BajaNomad - BAJA ROAD - Present Dangers - BIkers And Joggers

BAJA ROAD - Present Dangers - BIkers And Joggers

Pompano - 12-10-2010 at 06:08 AM

BIKES ON THE BAJA ROAD
Some info on The Baja Highway. (Mex 1)

Many people travel from the USA and Canada to Baja by car, RV, motorcycle or bicycle. The Transpeninsular Highway is well maintained, but it is very narrow and winding in many places. The middle section is the most remote and desolate. Driving it alone can be a serious challenge and driving at night is not recommended. Horses and cows, in addition to other wildlife often cross the road or stray right into the road! This is a serious hazard. Trucks in particular are very dangerous and be alert whenever anyone is passing, or head on collisions may result.

The largest and widest load I ever witnessed was around 1976 or so when 4 large-large rigs hauled down HUGE generators to La Paz. These rigs were traveling very slowly and jammed traffic completely...maybe 14 feet wide or so. They covered the entire road and you had to wait for clearance from their support vehicles..both directions. That convoy took 2 weeks to make it from Tijuana to La Paz.

Mostly the Road has been repaired, renewed, and re-engineered so many times by now, it is hard to get a figure on it's average width today. Mostly it is still TOO NARROW..so stay on your toes when pulling your rig!

BIKES ON THE BAJA ROAD:

By bicycle:

We as a society are trying to promote biking as a healthy, active alternative to driving.

Therefore, it is a given that we need bike lanes, safer routes and better educated drivers/bikers.

I am stating personal observations and posting photos I have taken of biking events chanced upon in my travels.

Biking the Baja Road today as compared to yesteryear.

There seems to be little bicycling down the Baja peninsula these days. Most of the big races involving thousands of Mexican and a few American contestants have long since disappeared because of the new high volume of traffic due to Baja 'improvements'. It peaked around the early 90's I would think. Today you see very few singles or small groups. The word is out...the road is too dangerous now...for most. :rolleyes:

The early 70's-80's were full of adventuring bicyclers. I made many, many trips in that time period. Because I realized the limitations of that poorly contructed and narrow highway, I personally never had any problems with them, and quietly wondered at the stamina to make such a trip.

But...having made frequent trips on that highway and having had my share of close calls from passing, overtaking, on-coming, and stalled vehicles, I will simply state the dangers inherent on the Baja Road...which to me is from San Quentin to Cabo. The dangers are there for bicyclists and motorists alike. Here is the highway....you may draw your own conclusions as to how to drive it safely.

The Baja Highway
Width of the pavement: 19 feet
Width of the shoulder: 0 feet

Width of a truck/bus/RV: 8 feet
Added width for mirrors: 1 foot
Width used by two passing trucks/etc: 18 feet

Safety separation used by
two passing trucks/etc: 1 foot

Room left for a bicycler: 0 feet

In 1971-73 The Baja Road was constructed to just accommodate two passing 8-foot vehicles, and no more! Many of the roadsides drop off anywhere from a few feet to a few hundred feet (in these extreme cases, there will usually be a low guard rail right at the edge of the pavement). Also, the edge of the pavement will often have chunks broken off or washed away, leaving "edge potholes" which have to be dodged.

There you have it....bien viaje.

IF YOU DO BIKE THE BAJA HIGHWAY:

There is a slow but steady trickle of travelers riding their bicycles in Baja. On the Transpeninsular Highway this is fairly straightforward. A traditional touring, or hybrid bike is an excellent choice for the Transpeninsular. The middle stretch of the road and the peninsula present regions that are both very mountainous and desolate. Riding a bike on the numerous other roads would certainly require a mountain bike, and would be preferable with a support vehicle due to the difficulty in acquiring basic supplies (the main concern being water) and the difficulty carrying baggage on rough roads.

Trying to travel by bike unsupported off the Transpeninsular is for those who don't distinguish between masochism and adventure. Either on or off the Transpeninsular, good quality tires, lots of patches, spare tubes, and other puncture resistant measures are important, due to the large numbers of vicious thorns.

Drivers on the Transpeninsular Highway are often very reckless, however most drivers treat cyclists with more respect (perhaps due to their novelty) then cyclists get elsewhere in North America. If one chooses to bike in what is normally a very hot climate and incredibly remote region at times, the whole endeavor should only be undertaken with much prudence and planning.

Present Day:

These photos were all taken on the same day...Dec 8th, 2010. All occurred between Sta. Rosalia and Coyote Bay.

Very, very dangerous bikers...and even a couple of suicidal walker/joggers. Jog the Baja Road..? Inconceivable and unbelievably naive.

It is only a matter of time before there is a fatality..or multiple fatalities.

Bikes and joggers..best get aware...before it's too late.

