BajaNomad - Shirtless in Mexico

Shirtless in Mexico

Osprey - 9-7-2011 at 10:06 AM

And another thing about gringos and Baja and culture and courtesy…..

Over the last 50 years while traveling and living in Baja California I learned about the fact that most Mexicans are not into nudity. I learned when and where it was Okay to show some skin --- almost never and almost nowhere.

Can’t expect everyone to know what I have learned by just coming here, keeping my eyes open and staying alive to do it over and over again.

Having said that it bothered me then and it bothers me now to see gringos without shirts in public places far from the beach – stores, churches, schools, museums, etc.

Since it’s not my country I don’t have the standing to do much about my feelings when I see a surfer dude without a shirt wobbling around a little tienda looking for something that has alcohol in it.

So far I have fought the good fight of trying not to change anything in my new country but sometimes it has been a challenge. My mind has looped hours of film footage in make believe scenes where I set the shirtless straight without starting Mexican World War III.

Some examples:

1. I’m able to get the guy outside where I can explain his error and hope he’ll go to the car, put on a shirt, thank me while the counter girl is smiling at me through the dirty window like I was San Jorge.

2. I’m not able to move the guy along, he wants to know why he’s being molested then I watch as I kick his a$$ but break about $400 dollars worth of stuff in store.

3. Same as number 2 but he’s not as drunk as he looked and he kicks my a$$, the store people throw me out in the street.

4. We are both in better shape then we thought and we break $600 dollars worth of stuff and share the same hospital room and later I’m in Celda 1, he’s in Celda 3 and he gets out 3 days ahead of me.

5. The fine, the store damage, the hospital and doctors costs, the mordida cause me to send for $4,100 dollars and I wind up sleeping in my car for 2 days waiting for the Western Union people to do me right.

The ultimate embarrassment of the whole episode plays out with more scenes of cavalier drama as I try to explain to the police, the store people, the doctors and finally the judge that I was trying to be a good guest, an ambassador, spreading cultural goodwill and instruction throughout the land.

I won’t bother you with the one about the surfer girl. It’s long but it’s a hoot.

P.S. Since I don't want to offend my pal Woody and other surfers, kindly, as you will, please substitute the words librarian, Rotarian, proctologist, contrarian, vegan, pirate or male nurse for the word "surfer".

[Edited on 9-7-2011 by Osprey]

Katiejay99 - 9-7-2011 at 10:15 AM

Oh you are SO right! I get the same feelings you do - I REALLY want to say something to them. Just like women running around without bras on - I have never (ug, that word again) seen a Mexican woman without a bra on.

I actually did say something once to a guy - he told me to mind my own business. Oh well. The thing is, is that now when I am up in the US I tend to find myself offended by all the nudeness (for the lack of a better word).

Sometimes I wonder if it has something to do with self respect.

[Edited on 9-7-2011 by Katiejay99]

mtgoat666 - 9-7-2011 at 10:15 AM

while all should wear shirt in stores and restaurants,... there should also be a law that fat people cannot wear tank tops or shorts!

JESSE - 9-7-2011 at 10:16 AM

I don't think its a matter of having a problem with nudity, i think its more of a genetic thing, you know, we Mexicans genetically tend to be more gordos and are not as comfortable showing our fat guts :lol:

Katiejay99 - 9-7-2011 at 10:18 AM

Oh, that was funny - I had to laugh! I DO see lots of Mexican's with tummies hanging out - male and female and I think the same thing - should be a law against that - and it's mostly the fat ones who do it.

Tbone - 9-7-2011 at 10:35 AM

Slow day today? running out or things to b-tch about?

Osprey - 9-7-2011 at 10:42 AM

No just seeing if I could get your lazy a$$ed brain working enough to get up and use the keyboard. (keybored?)

Tbone - 9-7-2011 at 10:50 AM

I guess I was right.

Osprey - 9-7-2011 at 11:02 AM

Sure were. Slow day for you but not for me.

El Jefe - 9-7-2011 at 11:10 AM

I have to agree that it rankles just a little to see the guy, and yes he usually is a surfer or a good ol' boy, doing the tourist walk shirtless in San Jose del. It just seems sensible to look around and see what the people are wearing and to try to blend in just a little, out of respect for the local culture if nothing else.
I've even gone to wearing a collared shirt to town most of the time, but I draw the line at long pants on a hot day.

