BajaNomad

Rent 4x4 or buy in Cali or Baja??

Bajayan - 5-14-2011 at 09:09 AM

Hi, we're planning a trip down in June and want to use a 4x4 so we can see a lot more than the good roads allow... but we don't have one.

Any ideas? We we want to go down with for a month or a month and a half. Is there a good place we can rent a 4x4 from near the border that's reasonable? Is a cheap older one from the 90s bought here and taken down better?

Any other ideas, thoughts or advice? (options, alternatives, insurance, coming and going, safety, anything else?)

Thanks!

mtgoat666 - 5-14-2011 at 09:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajayan
Hi, we're planning a trip down in June and want to use a 4x4 so we can see a lot more than the good roads allow... but we don't have one.

Any ideas? We we want to go down with for a month or a month and a half. Is there a good place we can rent a 4x4 from near the border that's reasonable? Is a cheap older one from the 90s bought here and taken down better?

Any other ideas, thoughts or advice? (options, alternatives, insurance, coming and going, safety, anything else?)

Thanks!


rental 4x4s are expensive.

you can go most anywhere with a 2wd vehicle if moderate clearance and good tires

[Edited on 5-14-2011 by mtgoat666]

David K - 5-14-2011 at 09:16 AM

Not cheap, but you can rent a 4WD Jeep, Toyota 4Runner or other vehicle for all of Baja, in the San Diego area: http://www.bajacar.com/

Do you have some ideas of places you want to visit where you think you will need 4WD? Often, deep sand is the barrier and by deflating the tires you can pass... just have a pump to re-inflate them!

[Edited on 5-14-2011 by David K]

Bajayan - 5-14-2011 at 09:49 AM

Well I'd love to go up and down the two coasts as much as possible, and the highway doesn't really cooperate most of the way. So the stretches of coast south of El Rosaria, north and south of Bahia de los Angeles, Bahia Tortugas and south past laguna San Ignacio, and visits to spots like Bahia Agua Verde are the types of travel I have in mind. If most of this is possible without 4x4 that would certainly make this much easier... what do you think??

I'll check out bajacar right now, thanks!

Curt63 - 5-14-2011 at 09:50 AM

I would suggest a Toyota 4Runner 4x4 from the 90's. Get one with good offroad tires and have a mechanic check it out. You will probably want AC. Roof racks are handy.

Craigslist is a great source. Don't buy a salvage title vehicle.

Dont go too cheap. $4000 will buy a decent one(early 90's). If you're going to keep it, I would recommend '96 and newer (larger engine and no head gasket issues)

These vehicles are everywhere in Baja so there will be parts around (new and junk) and mechanics know them very well.

Caveat Emptor!

David K - 5-14-2011 at 09:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Curt63
I would suggest a Toyota 4Runner 4x4 from the 90's. Get one with good offroad tires and have a mechanic check it out. You will probably want AC. Roof racks are handy.

Craigslist is a great source. Don't buy a salvage title vehicle.

Dont go too cheap. $4000 will buy a decent one(early 90's). If you're going to keep it, I would recommend '96 and newer (larger engine and no head gasket issues)

These vehicles are everywhere in Baja so there will be parts around (new and junk) and mechanics know them very well.

Caveat Emptor!


AGREE!

While 4WD is great insurance, most places you will be able to get to if you have GOOD tires, ground clearance, and an air pump that clips onto the battery directly (they are much faster)... because lowering the air pressure to 10-15 psi will get you through most anything, including deep beach or arroyo sand.

Bajayan - 5-14-2011 at 10:01 AM

Thanks a lot for the tips - we've done some Craigslist hunting, but may have to raise our budget a bit.

I was on a 2 week road trip up and down baja sur 4 years ago, and remember a few spots where the bouldery/rocky road made 4x4 seem indispensable. Two spots on the La Paz-Evaristo-Hwy 1 road, and the road down to Bahia Agua Verde. If these types of things could be negotiated with lowered tires and good clearance, that could make life much easier.

TMW - 5-14-2011 at 11:15 AM

Everywhere you mentioned is OK for 2 wheel drive, just watch the sand. Never stop in sand unless going down hill.

Bajatripper - 5-14-2011 at 03:54 PM

Having gotten use to having 4WD and then losing it when I inadvertantly disconnected a tiny hose under the fuse box while changing plug wires, I can attest to how easy it is to get careless without 4WD. I got mildly stuck a couple of times on a trip up to see the whales recently before I figured out why I didn't have it.

While you can get to most places in Baja without 4WD (provided you pay attention, air down, carry a pump, etc.), having it available in a pinch is a real nice option. I wouldn't skimp on it if I could help it. I've been up that San Evaristo road several times and I know it can be traveled without 4WD, ranchers do it every day. But 4WD low is nice to have going up the long grade up into the sierra, it allows one to crawl over a couple of patches of nasty rocks instead of gunning the engine and bouncing over them.

I'd go with buying a used one in good shape. Don't know how much a month's worth of rental for a new one would be, but it can't be a whole lot cheaper than a decent 1990s 4WD, and at the end of your trip, you'll have it to recoup some of your expenses--or you can hold on to it for those future Baja trips.

Maderita - 5-14-2011 at 04:04 PM

I'm going to play "devil's advocate" about the 2 wheel drive advice given above.
2WD "might" get you through some short sandy sections, such as, crossing an arroyo. It will not get you far on a long beach or driving along an unpacked sandy arroyo, unless equipped with oversize tires, limited slip or locking differential, all tires aired down to 10psi, and with superior offroad driving skills/judgment.
Lacking those things, what it will get you is - stuck. Unless you have an accompanying 4x4 to pull you out, you are asking for a miserable problem. You didn't mention a group, so I presiume this is a solo trip. There is no good time to get stuck in remote areas, but June/July could have fatal consequences in the heat.
4WD is good insurance, as DK mentioned. On the other hand, having 4WD adds "courage" to take more difficult and remote routes. Then when you get the 4WD stuck, then you are "really stuck", like twice as bad, and further from help. Having 4WD is only "good insurance" on a solo trip when the driver uses conservative judgment in knowing when to retreat.

David K - 5-14-2011 at 09:51 PM

Maderita is right and practice makes perfect...

I was lucky to have grown up in the front seat of a Jeep driving all over Baja in the 1960's, and having a dune buggy at 15 and my own Jeep at 17... and other 4WDs since...

Lowering air pressure (a lot) will do amazing things, even for a 2WD vehicle in sand. Just have a gauge and a pump, so you know what the pressure is and can refill when out of sand.

Ken Cooke - 5-14-2011 at 10:09 PM

Even in 2WD, a vehicle just feet from the pavement can stuck in soft sand. It's best to exercise good judgement, especially when traveling alone.

Here is what happened in San Felipe recently...




Bajayan - 5-14-2011 at 10:40 PM

It sounds like I'll be making every effort to take a 4x4. I have some experience, but sand is something I've never dealt with in a 2wd, so better not to learn on a trip like this without others around to advise/tow! It also looks like we just have to find something to buy, since the quote for a rental was over $3,000 for a month... unless a great deal on a rental turns up.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts - it's helping a lot. We're happy to hear anything else you think may be helpful.

Ken Cooke - 5-14-2011 at 10:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajayan
It sounds like I'll be making every effort to take a 4x4. I have some experience, but sand is something I've never dealt with in a 2wd, so better not to learn on a trip like this without others around to advise/tow! It also looks like we just have to find something to buy, since the quote for a rental was over $3,000 for a month... unless a great deal on a rental turns up.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts - it's helping a lot. We're happy to hear anything else you think may be helpful.


Why don't you just arrive in Tijuana and go shop around for a vehicle? Call ahead to some mechanicos to see if they know of any good offers? A good, reliable 4WD club is the Zopilotos. THey are on Facebook. Here's the addy: http://www.facebook.com/#!/home.php?sk=group_108655042519128

[Edited on 5-15-2011 by BajaNomad]

mtgoat666 - 5-14-2011 at 11:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajayan
It sounds like I'll be making every effort to take a 4x4. I have some experience, but sand is something I've never dealt with in a 2wd, so better not to learn on a trip like this without others around to advise/tow! It also looks like we just have to find something to buy, since the quote for a rental was over $3,000 for a month... unless a great deal on a rental turns up.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts - it's helping a lot. We're happy to hear anything else you think may be helpful.


you really don't need 4wd.
you can reach all the sites you'll want to see in the car you currently own.
the locals almost all use 2wd, there are traveled roads to everything you will visit.
save your money for beer and food, and take the 2wd you already own.

Ken Cooke - 5-14-2011 at 11:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666

you really don't need 4wd.
you can reach all the sites you'll want to see in the car you currently own.
the locals almost all use 2wd, there are traveled roads to everything you will visit.
save your money for beer and food, and take the 2wd you already own.


I believe that 4WD will help you travel to places that are more remote w/o fear of getting stuck. It's just a better idea to travel w/a friend who also has 4WD in case a situation arises.

mtgoat666 - 5-14-2011 at 11:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Cooke
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666

you really don't need 4wd.
you can reach all the sites you'll want to see in the car you currently own.
the locals almost all use 2wd, there are traveled roads to everything you will visit.
save your money for beer and food, and take the 2wd you already own.


I believe that 4WD will help you travel to places that are more remote w/o fear of getting stuck. It's just a better idea to travel w/a friend who also has 4WD in case a situation arises.


bs.

most beaches worth visiting have a passable road suitable for 2wd.

if you are not obese you can park at end of drivable road and walk.

I'm talkin' about 4WD country!

Ken Cooke - 5-14-2011 at 11:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Cooke
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666

you really don't need 4wd.
you can reach all the sites you'll want to see in the car you currently own.
the locals almost all use 2wd, there are traveled roads to everything you will visit.
save your money for beer and food, and take the 2wd you already own.


I believe that 4WD will help you travel to places that are more remote w/o fear of getting stuck. It's just a better idea to travel w/a friend who also has 4WD in case a situation arises.


bs.

most beaches worth visiting have a passable road suitable for 2wd.

if you are not obese you can park at end of drivable road and walk.

On my last trip across Baja, I wasn't just at the beach.

David K's Shell Island




La Turquesa Mine (near Gonzaga Bay)


Gonzaga Bay (from the Mission Santa Maria de los Angeles 4WD Road)




To see these Blue Fan Palms of Baja, you had better have 4WD! :!:


Can you tell the difference?

Ken Cooke - 5-15-2011 at 12:01 AM

2WD Beach


4WD Beach


2WD Road (stuck)


4WD Road (stuck stuck, almost)

mtgoat666 - 5-15-2011 at 07:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Cooke
blah, blah


the OP is not seeking 4wd to go to those examples, ken.

Ken Cooke - 5-15-2011 at 07:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajayan
Hi, we're planning a trip down in June and want to use a 4x4 so we can see a lot more than the good roads allow... but we don't have one.

Any ideas?


www.baja4x4.org
http://www.baja4x4.org/foro/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17583

JEEP WRANGLER YJ AUTOMATICO MODELO 1989 4X4


MOTOR 4.2 LITROS REPARADO
DIFERENCIALES DANA 44. PASOS 4.88 SOLDADOS CANDADOS WARN DIFERENCIAL DELANTERO SUSPENSION OVER AXLES (SOA)
HIGH STEERING
LLANTAS MILITARES WRANGLER 37X12.5R16.5 WINCH RANSEY 800 LIBRAS
SLIP YOKE ELIMINATOR (SYE)
HIGH LIFT ORIGINAL
BARRA DE LUCES Y BOCINAS
CB COBRA 148
STEREO PIONEER
ASIENTOS DE TJ
RACK INTERIOR
CINTURONES SEGURIDAD 5 PUNTOS
BASES PARA FAROS DE NIEBLA
LED'S POSTERIORES
JERRY CAN GASOLINA
CONTENEDOR PARA AGUA
EXTINGUIDOR
ALARMA

CELULAR 664 406-3778 NEXTEL 152*1028610*2
DOCUMENTACION EN REGLA. PLACAS 2011
SIN NINGUN PROBLEMA TECNICO
$ 4,500 USD FIJOS

Jeep Cherokee $900 USD

Ken Cooke - 5-15-2011 at 07:53 AM

http://www.baja4x4.org/foro/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17541

Pink Geo Tracker $2500 USD

Ken Cooke - 5-15-2011 at 07:55 AM

http://www.baja4x4.org/foro/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17572

Muy buenos dias a todos:

Vendo mi tracker:

1.6L 8valvulas
Transmision estandard
4X4
es un GAS SAVER!!!
Convertible.
lift de 3inch
Diferencial delantero con welded locker.
Rines chilos (algo bien)

http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/hh30 ... =slideshow

lo entrego con sus placas dadas de baja.
Se escuchan Ofertas serias en Efectivo


Dodge Ram $1950.00 USD [Tijuana]

Ken Cooke - 5-15-2011 at 07:59 AM

http://www.baja4x4.org/foro/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17543

RAM CHARGER 1500
AŅO 1995, AUTOMATICA, 8 CILINDROS
LLANTAS NUEVAS, PLACAS AL CORRIENTE, TITULO LIMPIO
$1950 DLL A TRATAR


choyero - 5-15-2011 at 07:59 AM

Ken,

Unless they are a residents of Mexico. They cannot register a mexican vehicle. They could buy it, but they need a Mexican Drivers license to register it, and to get a mexican license, you need a FM3/2/1.

They also need a mexican drivers license to drive it.

It would be much wiser to buy a 4x4 locally and then drive it around for awhile to make sure everything works. Then address all the problem areas before heading to baja.

just my .02.



[Edited on 5-15-2011 by choyero]

wilderone - 5-15-2011 at 08:13 AM

More important than 4x4 is excellent tires (all terrain or better tread), and some clearance - and lots of common sense and a shovel. I went places in an '88 Hyundai Excel that would astound you! And I've shoveled out of sand berms that OTHER people drove over and got stuck on because they thought they were invincible with their 4x4.

Curt63 - 5-15-2011 at 09:15 AM

J Just
E Empty
E Every
P Pocket

rhintransit - 5-15-2011 at 09:16 AM

when a friend rented a car in Mexico last year the fine print on their paperwork said that they were not permitted to take the vehicle off "pavement' (almost an impossibility as we know even 'on' most paved roads around). this was a regular 2wd basic car.
does anyone know if the rental companies 'cover' themselves this way when they rent their 4x4s?

[Edited on 5-15-2011 by rhintransit]

But, they are so cool!

Ken Cooke - 5-15-2011 at 08:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Curt63
J Just
E Empty
E Every
P Pocket








Ken Cooke - 5-15-2011 at 08:32 PM

You might want to buy via Trucktrader online in the San Diego area so that you can insure the vehicle and drive it w/o insurance problems. Also, I would purchase a 6 month insurance policy versus a daily policy to keep the prices down. I posted info for some Tijuana-area vehicles, but was unaware that you need to have a Mexican drivers license to drive a vehicle with Mexican plates. My bad...

Curt63 - 5-15-2011 at 09:11 PM

Ken, I agree totally. I'm just sour grapes cause I cant afford any more toys. I would have a Jeep, a buggy, a Razor a hauler etc etc etc if I could, but.............

I go crawling with the Jeep boys a couple times per year and really enjoy it. But honestly, these guys have $$$invested and break stuff every trip for more $$$. That's where I learned that saying from.

On my budget, a Tundra and a quad give me plenty o good times!

To be honest, one of my favorite things to do in life is coastal/ beach exploring in central Baja on a quad.

Ken Cooke - 5-15-2011 at 09:25 PM

If you have a great time in a Tundra and a quad, there should be no appologies. I have sunk thousands into my '03 Rubicon in both payments and modifications. I would love one with 4 doors, but I doubt I can afford one. If I broke my Rubicon on a trail this weekend, I would not have a ride to work on Monday.

Bajatripper - 5-16-2011 at 11:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by choyero
Ken,

Unless they are a residents of Mexico. They cannot register a mexican vehicle. They could buy it, but they need a Mexican Drivers license to register it, and to get a mexican license, you need a FM3/2/1.

They also need a mexican drivers license to drive it.

It would be much wiser to buy a 4x4 locally and then drive it around for awhile to make sure everything works. Then address all the problem areas before heading to baja.

just my .02.



[Edited on 5-15-2011 by choyero]


Excellent point, Choyero, and opportune that you mentioned this "minor detail." It could have really sucked for the person in question to have already parted with the money before finding this out.

Bajatripper - 5-16-2011 at 11:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by wilderone
I went places in an '88 Hyundai Excel that would astound you! And I've shoveled out of sand berms that OTHER people drove over and got stuck on because they thought they were invincible with their 4x4.


Really? You took your '88 Hyundai Excel places where 4X4s feared to tread? And you knew that the vehicles that got stuck in those sand berms were 4X4s how? Their tracks in the sand revealed that?

