BajaNomad

Calderon won't make his tourism goal: 2011 numbers 9% lower than the same period in 2010.

Woooosh - 6-26-2011 at 11:56 AM

http://www.frontera.info/EdicionEnLinea/Notas/Nacional/26062...

"9% lower than the same period in 2010... One of the reasons international tourism has stopped coming is the perception of insecurity."

wessongroup - 6-26-2011 at 12:21 PM

Think it has a lot more to do with money...

The wife told me the other day when checking out at Walmart... the lady behind her was taking things out of her cart... they start talking and the lady says "we just have to cut back on how much we spend"...

And the amount of sq./Ft of commercial is like HUGE ... the malls are dead, as are the strip malls... many of the tenants can't make it go... if ya ain't got folks coming in spending money...

My neighbor, who runs is own set of double for hauling rock ... dirt ... etc hasn't worked in over two years.. another retired early as there was no work, used to rehab commercial buildings all over ... high end company out of Beverly Hills ... no work.. many other examples of American workers without jobs.. hence no money for vacations... down to Mexico... or many, many other places

When in Prescott AZ, about a month ago, we met more foreign folks that US .. a group motorcycle tour from Germany, about 25 people.. another group from England.. also doing the motorcycle tour of the Southwest ....

[Edited on 6-26-2011 by wessongroup]

Marc - 6-26-2011 at 05:06 PM

Same everywhere. Check out Palm Springs and the neighborhood; Rancho Mirage, Palm Desert, etc. Empty malls and stores. Depressing.

Bajahowodd - 6-26-2011 at 05:35 PM

"When in Prescott AZ, about a month ago, we met more foreign folks that US .. a group motorcycle tour from Germany, about 25 people.. another group from England.. also doing the motorcycle tour of the Southwest ...."

Think you kinda made the point against your original supposition. It's not so much money as it is security. The Germans were here, across the pond. But, they weren't in Mexico. Just sayin'.

bajalou - 6-26-2011 at 05:38 PM

Europeans flood that part of the southwest every summer.

Woooosh - 6-26-2011 at 08:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajalou
Europeans flood that part of the southwest every summer.

yeah, like they'll feel secure spending their Euro's right now. ;) People outside of Mexico see and feel the tough economic times faced everywhere by almost everyone. For some reason Mexico feels like they are being unfairly picked on and haven't at all accepted there has been a true economic shift. Shift to what... don't really know yet because all the economies are truly co-dependent. It is too bad the major cruise lines bailed out of some ports of Mexico. Mexico could blame them instead of the press, but Mexicans are used to conspiracy theories, not economic ones.

[Edited on 6-27-2011 by Woooosh]

b1 - 6-26-2011 at 08:59 PM

We just spent the better part of a week with the grandkids in Yellowstone and had we spoke German, we would have understood a whole lot of folks. b1

Eli - 6-27-2011 at 07:21 AM

I remember years ago when the Zapatistas raised cane in Chiapas, there were all kinds of warnings and the tourist avoided the place. Oaxaca at that time was a tourist haven.
Than, Oaxaca had it's issues with APPO a few year back, and the tourist abandoned Oaxaca. I happened to spend a month in San Cristobal de Las Casa's that summer and the tourist had all flocked back to Chiapas. There were little Zapatista dolls and souvenirs every where. People were fascinated with what had happened during the uprising and it had become a big tourist attraction.
Although Oaxaca is yet to completely recover from 2006, still last summer there were more tourist than I have seen since before the APPO show.
I believe economy permitting someday the tourist will return in Mexico. It will most likely be after the Drug wars settle down.

Meanwhile, I guess people can go visit Vietnam, I understand that has become a major tourist attraction. Back in the 60's & 70's. who would have thought?

EdZeranski - 6-28-2011 at 08:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
"9% lower than the same period in 2010... One of the reasons international tourism has stopped coming is the perception of insecurity."


When I did my outbrief in Bagdad, yep that Bagdad, I told the folks I had a drive/fishing trip down Baja planned when I got back to San Diego. The Iraqis and Americans were both surprised and told me they thought Mexico was too dangerous. Even in Bagdad the news of 'dangerous Mexico' is pretty common and accepted.