[Edited on 12-10-2010 by Pompano]

[Edited on 12-10-2010 by Pompano]

mcfez - 12-10-2010 at 06:33 AM

Pacific coast highway.......same thing right above San Francisco. These pea brain jerks are riding the street with death next to them.

I just love to drive around a turn......there they are...right smack in the road.

monoloco - 12-10-2010 at 06:40 AM

I would also add that drinking and driving is a national sport in Mexico, particularly on weekends, so it would be wise to avoid biking from Saturday afternoon through Sunday.

wessongroup - 12-10-2010 at 07:38 AM

Thanks, for "showing" what all that drive the road down your way have been talking about... along with the exact dimensions of the road which all will share while doing anywhere from 4 mph to 70-80 mph...

Strange that folks are very alert to the dangers of TJ, drinking water, carrying emergency items.. yet in some cases, completely dismiss any danger related to a perceived "right" to travel in Mexico as they "wish" when it comes to a particular mode of transportation..

Must agree, it is only a matter of time for one and/or more folks to get killed or maimed out on that road ... and one should consider first responder time... you might be waiting a bit alongside the road... with broken bones and bleeding all over the place before someone shows up to plug and patch ya up...

Hope all stay safe.... please drive carefully ......

[Edited on 12-10-2010 by wessongroup]

Marc - 12-10-2010 at 08:04 AM

As I have stated here before; I am a retired bicycle racer with thousands of miles of road training. I WOULD NEVER BIKE RIDE THE BAJA HIGHWAY!

windgrrl - 12-10-2010 at 08:15 AM

Very, very true. Passed these folks on the way down. Have cycled many miles in the past and highways in general have their risks.

Now having seem the delicate samba between tons of steel on wheels on the Mex.1 curvas peligrosas...it is indeed upping the risk factor to add the two wheeler 2-step.

This photo

bajajudy - 12-10-2010 at 10:34 AM

always said it all for me. I think that JR posted it first.

ouch.jpg - 44kB

Mike99km - 12-10-2010 at 10:40 AM

If the biker knows the the hazards and decides to make the ride, good for them. I know this isn't the common consensus here, but some people are more prone the take risks then others. When you know that risking life and limb are a stake and still chose to do the the activity, well have at it.
Most people are risk averse and criticize those that are not. Some of us have take up sports that have a high leave of risk and we choose to pursue then with vigor. That is our choice and we except the out come of our mistakes.
I don't think it would take very long for biker riding down Hwy 1 to figure out how dangerous it is. It's their choice to continue riding. What ever happens after that is on them.
We can always say they died doing what they loved. :yes:

sancho - 12-10-2010 at 10:48 AM

Agree with the statement about drinking drivers,
I have a rule to avoid driving on Sundays in Mex,
not that Mex has a corner on the market re: drunk
drivers, but the weekends seem especially risky.
A good # of Bicycle Travellers headed so., appear
to be Euro's, flying a Country flag from their bike,
I think they look at a map of Baja, and see a road,
and don't realize how narrow, shoulderless it
is

tripledigitken - 12-10-2010 at 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike99km
If the biker knows the the hazards and decides to make the ride, good for them. I know this isn't the common consensus here, but some people are more prone the take risks then others. When you know that risking life and limb are a stake and still chose to do the the activity, well have at it.
Most people are risk averse and criticize those that are not. Some of us have take up sports that have a high leave of risk and we choose to pursue then with vigor. That is our choice and we except the out come of our mistakes.
I don't think it would take very long for biker riding down Hwy 1 to figure out how dangerous it is. It's their choice to continue riding. What ever happens after that is on them.
We can always say they died doing what they loved. :yes:

I agree with your thoughts on pursuing high risk activities and I have/do some myself. Many of those activities however only risk injury to the risk taker, that is not the case here. So "when they die doing what they loved" they will likely drag some innocent person/s into the mix.

That is what angers many here IMO.

David K - 12-10-2010 at 11:14 AM

Another great Hwy. 1 photo from the late jrbaja...

DSCF0034 copy.jpg - 26kB

Barry A. - 12-10-2010 at 11:37 AM

Several times we hauled a 24' SkipJack to Bay of LA, but on one trip down we ruined 3 trailer tires by dropping them off the pavement in just such a predicament as pictured, on 2 different occasions. We also lost the drivers-side rear view mirror to a passing truck. That was the final straw, and we gave up hauling that boat down forever more---------crazy!!!!!

I won't even comment on the bicycle riders except to say that more than once they nearly caused me to crash, and scared the beeJesus out of me, not-with-standing the constant annoyance of having to brake hard to avoid hitting them. It is their slow speed that causes the most headaches, IMO. We NEVER travel that road over 55 mph, and mostly a lot slower than that. It is dangerous enough without having to deal with snail-slow bikes.

