrette - 6-28-2011 at 09:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mulegena
Yes, this was all coming down while she was with Sirena in the hospital birthing Izaak.

That man was so very fortunate that Shari was there and was willing. Stepped up, she did!


I guess you did not read Shari's message in detail. Neither she nor Sirena nor the baby were supposed to even be at the hospital. An incompetent nurse used the wrong size blood pressure cuff and reported that Sirena's blood pressure was too high. So they kept momma and baby in the hospital an extra day unncessarily.

That is context.

Do you want more context? Look at the story of Sallysouth's daughter, Juanita. She was getting test after test for weeks down in Cabo and the doctors could not figure out her problem. Then she flies up to San Diego, and what does Sallysouth do? She drives her dying daughter back across the border into Tijuana to waste another week with incompetent Mexican doctors. Finally that doctor tells her to take her daughter back north to the real world of medicine, where Juanita is immediately diagnosed with Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia, an extremely dangerous illness that should have been treated weeks earlier while they were jerking around in Cabo and TJ.

That is context. You cheerleaders are willing to die and let your own children die just to hang on to your myths about Mexico.

Want more context? Read about Jerry Shelby.

luv2fish - 6-29-2011 at 06:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
Oladulce...yes, this IS big...I learned so much about air-vacs and was looking forward to sharing it with you all...especially those in the central baja...the fish and surf camp folks. I wasnt looking for praise (but it sure feels good to get it!!) but this info could save someones life.

The fact that Aero GN is a registered airline is helpful...only drawback is if you want a doctor or medic to accompany you...you pay extra. The owners of the company are very professional..stop by and see them at their office across the street from Malarrimo and tell em Shari sent ya! They would be happy to answer your questions about available planes they operate.

I'm told I have pretty good bedside humour....I got Bill to smile when I told him the news about being home for dinner!!


Awesome ........:tumble::tumble::tumble::tumble:

shari - 6-29-2011 at 08:15 AM

in retrospect...competent or incompetent nurses/doctors...faulty equipment...whatever happened to keep us in the hospital another day was fate in my opinion and after being in there for so many days...well another day just didnt matter much to us at that point..but it sure mattered to Bill who got the help he needed....ya do what ya gotta do.

I am pleased to take this oppotunity of old threads revisited, to thank the guardian angels once again for making sure we were all where we needed to be.

I was reflecting on the "living in mexico" theme brought up in this thread and realized that if not for the "spirit" of baja....those doctors wouldnt even have sought me out to try to help..the whole life saving event worked out the way it did BECAUSE of the baja way of life..which is not hesitating to jump in to help someone you dont even know....even if it means bending rules a bit and using unconventional methods to save a life.

Family/neighbourhood ties and connections are another baja factor which makes things possible and quicker... avoiding red tape..."come back on monday" scenarios you can get through by calling in a favor from a friend or family member. It is an intricate social system based on respect and fascinating to watch in action....anyway...I'd better get out for my morning dance along the beach followed by gardening......have a good day all....pendientes.

David K - 6-29-2011 at 08:16 AM

Thank you Shari!

Eli - 6-29-2011 at 08:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
in retrospect...competent or incompetent nurses/doctors...faulty equipment...whatever happened to keep us in the hospital another day was fate in my opinion and after being in there for so many days...well another day just didnt matter much to us at that point..but it sure mattered to Bill who got the help he needed....ya do what ya gotta do.

I am pleased to take this oppotunity of old threads revisited, to thank the guardian angels once again for making sure we were all where we needed to be.

I was reflecting on the "living in mexico" theme brought up in this thread and realized that if not for the "spirit" of baja....those doctors wouldnt even have sought me out to try to help..the whole life saving event worked out the way it did BECAUSE of the baja way of life..which is not hesitating to jump in to help someone you dont even know....even if it means bending rules a bit and using unconventional methods to save a life.

Family/neighbourhood ties and connections are another baja factor which makes things possible and quicker... avoiding red tape..."come back on monday" scenarios you can get through by calling in a favor from a friend or family member. It is an intricate social system based on respect and fascinating to watch in action....anyway...I'd better get out for my morning dance along the beach followed by gardening......have a good day all....pendientes.


I can't help Shari, I just wanna give ya big ol virtual hug about now, I just adore your perspective and how you express it!

shari - 6-29-2011 at 08:32 AM

abrazo recivido compa....mil gracias....back at ya with that hug.

flyfishinPam - 6-29-2011 at 09:13 AM

Hi there. Here's a sunrise perspective from today-



and one of my employees preparing for the day-



I have lived in many places throughout the US and I have to say none of them are like this place. I thank everything to have this opportunity and I thank the sun, moon, stars and spirits that I and my family are cien porciento healthy. I think there are things that can be done to prevent illness and that those things are abundant right here if you can find them. It must be done on an individual basis and cannot be learned. The tricks are to slow down and enjoy what's around us and maintain a good sense of humor, be strong and have a good sense of survival, be able to change plans when needed, etc. Many of these things are part of what we bring here and this keeps us together and discussing.

