BajaNomad - Can the police take my drivers license

Can the police take my drivers license

capitolkat - 8-5-2011 at 01:40 PM

I did a little tango with the local municpal policia this week and when he saw I wasn't going to pay the mordida he let me go with a warning. but, during the dance he had my license and said he was keeping it and i could get it back tomorow when I paid the $200USD fine for speeding. I told him he couldn't have my license - write the infraction and I would pay the ticket at the transito the next day. ( it was 6PM) he said-- "how much do you want to pay" "won't you pay $100" all in english-- My response I pay nothing at the side of the road. he twice said " El licensia para mi"

while I didn't pay and he gave me my license back-- Could he have legally kept my license?

BajaGringo - 8-5-2011 at 01:43 PM

Good reason to keep your old, expired license from NOB. Hand that to them instead...

Cypress - 8-5-2011 at 01:46 PM

He could have shot you and left your license in the dirt.

Curt63 - 8-5-2011 at 02:12 PM

Not if you handed him a photocopy

bajaguy - 8-5-2011 at 02:15 PM

I always carry a laminated color copy of my DL.......good throwaway insurance. Never give up the original.

rob - 8-5-2011 at 02:23 PM

capitolkat - the answer is . . YES - the police get to keep your license, at least in La Paz. Article 67 and 68 of the Leyes de Transito de La Paz state:

"ARTÍCULO 67.- Los conductores de vehículos de motor que cometan
alguna infracción, tienen la obligación de presentar a los Agentes de la
Policía de Tránsito su respectiva licencia de conducir y la tarjeta de
circulación del vehículo y una vez levantada la Infracción le serán devueltos
los documentos presentados.

ARTÍCULO 68.- Cuando se recoja una licencia conforme lo establece
la fracción I del artículo 64 del presente Reglamento, deberá remitirse a la Dirección, para que le sea entregada al conductor una vez que haya liquidado la multa y se registre la infracción para su control y efectos estadísticos."

Run em through Babelfish or similar if your Spanish is equivalent to mine.
(with acknowledgement to Judith P)

sancho - 8-5-2011 at 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
I always carry a laminated color copy of my DL.......good throwaway insurance. Never give up the original.

Good info, I'm going employ that. I was under the impression
a Mex Cop cannot keep a foreigners license, could be
totally wrong though

shari - 8-5-2011 at 03:26 PM

yup....they keep your license till the fine has been paid...normal procedure here too.

JESSE - 8-5-2011 at 03:54 PM

The Police CAN'T take away your drivers licence, the drivers licence is considered private property, and thus, any police oficer that takes your drivers licence, is technically stealing. In most states in Mexico, this practice has been banned because its unconstitutional. A few times cops here in La Paz have tried to take my drivers licence, and i have made it very clear i would inmediately sue him personally for robbery.

David K - 8-5-2011 at 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
The Police CAN'T take away your drivers licence, the drivers licence is considered private property, and thus, any police oficer that takes your drivers licence, is technically stealing. In most states in Mexico, this practice has been banned because its unconstitutional. A few times cops here in La Paz have tried to take my drivers licence, and i have made it very clear i would inmediately sue him personally for robbery.

So what about what rob posted regarding La Paz laws?

JESSE - 8-5-2011 at 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

So what about what rob posted regarding La Paz laws?

La Paz laws are wrong, they are not above the constitution, and this illegal law will soon be eliminated.

David K - 8-5-2011 at 04:04 PM

Thanks Jesse, I thought you might say that!

So, when are you running for mayor of La Paz!? :yes:

DENNIS - 8-5-2011 at 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
A few times cops here in La Paz have tried to take my drivers licence, and i have made it very clear i would inmediately sue him personally for robbery.

Sue him?? What the ***? Is there no element of control over these a-hole cops who treat people like ATMs?
Is there someone in government who cares???

The big boycott is in order.

bajaguy - 8-5-2011 at 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Sue him?? What the flock? Is there no element of control over these a-hole cops who treat people like ATMs?
Is there someone in government who cares???

The big boycott is in order.

I guess that's what happens when nobody has a gun

Bajahowodd - 8-5-2011 at 04:30 PM

Hmmm. I really don't recall seeing any post as to where that happened. So may I assume this happened in the La Paz area?

In any event, I side with Jesse on this. Despite all the wild west theatrics, I just cannot see a cop shooting someone on the public roadway over such an inconsequential matter.

Don't let him hold on to your license. Agree to follow him to the Municipo if he will agree.

All that said, $200 USD for speeding sounds like a pipe dream. I've walked away paying $20 or less a number of times.

woody with a view - 8-5-2011 at 04:41 PM

yeah, but the less calloused have given up their arse enough to keep the rookie cops teething on the hide of the gringo......

DENNIS - 8-5-2011 at 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd
In any event, I side with Jesse on this. Despite all the wild west theatrics, I just cannot see a cop shooting someone on the public roadway over such an inconsequential matter.

"You are under arrest. Get into my vehicle."

What do you do then, Howard?

gnukid - 8-5-2011 at 04:45 PM

No the police can not deprive you of your property or license in Mexico. Write down the laws, understand them, quote them and hand a copy to cops when they go nuts in el centro. Learn the law and practice it often or you will be victimized.

Poor translation of Articulo 14

Article 14. No law shall have retroactive effect to the detriment of any person.

No one shall be deprived of liberty or property, possessions or rights without a trial by courts previously established in which the essential formalities of procedure and in accordance with the laws enacted prior to the event.

Article 16. No one shall be molested in his person, family, home, papers or possessions except by written order of the competent authority, founded in and motivated by legal procedural cause.

Article 21. The investigation of crimes is for the public prosecutor and the police, which operate under the leadership and command that in exercising this function.

The exercise of the criminal courts is for the prosecutors. The law determines the cases in which individuals may engage in criminal proceedings before a judicial authority.

The imposition of penalties, modification and duration are proper and exclusive authority
Judicial.

Compete to the appropriate administrative sanctions for violations of governmental and police regulations, which only consist of fine, arrest up to thirty-six hours or work for the community, but if the offender fails to pay the fine that was imposed, be substituted by the corresponding period of detention, which in any case exceed thirty-six hours.

If the offender of governmental and police regulations was a laborer, worker or employee shall not be liable to a fine greater than the amount of your wages or salary of a day.

Being self-employed, the fine imposed for infringement of governmental and police regulations, shall not exceed the equivalent of one day of admission.

Article 22. Punishments of death, mutilation, infamy, branding, flogging, beating with sticks, torture of any kind, excessive fines, confiscation of property and any other unusual or extreme penalties. Any punishment must be proportionate to the crime and legally sanctioned affected.

--

Artículo 14. A ninguna ley se dará efecto retroactivo en perjuicio de persona alguna.

Nadie podrá ser privado de la libertad o de sus propiedades, posesiones o derechos, sino mediante juicio seguido ante los tribunales previamente establecidos, en el que se cumplan las formalidades esenciales del procedimiento y conforme a las Leyes expedidas con anterioridad al hecho.

Artículo 16. Nadie puede ser molestado en su persona, familia, domicilio, papeles o posesiones, sino en virtud de mandamiento escrito de la autoridad competente, que funde y motive la causa legal del procedimiento.

Artículo 21. La investigación de los delitos corresponde al Ministerio Público y a las policías, las cuales actuarán bajo la conducción y mando de aquél en el ejercicio de esta función.

El ejercicio de la acción penal ante los tribunales corresponde al Ministerio Público. La ley determinará los casos en que los particulares podrán ejercer la acción penal ante la autoridad judicial.

La imposición de las penas, su modificación y duración son propias y exclusivas de la autoridad
Judicial.

Compete a la autoridad administrativa la aplicación de sanciones por las infracciones de los reglamentos gubernativos y de policía, las que únicamente consistirán en multa, arresto hasta por treinta y seis horas o en trabajo a favor de la comunidad; pero si el infractor no pagare la multa que se le hubiese impuesto, se permutará esta por el arresto correspondiente, que no excederá en ningún caso de treinta y seis horas.

Si el infractor de los reglamentos gubernativos y de policía fuese jornalero, obrero o trabajador, no podrá ser sancionado con multa mayor del importe de su jornal o salario de un día.

Tratándose de trabajadores no asalariados, la multa que se imponga por infracción de los reglamentos gubernativos y de policía, no excederá del equivalente a un día de su ingreso.

Artículo 22. Quedan prohibidas las penas de muerte, de mutilación, de infamia, la marca, los azotes, los palos, el tormento de cualquier especie, la multa excesiva, la confiscación de bienes y cualesquiera otras penas inusitadas y trascendentales. Toda pena deberá ser proporcional al delito que sancione y al bien jurídico afectado.

woody with a view - 8-5-2011 at 04:47 PM

gnu is always pulling a rabbit out of his, well, you know!

:cool:

capitolkat - 8-5-2011 at 04:51 PM

Thanks-- I had been lulled to sleep since it was so long ago since I got hassled by a cop. The incident was in La Paz and if someone's Spanish is better than mine what I read in the ordinance is that I must present my license. Nothing about them taking my license and keeping it.

And there is no way I believed the fine was $200 USD. I was probabaly going 62 km per in a 60km zone while three MX plated cars passed me and then the cop on the motorcycle caught up to me as the others sped away. As they say I was stopped for driving while Gringo in a big ole Gringo 97 Suburban.

Bajahowodd - 8-5-2011 at 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

"You are under arrest. Get into my vehicle."

What do you do then, Howard?

Soil my Depends? :lol:

capitolkat - 8-5-2011 at 05:42 PM

jesse, jeese he's my man if Jesse can't do it no one can

shari - 8-5-2011 at 08:01 PM

hmmm....OK, next time the policia try to hold someone's license and the guys argue with the cop...he may give the license back and decommision the vehicle :rolleyes:

kidding.... good to know Jess and Gnu...gracias

MitchMan - 8-5-2011 at 08:25 PM

In La Paz, seems like cops like to take over a corner on 5th de febrero every Friday a few blocks before Forjadores about 2pm and stop everyone in sight obviously looking for mordida. See the same thing on Colossio. Best advice is "don't look them in the eye, when you pass them by". Been stopped only once in the last 4 months since putting the advice to practice.

mtgoat666 - 8-5-2011 at 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sancho

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
I always carry a laminated color copy of my DL.......good throwaway insurance. Never give up the original.

Good info, I'm going employ that. I was under the impression
a Mex Cop cannot keep a foreigners license, could be
totally wrong though

do all foreigners have uber status or diplomatic unity in mexico?
like in the USA we give french citizens greater rights than gringos?
and like in the USA (esp AZ) we give mexicans the least rights of any foreigner?

Standing UP for RIGHT

MrBillM - 8-5-2011 at 08:36 PM

Borrowing a phrase, I would suggest that anyone in that position tell the Cop that "You'll only get my license if you pry it from my Cold, Dead Hand".

THAT should set them straight.

DENNIS - 8-5-2011 at 09:12 PM

I'm going to buy a laminating machine. I'm gonna laminate copies of everything I have in my wallet .

"You want my license, Pudro? Here. Take two."

El Comadante Loco - 8-6-2011 at 12:47 AM

I will just pay the normal $20.00 sleep better and view this as a contribution to the cops Friday night beer fest. Life is way to short to get your panties in bunch over a drivers license. Yes, I have had mine picked up, never went back for it. Went to DMV told them it was lost and got a replacement.
However I just may consider getting a good counterfeit one for Baja or perhaps get a dozen.

DENNIS - 8-6-2011 at 06:39 AM

Just sent for that laminating machine. Card size...20 bucks at Amazon. Big discount....save 60....something like that.

Continuing the problem

bajaguy - 8-6-2011 at 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Comadante Loco
I will just pay the normal $20.00 sleep better and view this as a contribution to the cops Friday night beer fest.

Paying the Mordita just encourages the continuation of the problem.

[Edited on 8-6-2011 by bajaguy]

Paying the Mordita

mcfez - 8-6-2011 at 08:27 AM

Please never do that..it encourages more of the same in the future. This sort of action creates what there is now in Mexico..some cops making the rest look bad.

Either have duplicates made (good idea) ....or head down to the cop station with them.

Bajajorge - 8-6-2011 at 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
I always carry a laminated color copy of my DL.......good throwaway insurance. Never give up the original.

I carry copies of DL, Registration and Insurance. I also have copies of US Passport and FM3, they can only pry the originals out of my cold dead fingers.

JoeJustJoe - 8-6-2011 at 09:44 AM

Paying the Mordita

Just say no. Once a corrupt Mexican cop figures you won't pay him a bribe. He'll usually let you walk. However, sometimes they sweat you a little, and if you can't hold out or rather do something else. Then I see no problem paying the bribe if you bargain it down to something small like $20 dollars, especially if you did something illegal like running a stop, speeding, or even were drinking too much, although if you were drinking too much. $20 dollars won't get you off the hook.

Now if you belong to a forum you'll run into many members that tell you that they stood up to a corrupt Mexican cop, but you don't know if it's true. Sometimes I wonder why corrupt Mexican cops even bother to shake down Americans from all the reports I hear from Americans claiming they didn't pay a bribe. Yeah, right.

The truth is most Americans don't stand up to the corrupt cops, and some Americans are pulling out the " mordita" before the cop even asks. So what's a cop to do when they have a shaking American offering $50 dollars to be left alone?

The good think at least in Tijuana. The shakedowns from corrupt TJ cops is way down, and has been down since Hank Rhon stopped being mayor.

Katiejay99 - 8-6-2011 at 10:05 AM

You know Joe, I just have to take exception to your post. Why in the world would you think that we are NOT standing up to the cops? I don't pay bribes - period. Yea, I get stopped every now and then and only once was it for a good reason (I paid at the station). When people pay or offer bribes, it hurts every one of us who live here (not just foreigners).

And.... "standing up" to them means that I am very nice and respectful and tell them to lead the way and I will settle at the station. The "bad" cops of course, don't want to do that, so they give you a "verbal warning" (always respectful) and leave.

[Edited on 8-6-2011 by Katiejay99]

Hey Joe...

mcfez - 8-6-2011 at 10:28 AM

"....Sometimes I wonder why corrupt Mexican cops even bother to shake down Americans from all the reports I hear from Americans claiming they didn't pay a bribe. Yeah, right.

:lol:

I have to wonder that too!

Back in 88-89...leaving the Sacto Clubs......I ventured out to San Francisco to do my dream...open a club in The City. Found a site that was great.......put down the ol $ on it......Then I found out it would take up to two years to get all the proper permits! Let's see....18,000 per month for two years, returns zero!

After a few lawyers, a lobbyist...we finally hired a "expeditor" ....got the 17 licenses within 30 days......at a real cost. Was it a bribe? I dunno

Around the corner

bajaguy - 8-6-2011 at 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Katiejay99
You know Joe, I just have to take exception to your post. Why in the world would you think that we are NOT standing up to the cops? I don't pay bribes - period. Yea, I get stopped every now and then and only once was it for a good reason (I paid at the station). When people pay or offer bribes, it hurts every one of us who live here (not just foreigners).

And.... "standing up" to them means that I am very nice and respectful and tell them to lead the way and I will settle at the station. The "bad" cops of course, don't want to do that, so they give you a "verbal warning" (always respectful) and leave.

[Edited on 8-6-2011 by Katiejay99]

And no, don't go around the corner with the police. If they want to write you a ticket, let them write it. If where you are stopped constitutes a traffic hazard, pull into a PEMEX or a store parking lot.

sancho - 8-6-2011 at 04:46 PM

Anyone find the Older they get, the less they encounter
Mex traffic stops? I sure do. I agree with the notion that
MOST EVERY GRINGO tourist, except for the few on this
board would have the Mordida out of their wallet before
the Cop reached their vehicle. I could see the quivering
weekend US Tourist asking how much does the Ticket cost
and could you take this $ and pay the Ticket for me? I frequent San Felipe which
knock on madera, Mexicali Cops don't seem the have the
same lust for Mordida as TJ Cops do.
Wonder if these Menas's could tell a copy of a DL from an
original?

Bajahowodd - 8-6-2011 at 05:38 PM

No question that there's a form of profiling involved. Your age is just one, if they actually saw who they were stopping before they did. In my opinion, your vehicle is crucial. Not just the type, but the color, and what it may be conspicuously carrying.

Just thinking that someone driving an older sedan not painted red, would be less likely to be "attacked", than someone driving a raised SUV with flames on the fenders.

Katiejay99 - 8-6-2011 at 06:16 PM

You know, you may have a point there. When I used to drive my red 1990 Cadillac, I used to get stopped. Now I have a black truck, tinted windows and loud mufflers - they haven't even looked twice since I got it.

Bob H - 8-7-2011 at 09:41 AM

My first couple of encounters with Baja cops, I paid the mordida. Never, ever, since at least 1986 have I ever offered to pay mordida. Let them sweat it out while eventually letting me go so they can get to their next target! My last speeding ticket, the cop told me the fine was 4,000 pesos. What? Are you kidding me? What a joke... I asked him to escort me to the police station and he let me go.

oladulce - 8-7-2011 at 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
Good reason to keep your old, expired license from NOB. Hand that to them instead...

We tried that one when stopped last year during the height of the Constitucion problems . He took one look at the expired license and said "this one is no good" with the expression like "ah,ha! Now I've got them".

Wooo had to quickly back-pedal with "oops, here is the current one" and then they played tug of war because he refused to surrender the real one to the cop. We were eventually on our way with the license because he had told us that the cop shop was closed and Wooo said he would only had it over at the station and it came to a stand-off. Not worth his effort for a false infraction.

My friend was pulled over for not wearing his seatbelt in Cd C and the cop took his license and told him to go to the station. He waited in line for a while with about 10 other people and the cop arrived with a pocket full of licenses. He gave them to the judge who returned them after they each paid their fine.
Right or wrong, that seems to be the procedure there too.

Good idea about the laminated copy. :light:

sancho - 8-7-2011 at 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

do all foreigners have uber status or diplomatic unity in mexico?

You got me there, can't answer that, partly because I can't
understand your ?
Is it Diplomatic Unity? or Immunity? Nice try, better luck next time. As for profiling, yes I stopped driving the
VW Bus, with surfboards, and open Coronas a while back
probably saved me some pesos

woody with a view - 8-7-2011 at 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sancho

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

do all foreigners have uber status or diplomatic unity in mexico?

not to mention the clouds of smoke coming out the windows.... :light:

sancho - 8-7-2011 at 12:06 PM

I had a 68' Panel VW, wish I still had it. I can remember being
searched more than once in Mex, they would leave
shaking their heads, talking to themselves t after finding nada

MitchMan - 8-7-2011 at 02:42 PM

Got stopped again in La Paz by two female police yesterday on Septiembre 16th street. Nothing was apparently wrong, they wanted to check my registration to see if it was current. Upon verifying that it was current, they then asked me for my drivers license. I showed them a copy, and they said that they wanted to see the original. I told them that all my original everythings were at my house. They looked at me for 5 seconds, then sent me on my way.

Not looking at them in the eye didn't work because it was their intent to stop each and every vehicle they could. Not a selective process, an all inclusive comprehensive fishing process.

Dinero!