BajaNomad - Military Checkpoints

Military Checkpoints

raymorrone - 10-8-2011 at 04:19 PM

Thank you all for such awesome advice in my last Forum Q! Amazing!

I hate to bother ya'll but here is another Q:

BajaBlanca pointed out the military checkpoints. We're not afraid at all. we'll have all of our paper work in order and nothing to hide...and we're always respectful. Theirs is a seemingly hard and boring job.

But I read somewhere that is nice to offer them something - maybe a few Red Bulls, Cokes, or some thing...but only after they look us over. We dont want to appear like we're bribing them or hiding anything.

Is that something we should plan on?

Thanks again everyone.

Bajahowodd - 10-8-2011 at 04:24 PM

My advice is to let your conscience be your guide.

Over the many years we have been going through such checkpoints, our experience has varied.

Some are an actual pain, with the military acting like we were criminals. However, most have been very enjoyable experiences.

And, given the remote location, and so often, just a bunch of sweet-natured kids, we often give them treats.

It's all about the situation.

mulegemichael - 10-8-2011 at 04:41 PM

treats is treats!...for the most part, these guys are teenagers....teenagers love treats.

desertcpl - 10-8-2011 at 04:59 PM

its not necessary that you offer them anything, the only time that I have is in a very remote check point, being the last time I went to Gonzaga Bay, I felt sorry for these guys out in the middle of no where, I gave the younger one's cold soda and bottled water, the older guys Tecate, you should have seen their faces light up, I didnt think they had any thing that was iced down, so this was a treat for them
but either way I wouldnt stress out over it at all

[Edited on 10-9-2011 by desertcpl]

J.P. - 10-8-2011 at 04:59 PM

Military check points are part of the experince , like others say they are just kids, I have never been treated badly.
In the past I have been asked if we have any extra battries.
and they alyways ask how much the Dogs cost.
On another note NEVER leave your purse in the car I have in the past caught them going through my wifes purse.
like most people say let your conscience be your guide about the treats.

DENNIS - 10-8-2011 at 05:23 PM

It never occured to me to give them something and I don't think it would be a good policy to train them to expect anything.
Why would I want to give a tip or a gift to a kid with a machine gun? Almost seems disrespectful.

bajalou - 10-8-2011 at 05:26 PM

They are doing their job. And I think most are about the age of a quarter of the soldiers in WWII.

Give them the same treats you give the US Border Patrol when you cross the border.

Roberto - 10-8-2011 at 05:32 PM

Absolutely not. Would you give cops manning a DUI checkpoint in the U.S. something? Why is this any different? There are enough problems with professional conduct of people with authority in Mexico without tourists (Gringo tourists with lots of money compared to them) encouraging things.

Bajafun777 - 10-8-2011 at 05:44 PM

When we are driving down Baja in our truck on trips we usually have an ice in the bed of the truck. This ice chest has cold drinks or bottle water and I always tell them when they look inside the ice chest if they want some to help themselves. By the way I have another ice chest in my back seat with my ice drinks and food which I do not offer,LOL. A soft drink is not a bribe nor is it anything but a consideration you extended to someone you choose to or not. Nothing to get upset about if someone does not do it or if someone does, take it easy on the easy when traveling and don't get all worked up over nothing. Take Care & Travel Safe--- "No Hurry, No Worry, Just FUN" bajafun777

raymorrone - 10-8-2011 at 05:54 PM

That makes much more sense...

I totally understand that If we offer them something, they may soon expect it from everyone.

I remember receiving Christmas cards as a little kid, and if it didn't have a $5 in it, I'd throw it away and pout. (I'm a little better now!)

So, once again, we'll play it by ear... if we should somehow start a friendly rapport with the military checkpoint guys and they laugh at my jokes, I may ask "want a coke?" but otherwise, we wont offer it.

sancho - 10-8-2011 at 06:38 PM

!0 yrs back or so, at the Check Point 20 mi no of San Felipe in Winter, the Army kid wanted to buy my sleeping bag, their barracks consisted
of a tarp strung up around an Ocotillo. It is much better now, I believe
they are instructed not to take offerings. My understanding is
these are poor kids from Rural Mex Towns who don't have
connections or $ to get out of the Military service, that is a
version I've heard

Woooosh - 10-8-2011 at 07:00 PM

I give them decks of playing cards. These are young guys with lots of time on their hands.

Feathers - 10-8-2011 at 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
It never occured to me to give them something and I don't think it would be a good policy to train them to expect anything.
Why would I want to give a tip or a gift to a kid with a machine gun? Almost seems disrespectful.

