BajaNomad

Solar Equipment: Where to Buy?

jakecard - 8-27-2011 at 01:53 PM

I want to start pricing and comparing solar equipment for an off-grid house. Any information or tips on getting the best performing, most reliable and cost-effective system for the money?

For those who have purchased entire systems, where did you make your purchase?

Is online purchasing a wise option? What brand names would you recommend I search?

Are complete systems available for purchase in Baja? If so, how do the prices and quality compare to systems sold in the U.S.?

In the coming weeks I plan to walk through several San Diego, CA, retail solar stores to have a look around, but I thought it would first be worth getting ideas from Nomads in order to better understand what questions I might ask.

Thank you in advance for any replies.






Jake

Here's my experience

Santiago - 8-27-2011 at 02:46 PM

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=53252#pid6262...

vandy - 8-27-2011 at 02:47 PM

I keep looking at sunelec.com, just to keep a nice freezer on the beach.
I've got the cost down to $600-$900.
That will buy a lot of ice!

2 batteries
200+-watt panel
MPPT charge controller
inverter
freezer
cables and connectors

Russ - 8-27-2011 at 02:47 PM

There are a few good places that are on line but also have show rooms. I'll try to find out where a few of my neighbors bought their systems. For a one bedroom place your probably looking at a 3000watt to 4000watt 24 volt system. Here's what I have and most people here have at least this large of a system.
6- 120 watt panels, 8- L-16 batteries, 1- 60amp controller, 1- 4000watt inverter. I installed shut off switches on each leg of the system and over sized cables. I think you should plan on about $10,000 or a bit more. I just bought 4-L-16 batteries (US Battery) for just over a grand.
Here's a starting point. Sun & Wind in AZ - http://www.solar-electric.com/

[Edited on 8-27-2011 by Russ]

That's where I have bought all my stuff

beercan - 8-27-2011 at 04:46 PM

But my last couple of conversations with them, are larger panels , 120's are "out" and L-16's aren't being recommended.
They sold me an Outback 48V system 6 years ago and it has performed flawlessly . I installed it all myself.
Quote:
by Russ
Here's a starting point. Sun & Wind in AZ - http://www.solar-electric.com/

Russ - 8-27-2011 at 05:46 PM

I suppose that a 48 volt system is more efficient and with the OutBack controller it doesn't mater which system you're charging. I have a 12+ year old 2440 Trace inverter and I like the 24 volt set up. If I have a couple of bad L-16's, as I have now, I can get enough hours on 4 batteries to keep the fan and light going during the night. I have 4 new batteries in the pipe line and I hope I can make it on just 4 until then.
I'm curious... What is being recommended instead if the L-16?

L-16's ????

beercan - 8-27-2011 at 06:20 PM

I think this is the last quote that I got from Pat--

it says Cr-395 Crown 395 AH and they also quoted 185 Watt Kyocera panels .

larryC - 8-27-2011 at 06:47 PM

I find the best deals at Sun electronics for solar panels. I usually buy the larger 200+ watt panels. They also have complete systems, but many times it is cheaper to shop around different places.
http://www.sunelec.com/
Larry

Russ - 8-27-2011 at 06:59 PM

Went to the Sun & Wind site and took a look at your batteries.
http://www.solar-electric.com/cr395amdecyb.html
The hipe on Trojan & US batteries is similar. I would call them L-16's. They are in the middle of the price range. I'm trying the US batteries this time. The hipe on Trojan said 10 year life. After more than 20 batteries that's never happened. So for $130 less per battery I'm switching. Maybe try the Crown battery next.
I wish that there was something on the market that was as good as lead acid batteries and cheap.

bonanza bucko - 8-28-2011 at 07:31 AM

The best place I have found is Thesolarbiz.com. They do business over the telephone and they are super knowledgeable about all aspects of off the grid solar power. They take the time to answer your questions completely and verbally and they will do a great deal to educate you if you need that....I did.

We have a house at Gonzaga Bay with a very adequate solar system that is wired as a 24 V system. We have 10, 170 watt panels, an MPPT charge controller by Xantrex, a Magnum energy 4000 watt full sine wave inverter/charger and 8 L-16 batteries by Surette-Rolls.

We have 36 amps of 120V AC that supplies power for a 2500 square foot house with TV, Sat internet, two fridges and a freezer plus all the stuff you have to add.....pumps for water pressure, power for control of point of use propane hot water heaters for bathrooms and kitchen....microwave..and even my wife's hair dryer. We usually are recharged by about noon every day and we only have to top off the batteries with a generator after about two and half days with no sun...that has never happened.

I would guess that we have about $10,000 invested in this system...but we did all the work with friends locally.....had to because we are remote. Because of that the advice and education we got from TheSolarBiz was vital.

This is our second system. It has been operating flawlessly for the last four years. Our first system was installed..by us...in 2001. That was before MPPT charge controllers and the need for full sine wave power which we now have. If you are not familiar with MPPT charge controllers you need to be educated before you set up your system...they operate on the "overhead" between the voltage that you have your panels wired for and the voltage of your batteries by measuring the difference every 60th of a second and then reducing the voltage coming into the controller from the panels to a voltage just above the voltage of the batteries (is goes up as they recharge) and, thus, increasing the amps incoming....VW=A and etc. Talk to TheSolarBiz if this is obscure to you.

Our first system was...at the time...pretty state of the art...Trace controller, inverter, smaller panels and Interstate batteries. We outgrew it because the inverter was not full sine wave as needed by computers and water heaters and because the Interstate batteries only lasted five years on a 7 year "guarantee." The Rolls batteries are more expensive but we have friends who tell us the guarantee....10 years I think...is good.

There are changes and improvements in this stuff all the time and you may find that there is better gear than we now have because it's four years old.....again..Talk with TheSolarBiz.