I have a unique medical experience. I hate hospitals and avoid them like the plague, I can think fast and study a lot, so... when I was with child the first time in 2000 I found out that most women in Loreto have their babies in Ciudad Constitucion, or La Paz. Well I thought the nearest is two hours away and what if the baby comes out on the road at some point in between? So I bought some books to prepare for the event. I connected to the internet for advice and decided to stay away from the people (usually women) who feared child birth.

I hired a doctor and did regular check-ups with periodic ultrasounds. This was in Ciudad Constitucion as there was no ultrasound in Loreto. At the same time I hired a midwife in Loreto. And of course I was studying and could deliver my own kid if I had to. I was impressed at the accuracy of Susanah's (midwife) description of the position of the baby inside me after seeing an ultrasound then going to to her afterwards. My baby was due near Easter Sunday. Well to make a long story short, Damiana decided she wanted out on Easter Sunday. Susanna was bailing on me and headed for La Paz and I had her in the hospital in front of the PEMEX station. I hate hospitals so my memories aren't too fond of the process but the nurses were wonderful. They really helped me learn how to start Damiana on breastfeeding and I carried this on to my next child. My one night stay and charges were 500 pesos and a case of cold Tecate that my husband and the doctor who worked on Easter Sunday shared after his duty was through. Damiana was born just before midnight and the new shift started at midnight, how convenient was that? Well for me it was 19 hours of labor and a hell ride from colonia Zaragoza to the hospital.

Enzl was due in late September 2002 and Susana wasn't going anywhere. I had been to the doctor in Constitucion for check ups and ultrasounds but I was relying on Susanah. She was very accurate on when he would come into the world and although the doctor predicted September 29th, Susana told me September 19th.

06:59 September 19th- I didn't have any boats out and I had fished for Dorado the day before and early in the morning I heard this annoying dog barking so I got up to chase it away. On the way back to bed I felt that very familiar sensation. Some call it pain but its more like an intense wave of strong energy, then it came again and I grabbed my watch. Again, they were coming a consistent 1 and a half minutes apart. So I told my husband to get out of bed and get Susanah.

He was in the bathroom when the water broke and I was looking out the bedroom window at a sunrise that looked a bit more intense than todays was. There were some large storm clouds and they covered the sun when Enzl was born. I asked Damiana who was two and a half at the time to go and get me a large ranch blanket. And I told her to send our curious doberman outside for awhile.

When Francisco got out of the bathroom I told him to go and get Susanah and take Damiana with him. I still heard the truck going down the bumpy road up the hill when Enzl's head popped out. I put a firm hand on his little cabeza then the rest of him slid out. He was still blue as he had just left a life of suspension in amniotic fluid, so I cleared out the inside of his little mouth turned him over on his stomach and gently massaged him over the heart. The pink rushed from his heart and his chest up to his head and his limbs. I've seen calamari do this. Then he opened his eyes and yelled for a few seconds, took a deep breath and then cried consistently. It was 07:19.

His cord was so short, thick and still pulsating that I could only hold him near my knees. So I sat on the floor and then my neighbor walked in. She heard some weird noise like someone moaning and I told her to come over and have a look. Was a surprise for sure. Then Susanah, Francisco and Damiana came in right behind to see the little package I had to show off.

Susannah dealt with separating us, she cleaned up my house and drank a bottle of rum with Juanita my neighbor. She injected me with ergot to help with clotting after the placenta came out. And she wouldn't let me go out fishing. I wanted to go fishing just to say I could, because I felt absolutely no pain and I could have hiked Las Parras cañon that day. Susanah made me rest and lay down with the baby she said this would be my last chance to do this for the next 18 years and she was sure right about that!

Getting Enzl's birth certificate and legal papers were easy because there are still ranch women who have their children in the campo. Susanah always had ladies ready to "explode" around her house in colonia Zaragoza. Susanah was also a curandera and she was very knowlegable about the local medicinal properties of our native plants. She passed on a few years ago but I sure wish I had gotten to know her better.

