BajaNomad - so what is the truth on tourist visas in BCS

so what is the truth on tourist visas in BCS

BajaBlanca - 11-5-2010 at 07:03 PM

we went to immigration in santa rosalia today and there was a guy who arrived on a motorcycle, came straight from the states. he was under the impression that he could get his tourist visa in santa rosalia. he had been in exico 48 hours.

they wanted to charge him 500 pesos as a fine. he walked out, saying he would either go to la paz (immigration told him he would be immed. deported) and get one or return to ensenada.

is this the way it is ?????? can someone please clarify.

Lee - 11-5-2010 at 07:08 PM

I don't speak from experience. I think the La Paz office might also ''fine'' him, maybe less pesos, maybe more, maybe nothing. If he cops an attiude at the LP office, they'll probably cop one too. Don't think deportation is in the picture. No harm in trying the LP office if he's going that way. But he should pay the ''fine'' whatever it is -- in LP -- and be legal.

DENNIS - 11-5-2010 at 07:26 PM

The guy is a mo-ron for doing this to himself. He should be deported just for being stupid.

[Edited on 11-6-2010 by DENNIS]

Pescador - 11-5-2010 at 07:27 PM

The rule is that when you enter the country you need a visa. They use to give you a lot of slack but no more. You are officially fined the same 500 pesos if you wait until Ensenada. I have had friends who paid this same thing. So, no, the people in Santa Rosalia were spot on that he would have a fine. Problem is that he may make it all the way to La Paz without having his visa checked. That is just one of the inconsistensies in the program. If Santa Rosalia had been a little more forceful, they could have arrested him on the spot since he was actually in the country illegally.

longlegsinlapaz - 11-5-2010 at 07:32 PM

I concur.....a friend & fellow Nomad forgot to get a visa when he flew out of TJ to La Paz.....fine in La Paz was ballpark $500 pesos.

David K - 11-5-2010 at 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
The guy is a mo-ron for doing this to himself. He should be deported just for being stupid.

[Edited on 11-6-2010 by DENNIS]

Excellent answer Dennis! :lol:

BajaBlanca - 11-5-2010 at 08:03 PM

oh my gosh Dennis - that is hysterical !! mo-ron !! too funny.

just for the record, he was not beliigerant at all, just confused and perhaps short of cash ??? not expecting the fine and it took him by surprise.

i am so glad i asked this question and go these answers. thanks all. i really thought it was OK to go as far as G Negro or S Rosalia before getting the visa. Altho' we now have FM2s, before we did, I always insisted on getting my tourist visa at the border. hassle or no hassle, I like being in the right.

BajaBlanca - 11-5-2010 at 08:38 PM

nahhhhhhhhhhhh they were really busy with all the paperwork we had them preparing for us and did not get a name or anything from the kid, but since TJ had informed him it was OK to go to santa rosalia, he was really convinced they wanted to fleece him. and to be honest, I thought the same, I had no idea at all that it was the law to get a visa the minute you step over the border ( I have always done that, but just thought I was stubborn that way).

sure hope it isn't your brother, tho

About an hour later, we saw him chomping away at a street vendor's burrito.

sancho - 11-5-2010 at 08:42 PM

Met a guy from Belgium on the ferry
Cabo/Vallarta back in the day, he had
been going around the World for 7 yrs.,
said the Border at TJ was the only crossing
he had been to that one could walk
across and not be asked for a Passport/Visa,
such lack of, and implementation of Immigration
Laws leads to confusion and people skirting
the Regs, but heck, it is Mexico

David K - 11-5-2010 at 08:47 PM

You know it is sort of a trap... I mean there are NO SIGNS at the Mexican border, or south of Ensenada, or before Guerrero Negro that tell tourists one is 'required' to proceed south or stay longer than 3 days (or 7?).

How did that guy get past the Eagle Monument inspector?

Not everyone reads the Internet or guidebooks before heading south, afterall.

Why not set up a booth at the south end of the 'border zone' and use it to make money... sell the tourist cards there... They used to, at Maneadero a few years ago. Just one migra guy and one bank teller on duty...

[Edited on 11-6-2010 by David K]

BajaBlanca - 11-5-2010 at 08:58 PM

well, in europe they do not stamp anything when you drive. so last year, Les and I took an extended trip to 12 different countires BUT we started the trip in Poland, where Les is from.

then we drove for a couple weeks. then we stayed in northern poland with family. as i was at the airport, ready to leave, the lady looks at my passport and says, you overstayed your time here in poland.

i panicked. (visions of prison, huge fines, black lists, deportation). WELL,the truth was that we had NOT spent the whole time there but all the stuff/receipts for stuff we had bought had already gone with our luggage onto the plane. all i had were currencies from the non union countries which she deemed was not acceptable. i really was quite upset and all the people around us were staring at the ILLEGAL ALIENS. In the end, I said that I had dated photos on my laptop. And trust me, I had thousand of photos. she asked me to find one where I was in the picture - not too common since I take the pics - but as the good Lord loves me dearly - the first one I opened was me in front of the Eiffel tower, properly dated. she said "OK. you can go."

after profusely thanking her, I asked what the punishment would have been. and she calmly said, you would have been fined 200 zloty (about $15). :lol:

Bob and Susan - 11-6-2010 at 05:57 AM

its not a "trap"
it's a rule

it's been in place for a couple of years

visitor visas need to be procured at the border

the fine is not a mordida it's a fine

monoloco - 11-6-2010 at 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
You know it is sort of a trap... I mean there are NO SIGNS at the Mexican border, or south of Ensenada, or before Guerrero Negro that tell tourists one is 'required' to proceed south or stay longer than 3 days (or 7?).

How did that guy get past the Eagle Monument inspector?

Not everyone reads the Internet or guidebooks before heading south, afterall.

Why not set up a booth at the south end of the 'border zone' and use it to make money... sell the tourist cards there... They used to, at Maneadero a few years ago. Just one migra guy and one bank teller on duty...

[Edited on 11-6-2010 by David K]

DK, the last 4 times I have gone through GN there have been no immigration people there.

monoloco - 11-6-2010 at 07:14 AM

The guy should just enjoy his vacation and not worry about it, his odds of being asked for immigration documents are close to zero. If he is asked he can just play stupid and pay the fine then. I know two people who flew out of Cabo last week that had no visas, INM provided them the documents for 250 pesos each.

mulegemichael - 11-6-2010 at 07:18 AM

i haven't seen any immigration folk at GN for a long, long, long time now.

shari - 11-6-2010 at 07:24 AM

Last week some german tourists showed up here and asked about a tourist visa. I told them they should have got their tourist visa at the border as YES they need them...particulary if they want their vehicle insurance to be valid.

They said that immigration people at the border told them they didnt need a visa if they were only going to be in the country a week. Well, with a bit more prodding, turns out it wasnt an immigration official...it was the border crossing guy...so something got lost in the translation I imagine.... point is that at the border the guys tell people they dont need em...maybe they think everyone just kicks around TJ for awhile...or maybe it is a trap.

Immigration at GN doesnt aways check you coming in...but they love to when you are going north...hmmmm. Yes, the fine is 500 pesos and change and whichever immigration person is obligated to charge them the fine if they want to issue a FMT.

It is really hard to explain to people that the border guards dont know much about immigration....our best bet is to spread this info on the mexican message boards so peope dont get caught unawares.

BTW...the german couple made a B-line for immigration in Santa Rosalia to get their visas...although they were sad as they were cash strapped.

gnukid - 11-6-2010 at 08:24 AM

There are many reasonable explanations for why you would need to get your tourist visa south of GN, you just have to have a reasonable explanation and be polite and patient. Many tourist visas are processed in La Paz and Cabo. The guys in SR may like to make trouble. But if the cost is $22/visa and there is a fee for being late past 7 days, if in fact you are, then $500 pesos total is not unreasonable.

When someone tells you there is a fine in Mexico it doesn't mean that you will be fined, only that you could be fined under certain circumstances.

You would benefit from some proof of your timing, for example a receipt from a calle cuota in the north which was less than 7 days prior.