Although I know two-wheel drive passenger cars can go many places (my family and I traveled the pre-pavement Baja road in a '65 Mustang when I was a teenager), let's keep a little reality in the topic, please. At no point did I ever make the connection that the Mustang could have kept up with the 4X4s in the rough stuff. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous, especially on a forum that is dedicated to Baja, where most members know a bit about the subject.

David K - 5-16-2011 at 11:57 AM

Relax Steve, Cindi is smart... the Hyundai is front wheel drive, and that is half the battle... the rest is smart driving (often lacking with those who have 4WDs) and finally air pressure (in sand)!

805gregg - 5-16-2011 at 07:00 PM

You don't need 4x4 I went to Baja for about 40 years without it, I got stuck once. 4x4 just means you get stuck worse.

I would Just Rent One..

R2LUJAN - 5-16-2011 at 10:02 PM

I would Just Rent One unless you need an extra Car...
If you rent for one month you get one week for free aprox., get full coverage and forget all the worrys....

i rented a suburban for 2 months got a very good deal!!!

will send you info tomorrow or phone numbers.

see for your self... if not buy Toyota...

Bobby.

[Edited on 5-17-2011 by R2LUJAN]

David K - 5-16-2011 at 10:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 805gregg
You don't need 4x4 I went to Baja for about 40 years without it, I got stuck once. 4x4 just means you get stuck worse.



Now that is just silly... of course it could be true if you don't know how to drive off road (or let air out of your tires)!

40 years ago was 1971... and pavement ended in Colonet southbound and Constitucion northbound from La Paz.

Of course grading was safe for 2WD, so you could get maybe to El Rosario southbound and Santa Rosalia northbound...

But, there is so much more to Baja than paved or graded roads! Sure plenty of 2WDs traveled the peninsula, with careful driving and dry weather... but the side roads and far away beaches often were only reached with 4WD.

Bajayan - 5-16-2011 at 10:23 PM

So much food for thought! We're still hunting for a solid 4x4 while at the same time considering just taking down our current 2wd car and accepting its limitations.

Thanks for the tip on 6 mo insurance as well, that was going to be my next question! :-)

choyero - 5-17-2011 at 06:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K

Now that is just silly... of course it could be true if you don't know how to drive off road (or let air out of your tires)!

But, there is so much more to Baja than paved or graded roads! Sure plenty of 2WDs traveled the peninsula, with careful driving and dry weather... but the side roads and far away beaches often were only reached with 4WD.



Aren't most of the desert race vehicles, Baja 1000 and the numerous other desert races 2wd? You can go a lot of places in a 2wd, granted a rental 2wd car is a far cry from a race buggy/trophy truck!

David K - 5-17-2011 at 08:20 AM

Yes, racing as fast as you can with super suspension and super tires will get you over lots of stuff... But, I kind of think the OP wants to drive a normal pace to do a self tour of Baja sites... and 4WD is a must if you are going it alone or don't want the hassle of getting unstuck.

Naturally, if the 4WD rental (at $100+ a day) is out of your league, then get a 2WD with ground clearance and see what you can, but don't drive where there is any question.

wilderone - 5-17-2011 at 08:40 AM

"Really? You took your '88 Hyundai Excel places where 4X4s feared to tread? And you knew that the vehicles that got stuck in those sand berms were 4X4s how? Their tracks in the sand revealed that?

Although I know two-wheel drive passenger cars can go many places (my family and I traveled the pre-pavement Baja road in a '65 Mustang when I was a teenager), let's keep a little reality in the topic, please. At no point did I ever make the connection that the Mustang could have kept up with the 4X4s in the rough stuff. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous, especially on a forum that is dedicated to Baja, where most members know a bit about the subject."

Sheesh - have another cup of coffee!! I never said I took my Hyundai to places where 4x4s fear to tread. I knew those vehicles that I helped shovel out of sand berms were 4WD because I was the passenger in these cars and helped shovel out or flagged down someone to pull us out. I guess if Bajayan wants to do donuts through fragile wetlands like Ken, or needs to massage his "ego" with 4WD and try to scale boulders and walk on water with it, then, hey, go for it - be a man.
And that's exactly the crux of the dilemma -- don't acquire a false sense of security because you think your 4WD gives you super-hero powers. Taking the "road not taken" too far might be disastrous to your vehicle in other ways, and if you're alone to contend with the flat tire, punctured gas tank, overheating, broken shocks, good luck to you and your hapless passengers.
PS: But you made it down pre-Mex. 1 Baja in a '65 Mustang. So did my neighbor in his Model A - cuz it had some clearance!

mtgoat666 - 5-17-2011 at 08:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by wilderone
"Really? You took your '88 Hyundai Excel places where 4X4s feared to tread? And you knew that the vehicles that got stuck in those sand berms were 4X4s how? Their tracks in the sand revealed that?

