The Hunting Thread

DIALOGUE WITH A HUNTER.

Part One:

So here we are….and here's about 2 cents worth of my opinion.


”Who are Hunters?”

Well….Here’s some typical ones hunting Honkers over decoys in a ND wheat stubble field just a couple days ago.

A normal scene Up North in the fall.


Dawn View from my ‘coffin’



More coffin views…a comfy place really…I often take siestas.




Above: I ‘shot’ these mallards coming into our decoys with my Nikon rather than my Browning.


The gadwalls, widgeons, greenheads, redheads, cans, and teal seem to mounting some kind of attack strategy?


Munga!! Incoming! Watch it, they’re flanking you.


Munga flags some in….this technique of flapping a black wing-shape to attract far-away ducks or geese really works…and well! Waterfowl will see that wing motion from a long ways away...a mile and more.


These honkers have made up their minds….their wings are SET….and they’re gliding in.



We are hidden from sight in our coffin blinds…shotguns at the ready… silent as the tomb...although the rustle of Hersey wrappers under my arse does not help.


Below: ‘Munga’ and son creating lifetime memories. A fine dad, Brian, and a fine son, Gavin…and two of my finest buddies. HUNTERS Gavin is 15, an ‘A’ student, and already a football lineman star. Takes after Pop. Dad Brain/Munga is a large fellow..6’4”. Even as a child, he was big…neighborhood folks said he was humungous!. .and so earned the nickname Munga forever after.



The chances of Munga ever strutting are non-existent, so I’ll do it for him. Munga’s a Lt. Colonel, a wizard with an M-16, recently winning 1st place in a 500-yard open sight shoot at Camp Grafton this summer, plus taking 3rd place in 9mm pistol.





However, this is NOT your average range shoot competition…this combat event begins hardcore by sprinting 200 yards with full pack thru obstacles, then standing, kneeling, laying while shooting free-style at moving man-targets 500yds away in a very short time…seconds. These are training exercises & competitions for seals, special forces, snipers, black ops, etc… people in their tough twenties. Young guy stuff. Munga is 51. Hey, Mung… you won 1st place, open post sight…at 500 yards moving? - after that workout?…not bad, amigo, not bad at all.

But WHY do you always miss the first honker of the season?? And… Maybe you can carry my shotgun & thermos to my blind for me?






The Central Flyway where we are hunting…stretches from Canada to Mexico, channels many millions of waterfowl south each year…only to return the flocks in spring migrations to the nesting grounds on the tundra and ponds Up North.







Some insight on who ‘real’ hunters are and what they do for us all.

First, some ..aha!...HISTORY!

Hunting has always been a varied activity, bristling with tradition and rich in heritage, yet at the same time fraught with innovation. We know who our ancestors and our country's founders are, and that many of them hunted, whether for food or fellowship or both.

We also know that hunters, though they are "consumptive" users of our wildlife, were and are instrumental in the unprecedented and largely unappreciated restoration of American wildlife populations during the 1900s and beyond.

But in our ever-more-urbanized modern nation, many folks don't appreciate all that hunters have done (and continue to do) for our nation's wildlife, and just as importantly, who the hunters of today are…like the ones you might recall in a certain Baja desert bighorn thread.


Real Hunters, the original conservationists, seek always to preserve and protect the very wildlife which they pursue and kill in the course of hunting.

For a hunter to explain to a non-hunter his deep love for the animals which he or she pursues is often very difficult, if not impossible at times. But this very love is exemplified in the lengths to which hunters go to preserve healthy habitat for, and populations of, both game and non-game species of wildlife.


Taxes and Fees: Just one example: In Baja the rates are enormous for bighorns. To hunt a trophy bighorn in Baja start to finish, you will get scant change back from 100 grand.

Both hunters and non-consumptive users (like Baja hikers and wildlife watchers) benefit from this fee & tax, while hunters willingly bear the brunt of its cost. This money provides benefits for both hunting and non-hunting folks.



Who are hunters? For one thing, they are the generous folks who pay for projects like these, that benefit everyone.


The Clark Salyer Wildlife Refuge that I live next to is visited by thousands of birders from all over the world. Audubon Society loves this area…shorebirds, songbirds, and all types frequent the marsh and woodlands in countless numbers and varieties. A true natural wonder..and one I never tire of viewing.









The hunters of our past included folks from every walk of life, from the original colonists and early explorers of North America to settlers of the American west, to a great number of our Presidents, including my all-time favorite president..notable hunter and conservationist Theodore Roosevelt, and many others throughout the years.



Many settlers and inhabitants of this nation supplemented their food supplies by shooting game to go along with the vegetables and other crops they grew for their own use.


As the need to use game as food declined, the desire to remain connected with our predecessors and our own inner "primal" urges remained. Still, real hunters (then and now) take only what can be used, never killing just to see something die.

If you know someone like that, please do not call them 'hunters'...call them what they are..inhumane slobs. Hunters won't abide thier company. Admittedly, there was and is a very small percentage of people who call themselves hunters, who will kill animals needlessly.

These are not hunters and they never have been, they are outlaws and poachers, and hunters refuse to be counted along with these miscreants.

Every activity has its good and bad participants, and to judge any group or activity based on the poor behavior of a few fools is both stupid and wrong.

TO BE CONTINUED…NATURALLY. I’VE GOT A LOT MORE TO SAY ABOUT HUNTING…..AND KILLING.


.
.







[Edited on 11-2-2011 by Pompano]

[Edited on 11-17-2011 by Pompano]

Thanks for the tour and great pics Pompano! Having grown up in Michigan, many hunters in the family, mainly uncles and cousins, I can begin to understand your love for the sport.

I never "got into" the hunting game, as I was always out fishing, or on a field or court involved in sports, Dad at a dragstrip 45 weekends a year, oldest of six kids, just no time.

If you get the same feelings I do while I'm on the ocean or lakes, while you hunt, you also are a lucky man!!

I have "killed" a great number of fish, and loved every one of them, deeply. It is not the "kill" that keeps me on the water as much as humanly and financially possible, it is the appreciation for the gifts of nature, beauty, vastness, and the bounty on my plate at dinner that night!!!

Keep on hunting and posting more great photos, please.

Oh, I've been "killing" a few dorado, on your old Trophy down here in La Paz, nice little boat. A friend bought it, and we fish pretty much every week.

Yup, it is a thrill Dennis. So are the whale sharks, whales, birds, baitfish schools covering acres of water, dolphin and porpoise crashing through, gulping down every sardina they can!

The sun rising at 6:30 in the morning over the Sea Of Cortez, and the clicker goes off on the first fish of the new day. One more frosty Pacifico as I turn towards the launch ramp.

The pelicans and gulls waiting for the scraps of remains as I clean the couple fish I did not release.
The smiles on the faces of the people I feed the freshest fish the've ever eaten.

OR, I can eat slaughtered cattle, pigs, sheep, goats, and chickens, raised in deplorable filth and confinement, every day of my life.

If I had ever gained a taste for venison, goose, duck, or elk, I would also be out hunting every chance I had. I eat what I kill, and only kill what I will use.

Head down to the local Soriana's, grab a steak, and enjoy! I'm sure it doesn't mind!!

I prefer my day on the water and a nice meal of fresh fish a few days a week, to offset some of the commercial crap food I enjoy, though I know they are not really good for me.

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass Head down to the local Soriana's, grab a steak, and enjoy! I'm sure it doesn't mind!!

nice touch with the raiders tribute!

Where to place my tree stands? Trail cams are set up, been downloading pics, no big bucks yet, a few small ones. Have pics of elk and bear. Getting a new scope on my rifle. Been viewing Google Maps. Hunting's gone hi-tech!

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS Quote: Originally posted by bajabass Head down to the local Soriana's, grab a steak, and enjoy! I'm sure it doesn't mind!! Well....you can make all the assumptions necessary to justify your activities. I'm sure guessing at mine is easier than addressing YOUR issues....which is morphing from disinginuity to self delusionment to outright lying. Jeeeezo....where do you guys go from here? -------------- Conversation between two Stewards of Life on the deck of a sport-fisher heading to the Killing Fields: "Hey, Gus...you all set up with your heavy gear to tear into these gosh darnm Tunas and stuff out here?" Gus grabs his fishing rod off the rail like he wants to choke it and says, "Hell yea, Tank. I didn't come all the way out here to mess around. I came here to be a Naturalist. See this here pole? I made it myself. This thing wouldn't bend if it snagged a runaway freight train and that's the way I likes it 'cause I'm a concerned sportsman. How's about you? Are you ready?" Tank spits, but it kinda doesn't go far and streaks an oily trail down the front of his Raider jacket. "Yep. I'm all set. Right now, I'm feeling as one with our Creator 'cause I'm doing His work to interact with another of His miracles, a noble species of the water kingdom 'cause, jes like you, Gus, I'm a Naturalist and lover of nature and see it as my duty to catch these suckers by pulling out their guts with this here big-ass stainless steel hook and gaffing them to burger getting them on board. Say...Gus............didja ever use one of these Triple-Quad-Hex Hooks? These muthas will put a stop to anything in the water, from a Naturalist point of view anyway, which is of course our concern. I once snagged a Blue Fin right in the eye and had the most fun of my life getting that pile o' cat food on deck. Pretty much tore off half his gawwwdammmm face doin it, but you know me....I don't give up. That's because I'm a concerned fisherman and I care about these animals. I care when........well....sumpin. I wish I could eat fish, but I can't stand the smelly stuff. I do like to catch them though, 'cause I'm a Naturalist and I care." Gus laid his rod back across the rail, looked at Tank and said, "You ain't quite there yet, but someday, when you done had more learnin' like me, you'll be a Naturalist too, Son." A dad and his boy, bonding on the water. What a glorius day. --------------- May I pose a simple question to all you sportsmen out there: Do fish feel pain when your hooks rip them apart and gaffs impale them to be slammed to the deck? Do they know they've been seperated from their families to more often than not end up in a smoker....or a trash can? I'm just askin'. I figure at least one of you Naturalists will have an answer that makes sense.