[Edited on 11-6-2010 by gnukid]

TMW - 11-6-2010 at 08:26 AM

I just returned from La Paz and I was not asked for my visa anywhere going or coming. They only wanted the 20 pesos to spray my truck at GN.

wilderone - 11-6-2010 at 08:47 AM

"I had no idea at all that it was the law to get a visa the minute you step over the border"
Still depends on where you're going and for how long.

gnukid - 11-6-2010 at 09:20 AM

At the border the majority of people you meet will tell you you do not need a visa, because in most cases you don't need a visa, unless you are going south and will spend more than 7 days, which apparently very few do. It is totally reasonable to explain that you crossed the border and planned a short trip which you extended later on when you discovered you love Mexico, the people and the country, because it's better than the USA-you'll get your visa.

BajaRat - 11-6-2010 at 09:34 AM

The Baja migra operation is so lax compaired to mainland Mx. For travel south of Cd Juarez all traffic is stopped at a large immigration center where vehicles are inspected, documents are checked and import fees are levied. If you dont have proper I.D. , vehicle documentation including proof of insurance you are not allowed to head south. The Baja operation is set for failure with the unwary paying the $$$$$$$$$$$.
Lionel

schwlind - 11-6-2010 at 09:43 AM

I know this has been answered before, but for how long are the FMT's valid?

[Edited on 11-6-2010 by schwlind]

tiotomasbcs - 11-6-2010 at 09:44 AM

Amigos, get smart. Tell em you lost it accidentally or your car was robbed and IDs taken, or an Alien borrowed it "I'm very sorry & will gladly get another"! The easiest way is to get one thru the Travel clubs, obviously! See what I learned in College!? :biggrin:

Tio

BAJACAT - 11-6-2010 at 10:35 AM

Quote:

David what inspector? in all my travels to BCS, I have paid for my visa and not even once they have ask me for it in GN, they only ask me for the $ for the water that they spray in your car..Maybe beacuse I look to MKexican jajajjaja... I think is a waist of money but I still get them just in case..

David K - 11-6-2010 at 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
its not a "trap"
it's a rule

it's been in place for a couple of years

visitor visas need to be procured at the border

the fine is not a mordida it's a fine

Yah Bob, I know that's why I said it's "sort of a trap".. In that nothing tells drivers as the motor south on Hwy. 1 or 5 that a tourist card is required of them... People sometimes just follow an open road...

Also, what if someone was staying in Ensenada for a couple nights and decided while there to take a drive to El Rosario or south of the border zone? Since the office in Ensenada won't issue them without a fine, why should someone pay a fine when they made a late change of plans and want to do things legal?

It is crazy the border zone rules and having to pay at a bank.

David K - 11-6-2010 at 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BAJACAT

Quote:

That's right... the last three times we crossed south at Guerrero Negro we were approached by a migra officer and were asked for the tourist cards... then the spray guy was next with his hand out. These three times were July 2009, July 2007, Dec. 2001.

I guess we were just way too güero looking! :light:

[Edited on 11-6-2010 by David K]

BajaBlanca - 11-6-2010 at 12:03 PM

santa rosalia migra told the kid that he was not allowed one minute south of ensenada without a tourist visa and that he should have gotten it in TJ.
So the 7 days rule is invalid ???????

BajaCat - aren't you Mexican ? So you dont need a tourist visa ????

@schwlind - the tourist visas are good for UP TO 6 MONTHS but you must request this or they give you 30 days ...

Bajahowodd - 11-6-2010 at 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaRat
The Baja migra operation is so lax compaired to mainland Mx. For travel south of Cd Juarez all traffic is stopped at a large immigration center where vehicles are inspected, documents are checked and import fees are levied. If you dont have proper I.D. , vehicle documentation including proof of insurance you are not allowed to head south. The Baja operation is set for failure with the unwary paying the $$$$$$$$$$$.
Lionel

Remember, with the exception of Baja, tourists must also obtain a vehicle permit. That's probably why it's more formalized South of Juarez.

That said, it has been years since anyone has asked me or my group to present a visa. Even at GN both directions.

The doofus mentioned at the beginning very likely could have completed his trip unmolested.

