BajaNomad

FMM reality?

jeremias - 11-21-2010 at 06:24 PM

Hola Nomads

The FMM I got in June is set to expire here in about 10 days, and was hoping to get some info about what I should expect, or can actually do. I've looked around the net and only found lots of conflicting info about whether a person is limited to 180 days per calendar year or not. I'm headed to San Ysidro tomorrow and was going to turn the thing in and probably try to get another one on my way back down, unless that is a bad idea and I should be packing my stuff instead.

David K - 11-21-2010 at 07:06 PM

Let us know... maybe you can't go back to Mexico until next May?:(:o

bajajudy - 11-21-2010 at 07:14 PM

Did you check out?

jeremias - 11-21-2010 at 07:18 PM

I haven't checked out yet, but will probably turn the thing in tomorrow. I have found a couple threads around that sound fairly credible, that say there is not a limit on FMMs. But in Mexico, I'm guessing anything is still possible.

oxxo - 11-21-2010 at 07:29 PM

Although I got my FM3 two months ago, I have received consecutive FMTs at Tecate over the last 5 years, going in and out as many as 8 times a year. Nobody ever said anything to me.

jeremias - 11-21-2010 at 07:37 PM

I think that is part of the confusion(or at least mine)about the purpose of the FMM. Supposedly, the FMM is tracked by computer. I'm guessing the bar code has something to do with it. Also, how do you get to the migracion side to turn the thing in on the way back up north? hmmm.

David K - 11-21-2010 at 07:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jeremias
I think that is part of the confusion(or at least mine)about the purpose of the FMM. Supposedly, the FMM is tracked by computer. I'm guessing the bar code has something to do with it. Also, how do you get to the migracion side to turn the thing in on the way back up north? hmmm.


There is no sysytem for them to collect the things as you drive out of Mexico... basically they are useless for driving tourists who make more than 2 trips to mexico a year, but stay less than 180 days per year during their trips.

Discover Baja has provided an address to mail them in at the end of your trip... if that works it would be the only sane way to turn them in... However, they will be getting more money than they should if one has to pay each time for the next FMM ($23) no matter how few days your trip is.

If the computer recorded you turned it id by mail and the next one during the 180 days was free... then fine... but we don't know.

sancho - 11-21-2010 at 08:31 PM

This subject has been bounced around quite a
bit, I'm glad you are going to be the first
to put it to rest. I'll buy you a case of Pacifico
if you can't get another fmm. The first fmm was issued
May1 2010, so 6 + mo's have past, the first fmm's
have expired or are about to. I have never seen a
Mex Immigration scan a passport or manually enter
info into a computer, at least not while I have been standing
there. I believe that 180 day per some mythical yr.
is incorrect. Somehow that rumor got started and
won't die. Travellers going so. toward Guaymas
report no problem getting another fmm after
their current one expires. However I probably
would'nt hand them one that is about to expire and
immediately apply for another

jeremias - 11-21-2010 at 08:43 PM

That's what I'm thinking too sancho. I was hoping to hand it in on my way north and then get a new FMM in a couple of days. Maybe thinking of trying to just get a new one before even handing it in at that time, as it won't have expired just quite yet. I also don't recall any computer or anything when i got it.

jeremias - 11-21-2010 at 08:48 PM

I found a thread on some other site that would imply there shouldn't be much of an issue getting another one.

http://forumsfallinginlovewithsanmiguel.com/showthread.php?t...

oxxo - 11-22-2010 at 04:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by oxxo
Although I got my FM3 two months ago, I have received consecutive FMTs at Tecate over the last 5 years, going in and out as many as 8 times a year. Nobody ever said anything to me.


I should add that I never turned in my visa when leaving Mexico by car. I just applied for a new one at the border upon re-entry when the current one had expired. Otherwise I just kept using the current one until the 180 days had expired.

I have never been asked for my visa by Immigration at the border. Why should they since no visa is required within XX miles of th border. Once beyond the frontera, Immigration would have no idea that you have been out of the country. And I would never volunteer that information either.

The day that Mexican Immigration has a border station like the ones for re-entry into the US, and every car is stopped, and proof of valid visa is required.......that will be a new ball game..........and the death of American border tourism. That ain't gonna happen soon. The cartels are making too much money from Americans on one day trips to the border towns. :no:

gnukid - 11-22-2010 at 08:25 AM

Many people are getting replacement FMM and staying in BCS without returning North, though the standard line is you must return North... unless you apply ask for a new one prior to expiration. If you have any trouble do not get upset or make a scene, just say okay and try again with an assistant.