The prices we got from them were also very, very good. Example: We bought our 8 Rolls L-16 batteries from them but they are in New Mexico and the batteries are heavy (about 120#/each) and shipping could be saved by having them delivered by a supplier locally here in San Diego. So we paid TheSolarBiz their price which was about 80% of the local price but the local dealer put the batteries on my truck
so I could haul them to Gonzaga Bay!!...he wondered how I had gotten that price!

I'm sure some of the suppliers mentioned above are very fine. I found, however, that TheSolarBiz had the best combination of human beings who knew what they were talking about and a willingness to spend time telling you what you need to know and price/service etc.

Lemme know if you need more input. I get my jollies working with this stuff.....it is very neat.

BB:-)

Russ - 8-28-2011 at 08:10 AM

bonanza bucko, I'm totally impressed with this site. I compared prices, not including shipping, and found them the best, so far. I'm still browsing their site and it has everything I've looked for. This is one I'll add to my favorites. Thanks
http://www.thesolarbiz.com/default.htm

larryC - 8-28-2011 at 08:58 AM

I agree, the people at thesolarbiz are excellent, I bought my Outback inverters and charge controllers from them.
Larry

bonanza bucko - 8-28-2011 at 04:27 PM

Need to correct my post above. The formula is VA=W...not VW=A. W/V=A and W/A=V...I have fat fingers and can't type.

BB:-(

RichBaja - 8-28-2011 at 07:56 PM

Bonanza Bucko, Any ideas how much it would cost to get an off grid system to just run a regular refrigerator with a freezer?

BajaGringo - 8-28-2011 at 08:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RichBaja
Bonanza Bucko, Any ideas how much it would cost to get an off grid system to just run a regular refrigerator with a freezer?


That will depend on the size/efficiency of the fridge/freezer and how hot it gets at your part of the world in summer. The hotter the temps, the more the compressor will run. I would talk to any neighbors you know that have one running now and use that for a comparison...

ncampion - 8-28-2011 at 08:24 PM

First do the math. You need to figure out how many watt/hours per day of power you will use, then work backward to determine, batteries, panels and inverter size.

jakecard - 8-29-2011 at 07:59 AM

Thank you again for each of your replies.

With so many companies in the solar market place offering such a wide variety of (ever-changing?) technologies, what is the deciding factor on which brand-name(s) to buy?

Is it just down to one's individual budget? Do significant differences in quality exist between the various manufacturer's products? Or do they all perform about the same?





Jake

bonanza bucko - 8-29-2011 at 08:10 AM

Jakecard:

I would ask TheSolarBiz those questions. Their business is built on customer product knowledge first and sales second....they don't want anyone to buy something they are sorry they bought....I trust them and they have earned the trust.

The guys above who said you need to make up a power "budget" before you buy are all correct. ie..how big a fridge, how hot a day etc. But there are lots of fun and interesting ways to skin that cat. Example: You can buy a $1500 Sunfrost fridge or you can go to Home Depot and buy a $200 chest freezer and then go to The Keg Works and get the gizmo that lets you set the temperature that that freezer runs at the...TA DA!...you have $250 chests fridge. Mine has been running for four years...no problema...muy bueno! BTW...chest fridges and freezers are best in hot Baja because the cold air doesn't "spill out" when you open the door.

The only advice I can give you beyond getting the facts from somebody you trust like TheSolarBiz is to not buy something cheep (well...other than that $200 chest freezer above)...don't buy cheap solar panels or a goofy brand inverter or charge controller. Stick to the brands carried by TheSolarBiz.

BTW...I don't work for them...I don't get any benefit from them. I think, however, that they are the ONLY business in the solar field that I know of who have figured out that a customer's knowledge and satisfaction is worth more than sales in the long run.

BB :-)

RichBaja - 8-29-2011 at 09:13 AM

Bonanza Bucko, thanks for your reply!

larryC - 8-30-2011 at 07:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
Quote:
Originally posted by RichBaja
Bonanza Bucko, Any ideas how much it would cost to get an off grid system to just run a regular refrigerator with a freezer?


That will depend on the size/efficiency of the fridge/freezer and how hot it gets at your part of the world in summer. The hotter the temps, the more the compressor will run. I would talk to any neighbors you know that have one running now and use that for a comparison...


So true, I have a 18 cuft sears that during the cooler months uses about .9-1kw a day. But in the hot months that number triples to 2.9-3 kw a day. I measured this with a kill a watt meter. Something to think about when your are planning your system.
Also I would highly recommend a true sine wave inverter. I burned up 2 compressors using a msw xantrex inverter. I switched to an Outback tsw inverter 6 years ago and no more problems with the compressors.
Good luck with yours.
Larry

shari - 8-30-2011 at 08:14 AM

Jake, you may want to consider a combo like at the canuck's place at the entrance to town...they run both systems and swear by their small wind generator...it creates enough power to run a few houses and wind is usually in abundance here...and you would need way less panels.

Bajajorge - 9-1-2011 at 08:09 AM

Sun and Wind in Arizona is one of the cheapest places I've found for buying solar equipment. Getting the stuff across the border is another story.

bajatravelergeorge - 9-1-2011 at 03:06 PM

I learned the hard way about batteries. When I bought my Rolls Surette L16s, they were the highest recommended batteries out there. Turns out they use sponge type lead plates which require a high amp charge about once a month to open up the pores of the plates to accept a charge. Your solar system will not provide enough amps to do this so you have to do it with a generator and a battery charger. If you don't do it, your batteries will lose the capacity to hold a charge.

So when you research you batteries, stay away from the sponge type lead plates. Rolls/Surette uses solid plates in their higher end batteries. Look for the thicker plates in the specs, or call their great tech support.