We were in a nice restaurant a few weeks ago and in came a bunch of guys, a few of whom wore nacky tank tops that looked like something to wipe oil off my hands. Thoughtless.

sancho - 9-7-2011 at 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
we Mexicans genetically tend to be more gordos and are not as comfortable showing our fat guts :lol:

Don't try to corner the Market on fat guts. Not to stray too
far, another thing that makes me cringe are Gringo's walking
the streets of San Felipe, beer in hand, or to see gringos
climbing out of their dune buggys, beer in hand.
Show respect for the Host Country and their mores,
I do fall into the category of Old Guy 70's Surfer and
20# over

[Edited on 9-7-2011 by sancho]

Dave - 9-7-2011 at 11:33 AM

It's worse than you think.

Russ - 9-7-2011 at 11:34 AM

I drive around shirtless and pretty much spend the summer that way. However I do slip on a shirt if others are around. Trying to be polite and also I'm fat and conscience of it. Those that don't take that small consideration into mind really don't care and I'm pretty sure they are inconsiderate in many more ways than going shirtless in public. I see very few people shirtless in public around here. Some of the workers around here are wearing hoodies and swear they're cooler. I ain't buying it.

Skipjack Joe - 9-7-2011 at 12:14 PM

I always shave my back before going shirtless.

durrelllrobert - 9-7-2011 at 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Katiejay99
I have never (ug, that word again) seen a Mexican woman without a bra on.

Ever been to Anthony's? :lol:

Barry A. - 9-7-2011 at 03:19 PM

We once were camped out on Conception Bay over Easter week (1976) with a lot of Gringo groups around us, and a big group of Mexicanos beside us in one camp. There were at least 5 couples sunbathing & swimming nude (all gringos) along the beach both north and south of us. Several of the Mexicano men walked down the beach with mechetes in hand, and spoke to each group of nudes, group by group, but we could not hear what they said. Very soon there was no more nudity. Problem solved, and the Mexicano's continued to be very friendly to our group of non-nudies, so don't think there was any generic hostility towards gringos that we could discern.

Our take-------the nude-males were disgusting, but the co-eds definitely enhanced the beauty of the place

, and the Mexicano's (the men) reluctantly and sheepishly agreed!!! The Mexicano women scowled at our comments, and the kids laughed----hard. No big deal that we could tell.

But having said all this, I agree that the Mexicano's generally are much more modest, and seldom expose much skin----and think of those that do as rude.

I have seen nudity on the beaches of Baja CA many, many times, but almost always in secluded beachy places where there were no locals present. Me, I did my skinny-dipping and sun-showers in Baja at night just before bed---------and it feels sooooooo great!!!! :lol:

Barry

Woooosh - 9-7-2011 at 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
I always shave my back before going shirtless.

Bajahowodd - 9-7-2011 at 03:55 PM

It ain't about the nudity. It's about taste.

That said, Per Jesse's comment, I'd ponder a guess that it might have something to do with "peasant" fare. Beans, rice and tortillas. Oh. And Lard.

Wealthy folks who are fat owe it their own personal choice. Poor people who are fat, more likely to their survival menu.

Martyman - 9-7-2011 at 04:03 PM

Going nude is nothing compared to those guy bicyclist in their spandex. I am practicing my projectile vomiting to spew at them. Can't they just wear regular clothes? Nobody and I mean nobody want to see your spandex a$$.

Now in Europe...