The bottom line is Baja wants people to stay and they want to collect the money from you.

Hook - 11-22-2010 at 09:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
There is no sysytem for them to collect the things as you drive out of Mexico...


Not true. In Sonora, there are sizeable immigration checkpoints that are near, but not adjacent to the border. They provide easy means for returning the FMM/T, if you choose.

I got a new FMM in late October at K21 south of Nogales, AZ. I had been out of the country for 3 months and did not return my old FMT when I left in July. At the time I received it, I pointedly asked the INM agent if I could receive another one immediately, when this one expired in 180 days. He said, YES. I also asked a person at the INM office in Guaymas while my wife was applying for a new FM-3. He also said, YES.

I suspect that INM is probably going to monitor (via computer) when you actually are issued an FMM. Rather than deal with the logistic headache of processing the returning of them, maybe they will just try and ensure that you dont apply for more than one in 180s, if that is the length you stipulated on your original FMM.

But who really know. This is Mexico.

What we are hearing is that you really must apply for a new FMM at one of these border-adjacent INM stations or risk paying a fine if you try and get one at an office further down in the country. Some have reported the fine as being close to 100.00US. Gnukid's post above doesnt directly address this fine issue.

BTW, the INM office in Guaymas was cleaned out of the agents who were on the take to expedite, much like the Loreto office was. Replacing them are agents who are efficient and who can call someone over who speaks English, if needed. There is actually an assisting agent who greets you in the waiting room, sees what you are there for and then relays this to the agents behind the counter. It is altogether a much better experience.

Well, except for the clusterf#*k parking situation. :no:

[Edited on 11-22-2010 by Hook]

David K - 11-22-2010 at 09:19 AM

Sorry... I should have been more specific... drive out of Baja, not mainland Mexico.

gnukid - 11-22-2010 at 09:54 AM

Everything changes... often. At the moment there seems to be no problem getting a new 180 visa in BCS but again, you should proceed prior to expiration and you should have a good reason besides, I don't know what I am doing here... Something like, I arrived, I really like it here in Baja California Sur and will be continuing on a sailboat, car, plane etc... and will hopefully return to see you again for a permanent visa! Say something nice and reasonable and dress nicely, don't be a slouch.

Unfortunately I have to make this point, many gringos don't seem to understand that they come across as very rude which leads to miss-communication.

Try this:

1) wake up early, take a shower
2) put on clean clothes and shoes
3) gather your passport identification and your current visa in a folder, make copies of both
4) go to INM
5) greet people as you enter
6) smile
7) look for a sign in book and sign in and sit down
8) wait patiently for your turn - do not get angry if someone goes ahead-there may be special circumstances
9) when asked to-step up to the window, step forward and introduce yourself by your full name, greet the agent by their name (tag) and ask how they are? Listen for the answer and when asked a question answer back honestly.
10) briefly and clearly explain your circumstance, e.g. I came for a visit some months ago and got my visa and have proceeded 100% correctly, now I like it here so much, especially the people, well also the food, the tamales, frijol, also the colors and art, I would like stay a bit longer prior to my departure by - car, boat, plane etc... Would you please grant me a new visa for this portion of my trip, please?

Remember that the agent should become your ombundsman, speaking on your behalf and assisting you, but they will do so only if you are someone they would like assist as you are requesting special circumstances.

Good luck

shari - 11-22-2010 at 10:03 AM

gnukid's post is right on...so much depends on your attitude and personal presentation so please take all of this advice and you should be successful.

mtgoat666 - 11-22-2010 at 10:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
Try this:

1) wake up early, take a shower
2) put on clean clothes and shoes
3) gather your passport identification and your current visa in a folder, make copies of both
4) go to INM
5) greet people as you enter
6) smile
7) look for a sign in book and sign in and sit down
8) wait patiently for your turn - do not get angry if someone goes ahead-there may be special circumstances
9) when asked to-step up to the window, step forward and introduce yourself by your full name, greet the agent by their name (tag) and ask how they are? Listen for the answer and when asked a question answer back honestly.
10) briefly and clearly explain your circumstance, e.g. I came for a visit some months ago and got my visa and have proceeded 100% correctly, now I like it here so much, especially the people, well also the food, the tamales, frijol, also the colors and art, I would like stay a bit longer prior to my departure by - car, boat, plane etc... Would you please grant me a new visa for this portion of my trip, please?


that's all good advice. regarding #1, how early must I wake up? :lol:

DENNIS - 11-22-2010 at 10:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
we also like the food, the tamales, frijol,



Yeah....tell him how much you like the beans. If he isn't already sitting down, he'll have to quickly before he blacks out from laughter. :lol::lol:

Jes kiddin', Gnu. All of your points are really good, but it just struck me as funny.
I'd better sit down. :lol::lol::lol:

jeremias - 11-22-2010 at 11:27 AM

Thanks all. :) I'm still wondering if it's a better idea to try to turn in my original FMM before crossing, or to just apply for a new one before it expires, with all the possible explaining in my feeble spanglish it might entail.

bajaguy - 11-22-2010 at 11:29 AM

just get a new one........if they start asking questions, give the standard Nomad reply.........

