BajaNomad

pemex ripoff colonia vicente guerrero

absinvestor - 7-6-2011 at 06:07 PM

Seems like I've seen this problem here before but I couldn't find it on a search. When I travel in Mexico I always use a locking gas cap so the attendent can't start filling the tank before I get out of the motorhome. However, today when we crossed the border from Portrero I forgot to lock the cap. I decided to stop for gas at the first Pemex on the West side when heading south in Colonia Vicente Guerrerro. (I always estimate how much gas I will need and always just ask for a set amount in pesos.) I knew that I had forgotten to lock the cap so I immediately jumped out of the motorhome. To my surprise the attendent already had removed the cap. He had the nozzle inserted but had not yet pumped any gas. He asked if I wanted it filled and I said no. There was 274 pesos sitting on the pump from the last customer. I told the attendent to clear it. He gave me a puzzled look and again asked if I wanted it filled up. I again told him to clear the pump. He pointed at the left side of the pump (I believe this is the section that says how honest the station is etc.) I pointed my finger in his face and screamed at him that I was not going to tell him again to clear the pump. I told him I wanted 800 pesos worth but not to touch the handle until the pump was zero'd out. He finally cleared the pump and hollered at the manager to put 800 pesos on the pump. I have encountered attendents that haven't cleared the pump play stupid on the first try but I have never had one so blatantly try not to clear it 3 times. He also had his girlfriend at the pump that tried to talk small talk with me but I kept my eyes on the pump and refused to be distracted. Different systems work for different people but a locking gas cap , asking for a set amount in pesos and watching everything that happens works for me.

Russ - 7-6-2011 at 06:48 PM

You did Good !

mtgoat666 - 7-6-2011 at 07:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by absinvestor
I pointed my finger in his face and screamed at him that I was not going to tell him again to clear the pump.


did you scream in spanish or english?

in this type of situation, the loser is the one who loses his cool first.

absinvestor - 7-6-2011 at 08:34 PM

A combination. By the third time I was furious and I think I said "I'm not telling you again- Cero Ti." but I wouldn't swear to the translation. What I am sure about is that the attendant understood that I wasn't kidding.

monoloco - 7-7-2011 at 05:32 AM

Once you shut off the pump and replace the nozzle, I don't think that you can restart it without it going back to zero. As soon as they flip the lever on the side it resets so when they are standing there with the nozzle in their hand asking how much fuel you want it will still have the amount from the last purchase showing but when he flips it to start your purchase it will automatically reset.

Bob and Susan - 7-7-2011 at 05:45 AM

this is correct...

i dont think there was a problem here with the attendant

mcfez - 7-7-2011 at 06:02 AM

Sorry.....but how do you know that the attendant was bout to rip you off? I have been in MANY stations where there was still the fare showing on the pumps....and the attendant cleared it right after I requested the amount of fuel needed.


Had he NOT cleared the fare.....you could had stopped him immediately.

I think you were rude towards a perfectly innocent dude....if someone was screaming at me...and accusing me of being a rip off artist...you know where I would stick that nozzle at.....

[Edited on 7-7-2011 by mcfez]

Marc - 7-7-2011 at 06:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Once you shut off the pump and replace the nozzle, I don't think that you can restart it without it going back to zero. As soon as they flip the lever on the side it resets so when they are standing there with the nozzle in their hand asking how much fuel you want it will still have the amount from the last purchase showing but when he flips it to start your purchase it will automatically reset.


Then why was he able to zero out??

surfdoc - 7-7-2011 at 06:58 AM

Wow...........I've been doing it wrong for years.

How can I get ripped off ??? Since it hasn't happened yet.. I guess I'll stop getting out, stretching and smile at the attendant while asking him to fill it, Then joking with them about the dogs trying to lick his face.

Screaming..........thats the ticket to being a true Baja traveler...

thanks!!!

:rolleyes:

RnR - 7-7-2011 at 07:01 AM

Not sure if this applies at all Pemex's but definately at the new, self serve, Pemex's. I've had it happen two or three times.

There's a timer in the pump that stops and locks the pump and the display after a period of inactivity. As when you are filling five gallon containers and stop pumping long enough to put the cap on the full container and take the cap off the next empty container.

Say that you pre-pay 400 pesos. The first container takes 200 pesos. While holding the nozzle as you close the first and open the second, the timer times out. (It's not very long).

The attendant in the caja has to reload the pump with the balance before it will reset to zero and start pumping again. This has happened repeatedly at our local self-serve station.

This is very similiar to the scenario that happens occasionally when the attendants are capping and uncapping the dual tanks on a pickup and say "the pump stopped, here's the first value, now I need to reset to zero to fill the second tank..." Hard to rip yourself off at a self serve station ....

So, an attendant standing there with the nozzle at the ready MAY HAVE to reset to zero before pumping if the pump's timer has timed out.

absinvestor - 7-7-2011 at 07:09 AM

You may be right but I am the easiest going person in the world. I asked him very politely the first time to reset the pump. He understood me but was pushing to start pumping the gas. I know that at least one time in the past that the total on the pump exceeded the maximum gallons my motorhome would hold by at least 12 gallons. No way to win the argument if the pump shows 50 gallons and you have a 35 gallon tank.

David K - 7-7-2011 at 07:19 AM

Been buying gas for ages and the only rip-off I have experienced are pumps that are mis-calibrated (the ones that can put 23 liters into a 19 liter can, for example).

Too bad you couldn't make it to Baja Cactus Pemex in El Rosario... honest pumps guaranteed! There (and other Pemex stations I buy at) the attendant:
1) asks how much gas I want to buy, and what grade of gas I want.
2) with nozzle in hand then clears the pump and points out it is on zero.
3) puts in that amount of gas and collects money.

The station will have their exchange rate displayed and a calculator is used to figure the dollars (if you have pesos, no worries).

I think the OP was angry at himself for forgetting to lock his cap and assumed that his slip-up would cause an instant rip-off at the first place to find the cap unlocked? That the attendant was holding the nozzle and asking how much was quite normal... IF he had the nozzle already running gas into the RV then that would deserve a yelling! I mean Magna or Premium hadn't been asked yet.

An attendant that does the right procedure, cleans windows, etc. gets a 10 peso/ 1 dollar tip typically from me... Good to encourage honest service, I say! Remember their pay is about $10, a day... and if the gringos in their vacation vehicles can't gift them a bit for good service, it won't help.

monoloco - 7-7-2011 at 07:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Marc
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Once you shut off the pump and replace the nozzle, I don't think that you can restart it without it going back to zero. As soon as they flip the lever on the side it resets so when they are standing there with the nozzle in their hand asking how much fuel you want it will still have the amount from the last purchase showing but when he flips it to start your purchase it will automatically reset.


Then why was he able to zero out??
It zeros out as soon as the attendant flips the lever to start filling the tank. The only way that they can not zero it is if the attendant left the lever down and didn't replace the nozzle into the pump after the last sale. In other words, the only way they could cheat you is when the previous customer pulls away from the pump the attendant could stand there holding the nozzle then start pumping your gas without flipping the lever, if the nozzle is in the pump when you pull up there is no way to not zero the pump.

absinvestor - 7-7-2011 at 08:06 AM

Sounds like I over reacted. Sure didn't look right to me but probably my mistake. In the past, attendents have pointed to the zero's and when they didn't appear I thought the 274 pesos would remain when he started pumping. When I return to the area I will gas up at this same station and give the attendant a nice tip.

David K - 7-7-2011 at 08:35 AM

Hey, that is really cool of you absinvestor!! :light::bounce::cool:

surfdoc - 7-7-2011 at 09:11 AM

My reply was just serious early morning sarcasm.......

But thats very cool of ya Ab's!!!!

PS.....and I hope the guy earns that tip!

[Edited on 7-7-2011 by surfdoc]

absinvestor - 7-7-2011 at 09:44 AM

Thanks David K. I love the Mexican people and have always tried my best to do the right thing when traveling in Mexico. In this case, I was wrong and will find a way to make it right.

gallesram - 7-7-2011 at 09:48 AM

This whole thread is why I like this site; all of us buy gas down there and probably wonder where the pitfalls lie. Now I know a bit more about how it all works. I always make a habit of watching the meter when they start to pump (and about 50% of the time, the attendant will acknowledge that it's at zero, so I assume that they are used to people watching). Everyone loses their cool now and then when traveling (I typically explode when I get pulled over by a crooked cop) but I for one appreciate you raising this so that I could see everyone's perspective on it. Also a gracious reaction to the different posts which followed.

Cypress - 7-7-2011 at 11:46 AM

Yea, PEMEX ought to go to self-serve. Flip the lever and pump your gas. Pay the attendant and go. No bigee!

toneart - 7-7-2011 at 12:18 PM

Hey hey!

It is not like nobody has ever been cheated at a Pemex. It happens and many incidences have been related here on Bajanomad.

I can see how Abs could have thought he was being taken. The attendant did not point to the pump to show zeros like they usually do, huh? He already had the nozzle in the tank? There was already a balance where the zeros should be?...all suspicious behavior!

Some have commented that as soon as the attendant trips the lever it goes to zero? OK, if this is true, why didn't he?

There is the possibility that this guy was not trying to cheat and that Ab was mistaken, but cheating Pemex attendants are part of their sordid history. We should be skeptical and vigilant. Abs was polite with the first request and the attendant should have zeroed it out and pointed to the zeros.

There have been all kinds of ploys; girlfriends or others hanging around and distracting the customer; pumps that have been tampered with. I have heard of pumps being controlled from inside the station by flipping a switch. Then there is the cheating with the money: claiming you gave less than you did when the bring you the change, or giving the wrong change. With such a history, I would not be inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Having said all of this, I will say that most of my experiences have been positive, whereas, in all the times I have traveled throughout Baja, there have been just a very few times where I feel I was cheated. Most have been honest, as far as I know!

I agree that Antonio's Pemex in El Rosario is honest. I enjoy the relaxed, friendly conversations with their attendants too. Then I check in at The Baja Cactus Hotel where I have always gotten a great room and great service.

shari - 7-7-2011 at 12:50 PM

way to go Ab...I"m proud of you for accepting the possibility that you may have been wrong. I have alot of experience on both sides of this story and I can tell you that 9.5 times out of 10...the person thinking they got ripped off....didnt. It is usually just mild ignorance of the situation, a misunderstanding or counting wrong....I'm just sayin....truth be told as many did in this thread....exploding with anger is not the way to deal with anything in this culture....so the sooner one learns that here, the better all things will go....cheers and thanks for lessons learned.

monoloco - 7-7-2011 at 04:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Yea, PEMEX ought to go to self-serve. Flip the lever and pump your gas. Pay the attendant and go. No bigee!
I disagree, I appreciate having someone pump my gas so I don't have to handle a smelly nozzle or get out of my car when it's 100º or -20º, plus it gives a guy a job. Being from Oregon where there is no self serve, I always thought it to be a real inconvenience for the elderly and infirm in the states where all the stations are self serve.

DianaT - 7-7-2011 at 04:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Yea, PEMEX ought to go to self-serve. Flip the lever and pump your gas. Pay the attendant and go. No bigee!
I disagree, I appreciate having someone pump my gas so I don't have to handle a smelly nozzle or get out of my car when it's 100º or -20º, plus it gives a guy a job. Being from Oregon where there is no self serve, I always thought it to be a real inconvenience for the elderly and infirm in the states where all the stations are self serve.


Ah shucks, this is what I miss----the time when they were Service Stations. :yes::yes:

http://youtu.be/G5iypuYl4E0


I really do hope they don't all turn into self-serve as that would be a job killer.



[Edited on 7-8-2011 by DianaT]

bajagrouper - 7-7-2011 at 04:49 PM

And just think how all of this could have been avoided if you had just locked your gas cap at the last Pemex station............

mcfez - 7-7-2011 at 05:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajagrouper
And just think how all of this could have been avoided if you had just locked your gas cap at the last Pemex station............



:light:

dtutko1 - 7-8-2011 at 06:13 AM

Live and Learn, what a concept. Hats off to you Absinvestor.

dtutko1 - 7-8-2011 at 06:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Yea, PEMEX ought to go to self-serve. Flip the lever and pump your gas. Pay the attendant and go. No bigee!
I disagree, I appreciate having someone pump my gas so I don't have to handle a smelly nozzle or get out of my car when it's 100º or -20º, plus it gives a guy a job. Being from Oregon where there is no self serve, I always thought it to be a real inconvenience for the elderly and infirm in the states where all the stations are self serve.


Minus 20? What Pemex are you using?

larryC - 7-8-2011 at 08:36 AM

The vast majority of my experiences at Pemex stations have been positive. The attendants do their job and are helpful if you need it. The one place that I will not go to again is the original Pemex station in Sta. Rosalia. In the last 40 years they have tried to rip me off everytime I go in there.. The last time (a few years ago) there were 3 of us traveling together and we all pulled into that Pemex. We all went about our own business and filled our vehicles. When my pumps meter read 237 pesos it suddenly shut itself off. The attendant came over and messed with it for a few seconds and then showed me the amount on the meter and said he would have to restart the pump at zero pesos. He did and pumped in another 583 pesos before the pump shut off automatically. He then used his calculator and came up with a total of 920 pesos. I just looked at him and smiled. Told him politely to recalculate it. He did and came up with 940 pesos. When I didn't pay and just smiled at him he recalculated again and came up with the correct amount of 820 pesos. I paid and was on my way. Later when we all got together and compared stories, the same thing had happened to them. So just because the pump starts at zero they can still get you.
Larry

Roberto - 7-8-2011 at 08:49 AM

I will say this - all pumps I have seen recently have a sign that says "make sure the pump reads zero". And, apparently, attendants are now trained to show you the zeros and wait for your response before they start pumping.

Must be a reason for this? Not sure shouting helps, however.

DENNIS - 7-8-2011 at 11:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Roberto
I will say this - all pumps I have seen recently have a sign that says "make sure the pump reads zero". And, apparently, attendants are now trained to show you the zeros and wait for your response before they start pumping.



That is what I've noticed here. Now...if they can just figure out how to pump only five gallons into a five gallon tank, it will be a perfect world.

preston - 7-8-2011 at 02:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Yea, PEMEX ought to go to self-serve. Flip the lever and pump your gas. Pay the attendant and go. No bigee!
I disagree, I appreciate having someone pump my gas so I don't have to handle a smelly nozzle or get out of my car when it's 100º or -20º, plus it gives a guy a job. Being from Oregon where there is no self serve, I always thought it to be a real inconvenience for the elderly and infirm in the states where all the stations are self serve.


