Germanicus - 8-7-2004 at 10:45 AM
I've got a statement from somebody about Mexican Employees.
Quote: "If you employ a Mexican (at the Baja) you hardly can get rid of him anymore. In case he is lazy or not coming to work at all for several days,
or other reasons, you cannot fire him because of certain Mexican laws.
The employee can stay away from work for days and days, you are running into deep trouble but you cannot fire him and employ a maybe more reliable
guy."
End Quote.
Q.: Is that statement correct?
Is it somehow impossible to fire a completely unreliable employee?
Does anybody know about the legal situation in re. of employees?
Thanx for your input to this problem.
Germanicus
Input
jrbaja - 8-7-2004 at 11:07 AM
I believe the laws are upheld in Baja Sur more than they are up here as far as employment rules. Could be trouble.
Unless, you do some research into your employees. When you find an area you like, you will need some local labor to get started.
Ask around in the restaurants, local villages, hardware store, about "day labor" and if they can recommend someone. They can!
You are not sure about how many days you will need them but nothing permanent.
This is the crucial time to find your employees. If employee #1 works out well without promises of future employment, have him bring some friends
depending on your needs.
If not, do it again and explain your reasons to whomever recommended him. As long as you have been fair, you have every right to have an employee
who exceeds your expectations. Many will!
This is the only way for success in your plans. If you find a hard working, honest foreman, you will do nothing but good and have assistance from
all his (or her) relatives and friends for all of your endeavors and needs.
Viva Mexico!!
Employee troubles...
Anonymous - 8-7-2004 at 11:11 AM
I learned about the law "el ley federal del trabajo" the hard way and it would take lots of time explaining. but I've since learned.
some of those statements are true, actually all are if you do not know how to work around that law, but if you know your way around it and prevent
these things from happening in the first place you can do just fine. trouble is there's no resource you can go to that will tell all you'll need to
know, except for the "school of hard knocks"... I could help but my advice will come with a consultants fee.
fly fishin' Pam
Advice, Free?
mcgyver - 8-7-2004 at 11:51 AM
Fly Fishing Pam,
You have it right ,some of this stuff that we try to give away for free costs us big dollars to learn ,then when we try to help some one else avoid
the pit falls, we are accused of being untruthful!!
I for one do not post anything about Baja that I have not experinced my self and know to be true at that time! For somewhere I do not know then I
know who does, for the La paz, Los Barriles, Cabo area I know people who live there and have been involved long enough to know and I Belive them when
they tell me something.But it might not apply up north.
Now for my word , I consider it to be good, if I tell you I will meet you at Coco's at 1AM on the 4th of July that is what I mean to do, if I am not
there then you better send out a search party!
Unfortunatley some of the people who have been on this board do not keep there word in actions, deeds or information. I know I can't spell so don't
notify me. I aslo forget a lot so remind me! But don,t calll me a liar!
PS: I to learned about the Mexican labor and tax laws the hard way, 3 years of time not counting the money!
JESSE - 8-7-2004 at 01:12 PM
I used to be in charge of 80 employees at a restaurant i was managing, and i can say that theres plenty of ways of making a bad employee leave without
breaking the law.
Germanicus - 8-7-2004 at 01:49 PM
anonymous,,, you better erad mcgyvers posting very good.
Your offer to give advice but only against a fee, well that is ^&%$#*(&^% !
My adjucation does not allow me to type that word, but it is the most ugly word I know.
Not having the guts to indentify himself, but trying to get a fee for an advice in a question and answer forum, well that is what I call "Character".
Your soul shall burn in the hells fire for your wrongdoing on earth, > see also jrbaja's posting 'DO HUMMERS'.
Obviously there is some controversy here.
jrbaja - 8-7-2004 at 03:07 PM
The people who are pretending to know with very few years of personal experience obviously don't.
Or else they sucked at it.
The ones who are asking for money, for a little information, don't belong in Baja no matter how many fish they don't catch.
Capitalism hit's Baja through the greedy gringos. Pam, you should be ashamed!