The ladies who have had less in life are the ones with the healthiest attitude on childbirth and health in general. It seems as though the more people rely on synthetic meds, machines, and then add on stress and a rate race standard of living, the health problems become more of an issue in life. The best thing is to slow down and enjoy everything all around you, watch what goes into your body and keep your machine in good shape, your mind ans spirit too. I can't think of too many other places that I could have settled and found this.

edited an image file then went for coffee



[Edited on 6-29-2011 by flyfishinPam]

shari - 6-29-2011 at 11:10 AM

WOWEEEE>>holy placenta amiga....that is a great story...both of them..thanks for that...as if I didnt admire you for greatness already...you are my superheroine now!!!!!

Eli - 6-29-2011 at 11:36 AM

Pam, may I say how much I enjoyed your pictures and the story of the birth of your 2 children, you have been greatly blessed in the path you take, I hope your lucky star continues to shine and I so agree we make our own way by how we live our lives, (well at least to a certain degree).



[Edited on 6-30-2011 by Eli]

bent-rim - 6-29-2011 at 11:44 AM

flyfishinPam,
Wow, what a great story. It sure is easy being a man, I almost feel insignificant after reading your tale.

Iflyfish - 6-29-2011 at 06:47 PM

What a great story Pam, thank you so much for sharing this with us. We recently watched a documentary, with Ricky Lake, on home birthing. It opened my eyes to how "medicalized" birthing has become. C sections used to be a very rare occurrence but now are common. Most are done because the hospital runs on shift and the docs want to deliver before their shift is over. So women are told, you cannot deliver because you have been in labor too long, they inject petosin and induce labor, anesthetize the mother and she misses out on the ecstasy your describe in your second birth. This euphoria adds to the bonding experience.

I am not being critical of mothers who have delivered in the hospital; we have been conditioned to do so since the 1940’s. There are certainly times when medical intervention is needed, it is important to have that back up available if needed. The statistics on problems related to the medicalization of childbirth were stunning to me and they account for a big part of why the US lags behind so many other countries in infant mortality.

Research is also showing that our western focus on hygiene has a causal relationship with childhood allergies and asthma. It seems that our immune system needs exposure to certain pathogens, particularly found around barn yard animals, in order to develop a healthy immune system. Children born in Holland, with barn yard animals in the house, have far lower rates of allergies than children reared in more “sterile” environments.

Thanks again for sharing this wonderful story. Like Shari, I hold you in awe. I hope we one day meet and can wet a line.

Iflyfish

Santiago - 6-29-2011 at 09:38 PM

FFP:
Stunning, to say the least.

bajafam - 6-29-2011 at 11:26 PM

I would also like to step up and commend my Mexcian doctors and doctoras as well as the nurses and everyone else that was there when I had Tristan in San Quintin.

I will find the thread if anyone needs a refresher :)

bajafam - 6-29-2011 at 11:31 PM

How we became a BajaFam...or how we had a baby in Baja!
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=42620#pid4677...

How We Registered Mister's Birth - or Some Facts You Should Know About Documentation :)
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=42821#pid4708...

flyfishinPam - 6-30-2011 at 06:50 AM

I certainly don't mean to put down anyone who birthed their child in a hospital or anyone who is less fortunate than me and my family in being ill. I just read some negative posts about Mexico and thought about the positive experiences that I had that I do not think would have been able to take place with such ease NOTB.

It is true about the relationship between oversterility and allergies as iflyfish states. As my first one was starting to get mobile and putting everything in her mouth, especially dirt, my reaction was to chase her around and take stuff out of her hands so she wouldn't do that. Many of my older lady neighbors told me to not work so hard doing that because just like iflyfish says, they said the objects she puts in her mouth help her stay healthy in the future. I do understand that, I studied immunology and this is true. Many ladies are afraid of the "pain" of childbirth but when you are relaxed and mentally prepared it is not painful at all it is actually more like a giant orgasm. Guys, you don't know what you're missing!

I just wish bajafam was around to sell me cloth diapers eleven years ago, in my searches back then I was only able to find a total of six of them in Constitucion and La Paz.

mtgoat666 - 6-30-2011 at 06:58 AM

the infant mortality rate in mexico is 21/1000. infant mortality rate in USA is 7/1000.

flyfishinPam - 6-30-2011 at 07:09 AM

Here I am on September 18th, 2002 day before Enzl was born. Don't mind the clothes I am a size 4 and I could only wear huge t-shirts and my husbands futbol shorts


Eli - 6-30-2011 at 07:13 AM

Bajafam, I was grateful to read your thread, good Mojo there, thanks.

In regard to health care, here, there, home or hospital, I can't help but think that it is the luck of the draw.

I have a friend who recently went back to the vets hospital in the states to do her annual check up, which led to an emergency surgury. I just received the information that she is in intensive care due to an infection that she picked up there. She is a registered nurse very well versed in Western Medicine, why this should have happened to her I cannot imagine. Sh*t happens I guess, that's all.

