BajaNomad

more on getting what you pay for at the pump

durrelllrobert - 3-13-2011 at 09:04 AM

I got this from a friend of mine:

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TIPS ON PUMPING GAS
I don't know what you guys are paying for gasoline.... but here in California we are paying up to $3.75 to $4.10 per gallon. My line of work is in petroleum for about 31 years now, so here are some tricks to get more of your money's worth for every gallon:

Here at the Kinder Morgan Pipeline where I work in San Jose , CA we deliver about 4 million gallons in a 24-hour period thru the pipeline.. One day is diesel the next day is jet fuel, and gasoline, regular and premium grades. We have 34-storage tanks here with a total capacity of 16,800,000 gallons.

Only buy or fill up your car or truck in the early morning when the ground temperature is still cold. Remember that all service stations have their storage tanks buried below ground. The colder the ground the more dense the gasoline, when it gets warmer gasoline expands, so buying in the afternoon or in the evening....your gallon is not exactly a gallon. In the petroleum business, the specific gravity and the temperature of the gasoline, diesel and jet fuel, ethanol and other petroleum products plays an important role.

A 1-degree rise in temperature is a big deal for this business. But the service stations do not have temperature compensation at the pumps.

When you're filling up do not squeeze the trigger of the nozzle to a fast mode If you look you will see that the trigger has three (3) stages: low, middle, and high. You should be pumping on low mode, thereby minimizing the vapors that are created while you are pumping. All hoses at the pump have a vapor return. If you are pumping on the fast rate, some of the liquid that goes to your tank becomes vapor. Those vapors are being sucked up and back into the underground storage tank so you're getting less worth for your money.

One of the most important tips is to fill up when your gas tank is HALF FULL. The reason for this is the more gas you have in your tank the less air occupying its empty space. Gasoline evaporates faster than you can imagine. Gasoline storage tanks have an internal floating roof. This roof serves as zero clearance between the gas and the atmosphere, so it minimizes the evaporation. Unlike service stations, here where I work, every truck that we load is temperature compensated so that every gallon is actually the exact amount.

Another reminder, if there is a gasoline truck pumping into the storage tanks when you stop to buy gas, DO NOTfill up; most likely the gasoline is being stirred up as the gas is being delivered, and you might pick up some of the dirt that normally settles on the bottom.

[Edited on 3-13-2011 by durrelllrobert]

Woooosh - 3-13-2011 at 09:14 AM

Thanks. Question though- I would think the temperature of gas in underground storage tanks is more determined by the temperature of the dirt surrounding it, not the air above ground. Didn't know about the flow and in-tank evaporation issues- thanks.

durrelllrobert - 3-13-2011 at 10:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Thanks. Question though- I would think the temperature of gas in underground storage tanks is more determined by the temperature of the dirt surrounding it, not the air above ground. Didn't know about the flow and in-tank evaporation issues- thanks.

Correct: Almost everywhere across the entire planet, the upper 10 feet below ground level stays the same temperature, between 50 and 60 degrees Fahrenheit (10 and 16 degrees C). If you've ever been in a basement of a building or in a cavern below ground, the temperature of the area is almost always cool. However, the lines running from the tank to the pump are usually only 2-3 ft deep and are affected by the air temperature and a 2" pipe that is 40 ft long holds 7 gallons of fuel. When he said 1 degree temp difference was a big deal he I'm sure was talking about the ABOVE GROUND STORAGE TANKS.

Debra - 3-13-2011 at 03:44 PM

I had no idea, thanks!

Bajahowodd - 3-13-2011 at 04:17 PM

There is no question that the suggestions posted will save money.

But. I'm thinking that the price of gas has become an overblown issue in the US. Not to understate my personal feelings that commodity traders manipulate the price for their own personal profit.

If folks really want to see realistic gas prices, they need to work toward eliminating the middlemen that add no value, but rather add to the cost of gas.

But, at the end of the day, it seems to me that for reasons I cannot fathom, Americans have become obsessed with the price of fuel.

Unless you drive a gypsy cab in some urban area, or made the conscious decison to live 100 miles from where you work, the price of gas is a non-issue.

I really don't get it. Retailers all over create situations where the old bait nd switch florishes.

Any of you recently thrown out stale dated food?

We are continually screwed by the system. But, I just don't get the idea that having to pay an additional $2 for a fill up somehow is a trigger point for a movement.???:?::?::?:

mtgoat666 - 3-13-2011 at 04:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
There is no question that the suggestions posted will save money.

But. I'm thinking that the price of gas has become an overblown issue in the US. Not to understate my personal feelings that commodity traders manipulate the price for their own personal profit.

If folks really want to see realistic gas prices, they need to work toward eliminating the middlemen that add no value, but rather add to the cost of gas.

But, at the end of the day, it seems to me that for reasons I cannot fathom, Americans have become obsessed with the price of fuel.


getting rid of middle men or foreign influences will never happen. wishing for increased supply is hopeless. if you are sensitive to fuel prices, then easiest solution is to cut back on your fuel use. increase the efficiency of your energy use. decrease your energy use.

bajalou - 3-13-2011 at 07:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
We are continually screwed by the system. But, I just don't get the idea that having to pay an additional $2 for a fill up somehow is a trigger point for a movement.???:?::?::?:


$2 ? How about $25 or $30 ADDITIONAL on a fillup?

Lauriboats - 3-14-2011 at 07:46 AM

Thanks, every little bit helps and this could save a lot over a long period of time.

mcfez - 3-14-2011 at 09:14 AM

Fuel increases get passed on to our clients. Currently I have a $125.00 fuel surcharge for all sites. The gas price increase affects not only your car.....

To say that the easiest solution is to cut back on your fuel use....is right....to only a small point. Our trucks have to go to the sites and back. There is no way to cut back on that.

There are family's that already have cut back...such as us....and cannot "make gas cheaper" by magic.

...."trigger point for a movement......sounds like one has a money tree or just dont have a sense for money management.

[Edited on 3-14-2011 by mcfez]

dtutko1 - 3-15-2011 at 06:39 AM

You have no constitutional right to cheap gas. As a country we import 70% of our oil creating the large imbalance of trade. Often from countries that don't like us. We are financing both sides of the wars our kids are dieing in. We are/have been paying less at the pump than the rest of the world. Unfortunatly the cost of fuel is the #1 reason we conserve or use less, and the #1 reason to use alternatives that will correct the above problems and pollute less.

no big wup

mtgoat666 - 3-15-2011 at 06:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dtutko1
You have no constitutional right to cheap gas. As a country we import 70% of our oil creating the large imbalance of trade. Often from countries that don't like us. We are financing both sides of the wars our kids are dieing in. We are/have been paying less at the pump than the rest of the world. Unfortunatly the cost of fuel is the #1 reason we conserve or use less, and the #1 reason to use alternatives that will correct the above problems and pollute less.


yep.
people have known that days of cheap fuel would not last forever. they had their chance to change their wasteful ways and chose not to. tough cookies. i don't care. fools were dumb to buy uneconomical vehicles.

wessongroup - 3-15-2011 at 06:59 AM

Let's make $10/gallon and see what happens .... to the current distribution system full with no place to go ........ just saying...

durrelllrobert - 3-15-2011 at 10:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by soulpatch

The amount of expansion while the pipe travels the short distance from the tank to the nozzles would be hard to quantify since liquid expansion in closed vessel is minimal.


so thats why an alchol termometer doesn't work?

The coefficant of expansion for Gasoline = 0.000950 / (C or K)

We'll say a 15 degree (C or K) temperature change.

ΔV = V0βΔT

ΔV = (1gallon)(0.000950)(15)

ΔV = 0.01425gallons

So at night, you get 1 gallon and the next day it expands to 1.01425 gallons.

It breaks down to this:

if during the day you pay $40. At night you would get that same amount of gas for $39.44.