However, regardless of lax enforcement, I always obtain a visa as it is complying with the law.

Bob and Susan - 11-6-2010 at 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca
@schwlind - the tourist visas are good for UP TO 6 MONTHS but you must request this or they give you 30 days ...

no...at the border they give you 180 days

you SHOULD check though

i've gotten three there in the last year

[Edited on 11-6-2010 by Bob and Susan]

David K - 11-6-2010 at 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd

Quote:

Remember, with the exception of Baja, tourists must also obtain a vehicle permit. That's probably why it's more formalized South of Juarez. ...

Part of Sonora is also in the 'tourist free zone' where car permits are not required...

[Edited on 11-6-2010 by David K]

sonorafreezone.jpg - 39kB

turtleandtoad - 11-6-2010 at 04:21 PM

The FMT has been replaced with the FMM. This is a multiple use form. There are 11 different Tourist classifications, plus FM2 and FM3 applications, that all now use this one form (you'll understand when you see your first one).

For the typical RV tourist, the procedure is that you are allowed 180 days in-country per year. The year starts when you first cross the border. Before you return to the US you are supposed to turn in your FMM. This stops the clock. So don't forget to turn it in.

Next time you go to Mexico, you get another FMM. Only this time it will give you a return date calculated by subtracting the previous in-country time from 180. This can be done up to 6 times in that 1 year period.

If you stay out of country for longer than a year, then the 180 day clock is reset and you start all over.

Hope this helps.

[Edited on 11-6-2010 by turtleandtoad]

And, Your Point?

Bajahowodd - 11-6-2010 at 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd

Quote:

Remember, with the exception of Baja, tourists must also obtain a vehicle permit. That's probably why it's more formalized South of Juarez. ...

Part of Sonora is also in the 'tourist free zone' where car parmits are not required...

Not sure what a parmit is. :lol:

visa

nicolettes - 11-6-2010 at 04:35 PM

when coming from Tecate; where will I pick up a visa?

how much will it cost?

David K - 11-6-2010 at 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by turtleandtoad
The FMT has been replaced with the FMM. This is a multiple use form. There are 11 different Tourist classifications, plus FM2 and FM3 applications, that all now use this one form (you'll understand when you see your first one).

For the typical RV tourist, the procedure is that you are allowed 180 days in-country per year. The year starts when you first cross the border. Before you return to the US you are supposed to turn in your FMM. This stops the clock. So don't forget to turn it in.

Next time you go to Mexico, you get another FMM. Only this time it will give you a return date calculated by subtracting the previous in-country time from 180. This can be done up to 6 times in that 1 year period.

If you stay out of country for longer than a year, then the 180 day clock is reset and you start all over.

Hope this helps.

[Edited on 11-6-2010 by turtleandtoad]

Sounds like they are going to punish tourists more if the 180 day card is not valid for 180 days total, for that 20 something dollar fee?

Guess that means the free 7 day or less card will be the way to go, unless we get is for a full 180 days worth of multiple trips as before?

20 some dollars for every man, woman and child every time they travel into Mexico beyond the border zone is too much of a financial hardship in today's economy for most families. Mexican businesses and families will be further harmed as their government tries to fatten its pockets. I don't know any Baja business that gets a kick back or some benefit from the federal government's taking money from tourists as they cross the border. They will only see less and less tourists the harder it is to travel south.

What is your point?

David K - 11-6-2010 at 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd

Quote:

Remember, with the exception of Baja, tourists must also obtain a vehicle permit. That's probably why it's more formalized South of Juarez. ...

Part of Sonora is also in the 'tourist free zone' where car permits are not required...

Not sure what a parmit is. :lol:

Me either... but I fixed the typo, just for you!

sancho - 11-8-2010 at 02:45 PM

With all due respect to Turtle& Toad, all of us
can relate our own experiences or opinion
on HOW we believe the Mex Immigration
system to operate. The statement you get
180 days in Mex per yr. and some idea of
the clock stopping as you turn in your fmm
at the border, is in my belief totally incorrect.
Travellers on the mainland report no problem
getting another fmm.