Although I know two-wheel drive passenger cars can go many places (my family and I traveled the pre-pavement Baja road in a '65 Mustang when I was a teenager), let's keep a little reality in the topic, please. At no point did I ever make the connection that the Mustang could have kept up with the 4X4s in the rough stuff. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous, especially on a forum that is dedicated to Baja, where most members know a bit about the subject."

Sheesh - have another cup of coffee!! I never said I took my Hyundai to places where 4x4s fear to tread. I knew those vehicles that I helped shovel out of sand berms were 4WD because I was the passenger in these cars and helped shovel out or flagged down someone to pull us out. I guess if Bajayan wants to do donuts through fragile wetlands like Ken, or needs to massage his "ego" with 4WD and try to scale boulders and walk on water with it, then, hey, go for it - be a man.
And that's exactly the crux of the dilemma -- don't acquire a false sense of security because you think your 4WD gives you super-hero powers. Taking the "road not taken" too far might be disastrous to your vehicle in other ways, and if you're alone to contend with the flat tire, punctured gas tank, overheating, broken shocks, good luck to you and your hapless passengers.
PS: But you made it down pre-Mex. 1 Baja in a '65 Mustang. So did my neighbor in his Model A - cuz it had some clearance!


the typical stock 4x4 couldn't compete against my 74 vw bug or 1972 saab wagon. i could have taken either of those cars anywhere DK can take his toyota.
rock crawling and mud-bogging are acts of environmental degradation, typically done by people with little or no respect for environment.
if the road is only passable by 4x4, it is probably best to not travel it. let the environment recover, let the road scar return to natural state, and walk and do your heart/lungs a favor

Maderita - 5-17-2011 at 01:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
the typical stock 4x4 couldn't compete against my 74 vw bug or 1972 saab wagon. i could have taken either of those cars anywhere DK can take his toyota.


If this isn't a troll, then I'm laughing. Please tell us that you don't believe your own writing!

[Edited on 5-17-2011 by Maderita]

i believe!

mtgoat666 - 5-17-2011 at 04:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Maderita
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
the typical stock 4x4 couldn't compete against my 74 vw bug or 1972 saab wagon. i could have taken either of those cars anywhere DK can take his toyota.


If this isn't a troll, then I'm laughing. Please tell us that you don't believe your own writing!

[Edited on 5-17-2011 by Maderita]


a light weight 2wd can drive more places than a stock 4wd. most stock 4wds are heavy, and have low to medium clearance.
i can take a light weight VW bug farther on softer sand than dk can drive his toyota tacoma. a light weight car with good tires can drive the washboard way faster than dk can drive his tank. have you ever off-roaded an old bug?

the old 1960s vintage saabs were great rally cars, really light weight, and great approach/takeoff angles. they were very light front wheel drives with great clearance, short wheel base and narrow. they could go anywhere. like the bugs, if they got stuck, they were so light weight that two guys could push them out without breaking a sweat.

give me a 1970s vintage bug with good tall tires and i will beat your stock 4wd toyota any day.



\

Bajatripper - 5-17-2011 at 04:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wilderonePS: But you made it down pre-Mex. 1 Baja in a '65 Mustang. So did my neighbor in his Model A - cuz it had some clearance!


That Mustang, unfortunately, didn't have the clearance of a Model A. By the end of our trip, the car's gas tank had to have at least a quarter of a tank of gas before the fuel pump would suck anything but fumes and sections of the floor were a couple of inches closer to our chins.

I do agree that most of today's trips are also doable in 2wd, it's just that one can relax more in a 4wd. Of course, if a person is stupid enough, the most competent 4wd won't save him/her from themselves.

Bajatripper - 5-17-2011 at 04:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666

give me a 1970s vintage bug with good tall tires and i will beat your stock 4wd toyota any day.


So when are you and David K going to run out to the Santa Maria Mission? I'd love to see you take that stock bug out there.

