BajaNomad - Tourist Card Info Straight from the Authorities

Tourist Card Info Straight from the Authorities

fatoldcapt - 5-10-2011 at 01:12 PM

After a recent trip down South, the matter of what to do with the Toutist Card came up once again. So I e-mailed the Secretary of Tourism Office. I received a reply from "HHiguera@baja.gob.mx"

Good morning Mr. Stephens

Regarding you question, you have to return the form to the Immigration office that is in Mexican Costumes in Tijuana B.C.. What you can do is:

1.- There are several parking lots in that area, and you are able to walk to Mexican customs.

2.- You can send your immigration form to our State Secretariat of Tourism P.O. Box #2448 Chula Vista Ca. Zip. 91912, and we happily can deliver it to Immigration ( We call the Immigration office and they told us that you don't have to return it personally).

Thank you for visiting our great State of Baja California.

also from "mcronaf@baja.gob.mx"

Dear Sir,

It is our pleasure, the permits can be returned in any Mexican Immigration office, on the entrance of San Ysidro or Otay International Border, and the only way that this can happen , is like you were saying, parking on the US side and walking across to the office, and reenter the US on foot

The offices are on the bridge Puerta Mexico, which goes to the International Border Mexico- US side, public hours are from 09:00 to 13:00 hrs.
Tel. 01 (664) 682 98 62, and the permit can be delivered to any officer on duty.

I hope that this can help you,
Sincerely

[Edited on 5-10-2011 by fatoldcapt]

[Edited on 5-10-2011 by fatoldcapt]

Unbelieeevable

Dave - 5-10-2011 at 01:29 PM

Walk back across to turn in the visa? Are they out of their frickin minds?

If it makes you feel better go ahead and turn in your FMM.

If they want return business they should at least make the effort to put in a box at the border.

fatoldcapt - 5-10-2011 at 01:45 PM

The good news is this:

2.- You can send your immigration form to our State Secretariat of Tourism P.O. Box #2448 Chula Vista Ca. Zip. 91912, and we happily can deliver it to Immigration ( We call the Immigration office and they told us that you don't have to return it personally).

DENNIS - 5-10-2011 at 01:54 PM

Not that it matters, but I wonder why they would want them back? They don't care who down here has one anyway.
I guess it's just a way to try and show full control without getting up off their butts and doing their job like they should.

24baja - 5-10-2011 at 01:56 PM

I guess I am a little thick or air headed, can someone explain why the visas need to be returned when we are finished with them? Thanks in advance for answering this question.

BECAUSE ITS THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mtgoat666 - 5-10-2011 at 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 24baja
I guess I am a little thick or air headed, can someone explain why the visas need to be returned when we are finished with them? Thanks in advance for answering this question.

BECAUSE ITS THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DENNIS - 5-10-2011 at 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
[BECAUSE ITS THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Total BS. If it were a law, we would have heard by now of somebody, anybody being penalized for their infraction of not returning it.

OK...anybody here ever hear of one repurcussion from not returning the visa? Just one? Didn't the INM computer throw out a red flag when someone who crap-canned their visa applied for another in the future?

BS again. If there were laws broken, someone would be here to explain the penalty.
Some of you have been beaten senseless by over-regulation.

mtgoat666 - 5-10-2011 at 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fatoldcapt
After a recent trip down South, the matter of what to do with the Toutist Card came up once again. So I e-mailed the Secretary of Tourism Office.

interesting experiment!
have you tried sending an email to the immigration department? curious to hear what they say...

reminds me of the lazlo letters

bajalou - 5-10-2011 at 03:48 PM

IF? they are registered in the INS computer system, it shows you are still in Mexico and they won't want to issue you another next time.

DENNIS - 5-10-2011 at 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalou
IF? they are registered in the INS computer system, it shows you are still in Mexico and they won't want to issue you another next time.