You can get another fmm after your current
one expires, just like with the previous fmt's were.
To my knowledge no one has been denied
another fmm, that is an urban legend that
you get 180 days total per yr. I don't believe the fmm
it is intended as a mulitiple entry form,
neither was the fmt , but logic tells you that you can
keep the fmm for mulitiple entries, until
it expires

Bajahowodd - 11-8-2010 at 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sancho
With all due respect to Turtle& Toad, all of us
can relate our own experiences or opinion
on HOW we believe the Mex Immigration
system to operate. The statement you get
180 days in Mex per yr. and some idea of
the clock stopping as you turn in your fmm
at the border, is in my belief totally incorrect.
Travellers on the mainland report no problem
getting another fmm.

You can get another fmm after your current
one expires, just like with the previous fmt's were.
To my knowledge no one has been denied
another fmm, that is an urban legend that
you get 180 days total per yr. I don't believe the fmm
it is intended as a mulitiple entry form,
neither was the fmt , but logic tells you that you can
keep the fmm for mulitiple entries, until
it expires

They would have to maintain a fairly sophisticated data base to make that work. Last month at San Ysidro the official neither scanned our passports nor appeared to enter any data, at least while we were there. Not to mention that it is wholly inconvenient to surrender the visa upon return. Think about the logistics at SY, assuming no one would be foolish enough to cross North, just to re-enter to see the Imm guy. One would have to find parking south of the river and walk back. Ridiculous. Would seem to me that even if they had a mail-in system, I don't know if I'd trust it.

turtleandtoad - 11-8-2010 at 03:36 PM

I maintain a 'sticky' on the RV.net RVing in Mexico and South America that covers all the border stuff that affects the average tourist. It's called The New and Improved Border FAQ's. And I don't rely on rumor or "it happened to a friend of a friend' war stories. I research everything to the best of my ability!

The below was submitted by a friend (mexbungalows) that lives in Mexico and speaks and writes fluent Spanish. He went directly to the source. I also collaborated all this by translating the Spanish source documents.

Now, as I said in my first post, what actually happens to one individual at the border is dependent more on the mood of the border official than on the actual rules. But that doesn't make it legal or correct.

FMM
On January 29, 2010, Mexico’s National Migration Institute (NMI) published a Manual of Criteria and Migration Procedures (“the Manual”). The Manual simplifies the process for obtaining non-immigrant visas, extends the authorized period of admission pursuant to these visas from 30 days to 180 days, and changes Mexican visa terminology.

THE CHANGES ARE SCHEDULED TO TAKE EFFECT MAY 1, 2010.
The major change for the average tourist is the replacement of the FM-T (Forma Migratoria Tourista).

New Short-Term Visa Introduced: Forma Migratoria Multiple (FMM)
The Manual combines the current FM-T (Tourist), FM-TTV (business, investor, or transfer of personnel), FM-3 (Business), and FM-3 (Technical) visas into one category, the Forma Migratoria Multiple (FMM). The FMM will allow for a maximum period of stay of 180 days in Mexico. The visa holder’s immigration status under the FMM will be further classified as follows: (a) Tourist; (b) Business; (c) Visitor with Lucrative Activities; or (d) Visitor with Non-Lucrative Activities. The visa holder may perform productive work under the FMM(c) (Visitor with Lucrative Activities) and FMM(d) (Visitor with Non-Lucrative Activities) for a maximum period of 180 days. The distinction between the FMM(c), Visitor with Non-Lucrative Activities, and FMM(d), Visitor with Lucrative Activities, turns on the source of the visa holder’s salary. If the foreign national receives a salary or other economic compensation from within Mexico, he or she will fall within FMM(c), Visitor with Lucrative Activities. If the foreign national receives compensation from their home country, i.e., outside of Mexico, he or she will be classified as an FMM(d), Visitor with Non-Lucrative Activities.

Now, most of us don’t have to worry about any of this, as the only difference is that we use a different form (the FMM) and just fill out the ‘tourist’ section.