Ah shucks, this is what I miss----the time when they were Service Stations. :yes::yes:

http://youtu.be/G5iypuYl4E0


I really do hope they don't all turn into self-serve as that would be a job killer.



[Edited on 7-8-2011 by DianaT]


If you are infirm or too elderly to pump your own gas you have no business driving.

Self serve a "job killer"? Why not get rid of Fast Pass and all those other "job killer" innovations (I could list hundreds) that have improved the standard of living for all.

Let businesses make their own decisions. Remember when the "full serve" pumps charged $.1 per gallon extra for the service ... for the most part that tells you what the market wants .... SELF SERVE.

In fact, would you suggest that we go back to the old style grocery store where the shopkeeper retrieved all your items from behind the counter for you?

Mexican gas is a rigged market ...

DianaT - 7-8-2011 at 03:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by preston
Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Yea, PEMEX ought to go to self-serve. Flip the lever and pump your gas. Pay the attendant and go. No bigee!
I disagree, I appreciate having someone pump my gas so I don't have to handle a smelly nozzle or get out of my car when it's 100º or -20º, plus it gives a guy a job. Being from Oregon where there is no self serve, I always thought it to be a real inconvenience for the elderly and infirm in the states where all the stations are self serve.


Ah shucks, this is what I miss----the time when they were Service Stations. :yes::yes:

http://youtu.be/G5iypuYl4E0


I really do hope they don't all turn into self-serve as that would be a job killer.



[Edited on 7-8-2011 by DianaT]


If you are infirm or too elderly to pump your own gas you have no business driving.

Self serve a "job killer"? Why not get rid of Fast Pass and all those other "job killer" innovations (I could list hundreds) that have improved the standard of living for all.

Let businesses make their own decisions. Remember when the "full serve" pumps charged $.1 per gallon extra for the service ... for the most part that tells you what the market wants .... SELF SERVE.

In fact, would you suggest that we go back to the old style grocery store where the shopkeeper retrieved all your items from behind the counter for you?

Mexican gas is a rigged market ...


Phew! Such a diatribe! I should not even respond --but I will once and then be done with it.

Of course I don't want everything to go back to the good old days which were not so good for a lot of people----the clip was just a little attempt at a little nostalgia for fun----I guess a failed attempt.

Job killer? Yes, it would be. It is like where we live in Bahia Asuncion one small street cleaner and one automatic lawnmower would be a lot more efficient and quicker for cleaning our main street----but it would put about 5 guys out of well needed jobs. Modern inventions don't always improve the living standard for all.

And as far as the Mexican gas being a rigged market? Well if it is, it is ---- or as we often say, it is what it is and it is our choice to be there or not.

Still shaking my head---ni modo

Bajahowodd - 7-8-2011 at 04:48 PM

My two cents:

There are some, relatively few Pemex franchisees, that have gamed the pumps. But the vast majority do not.

This forum, over the years, has identified a handful of stations such as the Southern-most Vizcaino, and one in Santa Rosalia, as perps.

Bottom line, in my opinion, for folks on vacation, if they are going to become apoplectic over maybe los a couple of bucks at a "crooked" Pemex station, they really ought to stay home where they can get screwed a million ways by the current system.

It's a vacation.

Leo - 7-8-2011 at 05:24 PM

Sorry bajahowodd, it is not a vacation for many. If you live in Baja for 6 months or as some do permanent, it is a lifestyle that needs prudent spending of money, pesos or dollars.
Still if they clean my front windows, I am happy to give them a the big cartwheel. I hate those 10 peso coins, too big!

Bajahowodd - 7-8-2011 at 05:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Leo
Sorry bajahowodd, it is not a vacation for many. If you live in Baja for 6 months or as some do permanent, it is a lifestyle that needs prudent spending of money, pesos or dollars.
Still if they clean my front windows, I am happy to give them a the big cartwheel. I hate those 10 peso coins, too big!


Actually, I had already given the thought about that.

To distinguish between tourists and full or part time folks, I would have to imagine that people who spend much of their time SOB, would not only realize if, and where they may be getting ripped off, but could take their business elsewhere, and notify the appropriate authorities.

I go back to my original notion, that for those taking a vacation, losing a couple of bucks, if it happens, is really not worth getting into a situation that could be threatening to your safety.

Enjoy.

longlegsinlapaz - 7-8-2011 at 06:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by preston
If you are infirm or too elderly to pump your own gas you have no business driving.

Does the same logic apply to people of any age who are allergic to either gas fumes or physical contact with gasoline? :(
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
My two cents:

There are some, relatively few Pemex franchisees, that have gamed the pumps. But the vast majority do not.

This forum, over the years, has identified a handful of stations such as the Southern-most Vizcaino, and one in Santa Rosalia, as perps.

Bottom line, in my opinion, for folks on vacation, if they are going to become apoplectic over maybe los a couple of bucks at a "crooked" Pemex station, they really ought to stay home where they can get screwed a million ways by the current system.

It's a vacation.


Just one handful? :?: That would be....hmmmmmmm, a maximum of a whopping grand total of 5 stations the length of the peninsula! So much for credibility!

Residents don't buy gas a couple times a year, they buy it on a regular basis. The local population's earning power is abysmally low, as is the case for many foreign retirees. Do you think it's fair for the locals to get ripped off....frequently TWICE....once by the station owner who has rigged the pumps & again by the pump attendants who intentionally miscalculate &/or short-change customers....change which goes into their own pockets?

For many, there are greater issues than "a couple of bucks" a couple times a year. There's moral & ethical issues, not to mention the fact that it's illegal by both Mexican & foreign standards....it's dishonest & it's theft. Would you be quite as accepting of this practice if it happened every time you filled up at any & all of the local gas stations you frequent? :?:

absinvestor - 7-8-2011 at 09:34 PM

To Bajahowodd- I have admitted that the way I handled this was off base and I'm not making excuses for my inexcusable behavior. However, it was not the amount of money that set me off. On my way to Baja I gassed up in California. I paid $4.27/gallon for 67 gallons. In Mexico I pay around $3.09 so the $25 sitting on the pump was not the issue. I just don't like to be cheated. For example, a couple of years ago I had a friend that inherited some gold jewelry. The jewelry didn't have any sentimental value and he decided to sell it. He wanted to get the best price and decided to get three bids. I took him to a jeweler that I knew. The jeweler weighed his gold and told him he would give him $375/oz. (Gold was selling in the neighborhood of $1000/oz.) When we questioned the amount he said he was in the business to make money and $375 was all he was willing to pay.(No hard feelings but my friend hoped to get more.) We than took the same jewelry to a second dealer- same weight and similar price/oz. For the 3rd dealer we took it to a place that guaranteed highest prices paid etc. When we walked in he said he pd 775/oz. However, when he weighed it he said it weighed about 1/3 of what the other two jewelers said it weighed. After we confronted him about the weight he re-weighed and said he had made an error and the new weight was very similar to the first two. However, he wouldn't honor his quote of 775/oz- in fact he reduced the offer/oz to under $375!! Obviously he was a cheat which was totalling upsetting and even if he had offered $400/oz there was no way my friend would do business with him. As for the first two, even though their price per oz seemed low we were not in the least upset. I don't get upset over a price that I can either accept or reject, I just don't want to be lied to and cheated,

oldtortisegrl - 7-9-2011 at 02:50 PM

Three weeks, two vehicles and no problems, no rip offs, not a single problem with anything missing or thinking we were shorted. My experience anyway.....
June 15-July 6th
Turtle girl

Another Possibility

BCSTech - 7-9-2011 at 03:23 PM

OK, I think it's possible that attendant may have tried to rip him off after all. I'll tell you how an attendant pulled this same trick on me a few years ago in Santa Rosalia.

Got out of the truck and told the attendant to "fill it." As he pulled out the pump, his accomplice behind me asked if I wanted my windshield washed. Distracted for a few seconds, I turned around. I soon as I turned back around to face my friendly attendant, he casually leaned his left arm against the post and engaged me in small talk. He had put his arm up in just the right spot so I could not see the pump dial behind it.

Then he stopped "pumping, lowered his arm and removed the nozzle from my gas tank, saying that will be $100 pesos and pointed at the pump. "No," I said, "I wanted it filled." "OK," he said. "I'll reset the pump and just add the $100 pesos on to the next total.

I knew something was wrong but couldn't figure out what. After I paid and I drove away, I realized that I'd been "had," and how he did it...

While I was being distracted by his accomplice, El Zorro had punched up 100 pesos on the pump but never started it, then put his arm up so I couldn't see it.

Simple, effective. Boy was I angry and did I feel stupid :rolleyes:

I'm voting for the attempted $274 peso ripoff.

Bajahowodd - 7-9-2011 at 03:53 PM

So maybe I'm a bit naive. But, I always thought that between Pemex, itself, which has a certain responsibilty in regulating its franchisees, and Profeco, which as a governmant agency, is reponsible to ensure the accuracy of the pumps, the actual number of incidents involving a scam or rip off would be rather low. After all, those Profeco stamps are affixed to virtually all pumps that I've patronized.

Referencing "legs'" love note to me, I really have to wonder, and certainly not anywhere being an expert in this, given the immense number of Pemex stations in the La Paz area.....

Are they all ripping off people? Does no government entity, local or federal get involved?

DENNIS - 7-9-2011 at 05:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Referencing "legs'" love note to me,



What???? You got a love-note from LLiLP?

I am flabbergasted. I want one of those. How did you do this?

