BajaNomad

Lot in Baja

Steve&Debby - 12-7-2010 at 09:19 PM

We are looking into purchasing a lot in a gated community in the Rosarita area. The land is leased. Does anyone have any information on how you would transfer ownership of a leased lot or insight on any pitfalls?

Also we will be putting a motorhome on the property and leaving it there year round. Our plan is to non op the RV (stinkin California is taxing us out of the State). Is there a problem in Mexico if our RV has an expired registration. We will obviously purchase insurance in Mexico and do not want to run into problems. Can we buy any type of property insurance in Mexico once the building is completed?

We are also going to have a palapa type Bathroom/Kitchen/Livingroom built. Any leads on a good (reasonable) person who could handle this type of improvement?

Any advise would be appreciated!

[Edited on 12-8-2010 by Steve&;Debby]

DENNIS - 12-7-2010 at 09:29 PM

You will have to deal with the landlord to negotiate a new rental/lease agreement. Research the landlord to make sure he's honorable. Anything negative is a red flag.

No problem with the RV registration as long as it isn't on the road while expired.

Be careful when you insure your new structure. The policy must be explicite about the type of construction...wood, block, steel etc. If, for instance, it's a wood framed house, they'll sell you insurance all day but won't pay off if the policy doesn't say it's wood framed.
Someone else here will explain that better than I.

Good luck on your project.


.

[Edited on 12-8-2010 by DENNIS]

Udo - 12-7-2010 at 09:32 PM

California was the reason I registered my RV in South Dakota.

mcfez - 12-7-2010 at 10:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
You will have to deal with the landlord to negotiate a new rental/lease agreement. Research the landlord to make sure he's honorable. Anything negative is a red flag.

No problem with the RV registration as long as it isn't on the road while expired.

Be careful when you insure your new structure. The policy must be explicite about the type of construction...wood, block, steel etc. If, for instance, it's a wood framed house, they'll sell you insurance all day but won't pay off if the policy doesn't say it's wood framed.
Someone else here will explain that better than I.

Good luck on your project.


.

[Edited on 12-8-2010 by DENNIS]


Best advice ever you could get: talk to everyone in that campos about the landlord. Reach out and ask questions! Leasing land is a good deal IF you have a good Landlord. It's also a nightmare with a bad Landlord.

Make sure this landlord IS the owner of the land or the legally responsible caretaker!!!!!! Check it out at the public office...don't rely on anyone's "word" about this from the campos.

Can the adjoining lots be built to block your views?

How much % is the resale of the lot (goes to landlord)

Is the water and power paid for (some camps co op the ults and put the cost on the lots)

Can you pick your own house builder or do you have to use someone from the landlord?

Can you rent the unit out?

The list of questions are endless.....do not trust till you get solid info!

Is the landlord current with his/hers taxes?

Leases in Mexico cannot exceed ten years. In any case.

We own land and lease land. It aint California style business!

I am sure there is going be a hell of a lot of BN responders giving you LOTS more cautions!

DENNIS - 12-8-2010 at 08:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
I am sure there is going be a hell of a lot of BN responders giving you LOTS more cautions!


Something occured to me late in the night......it was indicated that they are going to "purchase" a lot on leased land and seemingly had no additional info which led me to believe they were dealing with the current tenant alone.
It must be understood that the current tenant is not in a position to transfer control of his rented property any more than he would be able to transfer a handshake agreement.
That point alone, that the tenant hasn't disclosed this, would put me on edge. Full disclosure is being denied from the outset.
I would seriously rethink this transaction until all the variables are on the table. Keep asking here for input. Eventually you will have the full picture.
Don't trust anybody. You could be setting yourself up for disaster.


.



[Edited on 12-8-2010 by DENNIS]

Bajahowodd - 12-8-2010 at 03:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
I am sure there is going be a hell of a lot of BN responders giving you LOTS more cautions!


Something occured to me late in the night......it was indicated that they are going to "purchase" a lot on leased land and seemingly had no additional info which led me to believe they were dealing with the current tenant alone.
It must be understood that the current tenant is not in a position to transfer control of his rented property any more than he would be able to transfer a handshake agreement.
That point alone, that the tenant hasn't disclosed this, would put me on edge. Full disclosure is being denied from the outset.
I would seriously rethink this transaction until all the variables are on the table. Keep asking here for input. Eventually you will have the full picture.
Don't trust anybody. You could be setting yourself up for disaster.


