Santa Isabel Found - not joking - nomad wanted

All joking aside, I believe I have found the site of what people call the lost mission of Santa Isabel using Google Earth...please pause here to laugh ...

Now that you're done laughing, please look closely at the images in this post. One is a rough drawing I made of what I think I see there. The other is a screenshot from Google Earth converted to grayscale. The site matches the location and description from at least three of the most popular legend stories, and it is built on a MUCH LARGER complex of ancient sites that will rewrite what is known of pre-columbian Baja civilization.

I've tried contacting nine different professors from various parts of academia. Only one of them gave me the time of day and he loves what he sees, but like myself, he wants someone to go onsite to confirm it.

I'd love to go onsite, but I'm the father of four daughters (one with special needs) and I'm a 26 hour drive from the site and I really can't get away for a trip like that.

So...I'm looking for a nomad with an adventurous spirit who is willing to drive to a remote spot in Baja California and then hike for about 3 miles to the site. There will be MANY other ruins along the way. Before you go I will provide Google Earth KML files so that you can look at the area yourself and make sure I'm not just a nutjob.

All joking aside, if this does pan out and I really am seeing what I think I'm seeing, this site is vulnerable to looting and needs to be protected as much as possible. Mexican government involvement is a must as soon as we have confirmation of the site.

So, if you're interested in writing yourself into this story, please let me know. I won't listen to anybody who isn't a long-time active member of this site because to open this up to anybody would only increase the chances that someone with the wrong intentions would get to go there. I will also want a promise that you will not disturb ANYTHING at the site.

Any takers?

If not, I'll start posting more and more and more pictures of architecture and ancient public works projects until someone bites.

I know it's hard to understand the scale of what you are looking at in these pics and I know how well our eyes can get tricked by Google Earth, but trust me, these images hold up under scrutiny.

(edited to add the words "STILL" and "please" to the title)

[Edited on 3-18-2011 by elbeau]

[Edited on 5-2-2011 by elbeau]

Not bad, Codo.

Having been to one lost mission site already ( http://vivabaja.com/109 ), I am game for another... elbeau (elbow=codo)

Sadly, there was no documentation ever of a mission named Santa Isabel. It was a story handed down, believed to be a Dominican site rather than a Jesuit one. However, it was the Jesuits who were removed by force from the New World in 1767-8... and so they were usually the ones connected to lost mission stories. Santa Clara and Santa Isabel being the most well known. See also http://vivabaja.com/1757

Choral Pepper was one of many writers who searched for Santa Isabel near Puertecitos... Others believed it to be closer to Matomi, San Juan de Dios, or in the lower San Pedro Martir. Erle Stanley Gardner thought he spotted it closer to Laguna Chapala... All good fun desert exploration!

Here is a story from 1941:

One of several Baja and Mexican stories in the 1941 book 'Golden Mirages' by Philip A. Bailey that deals mostly with Southern California and Arizona treasure stories...

The 4 page story starts and ends mid page...









Here is a map with the place names mentioned in this story circled in blue... at the approx. distance from San Fernando and Santa Maria, and at the approx. heading from San Agustin IS the Sierra Santa Isabel, near Puertecitos.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a story from 1967:

This is another gem from my collection of Choral Pepper's saved Baja magazine articles!

This article called 'Una casa grandote, una cruz arriba (Some further words on the controversy over "The Lost Mission" Santa Isabel)' by Harold O. Weight was published in the September, 1967 issue of Westways Magazine.

It is the best Santa Isabel, found story I think I have read so far!













Here is the area with the water hole plotted and a 12 mile radius out drawn in...





Let the hunt begin!

Of interest, here is the spring from the story: Agua del Mezquitito (2.4 miles south of Okie Landing/ 15 miles north of Gonzaga Bay)...





This is me (age 16) in 1974 on my first Baja trip without parents. I returned here in 2002 and a corral of tires was made around the water hole.


Here is Rancho Parral... a few miles north of Matomi:




RANCHO EL PARRAL 30°29.42', 115°06.97'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the upper Matomi canyon with its blue palms... Photo from Mexitron, 2004:




Santa Isabel could be just around the bend?

...And I agree, there was probably now "mission" named Santa Isabel, but this site sure could explain why the stories abound. What I really think it is is a much more ancient site extending into the hills around it. There are two adobe-looking structures at the site that seems to have generated the "mission" stories, including the spidery looking building pictured above. The other ruins are colored very differently and are much more overgrown...so don't get your hopes up for buried treasure, but that doesn't mean you won't be "King Nomad" anyways

jk

hey elbeau:
DK is the "bloviator in chief." He is also the uber politcal lightning rod, and resident nomad mission-head. If he believes your mission story, he will be your publicist, mentor and defender. sadly, he is a teabag

how did you sketch the mission from that nebulous google photo?

Quote:

Originally posted by elbeau

This feature has been turned over to David K. He has everything he needs to know where to go and what to look for. I just wish I could go

elbeau

Mission Hunt

Well, you certainly stirred up "interest", and now you will have to contend with some VERY FRUSTRATED folks since you suddenly got very secretive!!!!

Thank Gawd that at least you shared with David---------I look forward to hearing about whatever you guys/gals find--------and if not, a contract may be issued on you, or at least the black helecoptor boys will be sent.

No matter what it is you id'ed, it is fascinating, to say the least. I got to see the original post, tho briefly, and that did it for me-------has to be checked out, for sure.

Barry

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A. Well, you certainly stirred up "interest", and now you will have to contend with some VERY FRUSTRATED folks since you suddenly got very secretive!!!!

Sorry Barry, but the only reason I posted at all was to try to get somebody to go to the site and see if I'm just crazy or if it's actually there.

I haven't heard from David K. I'm very interested to know if he can see what I am seeing at the site. By now he knows that what I posted earlier is not a joke and is really just a small fraction of what I think is actually there...and what he DOESN'T know is that the stuff I sent him is actually a fraction of what I --think-- is in the area around it. I'm waiting to hear if he is buying into what I sent already before I send him coordinates and descriptions of a feature that will completely blow his mind

Trust me, the stuff I haven't sent him yet makes finding Santa Isabel a minor news item.

Quote:

Originally posted by elbeau Quote: Originally posted by Barry A. Well, you certainly stirred up "interest", and now you will have to contend with some VERY FRUSTRATED folks since you suddenly got very secretive!!!! Sorry Barry, but the only reason I posted at all was to try to get somebody to go to the site and see if I'm just crazy or if it's actually there. I haven't heard from David K. I'm very interested to know if he can see what I am seeing at the site. By now he knows that what I posted earlier is not a joke and is really just a small fraction of what I think is actually there...and what he DOESN'T know is that the stuff I sent him is actually a fraction of what I --think-- is in the area around it. I'm waiting to hear if he is buying into what I sent already before I send him coordinates and descriptions of a feature that will completely blow his mind Trust me, the stuff I haven't sent him yet makes finding Santa Isabel a minor news item.

If this was a trick, you would have heard one of two things from David k: either I never sent him the coords, or the thing in the pic wasn't at the coords.

I assure you I did send him the coordinates and the thing in the pic is at the coordinates along with a whole lot of other oddly man-made-looking old-looking stuff. Like I said ALL ALONG, I have ONLY looked at satellite imagery of this stuff myself, there may not be anything there at all, but there may be. Just be patient, you'll probably all be packing your stuff for a trip with David tomorrow or you'll be loading your weapons for a hunting trip for a codo tomorrow (yes, Vandenburg did finally tell me what that meant). Either way, it should be exciting for me

I really hope I am not right....

i just hope there's no secret surf spots nearby!

Good one!

Quote:

Originally posted by woody with a view i just hope there's no secret surf spots nearby!

Now THAT would be terrific!!

ohhhhhhhhhhhh if it is anywhere close to us in la bocana, puhleeeeeeeez let us know David !!!!

Honestly, I can't say I'd think any differently if I were you

I'm out there under this username in other places. Heck, I sell my own geology iPhone app at elbeaus.com. Send an email to support@elbeaus.com and I'll repeat it back to you. I didn't mention my site earlier because I didn't want you guys thinking I was just spamming your forums.

I know how crazy my post sounds, but think of it from my point of view. I've been trying to get someone to visit this site for weeks now, I'm very frustrated that the people I've contacted about it won't give me the time of day, and I can't go to the site myself. The ONLY reason I posted here today was to try to get ANYBODY's attention who would be in a position to go snap some photos of the site. After David logged on and offered to go and a couple people vouched for him I had accomplished what I wanted to do in this thread. It's not my fault that he won't respond to me or you. I'm giving him the benefit of a doubt that he's busy today and wasn't ready to drop everything and go hunting for a lost mission, etc..

Think about it, there's no way to call me dishonest about this without implicating bahanomad's uber-member David K also...so what you're left with is two possibilities:

1. I'm a nutjob who thinks he can do archaeology on Google Earth.
2. I'm not a nutjob and still think I can do archaeology on Google Earth.

Either way, it's worth checking out. Believe me, I'm following this thread closer than any of you. I've been waiting to see what's actually there much longer

Hell yes!

When we do go? Absolute sounds better, your idea. I'll bring the broads

Sounds like a job for............Capt. Mike!

[Edited on 3-3-2011 by jeans]

Maybe----------I have 90, according to my last count, but I admit that some are duplicates.

Barry

"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again...then quit! There's no sense in being a fool about it" - Mark Twain

I give up. Academia won't listen, nomads can't open files. Here you go...all the coords for all the sites can be found in this KML file which for some reason is unopenable by DK's computer:

Google Earth File With Coordinates

You might first notice from DK's first post about the old mission story from 1941 that the 12-mile line drawn on the map at the bottom goes almost right over this site.

Here's another (little more reliable) account that fits this site:


The Californian

You can flip back a page and see how the story leads into this page, but to sum it up, it's the story of an early explorer who sailed down the Colorado river into the Gulf of California. He describes the islands in the gulf very well, then starts in on his journey that found "Santa Isabel". Reading his story, since he lists all the islands going down the gulf, it gives the impression that the starting point for his journey is farther South, but my site would mean that what he meant was that he was starting from the first island he mentioned (the one he actually says he's at). From there the distances and land descriptions are spot on and his description of the site looks great too. If his story is right, it probably means that it is a mission site because of the detail in which he describes the bells from the bell tower. Also, look straight down at the site then zoom out a little. See the "Stone Corral"? It's across the river and pretty comparatively easy to see.

If you're having trouble making anything out in the images, please double-click the pin for the arches going up the mountain side. I find them to be one of the easiest features to discern. Another discernible feature is the brown tower on top of what I call a "fortress-like" structure.

---!!! PLEASE NOTE: !!!--- Google Earth can flip, twist, and distort satellite imagery all over the place. Each of the pins on the map have a very particular view associated with them which I think is the best view for that feature. Instead of just zooming straight in to each feature from above, please double-click the pins so you can see the features the same way I do. You can "uncheck" the boxes next in the list of features on the left pane of Google Earth to toggle them on and off. This helps so that my text doesn't appear over the feature I want you to see. Some features are easier to see than others, and a couple of them (ie: the statue) is admittedly a stretch, but all of them are MUCH easier to see on a very high-resolution (many pixels per inch) screen. The best viewing is with an iPhone 4 with it's retina display. It really makes a big difference to not have the screen contributing to the blurriness of an already blurry picture.

Of course, feel free to flip, twist and whirl Google Earth around to see if what I'm seeing holds up using different angles of sight. I would do no less and I would view it with an eye of skepticism if someone was asking me to make a trip like this.

Here are a few snapshots of what I see and interpret. I'm sure this will inspire plenty of debate, but what it really needs is a couple photos from the ground...PLEASE!...PLEASE just go and see if it's really there.

First, here's my drawing of the so-called "Mission" site with some Google Earth measurements:



...And here are Google Earth screen captures of the site I think I see. The site looks cool, but there are two elusive questions:

1. Why would the Jesuits (or whoever) built a "secret mission" so elegantly?
2. Why does there appear to be two types of construction materials? One looks brown like adobe, the other looks gray and more overgrown.






Next is the image that looks like the front to a fortress or something, although that interpretation seems highly unlikely given the lack of significant shadows and the topography. Notice the adobe-looking tower with a shadow in the top-right corner of what looks like the big structure:




Next is the feature that I intrepret as the "Stone Corral" that is often mentioned in the lost mission stories:


Next is a feature that I think is one of the more visible features when using Google Earth. It's a series of archways going up a trail cut deep into a mountainside. If you pan around it in Google Earth you can faintly see another large archway-wall perpendicular to the arches going up the hill. That perpendicular wall also appears to be the beginning of a trail up to the entrance to a cave or mine or something:


Next is an admittedly blurry image of what I think is a standing building with interesting architecture. The building is fuzzy, but the shadow it makes is distinguishable:



Now for the good (or completely insane) stuff ...........