Curt63 - 5-17-2011 at 04:53 PM

Sorry Goat. Im calling BS (unless you're ready to back it up)

David K - 5-17-2011 at 05:37 PM

What goat doesn't understand is I have owned a 'lightweight VW powered bug' and did drive it to Gonzaga Bay in 1974 and '75 on the old, old "4WD only road"... and it did fine.

I also had a 'lightweight' front wheel to 4WD Subaru wagon (3 of them) before my Tacoma.

So, I am not all into 'horsepower, heavy weight four wheeling' as he states.

The facts are the Tacoma is the SMALLER truck from Toyota, and I need a truck for my work and play... Just that size, not bigger. The V-6 is plenty powerful enough, I don't need a V-8 for what I do. I can do with ONE vehicle and not need two (saving earth's natural resources)!

The VW bug or the Saab front wheel drive (or my Subaru wagons) could NOT get to (or back from) Mision Santa Maria... one of my special Baja places I don't get tired of visiting... and I have only been there 4 times now.

This thread is about renting a 4WD for visiting Baja with peace-of-mind, and that is an excellent reason. HOWEVER, goat is correct in that (with good driving skills, good tires, and more than a few inches of ground clearance) a 2WD vehicle will get you almost anywhere you want to go, almost!

bajatravelergeorge - 5-17-2011 at 06:14 PM

I started off exploring Baja with 2WD vehicles and I did just fine, thank you, with a tire pump and gauge. I planned my trips that way. Traveled that way for several years. The few times I did get stuck, I was able to dig myself out or find help. Yep, I carried shovels, screen, boards, etc. When I started to run out of 2WD places to visit, I upgraded to 4WD and was able to get to many places not accessible to 2WD. Now I enjoy having 4WD and wouldn't go back to 2WD. Having four wheel drive has saved my ass a more than a few times.

No road, no problem!

Ken Cooke - 5-17-2011 at 06:36 PM

NOT A 2WD ROAD



tax deductable donations

mtgoat666 - 5-17-2011 at 06:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Cooke
NOT A 2WD ROAD





some of us tread lightly. some of us don't.

When i see people tearing up land like that I send another $20 to Sierra Club! :bounce:

David K - 5-17-2011 at 06:46 PM

That last photo looks like Santa Maria Canyon where it drops down to the desert near Gonzaga Bay!

Bajatripper - 5-17-2011 at 08:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajatravelergeorge
I started off exploring Baja with 2WD vehicles and I did just fine, thank you, with a tire pump and gauge. I planned my trips that way. Traveled that way for several years. The few times I did get stuck, I was able to dig myself out or find help. Yep, I carried shovels, screen, boards, etc. When I started to run out of 2WD places to visit, I upgraded to 4WD and was able to get to many places not accessible to 2WD. Now I enjoy having 4WD and wouldn't go back to 2WD. Having four wheel drive has saved my burro a more than a few times.


Well said, George. I think this is probably the progression from 2-to-4wd of many of us, as David K points out, too. Sure, one can get by without it, but once you get it, you will likely be reluctant to give it up.

Ken Cooke - 5-17-2011 at 08:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
That last photo looks like Santa Maria Canyon where it drops down to the desert near Gonzaga Bay!


You can't go much further without having to skirt around some large granite pools. This is where hiking becomes the preferred method of travel.

Bajayan - 6-11-2011 at 09:18 AM

So, speaking of Gonzago Bay, I would really like to go, but didn't end up getting a 4x4. So, any thoughts on going via Hwy 1 with a regular car? Would it be crazy? On the maps it shows as an "improved" road, but it sounds from the post above that it may not be improved enough for me...

David K - 6-11-2011 at 09:25 AM

You don't need 4WD to go to Gonzaga Bay from either direction. You would be best going in a vehicle this is not low to the ground and has good tires (this is true for any graded dirt road in Baja).

To Rancho Grande/ Alfonsina's road:
From the north, it is about 19 unpaved miles. From the south, it is 36 unpaved miles.

Bajayan - 6-11-2011 at 09:39 AM

Hmm, the clearance could certainly be better, but the tires are great...

Thanks for the quick reply!

chippy - 6-11-2011 at 10:12 AM

Back in the 70s I traveled to some of the most remote spots in Baja in a VW. But it was a Baja Bug with a cut and turned front end and reindexed rear torsion bars. It had miles of clearance.You would have never made it in a stock bug. Now I like my air conditioned 4wd diesel Suburban. Its much more civilized.