.



[Edited on 12-8-2010 by DENNIS]


Excellent point. I was scratching my head as I read this thread. Something didn't explicitly add up.

Marc - 12-8-2010 at 07:00 PM

Are title searches reliable in Mexico? Would it be appropriate in this case?

DENNIS - 12-8-2010 at 07:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Marc
Are title searches reliable in Mexico? Would it be appropriate in this case?



Not really. If you can't find out all you need to know by talking to the neighborhood, that's just one more reason to back off.

desertcpl - 12-8-2010 at 07:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
I am sure there is going be a hell of a lot of BN responders giving you LOTS more cautions!


Something occured to me late in the night......it was indicated that they are going to "purchase" a lot on leased land and seemingly had no additional info which led me to believe they were dealing with the current tenant alone.
It must be understood that the current tenant is not in a position to transfer control of his rented property any more than he would be able to transfer a handshake agreement.
That point alone, that the tenant hasn't disclosed this, would put me on edge. Full disclosure is being denied from the outset.
I would seriously rethink this transaction until all the variables are on the table. Keep asking here for input. Eventually you will have the full picture.
Don't trust anybody. You could be setting yourself up for disaster.


.



[Edited on 12-8-2010 by DENNIS]



Dennis

you know you can trust me

red-neck.jpg - 34kB

Don't understand

Dave - 12-8-2010 at 07:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Steve&;Debby
We are looking into purchasing a lot in a gated community in the Rosarita area. The land is leased. Does anyone have any information on how you would transfer ownership of a leased lot or insight on any pitfalls?


Are you saying the lot currently under lease to someone or are you considering purchasing the lessee's rights?

wessongroup - 12-8-2010 at 07:56 PM

Some really excellent advice on how to get into leased land down in Baja... thanks it all helps....

DENNIS - 12-8-2010 at 08:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
the lessee's rights?



:lol::lol::lol: That's a good one. :lol::lol::lol:
Thanks, Dave.

Steve&Debby - 12-8-2010 at 10:19 PM

OK,I just spoke to the guy that is leaseing the lot from Ejido.He said we would meet with the landowners and sign a new 10 year lease on the lot he has.He is heading south,Costa Rica,so he wants to sell us his improvements;septic system,water lines,level lot and rocked ready to pull an RV in and hookup. Ejido lease $133.00 per month.
Thanks for the advise,keep it comeing:biggrin::biggrin:

mcfez - 12-8-2010 at 10:55 PM

My beach front lease is $750.00 per year!!!!!!!!

Edido land is known to have title issues.

Sell price is what? Septic $1200.00 Water line $12-1400.00 Improvements cost 4-5ooo.

Humm....I bet this guy is going to Costa Rico! Something stinks my friend. I returned your U2 check it.

Dave - 12-9-2010 at 12:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Steve&;Debby
OK,I just spoke to the guy that is leaseing the lot from Ejido.He said we would meet with the landowners and sign a new 10 year lease on the lot he has.He is heading south,Costa Rica,so he wants to sell us his improvements;septic system,water lines,level lot and rocked ready to pull an RV in and hookup. Ejido lease $133.00 per month.
Thanks for the advise,keep it comeing:biggrin::biggrin:


My main concern would be whether the Ejido will sign a new lease. Just because the old owner has a new "ten" doesn't mean it's transferable to you. You will need to negotiate a new lease. 'Taint legal till you do.

Also, you do realize that all the improvements the old owner is selling don't belong to him, right? And, won't belong to you. After your term expires there is no guarantee your lease will be renewed.


I'm guessing this is the community is located south of la Mision on the bluff?

tripledigitken - 12-9-2010 at 01:05 PM

Why not rent? By this observer violence in Baja Norte is getting worse. Read all the available news and other blogs/websites.

If you make that investment and decide the situation in RB is not what you expected you will be the loser. There's no rush to buy by most accounts.

Just another view.

Ken

[Edited on 12-9-2010 by tripledigitken]

DENNIS - 12-9-2010 at 01:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
I'm guessing this is the community is located south of la Mision on the bluff?


Maybe it's Gull-Land. :o

DENNIS - 12-9-2010 at 01:21 PM

OK...Here's how you might want to finish this off. Keep the Motorhome tuned up and in good running condition....save the tires and wheels [keep them out of the sun]...whatever you build, use nuts and bolts. That way nothing is fastened to the Ejido land and you can take it with you when the Ejido quadruples your rent.

And, you do know Ejido's only exist to sell property and take it back after the money changes hands, don't you? I know you're not buying, but don't be misled in the future.

Dave - 12-9-2010 at 02:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
And, you do know Ejido's only exist to sell property and take it back after the money changes hands, don't you? I know you're not buying, but don't be misled in the future.


To be fair, I know a few folks who have a lots there. Haven't reported any problems with the Ejido. There have been issues with obtaining electric, water and phone service, but most are aware that they are basically renters and could be evicted at any time. For Gringos, Ejido rental contracts aren't worth the paper they're printed on... so the maxim remains:

Never invest more than you're comfortable at walking away.

At $133 per month I'd think it's an acceptable risk.

DENNIS - 12-9-2010 at 03:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
To be fair, I know a few folks who have a lots there. Haven't reported any problems with the Ejido.



My reference was to land purchases. It was just thrown in as a general caveat for an offer that may come up in their future.
Who knows? It pays to be aware.

Steve&Debby - 12-9-2010 at 04:02 PM

We can only make it down once or twice a year at this point in time.We would prefer the San Felipe area. Are there any houses that could be rented in the San Felipe area?
Yes, this is in the La Mission area.Is that good or bad?

[Edited on 12-9-2010 by Steve&;Debby]

mcfez - 12-9-2010 at 06:07 PM

Pete's Camp: rentals in there....but can be noisy on holidays

Campos Ocotillo: several places to rent currently


El Dorado Ranch: places on the mountain side of highway. Lou here knows everyone there I think...u2 him.

Local internet web papers have listings:

Blueroadrunner.com
SanFelipe.mex.com


I will be there in March for Spring Break. Be very happy to escort you around town. Show you some nice places and all.

Maybe.....just maybe.....we'll run into DavidK at Shell Beach. He holds his yearly Spell it Right Camp there....1000's show up to learn spelling stuff like Puertotictios :o

[Edited on 12-10-2010 by mcfez]

bajaguy - 12-9-2010 at 06:14 PM

Wonder if DianaB still has her place for sale at LaMission????

Dave - 12-9-2010 at 06:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Steve&;Debby
Yes, this is in the La Mission area.Is that good or bad?


Not necessarily either. The key is dealing with the Ejido. Realize that if they decide, for any reason, you're not welcome...you're out. But, if you don't go crazy and build expensive structures, live in a trailer or moho and have low rent I don't see how you could get hurt. That place is probably the least expensive and closest to the border spot I know of.

DENNIS - 12-9-2010 at 07:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Wonder if DianaB still has her place for sale at LaMission????



She passed away.

DENNIS - 12-9-2010 at 07:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Not necessarily either. The key is dealing with the Ejido. Realize that if they decide, for any reason, you're not welcome...you're out. But, if you don't go crazy and build expensive structures, live in a trailer or moho and have low rent I don't see how you could get hurt. That place is probably the least expensive and closest to the border spot I know of.


Best advice available. Pay attention. We don't give you these caveats because we don't know what we're talking about. We're freakin' experts. The only one's available to you, and...we don't charge.

allroads10 - 12-11-2010 at 06:40 PM

I have a lot in Campo de Trailers which is owned by the Ejido La Mision and is the property to which you refer. It is a great deal as far as price goes. We have been there almost three years now.

It is much safer by far than the community along the north side of the river and as safe as Punta Piedra (PP) with which we share the exit off the toll road at km 70.

Also we have less road noise than either PP and Santa Maria and no through traffic.

Any "expert" who would claim that a Mexican lease is not as legally binding as any such contract in the USA is either uninformed or provincial.

My neighbors include two doctors with practices in the USA, two couples who previously owned restaurant chains in the USA before they retired to our Campo, and a practicing attorney from San Diego who reviewed Mexican lease law and the legality of the lease, itself, before he entered into it.

Those who hold a lease here are able to sell the lease by the terms of the lease itself. During the run up in Baja real estate prices investors were buying multiple leases here to resell as they cost nothing but the first years rent to acquire then and still cost the same now. Again, a great deal.

This only location NOB that compares to our campo is La Jolla Farms; I know because my sister once owned a home there and I spent lots of time at her place when I was younger.

Try renting in La Jolla Farms for $133 a month!

If you wanted an unimproved lot, you could deal directly with the Ejido. For an improved lot, you do need to deal with the present lease-holder. They would simply sign over the lease to you but that action must be witnessed by the Ejido president (Fidel) and Fidel will then issue a new lease in your name.

The Ejido charges 10% of the sales price to transfer ownership, an amount I think that is totally reasonable if you think about it.

Also, unlimited well water is $10 a month and this is in addition to the lease fee but that is cheap compared to what you will pay for water in, say, San Diego or Phoenix!

This is a great place to live and the neighbors all look out for one another. We used to leave our place unattended for weeks at a time and never had a problem. Once I left a door ajar and it blew open in the wind, a neighbor closed it and gave me a call to fill me in and let know that all was OK.

Since then I hired a local to keep an eye on it for me. I call her when we are going there and she goes in and dusts, fluffs the linens, and puts on a pot of coffee so it's waiting for us when we get there.

And, frankly, I don't know why anyone with the opinion that one should not "invest more than they can afford to lose" would want the initial and on-going expense of a fidecomiso, anyway. And besides, that same sentiment would hold true whether you are investing in the stock market, real estate, or baseball cards so it is trite at best.

If you have any specific questions for someone who actually holds a lease there, is a Mexican-American and whose wife is a Mexican citizen, and who speaks and can read Spanish, please do not hesitate to ask.

DENNIS - 12-11-2010 at 08:10 PM

Wecome to BajaNomad, allroads10. Thanks for the clarifying info.
What is the standard lot size for $133 per month? Are they view lots? I'm not familiar with the place.

monoloco - 12-11-2010 at 09:56 PM

A Mexican lease is only as good as the landlord, you are pretty much at their mercy because if you end up in court it will take ten years to sort out. The maximum duration of a Mexican lease is 10 years, so even if you win your case, by the time it goes through the Mexican legal system your lease will have expired.

Steve&Debby - 12-11-2010 at 10:20 PM

allroads10 check your U2U

allroads10 - 12-12-2010 at 09:20 AM

Dennis: The standard lot size is just over 5000 sqft (500sqmts to be exact). The $133 figure is for lots on the cliff that command the best views; as I understand it there are no cliff lots available. Lots on rows 2, 3, and four start at $110 with an annual increase of 10% for the first ten years. (All figures actual; from my lease.)

There are several residents who have been here over twenty years now. They were here when it was truly a trailer camp with no running water, electricity or phones. I crack up when I hear their stories of reading by lamp oil and propane heaters! But they did so because they recognize the uniqueness of the location. We are on a bluff below a mesa with 360 degree views that include the ocean, the river, the mountains, and night lights from Santa Maria. And it is just off the toll road so easy access with a Pemex and Oxxo at the ramp, as well. (Great for late night ice cream runs!)

But this is old Mexico up here--no condos, no HOA, dog-freindly, country setting, dirt roads. I run my quad out of the garage and straight to the beach or river. The Ejido sponsors an annual rodeo with a huge closing night bonfire that is an attraction you have to see to believe.

And the Ejido is always there to help if you need some heavy lifting or jump start or push or someone to change a tire. We have a few single American women who are very comfortable living here alone. If lots here were for sale, I would imagine they would sell for $50,000 to $100,000.

As for the warning some have offered not to build, that would depend on how much comfort you can afford and how small a space you are willing to cram yourself into. There is one home here that is over 10,000 sqft with the best views I have ever seen, including my sister's cliff-side place in LJFs.

And as for the statement that the lease is only as good as the landlord? Probably true for leases with private parties but an Ejido in a corporate-like entity established by the government that is unique in Mexican law. A lease with an ejido is distinctly different than renting from some Jose.

By the way, there is no provision in Mexican ejido law that prohibits or excludes leases in excess of ten years--simply does not exist and standard Mexican contract law has never been adjudicated to apply to ejidos. (Yes, I went to law school.)

And, again, the campo is just one business that Ejido LM has been in for decades here locally.

Comments by some here lead me to believe that they do not fully grasp Mexican contract law in general or ejido law, specifically. Someone once said that one-half of all the money we pay in taxes is wasted but that the problem is figuring out which half.

In that same vein, one half of the "information" posted in forums like this one is wrong--again, the problem is figuring out which half. Good luck with that!:?:

DENNIS - 12-12-2010 at 09:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by allroads10
Dennis: The standard lot size is just over 5000 sqft (500sqmts to be exact). The $133 figure is for lots on the cliff that command the best views



Large lot for that price.