OK, Leggy one. If I promise to never call you a fishwife again, will you love-note me?

I whole-heartedly await your reply. [kiss kiss]

Lee - 7-9-2011 at 05:18 PM

Sure looks like Dennis is flirting. Dennis? You in to bar girls?

Seriously folks. This is really old news. Scammers are out there. Esp. at Pemex.

When you get out of your vehicle, having unlocked your gas cap compartment from inside, or have gone outside to unlock the locked gas cap on your vehicle, look at the pump, tell the attendant how much fuel you want, watch the pump reset, and watch the pump until it stops pumping.

Be aware that anyone blocking the numbers on the pump are probably trying to scam you.

If there are 2 attendants there, and one is blocking the pump numbers, and the other is talking to you, so you'll need to turn to look at him, and away from the pump, you are most likely being scammed.

What is it about ''scam'' don't you victims understand?

Be focused when you drive into a Pemex and pay attention?

ANYONE getting scammed at Pemex is NOT paying attention.

Dennis pays attention, I bet. Dennis doesn't get scammed.

BCSTech - 7-9-2011 at 07:52 PM

OK, got that already.

Returning to the original question; was absinvestor scammed or not?

DENNIS - 7-9-2011 at 08:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lee
Dennis pays attention, I bet. Dennis doesn't get scammed.


I like to think you're right, Lee. Thanks.

Lee - 7-10-2011 at 08:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BCSTech
OK, got that already.

Returning to the original question; was absinvestor scammed or not?


It's possible he was scammed. He's given it some thought -- if he thinks he was scammed, he probably was. The lesson for him, and us, is to expect a scam and look for it.

Unfortunate but true, at least for me, but that's just the way it is. Don't think the scammers see it as a big deal. Few pesos here, few pesos there. Nothing personal.

Don't be lulled into a false sense of security.

mcfez - 7-10-2011 at 08:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ridge
How about showing up with one of these, and politely asking



http://www.polyfab.biz/large_graduated_cylinders.htm
Polycarbonate or nylon recommended

This contraption looks more like a pee test bottle for DENNIS :)

toneart - 7-10-2011 at 09:34 AM

It happens! Abs probably got ripped off. Just be aware and do your best to prevent it.

Graft starts at the top levels of government. It is ingrained into the system and into the culture. Nothing that a few (or more) pesos can't cure. It is a game.:smug:

preston - 7-11-2011 at 08:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by lencho
Quote:
Originally posted by preston
If you are infirm or too elderly to pump your own gas you have no business driving.
Business? I think most folks have no business handling volatile fuels with zero training as is currently the norm in most places. Surprising there aren't more incidents...


Hmmmm ... let me see. There are about 250 Million cars in the USA. Assuming they each fill-up on an average of 1 time per week ... that means there are about 35 million fill-ups per day. Let's assume 90% are self-serve ... that gives us about 30 million people handling volaitile fuels per day. I've never heard about 1 explosion due to mishandling at the pump (maybe there have been some ... I've just never heard of them).

Seems to me you are more 1,000 times more likely to get killed by lightening than mishandling volatile fuel at a gas station .... hmmmmm

Of course, if you are still concerned, you could have that "professional" (high school kid who is probably high on weed) pump that volatile fuel for you (who I am absolutely sure has received extensive safety training on how to handle volatile fuels).

preston - 7-11-2011 at 08:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
Quote:
Originally posted by preston
If you are infirm or too elderly to pump your own gas you have no business driving.

Does the same logic apply to people of any age who are allergic to either gas fumes or physical contact with gasoline? :(


Never heard of anyone who is alergic to gasoline. But, let's assume that 1 in 10,000 people are really alergic to gasoline.

Are you suggesting that we force 150 million drivers in the USA to use (pay extra for) full-service to accomodate 15,000 people who are alergic to gas and cannot use disposible gloves and take care not to breath fumes at the pump? Really?

Or are you suggesting that all gas stations be required by law to offer some pumps with full service?

[Edited on 7-11-2011 by preston]

[Edited on 7-11-2011 by preston]

preston - 7-11-2011 at 08:58 AM

My issue with gas in Mexico is the fact that the government sets the prices. A very low volume operation in a remote area is required to charge the same price as a high volume station in a more urban area. I do not be-grudge a station in Gonzaga or BOLA for example charging 25% more than one in Tijuana, Mexicali, etc.

As it is, the low volume operation is in a difficult situation (because of the government) to either be honest and limit his hours of operation (to keep costs down) or try to make money on other items or services or be dishonest and rig the meters. It's difficult for the low volume operator to make an honest buck because the government has rigged the game ... I feel for these guys.

As someone pointed out ... a few extra bucks for gas in Baja means nothing to me. I love Baja and the fact that I can get gas at all in these remote areas is amazing. I just wish the government would make it easier for these guys to make an honest buck.

preston - 7-11-2011 at 09:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Job killer? Yes, it would be. It is like where we live in Bahia Asuncion one small street cleaner and one automatic lawnmower would be a lot more efficient and quicker for cleaning our main street----but it would put about 5 guys out of well needed jobs. Modern inventions don't always improve the living standard for all.