If you follow the rules I use myself, I have run const. crews down here off and on for 9 years,which I just told you, you will have no problem.
Another key factor is to not act like a gringo as they will most definitely want to rip you off every chance rather than protect you from those that
would.
Find yourself a good foreman. First!
If he is screwing up, replace him. Depending on where you end up, I may be able to help you out with some names.
I signed that post..
Anonymous - 8-7-2004 at 05:41 PM
and I speak from experience.
sorry i have forgotten my password as i;m on a different system right now.
but the person asking the question does not know what a can of worms he is getting into. the differences between mexican law and those of other
countries is great. beyond some of our understanding.
i believe that the experiences that i have and the advice that i can pass on would save a potential business owner tens of thousands of dollars
depending on the size of his project. with that said...
you came for serious advice on this very important business issue to an internet chat board full of folks who do not live here, do not speak the
language, and do not employ eny mexican legally? those who do and have will understand my words.
fly fishin' Pam
Germanicus - 8-7-2004 at 07:29 PM
jr, we do speak the same language and we both agree in what's good behavior or not to aproach folks living in their own country.
For to understand what u r pointing out, there is no need for me to read between the lines.
We will meet, as sure as Mount Everest doesn't move and discuss all the suggestions you made.
I appreciate your help already.
So till then, take care Buddy, I keep your u2u's and will keep you by your word.
Anonymous, whatever you wanna say, whatever suggestions you wanna make, don't point your fingers on anybody and start personal attacks.
That's what you did.
And all your offered help for a fee >>>>
shame on you.
You can say now whatever you want about all your experiance you might or might not have.
You made a fatal mistake by asking for money for an advice.
Have a nice word and I bet most or all guys will forget it soon.
And by the way: The person asking a question has a name. Clearly printed in the left column in blue.
And that person is signing all his post with his username again.
So what?
Well, and answers from folks who do not live in BC , do not speak the language and do not employ Mexicans, those posts or advice will soon be detected
as bull...., as there are others who really know.
(Do you agree, jr?)
So far, anonymous, pretending to have the great knowledge and not coming up with some good advice to the question makes you a just a bull....er asking
for money.
My suggestion to you: come down from the high horse you are sitting on and join all the nice folks in this forum.
>>> Even my beer to the join-in-BCS-party is free.
Despite jr's big laughter!
Germanicus
Anonymous - 8-8-2004 at 10:31 AM
Germanicus, it seems that you are the one making personal attacks on this thread. I don't see any personal attacks from Pam and her suggestion of
sharing her experience for a fee isn't out of line, let me tell you when you move to Mexico you'll find everything costs. As to your questions about
Mexican Labor Law, you'll need a good attorney to guide you.
David K - 8-8-2004 at 11:02 AM
I think Germanicus is a nice enough fellow, but he is very naive regarding doing business in Mexico. It is humorous to some of you that he talks about
how he never has been to Baja but wants to start a business there, bringing dump trucks and bull dozers across the border, and acting like Baja is
just another U.S. state rather than part of a foreign country.
Most of us know, from spending time in Mexico's Baja California, that just isn't so easy. Mexico is very protective of its citizens and will not allow
any non-Mexican to work in Mexico unless it can be proven that no local person can perform that service. Equipment must be obtained in Mexico to
benefit Mexican business, and not brought in from the U.S.. That an FM-3 must be obtained to lease any land and no foreignor can own land in most of
Baja, because of the distance to the ocean isn't beyond the minimum (around 50 miles). There are many tricks around this constitutional law (such as
held in bank trust, form a Mexican corporation, etc.)... But, it is Mexico and not Texas. There is much government interfierence and possible 'pocket
padding' to speed things along.
I wish Germanicus well, but I strongly urge him to spend at least one month vacationing in Baja before the big move. You need to find a location for
your RV Park, you need to know the area, you MUST become friends with the local people... integrate with them, speak their language, respect their
customs. Invite them to a fiesta at your camp. Make sure it is what YOU want to do.