However, the FMM is tied to your passport and is REQUIRED to be returned on exit. This effectively eliminates the multiple crossings with the same paperwork. And apparently the old trick of crossing back into the US and then returning to Mexico to get a new FM-T good for another 180 days will no longer be possible. The FMM will be tracked on a computer base and you are only allowed a total of 180 days in a 12 month period. Supposedly it will be set up to allow up to a maximum of six separate 30 day FMM’s to be issued in that 12 month period.

So, if you are planning on making multiple trips into Mexico in a given 12 month period, you better do a little advance planning and ask for just the time you need for each trip and don’t just automatically ask for 180 days the first time across. Remember, your year starts the first time you cross with the new FMM.
There is a lot more changes that will affect the FM3 and FM2 holders but I’m not going to include them here. I will add them to my sticky later. For those of you that would like to pursue this topic deeper, check out the below links or just Google “Mexico FMM visa”.

http://www.sanfelipelife.com/post/Tourist,-FM-3-and-FM-2-vis...

http://www.mexperience.co.uk/blogs/mexicoinsight/?p=256

For those that would like to read the Manual in its original Spanish;

Diario Oficial de la Federación

New Info.
Lic. Ismael Abarca INM was kind enough to show me the new regs in the manual. 180-days in any 360 (not 365) period. The FMM -must- be turned in when exiting Mexico. A new one will be issued upon re-entry for the days remaining as shown on the computer screen. From 30 April to 30 October the FMM's existing in Mexico will be honored. Then after that the clamps come down and the FMM will be enforced much like the 180-day car permit.

If the FMM is not surrendered upon departing and the individual attempts to re-enter they will not be issued an FMM nor can they get a car permit. A fine will have to be paid. Ismael believes the fine will be one thousand pesos payable at a Banjercito window only. If you depart and return with an unexpired FMM it will be caught at the INM SAT/SHCP checkpoint. The official will supposedly check the date of issuance of the FMM and if it is different than the current day then there is going to be a problem.

There seems to be nothing more than inconvenience at turning in an FMM at this point. What may be of concern is that the rules may not be strictly enforced at first and then when you are holding an FMM outside Mexico the rules start to be enforced. Remember the debacle when car bonding first came about in 1991? Bear in mind throughout the FMM changeover that the permits are going to be computerized. The INM computers are going to be every bit as unforgiving as the SAT/SHCP car permit computers.

From Mexbungalows

CaboRon - 11-8-2010 at 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
Last week some german tourists showed up here and asked about a tourist visa. I told them they should have got their tourist visa at the border as YES they need them...particulary if they want their vehicle insurance to be valid.

Very True

ecomujeres - 11-9-2010 at 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Also, what if someone was staying in Ensenada for a couple nights and decided while there to take a drive to El Rosario or south of the border zone? Since the office in Ensenada won't issue them without a fine, why should someone pay a fine when they made a late change of plans and want to do things legal?

Not quite sure why I keep hearing that Ensenada won't give tourist visas. We picked ours up there in mid-October at their tourist visa-only booth at the office in the dock area--no questions asked about why we didn't get them at the border, no mention of fines. Very pleasant interchange.

We were also told that the new visa was good for 180 days, and that if we wanted more time, we'd have to leave the country and then return and ask for new ones, as the new visas could no longer be extended using the same paperwork.

BajaBlanca - 11-9-2010 at 08:52 PM

so complicated .... so hard to follow all the rules and NOT blow it

gnukid - 11-10-2010 at 08:54 AM

You can get a visa at any port entry but you must have a proper reason. For example, if you arrived by boat and then walked to a INM office you would show a manifest crew list, passport and some evidence of recent arrival.

This year, baja is more flexible and police, INM and other officials understand that the goal is to allow people to enter and enjoy there stay and allow they to pay the fees and move along, the past years mordidas and idoicy and way day down - this week! Lots of retraining for government workers, but things change often and remote regions are slow to change their ways.

Just be honest, patient and expect that you probably misunderstand most of the time if you are super gringo. When someone says big infraction, or there could be a fine, it doesn't mean there is a fine or you are being fined, it's just a passing phrase. Be direct, kind and you will have no trouble. But if you lie, if you are caught in a clear lie, that's when the fines and delays will occur.