EdZ KG6UTS
OB, Borrego and Baja

BajaBlanca - 6-28-2011 at 10:07 AM

yes, Ed, i remember you telling us that story and it is indeed amazing that in IRAQ, they consider Baja dangerous !!!! Just incredible how much damage those druglords are causing ..... they are relatively in such a small part of such a huge country, but boy, the repercussions are just astounding. Heck ... the Iraquis are afraid !!

jenny.navarrette - 6-28-2011 at 10:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaBlanca
yes, Ed, i remember you telling us that story and it is indeed amazing that in IRAQ, they consider Baja dangerous !!!! Just incredible how much damage those druglords are causing ..... they are relatively in such a small part of such a huge country, but boy, the repercussions are just astounding. Heck ... the Iraquis are afraid !!


Actually, Blanca, they are everywhere in the country. It is the second largest industry and source of revenues in Mexico. It is a very organized activity designed to move, transport and sell drugs on the streets of every town in Mexico. Every town has somebody in the drug trade in charge of the street peddlers, even every town in Baja. Even in La Bocana. You just don't move in those circles so you are unaware of what is going on.

Woooosh - 6-28-2011 at 11:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jenny.navarrette
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaBlanca
yes, Ed, i remember you telling us that story and it is indeed amazing that in IRAQ, they consider Baja dangerous !!!! Just incredible how much damage those druglords are causing ..... they are relatively in such a small part of such a huge country, but boy, the repercussions are just astounding. Heck ... the Iraquis are afraid !!


Actually, Blanca, they are everywhere in the country. It is the second largest industry and source of revenues in Mexico. It is a very organized activity designed to move, transport and sell drugs on the streets of every town in Mexico. Every town has somebody in the drug trade in charge of the street peddlers, even every town in Baja. Even in La Bocana. You just don't move in those circles so you are unaware of what is going on.

"You just don't move in those circles so you are unaware of what is going on"... and that tenuous separation is the only thing keeping Mexico from going completely down the tubes. Just today: Police Chief near Monterrey killed in his office, 80 migrants hauled off trains by the Zetas for execution like the N-zis did (well- the N-zis didn't make them fight each other to the death in Gladiator battles like the Zetas do), and yet another video of TJ police torturing a man (suffocating him with a plastic bag). It is hard to imagine how Mexico can get control of all this twisted violence.

JoeJustJoe - 6-28-2011 at 11:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by EdZeranski
Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
"9% lower than the same period in 2010... One of the reasons international tourism has stopped coming is the perception of insecurity."


When I did my outbrief in Bagdad, yep that Bagdad, I told the folks I had a drive/fishing trip down Baja planned when I got back to San Diego. The Iraqis and Americans were both surprised and told me they thought Mexico was too dangerous. Even in Bagdad the news of 'dangerous Mexico' is pretty common and accepted.

EdZ KG6UTS
OB, Borrego and Baja


I could relate to your story Ed. I have a very good friend who is an Iraq Chaldean( Christian non-Muslim) who use to car pool with me at times. He use to be scared of Tijuana, and thought war torn Iraq was much safer! After a few trips to Tijuana/Baja with me he didn't think it was dangerous at all. He use to get a kick that he could pass himself off as Mexican, although a few Mexicans figured out he was Arab. And I was always amazed at the border check point where the Border Patrol agents didn't bat an eye he was from Iraq and always let him pass right through with maybe two or three questions at most.

I guess when you actually visit or live in those places like Tijuana or Baghdad it's really not scary at all and you wonder what all the fuss is about. However, if you only depend on the news which is often sensationalized you get a different sense how those places are actually are because the news often portrays Baghdad and Tijuana as war zone with bodies lying all over the place.
----

Over in the Tijuana tourism front the Chamber of Commerce.
Julián Palombo Saucedo, vicepresidente de turismo is feeling quite optimistic about local tourism to Tijuana this summer and the 4th of July from neighboring US states close to the border, California, Arizona, and Nevada. Palombo said there is an increased presence of gringo tourism, although it's still predominately Hispanic or Mexican, and he probably means Mexican-American too, and they come and visit places like Hidalgo market, the Mercado de Artesanías, The Tijuana Cultural Center, and the many fine restaurants in the area. I could probably think of a few other places they didn't mention in the article. He also mentioned a large influx of tourists visiting Tijuana when they come to drop off or pick up relatives or friends at the airport.

From the "AFN-Tijuana:

http://www.afntijuana.info/nota_informativa2011.php?page=jun...

Aumenta consumo de drogas; principalmente en niños y mujeres

jenny.navarrette - 6-28-2011 at 12:48 PM



Don't worry JoeJustJoe is going to post an English translation for everybody, him being a Mexican-American and all, he is fluent in Spanish.

Woooosh - 6-29-2011 at 10:42 AM

http://www.sandiegored.com/noticias/14327/More-tourists-are-...