Barry

LancairDriver - 12-10-2010 at 11:53 AM

TextWatch out mirror!

baja Road 1.JPG - 34kB

David K - 12-10-2010 at 11:54 AM

Awesome photo!!

sanquintinsince73 - 12-10-2010 at 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by monoloco
I would also add that drinking and driving is a national sport in Mexico, particularly on weekends, so it would be wise to avoid biking from Saturday afternoon through Sunday.

Google translation:

MEXICO CITY-In Mexico it is estimated that about 200 thousand people driving under the influence of alcohol from six in the evening, Thursday through Saturday, resulting in increased accidents, injuries, suicides and homicides, said Roy Rojas, International Road Safety Advisor of the Pan American Health Organization.

"Se estima que hasta 50 por ciento de las muertes por accidente de tránsito está asociado al consumo de alcohol", dijo el especialista tras alertar a las autoridades a extremar precauciones durante los periodos vacacionales, informó Milenio. "It is estimated that up to 50 percent of traffic fatalities associated with alcohol consumption," said the specialist after alerting the authorities to exercise caution during holiday periods, Milenio reported.

"México es precisamente uno de los países que está penosamente en la vanguardia en lo que es consumo de licor y, lógicamente, las consecuencias negativas que tiene no sólo son muertes y lesiones por accidentes de tránsito, sino que está vinculado también a los homicidios, suicidios ya la violencia doméstica". "Mexico is just one of the countries that are painfully in the forefront of what is consumption of liquor and, of course, has negative consequences not only deaths and injuries from traffic accidents, but is also linked to the killings, suicides and domestic violence. "

Por ello, México está entre los primeros lugares, a escala mundial, de consumo de alcohol así como de accidentes, por lo que exhortó a las autoridades a ser más estrictos con las sanciones para disminuir a menos de 0.5 el nivel de alcohol permitido a los conductores. Therefore, Mexico is among the first places worldwide, alcohol consumption and accidents, and he urged the authorities to be stricter penalties to decrease to less than 0.5 alcohol level allowed drivers.

O bien, de plano, aplicar la tolerancia cero, que abarque no sólo las carreteras federales, sino también los estados y los 127 municipios donde se ha detectado mayor prevalencia de conductores alcoholizados. Or, flat, apply zero tolerance, encompassing not only the federal highways, but also states and 127 municipalities that have detected a higher prevalence of drunk drivers.

En México existe un subregistro de los accidentes automovilísticos que ocurren al año, por lo que la cifra puede ser hasta seis veces mayor a las estadísticas oficiales que marcan 890 mil accidentes, cerca de 17 mil decesos, 40 mil lesiones con discapacidad y 700 mil hospitalizaciones, reconoció Arturo Cervantes del Centro Nacional para la Prevención de Accidentes, de la Secretaría de Salud. In Mexico there is underreporting of crashes that occur each year, so the figure may be up to six times higher than official statistics that mark 890 000 accidents, about 17 000 deaths, 40 000 injuries with disabilities and 700 000 hospitalizations acknowledged Arturo Cervantes National Center for Injury Prevention, the Ministry of Health.

Por cada fallecimiento, hay al menos 17 hospitalizados en México, dijo Rojas. For every death, there are at least 17 hospitalized in Mexico, Rojas said. Mientras que en el mundo mueren cada año cerca de 1.2 millones de personas por accidentes de tránsito y entre 20 y 50 millones resultan heridas. While in the world die each year about 1.2 million traffic accidents and between 20 and 50 million are injured.

La Secretaría de Salud detalló que los accidentes viales son la primera causa de muerte entre la población de entre cinco y 35 años y la segunda causa de orfandad en México. The Ministry of Health explained that road accidents are the leading cause of death among people aged between five and 35 years and the second leading cause of orphans in Mexico.

Además de que provoca la hospitalización de 750 mil personas, la discapacidad de 40 mil y ocasionan un costo económico a la nación por más de 110 mil millones de pesos. Besides causing the hospitalization of 750 000 people, 40 000 disability and cause an economic cost to the nation for more than 110 billion pesos.

El funcionario explicó que tan sólo las aseguradoras de automóviles registran hasta 5 millones de accidentes, lo que indica que se ha convertido en un problema de salud pública que genera gastos a la nación por más de 110 mil millones de pesos. The official explained that only car insurance to 5 million recorded accidents, which indicates that it has become a public health problem that is costly to the nation for more than 110 billion pesos.

Cervantes explicó que alrededor de 2 millones de adolescentes sufren lesiones por accidentes de tránsito y una tercera parte de ellos termina con fracturas, 25 por ciento con golpes o moretones, uno de cada cinco con raspones superficiales o profundos y 15.6 por ciento, corte o perforación de piel. Cervantes said that about 2 million teenagers are injured from traffic accidents and one third of them end up with fractures, 25 percent with bumps and bruises, one in five with superficial or deep scratches and 15.6 percent, cutting or drilling skin.

