Gypsy Jan - 8-16-2011 at 07:58 AM
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-atf-gun...
Dave - 8-16-2011 at 01:45 PM
Always thought fast & furious was a good idea who's downfall was in the details. Don't know whether I'd necessarily blame these guys, though. The
guns were gonna get to the cartels...one way or another.
The Devil
MrBillM - 8-16-2011 at 09:57 PM
Is ALWAYS in the Details. And, the Road to Hell is paved with GOOD Ideas ?
Any other Cliches Apply ?
Other than Success (or competency ?) never being a requirement for promotion in Civil Service ?
OH, Yeah.............There's that "Rising ABOVE the level of Incompetency" that seems to be standard in DC.
Woooosh - 10-14-2011 at 04:14 PM
Grenades are now part of this. The cartels LOVE the grenades- who doesn't like big explosions?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/14/earlyshow/main2012...
(CBS News) There's a new twist in the government's "gunwalking" scandal involving an even more dangerous weapon: grenades.
"Gunwalking" subpoena for AG Holder imminent
CBS News investigative correspondent Sharyl Attkisson, who has reported on this story from the beginning, said on "The Early Show" that the
investigation into the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF)'s so-called "Fast and Furious" operation branches out to a case
involving grenades. Sources tell her a suspect was left to traffic and manufacture them for Mexican drug cartels.
Police say Jean Baptiste Kingery, a U.S. citizen, was a veritable grenade machine. He's accused of smuggling parts for as many as 2,000 grenades into
Mexico for killer drug cartels -- sometimes under the direct watch of U.S. law enforcement.
For more on this investigation, visit CBS Investigates.
Law enforcement sources say Kingery could have been prosecuted in the U.S. twice for violating export control laws, but that, each time, prosecutors
in Arizona refused to make a case.
Grenades are weapons-of-choice for the cartels. An attack on Aug. 25 in a Monterrey, Mexico casino killed 53 people.
Sources tell CBS News that, in January 2010, ATF had Kingery under surveillance after he bought about 50 grenade bodies and headed to Mexico. But they
say prosecutors wouldn't agree to make a case. So, as ATF agents looked on, Kingery and the grenade parts crossed the border -- and simply
disappeared.
Six months later, Kingery allegedly got caught leaving the U.S. for Mexico with 114 disassembled grenades in a tire. One ATF agent told investigators
he literally begged prosecutors to keep Kingery in custody this time, fearing he was supplying narco-terrorists, but was again ordered to let Kingery
go.
The prosecutors -- already the target of controversy for overseeing "Fast and Furious," wouldn't comment on the grenades case. U.S. Attorney Dennis
Burke recently resigned and his assistant, Emory Hurley, has been transferred. Sources say Hurley is the one who let Kingery go, saying grenade parts
are "novelty items" and the case "lacked jury appeal."
Attkisson added on "The Early Show" that, in August, Mexican authorities raided Kingery's stash house and factory, finding materials for 1,000
grenades. He was charged with trafficking and allegedly admitted not only to making grenades, but also to teaching cartels how to make them, as well
as helping cartel members convert semi-automatic rifles to fully-automatic. As one source put it: There's no telling how much damage Kingery did in
the year-and-a-half since he was first let go. The Justice Department inspector general is now investigating this, along with "Fast and Furious."
Oggie - 10-14-2011 at 04:25 PM
Emails: Bush-Era Embassy, Prosecutor's Office Approved ATF 'Gun Walking' Tactic
Ryan J. Reilly | October 14, 2011, 5:00PM
As House Oversight Committee Chairman Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) continues to try to pin the flawed "gun walking" tactic employed in Operation Fast and
Furious on the Obama administration, it's becoming increasingly clear that problems with ATF's Phoenix division date back at least into the Bush era.
TPM has obtained the documents relating to another Bush-era ATF operation (on top of Operation Wide Receiver) which deployed the "gun walking" tactic.
The development was first reported by Pete Yost of the Associated Press.
In fact, ATF officials wrote in 2007 that the gun walking tactic had "full approval" of the U.S. Attorney's Office being run by an interim Bush
appointee and that the U.S. Embassy in Mexico was "fully on-board."
Under DOJ policy, illicit arms shipments are supposed to be intercepted whenever possible. But the emails show that just like in Operation Fast and
Furious, official planned to allow guns to "walk" across the border and into Mexico in an attempt to identify traffickers higher up in the operation
(rather than low ranking "straw purchasers," who are difficult to prosecute thanks to the lack of an anti-trafficking gun law).
On Sept. 27, 2007 -- when the Justice Department was reeling from the resignation of former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales -- ATF agents in Phoenix
and Mexico were conducting partial surveillance of suspects who purchased numerous weapons at a federally licensed firearms dealership.
After they watched the group purchase 19 weapons on Sept. 21 and 24 and additional weapons on Sept. 27, they watched as the weapons crossed the border
into Mexico.
"Phoenix AZ ATF agents observed this vehicle commit to the border and reach the Mexican side until it could no longer be seen," ATF assistant director
Carson Carroll wrote in a Sept. 28, 2007 email. "We, the ATF (Mexico) did not get a response from the Mexican side until 20 minutes later, who then
informed us that they did not see the vehicle cross."
A few days later, William Newell -- the ATF official in charge of the Phoenix division -- tried to assure colleagues that everything would be okay.
"I know you have reservations but please rest assured that this will go as planned, as allowed per MLAT (Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty) with Mexico,
with full approval of the USAO (confirmed again late this afternoon), and will have big payoffs for us and the Department in addresing (sic) Mexico's
concerns that we (US) aren't doing enough to address their concerns," Newell wrote in an Oct. 4, 2007 email. "Trust me, I'm with Gov't."
"Wow, I feel so much better," William Hoover, the ATF Assistant Director for Field Operations wrote in an email the next morning.
Hoover's emails lay out all the questions that congressional and Justice Department investigators are examining about Fast and Furious.
"This is a major investigation with huge political implications and great potential if all goes well. We must be very prepared if it doesn't go well,"
Hoover wrote in a Oct. 5, 2007 email.
"I would like to discuss the following: Have we discussed the strategy with the US Attorney's Office re letting guns walk? Do we have this approval in
writing? Have we discussed and thought thru the consequences of same? Are we tracking south of the border?" Hoover wrote in the email.
A later email from Anne Marie Paskalis, senior counsel in charge of field operations on Oct. 5 indicated that the U.S. Attorney's office "is not yet
fully on board with this investigation."
At the time, the U.S. Attorney for Arizona was Daniel Knauss, who was serving on an interim basis after the Bush administration fired Paul Charlton in
the course of the U.S. Attorney scandal.
Newell also wrote that the U.S. Embassy, which at the time was being run by Bush appointed ambassador Antonio Garza, "was fully on-board with this and
they are a key player in authorizing any such case."
Another individual told Newell that the ambassador "was not suprised (sic) that the Mexicans missed the load," according to his email.
Eventually, Newell shut the case down.
"I truly appreciate your enthusiasm about this case and I'm sorry I had to damper that as well as get you jammed up - for that I'm truly sorry,"
Newell wrote to ATF assistant director Carson Carroll.
"I think we both understand the extremely positive potential for a case such as this but at this point I'm so frustrated with this whole mess I'm
shutting the case down and any further attempts to do something similar," Newell wrote. "We're done trying to pursue new and innovative initiatives --
it's not worth the hassle."
The case sat dormant until prosecutors reviewed the case during the Obama administration and decided to file charges.
Issa's investigators have had the documents and emails on the 2007 case for months, but he hasn't said anything much about them. Issa's office said
that pointing to the Bush-era program "reeks of desperation," but said that he would "get to the bottom" of the Bush-era Operation Wide Receiver.
Hoover is now special agent in charge of ATF's D.C. field division, while Newell was reassigned to a job at ATF's D.C. headquarters.
Cypress - 10-14-2011 at 04:40 PM
Oh yea! Bush did it!
And Obama? Heck, he just found out about it on the 7 th.
hole, caused him to miss a birdie! But, he did better on the next hole.
Oggie - 10-14-2011 at 06:18 PM
One is as bad as the other was my point.
BajaRat - 10-14-2011 at 06:46 PM
Sadly more lives will be taken with those weapons, nice cushy reassignments will be handed out and both sides of the border will pay. I'm sure we will
be paying for their nice retirement packages as well.