[Edited on 6-30-2011 by Eli]

bill erhardt - 6-30-2011 at 07:25 AM

Great story, Pamela, and well told!
I particularly appreciated the part where Enzi's circulatory system kicked in and the calamari analogy.
Something the other half of us can relate to.
I'll bet it wasn't long until you had to beware of how he was positioned during strategic operations to avoid being hosed down, also similar to calamari.

bajafam - 6-30-2011 at 09:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
the infant mortality rate in mexico is 21/1000. infant mortality rate in USA is 7/1000.


According to UNICEF it was actually 15/1000 in 2009.
Infant mortality is also based on infants under 1 year, not on still births. what you should really look at is the perinatal mortality rate, which is the rate of neonatal deaths and stillbirths (of which Mexico is 7/1000 according to UNICEF and the US is 4/1000, so not much difference).

BUT, with infant mortality, compared to the global average of 49.4/1000, Mexico is looking pretty good. AND I'm not talking about Mexico as a whole, I am referring to Baja - which fluctuates depending on your source. 14.9/1000 according to Geo-Mexico.

I believe the high rates of infant mortality are based on SIDS cases, and accidents where the infants are not properly restrained. Also, thanks to corporations such as Nestle pushing formula, many developing countries are not breast feeding their babies, and are unable to afford the formula, leading to many infant deaths due to malnutrition.

I agree with the recommendation of "The Business of Being Born" it is an eye-opening film and a declaration of the sad state that the US is in. I was not lucky like Pam to have birthed at home, although I was ready to do so. I desperately wanted a natural (as much as possible in the hospital) birth, but I instead opted out of pain meds for my induction.

One last comparison, and I tell you from experience that my care in Baja was on par with my care in the US. More so, in the fact that I was one of two mothers giving birth, whereas in the US for my daughter's birth I was shuffled through a line of mother's awaiting the inductions, c-sections, and a rare "come as you are" births. My son's bill was $750 total. My daughter's was $15,000. Hmmm. AND no one forced the idea of circumcision on me in Mexico. I would NOT have been so lucky in the US. sad.

flyfishinPam - 7-1-2011 at 10:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajafam

I believe the high rates of infant mortality are based on SIDS cases, and accidents where the infants are not properly restrained. Also, thanks to corporations such as Nestle pushing formula, many developing countries are not breast feeding their babies, and are unable to afford the formula, leading to many infant deaths due to malnutrition.

I agree with the recommendation of "The Business of Being Born" it is an eye-opening film and a declaration of the sad state that the US is in. I was not lucky like Pam to have birthed at home, although I was ready to do so. I desperately wanted a natural (as much as possible in the hospital) birth, but I instead opted out of pain meds for my induction.

One last comparison, and I tell you from experience that my care in Baja was on par with my care in the US. More so, in the fact that I was one of two mothers giving birth, whereas in the US for my daughter's birth I was shuffled through a line of mother's awaiting the inductions, c-sections, and a rare "come as you are" births. My son's bill was $750 total. My daughter's was $15,000. Hmmm. AND no one forced the idea of circumcision on me in Mexico. I would NOT have been so lucky in the US. sad.


I will look up the film. Yes it certainly is a business that reminds me of factory farming. Boo on the baby formula and double boo on circumcision a totally unnecessary procedure.

to shorten the hospital birth story, as it was Easter Sunday I was the lone patient in the hospital that night and I did a few things out of the ordinary: I insisted my husband stay by my side (usually a serious no no), and I refused to lay down (a totally stupid position) until the last minute to let gravity do some of the work. During the most intense part I did ask for pain meds but they didn't have any, I even asked for Tequila but they told me no. :lol:

bajafam - 7-2-2011 at 12:54 PM

I was one of two patients, my husband was there the whole time, no questions asked, as was such with my daughter, who was 2 1/2 at the time and stayed with me overnight (hubs slept in the car with the dogs - although he could have stayed with me had he wanted to). I must confess that this was in a private hospital, not in an IMSS facility, although we had looked into the one closest to where we were staying and it was very nice.

Formula has it's place, but should NOT be offered unless medically necessary. It happens in the states and I was saddened to have it happen in Baja - after being born and not even a half an hour into this world and already an attempt to force feed formula. I just took the bottle, smiled and nodded. My daughter was formula fed (and I blame the nurses in the hospital for forcing formula on her within the first hour!) but I refused to have the same thing happen to my son. I was determined to feed this baby naturally!!

Circumcision, on the other hand, is very, very, very, very rarely medically necessary and that is all I will say about that :rolleyes: