BajaNomad - My Erik Deja Vu Experience

My Erik Deja Vu Experience

Lobsterman - 8-8-2011 at 10:00 PM

For over 40 years I use to camp out and fish the waters of the Sea of Cortez on both sides (use to live in Scottsdale and now San Diego). Sometime around the Year 2000 three of my buddies and I got on a San Felipe charter boat another work aquaintance scheduled in July. I got our group there early i believe on a sunday for a late afternoon or early evening departure. I snuck on the boat early uninvited and went to find us a cabin. My best friend was over 70 at the time and needed ac power to run his sleep apnea mask. When it came time to get on the boat, I told my buds to carry the luggage cuz I was going as fast as I could straight for the prime cabin forward with 4 bunks, two a/c units, and lots of storage. The captain delayed our departure cuz he said some important govt officials were a last minute addition. WTF. The boat was already at capacity. Finally the four officials arrived. The captain came to me and said that we would have to move cuz the officials wanted our cabin. By now all the good cabins were taken. I told the captain he could have the cabin but we wanted our money back and off this boat. After a bunch of evil stares and words I did not understand he went and picked on another gringo group who had the next best cabin. Those four gringos moved into the worst 2-man cabins on the boat both without a/c or power. I'm thinking we're off to a bad start. I'm use to being into control of my environment, therefore I was a bit uneasy about this boat and the captain.

Late afternoon we departed. About midnight I wake up to a rocking boat. I look out the window and see us surfing down 30+ foot waves in 60 mph winds heading due south. Turns out there was a high pressure as usual in the west but a hurricane off Cabo. Thus all the wind was venturing down the SOC causing these hugh swells. I could not believe my eyes. How could a captain miss this weather report? Later I found out the Navy told him not to depart but he did anyway cuz he did not want to return about $15,000 in our money. Fortunently for us the waves were straight down hill. I got everyone up cuz nobody from the crew alerted us to anything. 30 minutes later the boat turned to the starboard and tried to make it inside Gonzaga Bay. I did not know we were trying to make it to that bay but figured he was looking for a safe haven. I was swearing at myself for getting my close friends into this situation. I figured the old man was toast if we did not make it and it was my fault. No life vest, no notice from the crew, nothing. I woke up some of the other guys just incase we had to jump ship. For some reason I never thought to ask about life vests. Another mistake I made. Any way we made it safely inside the Gonzaga Bay where we anchored for 3 days of our 7 day adventure. 6" bay bass is all I could catch during that time but we were alive to experience another day. Finally the waves and winds subsided and off we went south. Cuz of the lost time we only made it to Refugio Bay at the north end of La Guardia Island (north of LA Bay) and spent 3 days catching small 1-2 lb grouper.

During that hectic time I swore to myself if I get out of this predicament I will never, I repeat NEVER let a mexican control my destiny again. I"ve had few trips down there since to Conception Bay, LA Bay and La Salina but the mexican experience and allure has never been the same as when I was an adventurous kid. I have not been back since 2005 due to the decrease in fishing and the security issues. My only mexican experience now is taking my 21' fishing boat to the Coronado Islands or outside tuna areas. This year I do not even do that cuz the fish are gone. Those tuna pens are catching all the local bait fish to feed the 50 or so bluefin grow-out pens at Coronados and just north of Ensenada. The mexican navy is now requiring all boats to have mexican liability insurance from a mexican company and each person MUST have a passport. Rumor is the korean owners of the pens do not want us catching their bluefin and using the navy to enforce their way.

For 25 years I dreamed about retiring in the Mulege area and fish the waters daily and lie about what I caught at the local watering hole. Now all I do since I retired in March is travel the USA (the Redneck Riviera), play Torrey Pines golf course 3 times a week and fish 2-3 day a week locally. Look how many thousands of dollars that is not going south of San Diego yearly from me and I'm only one person.

Oh by the way the San Felipe boat was called,
The Erik.

bajamigo - 8-8-2011 at 10:32 PM

This story leaves me speechless. It's sad how this experience changed the course of your life.

jakecard - 8-8-2011 at 10:33 PM

You poor man. What a contemptibly self-absorbent post.

But hey, at least you are golfing three-times a week at Torrey Pines, which in itself carries some redemptive value, right?

Jake

Skipjack Joe - 8-8-2011 at 10:40 PM

Well, this is a very negative report about many aspects of baja fishing. But you really can't blame the outfit for the storm that came up and ruined the trip. That's fishing. You adjust. There are also times when things turn out better than you actually planned.

That's just one part of your report. There are many others. But it's amazing how people are willing to forget everything else if the fishing is real good.

I say continue with your old Mulege dreams and take the good with the bad.

David K - 8-8-2011 at 10:45 PM

Thanks Lobsterman for sharing... it is a scary thought indeed.

From what I read, many or most of those on the sinking Erik have been on it before... so it must have been acceptable enough to go again... too bad!

Marc - 8-9-2011 at 06:55 AM

I wonder if the captain in your story was the same incompetent cowardly fool who was at the helm July 3?

Lobsterman - 8-9-2011 at 07:29 AM

I do miss my old experiences in Mexico. Times were very different back in the day and have changed progressively for the worst since. I was planning on fishing Mag Bay this October. Fishing those mangroves for snook has been on my life's "Bucket List". But I have since cancelled out due to the many reasons I've talked about in the past, mainly lack of security. When I was young and poor I was fearless in Mexico. Now as a grey hair I'm a target in a much more non-secure environment. I want to enjoy my retirement and not want to constantly be aware of who is the good guy or the bad guy. I can no longer tell them apart in Mexico.

I mainly posted on BN my past Erik experience for the families of those who lost love ones due to the sinking of the Erik. I felt the chances of them reading it on BN is better than other websites. I wanted to tell the families the same event happened before. Plus others who read BN should be aware of what you are getting into each time you rent a Mexican fishing vessel and take necessary precautions. I do not give two chits what anyone has to say about me on BN. These type of websites are for unaltered facts about Mexico so the reader can be aware, make his own decisions and not enter Mexico clueless.

I remember one time back in 1984 I went deep sea fishing out of the Old Mill in San Quentin. I was with my brother and 60 year old mother at the time. We went out towards San Martin Island with Jose Flores in his 22' commercial panga. He had no radio, fishfinder, just a compass he would float in a bowl of water and his watch (no gps in those days). The seas were smooth 10' swells at 20 second intervals and no wind to speak of. So we would ride up this hill, the bow would come out of the water at the peak and surf down the backside of the swell. After an hour and a half in a dense fog he said drop you rockcod lines. It was about 400 ft down there and we caught 3 ft lizzardfish. Biggest I've ever seen since by a lot. Jose said wind up and we made a move of about 5 minutes. Next drop was on the reef and we had nonstop catching large rockcod, lingcod and black sea bass (all broke our 50lb line). It was an amazing navigational feat. Jose did this for a living. I was not worried at the time about our safety. I did this many times in those days of old while fishing in Mexico since 1965. That's their fishing culture and safety standards. The Erik was no different.

Lobsterman...

Dave - 8-9-2011 at 08:47 AM

Did you pay in pesos or dollars? :rolleyes:

J.P. - 8-9-2011 at 09:03 AM

Did you come to Baja because of the avalibility of good fishing or because it was cheappppppppp. you usually get what you pay for in this world.

Skipjack Joe - 8-9-2011 at 09:36 AM

Thanks for your posts, lobsterman. That recent boat tragedy will be a lesson for many of us who fish baja regularly. I don't think many will venture out any longer without their own life vests.

Lobsterman - 8-9-2011 at 10:13 AM

I went to mexico for the fishing and the adventure. I never found mexico particularily cheappppppper than the USA. So I did not go down there to save $ but to take advantage of their tremendous fisheries on both sides of the SOC. My last times down at Mulege & LA Bay, the fishing sizes, types of fish and numbers had steadily declined from the 70s. After the Erik experience I always towed my boat down so I could have more control of my environment. But due to the lack of fish and the cost of fuel, the cost of mexican insurance on boat, trailer and truck as well as the on-the-water-mexican liability insurance on the boat cost over a $1000 for a 10 day trip where you might get on the water but three days was just not worth it any more to me. Not to mention the E-Ticket ride down there towing an 8' wide boat.

The only extra I pay now to fish in San Diego since i own a boat and house is about $20 in gas and sometimes $30 for live bait. It's a cost vs benefit thing.

But that's just me. Baja is fondly etched into my memory as having some of the best days of my life as I was growing up. You youngsters missed out on quite an experience in simipler times. It's just not for me now. I follow this board daily and am continually looking for things to get better in my mine's eye so I can experience a few more good fishing days there. I'm an old college buddy of John Ireland (he was at my 1978 wedding) and have yet to take advantage of his Rancho Leanardo fishing resort. Another thing on my bucket list. In fact i remember when John started his place in the middle of nowhere. We all thought he was in the sun too long down there. John did ok for himself.

Pescador - 8-9-2011 at 11:15 AM

It is terrible that the group on the Erik thought they were being well taken care of with proper amounts of lifejackets, professional crew, etc., etc., but the stark reality is that the boat was poorly run, did not have any kind of safety standards, and suffered from incompetence on part of the owners and captain.
But there is another side to this story: I have retired and moved to Mexico full time because I could not wait to get out of the United States where the government thinks that they have the right and duty to regulate every small piece of my life and especially my enjoyment. They want approved life jackets, approved insurance, strict limits and non-fishing areas, increased taxes and costs that they pass everytime that I turn around, and probably want me to share the catch with those that were too lazy to get off of their butts and go fishing.
I watch the local fisherman go out every day with no radios, no electrical equipment, no lifejackets, and usually no extra gas or paddles. They ply the water every day in good water and bad and with all of the fishermen going out every night for squid and during the day for other fish, I only know of one death that happened on the boat in the last 10 years or so. I find it amazing that fathers take out their sons at a very early age and no thought of a life jacket or flotation devices.

In the US we would call that irresponsible and want to report the whole bunch to the government, but here it is a fact of life and plays out every day on the water. They do watch out for each other and it is common to see a panga pull another panga in to harbor.

So, the system works for me as I understand that I have to take responsibility for my own actions, watch the weather and sea, look out for my peers, and make my own decisions about whether to go or not. And yes, we still catch a whopping lot of fish.

alofrisco - 8-9-2011 at 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
I only know of one death that happened on the boat in the last 10 years or so. I find it amazing that fathers take out their sons at a very early age and no thought of a life jacket or flotation devices.

In the US we would call that irresponsible and want to report the whole bunch to the government, but here it is a fact of life and plays out every day on the water

Would you get on a Mexican airliner if you knew the pilots had the same attitude?

Just because you know of only one dead fisherman in 10 years means little. Many die every year that you don't know about. It is one of the most dangerous professions in Mexico. This is just an example of a naive person thinking his own limited personal knowledge is somehow representative of the greater reality.

Link to news

MMc - 8-9-2011 at 02:30 PM

Quote:

So, the system works for me as I understand that I have to take responsibility for my own actions, watch the weather and sea, look out for my peers, and make my own decisions about whether to go or not. And yes, we still catch a whopping lot of fish.

Pescador gets to the hart of the when he sums up. We all make our choices and live or die by them. Some people don't look around and ask the hard questions.
Went on the Eric 1 time, swore we never would do it again. I slept on deck and always had a ditch bag and pfd near by. When we booked the trip we knew it might not be the safest thing. The electrical fire on board just after we left port was just the beginning. That boat has been a POS for a long time. The next time we booked a trip out of SF it was on a better boat, that we drove down to check out before hand.
Lobsterman not going south is his choice based on his observation and the risk as he understand it. Me choosing to go is based on the level of risk I willing to take.
alofrisco, I would assume that the pilots want to get home alive. I would have no problem walking off if I didn't think it was safe.
MMc

mcfez - 8-9-2011 at 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
It is terrible that the group on the Erik thought they were being well taken care of with proper amounts of lifejackets, professional crew, etc., etc., but the stark reality is that the boat was poorly run, did not have any kind of safety standards, and suffered from incompetence on part of the owners and captain.
But there is another side to this story: I have retired and moved to Mexico full time because I could not wait to get out of the United States where the government thinks that they have the right and duty to regulate every small piece of my life and especially my enjoyment. They want approved life jackets, approved insurance, strict limits and non-fishing areas, increased taxes and costs that they pass everytime that I turn around, and probably want me to share the catch with those that were too lazy to get off of their butts and go fishing.
I watch the local fisherman go out every day with no radios, no electrical equipment, no lifejackets, and usually no extra gas or paddles. They ply the water every day in good water and bad and with all of the fishermen going out every night for squid and during the day for other fish, I only know of one death that happened on the boat in the last 10 years or so. I find it amazing that fathers take out their sons at a very early age and no thought of a life jacket or flotation devices.

In the US we would call that irresponsible and want to report the whole bunch to the government, but here it is a fact of life and plays out every day on the water. They do watch out for each other and it is common to see a panga pull another panga in to harbor.

So, the system works for me as I understand that I have to take responsibility for my own actions, watch the weather and sea, look out for my peers, and make my own decisions about whether to go or not. And yes, we still catch a whopping lot of fish.

Make room Pescador....I'm with you.

Bajahowodd - 8-9-2011 at 03:42 PM

Maybe it's just me, but the initial post just reeked of eliteism. I won't call it racism per se, but.

Just seems to me that inasmuch as I've done the Mexican thing for over thirty years, part of the lure of Mexico was that it actually did have a sense of danger.

Caveat Emptor. If you go to Mexico, you have to have your eyes open. Amybe even more in the past than today, you had to realize that the was a third world country that had a great deal of poverty. Not quite so much today.

But nevertheless, it ain't the USA. No value judgement to follow. I have visited Mexico for over thirty years and continue to do so. I realize that it is Mexico. It is not the United States. Again, no value judgement.

DESTNY

El Comadante Loco - 8-9-2011 at 04:47 PM

Lobsterman, I take offense to your statement "During that hectic time I swore to myself if I get out of this predicament I will never, I repeat NEVER let a Mexican control my destiny again." This type of statement is inflammatory, demeaning, and some what typical of the ugly American. ' What is your need to highly emphasise " I repeat" and NEVER in CAPS....'

Are you implying that all of us MEXICANS are incompetent and should not be trusted in positions of a critical nature. What a negative stereotype you have painted us with.. Shame on you>> I assure we have no interested in controlling your destiny.
I for one have placed my care in the hands of very competent individuals of different racial and ethnic background.
An Asian operated on my back, an African American took care of my skin infection, a white woman served as my cardiologist and I have been treated by numerous MEXICAN doctors and dentist. Oh I even flew on an airplane piloted by a MEXICAN imagine letting a MEXICAN control my
DESTINLY.

I am truly sorry that the experience you had on the ERIK has thwarted you capacity to truly enjoy Baja and it's people.
Such is loss is regrettable. I am sure you a sensitive and understanding man but sometimes the words we choose are not the most appropriate, welcoming and relationship building. Perhaps you were not even aware that your choice of words could be found to be offensive or perhaps you don't give a damm.

Enjoy Amigo

ELC

J.P. - 8-9-2011 at 04:48 PM

Personal safety.

Most people that come to baja come for the unique journey into the not too distant past knowing full well the dangers that lurke here , But with the mentality that big brother is going to take care of them. It aint going to happen down here folks. several years ago headed north from Loretto we stopped for the night in our rv at the abandoned Pemex at the Bay of La turn off . early the next morning we made coffee and headed north, about half way between the place where we spent the night and Catavina we come upon a wreck. The driver apperantly went to sleep and missed a curve he was ejected through the back window of the vehicle about half of his skull was ripped off. I assesed the location and the early hour I made the decision to get a blanket from the rv. and covered the young mam up and sat and held his hand until he died . because ou the remotness of the location cell phones were of no use and the distance to a phone he would have died before help could come. it may sound hard But too often thats the fact of life down here.
I guess if there is a point to this it would be about taking the responsibility for ones safety because all too often thats all you have. whether you be on land or water.

Lobsterman...Lobsterman...come in Lobsterman

vgabndo - 8-9-2011 at 05:05 PM

I judge you have a little accountability to deal with there noobie.

The commander is spot on!

Marc - 8-9-2011 at 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Comadante Loco
Lobsterman, I take offense to your statement "During that hectic time I swore to myself if I get out of this predicament I will never, I repeat NEVER let a Mexican control my destiny again." This type of statement is inflammatory, demeaning, and some what typical of the ugly American. ' What is your need to highly emphasise " I repeat" and NEVER in CAPS....'

Are you implying that all of us MEXICANS are incompetent and should not be trusted in positions of a critical nature. What a negative stereotype you have painted us with.. Shame on you>> I assure we have no interested in controlling your destiny.
I for one have placed my care in the hands of very competent individuals of different racial and ethnic background.
An Asian operated on my back, an African American took care of my skin infection, a white woman served as my cardiologist and I have been treated by numerous MEXICAN doctors and dentist. Oh I even flew on an airplane piloted by a MEXICAN imagine letting a MEXICAN control my
DESTINLY.

I am truly sorry that the experience you had on the ERIK has thwarted you capacity to truly enjoy Baja and it's people.
Such is loss is regrettable. I am sure you a sensitive and understanding man but sometimes the words we choose are not the most appropriate, welcoming and relationship building. Perhaps you were not even aware that your choice of words could be found to be offensive or perhaps you don't give a damm.

Enjoy Amigo

ELC

Well I guess at least your heart is working OK :lol:

BajaBlanca - 8-9-2011 at 05:12 PM

I agree that maybe there was a bad choice of words ???? I am sure none of us wants to be purposely put in harm's way and none of us would knowingly travel on a verifiably unsafe boat. no matter what country. no matter what nationality the boat captain was.

J.P. you did the right thing by making that man's last moments on Earth better. Amazing and thanks, even tho' I did not know him.

furthermore, I have met a fair number of americans who keep moving and moving precisely to stay in the Mexico they remember of years past. away from foreigners since they truly want the comeraderie of mexicanos vs the American way of life. One guy moved away from the east cape cause he told me ( I have never been there) that he felt like he was living in an LA suburb. boy - did I have a good laugh at that !!

and lastly, depending on where you live it is so darn safe here. small town Mexico is safer than I felt in certain parts of san diego.

but yeah - the fishing is horrible all over Baja !!!! (noooooooooooooooot)

grace59 - 8-9-2011 at 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lobsterman
Now as a grey hair I'm a target in a much more non-secure environment. I want to enjoy my retirement and not want to constantly be aware of who is the good guy or the bad guy. I can no longer tell them apart in Mexico.

Lobsterman, I mean no disrespect by this, but must say that it is important that you NOT feel safe just because you are enjoying your retirement here in the USA rather than spending time in Mexico. There are plenty here in the the states that will take advantage of your "grey hair" status. This can happen while you are on the road or even in the "safety" of your own home!! Thinking you are safe because you are in the US of A is foolish if it allows you to put your guard down. My friends think me stupid for all the time that I spend in Baja, but it is my mantra to "Be careful, not fearful!" That is how I live wherever I am!!! I hope someday you feel safe enought to revisit some of those great Baja memories in person! :yes:

And this wave did this....

mcfez - 8-9-2011 at 06:30 PM

We're talking about safety of boats and such...risks...well this just came onto the www a few minutes ago. Shows that no matter where you go...how careful you try to be....stuff does happen!

http://video.yahoo.com/editorspicks-12135647/featured-243063...

[Edited on 8-10-2011 by mcfez]

Marc - 8-9-2011 at 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mcfez
We're talking about safety of boats and such...risks...well this just came onto the www a few minutes ago. Shows that no matter where you go...how careful you try to be....stuff does happen!

http://video.yahoo.com/editorspicks-12135647/featured-243063...

[Edited on 8-10-2011 by mcfez]

Sh**t does happen!

There is a Huge Disconnect of Logic Here

Gypsy Jan - 8-9-2011 at 08:01 PM

lobsterman mentions experiences in several areas of Baja, but only details his negative experience on the Erik.

He sets that one experience up to promote his choice of lifestyle as a dilettante retiree moving between Scottsdale, AZ and the Torrey Pines golf course in San Diego.

What a useless waste of valuable human time.

Lobsterman obviously was interested enough to become involved in the Baja experience.

Why not use that wisdom and experience to contribute toe the communities that gave you so much enjoyment?

Just my humble opinion.

GJ

J.P. - 8-9-2011 at 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca
I agree that maybe there was a bad choice of words ???? I am sure none of us wants to be purposely put in harm's way and none of us would knowingly travel on a verifiably unsafe boat. no matter what country. no matter what nationality the boat captain was.

J.P. you did the right thing by making that man's last moments on Earth better. Amazing and thanks, even tho' I did not know him.

furthermore, I have met a fair number of americans who keep moving and moving precisely to stay in the Mexico they remember of years past. away from foreigners since they truly want the comeraderie of mexicanos vs the American way of life. One guy moved away from the east cape cause he told me ( I have never been there) that he felt like he was living in an LA suburb. boy - did I have a good laugh at that !!

and lastly, depending on where you live it is so darn safe here. small town Mexico is safer than I felt in certain parts of san diego.

but yeah - the fishing is horrible all over Baja !!!! (noooooooooooooooot)

Blancha I know too well what you are saying about moveing I have lived here in Punta Banda for almost 8 years and as well as I love the location and my house. I am soooooooo sickkkkkkkk of these pain in the assssssss gringos I would leave here in a heart beat and move yo the most remote village I could find , :yes:

Oddjob - 8-9-2011 at 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
lobsterman mentions experiences in several areas of Baja, but only details his negative experience on the Erik.

He sets that one experience up to promote his choice of lifestyle as a dilettante retiree moving between Scottsdale, AZ and the Torrey Pines golf course in San Diego.

What a useless waste of valuable human time.

Lobsterman obviously was interested enough to become involved in the Baja experience.

Why not use that wisdom and experience to contribute toe the communities that gave you so much enjoyment?

Just my humble opinion.

GJ

I'm sure that one scary trip on the Erik wasn't the only reason that Lobsterman changed his views about Baja. Unless you have your head buried deep in the sand or you are trying to sell your property to some fool so that you can move back north, you would have to admit that the Baja that we all knew in the past is not the same any longer. Everyone's risk factor is different so don't be so quick to judge someone who's views may be different than yours.

Good Guys, Bad Guys and Relative Risks on the Road

MrBillM - 8-9-2011 at 09:04 PM

While it's true that one is not necessarily in more or less danger from Bad people traveling North or South of the border, it is also true that in the U.S. the options for defending against those elements are more to your advantage.

In the U.S., even driving down to the local convenience store, I most often have a weapon near at hand. While in many cases, said carry is not legal, the consequences of running afoul of the law are insignificant in comparison to that of NEEDING that option and not having it available.

However, in Mexico, being caught with such, results in SEVERE consequences which even I no longer wish to chance.

Barry A. - 8-9-2011 at 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
While it's true that one is not necessarily in more or less danger from Bad people traveling North or South of the border, it is also true that in the U.S. the options for defending against those elements are more to your advantage.

In the U.S., even driving down to the local convenience store, I most often have a weapon near at hand. While in many cases, said carry is not legal, the consequences of running afoul of the law are insignificant in comparison to that of NEEDING that option and not having it available.

However, in Mexico, being caught with such, results in SEVERE consequences which even I no longer wish to chance.

Amen, Bill.

Skipjack Joe - 8-9-2011 at 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oddjob

Everyone's risk factor is different so don't be so quick to judge someone who's views may be different than yours.

True, and don't forget that risk factors change with age. They get bigger. Plans you make as a young man often don't seem appropriate as you age.

What I'm saying is that it may have little to do with how baja has changed. It may all be about how the man has changed.

shari - 8-10-2011 at 07:32 AM

gracias comandanate loco for expressing how lobsterman's post was inflamatory to some. Yes, parts of mexico are more dangerous now...but life in the villages, as Blanca points out, is very very safe. The most dangerous thing here is that the highways are in better shape so people are driving waaaaaaaay to fast now and deaths have increased from accidents.

Ask many canucks and they will tell you that the scary part of coming to baja is having to drive through the states.

oh and the fishing is still great

Barry A. - 8-10-2011 at 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
gracias comandanate loco for expressing how lobsterman's post was inflamatory to some. Yes, parts of mexico are more dangerous now...but life in the villages, as Blanca points out, is very very safe. The most dangerous thing here is that the highways are in better shape so people are driving waaaaaaaay to fast now and deaths have increased from accidents.

Ask many canucks and they will tell you that the scary part of coming to baja is having to drive through the states.

oh and the fishing is still great

"------the states" ??????? Shari, surely you jest?????? Maybe a few places in huge cities, but "the states"???? Sure not my impression.

Persception is reality, they say. :rolleyes:

Barry

shari - 8-10-2011 at 08:26 AM

I'm serious Barry....driving down I-5 to get to baja is nerve racking and there are some big cities ya gotta drive through...stop for gas etc...when many canucks reach baja they breath a huge sigh of relief.

David K - 8-10-2011 at 08:34 AM

While I don't have an un-natural fears living and driving here in the USA, I am 'happier' when I cross the border into Mexico... and get really excited when I am south of El Rosario or south of San Felipe... then, leaving the pavement is pure bliss. :cool:

In Mexico...

Dave - 8-10-2011 at 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
However, in Mexico, being caught with such, results in SEVERE consequences which even I no longer wish to chance.

There isn't anything which can't be negotiated. There are severe penalties listed for all sorts of things that are rarely enforced or most likely, bargained away.

Personally. I am more concerned with carrying and using weapons to defending myself in California than Mexico.

Barry A. - 8-10-2011 at 09:41 AM

Wow, guys (& gals), that is interesting. Thanks for your observations.

Been traveling to Mexico for over 50 years, and the only time I ever gave a "sigh of relief" upon entering Mexico was when my wife and I left Belize into Mexico via bus after a month of backpacking around the wild country of Belize. Quintana Roo was truly a dream state to be in after Belize City, and the attitude of the people was so nice in Mexico.

Having had some real problems with the police in Baja CA when a very young man (even tho I kinda deserved it), I guess I never quite got over that, and it is the Police in Baja and the lack of "rule of law" that really spook me.

Like David, I do give a sigh of relief when I break free of the "Ensenada affect" on the highway south, and especially when reaching south of San Quintin, and away from "civilization" and predatary police, but I am still very alert always when in Mexico (as well as the USA).

I have never been nervous in the USA, anywhere or any time, even when walking a police beat in the poorer sections of San Diego back in the early '60's, and during my entire 30 years law enforcement career with the Dept. of Interior as a Special Ops guy, and Ranger. Sometimes very alert, but never really nervous.

Like I said, it is all perception.

Barry

Never Nervous ?

MrBillM - 8-10-2011 at 01:03 PM

I wonder if that was true of the San Diego Cop the other day ?

Just before ............ ?

El Comadante Loco - 8-10-2011 at 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Comadante Loco
Lobsterman, I take offense to your statement "During that hectic time I swore to myself if I get out of this predicament I will never, I repeat NEVER let a Mexican control my destiny again." This type of statement is inflammatory, demeaning, and some what typical of the ugly American. ' What is your need to highly emphasise " I repeat" and NEVER in CAPS....'

Are you implying that all of us MEXICANS are incompetent and should not be trusted in positions of a critical nature. What a negative stereotype you have painted us with.. Shame on you>> I assure we have no interested in controlling your destiny.
I for one have placed my care in the hands of very competent individuals of different racial and ethnic background.
An Asian operated on my back, an African American took care of my skin infection, a white woman served as my cardiologist and I have been treated by numerous MEXICAN doctors and dentist. Oh I even flew on an airplane piloted by a MEXICAN imagine letting a MEXICAN control my
DESTINY.

I am truly sorry that the experience you had on the ERIK has thwarted you capacity to truly enjoy Baja and it's people.
Such is loss is regrettable. I am sure you a sensitive and understanding man but sometimes the words we choose are not the most appropriate, welcoming and relationship building. Perhaps you were not even aware that your choice of words could be found to be offensive or perhaps you don't give a damm.

Enjoy Amigo

ELC

Lobsterman

Donde Andas?

I would appreciate some type of response, retort, defense, explanation, reaction, acknowledgement, tell me to go to hell or ?????. Perhaps your absence and silence is indicative of your self proclaimed worth and righteousness.

Let's face it "cagaste el palo"

Tu Amigo

ECL

Barry A. - 8-10-2011 at 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM

Not nervous????

I wonder if that was true of the San Diego Cop the other day ?

Just before ............ ?

I suppose I should have said, "not unduly nervous". My wife tells me I am ALWAYS nervous, so again it is a relative statement I suppose.

I am not up on what happened in San Diego, so can't comment.

Barry

wilderone - 8-11-2011 at 10:03 AM

Sounds like being in control of your environment is getting in the way of you being in control of your life. You wanna go fishing at Rancho Leonero, then go. Go fishing out of Mulege in a panga - probably bigger fish than your Erik adventure. Instead of learning lessons, all the wiser for your experience and moving on, you choose to short-change yourself. Dumb. I think you're a lot like others I know who like the many rules and regulations that will ostensibly safeguard them -- against LIFE. That is not being in control of your environment - that is subjugating yourself to the will of others. Did YOU do any homework on the weather forecast during your Erik trip? You know there's a drill on fishing boats as to safety procedures and where the life jackets are - YOU didn't independently find out? You probably could have negotiated a discount after getting kicked out of the best cabin, but you chose to have the Captain bully other fishermen. Do you really think you're in control of your environment? What kind of life is that? You don't want control, you want guaranteed safety - guaranteed by OTHERS. Better work on your bucket list while you're still able.

alofrisco - 8-11-2011 at 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Comadante Loco

Quote:

Originally posted by El Comadante Loco
Lobsterman, I take offense to your statement "During that hectic time I swore to myself if I get out of this predicament I will never, I repeat NEVER let a Mexican control my destiny again." This type of statement is inflammatory, demeaning, and some what typical of the ugly American. ' What is your need to highly emphasise " I repeat" and NEVER in CAPS....'

Are you implying that all of us MEXICANS are incompetent and should not be trusted in positions of a critical nature. What a negative stereotype you have painted us with.. Shame on you>> I assure we have no interested in controlling your destiny.
I for one have placed my care in the hands of very competent individuals of different racial and ethnic background.
An Asian operated on my back, an African American took care of my skin infection, a white woman served as my cardiologist and I have been treated by numerous MEXICAN doctors and dentist. Oh I even flew on an airplane piloted by a MEXICAN imagine letting a MEXICAN control my
DESTINY.

I am truly sorry that the experience you had on the ERIK has thwarted you capacity to truly enjoy Baja and it's people.
Such is loss is regrettable. I am sure you a sensitive and understanding man but sometimes the words we choose are not the most appropriate, welcoming and relationship building. Perhaps you were not even aware that your choice of words could be found to be offensive or perhaps you don't give a damm.

Enjoy Amigo

ELC

El Comadante Loco:

Since you say you are a Mexican and seem to be an educated person on racial sterotyping of Mexicans, I would like your personal opinion on the subject matter of this newspaper article:

http://www.aztecanoticias.com.mx/notas/estados-y-df/66470/su...

Do you think Mexican press has unfairly called these Mexican police racists? By the way, I am sure an astute Mexican like you would know that "Comadante" is really spelled "ComaNdante."

El Comadante Loco - 8-12-2011 at 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alofrisco

Quote:

Originally posted by El Comadante Loco

Quote:

Originally posted by El Comadante Loco
Lobsterman, I take offense to your statement "During that hectic time I swore to myself if I get out of this predicament I will never, I repeat NEVER let a Mexican control my destiny again." This type of statement is inflammatory, demeaning, and some what typical of the ugly American. ' What is your need to highly emphasise " I repeat" and NEVER in CAPS....'

Are you implying that all of us MEXICANS are incompetent and should not be trusted in positions of a critical nature. What a negative stereotype you have painted us with.. Shame on you>> I assure we have no interested in controlling your destiny.
I for one have placed my care in the hands of very competent individuals of different racial and ethnic background.
An Asian operated on my back, an African American took care of my skin infection, a white woman served as my cardiologist and I have been treated by numerous MEXICAN doctors and dentist. Oh I even flew on an airplane piloted by a MEXICAN imagine letting a MEXICAN control my
DESTINY.

I am truly sorry that the experience you had on the ERIK has thwarted you capacity to truly enjoy Baja and it's people.
Such is loss is regrettable. I am sure you a sensitive and understanding man but sometimes the words we choose are not the most appropriate, welcoming and relationship building. Perhaps you were not even aware that your choice of words could be found to be offensive or perhaps you don't give a damm.

Enjoy Amigo

ELC

Alofrisco

Thank you for the accolades, correction and kind works.

I certainly hope that your are not judging me by my typos or misspelling of Comandante.. However I will admit to my typo when registering on Nomads but nonetheless thank you for stating the obvious as I am sure no one else has noticed since you are the fist and it has never been brought to my attention.

You did not interperate the artical correcty.

The folllowing is quoted from the Azteca article:

"Ensenada, BC.- Siete policías municipales pertenecientes a la zona sur de Ensenada, serán suspendidos, tras comprobarse su culpabilidad sobre actos de discriminación, realizados en contra de grupos indígenas"

I have read the article by Azteca and no where did I find the use of word or the charge of racism exhibited toward the indigenous population. Please correct me if I am wrong or missed it. However, the article was clear that there was an investigation going on regarding the charge discrimination and found to be so that the 7 police officers would be suspended.

Now was racism involved could very well be. One can practice discrimination without being racist but that is a fine line. Was the Azteca unfair in their reporting, NO! In fact more needs to be done to stop the injustices suffered by the indigenous peoples of Mexcio as well as thoses all over the world.

Just keep watching the Novelas to how morenos are portrayed against their lighter skinned cousins.

Oh and BTW it's stereotyping not sterotyping but I am sure an educated person such as yourself would know that.

What is more important which will provide us with insight into your persona do you think Azteca's reporting was unfair???

Awaiting your reply!!!

EL Comadante Loco

alofrisco - 8-12-2011 at 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Comadante Loco
You did not interperate the artical correcty.

The folllowing is quoted from the Azteca article:

"Ensenada, BC.- Siete policías municipales pertenecientes a la zona sur de Ensenada, serán suspendidos, tras comprobarse su culpabilidad sobre actos de discriminación, realizados en contra de grupos indígenas"

I have read the article by Azteca and no where did I find the use of word or the charge of racism exhibited toward the indigenous population.

Perhaps if you had a slightly longer attention span and read the very next paragraph in the article, which reads:

"...y en ellas los afectados narran las agresiones e insultos que tuvieron que soportar, por el simple hecho de ser indígenas."

"...and those affected tell of the aggression and insults they endured for the simple fact of being indigenous."

So, here we have these Mexican indians saying they are the target of insults and aggresion simply because they are indians (indigenous), and somehow you have sliced the baloney so thin that you are saying that is not Mexican racism?

You go on to say that, "One can practice discrimination without being racist but that is a fine line." Is it possible that Lobsterman was practicing discrimination against lazy and indolent Mexican business practices and lack of regard for human life without being a racist?

El Comadante Loco - 8-12-2011 at 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alofrisco

Quote:

Now we are getting somewhere in this debate. Is there racism in Mexico absolutely!!! Is there racism in the US, yes.
Should any of this be tolerated, No. Should we take personal responsibility to stamp it out and speak out against stereotyping, prejudice, discrimination and injustices without a doubt. At least we have this out of the way. Wpuld you agree?
You are still misinterpreting the facts as stated by Azteca. Even your own supportive quote does not include the charge of racism. This is your spin and who knows it may be correct: "...and those affected tell of the aggression and insults they endured for the simple fact of being indigenous." this statement supports the charge of discrimination. I am and have been arguing the facts as stated by Azteca. Could the actions of the police and the four other officials have been motivated by racism, yes; however, without first hand knowledge and the results of the pending investigation I can not say with absolute certainty that racism way the primary factor but if it was I hope that all of them are dully brought to justice and held accountable to full extent of the law. I certainly do not support the police practices cite nor minimize the allegations brought against them and other officials.

With regard to Lobsterman and your quote "indolent Mexican business practices" again these the words can be viewed as disparaging and inflammatory. By the use of the word "'practices" it appears that all Mexican business practices are categorized as indolent. I do not have problem with Lobsterman's fears and negative feeling about his experience on the ERIK but why did he have to use the words destiny, NEVER, control and Mexican' to get his point across. it is obvious his words have a very different meaning to us and how we perceive them.
I submit that if he would have said something like I will never let that f.....king captain of the ERIK have control of my destiny.. . We would not be having this debate.
I do not believe that Lobsterman is a racist but he needs good dose of cultural competence..

BTW I support Lobsterman's prerogative to discriminate against the then Captain of the ERIK he has good reason. I do not support his choice to paint all Mexicans with the same brush... Just for the record I have never stated that Lobsterman was racist.

Lobsterman - 8-12-2011 at 05:43 PM

You guys and girls most be bored to death down there in sunny baja to come up with all these hair brained philosphies about something you know nothing about. Why don't you just save some time and aggravation and start another thread about "sunsets or what kind of bug is this?".

I do not post much unless its about fishing or cooking and usually not on this site. I posted this thread after much thought after the sinking of the Erik. It's sinking surfaced some surpressed memories i had about my experience. In my prose to to explain my memory of the event I remember saying (praying to God) or whatever, "if I get out of here I......." That's what I thought at the time. Get over it you knuckle heads. What you want me to lie about what I thought at that moment when I did not know it if we would make it to a safe harbor? Well anyone who knows me knows I wear my emotions and feelings on my shirt sleeve. If someone does not like it tuff chitola. I told you idiots before I do not care one bit what anyone one of you has to say or how you feel about me. You're not my friends and I definately am not looking for your approval on anything.

Again after much thought I started this thread for the families to let them know the Erik operators and owner had put people in jeopardy before and perhaps it could help with the mexican investigation of the Sinking of the Erik.

RIP

El Comadante Loco - 8-12-2011 at 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lobsterman
You guys and girls most be bored to death down there in sunny baja to come up with all these hair brained philosphies about something you know nothing about. Why don't you just save some time and aggravation and start another thread about "sunsets or what kind of bug is this?".

I do not post much unless its about fishing or cooking and usually not on this site. I posted this thread after much thought after the sinking of the Erik. It's sinking surfaced some surpressed memories i had about my experience. In my prose to to explain my memory of the event I remember saying (praying to God) or whatever, "if I get out of here I......." That's what I thought at the time. Get over it you knuckle heads. What you want me to lie about what I thought at that moment when I did not know it if we would make it to a safe harbor? Well anyone who knows me knows I wear my emotions and feelings on my shirt sleeve. If someone does not like it tuff chitola. I told you idiots before I do not care one bit what anyone one of you has to say or how you feel about me. You're not my friends and I definately am not looking for your approval on anything.

Again after much thought I started this thread for the families to let them know the Erik operators and owner had put people in jeopardy before and perhaps it could help with the mexican investigation of the Sinking of the Erik.

RIP

Lobsterman

This knuckle head and idiot thinks it's time to put this thread to bed and move on...

mcfez - 8-13-2011 at 07:29 AM

...."I do not post much unless its about fishing or cooking and usually

Bull. You used to troll me big time. Glad to see most everyone here biting you like sharks.

ELINVESTIG8R - 8-13-2011 at 07:42 AM

Lobsterman the elitist Chicken Coop Groupers have raised their disgusting heads again as they believe their station in life is much higher than the rest of us. Pay them no mind and march on as your station in life is much higher than theirs! They win First Prize!!

Oddjob - 8-13-2011 at 07:52 AM

Lobsterman, you did the right thing exposing the Erik for what it was, a death trap that was operated by those who put no value on others lives. You are correct, the idiots and knuckleheads that tend to dominate this forum aren't your friends and they jump on anyone that makes a negative post about Baja. Thanks for telling the truth.

capt. mike - 8-13-2011 at 09:48 AM

Lobsterman - as i have said before here variously...i have flown for over 30 years privately and otherwise commercially with remembrances for another 20 plus.

I have NEVER been as scared in my life as i have been during a few boat misadventures.
i can't blame you for telling the story - it is not what many want to read here i guess - but hey, if it was YOUR experience you have every right to impart it here.