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Talk Me Down

vernezze - 1-10-2011 at 02:08 PM

So I have been planning on driving down the Baja in about ten days. But the more I read here, the more freaked out I get. Between ATM machines stealing your pin, military checkpoints, car breakdowns in the middle of nowhere, shakedowns by local police, getting shortchanged by merchants, crazy drivers,etc. I am really thinking twice about this trip. I don't think I scare easily. Last year I got caught in the middle of a Maoist demonstration in Nepal and was trapped in a hotel room in Bangkok by fighting between the government and Red Shirts. And I would in a heartbeat go back to either of those places rather than drive down the Baja. Now, you are under no obligation to do this, that is, talk me down from this paranoia and tell me its not as bad as I imagine. But I could really use some anxiety easing sentiments, because I have to say that as a seasoned world traveller driving down the Baja scares the chit out of me. Which is probably why I will do it, for the same reason I went Bungee jumping in New Zealand. But I am not looking forward to this.

sanquintinsince73 - 1-10-2011 at 02:10 PM

Jeeeezzzz

Bajahowodd - 1-10-2011 at 02:21 PM

Maybe you ought to at least check out the Baja Trip Reports section and see just how not scary things are down there. Methinks that the daily posts tend to skew toward the more sensational and negative, only because people consider this to be a good place to vent.

Fact is, the overwhelming number of Baja travelers have no untoward events. And in many of the small number of problem situations, the story usually ends up being a positive reflection of the warmth, heart and helpfulness of the Mexican people.

I've been making multiple trips down there for decades. One time had a traffic cop accuse me of going the wrong way on a one way street (no arrows posted). Cost me a 20 peso mordita. And, in the process, and a lot of fun with the cop. One time had my credit card cloned at a restaurant in Ensenada. That's it, over decades, Still keep going and loving it.

DENNIS - 1-10-2011 at 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vernezze
I don't think I scare easily. Last year I got caught in the middle of a Maoist demonstration in Nepal and was trapped in a hotel room in Bangkok by fighting between the government and Red Shirts.

You're Baja-Ready. Nothing here can top what you've already been through.
Look around at some of the recent threads here. There's little old ladies that are packing up to hit the road right now....solo.
If you have any trouble on the road, maybe one of them will come along to give you a hand. :lol:

BajaGeoff - 1-10-2011 at 02:41 PM

Given your experiences in other countries I would think you would be looking FORWARD to a trip to Baja!

I drove about 4,000 miles all over Baja throughout 2010 and had nothing but positive experiences. I have also been traveling frequently to Baja since 1989 and have only had one shakedown in the last 22 years.

Use the same common sense as you would traveling in any other country and you will be fine. And if you happen to break down in a remote area, the locals are probably going to be friendly, help you out and force you to drink a Tecate with them, so be prepared for that.

motoged - 1-10-2011 at 02:43 PM

V,

Let's begin with what to call it: It is "Baja", not "THE Baja";

Then review how you seem to have selective recall as most posts on this forum speak well of their experiences in Baja....what has led you to recall/focus on the "negative" comments ?

After that, figure out what you want from a trip to Baja and plan for that...and use your traveling smarts to make it happen.

How have you managed your fear when traveling in other countries? Use that method to combat what you have conjured up regarding Baja....

And look for good fish tacos, some places off the beaten path, and the experiences that will give you some travel-memories not tarnished by fear.

Have a good trip...

windgrrl - 1-10-2011 at 02:47 PM

Drove to the East Cape for the first time last month. Our biggest travel issue was the bad weather in Canada and the US, then having to get an RV tire replaced after arrival.

It's an amazing drive...just prepare well for the trip and enjoy the adventure. :dudette:

DianaT - 1-10-2011 at 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vernezze
So I have been planning on driving down the Baja in about ten days. But the more I read here, the more freaked out I get. Between ATM machines stealing your pin, military checkpoints, car breakdowns in the middle of nowhere, shakedowns by local police, getting shortchanged by merchants, crazy drivers,etc. I am really thinking twice about this trip.

Sometimes ATM machines steal cards in the US---it happens
Military Checkpoints---gives you a chance to stretch your legs--no problem
Breakdown? You will have more help than you probably will need---all from very friendly locals

ENOUGH now. The only cure for pre-travel anxiety attacks is the START PACKING---NOW! :biggrin:

[Edited on 1-10-2011 by DianaT]

bajalera - 1-10-2011 at 02:55 PM

Check out Hidden Heart of Baja at a library and stay home.

BajaGringo - 1-10-2011 at 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalera
Check out Hidden Heart of Baja at a library and stay home.

DanO - 1-10-2011 at 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalera
Check out Hidden Heart of Baja at a library and stay home.

Good point, that would be one less car to be stuck behind in Maneadero traffic. But I have to agree with Dennis, if you've been through rioting in Nepal, you're pretty much good to go anywhere else. Anyway, having nothing better to do, let's work our way down the list, shall we?

ATM machines stealing your PIN: This has never happened to me. (I was, however, the victim of credit card fraud in the U.S. a few years ago. Wachovia was very good about it when I was able to prove that I was not in Buenos Aires buying jewelry and dining out during the time in question.)

Military checkpoints: Having some harmless and well-intentioned guy poke around in your trunk with a screwdriver for a minute or two is too much to deal with? Really? Been to an airport in the U.S. lately? The poking there ain't in your trunk.

Car breakdowns in the middle of nowhere: Uh, two words: Preventative maintenance. You're welcome.

Shakedowns by local police: The closest I've come to this is when my wife ran a stop sign in front of a police station in Ensenada and they waved her over to pay the fine while they watched the World Cup on TV. Damn soccer fanatics.

Getting shortchanged by merchants: The last time this happened to me, it was in Koreatown in L.A.

Crazy drivers: As compared to where? Rome? Or Nepal perhaps?

bajadock - 1-10-2011 at 03:45 PM

"...Baja scares the poop out of me..."

Sounds like motivation(or cry for help?) for some type of relaxation. ?

DanO - 1-10-2011 at 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajadock
"...Baja scares the poop out of me..."

Sounds like motivation(or cry for help?) for some type of relaxation. ?

Or some form of diarrhea medicine.

rhintransit - 1-10-2011 at 04:28 PM

if you're terrified, stay home. nothing like fear and trembling and negative expectations to spoil a trip. I can't believe anyone who has gone through what you say you have would even think twice about traveling to Baja.
I'm a single woman and have been traveling/driving/living in Mexico for about 15 years. I've driven the mainland, I've driven Baja. I've totaled one vehicle on Hwy 1 and walked away. I'm sure I've been shortchanged somewhere, but who hasn't been in almost any country in the world. have never had a problem with the ATM machines, except maybe one time when it short changed me but the bank guys checked it and gave me the rest of the money. the military checkpoints are a hoot; the guys mostly smile and flirt. be sure your car is in good shape, be sure you can change a tire, keep the tank full and the water and oil checked. if you break down, expect to encounter the kindness of many strangers. don't be stupid, watch your back and your possessions just like anywhere else you'd go.
ps do not drive through TJ for your first visit. I recommend Tecate for a gentler introduction, even with the detours.

Loretana - 1-10-2011 at 04:35 PM

Vernezze,

Snap out of it!! You've already admitted you're an adrenalin junkie.

Just grit your teeth and go. You won't regret it!!

redhilltown - 1-10-2011 at 04:43 PM

A ton of the problems and hassles people traveling to Baja happen at the border...either coming or going. LEARN your route in and where to get your tourist card and where to pay for it. David K and others have good posts on here with maps and info. Know when to cross and when not to cross the border...don't come back late on a Sunday afternoon or morning rush hour at TJ. Find out the few regulations on what veggies and fruits you can't bring back...a two hour wait and then hassled in secondary will not ruin a great trip, but why not avoid it!?

Checkpoints are easy if you just have your wallet and valuables on you when you get out...you'll find very very few problems anywhere on this board with the army (when you consider the tens of thousands of military checkpoints this board MUST have gone through in the last 10 years or more.) The cops yes...they can be a pain. But usually in the bigger cities near border once again. Know the exchange rate and you you'll always have a rough idea if anyone is pulling a fast one on your money wise.

Have a blast and send in a report!

Calm down and be smart

Cielomar - 1-10-2011 at 04:46 PM

I don;t think it is unnecessarily dangerous driving the Baja at all. I've done it many times and have never had much of a problem. Shake downs are rare and if the police ask you for money you can usually politely refuse or bargain them down. The military check points should be viewed as a positive thing. They are polite and unless you fit a drug or gun runner profile they will wave you on without much delay. Make sure your rig is in good shape before venturing onward. If you stick on the Trans-Peninsular and have a problem you won't be stuck for long. You may have sticker shock when it comes to paying for the tow and repair, however.
Other than that, don't be stupid and put yourself in a position to be taken advantage of. Get out and watch the pump when you fill up, park in a safe spot and lock your car. Stay at a decent hotel along the way (I like the Desert Inn in Catavina) and observe the Golden Rule. Mostly, just have fun and use your head. Enjoy

Travel advice please!!

drarroyo - 1-10-2011 at 04:54 PM

I wanted to travel to The America (sheeez)
but heard there's whack jobs that can easily purchase firearms (unfreakingbelievable) that will shoot at you while you're grabbing milk from the local Safeway !!!!????
for reals?????
help!! wwwhhaaaaaaa

nbacc - 1-10-2011 at 05:34 PM

funny, what I read here encourages me to keep going and use common sense just like you would in our big cities. Plus you get the beauty bonus! Of course, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

dtbushpilot - 1-10-2011 at 05:49 PM

Stay home vern, lay on the couch and watch TV. Not very exciting but SAFE.......dt

chippy - 1-10-2011 at 05:53 PM

This has to be the troll of the week.

BajaBlanca - 1-10-2011 at 06:02 PM

wow..... I can't wait to hear your trip report after your trip !!

Baja or The Baja (direct translation of "La Baja" en espanol) is one of wildest most incredible places on Earth. Visit Shari in Asuncion who has been here about 20 years, I think (originally from Canada) or us, we have been here only 4 years but call this HOME.

I don't think you will regret it - I think you have plenty of experience and street smarts to get around.

DENNIS - 1-10-2011 at 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chippy
This has to be the troll of the week.

Hard to say. He's been on this topic for a few days now.

http://tinyurl.com/4kta3p5

BajaBlanca - 1-10-2011 at 06:48 PM

I think VernezzE is a SHE ?????

elskel - 1-10-2011 at 06:54 PM

go

goldhuntress - 1-10-2011 at 07:14 PM

Sure, you could have a lousy trip but you'll probably have a great adventure, maybe even a life changing experience. So stay positive, be open minded and go for it! I don't have the experience in Baja that a lot of Nomads have but I've been down there about 25 times and NEVER had a bad time. I did have an car accident in Ensenada once but you just deal with whatever comes your way and move on. That trip was really fun, camping and hiking in Sierra de San Pedro Mártir National Park

Well??

lookingandbuying - 1-10-2011 at 08:04 PM

Gotta say guys...I go to Baja (above Ensenada) at every chance I get. Even renting a house down there for the month of February. I LOVE MEXICO!! But, even with my love of the country and the people it is starting to wear me down. CONSTANT negative news and stories. I have never had one problem in over 20 years. I really want to take the drive down to Cabo with the wife...sooner than later. Have ALWAYS found people helpful in all parts of Mexico. Am in a wheelchair and just starting to feel a little vunerable about all the things I read/hear. Even now all my friends that are Mexican or from Mex are shaking their heads saying be careful. I think I am really much more concerned about anything EVER happening to my wife while we are down there. Then I say, Sh*t Happens even here in the good ole USA.

vernezze - 1-10-2011 at 08:53 PM

Well, I am living in Tucson right now, and am thinking that a drive down the Baja (sorry, Baja) can't be any more dangerous than going to The Safeway (sorry, Safeway). I really appreciate the encouragement, the (mostly) positive, supportive comments and the good suggestions. I realized the fears were irrational and just needed to be told they were by folks with some authority to do so. So thanks. Will keep you posted.

Marc - 1-10-2011 at 10:22 PM

Read "God's Middle Finger" by Richard Grant and then head for the central Sierra Madre in mainland Mexico. (Go east at Hermosillo)

Packoderm - 1-10-2011 at 11:27 PM

I wouldn't go. It is frightening.
I never have been able to get used to all the kilometer markers topped with disembodied heads because I never could figure out the metric system.

David K - 1-10-2011 at 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalera
Check out Hidden Heart of Baja at a library and stay home.

While down in Baja exploring in the 1960's, Erle Stanley Gardner was also working on his Perry Mason TV episode stories.

oldlady - 1-11-2011 at 06:04 AM

I drove..one way...couldn't deal with the topes (which is where the rest of the bodies are buried) so just stayed here.

Alan - 1-11-2011 at 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DanO

Been to an airport in the U.S. lately? The poking there ain't in your trunk.

It is if they call you into the back room!

volcano - 1-11-2011 at 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oldlady
I drove..one way...couldn't deal with the topes (which is where the rest of the bodies are buried) so just stayed here.

another aging female..have my own cabin way down practically in the middle of nowhere.just stay away from the known problem areas, and be wise, as you would in the U.S. , or Nepal. Bad raps can be a little unnerving.

gnukid - 1-11-2011 at 08:17 AM

You should be very very careful going to Baja, many gringos tend to overeat too many tacos the first day, it's also embarrassing hopping around with hand signals and sort of grunting to communicate, but if you do go look for a timeshare opportunity-they are an amazing value and opportunity to buy in without actually owning anything. I also have a bridge to the mainland for sale.

[Edited on 1-11-2011 by gnukid]

wilderone - 1-11-2011 at 09:01 AM

Go. You will regret it if you don't. Just be prepared. Accident? Get Insurance. ATM problem? Don't use them - go to a bank or bring enough cash. Checkpoint? Do you have drugs or guns? If not, no problem. Don't be stupid - don't leave your wallet, camera, expensive binoculars sitting on the front seat or even in your glove box. Stuck in the sand? Flat tire? figure out how you will take care of these problems. In short, envision the worst case scenario, figure out a solution, then JUST DO IT. I am an old lady - I drive myself to Baja and elsewhere in Mexico by myself.

sanquintinsince73 - 1-11-2011 at 09:23 AM

Verneeze, just go. Like someone else posted here probably the biggest problem that you will encounter are the merchants trying to squeeze an extra peso out of you when you make a purchase. Know the exchange rate for the day and do the calculations in your head when making a purchase. When fueling get out of your vehicle and make sure that the meter on the pump is on zero's. Just go and enjoy Baja and it's people, I guarantee that you'll go back again and again.

Oh yeah, as you are driving past the Bufadora turn-off past Ensenada, beware of an 'ol war vet in bermudas and flip-flops beckoning you with a half empty can of Tecate. That's just Dennis trying to lure you into his lair at Punta Banda. :lol:

so many suggestions......

bajaguy - 1-11-2011 at 09:29 AM

Somebody should make a list.......then we can just post the list when anybody has questions :lol:

DENNIS - 1-11-2011 at 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Oh yeah, as you are driving past the Bufadora turn-off past Ensenada, beware of an 'ol war vet in bermudas and flip-flops beckoning you with a half empty can of Tecate. That's just Dennis trying to lure you into his lair at Punta Banda. :lol:

That's half full...thank you. :biggrin:

DENNIS - 1-11-2011 at 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
Somebody should make a list.......then we can just post the list when anybody has questions :lol:

We haven't even talked about "things to take" yet.
Here ya go, thanks to Bajajudy.

Don't forget to pack the following items:
--------------

aluminum foil
antibiotic cream
antiseptic wipes
aspirin, Aleve
awnings/shades
baby powder
baby wipes
backpack
bandages
bathing soap
battery charger
bed sheets
bee sting kit
beer/wine
bikes/helmets
binoculars
bird guide
blankets
board/card games
boogie boards
book
broom
broth for gravy
brown sugar
bucket
bug spray
bug spray
bungee cords
burn ointment
butane lighter
calculator
camera/Video
camp lantern(s)
camp shoes
camp stove
camp stove table
can opener
can/bottle coolers
can/bottle openers
candles
canned foods
canteen
cards, games
cb radio
CD Player
CDs
cell phone
cell phone charger
chairs
charcoal
charcoal chimney
citronella candles
clam bucket
cleaning Items
clothes pins
coffee pot
coffee/tea
coins for emergency phone calls
collapsible coffee cup
collapsible garbage can
comb/brush
comforter
compass
compass
cooking oil
cooking utensils
cooler
cork screw
corn on the cob holders
cots
cotton swabs
creamer
crimp tool
cutting board
dehydrated spices
deodorant
detergent
dictionary (Eng-Sp)
dish pan
dish rags
dishwashing pan
dishwashing soap
dog documents
dog leash
drinking water
dry cell batteries
dry foods
duct tape
dust pan
dust pan
dutch oven
Egg beater
elastic wrap
electric Multi-meter
engine oil
environmental soap
extra buttons
extra spare and Jack
eye wash
fillet knife
fire grill
fire starter
first aid kit
fishing gear
fishing knife
fishing line
fishing reels
fishing rods
Fix-a-Flat
flashlight
flour
folding table
food
food bags
fresh vegetables
frisbee
fuel filter (extra)
gaff
gas Cans
Gorilla tape
GPS
GPS Receiver
hack saw
hair brush
hammer
hammock
hand crank blender
hand wipes
hand-held mirror
hat
hat/cap
headband led lamp
heavy jacket
herbs and spices
hooks
hot dog sticks
hydrogen peroxide
ice
ice chest
insect collection receptacle
insulated wire
JB weld
jeans/pants
Jiffy Pop popcorn
jumper cables
kite string
kites
knife
knife sharpener
lantern
Lantern fuel
lantern mantles
laptop computer
laser pointer
latex gloves
laundry bag
lawn rake
led flashlight/headband
light jacket
lip balm
liquor
long pants
long sleeve shirts
lures
magnifying glass
mantels
maps
masking tape
matches
matches/lighter
measuring cups
measuring cups
medical tape
medications
memory cards
mess kit
moisturizing lotion
mosquito net
musical instruments
nail clippers
nails/screws
napkins
net
Nintendo DS
Nintendo DS charger
octane booster
outdoor table(s)
pain killers
paper plates
paper plates/bowls
paper towels
paper towels
passports
pen and paper
personal medication
pet dishes
pet food
pet leash
pillow cases
pillows
plant guide
plastic bags
plastic cups
plastic cups
plastic silverware
plastic trash bags
pliers
pot holders
pot scrubber
potato peeler
pots and pans
propane
propane canister refill adapter
propane fridge
propane hoses
prophylactics
pry bar
radiator coolant
radio
rain poncho
razor
reading material
recreational medication
reference material
road flares
rope/twine
rubber bands (to tie hair)
safety pins
salt and pepper
sandals/flip-flops
saw
scissors
screen room
SCUBA gear
sempura batter
sewing kit
shoes/boots
short sleeve shirts
shorts
shovel
shower bag
silverware
sinus medications
sleeping bag
sleeping bags
sleeping pad
small baseball bat
smoker
snake bite kit
snorkeling gear
sporting goods (football etc.)
soap
socks
sodas
solar panel
solder
soldering iron
solder-less terminals
soy sauce
spare fuel pump
spare fuses
splinting materials
stakes
star Maps
starter fluid
sterile gauze
stun gun
sun block
sunburn lotion
sunglasses
sweater
swim suit
swimming trunks
table cloth
tarp
telescope
tent/tent stakes
thermometer, body
thermometer, Ext.
throw rug pillow
tie downs/straps
tire air pump
toilet paper
tongs
tongs and spatula
tool set (complete)
tools
tooth brush
tooth paste
toothbrush
toothpicks
towel(s)
Towels
trash bags
travel alarm clock
t-shirts
tweezers
umbrella
underwear
vitamins
wash rag(s)
washrags
water
water filters
water floats
water purifier/tablets
water Sox
WD40
weights for fishing
wet wipes
wetsuits
whisk broom
whistle
window cleaner
work gloves
wristwatch
writing tablet
yeast
zip lock bags
zip ties

.

[Edited on 1-11-2011 by DENNIS]

Do's and Don'ts list

bajaguy - 1-11-2011 at 09:43 AM

That's a great trip list, but I'm talking about a do's and don'ts list........all of the helpufiul hints starting with:

Buying Mexican car insurance
Get FMM
Where to get pesos
Don't drink the water......blah, blah, blah

sanquintinsince73 - 1-11-2011 at 09:49 AM

Buying Mexican car insurance
Get FMM
Where to get pesos
Don't drink the water......blah, blah, blah

...unless it's in a little red can.

the odd things that dennis carries in his car

mtgoat666 - 1-11-2011 at 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

We haven't even talked about "things to take" yet.
Here ya go:
--------------

broth for gravy
insect collection receptacle
laser pointer
memory cards
Nintendo DS
recreational medication

denny old boy:
why do you recommend these particular items on your list?

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
recreational medication

huh? is this for your flacid member?

[Edited on 1-11-2011 by mtgoat666]

DENNIS - 1-11-2011 at 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
That's a great trip list, but I'm talking about a do's and don'ts list........

OK....I fixed it. :lol:

Examples of safe bottled water in Mexico

David K - 1-11-2011 at 10:38 AM

At some Baja resorts, they train little dogs to bring you bottles poolside! (Playa Frambes, near Mulege)

One of the bottled water stores:

[Edited on 1-11-2011 by David K]

Rosario-06 079r.JPG - 48kB

DENNIS - 1-11-2011 at 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

bleat bleat bleat

Isn't this the time of day you normally take your bath in the neighbor's septic tank?
What are you doing here?

mtgoat666 - 1-11-2011 at 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

bleat bleat bleat

Isn't this the time of day you normally take your bath in the neighbor's septic tank?
What are you doing here?

just passing time while my hair dries

DENNIS - 1-11-2011 at 10:51 AM

Hair??? Maybe you could dive back in and grab a scoop of last night's chocolate mousse. It'll make you look like a movie star.

chrisx - 1-11-2011 at 11:39 AM

Baja California is more safe than California. The only real problem is gringos who road rage, or never learned to drive safely. Mexicans all hit the brakes when they see something on the road.
note to bad driving gringo, next time stop and give them some water, maybe they will put you in their video,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh583LHXLxc
after reading above posts all would agree these people should not be on the road
Give your self a purpose in life and help them, or at least hide their car keys

HEY GRINGO HIT THE BRAKES

Bajahowodd - 1-11-2011 at 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chrisx
Baja California is more safe than California. The only real problem is gringos who road rage, or never learned to drive safely. Mexicans all hit the brakes when they see something on the road.
note to bad driving gringo, next time stop and give them some water, maybe they will put you in their video,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh583LHXLxc
after reading above posts all would agree these people should not be on the road
Give your self a purpose in life and help them, or at least hide their car keys

HEY GRINGO HIT THE BRAKES

You have actually reminded me of a very important driving tip that comes into play along the hundreds of miles of two lane. When approaching a vehicle from behind, if they turn on their left blinker, they are signalling to you that it is safe to pass......most of the time! :lol:

Oso - 1-11-2011 at 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
Somebody should make a list.......then we can just post the list when anybody has questions :lol:

You forgot the deuce and a half halftrack to carry all that stuff.

Bajahowodd - 1-11-2011 at 03:35 PM

What? It won't fit in the trunk of my sedan?

vernezze - 1-11-2011 at 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Buying Mexican car insurance
Get FMM
Where to get pesos
Don't drink the water......blah, blah, blah

...unless it's in a little red can.

A list like that would be great. FMM. When you google it, it comes up Federation of Malaysian Manufacturers. But I am taking it that is not what it is. But any dos/donts would be helpful

David K - 1-11-2011 at 10:54 PM

It is a 'Tourist Card' (like a visa, but on its own paper not stamped in you passport)... until a few moths ago was called an FM-T. Now FMM.

wilderone - 1-12-2011 at 09:13 AM

"FMM. When you google it, it comes up Federation of Malaysian Manufacturers"
thanks for the laugh this morning, verne

BajaBlanca - 1-12-2011 at 10:59 AM

that IS a funny definition for FMM !!

so vernezze, are you feeling better about coming down to Baja yet ????