Your absolutely right, modern inventions do not improve the standard of living for all (some people are naturally displaced). Modern inventions, do, however, improve the standard of living for most people. That is progress.

To extend your example to the USA ... would you advocate that we abolish street cleaners and lawnmowers so that more people could be employed? Really?

David K - 7-11-2011 at 09:05 AM

You are so right-on Preston... :light::bounce:

preston - 7-11-2011 at 09:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
So maybe I'm a bit naive. But, I always thought that between Pemex, itself, which has a certain responsibilty in regulating its franchisees, and Profeco, which as a governmant agency, is reponsible to ensure the accuracy of the pumps, the actual number of incidents involving a scam or rip off would be rather low. After all, those Profeco stamps are affixed to virtually all pumps that I've patronized.

Referencing "legs'" love note to me, I really have to wonder, and certainly not anywhere being an expert in this, given the immense number of Pemex stations in the La Paz area.....

Are they all ripping off people? Does no government entity, local or federal get involved?


Yes, you are naive.

longlegsinlapaz - 7-11-2011 at 09:28 AM

If you Google "allergic to gasoline" & you might discover that your never having heard of it doesn't make it non-existent & you could gain some factual information.
Quote:
Originally posted by preston
Are you suggesting that we force 150 million drivers in the USA to use (pay extra for) full-service to accomodate 15,000 people who are alergic to gas and cannot use disposible gloves and take care not to breath fumes at the pump? Really?

Or are you suggesting that all gas stations be required by law to offer some pumps with full service?

Of course I wasn't, because for starters, this as a Baja PEMEX-related topic & second I was offering just one example of valid reasons beyond age or infirmity that many people may choose to frequent stations with attendants.

DianaT - 7-11-2011 at 09:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by preston
Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Job killer? Yes, it would be. It is like where we live in Bahia Asuncion one small street cleaner and one automatic lawnmower would be a lot more efficient and quicker for cleaning our main street----but it would put about 5 guys out of well needed jobs. Modern inventions don't always improve the living standard for all.


Your absolutely right, modern inventions do not improve the standard of living for all (some people are naturally displaced). Modern inventions, do, however, improve the standard of living for most people. That is progress.

To extend your example to the USA ... would you advocate that we abolish street cleaners and lawnmowers so that more people could be employed? Really?


Apples and Oranges----

for our society, it is really sad to see how much Ayn Rand has influenced so many. :no::no:

BCSTech - 7-11-2011 at 09:43 AM

Quote:
for our society, it is really sad to see how much Ayn Rand has influenced so many.
Amen to that.

preston - 7-11-2011 at 09:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
If you Google "allergic to gasoline" & you might discover that your never having heard of it doesn't make it non-existent & you could gain some factual information.

Quote:
Originally posted by preston
Are you suggesting that we force 150 million drivers in the USA to use (pay extra for) full-service to accomodate 15,000 people who are alergic to gas and cannot use disposible gloves and take care not to breath fumes at the pump? Really?

Or are you suggesting that all gas stations be required by law to offer some pumps with full service?

Of course I wasn't, because for starters, this as a Baja PEMEX-related topic & second I was offering just one example of valid reasons beyond age or infirmity that many people may choose to frequent stations with attendants.


Sorry if I was a bit too aggressive. I have no problem with people choosing gas stations with or without attendants ... or with gas stations that choose to offer attendants or not. I do, however, have a problem with the government forcing me to use or not use attendants or the gas station owner deciding to provide or not provide attendants.

And I don't doubt for a minute that there are many people who are allergic to gasoline to some level.

preston - 7-11-2011 at 10:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ridge
Quote:
Originally posted by preston...I've never heard about 1 explosion due to mishandling at the pump...you are more 1,000 times more likely to get killed by lightening...
"...the Petroleum Equipment Institute has documented over 150 cases of static-related gas fires..."

Pull it out, Mr. Flamethrower!



Rub That Fuzzy Sweater



Pull Out & Squirt #2



Search results for

gas station explosion

About 6,090 results


Okay, 150 fires over how long? 25 years?

And how many resulted in deaths? Any?

Are you suggesting that we abolish self serve and leave it up to the minimum wage "professionals"?

BCSTech - 7-11-2011 at 10:21 AM

Here we go, off topic again...

preston - 7-11-2011 at 10:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Quote:
Originally posted by preston
Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Job killer? Yes, it would be. It is like where we live in Bahia Asuncion one small street cleaner and one automatic lawnmower would be a lot more efficient and quicker for cleaning our main street----but it would put about 5 guys out of well needed jobs. Modern inventions don't always improve the living standard for all.


Your absolutely right, modern inventions do not improve the standard of living for all (some people are naturally displaced). Modern inventions, do, however, improve the standard of living for most people. That is progress.