I've never heard of that happening, Lou. Have you?
Arn't all FMM in the computer?
If what you say is correct, there must be some sort of fine to pay and be issued another card, but I've never even once heard of this happening. I can't begin to imagine the government, or someone working for them, would overlook an opportunity to impose a fine when one is called for.

bajalou - 5-10-2011 at 04:02 PM

I haven't heard of the problem yet, Dennis, but this FMM is fairly new so I'm thinking they are just gearing up on it. They say for 6 months only so must be something if you show you've overstayed.

BTW my wife stopped to get her FMM in March and showed her application for the FMT from last year. It hadn't been stamped at the bank and she had to pay both years before they would issue the FMM for this spring.

I would have handled it differently, but it was hers so I didn't get involved.

DENNIS - 5-10-2011 at 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalou
They say for 6 months only so must be something if you show you've overstayed.

I honestly believe they're still using the "Honor System." The issue just doesn't seem to be that important to them since most tourists go by the book. It's a self-enforcing program.

Quote:

BTW my wife stopped to get her FMM in March and showed her application for the FMT from last year. It hadn't been stamped at the bank and she had to pay both years before they would issue the FMM for this spring.

I would have handled it differently, but it was hers so I didn't get involved.

Yeah....that's what she gets for volunteering to pay. Just don't let her do your taxes. :lol:

fatoldcapt - 5-10-2011 at 04:21 PM

A few weeks ago we went through Immigration Office at Mexicali to get out Tourist Cards. There were only 5 of us and there was no line. It took about 20 minutes. The reason was, they entered our information in a computer. THIS WAS SOMETHING NEW!!!

So with thoughts that there might be some future problem if we didn't turn them in, we made every effort to comply.

We go down fishing a few times every summer. I worry that because of some unresonable bureaucratic nightmare I might not be able to enter the next time I visit the Immigration Office for a Tourist Permit.

That's why I wrote them. To explain about the poor system they have in place.

But, all is not crap! The reply I posted in full (above, see option #2) included for the first time, that we may mail the damn things back.

That works for me!

[Edited on 5-10-2011 by fatoldcapt]

[Edited on 5-10-2011 by fatoldcapt]

mulegejim - 5-10-2011 at 04:46 PM

Quote:

But, all is not crap! The reply I posted in full (above, see option #2) included for the first time, that we may mail the damn things back.

That works for me!

[Edited on 5-10-2011 by fatoldcapt]

[Edited on 5-10-2011 by fatoldcapt]

Actually an address to mail the FMMs back has been posted several times in the past. I posted on May 2, 2011 an address that I have mailed my wife's back to for several years. I believe it is also the address Discover Baja gives out if you get your FMM through them. The address you give is better in that it is in the USA so the postage is less. Thanks for the post. Jim

cabobaja - 5-10-2011 at 05:02 PM

After 35 years of going back and forth....have never returned a visa. Now that I'm a citizen, I could care less. Via Mexico!

mtgoat666 - 5-10-2011 at 05:13 PM

I suggest you keep your expired fmm. Then return the expired fmm at same time you apply for the new fmm.

DENNIS - 5-10-2011 at 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
I suggest you keep your expired fmm. Then return the expired fmm at same time you apply for the new fmm.

That sounds like "begging for trouble."

mtgoat666 - 5-10-2011 at 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
I suggest you keep your expired fmm. Then return the expired fmm at same time you apply for the new fmm.

That sounds like "begging for trouble."

no, it doesn't rhyme at all

24baja - 5-10-2011 at 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

BECAUSE ITS THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks so much for your response, I really appreciate it. However, I read and hear just fine there was no need for the rude shout!!!!!! Have a nice day, Connie

burnrope - 5-10-2011 at 06:20 PM

From what I've gathered on other readings of posts on this website regarding tourist cards is that they are good for six months per year. Now that they have computers they're keeping track of them(in theory). My understanding is that when you turn it in it stops the clock, until your next visit, then you start the clock again and I don't know how that works, if you've turned it in you're depending on them to find it again to start the clock. The reason for this is to make people that stay for more than six months per year get the proper immigration paperwork, which is a FMT or something like that. Being Mexico, I'd imagine that it will be a cluster f*ck for some people, but then you'll only have to grease some palms and it will all work out. BTW, I've never gotten a tourist card in the 13 years that I've been dirt biking in Baja.

24baja - 5-10-2011 at 06:25 PM

Thanks for all the replys, I understand now. It is rare that we do not get a visa, I was not aware we were required or expected to return them. I will make sure we do so in the future. Connie

David K - 5-10-2011 at 07:03 PM

First off Thanks to fatoldcapt for posting this... and welcome to Baja Nomad!

I hope you can take the stuff that some here like to fling at new (and us old) Nomads!

Now, let me just add my 'fling' and it is not intended to be negative, just fact based... The 'authority' you went to was the state tourism dept.

These folks want tourism in their state and have said many things to encourage it. I remember when Mexico Ted had his radio show and had them on as guests...

The tourist card (FMM) is issued by the FEDERAL government department of immigration (INM) and the rules of the tourist card are theirs and not the states.

I am looking forward to a federal publication that provides the firm limits of the 'border zone', time limit in the border zone, etc.

It has been printed many years ago to be Mexicali on the gulf side and Maneadero on the Pacific side... San Felipe tourism folks have shouted so much that a tourist card isn't needed to go as far as San Felipe, that has become the accepted norm (no matter what Mexico City has published!).

The published max. time in the border zone with needing a tourist card has been 72 hours. Yet, we keep hearing 7 days being thrown about. The border zone has also been mentioned to be as far south as San Quintin, and perhaps the ENTIRE state of Baja California (Norte)!??

I look forward to seeing the federal new rules, if they are new! :light:

Thanks again!!

[Edited on 5-11-2011 by David K]

Paulina - 5-10-2011 at 07:51 PM

We made the mistake one time when applying for new tourist cards of having our expired cards on hand, tucked into our Passports. We were scolded for not turning them in when we left Mexico. We apologized, handed the old ones over and got new ones. Actually we didn't hand them over, the officer took them from us.

Because of the new computer age that seems to have sprouted in Baja, out of curiosity his past December we asked about returning the tourist cards. We were told not to worry about it. "No one does it. Just tear it up and get a new one."

We still hold onto our old ones just in case the day comes when we are applying for another, our info is punched into the computer and it comes up that we never returned the old one.

I think (and I try not to do that too often) that scooting by the tourist card thing as we all have been getting away with, is going to become another part of the "good old days" of baja.

P>*)))>{

fatoldcapt - 5-10-2011 at 08:02 PM

Hello David! I'm sorry I missed meeting you. I was with Ken Cooke on this April's "Baja Grande" Run. Too bad we had to leave a day early due to mechanical problems.

The source of this information was from the Travel Office. However, the reply from them said they had qualified the instructions about "Mailing" the Travel Cards/Permits to them after checking with Immigration.

I contacted the travel office because they look to be acting as a advocate for us tourists.

Their instructions that they will accept the papers if mailed to the Chula Vista, CA office is great news.

It looked to me as if persons entering Mexico and needing a Visa were (are) being entered into a computer data base.

That changes everything. If you check in but not out, I can see all sorts of problems on the horizon. Fines, Fees or even denied entry for those who go back at a later date.

So I'll be mailing them in to the Chula Vista office. I thank them very much for accepting them with a promise that they will be forwarded as required.

It sure is a screwed up mess. I hope they figure out something that works smoother that it does right now. Good Luck to us all.

Aaron

[Edited on 5-11-2011 by fatoldcapt]

Paulina - 5-10-2011 at 08:06 PM

Aaron,

I might suggest getting a proof of mailing when you send it off. Just in case that promise goes by the wayside.

P>*)))><

David K - 5-10-2011 at 08:11 PM

Hi Aaron,

Is this where I say to get a Toyota so your Baja trips aren't cut short? :light:

I hope you had some fun and got to see some special sites and experiences!

I led one of Ken's Jeep groups to Mano Canyon back in 2003 or 4 (I think)... You guys are all good fun people, and as long as a Toyota, Isuzu or other reliable rig is along, you're good!! :bounce:

(PS, I am a former Jeep owner, so I hope you forgive my humor)

fatoldcapt - 5-10-2011 at 08:35 PM

On this last trip we tried everything we could to turn in the Turist Card before we crossed into the US. We stopped into the Immigration Office at Ensenada. It was there we were told that they couldn't accept them there. If they had, the problem would have been solved. We protested until a senior person on the staff came over. I pressed him about the poor options afforded us in trying to follow the rules.

There just wasn't any easy way to return the damn things before crossing back to the US. The thought of parking on the US side and walking over to the Immigration Office then standing in line with 400 others waiting to walk back across the boarder wasn't going to work for us. We'd been driving for 6 hrs. It just wasn't going to happen like they sugested.

Eventually the senior fellow just said "don't worry about it, It doesn't matter".

We left there and stopped by the "Tourisum Office" a block or so up the street. Again we made our plea. After a short debate of our options a senior person there said he would accept the cards. He gave us his card. He wrote the permit numbers on the back and signed it.

I would list the names of these contacts, but, my travel buddy has the business cards.

So yes. It is a screwed up mess. They need to make some other arrangements. They need to make a Drop Off Box at the return boarder crossing. And/or a dedicated mailing address. Right now (or as of a few weeks ago) if you ask them (when you get the permit) if you can mail them back? The answer from Immigration is "NO".

Thanks for listening.
Aaron

fatoldcapt - 5-10-2011 at 08:43 PM

David,

I've had two "Yotas", Pickups and a Sizuki "SideFlip". I will wheel in just about anything I can get to run. But the short wheel base on the Jeep makes it sooo much easier to get around in. I think the jeep (not mine) just didn't want to get muddy. But it probably was vapor lock knid of a thing. Never happened before and once it cooled off and we were going faster than 2 mph, it made it the rest of the way home just fine.
Aaron

Dave - 5-10-2011 at 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fatoldcapt
So yes. It is a screwed up mess. They need to make some other arrangements. They need to make a Drop Off Box at the return boarder crossing. And/or a dedicated mailing address. Right now (or as of a few weeks ago) if you ask them (when you get the permit) if you can mail them back? The answer from Immigration is "NO".

After further consideration...

A drop box wouldn't work. If Mexico requires you turn it in then you would need proof you actually did. Perhaps a web site where you could register that you left country?

In any case, this requirement doesn't make it easy to be a tourist. It's FUBAR, yet typical of Mexican skewed logic. They never think anything through. The country is doomed.

bajamigo - 5-10-2011 at 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fatoldcapt
After a recent trip down South, the matter of what to do with the Toutist Card came up once again. So I e-mailed the Secretary of Tourism Office. I received a reply from "HHiguera@baja.gob.mx"

Good morning Mr. Stephens

Regarding you question, you have to return the form to the Immigration office that is in Mexican Costumes in Tijuana B.C.. What you can do is:

Such a welcoming gesture!

DENNIS - 5-11-2011 at 04:31 AM

This is all total nonsense. Throw them in the round file until Mexico decides it's important enough to do something about the issue. You folks are sitting here trying to redesign Mexico......again. The document is good for six months, then it's dead. It isn't a freakin' passport.

If you had any idea how many foreigners are living in Baja without documents, short and long term, that Mexico could not care less about, you wouldn't be losing sleep over "trying to do the legal thing." It isn't a law although you people are turning the whole thing into a pain in the butt.

Haven't you noticed that Mexico makes no mention of this issue until some paranoid tourist writes or calls and presses for an answer? What would you expect their answer to be? "Oh, just do it your way." I doubt you'll be hearing that. That would be relinquishing full control and there's not a government agency in the world that will do that so you force them into making an executive decision over the phone.

Just put them in a drawer at home or toss them away. Let Mexico make and enforce her own rules. They can do that without your guidance.

Dave - 5-11-2011 at 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
They could design the dropboxes to read a code on the FMM and issue a printed proof of receipt to the departing traveller.

Sounds like the logical thing to do... Which is why it won't be considered.

Dennis wants you to throw them in the trash. I say, if you're not going south of GN...don't even bother.

mtgoat666 - 5-11-2011 at 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Just put them in a drawer at home or toss them away. Let Mexico make and enforce her own rules. They can do that without your guidance.

denny:
and what can they or anyone else do with your guidance?

grizzlyfsh95 - 5-11-2011 at 10:09 AM

Mexico wants them returned because they want to know if you have gone to the bank and paid he fee. It works well w/ the airlines because the fee is paid in the ticket. When trave3ling by car, the visitor is responsible for paying for the visa for any travel below Ensenada.

I am with DENNIS on this one!

Borregoman - 5-11-2011 at 10:22 AM

For what it is worth, I am with Dennis on this one. I have been stopped at many Military checkpoints, asked for car insurance papers, drivers license, US mailing address....NEVER been asked to see a Tourist Card....

DENNIS - 5-11-2011 at 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Borregoman
For what it is worth, I am with Dennis on this one. I have been stopped at many Military checkpoints, asked for car insurance papers, drivers license, US mailing address....NEVER been asked to see a Tourist Card....

Well...I'm not sayin' don't get one. On the contrary....do get one if you qualify.
I'm just sayin' the return issue has been blown way out of proportion here. I mentioned earlier, and I believe it's true, that some folks here have been beaten senseless by over-regulation. If they don't have rules and regs to prompt them through life, they go out of their way looking for them.
Doesn't really reflect an adventurous Baja Spirit, does it.

tourist card

baja1943 - 5-11-2011 at 12:01 PM

Quote:

Well...I'm not sayin' don't get one. On the contrary....do get one if you QUALIFY.

Can anyone guess what the symbol for QUALIFY is in Mexico :lol:

It's all good! :lol:

preston - 5-11-2011 at 03:43 PM

Amusing thread.

Completely useless ... but amusing.

mulegemichael - 5-11-2011 at 04:01 PM

yeah, the times they are a changin'...i have many, many amigos that in decades have never had a tourist card with no repercussions...nothing...i have on occasion forgotten to get my card validated at the bank and upon exit of mexico have had absolutely no problem...i have probably 6 old fmt's in my wallet that were never turned in ....nothing happened....i have yet to see an immigration guy that are checking our tourist visas to have access to a computer...i KNOW this is coming but at this point, i have not experienced it...there appears at this point,that there are no crossover checks.

David K - 5-11-2011 at 04:12 PM

Quote:

I also agree with Dennis on his statement. Sure we want to be 'legal' and do the 'right thing'... but Mexico (government) really doesn't care... If they did, then there would be an easy method to hand the thing back in as you cross north. They like getting the money they have collected since charging for the thing began in mid 2000, but they would rather have more tourism...

Bajahowodd - 5-11-2011 at 04:46 PM

Many informative posts on this thread.

I tend to believe, as has been mentioned before, that Mexico intends to ferret-out those who live full time or long term in Mexico on a tourist visa.

Seems to me that when they start entering this info into the system when you apply, they will ultimately have a way of tracking the 180 days in one year piece of the puzzle.

No doubt that they have not made it convenient to "stop the clock", especially if one blindly mails their cards back.

Personally, I sympathize with the authorities about trying to eliminate "illegals". But, as DK mentioned, they also can be shooting their own foot by seemingly making it more difficult for tourist to go to Mexico.

Bottom line for me is when I see a post on this forum from someone who was denied the FMM form because the computer shows they had already spent 180 days in a given year. Then, people will have to decide for themselves whether to either not visit Mexico, or enter as an illegal and keep their fingers crossed.

By the way, can anyone educate me on just what the law means as to 180 days? Is it in any given calendar year, or is is in the year that begins when you obtain your FMM?

David K - 5-11-2011 at 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Many informative posts on this thread.

I tend to believe, as has been mentioned before, that Mexico intends to ferret-out those who live full time or long term in Mexico on a tourist visa.

Seems to me that when they start entering this info into the system when you apply, they will ultimately have a way of tracking the 180 days in one year piece of the puzzle.

No doubt that they have not made it convenient to "stop the clock", especially if one blindly mails their cards back.

Personally, I sympathize with the authorities about trying to eliminate "illegals". But, as DK mentioned, they also can be shooting their own foot by seemingly making it more difficult for tourist to go to Mexico.

Bottom line for me is when I see a post on this forum from someone who was denied the FMM form because the computer shows they had already spent 180 days in a given year. Then, people will have to decide for themselves whether to either not visit Mexico, or enter as an illegal and keep their fingers crossed.

By the way, can anyone educate me on just what the law means as to 180 days? Is it in any given calendar year, or is is in the year that begins when you obtain your FMM?

Another Nomad posted that he 'confirmed' that there is no 180 days out of a year limit for tourists... as originally stated when the new FMM form was introduced...

That would be a reason why we would need to turn it in at the end of each trip (to stop the 180 day clock during the year), so we could get a full 180 days of Mexico travel.

Of course, that also meant that the $23 dollars were only good for each trip and not the total 180 day period... so we would need to pay every time we go south, even if we just went for 10 days and again for 10 more days a month later.

Such a joke!

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-11-2011 at 05:01 PM

I posted somewhere in here before that I spoke to the Mexican Immigration official at San Ysidro. He told me that if I am caught with an expired tourist visa I could be fined and deported from Mexico. He bluntly told me to just throw it in the trash can and get a new one when I came back to Mexico.

DENNIS - 5-11-2011 at 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Such a joke!

Yeah...More American interpretations of the obvious to serve their own purpose.
Wake up, folks. Do what's required by Mexico....not what you think would make them feel good.

Throw the gawwwwwdammmmm piece of paper in the fireplace until Mexico tells you, ecplicitly, that they require it to be returned.
They have never done that officially.

fatoldcapt - 5-11-2011 at 08:18 PM

On the question of Rules or Laws from the INM I read the following from the copy I still have of a Migratory Form for Foreign Tourist (Tourist Visa/Card/Permit). 2009, From the back: (in part)

Warnings

Tourist

Valid only for 180 days, with no possibility of renewal, starting at the date of entrance
Will be authorized to request an extention until completing 180 days of stay.

Instructions for filling out the Migratory Form

(down a few lines)
The foreigner will retain the Exit Section of the migratory form authorized by the Migratory Authority and will have to hand it in to that Authority upon leaving the country.

Lastly, at the bottom of the back:

Keep this in a safe place as it will be requested when you leave the country.
If you lose this immigration form, you will have to pay a replacement fee.

I have never turned in a Tourist Visa except on this last trip in April. Only then because they entered the information in a computer when that free 7 day Visa was issued in Mexicali.

So I started this line of discussion mainly to post information about the Tourist Office saying we could mail the forms to their PO Box in Chula Vista, CA. That is a convenient option for me.

2.- You can send your immigration form to our State Secretariat of Tourism P.O. Box #2448 Chula Vista Ca. Zip. 91912, and we happily can deliver it to Immigration ( We call the Immigration office and they told us that you don't have to return it personally).

I wish to god the authority in place would make the whole matter more realistic. But we are talking about a Foreign Government. We can’t even get our’s to do things that make sense. Good Luck to us all!

Aaron

FMM

BAnn - 5-11-2011 at 10:27 PM

Our fm3 was due in May of last year. We waited for the goverment to figure out the new regs, we waited a month and the lady that was doing our papper work still did not know how to renew the fm3. So we went back north with out the new fm3. Checked back with her when we came back to San Felipe last fall, now she says we have to pay a fine of $800.00. Is there a way to go around the fine?

BajaBlanca - 5-11-2011 at 10:54 PM

I don't think you can get around it but for sure get another person to do your paperwork. that is just ridiculous that she didnt renew it in time ...