Yep, what Dennis said! :yes:

Bajaboy - 10-8-2011 at 07:50 PM

I say give them 500 pesos and see if they'll waive you through.... :biggrin:

I completely agree with Dennis.

DENNIS - 10-8-2011 at 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sancho
!0 yrs back or so, at the Check Point 20 mi no of San Felipe in Winter, the Army kid wanted to buy my sleeping bag,

Many times I've heard that they wanted to buy something or other when in probable fact, they're only inviting you to give it to them.
Thas how I sees it anyway.

mojo_norte - 10-8-2011 at 08:04 PM

I agree with Dennis. Keep things professional.

micah202 - 10-8-2011 at 08:24 PM

...''if they laugh at mah jokes'' :lol:

Marinero - 10-8-2011 at 09:12 PM

Professional is good. A cold drink on a hot day is just as good.

BajaBlanca - 10-8-2011 at 09:14 PM

this is a really good and difficult question

these are really really poor kids for sure

I never thought about giving them something but at the end of the search, some candy or ice cold water/soda might be a nice gesture .... I will have to sleep on this one

someone once left their docs and quite a bit of cash on the center console and it all got stolen so remember to take cash/docs with you as you step away from the car and definitely keep an eye on the guys while they conduct their inspection ... driver side and passenger side.

Ateo - 10-8-2011 at 09:18 PM

Don't give them anything. They're doing their job. Be nice and respectful. Then move along. If you're in the middle of nowhere give them a beer or water or whatever.

Mulegena - 10-8-2011 at 11:57 PM

These young men are the equivalent to US military and should be shown the same respect, no matter what you think their circumstances are.

If you notice, they have sodas and snacks for sale in their roadside cantinas.
Buy some if you want to "help out".

Don't give them handouts. Show them respect.

Neither should you allow them to take food or anything from your car, ice chest or camper refrigerator. They will take your fresh food-- that is stealing, people!
Heck, I kicked one soldier out of the back of the rv when he asked me for a kiss-- slammed the freekin' door in his face!

Act respectful and keep these guys professional.
They are there to seek and find drugs and weapons
and apprehend the bad guys engaged in these illegal activities. That's it. No more, no less.

They have to serve in the military if they don't go to college. Its the law. No biggie. They're not abused or starving. The government is set up this way. Mexico can manage to take care of its own soldiers.

Also, when approaching a military checkpoint after dark, turn on your car's inside lights so they can see who is approaching. They will always tell you to turn your lights on, so do it proactively. This makes them feel a whole lot safer-- remember, they don't know who you are and are understandably ill at ease and vulnerable in the darkness... and they're 17 year-old kids with machine guns!

ddawson - 10-9-2011 at 12:40 AM

While headed home from our vacation in August, my fiance and I were going Northbound through the El Rosario checkpoint. As usual, I was asked to open my campershell so the soldiers could check it. The first bin one of the soldiers checked was the one that held my surfing and beach stuff. The guy was smiling and friendly, and asking basic questions.

He then pulled out my frisbee and I saw his eyes light up. I asked if he like to play and he said he used to do so on the beach in Oaxaca. Since the guy was being nice, I offered him the frisbee. He hesitated slightly, but I told him that he could have it no problem. I told him that I had others at home. He had a huge smile and said thank you very much. He said he and the other soldiers liked to go to the local beach by El Rosario when they were off and they didn't have much to do. He said they would definitely be using it.

He immediately stopped inspecting my vehicle and told me we could go. He again thanked me and as he walked off he threw the frisbee to one of his friends. I was stoked because I was free to go without further inspection.

Normally, I do not give the soldiers anything, but this time was different. The soldier wasn't expecting anything and very friendly from the start. After seeing his big smile when I gave it to him, I am glad I did.

mcfez - 10-9-2011 at 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by raymorrone
Thank you all for such awesome advice in my last Forum Q! Amazing!

I hate to bother ya'll but here is another Q:

BajaBlanca pointed out the military checkpoints. We're not afraid at all. we'll have all of our paper work in order and nothing to hide...and we're always respectful. Theirs is a seemingly hard and boring job.

But I read somewhere that is nice to offer them something - maybe a few Red Bulls, Cokes, or some thing...but only after they look us over. We dont want to appear like we're bribing them or hiding anything.

Is that something we should plan on?

Thanks again everyone.

We used to drop a case of soda or water to the boys there in SF. For years. Last time though.......the offering was refused...due to "new orders". Not sure what...but we do not offer any more.

Should you try......wait till the entire inspection is over with...then make the offering :-)

These inspections are painless. The boys are very professional.

Check first

bajaguy - 10-9-2011 at 06:54 AM

You had better ask the sergeant in charge of the inspection detail (sargento segundo-two stripes on hat/sargento primero-three stripes on hat) before you start offering "treats" to the troops.......or those you are trying to help may get into trouble.

It also helps and shows respect if you address them by rank.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_military_ranks

[Edited on 10-9-2011 by bajaguy]

Ken Bondy - 10-9-2011 at 07:20 AM

We have generally enjoyed our encounters at the checkpoints. They always go crazy over the red Hummer, and always ask how much it costs and if we will trade it for one of their drab green ones. Once they offered two of theirs for ours, I probably should have thought about that more carefully. At the remote checkpoints we offer packs of bottled water and they always seem to be appreciative of that.

At this one we asked if we could take their picture with the Hummer, and at first the Comandante (the older guy leaning on the passenger side of the Hummer) declined. But then he got out his camera and asked if he could take a picture of the Hummer, we of course said yes, and then they posed for us:

DENNIS - 10-9-2011 at 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
It also helps and shows respect if you address them by rank.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_military_ranks

Thanks Terry. I've often wondered...
Another thing....I've made it a point to notice that the Mexican Military doesn't seem to use the salute quite as regularly as our boys....even in organized gatherings, such as parades etc.
Maybe I'm just imagining this.....don't know for sure.

Pescador - 10-9-2011 at 07:59 AM

If you are really looking for the answer to this question, just watch what the locals do when they go through the checkpoints. Even the big trucks loaded with stuff stand back respectfully, talk when talked to, but do not go out of their way to try to make it a "Great Day" for the military guys.
I always joke with them, ask them where they are from, and when they ask me if I speak Spanish, I always reply with yes, do you? But I am always careful to use Usted and speak in proper Spanish which shows respect for their position.

watizname - 10-9-2011 at 10:00 AM

Years back when the stops were just starting up,and those poor guys were all out in the middle of nowhere, my wife would save all the Victoria Secret catalogues, and roll them up with a rubberband. We always had a big box of tootsie roll suckers, and it was always funny to pull away from a stop and in the mirror, you had these guys all standing around with machine guns on their shoulders, with suckers in their mouths, looking at the catalogues. :lol:

David K - 10-9-2011 at 10:26 AM

I have been asked for a cold drink inthe past at checkpoints... "of course my friend", is my answer (he had the big guns)! Last time was at the checkpoint near Santo Tomas. :lol:

In the remote central desert, after the inspection, I have offered a cold water when it was appropriate, as I would anyone in the desert looking dehydrated.

JESSE - 10-9-2011 at 10:31 AM

Its not good to give them anything, if i was a soldier i would consider that suspicious, and its also not good to get the soldiers used to get things from americans.

BajaBlanca - 10-9-2011 at 10:56 AM

you's consider it suspicious Jesse, even after the inspection ???? We have never given anything and as far as I can recall, we have never been asked for anything either.

It is not true that anyone is FORCED to go into the military, is it ???? many kids here do not go to college as they work in the coop after high school. and no one has ever gone into the military from La Bocana, to the best of my knowledge.

jakecard - 10-9-2011 at 01:56 PM

This study goes into some detail about the process of military conscription in Mexico.

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/pdfid/3df9bbab4.pdf

Jake

Cypress - 10-9-2011 at 02:25 PM

What are you gonna do, be belligerent? Make 'em flip the safetys off?

absinvestor - 10-9-2011 at 03:27 PM

I also think it gives the wrong message to offer them drinks, treats etc. In Mexico I tip everybody that offers a service ie gas station attendents etc but tipping (giving a treat) to a soldier that has just inspected my motorhome seems to send the wrong message. After he is off duty I would be pleased to buy him a drink etc. During our last stop I explained to the soldier that came aboard that our dog was friendly and wouldn't bite etc. He smiled and made small talk about a picture of our small granddaughter that we had taped to the refrigerator. However, when he went to the rear of the motorhome he picked up a stuffed toy dog that we had laying on the bed and asked if that one was also friendly!! Great sense of humor!!

Bajahowodd - 10-9-2011 at 04:09 PM

Wow! So many interesting responses.

With the exception of Mulegena's, I really retreat back to my first post about the situation.

Somehow, reading through the posts, I almost got the feeling that one could relate to zoo animals, with respect to the idea that one should not condition them.

By and large, these are kids. They joined the army because, for the most part, their lives would be mired in poverty back home. My take on the situation is that these kids are not necessarily feeling like they are fighting the good fight by manning these checkpoints. But rather it's their job, like it or not.

A comment was made about how the Mexicans treat the army at the checkpoints. Granted. But, in my experience, the Mexicans are hassled way more than the foreign travelers.

So, when we, as tourists have to submit to a few minutes to poking and searching, the Mexicans always seem to have to unload just about anything.

I just feel better when I can have a brief, enjoyable exchange with these kids, and offer them up some Takis and a cold beverage.

rhintransit - 10-9-2011 at 04:54 PM

there's a fine line here, part of a slippery slope, but I'm on the no gift side. I think gifts can lead to expectations and expectations to entitlement problems.
many/if not most of you can relate to problems with immigration in the past. here in Loreto, the INM office was a major offender until several years ago when a handful of gringos decided to put themselves on the line and say 'no more.'
as one of the handful you can imagine my surprise/reaction when, shortly after the major blow-up/shake down here, I drove a friend around town collecting his bank receipt, photos, etc. he was thrilled and amazed at the professionalism and ease of applying for a renewal (as opposed to the past) he asked me to stop at a tienda so he could pick up soft drinks and cookies for the INM guys. as a 'thank you'
I declined and asked him to think about it.
think about it, folks. cookies, cokes, etc lead to 'harder stuff' I'm sure that's how some people learn to first expect gifts, then demand them.
be courteous, be polite, have an enjoyable exchange with the military guys. but in my opinion, handouts just aren't any more appropriate than giving something to the police officer who (legitimately or otherwise) stops you.
our newbie, raymorrone, asked a reasonable question based on something he had read. there's still a lot of 'information'/advise out there that was more appropriate 20-30 years ago than it is today.

dtbushpilot - 10-9-2011 at 07:14 PM

I wouldn't typically offer the soldiers anything for many of the reasons posted here, I would probably offer them a cold drink if I had one and they gave me a thirsty look. We did give 2 of them a ride to Guererro Negro from the checkpoint North of there once. My wife and I were in separate vehicles and each of us took one. I thought it was fun but it creeped Jill out....she wasn't happy with me for agreeing to take them. If I have cold water bottles in the cooler I would be more likely to give them to the guys working along the road, they always look hot and thirsty working all day in the sun......dt

DENNIS - 10-9-2011 at 07:57 PM

Does anyone actually think these soldiers are left out in the wilderness without water??

bigzaggin - 10-9-2011 at 08:38 PM

On the way down, I don't give them a thing. On the way back...help yourselves! I've handed out playing cards, beers, waters, smokes, magazines, etc. I've also had them just take things too...but rarely (and usually in the far north). I don't look at it as "training the dogs to beg," I look at it as, "guys who protect Baja and could use another reason to trust gringos."

When I was much younger, at the checkpoint leave San Felipe around dusk, one of the militars asked me where I was headed, and I said I was on my way to Valle Trinidad. He leaned into my car and said, "You don't wanna make that drive in the dark. Trust me. Go back to San Felipe, spend the nite and tomorrow I'll wave you right through."

I took his advice and he kept his word. Trusted them ever since.

Also, speaking Spanish a major plus at checkpoints.

BajaDanD - 10-9-2011 at 09:45 PM

One time on our way back from SanQuintin we pulled up to a check point and was asked to open the trunk. as I opened it I remembered I had left all my cash about $600 under the mat in the trunk.We had been swimming earlier and I put it there so I wouldnt loose it. Anyway I jumped out of the car and ran to the back just as the guys were starting to look under the mat. I startled them pretty good and the Sargent or whoever it was that was in charge ran over to see what was up. I reached in lifted the mat and grabbed my money and thay all laughed.
I usually dont give them anything. Ive been asked for batteriers and sodas given a few flashlights and bottled water a few times. Ive never had a problem with the checkpoints.

Paulina - 10-9-2011 at 10:04 PM

This past summer a young man was inspecting the center divider storage compartment in our truck. He pulled out a tampon. I sat watching him from the passenger front seat as he turned it this way and that, looking it over quite carefully. He looked up at me with a questionable look on his face. I gestured that he could have it. He smiled and off it went.

I've always wondered what happened next.

P>*)))>{

JESSE - 10-9-2011 at 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Does anyone actually think these soldiers are left out in the wilderness without water??

They have everything, sodas, munchies, etc etc giving them stuff even if its small, its not a good thing since it might encourage some to expect something.

Roberto - 10-10-2011 at 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca
you's consider it suspicious Jesse, even after the inspection ???? We have never given anything and as far as I can recall, we have never been asked for anything either.

It is not true that anyone is FORCED to go into the military, is it ???? many kids here do not go to college as they work in the coop after high school. and no one has ever gone into the military from La Bocana, to the best of my knowledge.

Military service is mandatory for all male citizens. The ones at checkpoints are volunteers.

Quote:

As of 2011, all males reaching eighteen years of age must register for military service (Servicio Militar Nacional, or SMN) for one year, though selection is made by a lottery system using the following color scheme: whoever draws a black ball must serve as a "disponibility reservist", that is, he must not follow any activities whatsoever and get his discharge card at the end of the year. The ones who get a white ball serve Saturdays in a Batallón del Servicio Militar Nacional (National Military Service Battalion) composed entirely of one-year SMN conscripts. Those with a community service interest may participate in Literacy Campaigns as teachers or as physical education instructors. Military service is also (voluntarily) open to women. In certain cities, such as Mexico City and Veracruz, there is a third option: a red ball (Mexico City) and a Blue ball (Veracruz), which entails serving a full year as a recruit in a Paratrooper Battalion in the case of Mexico City residents, or an Infantería de Marina unit (Navy Marines) in Veracruz. In other cities which have a Navy HQ (such as Ciudad Madero), it is the Navy which takes charge of the conscripts, instead of the Army.

[Edited on 10-10-2011 by Roberto]

El Camote - 10-10-2011 at 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paulina
This past summer a young man was inspecting the center divider storage compartment in our truck. He pulled out a tampon. I sat watching him from the passenger front seat as he turned it this way and that, looking it over quite carefully. He looked up at me with a questionable look on his face. I gestured that he could have it. He smiled and off it went.

I've always wondered what happened next.

P>*)))>{

Smart soldier. He knows with a Tampon you can go swimming, horseback riding, bicycling....

:lol:

DianaT - 10-10-2011 at 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Camote

Quote:

Smart soldier. He knows with a Tampon you can go swimming, horseback riding, bicycling....

:lol:

mcfez - 10-10-2011 at 12:36 PM

Quote:

Oh Gods

Funniest post of the week goes to Paulina!

DENNIS - 10-10-2011 at 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paulina
I've always wondered what happened next.

P>*)))>{

You may not want to know.
There is, or was, a book in the local bookstores that covers country medicine. It would have to have been written for the health agencies 'cause the people it sought to assist would have been extremely rural and probably illiterate.
One section, illustrated with crude drawings showed the proper method of using corn cobs in a situation where we would use toilet paper. It showed a large pile of cobs [unused I presume] and a drawing of a female illustrating the proper direction to use the cob so as to not draw matter into a more infectable area.

Now...I'm not suggesting any relationship between Tampons and corn cobs and if I had to guess, I'd say the soldier snuck out behind the barn and smoked it.

Anyway....next time you're at your neighbor's house for a BBQ and they cook up corn, you'll remember this and, while no one is looking, you may even drop the cob into your purse....just out of curiosity. :cool:

Bon Appetit.

motoged - 10-10-2011 at 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Camote
Smart soldier. He knows with a Tampon you can go swimming, horseback riding, bicycling....
:lol:

Funniest comment on this forum in months :lol:

An old joke, but VERY funny :lol:

Paulina - 10-10-2011 at 05:31 PM

Dennis,

Where There Is No Doctor-a village health care handbook.
David Werner

I have that book! I bought it back in 1990 at West Marine in the Cruising books section for $12.95

A new, updated version is available on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Where-There-Doctor-David-Werner/dp/094...

The author also did the illustrations. I am interested to see how the book has changed in the past 20 years.

>*)))>{

I had to take another look, pg. 242! "this way YES" "NOT this way".

DENNIS - 10-10-2011 at 07:29 PM

That's the book. Pretty graphic...huh.

ecomujeres - 10-10-2011 at 08:44 PM

We like military guys that are educated, so in the past, we've handed out one copy at various check points of a Spanish-English dictionary and/or "English for Latinos" (only for those who expressed interest in wanting to learn more English and usually did so in English) as well as copies of the environmental bulletin "Meloncoyote".

Russ - 10-11-2011 at 11:11 AM

2 of 4 took a quick glance going north yesterday. Boarder,TJ, just over an hour. No SD traffic jambs at 5pm. Columbus Days no rush hour.

sancho - 10-11-2011 at 12:11 PM

Yrs back, at the Checkpoint so. of Ensenada, a
Guy looking thru the Glove compartment pulls out
a Glue piston tube that I used to repair an inflatable,
with a little imagination one COULD imagine it
as some sort of a hyperdermic needle setup, his
manner became tense, so did mine as I searched my
Spanish for a word for cement, glue. he lost interest
after a few seconds, I will never again leave anything
up to interruption by any Mex Authority