BajaNomad - Loreteños ask authorities to stop unfair competition from Gringos

Loreteños ask authorities to stop unfair competition from Gringos

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Mengano - 11-17-2011 at 10:24 AM

Spanish first, then English:

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n2309373.htm

Loreto, Baja California Sur.- Prestadores de servicios turísticos están pidiendo al Instituto Nacional de Migración (INM) que se haga algo para detener la competencia desleal de extranjeros y no sigan desplazando a los lancheros y hoteleros locales con la renta de sus botes y casas de forma irregular.

En entrevistado en la dársena del malecón, los prestadores de servicios señalaron que la peor crisis que pueden enfrentar es la apatía de las autoridades para ponerle un freno a la evasión de impuestos de muchos extranjeros que vienen a hacer negocio en México.

Mientras nuestros hoteles están vacíos y nuestras pangas no salen por falta de turismo, los gringos y canadienses vienen ya organizados y traen clientes argumentando que son sus amigos o familiares, cuando todos sabemos que hay un negocio de por medio, denunciaron.

Es increíble que las autoridades no puedan hacer algo porque no tienen pruebas, cuando en internet se oferta una gran cantidad de servicios turísticos.

Hay "gringos" que se dan el lujo de recoger a sus clientes en el aeropuerto, los hospedan en sus casas, les rentan lanchas, motos, carros y hasta bicicletas, les ofrecen cocina y alacenas llenas de artículos estadounidenses, lo cual provoca que los loretanos cada vez tengan menos trabajo a pesar de que sí arriban turistas.

A partir de octubre, cientos de extranjeros jubilados empiezan a llegar a Loreto y muchos no vienen sólo a descansar, vienen a trabajar, robándole las oportunidades a los locales sin la mínima actuación de las autoridades, afirmaron.

Providers of tourist services are asking the National Immigration Institute (INM) to do something to stop the unfair competition by foreigners and to stop them from displacing the boat and hotel operators with the illegal renting of their boats and homes.

In an interview at the waterfront malecón, the service providers said the worst crisis they have to face is the apathy of the authorities to stop the tax evasion of many foreigners who come to do business in Mexico.

Meanwhile, our hotels are empty and our pangas do not sail for the lack of tourism. The Gringos and Canadians come here very well organized and bring clients, while saying they are just friends or family, when we well know they are doing business.

It is incredible that the authorities cannot do anything because the have no proof, when on the internet they are offering a large number of tourist services.

There are "Gringos" who even pick up their clients at the airport, they house them in their homes, they rent them boats, motorcycles, cars and even bicycles. They offer them kitchens full of American food items, which means the people of Loreto have less work each time even though tourists are arriving.

Starting in October, hundreds of retired tourists start to arrive in Loreto and many arrive not just to rest, they come to work, stealing the opportunities from the locals without the slightest action by the authorities.

surfdoc - 11-17-2011 at 11:01 AM

Just my .02$

But looks like a wake up call to many of the gringos residing in Baja...........

And I understand the Mexicans concern on this topic...........

Again JMPO

Barry A. - 11-17-2011 at 11:14 AM

I understand their concern also, but what goes around comes around, it seems to me.

Free Market competition in action--------the "open borders" crowd should love this.

Now, if we had enforced border regulations for those moving both ways (N & S) then it might be brought more under control. Borders do matter since radically diferent economies DO EXIST. Europe is now learning this very hard lesson.

Barry

rhintransit - 11-17-2011 at 11:16 AM

I know it happens. especially in rental properties. don't have any personal experience with the boating/fishing part.
I also know a number of friends who have gone to the time and effort to be legal and pay their taxes.
whether getting everyone legal is the point, or the issue is deeper...wanting no competition legal or illegal...I don't know.
but the concern is valid.

DianaT - 11-17-2011 at 11:19 AM

This is not new, but seems to be gathering more and more press and support.

IMHO, there are lots of areas for legitimate complaints and concerns, and if someone does not have a legal business, well even a simple task like cleaning fish for a fee takes work away from a local.

In a Loreto RV park a few years ago, we had some Canadian tourists offer to sell us some fish; we refused and bought from a local.

Offering full tourist services from the US or Canada without proper business licenses is, IMHO a legitimate complaint.

Yet there are several grey areas that leave lots of questions.

1. Some people, including us, offer our guest room to friends for no compensation. Perhaps that is taking away from local businesses, but we built the guest room for our friends and family. Usually the friend or family member will offer to take us out to eat, or cook a dinner, or provide some nice drinks. But that is what friends do.

2. Some Mexicans offer their homes to people for no compensation, or perhaps just a donation. They are not licensed.

3. Ex=-pats with boats often take out their friends fishing and usually the friends will help pay for the gas etc. just as a friendly gesture.

4. Locals sometimes take gringo friends out fishing on a friendship basis.

5. When is it a friend and how can that be determined. Example, a gringo meets some other gringos one night in a restaurant---they hit it off, and gringo number one invites the other gringos to go fishing. They don't ask for any compensation, but out of politeness, the other gringos pay for the gas.

6. Mexican and gringo friends often bring us fresh fish as we don't fish. While not expected, we almost always give back a gift of something that is difficult to obtain in BA like real butter, or good bacon, etc.

Just some thoughts about some grey areas.

[Edited on 11-17-2011 by DianaT]

bajalou - 11-17-2011 at 11:25 AM

They have made sweeps through San Felipe in the past and made several gringos get proper paperwork.

Bajaboy - 11-17-2011 at 11:41 AM

Am I going to get in trouble if I invite a neighbor over for a cold one?

Barry A. - 11-17-2011 at 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy
Am I going to get in trouble if I invite a neighbor over for a cold one?

Only if you "charge" him.

Puckdrop - 11-17-2011 at 12:04 PM

Hummmm, nice to see that the locals differ Americans from Canadians. They called Americans gringos and Canadians Canadians, :lol:

I do fully support the locals in anyway we can. But if the government allows gringos and Canadians to set up shop, as long as they have all the paper work in line and pay the taxes. I have no problem with that. If they don't and do this underground, I fully support the local authorities to prosecute! If it's illegal, it's illegal !!!As for picking up friends and family at the airport, well I believe that should not be a problem. I am not going to sit at my Casa with my SUV in my driveway waiting for the local Taxi company to deliver my guests. We do help the locals in many ways just by inviting friends and family to Loreto. Don't they see that. It's called generating local tourism.

JESSE - 11-17-2011 at 12:26 PM

Ok, i am sending the federales to that area to take care of business.

DENNIS - 11-17-2011 at 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Puckdrop
I fully support the local authorities to prosecute! If it's illegal,

Truth is, if the authorities down there are anything like those up here, nothing will be done about it. They'll threaten and bluster, but won't do squat. They don't like to make moves that bring to mind the illegal work activity going on by Mexicans in the states.
Nothing new.

Dave - 11-17-2011 at 01:04 PM

So, everyone in Loreto is paying taxes...

Except the gringos?

Wanna bet? :rolleyes:

BajaBlanca - 11-17-2011 at 01:14 PM

well well well

interesting post .... something to ponder over

I have always told the locals here in Bocana that we provide the lodging, and we purposely have the local businesses provide fishing and meals (lunch and dinner) ....

but I gotta say, it is very hard and we may in fact start providing all meals..why ???

1. half the time the restaurants are not open even when it is time for them to be open

2. takes an awful long time to be served

3. local businesses can't or don't want to offer "facturas" (invoices) - which means they are not paying taxes ...

Very sad that the Lorentans think most foreigners are not legal .... bad PR no matter how you look at it.

motoged - 11-17-2011 at 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
...They don't like to make moves that bring to mind the illegal work activity going on by Mexicans in the states.Nothing new.

Mexicans working in the USA (legal or not) do a lot of jobs the US citizens don't want to do....US citizens in Mexico rarely work at such jobs (farm / domestic labour, etc)....instead, they are supplementing their "second home" or retirement lifestyle most of the time....

LaTijereta - 11-17-2011 at 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mengano
Spanish first, then English:

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n2309373.htm

They offer them kitchens full of American food items, which means the people of Loreto have less work each time even though tourists are arriving.

I guess we are not going to see a Costco or Sams Club here anytime soon.. :rolleyes:

motoged - 11-17-2011 at 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca
....we may in fact start providing all meals..why ???

1. half the time the restaurants are not open even when it is time for them to be open
2. takes an awful long time to be served
3. local businesses can't or don't want to offer "facturas" (invoices) - which means they are not paying taxes ...

B&B,
#1&2 ...."Welcome to Mexico, relax, you are on a vacation" is what you can tell your guests....it ain't Denny's !

#3 ...Why does someone need a receipt for a meal in La Bocana? Trying to write pleasure off as business????

Maybe a Walmart in town would make your guests feel more at home. :biggrin:

J.P. - 11-17-2011 at 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rhintransit
I know it happens. especially in rental properties. don't have any personal experience with the boating/fishing part.
I also know a number of friends who have gone to the time and effort to be legal and pay their taxes.
whether getting everyone legal is the point, or the issue is deeper...wanting no competition legal or illegal...I don't know.
but the concern is valid.

I know people That jumped through all the hoops and Still were Treated unfairly. The system is set up to insure failure of the foriegn owner :?:

JESSE - 11-17-2011 at 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by J.P.

Quote:

I know people That jumped through all the hoops and Still were Treated unfairly. The system is set up to insure failure of the foriegn owner :?:

Really? all but one Mexican bank is foreign owned, construction firms, hotel chains, cel phone companies, all foreign, i say Mexico has been extremely good to foreign companies.

Pescador - 11-17-2011 at 02:00 PM

There is a lot of misunderstood interactions taking place and part of this issue is what probably led to the fees being charged at the launch ramp in Loreto. It is very easy to assume, especially if you do not really understand the cultural differences and language that everyone besides the owners who go out on a boat would be potential customers, but that is far from being the case. When you make your living by fishing with clients, it is too easy to see everyone as a potential customer when a high percentage of those people would not likely be customers at all. I fish most of the time with a local fisherman who is a very talented and able person on the water. Because there is not enough of a client base in the Santa Rosalia area to support a commercial guide, he continues to make his living from his talents as a fisherman. We have looked long and hard at the commercial guide issue for him but the truth is that only a limited number of people avail themselves of that when it is available.
So, it is very easy, when times are really tough for the guides and locals to assume that their business is being stolen from them, when in fact probably only a small amount of that actually goes on. I do know of a person who retired way too early and he always seems to be the one who ends up going out as a guide on tourist boats or takes them on his boat to cover the gas expense and the locals are savvy enough to see that when it happens, but it is just one of those grey areas that never really get settled or changed. The local guy is not going to work for beer and some friendship and the "snowbird" is not going to charge the same thing as the local guide.

DENNIS - 11-17-2011 at 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by motoged
[#3 ...Why does someone need a receipt for a meal in La Bocana? Trying to write pleasure off as business????

It's not a matter of customer need. It's a matter of the business being required by law to give a receipt. Keeps them honest in Hacienda's eyes.

Mengano - 11-17-2011 at 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
i say Mexico has been extremely good to foreign companies.

