BajaNomad

My Baja truck question for you experts!

Baja Bucko - 4-18-2011 at 09:57 PM

Don't know where else to ask this here but I think somebody may have some idea as what to do or what is going on.......

I have a 2003 Ford Ranger 4WD 5 spd stick that is perfect for little ole' me-got big tires and its gotten me everywhere I want to go in Baja-ok I don't take it places where its going to cost a ton of money to fix...mules are good for that.

At abt 53,000 miles sometimes when I pressed the clutch pedal to the floor it seemed like maybe it was hanging up on carpet as the pedal was within 2-3" of the floor...but there is nothing to hang it up. Worried enough abt it and Ford replaced the master and slave cylinders (clutch was not replaced as they didn't think it was the problem). Ok-fast forward 11 months and 12,000 miles-I'm almost home from my latest Baja trip-2 hrs from home, stop to get gas. When I push the clutch pedal down to move out of the spot the pedal stayed on the floor. I used my hand to bring it back up....this kept happening several times over a 10 minute period. I could not move the truck.

Eventually the clutch pedal acted normal and I drove to another parking spot and called the local Ford place. Drove it 5 miles with NO problem at all to the Ford place. They looked things over, could NOT get the problem to occur and said everything looked fine and they said fluid levels were ok. I drove it 180 miles home w NO problem at all.

Have searched the internet and picked Neal's brain-general consensus is it is NOT the clutch but can only be the master or slave cylinders which, by the way, the warranty had 200 miles left when I took it to the Ford place 2 hrs from home!!!!

Soooooanybody here have any ideas abt this??? I thought maybe I'd save the money up and replace clutch and both cylinders (UUUGGGHH!) before my next Baja trip but geez, is that going to fix it???

One recommendation was to get a non-Ford rebuild kit for both cylinders and have a non-Ford person do the work AND also carry a rebuild kit with me in Mexico.

I am not a mechanic and having this problem in Mexico is something I'd like to avoid.

I would have thought that waiting in line at the border 4 days ago for 2 hrs of "clutching" would have brought this on but I drove 1000 miles home before it happened.

ANY IDEAS GUYS????:?:

When I'm riding mules I NEVER have these kinds of problems.....

David K - 4-18-2011 at 10:17 PM

Time to get a Toyota? But don't buy one from Neal!!! :lol:






[Edited on 4-19-2011 by David K]

gnukid - 4-18-2011 at 10:29 PM

Check the Flux capacitor.

Cirio - 4-18-2011 at 11:02 PM

I had a very similar thing happen, albeit with the 58 Chevy p/u I've driven for the past 5 years that eventually put me in the hospital with CO poisoning last October. It did basically the same thing with the brakes you describe just before the top end of the master cylinder broke off while driving down a main street. As I veered into the gas station the horrified look on my face and the big old beast scattered pedestrians as I grabbed the e-brake. When I removed the master cylinder and took a closer look, the rubber seals were falling apart inside and I was getting intermittent braking and non-braking.

The other thing you should look at first is anything that may have gotten between the clutch arm between the floorboard and underneath such as a small pebble and jammed. Take a close look and it wouldn't hurt to take a compressor to it to blow out any dust or debris. On my last mechanic visit they stated that I had been driving with the wrong clutch adjustment so all it might need is an adjustment. I remember the clutch pedal was significantly higher after their adjustment. It didn't cost much for the adjustment. Just a thought.

jenny.navarrette - 4-18-2011 at 11:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Baja Bucko
Have searched the internet and picked Neal's brain-general consensus is it is NOT the clutch but can only be the master or slave cylinders


The general consensus is wrong. It IS the clutch. The springs in the clutch, which hold the clutch plates together and transmit power from the engine to the transmission, are also the same force that pushes the clutch pedal back up via the slave cylinder to the master cylinder. Something is causing a hang-up inside the clutch.

AND DON'T DRIVE LIKE MY BROTHER....

vgabndo - 4-19-2011 at 12:09 AM

BillP - 4-19-2011 at 06:59 AM

Check how the fluid line is routed as it sounds like a heat problem. If the line or the slave cylinder is too close to the exhaust it can cause the fluid to boil, putting air into the system. It's sounds like this is what happened at the gas station, once it cooled a little you were good to go. It's also possible you may have somehow lost a heat shield along the way.

FWIW, your mileage may vary.

stevelaubly - 4-19-2011 at 07:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
Check the Flux capacitor.









Or it could possibly be that your Johnson rod is loose....:lol:

Jim/Liisa - 4-19-2011 at 08:50 AM

Get under the dash and check the linkage they have some plastic parts that crack, and may cause the pedal to hang up.

desertcpl - 4-19-2011 at 09:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jim/Liisa
Get under the dash and check the linkage they have some plastic parts that crack, and may cause the pedal to hang up.




Ditto

Salsa - 4-19-2011 at 09:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jenny.navarrette
Quote:
Originally posted by Baja Bucko
Have searched the internet and picked Neal's brain-general consensus is it is NOT the clutch but can only be the master or slave cylinders


The general consensus is wrong. It IS the clutch. The springs in the clutch, which hold the clutch plates together and transmit power from the engine to the transmission, are also the same force that pushes the clutch pedal back up via the slave cylinder to the master cylinder. Something is causing a hang-up inside the clutch.


Sounds right to me.

Remember how clutches are made. They have an over center mechanism in the spring to make it easier to push the clutch in.

I think it has something to do with the over center mechanism.

Don

Bajatripper - 4-20-2011 at 07:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Time to get a Toyota? But don't buy one from Neal!!! :lol:






[Edited on 4-19-2011 by David K]


Man, that Neal is tough on Toyotas. Perhaps Toyota should hire him as a test driver, they could then change their motto to "Built Neal-Tough."

[Edited on 4-20-2011 by Bajatripper]

Bajatripper - 4-20-2011 at 08:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jenny.navarrette

The general consensus is wrong. It IS the clutch. The springs in the clutch, which hold the clutch plates together and transmit power from the engine to the transmission, are also the same force that pushes the clutch pedal back up via the slave cylinder to the master cylinder. Something is causing a hang-up inside the clutch.


This is the second time I've read a post from you, and one thing that comes through loud and clear is your certainty of your convictions. PS: the springs in the pressure plate--not the clutch--apply the pressure you overcome when activating a clutch.

Speaking as someone who has spent a great deal of time fixing cars, I'd say it is unlikely that this is a mechanical problem--such as springs and linkages (note: I said "unlikely" and not "there's no freaking way in hell it's that." You should try this type of phrasing, it leaves you an out when you're wrong, which you are batting 1.000 at by my count)

Teddy, although it seems unlikely since you had them replaced 12,000 miles ago, I'd go with either the slave or master cylinder. The rubber cup seals inside them do fail in this manner. I also thought the brake-line-too-close-to-an-exhaust theory was interesting and might explain the unexplainable. I'd eliminate that possibility first since it's the cheapest.

[Edited on 4-20-2011 by Bajatripper]

Neal Johns - 4-20-2011 at 04:42 PM

Good thinking Bajatripper.

Bajatripper - 4-20-2011 at 04:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Neal Johns
Good thinking Bajatripper.


So you'd be open to an offer from Toyota?:lol:

jenny.navarrette - 4-20-2011 at 06:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajatripper

This is the second time I've read a post from you, and one thing that comes through loud and clear is your certainty of your convictions. PS: the springs in the pressure plate--not the clutch--apply the pressure you overcome when activating a clutch.

Speaking as someone who has spent a great deal of time fixing cars, I'd say it is unlikely that this is a mechanical problem--such as springs and linkages (note: I said "unlikely" and not "there's no freaking way in hell it's that." You should try this type of phrasing, it leaves you an out when you're wrong, which you are batting 1.000 at by my count)


Thank you for your important advice on how to phrase a statement on BajaNomads. Now let me give you some advice in return, Stevie.

First of all, I NEVER SAID it was "a mechanical problem -- such as springs and linkages." What I DID say, and which you can still read up above, is "It IS the clutch. The springs in the clutch, which hold the clutch plates together and transmit power from the engine to the transmission, are also the same force that pushes the clutch pedal back up via the slave cylinder to the master cylinder. Something is causing a hang-up inside the clutch."

Please note that the operative words here are "something is causing a hang-up inside the clutch."

Now Stevie, that we have that part straight, let us review what Baja Bucko said, and read it for understanding this time around. Bucko said the original problem was that the clutch pedal would not go down all the way. Ford replaced the master and slave.

Bucko said that after the master and slave were replaced, the clutch went down and would not come up. Please note for your records that problem #1 and problem #2 are different. That is a big clue, Stevie.

Now, let us continue. Bucko said she took the Ford to the shop and the clutch fluid was OK and they could not repeat the problem. Now, my first guess would have been either low hydraulic fluid or air bubbles in the line. But since Bucko said the shop checked that, I skipped it as an option.

Here is some information for you that with all your years of fixing cars you probably didn't know. The slave cylinder in that Ford is inside the bell housing and the only way to replace it is to drop the transmission. Furthermore, the throw-out bearing is attached directly to the slave cylinder. Look it up, a*swipe.

Now please refer to my original statement, which was: "something is causing a hang-up inside the clutch." I'm guessing that either the slave is installed incorrectly, or is the wrong part number, or the throwout bearing is the wrong part number or installed incorrectly.

In summary, Stevie, please be content with ******** *** ******* to Zully every once in awhile and stay out of my line of sight with your condescending crap. You don't know jacksh*t.

[Edited on 6-23-2011 by BajaNomad]

bajalou - 4-20-2011 at 06:40 PM

The springs which provide the pressure to engage the clutch are NOT in the clutch - they are in the pressure plate. Two separate pieces. The only springs in a clutch plate are to minimize the jerk when it engages. (and not all clutch plates have them)

Now you might be correct about the slave cylinder or throwout bearing causing the problem, but with all of you're "know how", I would expect you to know the names of the parts.

J.P. - 4-20-2011 at 07:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo

I had the same problem with a Mazda/ranger I rebuilt the clutch slave cylinder and the clutch master cylinder . When it was cold it worked fine after it got up to running temp not so good. I wound up replacing both it wasnt such a big deal to fix.

Baja Bucko - 4-20-2011 at 08:35 PM

Thanks for the input, Trip---

OK let's go back and review what I said in my first post abt my truck problem...

At abt 53,000 miles I noticed that SOMETIMES when I pressed the clutch pedal down to the floor it felt a LITTLE like something was hanging up the pedal. It always was able to go all the way to the floor. That was never a problem. What I didn't like was that tiny "notchy" feeling an couple of inches BEFORE it hit the floor. Ford replaced master and slave.

NOW 12,000 miles and 11 months later I pull into a gas station returning from a Baja trip, get gas, push clutch pedal down and it stays down---I pull it up and keep trying to move the car....but each time I push the pedal to the floor it stays there.

After 10 mintues or so of trying to figure out what to do, I try again and the clutch pedal works just fine!!! I run the car to the nearest Ford place and they can't get anything to happen and they say fluid levels are fine....can't fix what isn't happening!!! So I drive home another 100 miles and have NO problem-zero-zip-nada.

I hope this rehash clears the air. NEVER before this event at 12,000 (since the new cylinders were replaced) had I had any issues except the day or so before the pedal down issue happened once or twice I had an "inkling....a very little inkling" of that "soft notchy feeling when I pushed the pedal down.

Now after spending 2 hrs in line 3 days earlier crossing at TJ that this problem might occur but not...nothing in my radar.

So any other clarifications I am happy to offer. I appreciate EVERYBODY's input and I do mean EVERYBODY!!!!

:?::?::?:

CDB - 4-20-2011 at 08:59 PM

Some of ya'll need to lighten up.
Lot of experts here on the forum
"expert" defined: x is the unknown quantity and "spurt" is a drip under pressure.:lol::lol::lol:
And I, am not an expert.:bounce:

805gregg - 4-23-2011 at 04:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Time to get a Toyota? But don't buy one from Neal!!! :lol:






[Edited on 4-19-2011 by David K]


That's the way I've seen a lots of Toyotas and Nissans.

Bajatripper - 4-24-2011 at 09:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jenny.navarrette
Thank you for your important advice on how to phrase a statement on BajaNomads. Now let me give you some advice in return, Stevie.

First of all, I NEVER SAID it was "a mechanical problem -- such as springs and linkages." What I DID say, and which you can still read up above, is "It IS the clutch. The springs in the clutch, which hold the clutch plates together and transmit power from the engine to the transmission, are also the same force that pushes the clutch pedal back up via the slave cylinder to the master cylinder. Something is causing a hang-up inside the clutch."

Please note that the operative words here are "something is causing a hang-up inside the clutch."

Now Stevie, that we have that part straight, let us review what Baja Bucko said, and read it for understanding this time around. Bucko said the original problem was that the clutch pedal would not go down all the way. Ford replaced the master and slave.

Bucko said that after the master and slave were replaced, the clutch went down and would not come up. Please note for your records that problem #1 and problem #2 are different. That is a big clue, Stevie.

Now, let us continue. Bucko said she took the Ford to the shop and the clutch fluid was OK and they could not repeat the problem. Now, my first guess would have been either low hydraulic fluid or air bubbles in the line. But since Bucko said the shop checked that, I skipped it as an option.

Here is some information for you that with all your years of fixing cars you probably didn't know. The slave cylinder in that Ford is inside the bell housing and the only way to replace it is to drop the transmission. Furthermore, the throw-out bearing is attached directly to the slave cylinder. Look it up, a*swipe.

Now please refer to my original statement, which was: "something is causing a hang-up inside the clutch." I'm guessing that either the slave is installed incorrectly, or is the wrong part number, or the throwout bearing is the wrong part number or installed incorrectly.

In summary, Stevie, please be content with slipping the chorizo to Zully every once in awhile and stay out of my line of sight with your condescending crap. You don't know jacksh*t.



Oh, jenny (fulano), you break my heart. Does this mean you won't be coming over tonight for your usual spanking?

PS: I see you've gone online and learned some more names of parts that comprise the clutch system. So, it is no longer THE CLUTCH, as per your original statement?







[Edited on 4-24-2011 by Bajatripper]

Bajatripper - 4-24-2011 at 10:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajalou
The only springs in a clutch plate are to minimize the jerk when it engages. (and not all clutch plates have them)


Thanks for that info, Bajalou. I've always wondered what the heck those springs were for.

Now, if only "jenny" had them.



[Edited on 4-24-2011 by Bajatripper]

toneart - 4-24-2011 at 11:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jenny.navarrette

...You don't know jacksh*t.


Hey! Psssst! I know Jacksh*t! How many people can claim that? :?::O

He has an aversion to grease, his linkage is wound pretty tight and he has a lot on his clutch plate. He also has a spring in his misstep. :smug:

captkw - 4-24-2011 at 01:56 PM

as a 50 yr young mec,,,I would say it's your cluch's/trow out bearing/cover plate

Baja Bucko - 4-24-2011 at 03:22 PM

Someone today said---binding pivot in the linkage, or worn bushing, or bent linkage...

What do you think??? things to consider besides the master/clutch cyl or clutch?????:?:

Bajatripper - 4-24-2011 at 08:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Baja Bucko
Someone today said---binding pivot in the linkage, or worn bushing, or bent linkage...

What do you think??? things to consider besides the master/clutch cyl or clutch?????:?:


As you might have gathered by now, Bucko, anything is a possibility. One thing working on cars for a while does is make a person humble. Just when you're sure what it is, damn if you weren't wrong. I use to suscribe to a magazine aimed at hobby mechanics named Skinned Knuckles, which had a section in every issue titled "What went wrong?" full of just such problems.

I trust you will inform us once you have found out what it is. Good luck.