Estudios del Instituto Nacional de Psiquiatría indican que en México se consume alcohol puro con un promedio per cápita de 5 litros, y que se equipara a lo que se registra en los países desarrollados y altamente bebedores, como Estados Unidos, y está por encima del promedio latinoamericano. Studies of the National Institute of Psychiatry in Mexico indicate that pure alcohol consumed per capita average of 5 liters, which equates to what is recorded in developed countries and high drinkers, the United States, and is above average Latin America.

La Encuesta Nacional de Adicciones establece que 5.5 por ciento de la población tiene abuso y dependencia de bebidas alcohólicas, 9.7 por ciento de hombres y 1.7 por ciento de mujeres. National Addiction Survey states that 5.5 percent of the population is abuse and alcohol dependence, 9.7 percent of men and 1.7 percent of women.

Sólo en el IMSS, el consumo de alcohol y las distracciones al conducir vehículos, provocó que en siete meses se otorgaran más de 80 mil consultas por accidentes en la vía pública. Only in the IMSS, alcohol and distractions while driving, caused in seven months will be awarded more than 80 000 visits for accidents on public roads.

México forma parte de la lista de 10 países en el mundo que registran altos niveles de mortalidad y de accidentes automovilísticos. Mexico is part of the list of 10 countries in the world that high levels of mortality and car accidents.

Se tratan de naciones que, junto con India, China, Estados Unidos, Rusia, Brasil, Irán, Indonesia, Sudáfrica y Egipto, concentran prácticamente 62 por ciento de dicho problema de salud pública. These are nations that, along with India, China, United States, Russia, Brazil, Iran, Indonesia, South Africa and Egypt, concentrated almost 62 percent of the public health problem.

En México 10 estados se han convertido en un foco rojo de lesiones por accidente. In Mexico, 10 states have become a flashpoint of accidental injury. Se trata de Baja California, Tamaulipas, Quintana Roo, Aguascalientes, Nayarit, Sonora, Colima, Distrito Federal, Jalisco e Hidalgo. This is Baja California, Tamaulipas, Quintana Roo, Aguascalientes, Nayarit, Sonora, Colima, Distrito Federal, Jalisco and Hidalgo.

En cuanto a egresos hospitalarios, en primer lugar se ubica Colima, después le siguen Baja California Sur, Tabasco, Aguas Calientes, San Luis Potosí, Campeche, Yucatán, Sinaloa, Guanajuato y Nayarit. As for hospital discharges, first Colima is located, then you are Baja California Sur, Tabasco, Aguas Calientes, San Luis Potosi, Campeche, Yucatan, Sinaloa, Guanajuato and Nayarit.

Operativo especial Special operation

Como una medida para disminuir los accidentes en las carreteras aledañas al Distrito Federal, la Secretaría de Seguridad Pública capitalina dio el banderazo inicial del programa Conduce sin Alcohol Carretero. As a measure to reduce accidents on the roads surrounding the Federal District, the capital's Public Security Ministry gave the go initial program without Alcohol Carter Drive.

El director de Aplicación de Programas Preventivos de la SSP, Othón Sánchez Cruz, señaló que el dispositivo se mantendrá en vigencia específicamente durante dos fines de semana. The director of Preventive Programme Implementation of the SSP, Othon Sanchez Cruz, said the device will remain in effect specifically for two weekends.

El operativo arrancó este viernes 9 de julio y se mantendrá el sábado 10 y domingo 11, para posteriormente ser reinstalado el viernes 16, sábado 17 y domingo 18 de julio. The operation started on Friday 9 July and will continue on Saturday 10 and Sunday 11, later to be reinstated on Friday 16th, Saturday 17th and Sunday 18th July.

David K - 12-11-2010 at 09:08 AM

Funny David

(unless you are a jogger)

mtgoat666 - 12-12-2010 at 08:44 PM

i note that this thread of posts by haters of bikers and joggers appears to contain mostly posts by old guys with pot bellies :lol:

perhaps a partsan crowd that hasn't sat on a bike for a couple decades (your 1 mile trip on beach cruiser doesn't count)

anywho, not time to debate you old fat guys.

cheerio!

p.s. most joggers facing traffic can react plenty fast to avoid the periodic cars. sad you fat turds have forgotten what life was like before you had snail-like reflexes

[Edited on 12-13-2010 by mtgoat666]

elfbrewery - 12-13-2010 at 04:21 PM

Pompano -
Very good information and worthy caution. I too have biked PCH with the log trucks and find the Transpeninsular Highway much safer. A few of us in the Mulege area enjoy biking (walkers and joggers, too) along the Bahia Concepcion and are well aware of the dangers. Our friends think we have a death wish. We keep our eyes and ears alert, but also feel comfortable during the long gaps in passing traffic. Drivers in Baja are more accustomed to looking out for animals in the road, broken down vehicles, road hazards, etc. so a person sharing the road walking, jogging, riding a bike is not a surprising sight. And unlike the U.S., the drivers do not react with rage when we share the road with them. The truckers are really great. And I show them my appreciation by pulling off the road where possible to avoid potential problems near curves or other tight places. With the right attitude and defensive techniques, riding bike is no more dangerous than driving and a lot more pleasurable.
Having said all this, there are times to avoid the road. Some of these are: during the Baja 1000 rally week, during Semana Santa and extra caution during February when a lot of caravans of RVs come down -- yikes! Gringos feel the highway is for vehicles only and don't really know how to drive their rigs (or why would they be in a caravan??).

elfbrewery - 12-13-2010 at 04:25 PM

BTW, I didn't mean ALL gringos (silly me), I meant the ones who depend on others to do the exploring of the Baja for them.

bajalera - 12-14-2010 at 02:53 PM

Useful info, Pompano.

Two things I liked about that miserable old road was that it was safe for driving at night as well as drinking by day. At speeds of 5 or 10 miles an hour, you could see the really bad hazards in the glare of headlights in time to avoid them, and a Pacifico or four made the derive seem to go faster and farther by day, when the few other vehicles on the road were cruising along at similar speeds.

Pompano - 12-14-2010 at 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elfbrewery
Pompano -
Very good information and worthy caution. I too have biked PCH with the log trucks and find the Transpeninsular Highway much safer. A few of us in the Mulege area enjoy biking (walkers and joggers, too) along the Bahia Concepcion and are well aware of the dangers. Our friends think we have a death wish. We keep our eyes and ears alert, but also feel comfortable during the long gaps in passing traffic. Drivers in Baja are more accustomed to looking out for animals in the road, broken down vehicles, road hazards, etc. so a person sharing the road walking, jogging, riding a bike is not a surprising sight. And unlike the U.S., the drivers do not react with rage when we share the road with them. The truckers are really great. And I show them my appreciation by pulling off the road where possible to avoid potential problems near curves or other tight places. With the right attitude and defensive techniques, riding bike is no more dangerous than driving and a lot more pleasurable.
Having said all this, there are times to avoid the road. Some of these are: during the Baja 1000 rally week, during Semana Santa and extra caution during February when a lot of caravans of RVs come down -- yikes! Gringos feel the highway is for vehicles only and don't really know how to drive their rigs (or why would they be in a caravan??).

I can only speak as an expert on my own 'opinion', but in 40 years of driving the old trail, plus the highway since it was first laid past my place in 1972-73...I will say that the safest drivers I ever encountered were almost always 'gringo' RVers of some sort..whether big coaches or VW flower wagons.
'
The very worst drivers are still out there..Mexican nationals all drive..or would like to drive...like Parnelli Jones. Truckers are truckers everywhere..and the bad apples ruin that barrel for all. Driving too long hours, taking speed to stay awake, passing in dangerous areas, etc..the list is legion.

Gringo drivers are for the most part out to make the most of thier vacation time...and don't want to waste it in an accident event. IMO.

In what is soon approacing rount trip number 150 I have seen far too many fatalaties on The Baja Road. Dozens. Multiple deathes more than enough. I have lost 5 good friends on the Baja Road since 1973. The last was Marty Robison of Mulege, who was killed by a young national who was reckless in speeding around a corner..and we lost a fine friend.

I was eyewitness to a recent single car rollover who had swerved way too wide to bypass a bicycle south of Sta Rosalia 2 Novembers ago. I saw the oncoming SUV swerve very erractic and then lost control..spinning off the road and rolling multiple times before his daughter was tossed out the window like a rag doll...killing her of course.

I will never forget the high pitched screaming of her mother as she pulled herself from the wreckage and ran to pick up her child. The SOB driver, a drunken father, was unfortunately okay in the driver's seat. He was oblivious to what mayhem he had created. I was tempted to make him a 'fatality after the fact'...

Anyway, please do not paint all gringo with the same brush....almost all who make it this far from Waterloo, Iowa are pretty damn good drivers. :rolleyes:

Bajalera..tsk,tsk...beer on the road?...not for me.

monoloco - 12-14-2010 at 03:41 PM

It seems to me like the most unsafe drivers down here are Mexicans with new cars, they seem to think they are invincible.

Pompano - 12-14-2010 at 04:30 PM

A good test of a good driver. See how far back he tailgates at open highway speeds, most importantly curves. If his vehicle is closer than 5 car lengths to the one in front...try to stay as far away from the homicide as possible.

bajalera - 12-14-2010 at 06:54 PM

Yes, Pompano, beer on the road--but only the old one. I drove its length three times (once in a '68 Mustang Fastback), getting in all only one flat tire, incurred by taking to the trail-less boonies to avoid some guys working on the highway.

Viva Pacifico!

David K - 12-14-2010 at 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalera
Yes, Pompano, beer on the road--but only the old one. I drove its length three times (once in a '68 Mustang Fastback), getting in all only one flat tire, incurred by taking to the trail-less boonies to avoid some guys working on the highway.

Viva Pacifico!

Lee, please write us the story of the Mustang in Baja trip... It is amazing how you were able to climb the Aguajito grade or cross the Chapala dust bowl!!! The other amazing thing on the old road was the high crown between the pair of ruts and anything low would need to drive with one side of the car on the center crown and the other on the side of the rut... Had to do that with my Subaru on any of the ungraded Baja roads.

Any photos? But, the story... please!

Yackie - 12-14-2010 at 10:02 PM

Good for you health "nuts", personally think it is incredibly risky biking the baja, cuz guess what, me in one lane, vehicle in oncoming lane, biker ahead of me, now way am I swerving, guess who loses? We have actually seen bikers close to dark, (we never drive at full night) riding the Mex1, blind curves etc, the biker is ALWAYS gonna lose. Be careful out there!!

elfbrewery - 12-15-2010 at 12:36 PM

Pompano-
No, I do not paint all gringos with the same brush and maybe should not single out gringos at all. Many drivers on holiday let their minds go on holiday, too. I should have said that the organized caravans of RVers that number 20 or more make it a nuisance for many other drivers and it becomes less safe to be on the road.
My condolences for your lost friends. I can only hope it doesn't happen again.

As to -------------------------------------------------------------------
"Good for you health "nuts", personally think it is incredibly risky biking the baja, cuz guess what, me in one lane, vehicle in oncoming lane, biker ahead of me, now way am I swerving, guess who loses?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------Yeah, I know people think we have a death wish, but you do know that the roads are not interstates and you do have brakes on your car. You be careful out there. We have to be.

sharktooth - 12-16-2010 at 05:39 PM

biking the Baja Highway 1 is like kayaking through a major international shipping port

Doug/Vamonos - 12-19-2010 at 09:09 AM

I drove down to LA Bay for the races last month. I drive an F-250 which takes up a bit of space. Of course, I came across at least 6 bikers spread out over a mile or two in the worst places possible, with truck traffic coming in the opposite direction. More than once I slammed the brakes so I wouldn't be passing the bikes and the trucks at the same time, because it "just don't fit" (shades of OJ). The next day in town I was visiting the pits and I ran across a gringo local with an attractive woman. It was obvious he was showing her around. I got into a conversation and learned she was one of the kooks on the bikes. I asked her if she said "I love you" to all her loved ones at home before she left. She was confused, so I told her how many times drivers like me barely miss them on their bikes. She was completely oblivious to the whole issue. Just couldn't understand or didn't care for the conversation. And I was really being nice (turned on all my manly charm).

elfbrewery - 12-19-2010 at 11:51 AM

I'm tempted to make a retraction... maybe I should single out gringos. There are many that think bicycles shouldn't share the road at all. Cars/trucks reign supreme. But I think one statement won't make any difference.

Barry A. - 12-19-2010 at 12:29 PM

As I have said before------it is the difference in speed that is the problem. We don't let horse-drawn wagons (or pedestrians) on our interstates because they would disrupt traffic, and thereby potentially cause accidents. It is just common courtesy to me--------Bicyclists disrupt traffic, and cause motor-vehicle operators incredible stress and consternation on a narrow highway that was never intended for non-motor vehicle traffic..

Why is that so hard to understand??

Barry

elfbrewery - 12-19-2010 at 03:15 PM

Where are people supposed to go if there is only 1 road? In the US, where there are no other roads, bicycles are allowed on the interstate highways. Mexico does not consider Hwy. 1 a high speed highway and post that, because there are free range animals, narrow lanes, little shoulder, nasty curves. So, it is the responsibility of all drivers to drive defensively (and should do so always); anyone who shares the highway needs to exercise due caution. Seeing the world at 10mph or 5mph is a lovely experience instead of zooming by.

Barry A. - 12-19-2010 at 03:52 PM

It's a problem, I will admit.

But I do think that folks on bicycles should try and be accomodating as much as feasible, and not ride in a deliberate manner knowing they are interfering with motor traffic. Those are the one's that send me thru the roof!!! like riding 2 or 3 abreast effectively blocking the entire lane. It happens, believe me, but rarely thank Gawd.

Veh. drivers should be equally sensitive, but it is not easy and sure slows you down, which is irritating to say the least.

I feel the problem is only going to get worse, unfortunately.

My Uncle, who taught me to drive, always said, "It is easier for a pedestrian to move over or stop than a 2000 lb vehicle----always remember that and act accordingly when you are walking". That statement really hit home and always made me sensitive to drivers, and to give cars and trucks (and bikes) the right-of-way not-with-standing what the "law" is, for obvious reasons. "Car vs man or bike, bike and man loses every time". :light:

Barry

elfbrewery - 12-19-2010 at 03:58 PM

It sounds like we are circling back in on the original post. I'm happy to leave it at that.

Phil S - 12-19-2010 at 04:15 PM

Our recent trip to Cabo & back during Nov. & lst part of Dec caused us much concern & frustration. We passed many bikes going south & north (the bikes were all going south). some were mexican riders outfitted in their 'garb' The others were 'visitors' via their camping stuff all over their bikes. No close calls. We travel with a very complete first aid kit. In the 24 years we've been traveling in Baja, never had to use it. (time I guess to replace some of the items with new) Wife commented on one group of four bikers, where she saw the look on the female rider who was bringing up the rear. She said it was a combination of "peeed off" and shear terror on her face. If it's a girl friend, I bet that will be over before they return 'home'. If it's a wife, I bet there will be some nice trip to either Florida or Hawaii on their next vacation, or divorce.
I just can't figure out anyone wanting to subject a love one to the huge exposure of accident or death by riding bikes on Hwy 1??????? different strokes for different folks certainly applies here. BUT, how nice it is to not be swerving all over the road missing pot holes, from when we were first driving back in the late 80's & 90's. And the numerous times I can remember about to pass a freight truck, and I'm with my signal on, and flashing my headlights to get his attention, and about to accelerate, when he suddenly would swerve into the left lane, missing a pot hole deep enough to hide a Volkswagon or a washout in the side of the right lane.!!!!!! I think many of the old timers can remember "those days"!!!!! At the rate the gov't is widening the roads, it just might be widened all the way down the thousand miles by the end of 2019 (well, I can dream can't I?)

Bajatripper - 12-19-2010 at 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
I will say that the safest drivers I ever encountered were almost always 'gringo' RVers of some sort..whether big coaches or VW flower wagons.
'
The very worst drivers are still out there..Mexican nationals all drive..or would like to drive...like Parnelli Jones. Truckers are truckers everywhere..and the bad apples ruin that barrel for all. Driving too long hours, taking speed to stay awake, passing in dangerous areas, etc..the list is legion.

Gringo drivers are for the most part out to make the most of thier vacation time...and don't want to waste it in an accident event. IMO.

In what is soon approacing rount trip number 150 I have seen far too many fatalaties on The Baja Road. Dozens. Multiple deathes more than enough. I have lost 5 good friends on the Baja Road since 1973. The last was Marty Robison of Mulege, who was killed by a young national who was reckless in speeding around a corner..and we lost a fine friend.

Anyway, please do not paint all gringo with the same brush....almost all who make it this far from Waterloo, Iowa are pretty damn good drivers. :rolleyes:

Bajalera

Bajalera..tsk,tsk...beer on the road?...not for me.

Pompano
As I stated on the last "I hate bicycles on MY Baja Road"
thread a few weeks back, I have enjoyed the Baja road from both the seat of a vehicle as well as the seat of a bicycle. I can state unequivocally that on the Transpeninsular Highway, the average gringo driver is much much less concerned about the safety of a bicycle rider than is the average Mexican driver. Mexican truckers were among the most curteous drivers I encountered on my bike trip.

I also agree with your assessment that gringo drivers are concerned about their vacation time, but disagree with the effect this has on many of them. Far from being concerned about accident avoidance, too many of us drive the Transpeninsular as if we thought we were qualified to race in the Le Man's. As I mentioned in the previous thread on this subject, there isn't a section of the Baja Highway (toll roads excluded) on which it is legal to drive faster than 80KMP, or around 50MPH. At that speed, bicycles would be much easier to deal with.

Just one more point, which I made last time, too. As dangerous of an undertaking as riding a bike down Baja appears to be to most of us, I think the dangers are greatly exaggerated. Otherwise, where are all of the reports of bicycle accidents and dead riders? Based on the empirical evidence available, it seems hard not to conclude that riding a bicycle down the peninsula must be one of the safest means of travel in these parts.

About Bajalera's comment, she was obviously referring to driving on the really old Baja Road, as in the pre-pavement days. The reference to the average speed being driven was a dead giveaway.

[Edited on 12-20-2010 by Bajatripper]

elfbrewery - 12-20-2010 at 02:35 PM

Hallelujah.

DENNIS - 12-20-2010 at 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajatripper
As I mentioned in the previous thread on this subject, there isn't a section of the Baja Highway (toll roads excluded) on which it is legal to drive faster than 80KMP, or around 50MPH.

Didn't someone mention somewhere that parts of the Tecate Road, HWY-3, are posted at 110 KPH?

David K - 12-20-2010 at 03:32 PM

The 'Baja Highway' is Mex. #1... perhaps that is it?

The new wider, 2 lane road north of San Felipe is also 110 kph (Mex. #5)

burnrope - 12-20-2010 at 05:56 PM

Coyotes and vultures need to eat too.

[Edited on 12-21-2010 by burnrope]

Bajatripper - 12-22-2010 at 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
The 'Baja Highway' is Mex. #1... perhaps that is it?

The new wider, 2 lane road north of San Felipe is also 110 kph (Mex. #5)

My bad (on the 80KPH maximum speed limit I mentioned above). I was quoting a Federal official with whom I spoke when some bicycle riders really got under my skin just north of Santa Rosalia a couple of years ago. Things have obviously changed considerably since then up north.

Bajatripper - 12-23-2010 at 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sharktooth
biking the Baja Highway 1 is like kayaking through a major international shipping port

Man, you should feel the adrenaline rush from a kayak in Hong Kong Harbor--at night, during a monsoon rain! What a ride!

Bajatripper - 12-23-2010 at 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yackie
Good for you health "nuts", personally think it is incredibly risky biking the baja, cuz guess what, me in one lane, vehicle in oncoming lane, biker ahead of me, now way am I swerving, guess who loses?

That seems to be what we think we would do in such a situation, yet the evidence--or lack of--seems to indicate quite the opposite is the case, and drivers do indeed find ways to avoid those damned crazy fools on bikes. Otherwise, where are all of the reports of dead bikers?

Of course, another possibility is that bikers are getting killed along the highway all of the time, but the Mexican government--wanting to keep the flow of fools heading south--buries them in the desert to cover up the fact. :lol:

Bajatripper - 12-23-2010 at 12:49 PM

Just one last entry on this thread for me and I'm done. One thing that doesn't get mentioned by the folks that feel they shouldn't have to share the road with bicyclists is that bike riders have the same right on the road as a motor vehicle. This isn't my opinion, but rather, the official word from a federal I talked to in Santa Rosalia when I stopped to report that there was a caravan of bikers riding TWO ABREAST along the road just north of town (God, how I wanted to mow the entire group of arrogant SOBs down myself!).

Given that reality, if you do decide not to hit the brakes to avoid that bicyclist while you are probably speeding down the road, you had better make it a hit-and-run, since you will likely go to jail for a while, which would probably put a crimp in your vacation plans.

DENNIS - 12-23-2010 at 01:28 PM

Baja tantalizes the senses in many ways. The beauty of pristine beaches....the clear skies at night....the friendly people...excellent fishing....the unspoiled beauty of the land...and, of course, the sound of the road and other things passing underneith your Baja rig...THUMP THUMP. :lol:

Jes kiddin' , bicycleistas.

puppy - 1-4-2011 at 12:39 PM

We had a nasty trip coming back up the Baja road the end of last April. We were out in no-man's land, north of Catavina. Around 9:30 a.m. we were passing a Tecate semi truck, with no one else around. As our truck was getting past the driver I (being the passenger) noticed that the semi was getting closer to us. Before I could yell, bam! the semi hit our travel trailer and knocked it off the road. My husband stepped on the diesel fuel as hard as he could, and the trailer was fishtailing. We were totally out of control. Luckily, we got the rig straightened out and was able to pull over. We expected the whole side of the trailer to be gone, but it wasn't. The impact was so great that it knocked the trailer off the frame.
TIhe impact also crunched the two back trailer tires together and flattened one tire. We were so lucky to be alive. No cell phone contact and an ambulance 5 hours away if we needed one.
We believe it was the semi driver's fault. He had driving all night from Loreto and was heading back to Tecate. His hood and tire got ruined.
We knew the trailer was totaled but luckily we were able to limp back across the border to buy straps and tie down the trailer to the frame.
We had Vagabundo insurance, but what a joke.
We have been going up and down the Baja for over 25 years and never had an experience like this one.

David K - 1-4-2011 at 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by puppy

This should really be in its own thread! Thank you very much for posting.

Did you honk your horn to wake-up the driver of the Tecate truck so you know it wasn't intentional?

Why was Vagabundos Insurance a 'joke'...? Please provide the details so others won't get burned.

How long were you stuck and who made the repairs to your trailer and where?

Thank you!

puppy - 1-5-2011 at 01:19 PM

My husband was busy keeping his eye on the road to pass, he did not see the semi getting closer.
Vagabundo outsources the insurance to a Mexican Company. We had the trailer insured for 8 grand but the Mex. adjustor told us if we dropped our trailer right there in Ensenada Costco parking lot, he would give us a check for $1,500. his book value. Because we had cats, and a lot of gear in the trailer, we live on the Baja 4 months, we figured we better limp it across the border. Gosh, the fridge. and stove is worth more $ than what we were offered.
We were lucky that not too far up the road there was a tire repair shop. He didn't have many tools, but with his help, and all the many tools that we had along with a handy-man jack, we were able to seperate the tires a little and prayed that we could at least cross the border.
A handy-man jack really comes in handy. That's how we were able to jack the trailer back over to the frame.