We here on Nomad love Baja... from knowing Baja (its plusses and minusses). I have been going to Baja for almost 40 years, and I hope to for 40
more... I would love to live there and be close to the land that so deeply is ingrained in my soul. Perhaps that will be true someday soon.
Germanicus, for your dream to be successful, please consider the suggestions and logic of them. I look forward to meeting you (with Bob H) and sending
you south... prepaired!
Baja Information
mcgyver - 8-8-2004 at 07:21 PM
AS usual David ,your answer is consise and truthful as is JRBaja,s is. The point I was trying to make to Germaniocus is that when he asks a
question,(especialy about a country he has never been to) and some one like me or you ,ever wanting to help some over the pitfalls spends 2 or 3 hours
researching,even to the point of going to the Mexican Consuls office 20 miles away to get a face to face answer to one of his questions and then when
he don't like the answer instead of asking are you SURE, he comes on this forum and and says he dosen't beleive me, about the trash or the dump truck
or bulldozer. Well everyone that has done any business in Baja or on the mainland knows that you are not just going to push your way past the Mexican
System!!
Now that said if he has mutli-millions of dollars to spend any thing is possibe but if he does what the hell is he doing on this board??? And as far
as having experince in Baja just how many years do you need to qualify as to know that there is trash on the side of the road?? I am going to San
Felipe Tuesday and I am going to count and take pictures of the wercked and burnt cars and (some) of the trash on HW8 from Agadones to Mexicalli and
HW 5 to San Felipe and south of SF.
I don't know how to post them on here but I bet David K. will help me. And yes we try to help keep Baja clean!
And no I am not going to answer any more of Germannciuos e-mail,post or any thing else , He had his chance and called me a liar and YES spelling
police, when I set POed I can not spell and can not any way and don't care.
AS soon as it gets a little cooler and the DRs release my wife I will be going back to Puertecitos, BCN where I live 9 months of the year, My friends
know where.
David, you have my phone# cll me when he shows up at the border crossing with that dump truck pulling the bulldozer call me collect, I want to see
how an expert does it!
PS: I have never asked for money for helping anyone in Baja for anything including some long hours at retreiving stuck newbees and long trips guiding
people to some of the back country spots and I don't think David K. has either, not everyone on this forum can make that statement! (OH I forgot I
took a bottle of Rum one time, and I will always take a cold beer!)
David K - 8-8-2004 at 07:57 PM
Hmmm... I wonder if there was a missed message in your emails with Germanicus? I always assume people to be good and am quite surprised at those who
are not. Heck, there is even some evil out there!
I hope it was a mistake and Germanicus and you can work it out.
No, I do not charge for sharing Baja information... It would be nice if someday I could earn an income from helping others have fun vacations, instead
of installing sprinklers and lawns!
But for the Baja Nomads, never a charge!
Ok you win...
Anonymous - 8-9-2004 at 01:22 PM
...here's my advice.
don't do anything until you learn to speak, read and understand spanish.
buy the latest copy of the ley federal del trabajo and while you're at the libreria the ley federal de seguro social. (JR may want to look into this
one with those day laborer comments)
then hire a good and honest lawyer to set up your corporation handle your importations and a good accountant that won't rip you off- if you can find
them!
things may be lax in BC but they are pretty stiff in the tourist town where the labor pool is savvy on this particular law. there are some who make
their living at "getting fired illegally"
that's all the free advice I'll give up
buenos suerte
fly fishin' Pam
David
Debra - 8-9-2004 at 01:53 PM
I'd stick with the sprinklers and lawns, after 20yrs. of "helping others have fun vacations" I can tell you that the money sucks and you spend a
large portion of that money on aspirn from the head-aches that "fun" causes.
It's a draw Pam
jrbaja - 8-9-2004 at 01:54 PM
Get a foreman you can trust. First.
(See first posts.)
Then, If you decide to actually continue with your project after the initial disappointments you will definitely experience, your foreman, (1
person hired temporarily) will guide you through all the rest of the legalities that will be necessary for an endeavor of this type. He will have
relatives and know people if he is of any worth as your foreman.
The only way to go through the legal necessities you are about to go through is with a Spanish speaking assistant that cares about you and your
project.
This reality works both ways as well. If you prove yourself to be a good, caring human being, you will have the best of help with all future
problems and the support of the townspeople.
If you don't, you may as well forget it entirely!
Find a foreman.
That'll be $2.00
Germanicus - 8-9-2004 at 02:36 PM
well, well, well, tension high, but no need for it.
There is a lot of misunderstanding here.
mcgyver/MAX: I never called you a liar.
I send you a u2u, explaining everything.
Read it before accusing me and then come back to work it out.
It was you who shocked me with the 'trash-all-over-the-place' story on the phone when I called you.
And it was you who shocked me with the 'dont use Mexican employees, you never will get rid of them again' story.
I do reserve the right to place a question here how bad that trash problem really is, and getting other nomads opinion.
Same with the employee question.
I never said that I do not believe you.
Show me the thread where I did it and I truly will apologize > but first show me that I called you a liar in this forum !
What's wrong with getting a second opinion? (or even more)
And the many answers to the garbage and employee question are telling me that my questions were well placed and from overall interest.
Look at the nearly 1000 clicks to the garbage question and you will understand the importance of that issue and how interesting my question(s) are to
many visitors to this forum.
I never said that I want to bring a dozer cross the border.
Tell me where > if you want to be right.
I said I want to bring my Mercedes truck. That's it.(never a dozer. I said I will use a dozer down there to clean the land for my project, but never
said other than buying it in Mexico.)
And I know already how to get the Mercedes into Mexico, so what's wrong with that?
I let you know when I will cross the border with the Mercedes, O.K.? (But please hide in the bushes. As you do not want to talk to me (see your post),
I do not want to see you)
So, you don't need to use DavidK as a middle man.
To 'the other anonymous'.
My post to 'anonymous>fly-fishing-pam' was in reference to the thread "Hummer" where 'anonymous pat' launched an bad attack on jr > without any
reason.
I guess 'anonymous pam' got the message right and there is no anymosity from my side so far.
At this point: Thanx 'anonymous pam' for your advice. I red it well.
You are right, 'the person who is asking the question' (that's me my friend, I do have a name) does not know what a can of worms he is getting into.
Damn right!
And that's why I am asking questions here
If that is not right, well, then, there are other forums covering baja.
So, can somebody please tell me what's wrong here?
P.S. the 'other anonymous' who posted on 08.08.2004 at 11.31 AM, are you the one who is or was in Amarillo?
Germanicus - 8-9-2004 at 07:38 PM
I do have one more question.
It was said by mcgyver like this:
If he(and that is me, I gues) has multi-million dollars to spend, what the hell is he doing on this board.
My question: what is the powerty-line I have to meet to be elligible to post here?
Germanicus
#1 - 8-9-2004 at 08:20 PM
I'd put in my two cents worth, but with todays economy thats about half of my portfolio.
Margie is the "other" anonymous.
The Gull - 8-9-2004 at 08:46 PM
I thought something
jrbaja - 8-9-2004 at 10:02 PM
sounded familiar there
elizabeth - 8-10-2004 at 08:02 AM
I am new to this board and have been reading as many of the topics as possible to get a feel for issues and personalities. This topic and the garbage
in Baja thread have seriously puzzled me...and I have a question or two or maybe three for Germanicus. Please don't construe this as hostile or
disrespectful. It is pure bewilderment on my part.
Why do you want to start a business in a country you have never visited? Why Mexico and specifically Baja? How do you know you'll like it?
Germanicus - 8-10-2004 at 09:07 AM
Very good question, Elizabeth.
And upfront: you don't need to apologize for any question. (there are no bad questions, only bad answers) and in genaral, you can talk to me like to
an old cow, I am not that sensitive if the question comes with a good tone.
My answer to you.
A) Why Mexico? I do concider the Baja not really as Mexico (hey guys no shooting please, I know that there are Mexicans living and it is their
country) what I mean is, the Baja is certainly different from the mainland.
I did talk several times to the lawyer of the Mexican Consulate in San Antonio ( he is a Mexican !) and he made me believe that the Baja is some kind
of an "unwanted child" to the mainland or the feds in Mexico City.
The Feds do not like to spend big money into the Baja.
He once said: "Over the time the Mexicans from Baja will all go to California, and the Gringos will develope the Baja."
True or not, maybe that's worth another posting.
B) Do I like it?
That's what I really can't decide at this time. I do not make up my mind about something I never have seen or I don't have knowledge about.
That's why I always said I wanna go for at least half a year for vacation to get the feeling and knoweledge.
Now, this garbage problem (not the employee problem) made me change my mind. I'm going without an RV first, just by car, for to get this feeling.
And because I do have certain offers from [yes friends already I might say] which are very encouraging.
And meanwhile we know that we can keep 'our little strip of Baja California" clean.
And that is important to us.
If we (I am happily married and my Deern [that's a German word] is a part of everything) decide, "yes" it is not that bad (the garbage problem) we
will return to Texas and get the 5th wheeler and then stay for 6 month, a year ? >>> for to prepare our goals.
But there is C) We both are people who are eager to work. No, nothing like workaholics, we do like relaxing as well and a German beer (a Mexican as
well) is always welcome for breakfast or lunch break.
But we like to work, kinda challange-work.
Our son is going to Hollywood, he got a contract there.
Why should we stay in Fredericksburg/ Texas?
Maybe someone will call us 'adventurers' in a sense of discovering new ventures, new business possibilities, in general new things, discovering and
managing successfully the so called 'impossible'.
And keeping a strip of the Baja clean seems to many here impossible (I guess)
Well, we could have decided for the Dominican Republique.
And we looked at that.
Then we had serious thought with Belize.
Both very nice countries.
But somehow it was the Baja with all the opportunities and challanges.
No, we did not flip a coin.
It was a long process.
Somehow there was our son kinda point.
He is 25 now, still singel as he is smart, and he loves his parents. (no, no mothersson or wimpy one. He is a tough guy. just, we developed a good
relationship to each other)
We on the Baja, he in Hollywood, that makes him travelling more easy than to the Dom.Rep. or Belize.
And he wants to come home every 4 weeks or so.
O.K., if some folks are throwing their garbage in front of our place every morning, that makes us leaving maybe again.
But we learned already (and that's the same all over the world) if you try to intigrate yourself into the existing systhem, if you go foreward towards
the people who lived there for ever, if you are polite, not ''gringo snobby", if you help poeple in need of help,,,, in one word, if you try to be
like those who own that land, maybe then we will succed.
Succed to live there with the locals together in harmony, and to succed in our business > which then comes automaticly(not: automatically).
If you got any other question(s) please don't hesitate to ask.
It seems to me that you placed your question for to figure out how somebody can have the guts to consider something like we do.
Right or wrong?????
or maybe you want to declare us as "crazy" ? LOLOLOLOLOL
Have a nice day and have fun with my answers if you like to.
Germanicus
That
jrbaja - 8-10-2004 at 09:37 AM
was a very good answer.
As far as the garbage is concerned, that isn't really an issue that can't be solved easily.
There are way more and much worse turnoffs about living and operating a business here as you will find out.
But, people that enjoy challenges thrive and do very well in this not so hospitable environment.
And I think your Mexican consulate friend may be living in the past on some of his ideas. Has he been to Baja ?
At this point in time, Mexico City is not only aware of Baja but focusing a lot of their attention on it! And it shows.
As far as the Mexicans leaving and the gringos developing, I wouldn't rule that out. But I am doing everything in my power to make that not happen
in some areas. By providing jobs and a future for them.
Best piece of advice, hurry every chance you get because others are buying it all up as we speak.
quote: "Why stay in Fredericksburg Texas"
Debra - 8-10-2004 at 09:45 AM
BECAUSE IT'S BEAUTIFUL! 
I lived in Blanco for awhile, beautiful area.
Good luck on your adventure. 