The rest of these pictures are my interpretation of the features in an area of the Zamora river basin (which DK is right about, it is blue which gives it the appearance of a flowing river at times, but really it is just colored by all the copper in the hills around it. It is a river basin approximately 190 +/- feet wide the has a "sometimes-stream" flowing through it. By itself, it could never support a significant population, but although they are hard to make out now, if you follow the white staining that the water gives in the area it flows (or stands in the case of a resivoir) you can get an idea of what I'm talking about :






Anyways, no more "Black Helicopter" "Secret Ops" coverup stuff. I've exhausted all reasonable avenues for trying to both discover and protect this site. Will somebody PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE go take some pics and try to get the site recognized and protected? please?

please?

please?

...sigh...

Better

Here's a higher-level shot with some broader features noted:

Who are you?

Well said. I'm not trying to create an endless debate here. All I want is some on-the-ground confirmation or a picture of the 95-foot shrub that is making me see things wrong

get some better photos, they are out there and free on web

That would be great TW... take as many photos of the site and include a look from the arroyoup to it and from it down to the arroyo. This should clear up a lot.

Here are my Google Earth images of the site (marked with white balloon 'site b') from high to close with north at top, and sideways (west) from the arroyo.



The 'mystery runway' is at the end of a road that branches left, 2.0 miles from El Marmol off the El Volcan road. It is a ditched drug runner airstrip. There are others in this part of Baja!

I’ve been down this arroyo at least 3 miles. About ½ mi. from the arroyo junction (where if you crossed it would continue to the mine), to the right, there are some pools, some new onyx domes, streams, where I’m sure following a big rain, an area could fill to resemble a lake. Further down the arroyo we saw lots of borrego prints, lots of tamarask, but we didn’t venture on either side of the arroyo up any cliffs or side canyons, etc. It’s really great country for a hike. Some views of an area where pools accumulate and new onyx is being created.

YAY! I can survive two more weeks...I guess

Can't wait to see what you do or don't find.

An excellent book by Baja Nomad member 'GregN'... The link above takes you to the chapter on Santa Isabel.... and if you scroll down, another chapter on the other lost mission fable 'Santa Clara' near Punta Abreojos...

The book is a good one for your own home library... Get one from Greg's web site or your favorite Baja book dealer!

Just finished this book 2 weeks ago. A must have book.

When is your book coming out David?

When I have seen where every dirt road in Baja goes! (may take my entire life)

Now here's the book we all need to read before the search begins!

New View Of The Mission Site

While waiting for our first report from TW, I'm going to revise what I think is our best view of the mission site. Looking from a better angle made a lot of new things make sense. I don't have a drawing yet like my first view of the site, but take a look from a northern perspective and you'll see that I had the landslide going uphill

...Also, once you get this perspective, take a look at the top of the groove where the arches are.

Also, 10 points to whoever can find the feature that looks like a car from the 20's

Meanwhile...I wait...and I wait...and I wait...to see if I'm sane or not

If TW does confirm the existence of the site then I'll post a WHOLE LOT more that is in and around the arroyo area.

Quote:

Originally posted by elbeau While waiting for our first report from TW, I'm going to revise what I think is our best view of the mission site. Looking from a better angle made a lot of new things make sense. I don't have a drawing yet like my first view of the site, but take a look from a northern perspective and you'll see that I had the landslide going uphill

elbow:
i suppose you should be allowed to dream,...
i just think you are imagining things. your images are such that you are either foolish, dumb, or a sly fox trying to prank some unsuspecting rube to waste a day in the desert while you cackle in your lair in nevada.

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666 elbow: i suppose you should be allowed to dream,... i just think you are imagining things. your images are such that you are either foolish, dumb, or a sly fox trying to prank some unsuspecting rube to waste a day in the desert while you cackle in your lair in nevada.

Wow, a flamer. I never would have guessed someone would mock me in an internet forum...so painful

...but for anyone else following this thread, it's still quite interesting to look around and Google updated a lot of their data recently. Talking to DK and others it appears the arroyo was used for a travel route around 1905 +/- and it's possible some or much of what we're looking at could date from that time, but I still think there's a good enough case for older ruins to warrant investigation. We'll see I guess

Thanks Greg!

Here's a photo of us back in Oct. 2000 at Viva Baja #1, just a bit before your second Baja book was published, Baja Legends...




Nomads also there at Viva Baja #1 who are online now, were Baja Amigos back then: Amo Pescar, Ken Cooke and Jack Swords were there, as well as Doug Means (Baja Nomad), Paulina, Taco Felix (Jay), David E, Juan del Rio, etc.

Baja has a way of getting into our blood and it becomes a lifelong addiction!



[Edited on 3-11-2011 by David K]

UPDATE FROM TW in San Felipe 3-11-11