I don't think these people care about truth in numbers, they don't even have Calderon's current tourist numbers being down 9% from last year. This is the same people who brought us the "Rosarito Gringos in Paradise" video series...

I'll save you some time... They blame the media, 99 percent of people killed are in the drug trade and the gang fighting in the hills of TJ has no impact on the tourist sectors. These guys get paid to talk- so you have to excuse them if they are content-deprived.

[Edited on 6-29-2011 by Woooosh]

JoeJustJoe - 6-29-2011 at 11:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
http://www.sandiegored.com/noticias/14327/More-tourists-are-...

I don't think these people care about truth in numbers, they don't even have Calderon's current tourist numbers being down 9% from last year. This is the same people who brought us the "Rosarito Gringos in Paradise" video series...

I'll save you some time... They blame the media, 99 percent of people killed are in the drug trade and the gang fighting in the hills of TJ has no impact on the tourist sectors. These guys get paid to talk- so you have to excuse them if they are content-deprived.

[Edited on 6-29-2011 by Woooosh]


Does it really bother you Wooosh seeing it's not the American tourists who are dying in high numbers in drug related Mexican cartel activity?

Somebody has to counter all the negative stories about violence in Mexico. I don't know of anybody in Southern California who has a casual knowledge of Tijuana, Baja, or other place in Mexico, and hasn't heard the stories about the violence and thinks the border cities are extremely dangerous. I have had people who have limited knowledge about Mexico tell me that I must be insane because I like to visit Mexico and the border areas. ( of course many people believe I'm insane anyway)

The job of a tourist board or agency is to promote tourism. They could let others like the sensationalized newspapers give all the gory details of cartel violence and heads hanging from the bridges, and they have the US State department to warn them also.

Frankly I don't know what Woooosh and his ilk want from tourist agencies who get paid to promote tourism? Life goes on. It's not violence all the time in Baja especially during the day in the tourists hot spots.

I think guys like Woooosh get confused over their problems living in Baja, and believe the casual day tourists will face the same problems that Woooosh may have. Sorry Woooosh but you probably face a 500 percent greater danger of getting shot, mugged, or kidnapped than the typical day tourist that comes to Baja.

Woooosh - 6-29-2011 at 11:43 AM

"Sorry Woooosh but you probably face a 500 percent greater danger of getting shot, mugged, or kidnapped than the typical day tourist that comes to Baja."

Yup, that's a pro-tourism and "It's Safe to Visit TJ/Rosarito" platform if I ever heard one. I'm no longer considered a tourist in Mexico- so if me or another from the 12,000 strong expat community here get knocked-off, you likely won't read about it- it's considered "local interest". right? I've had an extortion, car theft, carjack attempt and two kidnap attempts here. That's not bad for six years really, some of my neighbors have gone through worse, much worse. So long as there are real estate and hotel driven tourist boards who get paid to twist the truth and numbers- there will be people like me to point it out to them. That's how it works- right? Fair and balanced? nope.

I'll bet the next thing the Tourist Board says is "Please Feed the $1 an hour Parking Meters of Rosarito". geeesh. They don't even consider the economic factors contributing to the tourism decline.

[Edited on 6-29-2011 by Woooosh]

EdZeranski - 6-29-2011 at 07:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
"Sorry Woooosh but you probably face a 500 percent greater danger of getting shot, mugged, or kidnapped than the typical day tourist that comes to Baja."

We've been going to Baja since 65 with some big breaks for kid raising etc. I guess the thing we do is be mannerly, speak at least enough of the language, and avoid the 'party venues'. Now that I have no hair color, well maybe three...red /gray/gone, we don't look like threats or targets of opportunity.

EdZ

...going back as soon as I can...Hello Blanca!!

Eli - 6-30-2011 at 10:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
I've had an extortion, car theft, carjack attempt and two kidnap attempts here. That's not bad for six years really, some of my neighbors have gone through worse, much worse.

[Edited on 6-29-2011 by Woooosh]


Woooosh, Your comments about what has happened to you and your neighbors has given me so much food for thought. I am so, so very sorry that you have had to deal with such awful things. It is a wonder you don't pack up and move.

Really, I don't know how you deal with it. I have always been so blessedly oblivious to the violence of our little planet. I know it goes on around me, but honestly your comments are about as close as I have ever personally come in contact with it.

Please know, I do not make light of your misfortune. It does make me aware that life is not all roses and daisy's. Again, I am so, so sorry that these things happen.

[Edited on 6-30-2011 by Eli]

[Edited on 7-1-2011 by Eli]