Except for when Mexico nationalized all the banks in 1982. And except for when Mexico expropriated and nationalized all the oil in 1938. Other than that, Mexico has been extremely good. Oh yeah, and except for those restrictive real estate laws that prevent foreigners from owning real estate outright in the prohibited zone. But other than those three things, Mexico has been extremely good.

Oh yeah, foreigners cannot own transportation companies, electric utilities, communication by satellite, railroads and radio and television stations. But, other than all that, Mexico has been extremely good.

DENNIS - 11-17-2011 at 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mengano
Except for when Mexico nationalized all the banks in 1982.

They took banks from everybody....foreigners and Mexicans alike. I watched them do it. Went up on the bank roofs with machine guns and traded the corporate flag with the National flag.
A friend of mine was a small bank owner one day, and the next he was working in a paint store.

DENNIS - 11-17-2011 at 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mengano
Oh yeah, foreigners cannot own communication by satellite,

You mean, sat phones are illegal for a foreigner? :?:

Islandbuilder - 11-17-2011 at 03:04 PM

I empathize with the locals. I'm in a similar situation in Alaska. I'm a legal charter vessel, with permits from the Forest Service, Park Service, Fish and Game, and the Coast Guard. I pay thousands in annual permit fees, and spend many hours doing pre and post season reports. All because I'm trying to "do it right" as a commercial charter vessel.

My competition is the bare boat fleet, no permits, no fees, no restrictions on areas of operation, no licensed guide requirement, etc.

There used to be a fairly clear difference between the bare boat operators and ourselves, but the lines are getting more and more fuzzy all the time.

I have appealed to the authorities for equal treatment, but so far I've been met with silence.

The locals know who is coloring outside the lines, and who is just taking out their friends and family, but there is no way to really separate those who are paying clients, and those who are friends and family. But, if you have a website offering nightly lodging and a fishing package, you had better watch out, that sort of advertising paints a pretty visible bullseye on your back.

Mula - 11-17-2011 at 05:03 PM

Island builder:
You live in Washington and run a business in Alaska . . . That's part of the problem.
Taking the profits out of state. Be better if you lived and worked in Alaska.
That's from the Alaskan to outsider point of view.

Cell Phone Companies?

Bajahowodd - 11-17-2011 at 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

Quote:

Originally posted by J.P.

Quote:

I know people That jumped through all the hoops and Still were Treated unfairly. The system is set up to insure failure of the foriegn owner :?:

Really? all but one Mexican bank is foreign owned, construction firms, hotel chains, cel phone companies, all foreign, i say Mexico has been extremely good to foreign companies.

And just what country does Carlos Slim call home?

As for the banks. That is actually a major problem for the world economy going forward. There are actually many banks in the US that have their roots in Europe.

The bank thing may be the single most difficult issue going forward for any elected government (whose members are not on the take), inasmuch as under the umbrella of capitalism, huge banking operators have so many options to avoid taxes, avoid responsibility, and just accrue massive amounts of cash offshore.

Islandbuilder - 11-17-2011 at 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chupa
Island builder:
You live in Washington and run a business in Alaska . . . That's part of the problem.
Taking the profits out of state. Be better if you lived and worked in Alaska.
That's from the Alaskan to outsider point of view.

Profits!!

I think we do better than most outside companies, our guests spend a couple of nights in hotels coming and going, we do all of our provisioning and fueling in state, and hire several locals as shore support. Plus, all of our crew essentially lives in state for the summer, just like you, given that you show a Baja winter residence.

JESSE - 11-17-2011 at 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajahowodd

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE

Quote:

Originally posted by J.P.

Quote:

Movistar is spanish owned.

I know people That jumped through all the hoops and Still were Treated unfairly. The system is set up to insure failure of the foriegn owner :?:

Really? all but one Mexican bank is foreign owned, construction firms, hotel chains, cel phone companies, all foreign, i say Mexico has been extremely good to foreign companies.

Dave - 11-17-2011 at 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
all but one Mexican bank is foreign owned, construction firms, hotel chains, cel phone companies, all foreign, i say Mexico has been extremely good to foreign companies.

There's a big difference between a foreign company operating in Mexico and a Mexican company owned by a foreigner.

Guess which wheel can afford the grease.

CJ - 11-18-2011 at 10:24 AM

SMALL TOWN......SMALL MINDS...somethings will never change....as is Loreto. It's fine with me I've gotten used to it over the years.....CJ :bounce:

Cypress - 11-18-2011 at 11:53 AM

If there's a legitimate complaint, you can bet the bank that the "authorities" would come down on 'em like a ton of bricks. In any case, the "night court" would probably render their boat/trailer/vehicle useless. Vigilante justice works when the professionals fail to do their job.

Frank - 11-18-2011 at 12:45 PM

If there were more tourists coming to Mexico, I dont think this would be as big an issue.

Fix the real problem, low tourism. {I know thats a loaded issue with many layers}

I only get to go to Baja on vacation. One of my favorite things to do is to bring people down with us, so they can see how great the whole experience can be. Its really hard to drag more tourist dollars down with me when everyone I know thinks we are crazy for driving south.

Cypress - 11-18-2011 at 01:00 PM

Frank, It is a whole new exerience.

Loretana - 11-18-2011 at 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CJ
SMALL TOWN......SMALL MINDS...somethings will never change....as is Loreto. It's fine with me I've gotten used to it over the years.....CJ :bounce:

CJ....You can say that again.

In my humble opinion, there is a good deal of "envidio" (envy) at work here.....

Some high profile Americans here in town own beautiful beachfront properties, have very nice boats and seem to have a constant stream of clients (oops, family and friends) who visit often.

The fact that these same Americans ARE registered with Hacienda and are undoubtedly paying taxes does not lessen the feelings they are stirring up among the local sportfishing panga owners.

Ni modo. :saint:

DENNIS - 11-18-2011 at 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loretana
The fact that these same Americans ARE registered with Hacienda and are undoubtedly paying taxes does not lessen the feelings they are stirring up among the local sportfishing panga owners.

So....they don't want foreigners working legally either? Living as close to the border as I do, I have a hard time with that.

BajaBlanca - 11-18-2011 at 03:06 PM

those who need invoices are those who are here on business !

it really is a touchy issue and perhaps if there were more tourists, it might be a moot point.

DENNIS - 11-18-2011 at 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca
it really is a touchy issue and perhaps if there were more tourists, it might be a moot point.

Why should foreigners who work legally be penalized because tourism has gone to hell :?:

The market will decide who survives in any industry.

Loretana - 11-18-2011 at 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca
it really is a touchy issue and perhaps if there were more tourists, it might be a moot point.

Why should foreigners who work legally be penalized because tourism has gone to hell :?:

The market will decide who survives in any industry.

Quite frankly, Blanca and Dennis
I agree with both of you....

But that doesn't change the fact that locals here are jealous....of what they once exclusively controlled (or so they thought)

Which reminds me, it was an American, Ed Tabor who put Loreto on the so called "sportfishing map" back in the 1950's......... :light:

DENNIS - 11-18-2011 at 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loretana
Which reminds me, it was an American, Ed Tabor who put Loreto on the so called "sportfishing map" back in the 1950's......... :light:

Ohh yeah. The Flying Sportsman Lodge. Knew it well.

DENNIS - 11-18-2011 at 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loretana
But that doesn't change the fact that locals here are jealous....

Jealousy?? More like Xenophobia. Their government has taught them well....to blame everything on someone else.

David K - 11-18-2011 at 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Loretana
Which reminds me, it was an American, Ed Tabor who put Loreto on the so called "sportfishing map" back in the 1950's......... :light:

Ohh yeah. The Flying Sportsman Lodge. Knew it well.

My dad's first trips to Loreto were on Ed Tabor's DC-3 and great stays at the Flying Sportsman Lodge.

Aero Mexico (the government run airline) took away his permit to fly passengers to Loreto or his newer Magdalena Bay Village resort... pretty much killed Ed's business. We stayed at the 'newly added' RV Park next to the Lodge on our 1976 trip... The Flying Sportsman Lodge didn't last much long after...

flying sportsmen-r.JPG - 48kB

CaboRon - 11-19-2011 at 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Puckdrop
I fully support the local authorities to prosecute! If it's illegal,

CaboRon - 11-19-2011 at 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mengano

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
i say Mexico has been extremely good to foreign companies.

Thank you for clearing that up ... those thoughts are what was going through my mind.

CaboRon - 11-19-2011 at 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Islandbuilder

Quote:

Profits!!

What a joke ... you ARE an outside company in Alaska :bounce:

Mula - 11-19-2011 at 06:50 AM

Baja is not a winter residence for me. I have lived here full time for 5 years.

Woooosh - 11-19-2011 at 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by JESSE
all but one Mexican bank is foreign owned, construction firms, hotel chains, cel phone companies, all foreign, i say Mexico has been extremely good to foreign companies.

There's a big difference between a foreign company operating in Mexico and a Mexican company owned by a foreigner.

Guess which wheel can afford the grease.

The one with the money laundering operation?

Woooosh - 11-19-2011 at 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca
it really is a touchy issue and perhaps if there were more tourists, it might be a moot point.

Why should foreigners who work legally be penalized because tourism has gone to hell :?:

The market will decide who survives in any industry.

That assumes a level playing field.

DENNIS - 11-19-2011 at 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
That assumes a level playing field.

Not on my part. Been here too long to ever assume anything like that.
My question was rhetorical.

Islandbuilder - 11-19-2011 at 02:14 PM

We seem to be mixing legal gringo sportfishing guides and hospitality business owners and those who are doing the same stuff illegally (without permits).

I assume that the locals don't differentiate between those of us North Americans who are conducting legal permitted businesses and those who aren't.

I would suggest that those LEGAL gringos act proactively to form a charter boat group, and then act as a group against all illegal businesses, gringo or local.

Same in the hospitality business end.

I don't live there, but have some small experience in a similar situation (see the local vs non-local point made above).

As more of us are needing to figure out some sort of working retirement, more will be finding ways to make some additional money out of our home or fishing passion. Unless we do it "by the book" it is certainly going to cause strife with our neighbors.

Mengano - 11-19-2011 at 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Islandbuilder
I assume that the locals don't differentiate between those of us North Americans who are conducting legal permitted businesses and those who aren't.

There is no way to enforce it. The gringos rent their homes over the internet and get paid by the renters in the US and collect no money in Mexico. It is even debatable whether that is illegal in Mexico. You can rent a car in San Diego and, with permission, drive it into Mexico for a vacation. The car rental company does not need a Mexican business license not does it report its rent to Mexico. Sharing gas expenses on somebody's boat does not require a Mexican license any more than splitting a restaurant bill between two couple dining together requires a license.

If the Mexicans want to compete with that, they need to beat the gringos on price and services. Something they cannot, or will not do. These tourists are no so dumb. If they can have a vacation cheaper by staying at a hotel in Loreto and with equal or better amenities and services, they will spend their money there.

The entire Mexican business system is built on a foundation of limited competition and crony capitalism. They cannot compete head-to-head without their built-in protectionism.

Cypress - 11-19-2011 at 02:45 PM

Somebody throw in a little cheese with that big "Whine". :biggrin:

What a big bunch of cry babies! A gringo takes friends fishing, lets 'em stay at their house, cooks dinner for 'em. Get a rope and hang 'em, deport 'em. Good grief!! What a crock of BS! Must be hard times for the "rip' off the tourist" crowd.

Loretana - 11-19-2011 at 02:48 PM

Originally posted by Islandbuilder

"I would suggest that those LEGAL gringos act proactively to form a charter boat group, and then act as a group against all illegal businesses, gringo or local."

BAD IDEA. Especially here in Loreto.

Islandbuilder - 11-19-2011 at 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loretana
Originally posted by Islandbuilder

"I would suggest that those LEGAL gringos act proactively to form a charter boat group, and then act as a group against all illegal businesses, gringo or local."

BAD IDEA. Especially here in Loreto.

Yeah, I thought that it might be. I forgot to take my Rose Colored glasses off before I posted.

805gregg - 11-19-2011 at 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by motoged
[#3 ...Why does someone need a receipt for a meal in La Bocana? Trying to write pleasure off as business????

It's not a matter of customer need. It's a matter of the business being required by law to give a receipt. Keeps them honest in Hacienda's eyes.

Isn't honest in Mexico an oxymarooon? The locals should be glad someone is showing up at all, they will be spending money all over.

[Edited on 11-20-2011 by 805gregg]

[Edited on 11-20-2011 by 805gregg]

[Edited on 11-20-2011 by BajaNomad]

Loretana - 11-19-2011 at 06:41 PM

Let's give the Loreto Hotelero Association and the Fishing Cooperativa/Pangeros a break here, folks.

Yes, they are a bunch of whiners, and it seems awfully childish that they are moaning that gringos are pulling into the Marina and launching their Triumphs, Skipjacks and Grady Whites and taking their "buddies" out fishing.......those same buddies who are populating their luxury homes north and south of town and all that money that is changing hands in the US......

Excuse me, but wouldn't you (if you were a Loretano who owns a panga and waits at the Marina daily to see if just maybe, some guys want to head out with YOU to fish), maybe you might feel a bit peeed about these rich Norteamericanos with their lanchas and houses, etc??

Hey, I'm all for free enterprise, but I speak the language, and I overhear what the boys down at the Darsena are saying.

Just my two cents. :saint:

Loretana - 11-19-2011 at 07:36 PM

My Secret Weapon....

Jose Luis Mayoral Barreno

By far, the most sucessful and intense gentleman I have ever fished with, short of, and including my husband.....who is a great bluewater fisherman!

In short, it does pay to fish with the local boys.

Paula - 11-19-2011 at 07:39 PM

Exactly my thoughts and feelings about this amiga Loretana!

Edit: my thoughts on BOTH posts! We go out with a few oldtimers down here from time to time-- always a great experience!

[Edited on 11-20-2011 by Paula]

mtgoat666 - 11-19-2011 at 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mengano
Spanish first, then English:

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n2309373.htm

Loreto, Baja California Sur.- Prestadores de servicios turísticos están pidiendo al Instituto Nacional de Migración (INM) que se haga algo para detener la competencia desleal de extranjeros y no sigan desplazando a los lancheros y hoteleros locales con la renta de sus botes y casas de forma irregular.

En entrevistado en la dársena del malecón, los prestadores de servicios señalaron que la peor crisis que pueden enfrentar es la apatía de las autoridades para ponerle un freno a la evasión de impuestos de muchos extranjeros que vienen a hacer negocio en México.

Mientras nuestros hoteles están vacíos y nuestras pangas no salen por falta de turismo, los gringos y canadienses vienen ya organizados y traen clientes argumentando que son sus amigos o familiares, cuando todos sabemos que hay un negocio de por medio, denunciaron.

Es increíble que las autoridades no puedan hacer algo porque no tienen pruebas, cuando en internet se oferta una gran cantidad de servicios turísticos.

Hay "gringos" que se dan el lujo de recoger a sus clientes en el aeropuerto, los hospedan en sus casas, les rentan lanchas, motos, carros y hasta bicicletas, les ofrecen cocina y alacenas llenas de artículos estadounidenses, lo cual provoca que los loretanos cada vez tengan menos trabajo a pesar de que sí arriban turistas.

A partir de octubre, cientos de extranjeros jubilados empiezan a llegar a Loreto y muchos no vienen sólo a descansar, vienen a trabajar, robándole las oportunidades a los locales sin la mínima actuación de las autoridades, afirmaron.

Providers of tourist services are asking the National Immigration Institute (INM) to do something to stop the unfair competition by foreigners and to stop them from displacing the boat and hotel operators with the illegal renting of their boats and homes.

In an interview at the waterfront malecón, the service providers said the worst crisis they have to face is the apathy of the authorities to stop the tax evasion of many foreigners who come to do business in Mexico.

Meanwhile, our hotels are empty and our pangas do not sail for the lack of tourism. The Gringos and Canadians come here very well organized and bring clients, while saying they are just friends or family, when we well know they are doing business.

It is incredible that the authorities cannot do anything because the have no proof, when on the internet they are offering a large number of tourist services.

There are "Gringos" who even pick up their clients at the airport, they house them in their homes, they rent them boats, motorcycles, cars and even bicycles. They offer them kitchens full of American food items, which means the people of Loreto have less work each time even though tourists are arriving.

Starting in October, hundreds of retired tourists start to arrive in Loreto and many arrive not just to rest, they come to work, stealing the opportunities from the locals without the slightest action by the authorities.

fulano:
why did you post this without revealing that you are (or were) one of the offending gringos? did you file proper tax returns in USA and mexico did you declare income?

Hook - 11-20-2011 at 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loretana
Let's give the Loreto Hotelero Association and the Fishing Cooperativa/Pangeros a break here, folks.

Yes, they are a bunch of whiners, and it seems awfully childish that they are moaning that gringos are pulling into the Marina and launching their Triumphs, Skipjacks and Grady Whites and taking their "buddies" out fishing.......those same buddies who are populating their luxury homes north and south of town and all that money that is changing hands in the US......

Excuse me, but wouldn't you (if you were a Loretano who owns a panga and waits at the Marina daily to see if just maybe, some guys want to head out with YOU to fish), maybe you might feel a bit peeed about these rich Norteamericanos with their lanchas and houses, etc??

No, I wouldnt. That's petty envy.

What, rich MEXICANS dont launch THEIR boats and take THEIR friends out, free of charge?

Maybe they'd like Mexico to pass a law that says you cant take your friends out on your boat with you?? This is not that far-fetched when you consider that friends helping you build your house is said to be illegal, too.

You seem to be saying this is about envy, rather than anything illegal. And I concur. Envy, that is surfacing in hard times.

Well, they can thank their own government for conditions that were so succinctly put above. Conditions of limited competition and cronyism that prevents a more viable middle class from forming AND keeps the cost of goods comparatively high.

Instead they wanna blame gringos, as usual................. :rolleyes:

Where WOULD Loreto be today without gringo dollars????

[Edited on 11-20-2011 by Hook]

DENNIS - 11-20-2011 at 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loretana
Excuse me, but wouldn't you (if you were a Loretano who owns a panga and waits at the Marina daily to see if just maybe, some guys want to head out with YOU to fish), maybe you might feel a bit peeed about these rich Norteamericanos with their lanchas and houses, etc??

And...where is all the outrage for the small TIENDA owners when WalMart comes to town?

I empathize with you, Loretana, but feel your outrage is selective....and misplaced.

The Panga fleet may have to be a bit creative....like go commercial to generate an income.

Sweetwater - 11-20-2011 at 01:50 PM

I just want to kick in here and say:

Thanks for the edjumacation........fascinating topic and information for me......... :wow:

slimshady - 11-21-2011 at 01:20 AM

Mexicans worrying aboutCanadians and Gringoes taking away business from Mexicans. Now they know how it is to live in California with all the illegals. Get used to it.

David K - 11-21-2011 at 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by slimshady
Mexicans worrying aboutCanadians and Gringoes taking away business from Mexicans. Now they know how it is to live in California with all the illegals. Get used to it.

I'm out of touch with California-- do many folks there feel like the illegals are actually competing with them professionally? :?:

For construction... and landscaping/ gardening... yes. They live very cheaply with several to a house or apartment, and offer their services for less than legal residents do. People trying to cut costs then hire the cheaper service provider.

Illegals get paid less because they request less, not because they are taken advantage of.

sanquintinsince73 - 11-21-2011 at 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by slimshady
Mexicans worrying aboutCanadians and Gringoes taking away business from Mexicans. Now they know how it is to live in California with all the illegals. Get used to it.

I'm out of touch with California-- do many folks there feel like the illegals are actually competing with them professionally? :?:

By professionally do you mean those that have a piece of paper that states that they have a degree? I don't know. But just look at the trolley loading up every day at San Ysidro coming north and there is standing room only. They keep coming every ten minutes starting at five in the morning. Most of these people are just "residents" coming to work here and then spend their money in TJ. Godamn right they are taking our jobs!

Woooosh - 11-21-2011 at 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sanquintinsince73

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by slimshady
Mexicans worrying aboutCanadians and Gringoes taking away business from Mexicans. Now they know how it is to live in California with all the illegals. Get used to it.

I'm out of touch with California-- do many folks there feel like the illegals are actually competing with them professionally? :?:

and your schools... thousand of TJ kids cross every morning to go to school in the USA and then return home each night.

My definition of "Career Professional" is one that requires advanced education and a college degree. I don't see many Mexican professionals taking American jobs- their clients are likely other Mexicans or Spanish-only speakers who wouldn't be comfortable or welcome is an English-only environment anyhow.

sanquintinsince73 - 11-21-2011 at 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

Originally posted by sanquintinsince73

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by slimshady
Mexicans worrying aboutCanadians and Gringoes taking away business from Mexicans. Now they know how it is to live in California with all the illegals. Get used to it.

I'm out of touch with California-- do many folks there feel like the illegals are actually competing with them professionally? :?:

Ahh yes the kids. Thousands of them every day getting a free ride in our public schools and all's they need is an address that someone lent them. I think the state spends something like $6,000 on each kid in California....legal and illegal.

David K - 11-21-2011 at 09:47 AM

Isn't it funny that if Americans did what the Mexicans do (ie. send our kids south daily for school or work for less than locals in Mexico)... the Mexican government and people would (and do) put their foot down and stop it. How about vote in their elections?

However, here north of the border, we must have 'compassion' and allow our country to be violated... :rolleyes:

To ask for an ID when you go to vote is illegal in the U.S. !!! LOL

mtgoat666 - 11-21-2011 at 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sanquintinsince73

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by slimshady
Mexicans worrying aboutCanadians and Gringoes taking away business from Mexicans. Now they know how it is to live in California with all the illegals. Get used to it.

I'm out of touch with California-- do many folks there feel like the illegals are actually competing with them professionally? :?:

san73:
the people you mention crossing border daily are legals, not the illegals that was subject at hand. re legals, it's a border, and best to have trade and jobs flow across border, better for economy for all. if you want zero cross border economic trade, then prepare for economy to colapse on both sides of border.

re kids crossing border to go to school in USA. good for them, hope they succeed. if they can get visa to cross daily, then their familiess probably sufficiently contribute to economy (i.e. pay taxes in US) to justify their school costs. and many of those crossing are going to pvt schools, what you see is not always what you understand!

anywho, the mex kids probably enrich lives of gringo kids they meet at school. as we know from another thread, most gringos have abandoned their kids to us schools for parenting by state, eh?

sanquintinsince73 - 11-21-2011 at 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by sanquintinsince73

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by slimshady
Mexicans worrying aboutCanadians and Gringoes taking away business from Mexicans. Now they know how it is to live in California with all the illegals. Get used to it.

I'm out of touch with California-- do many folks there feel like the illegals are actually competing with them professionally? :?:

Granted, most who cross the border everyday with legal papers do have a right to be here and seek employment, even if they are undercutting American workers. As far as kids go, many are here illegally and will not even finish high school. That I know first hand. Half the kids at Southwest High from TJ drop out eventually or do not have enough credits to graduate. As far as enriching "gringo" kids, there aren't anymore "gringo" kids to enrich. They've moved on to schools out of the area in order to get a better education. With the majority of classrooms here in the Southbay having Spanish-speaking kids who don't want to learn anyway, teachers are forced to teach at a lower level of education. That leaves G.A.T.E. kids like mine screwed.

That is why my kids go to school in I.B., better education and they still do say the Pledge of Allegiance in class everyday.

DianaT - 11-21-2011 at 12:14 PM

Not all, but many of the children from Mexico who cross the border to attend school in Calexico pay to do so. Many attend the local Catholic schools, or the Mission School.

Many of the ones who cross to attend the public schools also pay so they are legal. And there are students who live on both sides of the border.

Several of my best high school students were from Mexico---either recent immigrants or still living in Mexico. They had a real desire to learn everything. Some of them attend school in Mexico until 7th grade, and then attend school in the US. They have a real respect for education and learning English. I even had a few who did not speak a word of English until the 7th grade pass, or come close to passing the Advanced Placement US History Test; it is the AP test with the lowest pass rate!

As a nation of immigrants, these students are a real plus to the equation.

[Edited on 11-21-2011 by DianaT]

sanquintinsince73 - 11-21-2011 at 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
By professionally do you mean those that have a piece of paper that states that they have a degree?

Nah, more in the vein of "any vocation or business." As in a full-time ditch digger contrasting with the guy in the burbs who's putting in a few sprinkler lines for his backyard garden (the former is a professional, making a living at it.)

What I am curious about is actual reality vs the common allegation that "these people do jobs 'real' Americans won't". I.e. are they taking "our" jobs, or doing stuff that would otherwise be hard to accomplish?

As David says, there's for sure competition in areas such as landscaping and construction... it's less clear to me about other fields.

I consider "taking our jobs" by legals or illegals, as someone who is here as a resident alien working legally or illegally in any trade. Many, many residents who work here in San Diego County live in TJ. They don't care about the United States or about assimilating. They just want to earn "dolares" and then go spend it in TJ. As a former Real Estate agent I knew way to many agents with D.R.E. licenses who are residents and living in TJ. I also knew of many who acted as agents and had licensed agents do all of the paperwork for their clients.

Dave - 11-21-2011 at 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
I consider "taking our jobs" by legals or illegals, as someone who is here as a resident alien working legally or illegally in any trade.

No one is "taking jobs" as ultimately it's up to the employer to decide who works.

durrelllrobert - 11-21-2011 at 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by motoged
Mexicans working in the USA (legal or not) do a lot of jobs the US citizens don't want to do

??? who did those jobs before the illegals arrived???

Barry A. - 11-21-2011 at 12:59 PM

Me and my friends, for a while when we were in school.

Barry

Hook - 11-21-2011 at 01:14 PM

Fixing computers for old farts like us.

durrelllrobert - 11-21-2011 at 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
Me and my friends, for a while when we were in school.

Barry

EXACTLY. Now those jobs are not available for students and yes, the illegals (pardon me; undocumented) workers do it better and faster.

bajalou - 11-21-2011 at 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho
I sure did. In high school it was we young folk who did most of the manual or "unskilled" labor around our town. We got paid less than adults, but we were inexperienced and it was our break-in to the job market.

Currently one can wander the streets of that town and not see a single anglo doing yard maintenance. How are kids earning money these days? :?:

Times they are a changin---

I too did yard work in the summer for what ever money I had. Also worked in the harvest - but there weren't enough kids-young people- etc. to handle the harvesting of the farm and orchard crops so migrants came to do the bulk of the harvest. And they produced 2-3 times as much in the same time. The start of school in the fall was occasionally set back to let the kids work the peaches.

But in these days, particularly in the cities, a lot of parents don't want their future bankers, doctors, and lawyers to have to that menial work.

Islandbuilder - 11-21-2011 at 02:00 PM

In the 70's and 80's the fish processors we delivered to were staffed by college students. Now, it's 90% hispanic. Interesting to be able to practice my Spanish in SE Alaska.

bajabass - 11-21-2011 at 02:47 PM

I seem to remember mowing and edging, shoveling snow, raking leaves, painting, anything I could do to earn money. Then came the high school/college jobs. Plumbing pools and spas, pumping gas, fixing cars.

Find enough 16-21 year old spoiled gringo brats to replace all the legal and illegal immigrants working entry-level/low skill set jobs before you fire all the immigrants :lol:

OR, put all the welfare and unemployed workers in those jobs??? :rolleyes:

DENNIS - 11-21-2011 at 03:37 PM

My first job..................

Pulling Paddle Boards up on the beach and washing off the sand to prepare them for the next rental at Duke's Paddle Board Stand in Balboa, right in front of Stan's Gangplank, a beer bar on the Bay. It was right when the war ended and a happier bunch of people I've never seen since.