I don't insult nonhunters, nor attempt to analyze their reasons for being nonhunters. Different strokes for different folks. But why do people find it necessary to insult people?

Usually to make themselves feel better about themselves Cypress. They don't have personal issues, they have subscriptions!!!

If my reasons were pointless, as has been noted by two of our great thinkers, there would be nothing to respond to.
The mere existance of a response of any kind illustrates the impact of my points and that they will only be argued here with blind denial.

The refuge of any proponent of a weak or non-existant rebuttal is to deny the existance of a stronger arguement.


Hey....did you Outdoorsmen see this:

http://home.indy.net/~ama/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpict...


How about one of these for your game management concerns:

http://operatorchan.org/k/arch/src/k124204_Ontos.jpg


Did you ever wonder how few casinos would be scattered across the US if Custer had just one of these:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4XTVSQmaGf4/S8RW7jeaPVI/AAAAAAAAAJ...



.

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass Usually to make themselves feel better about themselves Cypress. They don't have personal issues, they have subscriptions!!!

More street corner "sign throwing" by a violent, leaderless mob.

Someday!

Awww...thanks Mon Sherí.
The "back to nature mob" here has blown my original intent way out of proportion, the personal reasons for hunting. I firmly believe the main attraction for this "Pin-Head Platoon" is to KILL.
Do they ever go to a shooting range? How many shoot at a target of concentric circles rather than a silhouette of a man?

"Game Management"...my arse.
"Hunting to eat"...my other arse. Perhaps the game is eaten but it's not a method for survival.....so lets not use that one.

Say it like it is....You guys hunt for the thrill of the kill. The Pump of Power.
Deny that and you're lying.

I'm in my trench now awaiting another bumbling attack from this army of Hemmingways and Audie Murphys led by the audacious General Goat.
Bring it on, you frauds, but keep in mind....I'll be visiting Sharky's in a little while for a strategy planning session.

Meet my Army.




.

I'm not defending hunters. There're more than enough "slob hunters" to cast a shadow over hunting. Maybe it's in my genes? It's just something that I enjoy. Killing? Now that's a different story. Mixed feelings, happy with a successful hunt and saddened by the death of a beautiful animal. Weird? The term "conundrum" might apply.

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress "conundrum" might apply.

That's what those terrible Goose hunters are supposed to use when they pile up in those cramped blinds.
Hunting is all about safety...ya know.

No, I don't know. Tell me about it.

Poachers could be tracked through their DNA

So if you are not doing the killing, all is good???? &%#$@ !!!! Let someone else do the dirty work??? *&%$@#!!! Your hands are clean, that is all that matters.

I can only speak for myself and I do not wish to criticize others. My best is to try and not target individuals but rather, the object of the discussion. I said "try",although sometimes I slip.

Roger is a friend. He is a big man who lives large. We are most often at opposite ends of the political spectrum but we can sit down and discuss our differences without any residual animosity.

Roger has an imposing presence and carves his path with a swill and a swagger. Some people are offended by that. I am not. One thing that helps is that he has many endearing qualities. Face to face he is a kind, respectful gentleman, and he has not betrayed me behind my back.

Roger is the best Photojournalist on this forum. His photography and storytelling skills are spellbinding. In my opinion, his work is publishable and marketable!



So, to the topic-

I do not like hunting! The thought of it conjures an emotional response of sadness. As a child, I shot a bird out of a tree with a BB gun to see what killing feels like. I had an unexpected and immediate response of horror and remorse. I wished I could have reversed the action I had taken to end that bird's life. I knew right then and there that I would never do that again.

As for enjoying the outdoors, the splendid scenery and wildlife that nature provides, I can get that by backpacking and shooting with my camera...and do. In the Northern California Gold Country my house is located in a vacation wonderland. On my property many species of wildlife come up from the canyon and wander. I can sit on my deck at dawn or dusk and watch the parade.

We have bear, deer, fox, coyote, raccoon, skunk and mountain lion too. (I have never seen a mountain lion, on my property but have seen them in the neighborhood). Mountain lion is the only species I fear, mostly for my dog who will chase anything. He tore down the hill to confront a huge, Volkswagen-sized bear. The bear turned around and started to go back down the hill and my dog bit him on the butt. Obviously, neither he nor the bear knows what could happen.

Finally, to tie this in with Baja-

I have had two different boats in Mulege. To get out on the water adds at least another 50% to the quality of life there. Just to be out there is the thrill for me. Here comes the confession: I like to fish! Is that hypocritical? Perhaps it could be judged so by some others. I have questioned it myself and have decided it is not.

I think that fish, being a cold water animal, does not feel pain to the degree that a warm blooded animal does. I really don't know this for a fact, but I cannot relate to a fish like I can to other animals. I can look it in the eye and not feel much empathy. I cannot do that with an animal or a bird.

One time, when I kept a couple of exotic Chinese Goldfish, I would tell people that I prefer "them to other pets because they enable me to work on my social skills." But they were fat and stupid. They overate and ended up permanently swimming and floating upside down. I eventually sent them to the ocean through the toilet.

I prefer to go out on my own boat rather than on other's because I want to come in when I feel like it rather that trying to catch the last fish of the day. I am a fair weather fisherman too. I hate being cold. I only catch what I can eat. I am not a passionate fisherman. I enjoy catching a pinto bass as much as a Yellowtail. It is not about the fight. You don't even know you have a Pinto Bass until you start to reel in. It feels just like you have an old waterlogged shoe on your hook. They sure are good eating though. Just being on the water is the thrill for me.

So... cut Roger some slack. He is passionate about everything! If you disagree, state it along with your reasons, but to attack him is pointless.

Edited to say: While I was writing this Ridge posted with the same BB gun experience, killing a bird as a child, and had the same immediate revulsion. Maybe he and I are lucky that we had that experience early on.

A similar early experience probably prevented me from becoming an alcoholic. (Two beers or glasses of wine is my limit. Roger, or anyone else who knows me will attest to that). When I was 15 and too young to drive, I went out with some 16 year old friends in a station wagon. I wanted to see what it feels like to get drunk. Well, I chugged a sixpack of Stout Malt Liquor. We went to the movies. I started to black out and barfed on a woman's head in the seat in front of me and down the neck of her blouse. The poor woman was screaming and my friends bolted for the exits, laughing. I was deserted, helplessly sitting like Gumby in my theater seat, unable to move. The manager and ushers came and escorted me out the front door and threw me on the sidewalk. My friends picked me up and when I got home and in bed, I vomited all over my pillow. It was in my hair and I was ill there for two days. My mother came into the room and the smell drove her out and she slammed the door. She left me in there for two days to suffer without her help. To this day, if I have more than two drinks, I start to feel nauseous and stop. I have never really been drunk since.

[Edited on 9-10-2011 by toneart]

I do love to fish but never felt the draw to hunting. Even when we fish we immediately release anything that will not be served on our table that evening. Just seems like the right thing to do.

This is one of those arguments that will rarely ever convince anybody to change their opinion so with that disclaimer I'll add my dos centavos as a non-hunter.

Our family includes several avid hunters and every single one of them fits Rogers description to the letter of what a good hunter should be. In fact I know that at least a couple of them have turned in varmints who were hunting outside the law and it is something that angers all of them greatly.

When I hear them talk about their times shared hunting with friends I have never once heard any of them talk about a "thrill" in seeing an animal die. In fact they take a lot of care to make sure that they can get a clean shot at an animal that will not let it escape, wounded. That includes passing up a shot if they are not convinced that will happen.

When I stop to think of my motivations for fishing they strongly parallel Roger's reasons for hunting. Sharing time with good friends, enjoying a beautiful day out on the water, watching the dolphins, seals and other wildlife and the hope of landing some great fish for dinner. The strike is a "thrill" and being able to bring a great tuna, white sea bass or halibut aboard is always an experience as they never make it easy.

The thought of enjoying it for the "thrill" of killing a fish is something I fail to comprehend and yet I will not argue with others who believe that. Maybe there is something in their past that made a strong impression and I respect that. I am sure there may be some out there who may get that "thrill" from seeing a fish / animal die and those are simply psychopaths. They really have no place in this discussion IMHO.

We have a huge responsibility to care for this environment in which we live and from which we also eat. We are who we are, created by our Maker as hunters and gatherers and this thread certainly won't change any of that.

Peace, love and fish (or veggie) tacos...





[Edited on 9-10-2011 by BajaGringo]

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass So if you are not doing the killing, all is good???? &%#$@ !!!! Let someone else do the dirty work??? *&%$@#!!! Your hands are clean, that is all that matters.

Hunters are a different breed. Non-hunters? They're all the same.

If i was about money Most people wouldnt get involved.
Any form of hunting or fishing nets pound for pound the most expensive meat you can consume.
I know a lot of people use the same logic about traveling in a R.V.
My feeling is if you can afford it and it doesnt break the law go for it I really like Rogers post and travelog and for whatever reason he does it I for one hopes he keeps it up.

A Great Feeling of Accomplishment

Do ya mean the smell... as it has have a kinda "cow sh*t" smell.. but what would one expect...

Aaaaahhh ... where ya want to put them... and trying to keep them in tall green grass is a pretty hard one to do.. for all their lives ... until there are need for food... ya know like Japan's Kobe Beef ... WOW what a jolt to the consumers of In-and-Out .... let see Kobe is around $300/lb... let's see a double double with cheese... what ya figure around $75 dollars...

Rang land has a certain carrying capacity... it's just does.. and too bring them along in tall green grass is pretty hard to find and/or do .. and creates problems for the "use" of the animal.. to start... where to the slaughter and where will packing occur, where and how will all by products be dealt with.. next storage, distribution and marketing..

Harris Feed lot along with American Agriculture serves a purpose in producing food for literally billions of people ... think not check on some of our treaties along with our support for "Help" agencies for people that are starving... and were not even producing at max levels...

Long way from hunting... the production of Food and Fiber... but, there is one common link ... plants and animals used for food and clothing... of humans and other species... of animals.. check the costs on money spent on Pets.. hey doesn't Pom have a couple of those setting on his dash... at times

Good to have ya back Pomano... really start things out with a BANG

Perfectly normal and natural. Psychiatric care is recommended for childern that enjoy killing. Well, either that or a hunting license.

I Read Pompano's Posting Early On

Hunting, Gun Ownership, Abortion, Religion, Politics, GPS Points and surf spots all come down to one's beliefs and and the assumption that the other side is clueless. All the posts and all of the lip bashing never convince the other side to change their views. Both sides KNOW THEY ARE RIGHT.
I love a great story, like this one started out. I love a great rant, like this is now. I hope both continue.
MMc

i can't wait to try that one! now, if i could just get my son to help me out a bit!

revulsion

"judgemental" might be a more correct word.

Barry

"judgemental"
Especially today. "judgemental" would be anyone disagreeing with your judgement is wrong. KaBOOM
Narrow minded zealots

"Live" bear, I hope. Thanks Toots.

The Longest Silence

Quote:

Originally posted by Russ "judgemental" Especially today. "judgemental" would be anyone disagreeing with your judgement is wrong. KaBOOM Narrow minded zealots

In n Out Meat

I wonder if the new "In N Out" La Paz JesseBurgers are made from over the hill almost dead cows.

THE HUNTING THREAD - CHAPTER 2

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano “Farming as we do it is hunting, and in the sea we act like barbarians. “ Jacques Yves Cousteau THE HUNTING THREAD – CHAPTER 2 - ‘FRIENDSHIP’..and some other personal stuff. First, many thanks from Up North Baja to all who have contributed to this thread about Hunting and Hunters….AND TO THOSE WHO EMAILED ME TO REPOST THIS after I removed it yesterday. I apologize for listening to those damn 'voices'. Plus I think that this ‘friendship’ post might be apropos to the outpouring of good will and fellowship extended to our amigos, Ron & Cristina. Damn fine people who need some TLC at this point. ‘Nuff said…on with the post about hunting and friends. HUNTING. One of the many things that I like about The Hunt is that it indeed strengthens friendships. Hunting together creates bonds that last a lifetime. Therefore this part of my thread is going to be a celebration of some fine Hunting friends….Life friends. Note: I like hunting and how it forms solid, lasting relationships. Also, I DO like writing & sharing thoughts and feelings about experiences, travels, and good friends. And I sincerely hope you like reading about them…. …...otherwise I can get 'real boring' telling you about this ND weather we’re having. FRIENDSHIP? Many people's understanding of friendship in northern societies is rather thin. When approaching the notion of friendship, our first problem is a lack of firmly agreed and socially acknowledged criteria for what makes a person a friend? In one setting we may describe someone as a friend, in another the label may seem less appropriate. What defines a friend? For example, Aristotle suggests that the traditional idea of friendship has three components: -'Friends must enjoy each other's company - they must be useful to one another, -and they must share a common commitment to the good' Hunting provides all three…and very well. Commentators like Ray Pahl have argued that friendship is becoming an increasingly important 'social glue'. Today, many societies are held together by very different social bonds than from three centuries before. The act of Hunting reflects our society's belief that loving or honoring a person or an endeavor gives us the confidence to believe in ourselves and fulfill all our hopes and dreams, ergo... make us happy. As so this thread about Hunting continues…. with the theme of ‘friendship’ in mind.…I hope! Yes, yes.. there WILL be some discussion later: There are further hunting concepts to explore...like Why we Hunt and KILL.....but that chapter is yet to come. Like I said, this part of the thread is about Friendship. Kind of like Peace, Love, and Fish Tacos, si? 'BUILDING RELATIONSHIPS' - ‘CAMRADERIE’ Hunting Creates Friends For Life ”MI COMPADRE, RANDY” ……………………1949 North Dakota Buds………………………………………………………………….62 years later Still Buds in North Dakota What can I say about best friend and hunting buddy, Randy? He is part of me. We were born 2 months apart in the same Mayberry-like rural area of ND. Our folks were country people on working ranches. We were babies in the same bassinette when our moms rolled us around our ranch. Already hunting life’s experiences, no doubt....which were most likely butterflies landing on our noses? We’ve been inseparable ever since, even during the very busy times of our different careers. Hunting is in our blood by way of our parents and forefathers. Everyone hunted some…and some better than others. Indeed, hunting is a common bond of our surrounding rural community, where group pheasant and deer drives were attended by 50-60 neighbors/friends from far & wide. These were 3-4 day events, with turkey shoots, a polka, and a huge barbeque as the finale. Back in the day, neighbors in those ND boondocks were not exactly just down the block....or even just over the hill. Our fathers and uncles hunted together and shared a common love of wilderness and appreciation of natural things. They passed this knowledge on to us…and also the responsibility that accompanies it. We made good choices of parents…Randy and I. Randy and I ...best of friends throughout our lives of hunting & fishing together…enjoying Nature. From birth to present day, we are a team in the field! And it's a damn good thing that at least ONE of us can hit what he's aiming at!! Right, Chief Thunderpants? Whatever would I do without you?.......or your license for that extra limit? By the way, you are a very good fisherman! Both Randy and I are members of Pheasants Forever and contribute funds annually to the preservation of natural habitat and the promotion of conservative hunting limits. That fact certainly increases our upland bird hunting enjoyment….which includes pheasants, Hungarian partridge, sharptail grouse, ruffed grouse, sage hens, prairie chicken, pinnated grouse, Franklins grouse, spruce grouse, fools hen, quail, doves, chickadees, canaries, robins, parakeets, and the odd Pterosaur. At his comfortable residence in Lake Elmo, MN…Randall makes some great Thanksgiving Egg Nog con Brandy for Co-pilot and me. He lives in his own nature preserve ..(no, he does not hunt there)…with wild turkey, raccoon, and deer coming to his patio door. Geese fly overhead and poop on him. Using an IQ that is off the charts, Randy was a very successful research scientist and company director for 3-M, besides doing some super-secret STUFF for the US Navy Weapons Dept that he is close-mouthed about even to this day…dammit. . Now finally retired with a few well-earned patents and a golden parachute from 3-M. Randy’s golden in more ways than that parachute….indeed, a golden heart....and the most upbeat, generous, and caring person I know. He is blessed with a lovely and loving wife, Ginny. Randy also has a great resolve and presence of mind. He’s been fighting Parkinson’s since 2004, but never alludes to his never-ending battle. His love of the hunt keeps him focused on supporting wildlife in a big way. . I'm Damn proud of you, amigo. As a comparison to Randy’s impressive intellect, here I display my own IQ , which does not register any number at all. We are returning the kitchen favor to Randy with some fresh-hunted cabrilla and cold brews at my place in Coyote Bay, Baja. Ah, Randy…My life would not be the same without you as my best friend & hunting companion. I love you as a brother. We’ve taken some kind of hunting and adventure travel around the globe together each year since we turned 14. (that first year we made a U-turn around the continental USA) . We’ve canoed the remote rivers of Far North Canada…’true’ wilderness. We’ve floated for peac-ck bass on the Amazon, hunted mallards on the Nile and silver teal in Uruquay and Argentina. We’ve waded the shallows of Christmas Island and laughed our burros off at the rocketing bonefish. We look forward to each new adventure-hunt, while sorting through our gear and eagerly plotting a new hunt to whoever is choosing the place that year. Now, after more than 50 years of hunting & fishing together, we’ve seen a lot of the world, but we still some treks to make, right amigo? ”Hasta Pronto, amigos! See you guys in Baja and Panama this winter. We’ll have lots of red on hand…and even a dirty martini or two for those stimulating conversations.” ANOTHER life-long friendship that started with a Hunting Trip: THE TWO ROGERS ...........................................Me .............................. My late dear friend, Roger Page nomad 'aquaholic' HUNTING brought us together that first time..and love of nature was the glue that sealed our friendship over many years. Above we are back from a fun 1965 smelt hunt on Lake Superior’s feeder streams. Bagged and sold to Red Owl grocery stores for 10 cents a pound….paid for our gas and beer. Like with Randy, Roger and I did pretty much anything connected to nature, wilderness, and wildlife. And…we managed to play a little poker and shoot some pool along the way. Way back in the day, Roger followed my lead to discover Baja…and he fell in love, too…in more ways than one. (explanation: A few of us pirates shanghaied his future wife for him off of a sailboat anchored in Sta. Rosalia…but that’s a whole different story.) Myself, Roger, and my Dad with others aboard the trimaran “Meshach” 1988 Baja’s SOC Note: We are now going to take a Short Story detour: Two of Roger’s many close friends were a veteran SOC sailor named John and his first mate and wife, Christy. Their shore home at that time was Chula Vista, Ca. Roger and his wife, Karen also lived in San Diego when not in Baja and often baby-sat for John and Christy’s son, Lucas. A bunch of years ago in Baja, I met John thru Roger and enjoyed many good times sailing the Cortez with John and his wife, Christy….. before his tragic and fatal ultra-light plane accident near their home in Wyoming, 2004. John was a very kind and plain person, plus a highly decorated war-hero in Vietnam. His love of hunting and wilderness areas paralleled mine and Roger’s. We hunted quail, doves, ducks, and mule deer together several times in Baja and mainland Mexico. I knew this mild-mannered and quiet John W. for about 6 years before finding out by sheer accident that he was also a member of a very unique and wealthy family. One winter, long ago, I had been invited by John to his home in Chula Vista, Ca . It was his father’s birthday celebration. I remember packing on ice a nice big yellowtail to roast over the grill. I arrived and was introduced to John’s father, Sam, a very nice man with a pleasing southern drawl…like John’s. Said Happy Birthday, Mr. Walton and shook his hand....and then went inside the old restored home for a cold brew. My buddy, Roger, came over to me and said…”You really don’t have a clue as to who you just met…DO you?” I said, “Yes I do, that’s John’s dad, dummy. Nice guy, too, just like John.” Roger said, “Okay..pay good attention now. Sam? Walton? Sam Walton? Walmart? Duh?? Ring any bells, dufus?” Needless to say…I was discombobbilated. But in reality, you’d never remotely imagine John as the son of multi-billionaire Sam Walton.. or imagine John himself as one of the world’s richest people at the time. John was in the books at around 6 billion dollars in 1988, I believe. Whew! That’s a pile of pesos. Not unexpectedly, my bosom buddy, Roger, attracted good people…and vice versa. Good hunting experiences and good attitudes about the natural world promoted our mutual friendships. (Anecdote to this short story: John also became a good friend to my father when my visiting family was invited for a day’s cruise aboard ‘Meshack’ out of Coyote Bay. Dad and John hit it off pretty good...sharing some similar hunting and military experiences, I suspect. A year later, 1989, when my father was close to his final days in a cancer ward in Fargo, John flew there to visit him…because John was a caring man. I know that visit pleased my father very much. The world loses too many good men like my father and John and Roger…some of the too few good guys. I sincerely believe their mutual love of hunting and it’s traditions helped to give them their strength of character….and that is MY opinion, of course) Roger and I took many Far North trips to wilderness areas….some we drove thru logging trails to reach, some we flew to, and some we canoed and portaged to…but wherever we went our most precious equipment was our love of The Hunt. While backpacking or canoeing, we would only shoot to eat, but we were young hungry men and ate often. Rabbits and fools hen at portages, ducks paddling the sloughs; deer was far too much meat, so those were not hunted...nor were moose and elk. I can’t say I would like a steady diet of porcupine…a mite greasy. Walleyes were everywhere in the lakes and rivers. Without a doubt the best eating fish in the world…BAR NONE! We pone-assed them. Lots of times in the summers, Roger and I also took my old 16’ Lund on many hunts to Far North Canada…and some rather dangerous boat-camping excursions into the ‘bush’. Then, in the winters, we would gather with friends like Prof. John at mi casa on The Hill near Posada in the Bay of Conception. We had sooo many great times….Life is good…and full of camaraderie amongst fellow hunters. MORE ON ROGER We met in 1963 on a whitefronted goose hunt near Minot, ND and became instant best friends. Hunting, fishing, and the natural world were the catalysts of our close friendship, which lasted throughout the USA, Canada, all over South America, parts of Europe, and finally to Baja, where Roger purchased my old house on the hill above Posada community. We had SOME kind of times. A nicer guy you never meet. A true gentleman in every respect. People would talk of Roger as one of the most polite and brightest people they had ever met. All who met him liked him instantly….as I did. Roger passed after a long fight with cancer. I spent that last summer with him in Seattle. We rehashed every greenhead, pronghorn, and muley buck we had ever hunted over many whiskey sodas. Good flights, amigo, and keep ‘em flying up there. Your boots, cap, call, and coat on my porch.. Your favorite Winchester 101 OU is hanging over the fireplace. You are with me and All is well, compadre. Note: Scene from my Coyote casa veranda: Hunting friends gather in Baja ---Randy (The Purple Sage), Roger (aquaholic), and new amigo, George (Don Jorge) all visit a few days at mi Coyote Casa about 3 years ago. A very poignant visit. It was to be Roger’s/aquaholic’s last time in Baja before passing away the following year at his home in Seattle. He knew his time was coming fast, and would never let on to us….but we knew anyway. Every morning for a few years previous, Randy, Roger, and I would have a 3-way coffee get-together via our computers over the Internet. Randy in Lake Elmo, MN…Roger in Seattle…and me in Coyote Bay. We called it the Baja Triangle as we all loved this place so much. Those were some very rewarding and valuable times…greetings, topics of the day, plus talking about all our hunts together over the years. Damn…how I miss the 3-way morning talks….and setting out those decoys with Rog. Hunting friends from varied professions and political beliefs. Hunters cover all walks of life…literally. Our common bonds are preserving wildlife and the environment. Top left pic: 2004. Organic farmer & Nomad Don Jorge on a ND pheasant shoot, second from right. Bottom left pic: 2009. Military. Gavin and Dad, Munga. Check the son's height compared to Dad's. Top right pic: 1999. Lifelong hunter-compadres dentist Mike (liberal) and research scientist Randy (conservative) gather willows for goose blind material. Bottom right pic: 1987. Sandhill crane hunters and friends for life. Munga is very young..2nd from left. I am kneeling in the middle. “The Crane Wreck” ……………..Folks from very different backgrounds, occupations, and philosophical positions… but they all are Hunters. Here we are after a sandhill crane hunt in ND near my Duk Shak. From Left to Right - hunting friends: occupations and their political positions: fighter pilot .....................conservative military commander...........conservative except with ammo NYC detective w/wife.........liberals Baja bum........................believes in tooth fairy artist, sculptor..................charmingly ultra liberal auto-insurance exec..........disgustingly liberal banker/skeet-trap expert....sexily liberal Sept 6, 2011..present day. You can see that son Gavin is fast catching up to Dad, Munga. The before photo above is just 2 hunting seasons ago. Here’s a photo of our crew from 6 years ago in our Duk Shak cantina. As you can see, Gavin’s a tadpole here, but has the beginning love of Hunting, like his dad. Kids grow so dang fast, so it’s great that the memories of their younger-day hunts will be with them forever. Tradition is not gone, just clouded a bit in non-hunting families…or so it seems to me. I should explain a bit right now about why I felt compelled to write about a subject that I knew would generate a lot of honest & heartfelt flak from folks I like and respect……true nature lovers like me ... ....and of course, my bloodthirsty previous Co-pilot. ..................................................................................."Tesoro! Hunt one of these pretty buffalo animals, I use my knife on you, amore..zip-zip!" “POOR ANIMALS!! PIG!! AND WHAT have you done with their BREASTS?? MALEDETTO PERVERTITO!! ” Co-Pilot casually mentioned when inspecting a dinner at the cleaning table some time ago. But, Hey!,,, she’s Italian-emotional …and sort of good-looking.. Anyway..…so why make myself such an easy target in this photo shoot from the Far North about HUNTING? AND on a forum that is so predominately anti-hunter?? My answer is quite simple…If I win just one of you readers over to love or become better informed about REAL hunting and REAL hunters, then it is worthwhile. Hey, America is on enough of a slippery slope already. (Plus I have a high tolerance to pain, having been married twice to beautiful women with excellent shooting skills.) One step program: "My name is Roger and I am a Hunter." .....Lock n’ load, nomads. I did. Hunters don’t hide their enthusiasm for The Hunt. We’re pretty open about our passion and will bore you to death with our experiences and feelings. In my case, most everyone I meet soon learns I'm a lifelong hunter/fisherman, outside guy and always have some gamefood on the grill. The fish, antelope, muledeer, and mother-in-law mounts on the wall in my game room are a giveaway, I suspect. So I'm continuously being asked at patio parties and fancy soirees THIS QUESTION: Why I hunt with a gun and kill?…. when we could just as easily stalk our prey with a camera or binoculars, just for the thrill of being up close with a deer, turkey, or other game animal? BECAUSE USING A PLUNGER JUST WOULDN’T BE THE SAME!! To be continued naturally, cuz I’m eager to talk… and hopefully promote… HUNTING. SALUD, RON & CRISTINA! BEST WISHES, GOOD LUCK, AND HEAL FAST. WE NEED YOU BACK HERE, MUY PRONTO!.

Sounds like a stream full of Thorazine patients, Igor.
I fully understand myself and the points I clearly make. I do.
I even understand people who don't understand me. I do that too.
But....to say there are fifty million people that don't understand why they do what they do.....well, that's going to require some deep thought on my part.
And here all this time I simply thought those fifty million people just wanted to kill a fish. I had no idea they were just overwhelmed with love and understanding for the creatures.
Now I know.


Sorry that I've been distracted by that other thread today. It kinda took my mind off of my points. I'll be back......you can count on it.

Hunters and Gatherers and etc.

Got my tree stands ready, sighting-in my rifle next week. By the way, this morning a grizzly killed a bear hunter about 8 miles from where I live. One of his hunting partners shot and killed the grizzly.

Thanks for the invitation to a war, but I'll pass.

Hunting......Why is it good when man does it, but bad when a Bear tries his paw at it?
Maybe you guys shouldn't call it hunting. Call it "Thinning" or something self-righteous like that.

You power-**** frauds hate when the playing field is leveled.

"Oh sht...call the police. My hunting trip went bad."

Just like punks in an HOA who start a fight with their neighbor and lose.