To extend your example to the USA ... would you advocate that we abolish street cleaners and lawnmowers so that more people could be employed? Really?


Apples and Oranges----

for our society, it is really sad to see how much Ayn Rand has influenced so many. :no::no:


Okay, let's stay in Mexico. Let's say you have an entreprenuerial young man who wants to buy a lawnmower and offer his services to consumers, businesses and the government. He can mow 5 lawns per day, but will displace 5 men who mow 1 lawn per day manually. Should the Mexican government make it illegal for this young entreprenuer to use a lawnmower in the name of "more employment"?

I actually have a real life experience in my company's Mexico City office. For the longest time they employed a woman who worked 40 hours per week cleaning the office. She would sweep all the carpeted floors (very carefully taking 3 or 4 hours per day). When I told them to buy a vacuum cleaner and use her 2 or 3 days per week ... she quit (she apparently wanted to work full time at one place). Should vacuum cleaners be illegal in Mexico in the name of "more employment"?

Diana: I'd like to see your list of modern conveniences that you believe should be outlawed in Mexico in the name of "more employment" ... I assume dishwashers and clothes washers are at the top of your list ... and those silly electro-mechanical tortilla makers would be close behind.

Hell, if we just got rid of electricity and gasoline, that would put an end to these job crushing modern conveniences.

[Edited on 7-11-2011 by preston]

preston - 7-11-2011 at 10:30 AM

This discussion reminds me of a great story told by the management guru from the 60's and 70's, Peter Drucker. He travelled to China where a dam was being contructed. His host (some government official) proudly announced that 10,000 people were being employed in the construction of the dam. Mr. Drucker observed that most of the 10,000 were digging by hand with pick and shovel. Mr. Drucker then commented to his host ... "why not give your workers spoons to dig with so that you can employ 20,000 workers?"

His host was silent and confused.

BTW: that would be 20,000 jobs "created or saved" in Obamaspeak.

[Edited on 7-11-2011 by preston]

DianaT - 7-11-2011 at 10:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by preston


Diana: I'd like to see your list of modern conveniences that you believe should be outlawed in Mexico in the name of "more employment" ... I assume dishwashers and clothes washers are at the top of your list ... and those silly electro-mechanical tortilla makers would be close behind.


[Edited on 7-11-2011 by preston]


Don't believe I said anything about outlawing anything????

Don't believe I even indicated that I might believe in such a thing?????

You seem to be quick to make irrational assumptions about what one does or does not believe----

Thus, there is no rational conversation to be had.
:no::no:

preston - 7-11-2011 at 10:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Quote:
Originally posted by preston


Diana: I'd like to see your list of modern conveniences that you believe should be outlawed in Mexico in the name of "more employment" ... I assume dishwashers and clothes washers are at the top of your list ... and those silly electro-mechanical tortilla makers would be close behind.


[Edited on 7-11-2011 by preston]


Don't believe I said anything about outlawing anything????

Don't believe I even indicated that I might believe in such a thing?????

You seem to be quick to make irrational assumptions about what one does or does not believe----

Thus, there is no rational conversation to be had.
:no::no:


Geee ... I guess when you were extolling the benefits (5 people employed) of manually cleaning the streets and mowing lawns I assumed that you believed manual cleaning of streets and mowing of lawns was good.

And in case you forgot, Ayn Rand was all about the evils of government force and control over the individual. So, why did you see her influence as sad?

BCSTech - 7-11-2011 at 11:04 AM

Sigh, time to remove myself from the notifications list for this topic...

toneart - 7-11-2011 at 05:06 PM

Quote:
Quote:


Okay, let's stay in Mexico. Let's say you have an entreprenuerial young man who wants to buy a lawnmower and offer his services to consumers, businesses and the government. He can mow 5 lawns per day, but will displace 5 men who mow 1 lawn per day manually. Should the Mexican government make it illegal for this young entreprenuer to use a lawnmower in the name of "more employment"?

I actually have a real life experience in my company's Mexico City office. For the longest time they employed a woman who worked 40 hours per week cleaning the office. She would sweep all the carpeted floors (very carefully taking 3 or 4 hours per day). When I told them to buy a vacuum cleaner and use her 2 or 3 days per week ... she quit (she apparently wanted to work full time at one place). Should vacuum cleaners be illegal in Mexico in the name of "more employment"?

Diana: I'd like to see your list of modern conveniences that you believe should be outlawed in Mexico in the name of "more employment" ... I assume dishwashers and clothes washers are at the top of your list ... and those silly electro-mechanical tortilla makers would be close behind.

Hell, if we just got rid of electricity and gasoline, that would put an end to these job crushing modern conveniences.

[Edited on 7-11-2011 by preston]


Yes! That's the way it works in Mexico. It's all about the worker and protecting jobs. :yes:

No to outlawing more modern machinery. but many prefer not to use them. :no: