BajaNomad - getting rid of your gardener

getting rid of your gardener

Leo - 1-20-2011 at 05:01 PM

Has anyone experience with firing a part-time gardener that does not work out?
What is the best mode of action, does it need the offical FINIQUITO forma and how to calculate it?

BajaBlanca - 1-20-2011 at 07:29 PM

Shari wd probably be the best person to ask ... she has tons of experience.

mcfez - 1-20-2011 at 08:01 PM

Well......I being a Landscaper....one says "YOUR FIRED"!

Just make sure your time card hours jingle with his time card hours.....and pay the few extra hours that he/she may claim to have. Cheaper that way to rid them than dealing with a worker's panel.

DENNIS - 1-20-2011 at 09:59 PM

Tell him to get effing lost. Assuming you've paid him, you owe him nothing.

David K - 1-20-2011 at 11:37 PM

Start acting crazy... make him want to quit!

DavidE - 1-21-2011 at 01:12 AM

I don't know about joking around; just tell him that you have had a "financial setback (him)" and not go into the details. Tell him he was wonderful and you are very upset about having to let him go, but "What can I do?" Intelligent people don't make unnecessary enemies. My old axiom is: one enemy offsets a hundred friends.

Russ - 1-21-2011 at 05:52 AM

I am a firm believer of honesty. Explain what it is you are not satisfied with and that you already have someone that will do the job. Ask him what is owed and settle up with him. I know that isn't the easiest but doesn't cause problems later with other workers in the area you may want to use.

mcfez - 1-21-2011 at 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Russ
I am a firm believer of honesty. Explain what it is you are not satisfied with and that you already have someone that will do the job. Ask him what is owed and settle up with him. I know that isn't the easiest but doesn't cause problems later with other workers in the area you may want to use.

Yes.

DENNIS - 1-21-2011 at 07:32 AM

Raise Rattlesnakes in the Rose bushes.
Put hidden speakers in the Petunias that scream with pain when he clips them.
Have your trees talk to him.
Tighten the wheels on your lawnmower.
Plant Poisen Ivy all around your house.

bajaguy - 1-21-2011 at 07:41 AM

Hide an INS Agent in your hedge

DENNIS - 1-21-2011 at 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
Hide an INS Agent in your hedge

I thought this was a Baja dilema. :light:

bajaguy - 1-21-2011 at 07:56 AM

Equal opportunity advice :lol:

Pescador - 1-21-2011 at 09:06 AM

If you have had him any time at all, and you fire him, you may find yourself dealing with the social security system so by all means go through the Finiquito form and keep copies. You still may end up paying a month or two and some of the Aguinaldo (Christmas Bonus), but it should end up being an actually terminated employment. A lot will depend on how well informed this person is of the system (which always greatly favors the worker) and what they think they can get out of it.
I had a friend here in the small village where I live who had a gardner who watered (when she would come to work, which was infrequent) and when she could not take it any longer, she fired the woman, who actually got an allowance of two months salary and a full aguinaldo. Luckily the woman was moving out of town and just left so it became a moot point.
In the governments eyes, if the person comes on a regular basis for a certain period of time then that employee has certain rights and you need to be aware of those rights.

vandenberg - 1-21-2011 at 09:19 AM

How about housekeeping help, 5 hours a week for several years, whom, after she quit, took us to court/mediator, and stuck us for $300.00. Never mind the many times she didn't show or all the goodies we provided and the christmas/easter bonuses. ( baby clothes, bikes, beds, shoes and clothing ).
Beat the other cases we know about, where after fighting it in court, ended up thousands in the hole.
Be aware !!

DENNIS - 1-21-2011 at 09:27 AM

I don't believe that intermittant workers are entitled to the benefits of full-time employees. Basically, you hire them for the day or for the job. Same with your house keeper. If that were not the case, you would have to pay benefits to every person who did anything for you, such as fix your flat tire or wash your car.
The labor authorities will side with the employee in some cases to squeeze an employer only because they know they can get away with it. Especially a foreigner who is basically defenseless
I'm not suggesting the issue should escalate to the point of lawyers etc, but right or wrong, the government has nothing to lose. It's just a residual of the days of rampant power abuse.

Russ - 1-21-2011 at 10:17 AM

I had a gardener that wanted a raise and I asked him it he thought he deserved more that the house cleaner that actually worked. Of course he was insulted and quit when I refused to pay him what he wanted.

DianaT - 1-21-2011 at 10:27 AM

Pesador's and Vandenberg's stories have stuck with us and we think about them whenever we hire anyone to do any work.

We used to think that occasional workers were different that full time workers.

Curious as to what the law actually says---for whatever that is worth. :biggrin:

Alan - 1-21-2011 at 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT
Curious as to what the law actually says---for whatever that is worth. :biggrin:

I think you hit the nail squarely on the head here. As most everything in Baja I assume it depends upon the specific interpreter on that specific day, subject of course to the ambient climatical condition and it's relation to the current lunar phase.

[Edited on 1-21-2011 by Alan]

DENNIS - 1-21-2011 at 10:58 AM

Yeah...don't ever think the actual wording of a law has anything to do with reality as it is down here. It seems that any agency or functionary thereof can do as he pleases and if backed into a corner through an expensive defense, only has to back off without so much as a wrist slap.

longlegsinlapaz - 1-21-2011 at 12:57 PM

Habla Ingles??

http://www.rollybrook.com/employee-pay.htm

http://www.rollybrook.com/labor_law.htm

Habla Espanol?? Here's the official website:

http://www.diputados.gob.mx/LeyesBiblio/pdf/125.pdf

monoloco - 1-21-2011 at 01:20 PM

If you have been paying the gardener under the table, be careful, he can report you to IMSS and you will be required to pay back seguros, aguinaldos, and penalties.

Dave - 1-21-2011 at 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
How about housekeeping help, 5 hours a week for several years, whom, after she quit, took us to court/mediator, and stuck us for $300.00.

That's it?

You should get down on your knees and thank the Lord you got off so cheaply.

Seriously.

DianaT - 1-21-2011 at 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alan
As most everything in Baja I assume it depends upon the specific interpreter on that specific day, subject of course to the ambient climatical condition and it's relation to the current lunar phase.

[Edited on 1-21-2011 by Alan]

But it is what it is!

Thanks longlegs for the links.

vandenberg - 1-21-2011 at 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
How about housekeeping help, 5 hours a week for several years, whom, after she quit, took us to court/mediator, and stuck us for $300.00.

That's it?

You should get down on your knees and thank the Lord you got off so cheaply.

Seriously.

Not really. According to the law, when a domestic worker quits voluntarily, no severance pay is required. And the vacation pay and christmas bonus was taken care of.
So a $300.00 ripoff. But too difficult to fight without a major hassle.
This, according to LL post:
"If the employee quits voluntarily, termination pay is not required."
Like my previous post stated: Beware !!

Cypress - 1-21-2011 at 02:41 PM

Always did my on gardening, but I quit, too much work. :biggrin:

DENNIS - 1-21-2011 at 04:07 PM

People come to Mexico with education, generosity and a desire to understand, and they're confronted, no.... overwhelmed with the threats of a toilet cleaner which are backed up by a government agency?
Gimme a freakin break.
Have them sign a contract at the start of their employment...weekly...if that's what it takes.

Or...let your toilet cleaner run your life. Give her your checkbook and credit card.
You are no longer in charge.

No argument here

Dave - 1-21-2011 at 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vandenberg
Not really. According to the law, when a domestic worker quits voluntarily, no severance pay is required. And the vacation pay and christmas bonus was taken care of.
So a $300.00 ripoff.

Just about the price. I've never gotten out of a labor dispute for less than a couple K. $300 seems petty considering you could get a 1/2 dozen hookers for about the same money. :rolleyes:

Pescador - 1-21-2011 at 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
I don't believe that intermittant workers are entitled to the benefits of full-time employees. Basically, you hire them for the day or for the job. Same with your house keeper. If that were not the case, you would have to pay benefits to every person who did anything for you, such as fix your flat tire or wash your car.
The labor authorities will side with the employee in some cases to squeeze an employer only because they know they can get away with it. Especially a foreigner who is basically defenseless
I'm not suggesting the issue should escalate to the point of lawyers etc, but right or wrong, the government has nothing to lose. It's just a residual of the days of rampant power abuse.

One of the traps that a lot of Mexico transplants fall into is the thinking that Mexico is just like the US only cheaper. One of the reasons that business is so hard to develop and keep going is the underlying philosophy of the government of Mexico which is very liberal and Philosophic in nature and tends to think that taking the case of the worker instead of the person doing the hiring will mean that things always end up helping the worker. The only problem with that is that it has a tendency to "Kill the Golden Goose That Laid the Egg" and makes small business a real nightmare of snares and traps that catches the unaware by the "Short Hairs" and completely unprepared for the consequences of doing business in a country that is not very responsive to helping the small business man.
Witness the current law of banking that was set up to stop all of the money laundering which prohibits you putting more than $4,000 dollars US in your Mexican account during any given month and paying a 3% tax on all deposits after $15,000 pesos ( about $1,200 US) . I know a business person locally who has to do an extra 5% each month just to pay this tax which was only set up to effect the money laundering, but which makes a great impact on their income since a lot of accounts come from US dollars which must be deposited. When this same person had to finally let go an employee who did not show up to work and refused to work on the evenings that she was needed, the government actually fined the business owner $3,000 US for termination.
So when you are wondering, like I do at times, why there is not more small business in Mexico, you might look a little more closely at how restrictive it might be to do business in Mexico. As long as you are able to do it yourself and not get involved in hiring others, you might find it possible to do, but things go sideways rather quickly when you try to hire someone else to assist you.

DENNIS - 1-21-2011 at 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador

I think you pretty much said what I had said. I usually use fewer words to make a point.
Can't be assured to this point to thank you or jump down your effing throat.
I'll do my best to figure it out.

Leo - 1-21-2011 at 08:34 PM

Oh you guys and gals. I am impressed with all your responses and if we would live in a perfect world and had prices to award, I would do it as follows :biggrin:

;
Dennis; double winner, one for most cynical (toilet cleaner) and one for funniest (rattle snakes)
Mcfez; for most straight forward.
Monoloco; for most suspicious, under what table?
Alan; most realistic; outcome depending on so many variables.
Vandenberg; saddest. I researched the subject in the Nomad history and saw your story of being hit on this before.
B.Blanca; most useful

So far I have only been inquiring what my options are before 'the actual firing' and he has not shown up for work this week.

vandenberg - 1-21-2011 at 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Just about the price. I've never gotten out of a labor dispute for less than a couple K. $300 seems petty considering you could get a 1/2 dozen hookers for about the same money. :rolleyes:

Charlie Sheen know about this ? :biggrin:

Salsa - 1-22-2011 at 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
People come to Mexico with education, generosity and a desire to understand, and they're confronted, no.... overwhelmed with the threats of a toilet cleaner which are backed up by a government agency?
Gimme a freakin break.
Have them sign a contract at the start of their employment...weekly...if that's what it takes.

Or...let your toilet cleaner run your life. Give her your checkbook and credit card.
You are no longer in charge.

OR...

Stay up North and give THE GOVERNMENT your checkbook and credit card.
You are no longer in charge.

Don

mcfez - 1-22-2011 at 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Leo
Oh you guys and gals. I am impressed with all your responses and if we would live in a perfect world and had prices to award, I would do it as follows :biggrin:

Why does DENNIS always win? :lol:

Leo - 1-22-2011 at 09:04 PM

because of his humor?
"Raise Rattlesnakes in the Rose bushes.
Put hidden speakers in the Petunias that scream with pain when he clips them.
Have your trees talk to him.
Tighten the wheels on your lawnmower.
Plant Poisen Ivy all around your house. "

I hadn't laughed so much for a long time when I read that.

BTW 'HE' showed up today and worked very hard. Now what?

bajalou - 1-22-2011 at 09:14 PM

You might find out what the required minimum wage for a gardener is. Then drop his pay to that and many times the employee will quit rather than work for less. I've heard of businesses around here doing that.

Lobsterman - 1-23-2011 at 05:42 AM

You're gonna have to learn how to play with the cards you're dealt. I sense a bit of sentiment in your reply.

oldlady - 1-23-2011 at 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Leo

BTW 'HE' showed up today and worked very hard. Now what?

Ask him what his user name is on Baja Nomad.

krafty - 1-23-2011 at 12:05 PM

Neighbor had a housekeeper for a couple of years who she suspected of stealing-stuff, not money. Well, she let her go and ended up having to pay an additional $1500 dollars thru the govt.. BE CAREFUL

motoged - 1-23-2011 at 12:37 PM

getting rid of your gardener ???

Call Jimmy.....and .....

(a Canadian solution):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIgae18pxzs

Cypress - 1-23-2011 at 02:41 PM

Getting rid of a lazy employee that doesn't do what he/she is paid to do is a problema? OK???

Leo - 1-24-2011 at 07:42 PM

That youtube is prety funny, Motoged.
I might just do that, forget about the whole thing.

[Edited on 1-25-2011 by Leo]

[Edited on 1-25-2011 by Leo]