No habla fumar............

DENNIS - 11-22-2010 at 11:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jeremias
Thanks all. :) I'm still wondering if it's a better idea to try to turn in my original FMM before crossing, or to just apply for a new one before it expires, with all the possible explaining in my feeble spanglish it might entail.


If you arn't going further south of Sauzal, I don't know why you bother with it anyway.

jeremias - 11-22-2010 at 12:11 PM

Ok! I'll be back in a couple days and post my experience, as either a visa holder or a newly illegal alien. :)

jeremias - 11-22-2010 at 12:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by jeremias
Thanks all. :) I'm still wondering if it's a better idea to try to turn in my original FMM before crossing, or to just apply for a new one before it expires, with all the possible explaining in my feeble spanglish it might entail.


If you arn't going further south of Sauzal, I don't know why you bother with it anyway.


I'm usually no further Ensenada, but maybe an occasional trip further down. I guess there isn't much need if I'm never asked for it. I think i was just stressing over the idea of "only 180 days in a calendar year" I had read.

Hook - 11-22-2010 at 12:33 PM

You do know not to try and get one in Ensenada, right?

jeremias - 11-22-2010 at 12:35 PM

Yep, I believe they fine you there.

shari - 11-22-2010 at 12:35 PM

just remember Jeremiah that your mexican car insurance is void without it...alot of people dont realize that!

DENNIS - 11-22-2010 at 12:42 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by jeremias
, I don't know why you bother with it anyway.


I'm usually no further Ensenada, but maybe an occasional trip further down. I guess there isn't much need if I'm never asked for it. I think i was just stressing over the idea of "only 180 days in a calendar year" I had read.


Yeah...the details will drive you nuts if you let them.
Don't know how much further down you mean, but if you get past San Quintín, you should consider having one.
Till then, you're the only one who knows how long you've been down here. Just stay out of trouble and you'll be just fine.

For those here who think that being a purist when complying with laws and regulations has no option....well, that's not the way this part of the world works. Life here in North Baja strangely parallels that of the Mexican expat in the states. Largely a "don't ask - don't tell" situation.
Learn to flow with what's accepted as normal.

DENNIS - 11-22-2010 at 12:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
just remember Jeremiah that your mexican car insurance is void without it...alot of people dont realize that!


Shari...not necessarily true. Many policies are written for tourists who arn't required to get visas due to the short duration in country.

jeremias - 11-22-2010 at 12:47 PM

I guess I should check with Bajabound then. I've just got the license policy. Details, Details..............

David K - 11-22-2010 at 01:20 PM

Go ahead and call them but I recall Geoff saying there is no penelty from their carrier if you dont have a tourist card.

jeremias - 11-22-2010 at 03:22 PM

Just got a email back from Bajabound saying that my policy doesn't have any visa requirements, at least mine being a license policy doesn't anyways.

shari - 11-22-2010 at 03:54 PM

I stand corrected ...thanks...but as you said, the policies are designed for short stays and so if you decide to stay longer...maybe your insurance wouldnt be valid...I'm just sayin make sure you have all your ducks in a row.

jeremias - 11-22-2010 at 04:08 PM

Thanks Shari,....I'm sure trying!

sancho - 11-23-2010 at 11:27 AM

I think driving in Mex with anything more than
a 3 day policy without some form of fmm
is a risk I'm not willing to take, The 7 day
fmm is FREE, you need a fmm if in Mex anywhere
more than 72 hr. I have never seen an Official
written statement from Mex Immigration as
to the contrary. I've had it told to me by Mex Imm
that you don't need one for 7 days, etc.
But if something happens, where you are dealing
with a cop, Mex Insurance Adjuster, or other authority,
it doesn't matter what the Mex Imm border Officer
said, or what a US Mex Ins Broker said, they
are not relevent at that point. It is the interrpretation
of the Mex Ins Adjuster, as to your LEGAL STATUS
in Mex as a tourist

David K - 11-23-2010 at 06:00 PM

It is better to have it and not need it... then to need it and not have it!!!