Pescador - 9-7-2011 at 04:21 PM

Thank you Osprey for posting this. I am amazed by the people who come down here year after year, but never learn the customs and culture of what goes on. It is considered impolite to go shirtless (for males) (( an exception is always made for someone of the fairer sex)). But it is perfectly acceptable to roll your shirt over your stomach to cool off. We have a guy who has serious tatoos all over his body and if he could only understand what the Mexicans are saying about him, he might show a little consideration and cover up some of his "fine art work". Course he as well as all of his friends might question some of the nicknames that they have such as "Ate the whole damn tortilla", "Wolfman", "Osama Bin Ladin", "Gaviota," and " Panza Burrito".
At least it provides entertainment to the locals and gives them something to talk about.

woody with a view - 9-7-2011 at 04:57 PM

Sr. Osprey

due to my own modesty and fondness for Pacifico's i know enough to keep my shirt on anywhere in mixed company, even at the beach, which seldom happens as most of the beaches i seek out are deserted....

you do bring up a good point about how best to educate the clueless. it's prolly better to make faces and point while sneering at the offender, lest your Mexican hosts think you appreciate good sleeve ink.

i wonder what chrisx thinks?

mtgoat666 - 9-7-2011 at 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pescador
We have a guy who has serious tatoos all over his body and if he could only understand what the Mexicans are saying about him, he might show a little consideration and cover up some of his "fine art work".

tatoos are a bit marooonic. the most marooonic are the polynesian-, maori- and other tribal-style tatoos sported by middle class gringos that work in cubicles of corporate america and hail from the burbs.

i suppose the only good tatoo is a tramp stamp on a fine piece of @ss (but will be a messy tatoo when that tail turns 50)

woody with a view - 9-7-2011 at 05:38 PM

hey goat, it's called an A$$ hat. get with the times, bud. :light:

JESSE - 9-7-2011 at 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

JESSE - 9-7-2011 at 05:53 PM

The only cool tatoos are the ones that where done when something heavy was happening in your life, like when you join the marines, or go to prison. :lol:

nudity

C-Urchin - 9-7-2011 at 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Martyman
Going nude is nothing compared to those guy bicyclist in their spandex. I am practicing my projectile vomiting to spew at them. Can't they just wear regular clothes? Nobody and I mean nobody want to see your spandex a$$.

Now in Europe...

OOOUUUHHH! How about the....SPEEDOOOOO!

Fat guy, hairy back, bow legged...

Santiago - 9-7-2011 at 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
I always shave my back before going shirtless.

How do you get those spots you can't reach???

mtgoat666 - 9-7-2011 at 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
The only cool tatoos are the ones that where done when something heavy was happening in your life, like when you join the marines, or go to prison. :lol:

like commemorating your first kill with a teardrop tatoo beneath your eye!

Loretana - 9-7-2011 at 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
The only cool tatoos are the ones that where done when something heavy was happening in your life, like when you join the marines, or go to prison. :lol:

......or as Jimmy Buffett said "a tatoo is a permanent reminder of a temporary situation..." :rolleyes:

another good reason to keep your shirt on!

[Edited on 9-8-2011 by Loretana]

tripledigitken - 9-7-2011 at 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
I always shave my back before going shirtless.

How do you get those spots you can't reach???

MANGROOMER, it has a long handle for those hard to reach spots.

http://www.mangroomer.com/

[Edited on 9-8-2011 by tripledigitken]

NO Respect,perhaps

bajadave1 - 9-8-2011 at 07:05 AM

The gringo's I see her in our small town, are usually the first time tourist's.They don't seem to be aware of fitting in with the population's mores and civility. I always feel bad that we are sometimes judged as guilt by association as "Ugly Americans" Maybe IQ points evaporate quicker when that much skin is exposed! Have not seen any senoritas goin' crazy over them.
:lol:

Dave

Tbone - 9-8-2011 at 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajadave1
The gringo's I see her in our small town, are usually the first time tourist's.They don't seem to be aware of fitting in with the population's mores and civility. I always feel bad that we are sometimes judged as guilt by association as "Ugly Americans" Maybe IQ points evaporate quicker when that much skin is exposed! Have not seen any senoritas goin' crazy over them.
:lol:

Dave

It seems to me that us ugly shirtless Americans bother you higher then thou want to be's more then it does the Mexicans.

toneart - 9-8-2011 at 08:52 AM

Quote:

Dave

Yes! I think you are basically saying the same thing as Osprey. Speaking for myself, it is not the nudity that is offensive; it is the lack of cultural sensitivity exhibited. It reflects on the way all of us Gringos are judged.

I too subscribe to the double standard though; nude women are easier on the eye than nude men. Add to that the fat and hairy bodies of nude men, well, that's gross in any culture. :barf:

But clothed women are OK by me. I know what is going on underneath those clothes!

In regards to why nudity is not prevalent in Mexican culture, nobody has mentioned the Catholic factor. Catholicism holds a culture in bondage through the generations and is the main driver of morals for the masses.

Barry A. - 9-8-2011 at 09:20 AM

Tony---------"bondage"????????? I don't think so. People CHOOSE to have structure in their society, and the 'church' provides that.

You brought this up, and it is controversial, so I am commenting.

I am not religious, but I certainly can see the appeal of a structured society that holds morals and principals to a higher standard that many appreciate, aspire too, even if they don't always practice those 'principals'. We are all hypocrits, IMO, but we do aspire to greater things than we often practice, at least some of us do, and that is ok, and even admirable, IMO

Barry

Moral high ground

Dave - 9-8-2011 at 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
There were at least 5 couples sunbathing & swimming nude (all gringos) along the beach both north and south of us. Several of the Mexicano men walked down the beach with mechetes in hand, and spoke to each group of nudes, group by group, but we could not hear what they said. Very soon there was no more nudity.

Defending modesty while littering their beaches and byways with abandon.

shari - 9-8-2011 at 10:38 AM

geez Marty...I love spandex on those sexy bikeriders, football pants too!

Yup, I had to really tone down my...err...bathing habits when I moved here and putting on a bikini was not enough...Juan doesnt want me swimming in public view unless I have either shorts or a one piece suit on...preferrably both. He never goes shirtless in public!...yes, it is frowned on here but as someone mentioned, the politically correct high horse folks are stressin much more about it than the locals.

these wild Italians put their shirts on when they came into town from the beach...they were going to go change into "dining clothes" and were surprised when I said they were fine the way they were...they couldnt believe it was OK to go into Juanitas in flip flops and shorts...one of the great things about Asuncion...pretty relaxed and beachy...they did wash the sand off their feet though...very respectful folks.

Wow Jake...we have another poet in our midst...nice piece dude.

[Edited on 9-8-2011 by shari]

chrisx - 9-8-2011 at 11:24 AM

temperature exemption?
41 Celsius at 11:00 am. I am wearing a shirt.
If it hits 45, can I take it off? 50?

Barry A. - 9-8-2011 at 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Defending modesty while littering their beaches and byways with abandon.

Dave-----Not all are guilty of that, at least in this case.. These local folks left a reasonably clean camp, even tho the general area was pretty messy to begin with. I know because I checked their camp after they left as I am a fanatic when it comes to "trash". I was impressed!!!! Not perfect, but pretty darn clean.

Barry

Hey, Keep Your Shirt On...and Your Pants

SFandH - 9-8-2011 at 02:33 PM

This guy probably wouldn't like Mexico.

link to LA Times article about hanging out in San Francisco

[Edited on 9-8-2011 by SFandH]

toneart - 9-8-2011 at 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
Tony---------"bondage"????????? I don't think so. People CHOOSE to have structure in their society, and the 'church' provides that.

You brought this up, and it is controversial, so I am commenting.

I am not religious, but I certainly can see the appeal of a structured society that holds morals and principals to a higher standard that many appreciate, aspire too, even if they don't always practice those 'principals'. We are all hypocrits, IMO, but we do aspire to greater things than we often practice, at least some of us do, and that is ok, and even admirable, IMO

Barry

Barry,

I agree that religion should provide a structure for moral guidance. That is what the church is for. If it keeps people in line, that is a good thing. It activates Dopamine and is often a substitution and transference by dope addicts and cult followers.

The Catholic Church has not been a stellar institution throughout its long sordid past; a history of invasion, killing and plunder, and don't forget The Spanish Inquisition, emphasizing the fear of God rather than the Love of God...and then there is that old Devil guy they give so much power to. "Bondage" is quite applicable, in my opinion.

I am not anti-religion, but I am sacrilegious. I am also against Evangelists trying to lay it on me and also trying to take over my country and its armed services through politics. The Crusades are emerging once again.

However, there are other ways for people strong of character to live a moral life and thereby teaching by example; not by proselytizing. It is called taking responsibility for one's actions in the Here and Now. :light:

Let my shirt be a testimonial symbol of my moral character... unless I am on the beach or by a pool. :smug:

(You wouldn't have it any other way.)

shari - 9-8-2011 at 04:23 PM

thank you Tony

and I just wanna say that being naked is a beautiful thing...in the right place at the right time....sigh...

Barry A. - 9-8-2011 at 04:29 PM

Tony---------Every major institution/political entity throughout history that I am aware of has a dark-side, and has done things that are atrocious by someone's standards------mankind does this consistantly, especially when he "groups up"-------it seems to be in the DNA of some of us-------not me, of course!!! (I am a loner)

I just think that bashing other folks leads to unnecessary animosity, and bazaar behavior that is counter-productive. There is always a back-lash, it seems to me, when we condemn things that so many others believe in. Mexicanos are largely Catholic------a fact--------and that is just the way it is, like you say. Yes, it certainly contributes to the way they react to others rudeness, you are right.

Barry

A religious experience

Dave - 9-8-2011 at 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
Yes, it certainly contributes to the way they react to others rudeness, you are right.

Does Catholicism have any effect on the amount of litter Mexicans leave on the beaches after Semana Santa?

Barry A. - 9-8-2011 at 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
Yes, it certainly contributes to the way they react to others rudeness, you are right.

Does Catholicism have any effect on the amount of litter Mexicans leave on the beaches after Semana Santa?

You got me, Dave. Perhaps yes, perhaps no-----but I am suspicious.

Barry

vgabndo - 9-8-2011 at 06:34 PM

Every culture has a right to its boundaries. I have always tried to be dressed much like the locals around me. Is there a prudishness to the Mexican favor of going about mostly clothed? Possibly. There has been lots of talk on this thread indicating a disdain for or repulsion with and finding no beauty in the "undraped human form". How odd. Does this come from the nature of man, or the teachings of priests who have gone so far (Calvinism) as to declare a newborn human too flawed to enter their "kingdom of heaven".

To the credit of the Mexican people, after the revolution of the nineteen teens, the new constitution divorced itself from the church, and now is FAR more free of religion in government than is the USA. Is there a lingering cultural tie to the repressive dress code of the priests. Or, is the culture simply mirroring those of so many other hot arid places where the people have traditionally worn lots of coverage.

Barry A, I invite you to take a look at secular humanism as a very positive set of moral parameters which easily cover all the bases, utilizing principles in general acceptance long before the invention of Christianity. No god, no problem. Be good for goodness sake. The golden rule is not a Christian invention.

:lol:

Barry A. - 9-8-2011 at 07:28 PM

Vag-------I have no particular problem with "humanism" until they start taking pot-shots at the religious folks, or appear to want to impose their "humanism" to the exclusion of other beliefs or practices.

Anything that promotes moral and societal values that are positive and helpful to the majority is fine with me, and I embrace them.

Barry

vgabndo - 9-8-2011 at 11:17 PM

Sorry, seriously cannot agree. The history of organized religion as a moral force is a dismal one, and if the American Taliban doesn't need to be yelled at....I won't yell.

If they want to teach kids that nothing is older than 6,000 years, and they do, I'm yelling.

There is a very crafty, very scary, right wing "Judeo Christian" organized militia operating in your back yard Barry. One of MANY.

the religious right poses far greater danger to USA than any terrorist group today!

mtgoat666 - 9-9-2011 at 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
Vag-------I have no particular problem with "humanism" until they start taking pot-shots at the religious folks, or appear to want to impose their "humanism" to the exclusion of other beliefs or practices.

barry:
the problem with religious right wingnuts is that they are ALWAYS trying to impose their religious nonsense on everyone else, by fighting against womans right to choose, and 1000 other social issues.
the religious right poses far greater danger to USA than any terrorist group today!
humanism is better than mormonism. humanism is better than rick perryism. humanism is better than michele bachmannism.

toneart - 9-9-2011 at 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
thank you Tony

and I just wanna say that being naked is a beautiful thing...in the right place at the right time....sigh...

Shari,

I was born naked!

Martyman - 9-9-2011 at 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
geez Marty...I love spandex on those sexy bikeriders, football pants too!
[Edited on 9-8-2011 by shari]

Alright Shari, go ahead and enjoy! Speaking of enjoyment-Do you have any more pics of those Italian girls?

El Jefe - 9-9-2011 at 09:21 AM

The problem with secular humanists is that we as a group tend to live and let live. Many of us lean a bit to the left and have a let's just all get along attitude. And that can be a disadvantage when faced with religious right-wing nut balls and their dogmatic BS. We don't yell back enough.

I now believe they are a threat to our society and we must get active and start calling them out when they spout their craziness. So bravo Vag and Goat!!
And as to nudity. I'm all for it in the right circumstances, hairy back and all! :lol:

vgabndo - 9-9-2011 at 11:00 AM

Jefe, thanks. I think that calling ourselves rational while not trying to pre-emp the dominionists is incorrect. I have found no evidence of left wing militias. They seem to all be right wing, or private armies like the Crips, Bloods, and other non-political militias using the assault weapons made available by Tom Delay and the GOP.

http://www.publiceye.org/ifas/library/militia/index.html

Here is the URL for our local cecessionist bunch of terrorists.

http://theshastalaker.com/JEFFERSON_STATE_MILITIA_Index_page...

shari - 9-9-2011 at 11:02 AM

martyman...your wish is my command

trade you this photo for a taut bike rider in spandex!

Mulegena - 9-9-2011 at 11:26 AM

Bike rider, naaah... gotta be gorgeously defined arms on golden skin of a working man, now we're talkin', and come to think of it there's plenty of that right in our own backyard... think I'll go take me a little walk.

or to jump to another thread... a buff black burro 14-15 hands tall

Skipjack Joe - 9-9-2011 at 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
martyman...your wish is my command

trade you this photo for a taut bike rider in spandex!

Doesn't Martyman get 2 more wishes?

Barry A. - 9-9-2011 at 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Vag---------the "right wingnuts" have ALWAYS been amongst us, and I as a Fed. field Ranger ran into them constantly as many tend to be anti-social and living in close proximity to Public Lands, or squatting on it in trespass, away from society---------I KNOW these people, and they are few in numbers. The vast majority of church goers are NOT a threat to you, or anybody else, IMO. But they are conservative and incensed at the way they perceive the Nation going lately (a left agenda??), and they are pushing back. I think that this "push back" is what you are perceiving as a threat, but for the life of me I don't know why---what do you expect? Again, IMO, there is no way that anybody (other than the Govt.) can "impose" anything of real substance on you, no matter how hard they try. Good Gawd, if we as a people can come back from a 9/11, we can survive most anything, and that is what is great about the people of this Nation. OF COURSE people are going to try to get you to see their side--------that's what active people do.

Sorry, but I don't see the "threat" that you do. But I certainly respect your efforts to have me "see the light", and I do pay attention to what you, and others, have to say. I am a Conservative, however, and will always perceive things differently than a Liberal or a so-called Progressive--------that is what keeps things interesting.

There are some issues that we never will agree on, but certainly not "1000's of them" as you state above----probably closer to a dozen, the way I see it. I am convinced that the American people mostly agree with each other when push comes to shove------we just are now approaching the "shoving stage" and it is a little rough as many of our differences have been under-the-rug for years, I think, and are now out in the open (horrors!!!!) as the perception that the powers-that-be are moving 'left', and we don't like that.

(but you know all this)

The "vote" will tell us, and we shall see which way we move as a Country.

(I think that this poor thread has been hyjacked)

Viva Mexico!!!! Viva USA!!!! Viva Canada!!!!!! :yes:

Barry

Cypress - 9-9-2011 at 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
martyman...your wish is my command

trade you this photo for a taut bike rider in spandex!

Nice looking trio! :yes:

Martyman - 9-9-2011 at 03:56 PM

Wow Shari!
I thank you!

ps i'm going to Italy for Xmas!

CP - 9-9-2011 at 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Jorge
Ah, but what say you concerning the Mexican pangeros proud disply of the "cahuamapanza"?

This local panguero fashion has a name!! Caguamapanza!!! It is perfect.
Thank you very much Don Jorge. Up til now, this style had been beyond my words.