BajaNomad

Methanol in Pemex fuel ?

dtbushpilot - 8-20-2011 at 06:05 PM

Does anybody in Nomadlandia know with any relative certainty weather or not Pemex fuel does or may contain methanol? A friend has a boat with a fiberglass fuel tank and is worried about the possible negative effects that methanol may have on the fiberglass.

Thanks in advance for the help......dt

Roberto - 8-20-2011 at 06:40 PM

A lot of the fuel sold in Baja Norte is refined in the US. It's cheaper for them to buy it from US than transport it that far. While I can't say this for certain, I would imagine it's almost certain that the answer is yes. Unless, of course it's formulated specially, which seems unlikely.

David K - 8-20-2011 at 10:30 PM

If it is Ethynol you are wondering about (that is added so heavily to some gas brands here)... I don't think so, because my gas mileage on Pemex is always better (even with heavy loads and fast driving) than regular driving up here on Costco or ARCO gas (which contains 10% ethynol).

Maybe do a search and see if BajaCactus has ever addressed that? I do believe he has said that only Premium gas has come from the U.S., but never Magna (from my memory of his posts).

[Edited on 8-21-2011 by David K]

BajaNomad - 8-21-2011 at 04:17 AM

Both Methanol and Ethanol would be detrimental to the fiberglass fuel tank in the boat (a mid-80's or older boat, I presume). I've not yet read if MTBE does something similar.

It's unlikely that there'll be Methanol in the gas. Ethanol is possible, and as I noted at the beginning of the year, I could smell the MTBE in the Premium throughout Baja at that time. Antonio of Baja Cactus in El Rosario noted this in December of 2010: "as far as I know, there is no ethanol content on any Pemex fuel, at least I have never seen it in the lab reports of any shipments we have received at BajaCactus".

I presume that Pemex changes the fuel at the pumps seasonally, and therefore what's available today is unlikely to be what was available on my trip in Dec/Jan. The oxygenate could be the same though.

Pemex is working on having locally produced gasoline with 6% Ethanol in Mexico City, Guadalajara and Monterrey by 2012:
http://www.petroleumworld.com/story08111114.htm

I'm reading elsewhere (May, 2011 info) that they're going to have a hard time coming up with the ethanol locally though.
Quote:

A May 24, 2011, article published by Grupo Reforma reported that Mexico's only fully operational ethanol plant, a U.S. $60 million project built by Destilmex in the state of Sinaloa, is about to be dismantled or sold. Eduardo de la Vega, President of Destilmex, commented that the limitations prohibiting the use of corn as a biofuel input as defined in the Mexican Biofuels Law were the first obstacle that the plant managed to avoid by using sorghum as an alternative. Although Mexico has several sugar mills that could produce ethanol, the Destilmex project was the only facility primarily devoted to producing fuel ethanol.

Mexican Secretary of Agriculture Francisco Mayorga declared last year that sugar-based ethanol production was on hold because of Pemex. When Pemex launched its bid for ethanol supplies in 2009, several sugar milling companies (the only ones technologically capable of producing ethanol) rushed to participate. However, they were all disappointed by Pemex's price of 8.20 pesos per liter (U.S. $0.72) as the cost of producing ethanol in the sugar mills was over 12 pesos per liter (U.S. $1.04). Although a company was granted the bid, it was later cancelled by Pemex, claiming contractual issues.

http://tinyurl.com/3hfkqnl


My understanding in the past was also that the Salina Cruz refinery (the only one on the west coast) did not produce gasoline - and that west coast gasoline was all imported. I'm seeing a report from this month that states both Magna and Premium are being produced (now?) at Salina Cruz. There could be imported gasoline as well - as I don't know if Salina Cruz's volume is sufficient to meet current demand.

bonanza bucko - 8-21-2011 at 08:03 AM

You can find out if there is methanol (alcohol) in fuel by putting some in a bottle then shaking it. The methanol will separate at the bottom of the bottle because it's heavier than the gas. Us guys who fly airplanes do this with our gas before every flight.....ehtanol eats up rubber items in the bird like fuel bladders and fuel lines. You can't have any of it in avgas.

BB:-(

bonanza bucko - 8-21-2011 at 08:05 AM

REVISION TO THE ABOVE ABOUT AVGAS AND ETHANOL....I forgot add that you must put some water in the bottle where it will combine with the ethanol and not the gas....the volume of "water" in the bottle will increase as the ethanol combines with it.
Sorry for the omission.
BB :-(

BajaNomad - 8-21-2011 at 08:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bonanza bucko
REVISION TO THE ABOVE ABOUT AVGAS AND ETHANOL....I forgot add that you must put some water in the bottle where it will combine with the ethanol and not the gas....the volume of "water" in the bottle will increase as the ethanol combines with it.
Sorry for the omission.
BB :-(


Called phase separation. More on that:
http://www.epa.gov/oms/regs/fuels/rfg/waterphs.pdf

You need to add enough water for the separation to occur - as the ethanol will absorb/dissolve small enough traces of the water before the separation will happen.

I believe the indication from BB is to look for (slightly) more separated liquid at the bottom of the container than was added in H2O, as there'll be both alcohol *and* water mixed together at the bottom afterwards.

Water separates from gasoline anyway, so if it's the same amount of fluid in the bottom, it would be an indication of no alcohol, or not enough water added to make the determination.

Water (or an alcohol/water mix) will sit at the bottom of the gasoline, as it has a "heavier" specific gravity than the gasoline. BTW... almost all av/auto gasoline has colored dye in it for identification purposes, thusly you'll have colored gasoline above the water (or water/alcohol mix).

Will ethanol get cloudy when mixed with water in the presence of hydrocarbons? I know methanol will.




[Edited on 8-21-2011 by BajaNomad]

Ateo - 8-21-2011 at 09:16 AM

Maybe try getting a material safety data sheet from Pemex.

dtbushpilot - 8-21-2011 at 09:21 AM

I think the handwriting is on the wall for my friends fiberglass fuel tank in his Bertram 28, my guess is that he will end up replacing it rather than have issues offshore somewhere.

Thanks for the help Nomads, you rock!.....dt

Ateo - 8-21-2011 at 09:46 AM

Methanol is stored in fiberglass Underground Storage Tanks (UST's) so I'd imagine it's fine being stored in a fiberglass gas tank.

BajaNomad - 8-21-2011 at 09:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ateo
Methanol is stored in fiberglass Underground Storage Tanks (UST's) so I'd imagine it's fine being stored in a fiberglass gas tank.
No. Not an apples-to-apples comparison. Ethanol is stored there too.

It's apparently the mid-80's (and older) boats that had the tanks that were/are a problem. You'd need to do more research as to the specifics - but it's out there.