BajaNomad

Hantavirus Infected Mice In Northern Baja?

Woooosh - 9-27-2011 at 09:59 AM

I know there are certain mice that carry and transmit the Hantavirus. Does anyone know if one of these specific breeds are common house-mice in Baja Norte?

I have been incredibly sick the past two weeks. Pneumonia followed by strep throat with laryngitis followed by pneumonia again. So sore from coughing I had to lay over a table to cough so as not to be in pain. I couldn't talk or breathe for a few days and thought I was going to cough up a lung (or both). If not for one of the broncho-dilators asthmatics use- I think I would have died from all the fluid in my lungs. I was so dizzy for a few days I could not roll over in bed or sit up without falling back over. A few of my neighbors had strep throat- so I figured that was it.

Anyone ever run into something similar? I did find out the sandwich roll I found torn in half and ate- had the other half eaten by house mice. I should have figured no one in my house eats half of anything and puts in back. It did make a tasty tuna melt though... :)

[Edited on 9-27-2011 by Woooosh]

DENNIS - 9-27-2011 at 10:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
I know there are certain mice that carry and transmit the Hantavirus. Does anyone know if one of these specific breeds are common house-mice in Baja Norte?



The large Disney cruise ship stopped in Ensenada a few days back and they wouldn't allow Mickey to come ashore for the reason you mention above.
It was a sad day for the local kids. :no:

Woooosh - 9-27-2011 at 10:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
I know there are certain mice that carry and transmit the Hantavirus. Does anyone know if one of these specific breeds are common house-mice in Baja Norte?



The large Disney cruise ship stopped in Ensenada a few days back and they wouldn't allow Mickey to come ashore for the reason you mention above.
It was a sad day for the local kids. :no:


I hope they did the Rosarito to Ensenada race and hopped aboard...



[Edited on 9-27-2011 by Woooosh]

Hantavirus

Steve in Oro Valley - 9-27-2011 at 10:22 AM

Peromyscus spp. (Cactus Mouse or Deer Mouse) carry Hantavirus and do occur in our area --- Baja California and the SW USA...

2 weeks is a long time to suffer from this virus.... I believe you would die sooner if you have Hantavirus..


Google Hantavirus or use Wikipedia for more info..


Steve in Oro Valley

Woooosh - 9-27-2011 at 10:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Steve in Oro Valley
Peromyscus spp. (Cactus Mouse or Deer Mouse) carry Hantavirus and do occur in our area --- Baja California and the SW USA...

2 weeks is a long time to suffer from this virus.... I believe you would die sooner if you have Hantavirus..

Google Hantavirus or use Wikipedia for more info..

Steve in Oro Valley


Thanks. The first thing I noticed (after connecting mice to the illness) is there is no specific course of treatment for hantavirus. A hospital would make sure your lungs were clear. I think if you live past the fluid in your lungs you are OK- 35% die before that point. The antibiotics I took helped the strep, but would do nothing for a virus.

I am trapping the mice (3 last night) - is there a place in Baja to get them tested?

krafty - 9-27-2011 at 10:43 AM

What did your doc say? You did go to a doc, didn't you?

Bugman - 9-27-2011 at 10:59 AM

I am not sure how this got on the fishing thread but here goes my answer. Hantavirus has several strains which tend to be specific to certain species of mice. Only one of these strains (Sin Nombre virus) is known to be potentially deadly to humans. It is usually carried by the deer mouse (P. maniculatus) but the jury is still out on whether it might be possible for some cross contamination to occur to other mouse species. You contract the virus by inhaling aerosolized virus particles from fresh mouse urine or feces. This is why the recommended cleanup procedures for rodent droppings never include vacuuming or sweeping. It is recommended that the area be spritzed with a disinfectant and then mopped or wiped up with a damp cloth. The good news is that it is pretty hard to get this stuff even if you break most of the common sense rules since the droppings need to be so fresh. The symptoms usually come on somewhat flu like but if you react like most documented cases it won't be long before you end up in the hospital with extreme difficulty breathing. For more info the CDC has a lot of info on their website as does the County of San Diego (sdvector.com) with a map showing local areas where positive mice have been found. With all the rain this winter there has been more mice and unfortunately, more mice found with hanta as well. To help put it in perspective though, they find positive mice every year but to date there has only been one confirmed human case contracted in San Diego since they started looking for this disease back in the mid 90's. As always, if you feel sick enough to go to the doctor make sure you tell him/her about any possible exposures so they have complete information on which to base any diagnosis or needed tests. I hope you are feeling better soon even if the fish may not share that sentiment!! :cool:

Woooosh - 9-27-2011 at 11:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by krafty
What did your doc say? You did go to a doc, didn't you?

Nope. My mother in law said the cough sounded like the kind that goes away on its own. That was good enough for me.

(Both my parents died in hospitals from secondary infections unrelated to what they were admitted for. I don't know why I pay for full health care insurance, because it is unlikely I would even use it unless to set a broken bone)

What kind of mouse is this little guy?




[Edited on 9-27-2011 by Woooosh]

SFandH - 9-27-2011 at 11:16 AM

Wait a minute, hold the presses. You have pneumonia and you didn't go to a doctor. :?:

Incredible!

How do you know it's pneumonia? How do you know it's a virus? Pneumonia can permanently damage your lungs, even kill you. Plus you may be infecting others around you.

A sputum sample, a chest x-ray, a microbiologist, and modern medicines from a doctor can do wonders.

[Edited on 9-27-2011 by SFandH]

Cypress - 9-27-2011 at 11:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
What kind of mouse is this little guy?

Just a guess, but I'm gonna thinking it's a dead mouse.:biggrin:

Woooosh - 9-27-2011 at 11:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SFandH
Wait a minute, hold the presses. You have pneumonia and you didn't go to a doctor. :?:

Incredible!

How do you know it's pneumonia? How do you know it's a virus? Pneumonia can permanently damage your lungs, even kill you. Plus you may be infecting others around you.

A sputum sample, a chest x-ray, a microbiologist, and modern medicines from a doctor can do wonders.

[Edited on 9-27-2011 by SFandH]


I don't know what I had. I do know my lungs were pretty full of fluid and only the inhaler allowed me to cough the flem up. I think the dizziness was lack of oxygen. I am more concerned about going to a hospital to get checked out for pneumonia and coming back with TB (which is prevalent here right now). Hospitals is where the sick people are. On my next check-up with the Doc, I'll tell him about it but last time I went in he chased me down the hall asking when he could schedule a colonoscopy...

Bugman - 9-27-2011 at 11:37 AM

The mouse in the pic looks like a regular house mouse but would be helpful to see more of the tail to be sure. If just a regular house mouse they don't carry hantavirus. I think you might live if the doctor does not kill you for not coming in sooner .....;)

Woooosh - 9-27-2011 at 11:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bugman
The mouse in the pic looks like a regular house mouse but would be helpful to see more of the tail to be sure. If just a regular house mouse they don't carry hantavirus. I think you might live if the doctor does not kill you for not coming in sooner .....;)

what's on the tail? No puff of hair on the end like a lion- if that is what identifies it. yeah, My. Doctor has never been thrilled with my aversion to him and all the tests he wants to do prevent something that is inevitable- death. The Repulicans have made sure I don't die from over-taxation. ;)

[Edited on 9-27-2011 by Woooosh]

DENNIS - 9-27-2011 at 11:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
The Repulicans have made sure I don't die from over-taxation. ;)



Well...one can hope. :biggrin:

Bugman - 9-27-2011 at 12:33 PM

One of the things to look for on a deer mouse is the short and distinctly two colored tail (dark on top light on the bottom). The mouse in your pic does not appear to have a bicolor tail.

Woooosh - 9-27-2011 at 12:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bugman
One of the things to look for on a deer mouse is the short and distinctly two colored tail (dark on top light on the bottom). The mouse in your pic does not appear to have a bicolor tail.

Good to know. I'll check out the ones I catch tonight. Thanks.

vandenberg - 9-27-2011 at 01:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh

Good to know. I'll check out the ones I catch tonight. Thanks.


Maybe time to buy a flute and play pied piper.:?::?::biggrin:

Bugman - 9-27-2011 at 01:19 PM

Best way to deal with mice is to exclude them in the first place. They only need an opening the size of a dime to get in. Basically, if the head will fit the body will follow (even if bigger than the head). This is easier said than done in some cases but the piece of mind is worth the extra effort to find and plug all those openings. The usual spots are under doors, around plumbing and electrical entry points, attic vents, roofing gaps or just leaving windows and doors open after dark.

mcfez - 9-27-2011 at 01:42 PM

Woooosh....
Here's a real head banger.....cleaning up the mouse poop with a vacuum or broom.......is a very dangerous thing to do! The particles from that poop takes to the air......and then yacks!. I learned this from the farm Management classes.

Oh....see a Doctor for Gods sake!

Woooosh - 9-27-2011 at 01:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
Woooosh....
Here's a real head banger.....cleaning up the mouse poop with a vacuum or broom.......is a very dangerous thing to do! The particles from that poop takes to the air......and then yacks!. I learned this from the farm Management classes.

Oh....see a Doctor for Gods sake!

I'm fine now. Clear lungs and I can scream at my nephews again. I thought these mice were kinda cute and was going to feed them to the falcon. The they invaded the kitchen and all love was lost. The half sandwich bun is what made my mind work backwards to Hanatvirus. One website said the saliva from them would be a problem in addition to the droppings that I already knew about. Go to Doctor? ugh. I still have all that Cipro around from Y2K...
:tumble:

CDC Surveillance Map

windgrrl - 9-27-2011 at 02:32 PM

The CDC has lots of info. Hanta virus is pretty common.

http://www.cdc.gov/hantavirus/surveillance/state-of-exposure...

A visit to a medial professional would be most wise considering your symptoms.

Woooosh - 9-27-2011 at 02:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by windgrrl
The CDC has lots of info. Hanta virus is pretty common.

http://www.cdc.gov/hantavirus/surveillance/state-of-exposure...

A visit to a medial professional would be most wise considering your symptoms.


I'll admit that for a smart man I make stupid decisions when it comes to myself. If my dogs coughed- I'd have them see the vet in a heartbeat. When I read there was no treatment once your lungs are clear of fluid I figured I'm on the other side of it now and will focus on prevention- so I don't get sick again. The mouse isn't a match for Hantavirus it seems. Thanks for the concern, of course you are right and my doctor would certainly agree with you.

[Edited on 9-27-2011 by Woooosh]

Von - 9-27-2011 at 04:13 PM

You know weve had that problem with mice too. My mom buys sticky gummy pads and we catch them and we have some cats they do an awesome job of catching these vermits. Ive seen the dropings once in a while and when i do i call in the calvary get all the cats for a night leave them in the house or trailers and theyll catch them right away its pretty cool how these cats work.

Woooosh - 9-27-2011 at 05:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Von
You know weve had that problem with mice too. My mom buys sticky gummy pads and we catch them and we have some cats they do an awesome job of catching these vermits. Ive seen the dropings once in a while and when i do i call in the calvary get all the cats for a night leave them in the house or trailers and theyll catch them right away its pretty cool how these cats work.

I think a cat would enjoy the job, for sure. My dogs are scared to death of these mice. Thy must flatten themselves out because some places I find their dropping has only a crack for an opening. We'll get 'em.

Santiago - 9-27-2011 at 08:23 PM

I'm a 'mouse fancier' from way back: I'm pretty sure you have a common house mouse (mus musculus). I have a Havahart live mouse trap at my place in BOLA but the only thing we ever catch there are a stain of kangaroo mouse that I don't recognize and the occasional deer mouse.

Santiago - 9-27-2011 at 08:44 PM

Oh forgot to say, deer meeses (peromyscus maniculatus) generally have very white bellies with a sharp line on the side to the color coat, brown to gray depending on area and sub-species. The common house mouse (mus mus) is generally a mottled brown; thus the description of a certain kind of brunette as a 'mousey brown'. You might hear or read of this as 'agoti' (pronounced a-goo'-tee).
Your area has been urbanized for some time, so it is unlikely that you have a deer mouse; they prefer natural areas. After five or ten years of new development, the house mouse will over take the area as they have adapted to humans.
Only thing that gives me pause is the size of the ears one your trapped mouse; pretty large for a mus mus but everything else points to the common house mouse. Maybe just the Alfred E Newman of your neighborhood.
Pop quiz next class.

Neal Johns - 9-27-2011 at 09:21 PM

I went to the Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas a few years ago and stopped in Ridgecrest on the way home to see an old buddy from our China Lake Missile days.
His wife answered the phone and said he was at the CES the same time I was and his body was still in Vegas dead from Hanta Virus. Whoa! Doctors though he had Pneumonia and before they decided it was Hanta he was dead (3 days after admission). We think he picked it up before going to Vegas.

Hanta Virus

Jack Swords - 9-28-2011 at 06:37 AM

Neal...any idea where he picked up the virus? I know your proclivity for arid places. Our ghost town adventures all over Nevada lend itself to sleeping in old cabins, but the mouse droppings are a warning. We sleep outside in the clean air.

Neal Johns - 9-28-2011 at 03:42 PM

Jack,
He lived at the north edge of Inyokern and it is believed he got it before he left for Vegas.

CortezBlue - 9-28-2011 at 08:46 PM

Ok here is what I know about Henta Virus

1. You catch it from dried rat crap. You get it by inhaling the dried poop when it is stirred up while sweeping etc.

2. If you suspect that they are infected and you find dried rat poop, use a mixture of bleach and water and spray them down before sweeping or moving the poop.

Woooosh - 9-28-2011 at 08:55 PM

I think you are #1 in the rat #2 stuff. thanks.

[Edited on 9-29-2011 by Woooosh]

Bugman - 9-29-2011 at 08:21 AM

A quick clarification here........
1. Rats don't carry the deadly sin nombre strain of hantavirus. You only get that from deer mice.
2. Old dry fecal material will not be infected. It has to be fresh urine or feces.
3. Sweeping or vacuuming is never recommended for cleaning rodent droppings because it can be hard to tell if it is fresh or old. Spray with a full strength disinfectant or a 10% solution of bleach before mopping or wiping with a damp cloth. :cool:

Woooosh - 9-29-2011 at 08:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bugman
A quick clarification here........
1. Rats don't carry the deadly sin nombre strain of hantavirus. You only get that from deer mice.
2. Old dry fecal material will not be infected. It has to be fresh urine or feces.
3. Sweeping or vacuuming is never recommended for cleaning rodent droppings because it can be hard to tell if it is fresh or old. Spray with a full strength disinfectant or a 10% solution of bleach before mopping or wiping with a damp cloth. :cool:

4. Don't eat the other half of a sandwich roll the mice ate.

:)

Thanks for all the info and treatment advice.