I think I know where you are if it's on the south side of the river past the toll road bridge.
Quote:
Comments by some here lead me to believe that they do not fully grasp Mexican contract law in general or ejido law, specifically.



Yeah....I would be one of them and why wouldn't I? I've seen the nightmares develop with Ejido land sales and leases and, please, don't try to tell us that we just don't know. We arn't allowed to know.
Contract law? It's hard enough to find an attorney who, in spite of his claims to brilliance, understands the law.
Lawyers who have taken on Ejidos as clients know every dirty trick in the book to negate a business deal after the funds have changed hands. It's become a lawyer speciality.
You'll have a hard sell with the "If you only had the facts" line of reasoning here. It would be best saved for the future waves of tourists out of the states who want to own a little piece of Mother Mexico.
Quote:
In that same vein, one half of the "information" posted in forums like this one is wrong--again, the problem is figuring out which half. Good luck with that!:?:


Half is more than enough.
What is it? Mexicans won't even begin to trust an Ejido in a business deal. Why are we being targeted as the biggest suckers on the block?
Oh, yeah....I know why. It's because we're defensless when it comes to the Ejidos, Mexico's Sacred Cow. What function they serve since the resolution of Agrarian Reform makes no sense other than appeasment of a social group that would be the first to violently rebel.


OK...you got me started, but I'm done with it. Go on Google and sell Ejido land in Croatia. They're perfect customers since they won't have a clue either.

mcfez - 12-12-2010 at 10:02 AM

Dennis...

We own lots in the Ejido of San Felipe. Never had an issue. Yet!
Doing business in any country south of us is risky business....that is so true.

I wouldn't recommend anyone to build their dream home on Ejido land if you could not afford to lose it. With a limited capital and limited knowledge of "the way things are done" on Ejido ...it's a risk. Go a safer route. You are right Dennis.

[Edited on 12-12-2010 by mcfez]

tripledigitken - 12-12-2010 at 10:14 AM

Any investment in Mexico right now is very risky, ejido or not.

Look at the trouble Nomads are having trying to sell homes from Baja Norte to La Paz. Some have all but walked away or have been trying to sell for 2 years or longer.

So, I have to agree, don't invest thinking you will capture your cost when you are ready to move back to the States. There will come a time when most will have to throw in the towel, usually for health reasons, and hoof it back NOB.





[Edited on 12-13-2010 by tripledigitken]

DENNIS - 12-12-2010 at 10:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
I wouldn't recommend anyone to build their dream home on Ejido land if you could not afford to lose it. With a limited capital and limited knowledge of "the way things are done" on Ejido ...it's a risk.


That caveat is over-used here, Deno. It's just too simplistic to be realistic.

"Don't have anything in Mexico that you can't afford to lose or walk away from."

It's easy to say from a secure, unmolested point of view, but let the wheels of expropriation start start rolling toward your door and the fatalist point of view will make no sense. The injustice of it all will be the only thing that's left to come to terms with.
Who wants to be victimized, even knowing the possibility exists?
Who wants to walk away from their property, their dream, just because they knew it could happen and it's all just the luck of the draw?

It isn't only the loss of property one would have to deal with....it's also a loss of time when, at our age, an excess of that doesn't exist.

Why would the bully in the school yard take your baseball away from you? Because he can. Doesn't make it palatible, does it.



.


.


[Edited on 12-12-2010 by DENNIS]

It's just too simplistic to be realistic...maybe :-)

mcfez - 12-12-2010 at 11:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
I wouldn't recommend anyone to build their dream home on Ejido land if you could not afford to lose it. With a limited capital and limited knowledge of "the way things are done" on Ejido ...it's a risk.


That caveat is over-used here, Deno. It's just too simplistic to be realistic.

"Don't have anything in Mexico that you can't afford to lose or walk away from."

It's easy to say from a secure, unmolested point of view, but let the wheels of expropriation start to roll toward your door and the fatalist point of view will make no sense. The injustice of it all will be the only thing that's left to come to terms with.
Who wants to be victimized, even knowing the possibility exists?
Who wants to walk away from their property, their dream, just because they knew it could happen and it's all just the luck of the draw?

It isn't only the loss of property one would have to deal with....it's also a loss of time when, at our age, an excess of that doesn't exist.

Why would the bully in the school yard take your baseball away from you? Because he can. Doesn't make it palatible, does it.


.

[Edited on 12-12-2010 by DENNIS]


Perhaps the difference with me is this : My home down in San Felipe is a vacation home, not a place where I plan to retire too. Lease the land. Build and enjoy. Nothing real expensive. A walk away. ....it's cheaper and less painful than sitting in a Mexican court of law.

If you had build a house, retired in it....why yes...fight like a dirty dog! Buying the land outright, building a dream home...sure the cost is way up there...$100,000 +

My house:
Lot lease buy $8000.00
Little vacation house $ 15000.00
10 years of lease payments. $7,500.00
$30,500 plus chance
Divide by 120 months = $244 per month

So for about $2100.00 a year...I can stay in Baja. I used to pay far more for a staying at fancy hotels yearly in Baja.

Long term...this joint of mine has paid itself off. I have no loss to walk away.

It is this type of thought that let me build a home in Baja and not worry about legal issues. It's not for everyone to think this way...but I have zero worries :-)

My high regards to you Dennis, Deno

[Edited on 12-12-2010 by mcfez]

allroads10 - 12-12-2010 at 11:37 AM

triple: There is no place in the world where more people are walking away from their properties than in the USA. The number of Americans who have done so in Mexico has to be miniscule in comparison...no numbers in that regard but the number is so big in the USA that it has to be a tiny fraction of that number in Baja.

Dennis: You seem to be implying that somehow expropriation of real property is rampant in Mexico but in terms of sheer numbers it is much more common in the USA. Consider the innumerable government auctions held on courthouse steps every day of the week across the USA where countlesss homes are put on the block day after day after day!

These people are losing their houses for not paying property taxes or bond assessments or for other forms of tax liens. Nowhere else in the world does expropriation of personal real property occur more than in the USA.

In fact, I would argue that there is no such thing as personal real property because governments always retain the right to tax the land and expropriate for back-taxes and imminent domain, as well. You seem to want to make it sound as if Mexico is unique in this regard somehow when that is simply not the case.

mcfez: You wrote that you would recommend a safer route. What would that be exactly? Since I think I can assume you don't mean a lease w/a private land owner, I will conclude that you mean a bank trust. Is that correct? If so, would you be willing to explain your reasoning?

I do, by the way, think that leases on Mexican property held in a bank trust are preferable in some circumstances but that so are leases with private parties and with corporations and ejidos, as well. There is no one answer that is correct in every situation and almost certainly a bank trust is neither necessary nor even preferable for the utilization specified in the original post and for a whole host of reasons.

DENNIS - 12-12-2010 at 12:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by allroads10
Dennis: You seem to be implying that somehow expropriation of real property is rampant in Mexico but in terms of sheer numbers it is much more common in the USA.



I didn't imply that at all. Besides, I'm not talking about the US. I am specifically talking about Baja.
We have to stay focused.

DENNIS - 12-12-2010 at 12:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by allroads10
I do, by the way, think that leases on Mexican property held in a bank trust



It's mixed metaphores such as this that cause me to drink. :lol:

Cypress - 12-12-2010 at 01:27 PM

allroads10, How can you compare US property ownership with those of the 3rd. world? Get a grip on reality.;D

mcfez - 12-12-2010 at 01:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by allroads10
triple: There is no place in the world where more people are walking away from their properties than in the USA. The number of Americans who have done so in Mexico has to be miniscule in comparison...no numbers in that regard but the number is so big in the USA that it has to be a tiny fraction of that number in Baja.

Dennis: You seem to be implying that somehow expropriation of real property is rampant in Mexico but in terms of sheer numbers it is much more common in the USA. Consider the innumerable government auctions held on courthouse steps every day of the week across the USA where countlesss homes are put on the block day after day after day!

These people are losing their houses for not paying property taxes or bond assessments or for other forms of tax liens. Nowhere else in the world does expropriation of personal real property occur more than in the USA.

In fact, I would argue that there is no such thing as personal real property because governments always retain the right to tax the land and expropriate for back-taxes and imminent domain, as well. You seem to want to make it sound as if Mexico is unique in this regard somehow when that is simply not the case.

mcfez: You wrote that you would recommend a safer route. What would that be exactly? Since I think I can assume you don't mean a lease w/a private land owner, I will conclude that you mean a bank trust. Is that correct? If so, would you be willing to explain your reasoning?

I do, by the way, think that leases on Mexican property held in a bank trust are preferable in some circumstances but that so are leases with private parties and with corporations and ejidos, as well. There is no one answer that is correct in every situation and almost certainly a bank trust is neither necessary nor even preferable for the utilization specified in the original post and for a whole host of reasons.


There is no right answers for Mexican properties.
Let's look at the El Dorado complex in San Felipe (and many others).....folks bought in there with secured paperwork. Will...Steward Title screwed up and the joint went haywire for a long time!

Native land ejido, though the land reform of the mid 18th century was aimed at breaking up the large church holdings, it also forced the Indians to give up their ejidos. The village lands were restored by the 1917 constitution. In 1992 the Salinas government revoked the ban on the sale of ejido land. Well...there are current legal issues still popping up from who da hell owns "that lot"!
I have investments down there...leasing to Fido....it's all a game of odds. I was taught never to put all your eggs in one basket. One just never knows what may pop up. The Mexican Govt is famous for having unclear regulations.

Go to the ejidos in N. San Felipe...the govt office is there for ejidos business. One can and will find out rapidly that a simple transaction can induce suicidal thoughts to your mind after dealing with them! Sorry...but many clerks I have dealt with don't seem to be educated to their job description.

So here we are again. I have been posting for a very long time here....and this subject never seems to get cleared up....just like the Mexican regulations! Again I will say this: If you cannot afford to lose...dont place your monies in Mexico. This goes for the average folks that vacations in Mexico, gets all excited ...and buys in without any sort of homework...or lack of it. They cannot go back and forth from the USA or Canada or (?) with legal nightmares....much less afford a decent land lawyer.

CMH International is a good outfit to work with if you are investing chunks of money down there....if you can afford them!

allroads10 - 12-12-2010 at 05:55 PM

mcfez: Thanks for the feedback.

We are in agreement that there is no single answer to taking title in Mexico.

Also agree in terms of putting your eggs in one basket; not in Baja, certainly but not anywhere else for that matter.

And, ultimately, if you want to live in one place in particular, you need to take the title available. I consider the time I am able to spend in La Mision a privilege; it is a beautiful and unique location. And I am entirely satisfied with the lease arrangement w/the Ejido.

And I certainly I do not live in fear that someone is scheming to take my money or what is otherwise "mine." And, as I wrote previously, one never owns the land as long as the government has the power to tax it or claim imminent domain.

I do not consider the money spent there to be an investment in the sense that I look to sell for a profit in the future but, rather, in the sense of an investment in my well-being as going there allows me the peace and quiet to unwind and think and fall asleep to the sound of the waves.

And plus I can ride my quad to Maganas for fish tacos whenever the urge strikes me...I consider it a bargain!

Bottom line of all this.......

mcfez - 12-12-2010 at 08:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by allroads10
mcfez: Thanks for the feedback.

We are in agreement that there is no single answer to taking title in Mexico.

Also agree in terms of putting your eggs in one basket; not in Baja, certainly but not anywhere else for that matter.

And, ultimately, if you want to live in one place in particular, you need to take the title available. I consider the time I am able to spend in La Mision a privilege; it is a beautiful and unique location. And I am entirely satisfied with the lease arrangement w/the Ejido.

And I certainly I do not live in fear that someone is scheming to take my money or what is otherwise "mine." And, as I wrote previously, one never owns the land as long as the government has the power to tax it or claim imminent domain.

I do not consider the money spent there to be an investment in the sense that I look to sell for a profit in the future but, rather, in the sense of an investment in my well-being as going there allows me the peace and quiet to unwind and think and fall asleep to the sound of the waves.

And plus I can ride my quad to Maganas for fish tacos whenever the urge strikes me...I consider it a bargain!


We all made it to Baja one way or another :-) Save me a taco.

DENNIS - 12-12-2010 at 08:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
allroads10, How can you compare US property ownership with those of the 3rd. world? Get a grip on reality.;D



How can you question someone who says he went to law school? :lol:
The last thing in this world I'd be telling the world is that I started law school.
What??? DNF???

The second to last thing I'd be crowing about is that my US Law School Education, or part thereof, has anything what so ever to do with Mexican law.

Gawwwdammm....this guy is so arrogant. I would hate to be his neighbor.


.



[Edited on 12-13-2010 by DENNIS]