BajaNomad

Could securing our borders be in the best interest of Mexico?

Alan - 10-30-2011 at 10:49 AM

There is a lively discussion currently going on in another post that has mostly deteriorated to the standard hyperbole of each party regarding immigration.

Has anyone considered that full control of the US/Mexico border could best thing the US could do to assist Mexico. Following the headlines leads one to believe that the current drug war being waged by President Calderon is possibly the greatest single threat to the overall stability of Mexico and it appears that Mexico is losing this war. The cartels are just too well funded.

It would seem that true control of the border, north and south bound would be the most effective means of hitting the drug cartels. Northbound would stem the flow of drugs into the US and southbound would prevent the money and weapons getting back to the cartels.

I don't intend to infer that I believe this to be answer to all the border issues. The issues are far too complex to have any simple answers. I just wanted to suggest that control of our borders is not just an immigration issue.

Cypress - 10-30-2011 at 11:30 AM

Mexico would become something similar to Somalia. The cartels would be transformed into para-military groups. The govt. troops would be caught up in the crossfire with some units joining the cartels. Turf battles would begin. The drug shortage in the US would create a major increase in "homegrown". The govt. would be forced to deal with the legalization issue. Is securing the border asking too much of the feds? The current administration has other priorities. Priority #1 is getting re-elected. They're game plan is to foment class warfare.

Alan - 10-30-2011 at 11:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Mexico would become something similar to Somalia. The cartels would be transformed into para-military groups. The govt. troops would be caught up in the crossfire with some units joining the cartels. Turf battles would begin.
I'd say this is a good synopsis of Mexico as it is today>

DENNIS - 10-30-2011 at 12:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Alan
Has anyone considered that full control of the US/Mexico border could best thing the US could do to assist Mexico.


That would be a secondary consideration. We have to assist ourselves and have Mexico adjust to the outcome.
That's how the US has been flushed down the crapper; by considering every other country imaginable without taking care of business at home. We've turned into the world's doormat.

Ateo - 10-30-2011 at 12:05 PM

You can never get true control of the border. There is always another way. Just my opinion. How much money do we want to spend securing the border?

Woooosh - 10-30-2011 at 01:59 PM

Mexicans have the constitutional right to migrate and their gov't will do nothing to prevent that. No wall or barrier from them. They even make little booklets to help their departing citizens get into the USA- don't they? That's why the USA is increasingly working within Mexico to infiltrate the cartels.

Cypress - 10-30-2011 at 02:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Mexicans have the constitutional right to migrate and their gov't will do nothing to prevent that. No wall or barrier from them. They even make little booklets to help their departing citizens get into the USA- don't they? That's why the USA is increasingly working within Mexico to infiltrate the cartels.

The constitutinal right?:biggrin::biggrin:

Barry A. - 10-30-2011 at 02:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ateo
You can never get true control of the border. There is always another way. Just my opinion. How much money do we want to spend securing the border?


Whatever it takes!!! True, never have "full" control. But we could do a LOT better than we are doing now------a LOT better. If you remember, the Ruskies did a pretty good job with the Berlin Wall, and the walls in Isreal are working well, also.

Lots of "issues" need addressing NOW (see that other thread) , and this is just one of many.

Just my opinion, of course, and I agree with Dennis's comment above.

barry

DENNIS - 10-30-2011 at 02:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Mexicans have the constitutional right to migrate



That right stops at the line.

JESSE - 10-30-2011 at 02:28 PM

Off course it is, but its not in the interest of the US, thats why it will never truly happen.

Bajaboy - 10-30-2011 at 03:25 PM

Who would the Republican politicians hire to clean their houses and mow the lawns if they closed the border?

sanquintinsince73 - 10-30-2011 at 03:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Off course it is, but its not in the interest of the US, thats why it will never truly happen.


We need a leader with "cojones" to make it our interest to secure the border at all cost. I really don't give a crap if we offend anyone. If securing our borders threatens any trade agreements with Mexico, well oh darn....NAFTA is a farce anyway.

sanquintinsince73 - 10-30-2011 at 03:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Who would the Republican politicians hire to clean their houses and mow the lawns if they closed the border?


Really??

Barry A. - 10-30-2011 at 03:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Who would the Republican politicians hire to clean their houses and mow the lawns if they closed the border?


Probably the same folks that I do------the neighborhood kids!!!

Barry

Bajaboy - 10-30-2011 at 03:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Who would the Republican politicians hire to clean their houses and mow the lawns if they closed the border?


Really??


Well let's see....they toughen up the laws in Alabama and the farmers are crying about no one to pick the tomatoes.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out:?:

sanquintinsince73 - 10-30-2011 at 03:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Quote:
Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Who would the Republican politicians hire to clean their houses and mow the lawns if they closed the border?


Really??


Well let's see....they toughen up the laws in Alabama and the farmers are crying about no one to pick the tomatoes.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out:?:


The only rocket science here is if the farmers paid a decent wage then maybe more Americans would work the fields. Illegals are more than willing to accept less than minimum wages. Don't forget that "Okies" use to work in the fields many years ago and then came the "Braseros". It was the Illegals who were responsible for the decrease in wages not only picking crops but in other trades as well.

JoeJustJoe - 10-30-2011 at 03:58 PM

It sounds like a xenophobe's wet dream!

So if they close down the border it will stop both undocumented Mexicans and drugs from reaching the US?

C'mon, let's get serious here.

Maybe one day pigs will fly too?

Yeah right Sanquintinsince white US Americans will pick fruit and work on farms if they just paid a little bit more.

I wonder how long they would last before they get skin cancer?

I hear there are a lot of open agriculture jobs in Alabama right now because of that harsh mean-spited immigration law Alabama passed recently. I don't see many White unemployed American workers lining up for those jobs. The only thing I see is rotten fruit and vegetables in Alabama because so many Mexican workers left the state, and now they have nobody to pick the fruit.



[Edited on 10-30-2011 by JoeJustJoe]

Bajaboy - 10-30-2011 at 03:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Quote:
Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Who would the Republican politicians hire to clean their houses and mow the lawns if they closed the border?


Really??


Well let's see....they toughen up the laws in Alabama and the farmers are crying about no one to pick the tomatoes.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out:?:


The only rocket science here is if the farmers paid a decent wage then maybe more Americans would work the fields. Illegals are more than willing to accept less than minimum wages. Don't forget that "Okies" use to work in the fields many years ago and then came the "Braseros". It was the Illegals who were responsible for the decrease in wages not only picking crops but in other trades as well.


I agree with you all the way to the bank. But unfortunately our society will say they want the borders closed until they go shopping. All it takes is a trip to Walmart to point out this conflict. Keep our jobs in the US but don't raise prices.....

sanquintinsince73 - 10-30-2011 at 04:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Quote:
Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Quote:
Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Who would the Republican politicians hire to clean their houses and mow the lawns if they closed the border?


Really??


Well let's see....they toughen up the laws in Alabama and the farmers are crying about no one to pick the tomatoes.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out:?:


The only rocket science here is if the farmers paid a decent wage then maybe more Americans would work the fields. Illegals are more than willing to accept less than minimum wages. Don't forget that "Okies" use to work in the fields many years ago and then came the "Braseros". It was the Illegals who were responsible for the decrease in wages not only picking crops but in other trades as well.


I agree with you all the way to the bank. But unfortunately our society will say they want the borders closed until they go shopping. All it takes is a trip to Walmart to point out this conflict. Keep our jobs in the US but don't raise prices.....


It's a tough one to solve but even the American farmer is getting edged out little by little. My wife brought home a package of garlic and I almost drowned in my cornflakes when I read a tag on the bottom that read : "Product of China". What's wrong with Gilroy garlic???

DENNIS - 10-30-2011 at 04:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Off course it is, but its not in the interest of the US, thats why it will never truly happen.


If the importation of criminals and crime exceeds the value of the cheap labor, it will.
That occurance is coming close.

Here's one for the "we don't need secure borders" crowd....

sanquintinsince73 - 10-31-2011 at 09:03 AM

Law enforcement officials in Arizona seized thousands of pounds of narcotics and arrested at least 70 suspected drug smugglers with apparent ties to a violent drug cartel in Mexico, an official involved with the investigation in the U.S. Southwest told Reuters.

The operation, which included three raids conducted jointly by local, state, and federal officials over 17 months, led to the arrests of Mexican and American nationals working with a notorious drug cartel based in the Mexican state of Sinaloa, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Further details of the operation will be released at a press conference at the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration field office in Phoenix on Monday.

Authorities confiscated drugs, money, weapons, ammunition, and bullet-proof vests, cracking a "sophisticated network" of international drug smuggling in one of the largest such operations conducted in the Southwestern United States, the official said on Sunday.

Drugs were smuggled from Mexico into Arizona by car, plane, on foot, and through tunnels.

"This is one of the more substantial drug-smuggling operations going on right now. This is a billion-dollar drug trade organization linked to the cartel," the official said.

The cartel is headquartered in the northwestern state of Sinaloa on Mexico's Pacific coast, an area home to big marijuana and opium poppy plantations and considered the cradle of Mexican narcotics trafficking since the 1960s.


The cartel is believed to handle 65 percent of all drugs illegally transported to the United States, drug experts say.

Tens of thousands of people have been killed in drug-related violence since Mexican President Felipe Calderon launched his military campaign against the cartels after he took office in late 2006.

'Jaw-dropping'
The raids were overseen by the DEA, Arizona state officials, and the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency.

The official said the operation will shed light on elaborate drug smuggling into the United States and said the contraband confiscated in the raids was "jaw-dropping."

Officials captured some of the key players in the smuggling operation, the source said, adding that the suspects will be prosecuted at the state level.

The official said law enforcement officials are still looking for dozens of people in connection with the operation.