BajaNomad - Construction Advice

Construction Advice

mitsu - 10-14-2011 at 12:19 PM

Need some advice
Looking to build a home just North of San Felipe. Talking to a few builders and they are offering a variety of building materials available for construction. Most are recommending Ladrillo, Cement Block with 1" of foam or Foam (Tri-D Panel, Rastra or Ice Block). I will not be living in the house during the summer months so don't know if I want to spend the extra for the Tri-D Panel, Rastra or Ice Block. Any thoughts??
Mitsu

DENNIS - 10-14-2011 at 12:31 PM

Welcome to BajaNomad, mitsu.

There a lot of SF folks here and they should be giving you some good advice in a while.
Good luck with your project.

greengoes - 10-14-2011 at 12:36 PM

May I suggest you rent McFez's place for a year, before making a large investment, to be sure it is for you.

Interested in anime? Reminds me of another new member here, currently up in Rosarito, you may have some things in common.

Phil S - 10-14-2011 at 12:47 PM

My brother in law just finished constructing a home using the cement/styrofoam. Sound deadening frm outside#1. Warmer in the winter.#2 And cooler in the summer #3. Sounds like good investment even if you won't be down there in the summer.
What development is "north of S.F."??
Leased land or do you have a title to it?
Always remember. Never spend more than you can walk away from without getting hurt!

[Edited on 10-14-2011 by Phil S]

mitsu - 10-14-2011 at 01:07 PM

Phil,
Thanks for your comments. The development is Playa De Oro and we have title to the land.

jakecard - 10-14-2011 at 01:51 PM

How much more will it cost to build with foam block than cement block?

Jake

Required Reading

bajaguy - 10-14-2011 at 01:57 PM

Mitsu............required reading BEFORE you build in Baja:

http://tinyurl.com/43hwh4a

Phil S - 10-15-2011 at 05:39 AM

YES. Absolutely everyone should read this book. Even if your only considering building. It's a very enjoyable read. High on my list of 'approved Baja books"

Antiquated

Dave - 10-15-2011 at 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
Mitsu............required reading BEFORE you build in Baja:

This book has little if anything in common with today's reality.

Riom - 10-15-2011 at 07:44 PM

It's cold in the winter (at night) in San Felipe and it can be expensive to heat (with electric), so do go for extra insulation. 1" foam doesn't sound like much at all (but is probably 1" more than many builders will use!). Get more.

Cement block and foam is generally the cheapest (make sure they build to earthquake-proof standards with plenty of rebar), but the other "systems" might make your house more re-sellable in a development where many other houses use them, such as in Playa del Oro. You don't want to be too cheap or basic a house in an expensive location.

It'll take 2 to 3 times as long to build as the builders state, and it'll either cost more or some things will have to be dropped off the list to make the budget. If you're not present during construction (and probably even if you are) short-cuts will be taken by the builders and if there's any decisions to be made by them (don't let them!), the easy/cheap option will be taken regardless of whether the end result looks good or even works. This isn't unique to San Felipe of course, applies to builders anywhere.

It's stressful building in San Felipe. Next time, I'm buying a prefab or kit home.

Rob

[Edited on 2011-10-16 by Riom]

Actually

bajaguy - 10-15-2011 at 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
Mitsu............required reading BEFORE you build in Baja:

This book has little if anything in common with today's reality.

It's not....it is how things work here if you are not at the construction site overseeing things

BigWooo - 10-16-2011 at 05:53 AM

Here's another less expensive alternative. We filled the cells of the blocks (8") with foam beads. Although it will not provide the insulation value of a solid sheet of 1" foam, according to our neighbor who used it in his house, it does make a noticable difference, both in keeping the house cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter.

We haven't completed our house yet, so I can't tell you from personal experience if the foam beads actually make a difference. Like you, I'm more worried about keeping the house warm in the winter. Once we get the windows and doors in, maybe two or three months, I'll have a better idea if it was worth the effort.

These are the bags they come in:

Bob and Susan - 10-16-2011 at 06:04 AM

to keep the house warm...the answer...WINDOWS

warm in the winter... HOT in the summer

my units with only doors are way cooler in the summer

now my 2 cents

if i didnt live here full time i wouldnt build

when you leave a place vacant you are asking for a breakin
even if you have security

if i built again
i'd build SMALL and bring in a prefab like
riom says...

even the septic tank should be a plastic pre-fab unit
not made of plastic water tanks and NOT out of cement
dig a hole ...set it in...hook up the leech lines..and done

these prefabs are really nice these days and easy to import and install
the electrical is correct and plumbing will work
they are also earthquake safer
and san felipe has had some recently

take a look at pre-fabs
you be surprised

mitsu - 10-16-2011 at 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigWooo
Here's another less expensive alternative. We filled the cells of the blocks (8") with foam beads. Although it will not provide the insulation value of a solid sheet of 1" foam, according to our neighbor who used it in his house, it does make a noticable difference, both in keeping the house cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter.

We haven't completed our house yet, so I can't tell you from personal experience if the foam beads actually make a difference. Like you, I'm more worried about keeping the house warm in the winter. Once we get the windows and doors in, maybe two or three months, I'll have a better idea if it was worth the effort.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Big Wooo'
Thanks for the pictures and information.
What part of Baja are you building in? Any advice on the construction would be helpful. We are planning to select our builder next month but continue to weigh the pro's and con's on the structure of the house,

capt. mike - 10-16-2011 at 09:46 AM

filling CMU / cinder blocks cells with zonolite, EPS beads or any other medium will not help much because that will not create a "thermal break" - in other words the migration of the thermal mass effect will go thru the connected system of the blocks forms.

You need to create a continual thermal break which will allow heat to build but not penetrate into the other side, and the mass will push back to the outside as the day reverses.

the best system for this was "omni-block" due to the design of the masonry units and foam inserts effecting when assembled this thermal break. and no loss of structural strength.

beyond that i'd go adobe and get 2' thick solid walls.

Bob and Susan - 10-16-2011 at 10:01 AM

is there something you could spray on mike

like that fiberglass stucco stuff they used to use

capt. mike - 10-16-2011 at 10:56 AM

no, not really - it is not thick enough.

for older block homes the preferred system is called "outsulation" and involves a lay up of min 2" and better 3-4" EPS foam panels with mas adhesive.

then you can mortar wash, brown coat and or roll EFIS coating with or without integral color.
But you still have to deal with the roof system where the majority of heat gain/loss occurs.

many of the better products are not dist in mexico so importation becomes a cost impact.

for options contact the industry association for ICF or insulated concrete forms. they have new stuff all the time.

build a "cave" effect and you'll always be able to create comfort seasonally with minimal cost and maintenance.

Bob and Susan - 10-16-2011 at 11:15 AM

the "foam" houses here are peeling

the sun is brutal and the paint is just peeling off the newer foam products

the basic block is lasting the longest

we were talking about making a plastic palapa/casita....
the plastic is really holding up in this sunlight

my patio i made out of plastic fence rails looks outstanding

imagine...living in a plastic house
:lol:

no fire place for sure

capt. mike - 10-17-2011 at 03:34 PM

well - the right paint with strong PVA additive applied to a properly cured [read ph level checked and with a moisture meter] cementious stucco multi coat should stand up to baja sun. Peeling is a phenomenum i am not familiar with.
plastic sounds good to me. i have seen plenty of it on womens' chests..... hahaha.

mtgoat666 - 10-17-2011 at 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mitsu
Need some advice
Looking to build a home just North of San Felipe. Talking to a few builders and they are offering a variety of building materials available for construction. Most are recommending Ladrillo, Cement Block with 1" of foam or Foam (Tri-D Panel, Rastra or Ice Block). I will not be living in the house during the summer months so don't know if I want to spend the extra for the Tri-D Panel, Rastra or Ice Block. Any thoughts??
Mitsu

building new would probably be a PITA. lots of people trying to sell their vacation homes in mexico, so why not by a home already built?

how are you going to manage/inspect construction when you are living 1,000 miles away?????????? perhaps you should hire a local architect...

mitsu - 10-17-2011 at 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have owned the lot for about 10 years and it is a great location on the water. We are going to hire a local architect and plan to be down often during the build process.

jakecard - 10-17-2011 at 06:29 PM

I think Riom's advice is extremely sound.

What do you think, mitsu, has anything in this thread helped sway any decisions?

Jake

mitsu - 10-17-2011 at 09:38 PM

Jake,

The information is helpful. One of the builders I'm talking to is recommending using Ladrillo (fired red brick) with Castillos every 8'. I would like to get input from someone who has build a home this way to understand the Pro's and Con's. The foam block options are about 15% higher but i'm not planning to live in Mexico during the hot summer months.

jakecard - 10-17-2011 at 09:48 PM

So many options and so much to learn. Good thread.

Best,

Jake

Riom - 10-17-2011 at 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mitsu
i'm not planning to live in Mexico during the hot summer months.

But do you plan to be there at night in January or February? It gets cold. Not always, not many nights, but near freezing does happen.

Here's the hourly temperatures from my weather station at El Dorado for the days around a cold snap last Feb 3rd. 31F for a low, and a couple of daytimes that only just went over 50F. There were some similar days in early January. And that was quite a mild winter.

Are you sure a nearly uninsulated brick building would be comfortable? With electric heat costing (at a higher use tariff) 20c/kWh?

Rob

RnR - 10-18-2011 at 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Riom

Quote:

Originally posted by mitsu
i'm not planning to live in Mexico during the hot summer months.

But do you plan to be there at night in January or February? It gets cold. Not always, not many nights, but near freezing does happen.

Are you sure a nearly uninsulated brick building would be comfortable? With electric heat costing (at a higher use tariff) 20c/kWh?

Rob

Propane is a better choice for heat than electricity. For the few nights when heat is needed, use a ventless propane heater with a quick disconnect to permanently installed propane lines to the rooms requiring heat. Moderate sized heaters are $200. Or, install small direct vent heaters, $400 to $500 each. Or, incorporate a gas log fireplace into the living area decor. Lot's of options.

McFez's Reality Company has a deal for you!!!!!

mcfez - 10-18-2011 at 10:00 AM

Another Americana is moving to Baja?

Right off the bat.....rent a home for a year...half year. That was good advice given earlier...and given here in the BN posts for years! Oh...yes....I have a small opened spaced home for rent...txs for the plug... brother BN

Before you buy the land...or lease.....TALK TO EVERY SINGLE LIVING SOUL in the place! Ask about the terms of the land. Has all been fair? Crime/security exist? Building restrictions and the NO restrictions (!)..Do not believe Realtors. Get yourself a good legal referral from this BN format to do the land deal...I wouldn't spit on the ground till this was done!

The house....
I designed a house that was small...to be used as a base camp. No sense to having a big joint if you are to going go there for a few weeks out of the year (s).

Design the house with the wind direction in mind! Comfort outside sitting area should be away from the wind. Sunset is a big factor too....dont have that 3 p.m. sun beating your windows. ......or do what I did....planted MANY trees in front of the house...and added wooded shutters to block the blaring afternoon sun. My home faces the mountains with no obstructions....had I had it facing the ocean....I'd be looking at my neighbors walking around in their underwear.

Materials. Not going to use it in the Summer (we dont)? I used concrete block without form......but form on the roof. A.C. window type from HD. Shade from the trees. But if you use the house in the summer....dont copy me!

Outdoor kitchen...a must. It's great to cook outside.

Buy or lease where is there is water and power!!!!!!!! Dont take promises that it is "coming soon". In Baja....."coming soon" is ten years or so :-)

Oh.....need a lot? Campos Ocotillo. That's where we are......and I have a lot for sale there too!

Good luck with your adventure...you will not regret it!

mitsu - 10-18-2011 at 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mcfez
Another Americana is moving to Baja? :P

Right off the bat.....rent a home for a year...half year. That was good advice given earlier...and given here in the BN posts for years! Oh...yes....I have a small opened spaced home for rent...txs for the plug... brother BN ;)

Before you buy the land...or lease.....TALK TO EVERY SINGLE LIVING SOUL in the place! Ask about the terms of the land. Has all been fair? Crime/security exist? Building restrictions and the NO restrictions (!)..Do not believe Realtors. Get yourself a good legal referral from this BN format to do the land deal...I wouldn't spit on the ground till this was done!

The house....
I designed a house that was small...to be used as a base camp. No sense to having a big joint if you are to going go there for a few weeks out of the year (s).

Design the house with the wind direction in mind! Comfort outside sitting area should be away from the wind. Sunset is a big factor too....dont have that 3 p.m. sun beating your windows. ......or do what I did....planted MANY trees in front of the house...and added wooded shutters to block the blaring afternoon sun. My home faces the mountains with no obstructions....had I had it facing the ocean....I'd be looking at my neighbors walking around in their underwear.

Materials. Not going to use it in the Summer (we dont)? I used concrete block without form......but form on the roof. A.C. window type from HD. Shade from the trees. But if you use the house in the summer....dont copy me!

Outdoor kitchen...a must. It's great to cook outside.

Buy or lease where is there is water and power!!!!!!!! Dont take promises that it is "coming soon". In Baja....."coming soon" is ten years or so :-)

Oh.....need a lot? Campos Ocotillo. That's where we are......and I have a lot for sale there too!

Good luck with your adventure...you will not regret it!

________________________________________________
McFez,

Thanks for your advise. We purchased our lot in 2002 and come down to San Felipe a few weeks a year. The lot has both water and power. The front of the house will face the Sea of Cortez. We are going to the outdoor kitchen. The hone is designed so the garage blocks the wind from the North. As our view is all to the east and south.

[img]http://[/img]

El Camote - 10-18-2011 at 01:08 PM

Mitsu, my family built a north San Felipe home out of stucco over ladrillo in '98, before the insulted concrete options were popular. Same story as you, my father and his lady were only planning on wintering there. The house has an open floor plan, open beam ceiling and oriented to the north/east.

Without obscene amounts of heating and cooling the house is comfortable in November and March/April. That's it.

In the cooler months, the orientation doesn't take advantage of the warming effect of the sun and the house never heats up during the day. It's like a fridge in there and propane heating is needed just to bring the inside up to the outside temps.

In the warmer months, and I'm not talking about summer, the brick absorbs sun all day and radiates it all night. So in May when it typically hits 100 during the day but cools comfortably at night, the inside of the house can be 85 when it's 70 outside. It's like living in a pizza oven. And this thermal transfer happened in all the rooms, included the north/east side. I experimented with opening and closing windows, fans, etc. There was no overcoming this effect.

There are a lot of creative options for building, including partial underground, that I've seen down there. I'd scratch ladrillo off the list and keep exploring your options.

[Edited on 10-18-2011 by El Camote]

capt. mike - 10-19-2011 at 10:01 AM

www.omniblock.com

great stuff.

oladulce - 10-22-2011 at 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mitsu
Big Wooo'
Thanks for the pictures and information.
What part of Baja are you building in? Any advice on the construction would be helpful. We are planning to select our builder next month but continue to weigh the pro's and con's on the structure of the house,

Mitsu, BigWooo and I are on the Pacific in central Baja Sur with a different desert climate than your location. Weather played a definite part in our home plans but we don't have the extreme highs and lows that you'll have.

The remote location was the biggest factor that determined our choice of building material (transportation is already a huge part of our building cost) so any new and "exotic" material would have to trucked in from far away. There's no equipment to blow the stucco on Tri-D so the coats would be applied by hand and there's no one in the nearby fishing town that's familiar with working with Tri-D. A friend tested the local raw materials and found they weren't ideal for making adobe blocks. Concrete block with a foam block roof is what we're using for these reasons.

Sounds like you'll have lots of choices and I agree with previous posts that climate will be a huge factor in your location.

mcfez - 2-12-2012 at 09:11 AM

Cement block and foam beads in the hollow of the brick.....is how we did our place. Foam the roof! Elevate the wall with a false front ......on the afternoon sun side of the house...it will cast a shadow onto the roof :-)

The materials is available and readied in San Felipe. We found this house to be suitable for the winter....using a simple space heaters if needed. Summers...we have a simple wall A.C. although we do not use the house during late June to September. ...that's for tough guys!

Place your windows AWAY from the setting sun......the heat blares right in. Build shutters! I landscaped for shade against the harsh summer sun....much shade now. There are native shrubs that you can use.....requiring little water after a few years.

Feel free to run down to our place and take a look at it. Campos Ocotillio. Just ask where Deno's house is.

[Edited on 2-12-2012 by mcfez]