Anyway....I worked for a hamburger and soda a day. That was my introduction to the big time.

bajabass - 11-21-2011 at 03:55 PM

Sorry, threadjack over. I had given thought to a little "taking my friends out" fishing venture upon my arrival to BCS. After a year of trying to learn a new fishery, and seeing how many locals are out of work at the ramps and beaches, I'm not even thinking about it at all.
Legit or not, I don't want to do anything here to adversly affect the locals. I don't "need" the money badly enough to give up the smiles from my neighbors and budding friendships amongst the locals.
Comparing disgruntled locals and likeminded gringos NOB is apples and oranges. Most gringo complainers NOB don't want their kids, let alone themselves doing the jobs most immigrants are filling. The gringos SOB ARE taking customers and clients from local fisherman lined up every day looking for work, and lodging/feeding people while the restaraunts and hotels are dying on the vine. JMHO

DENNIS - 11-21-2011 at 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass
Most gringo complainers NOB don't want their kids, let alone themselves doing the jobs most immigrants are filling.

I deeply wish that someone with credentials and resources would study the claim, "Immigrants are doing the jobs citizens don't want to do," and give a definitive, qualified and thorough appraisel of that statement.
Are immigrants taking jobs away from our kids, and others? Who would be tending to Duke's Paddle Boards if they were on the beach today?
It's strange, to me, that for all the times I've heard that claim, no one has stood up with a strong rebuttal backed by real numbers. If they have, I haven't seen or heard it.
Or, perhaps it's true.

.

[Edited on 11-21-2011 by DENNIS]

bajabass - 11-21-2011 at 04:57 PM

Sorry Dennis, I have neither! I have never seen a crew of white kids hanging out in the Home Depot parking lot though. Nary a one at the local carwash. Check out a McDonalds or Taco Bell. Though In-N-Out does hire lots of gringo kids, they start at way above minimum wage I've heard.

Cypress - 11-21-2011 at 05:01 PM

If the govt. wasn't paying citizens not to work they'd work. Why work when you don't have to?

DENNIS - 11-21-2011 at 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
If the govt. wasn't paying citizens not to work they'd work. Why work when you don't have to?

Yeah....this is sad. It seems to be going on indefinitly. It's turning out that unemployment has more value than a college education.
Gawwwdammmm.....what happened to our country? Where did we go so wrong?

O.G. - 11-21-2011 at 05:10 PM

Quote:

Dennis: Are immigrants taking jobs away from our kids, and others?
It's strange, to me, that for all the times I've heard that claim, no one has stood up with a strong rebuttal backed by real numbers. If they have, I haven't seen or heard it.
Or, perhaps it's true.

O.G.: When I was farming avocados I had use for laborers on a weekly basis. Where would I get them? Why, at the local Home Depot of course. However, when I observed the potential pool of laborers, not a single one was a gringo -- ALL were Hispanic. All the poor, homeless downtrodden gringos were at the freeway on/off ramps with cardboard signs begging, instead. No Hispanics begging! So, I would side with the camp that says illegals are taking jobs that the gringos don't want.

.

[Edited on 11-21-2011 by DENNIS]

Bajahowodd - 11-21-2011 at 05:17 PM

Wow! This thread really morphed far away from its original topic.

Getting back to what is happening in Loreto, my two cents is that Fonatur is to blame. The fact that they "christened" Loreto as the next big thing created a rush to real estate and business ownership among those NOB.

In my opinion, Loreto never had a chance to be the next Cabo or Cancun for a number of reasons. A primary reason is that it has a harsh climate. It's godawful hot and humid in the summer and not a whole lot warmer than the US Southwest in the winter.

Do not get me wrong, in that I have a great deal of affection for Loreto, having visited for decades. But, I just don't really see it being a major player in the Mexico tourism world. Sometimes smaller is better.

It is certainly true that the dearth of tourism to Mexico is a factor in the current woes of Loreto. But, as I said, I just think too many opportunistic folks thought this was going to be the next big thing.

It is going to be interesting to see what level of success the Villas Group property achieves down at Ensenada Blanca. As I've previously mentioned, its remoteness from town ensures that it will not create much of a boost to the Loreto economy.

However, with their mega-bucks, they did build that Hotel Santa Fe on Salvatiera. Gotta wonder how the family that runs Hacienda Suites on the next block feels about the corporate competition.

And, as for all that banter about educating Mexican kids, who legally cross, you guys need to get a life.

Just as the quick and dirty answer to the Loreto problem is more tourism, same can be said by folks in the US who accuse Mexicans and other immigrants of taking American jobs. Fact is Wall Street and the filthy rich captains of industry have set the US on a course of becoming a serfdom third world nation by shipping what were good paying jobs, wholesale, overseas as not so good paying jobs.

We've had decades of developing a generation of folks who believe that America's future is not about labor. It's about trading stock, bonds, commodities, Etc. We don't need to make anything. We just need to control the finance behind it.

DENNIS - 11-21-2011 at 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by O.G.
All the poor, homeless downtrodden gringos were at the freeway on/off ramps with cardboard signs begging, instead.

Ohhhh.....there isn't that much cardboard in the whole world.

Loretana - 11-21-2011 at 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass
Sorry, threadjack over. I had given thought to a little "taking my friends out" fishing venture upon my arrival to BCS. After a year of trying to learn a new fishery, and seeing how many locals are out of work at the ramps and beaches, I'm not even thinking about it at all.
Legit or not, I don't want to do anything here to adversly affect the locals. I don't "need" the money badly enough to give up the smiles from my neighbors and budding friendships amongst the locals.
Comparing disgruntled locals and likeminded gringos NOB is apples and oranges. Most gringo complainers NOB don't want their kids, let alone themselves doing the jobs most immigrants are filling. The gringos SOB ARE taking customers and clients from local fisherman lined up every day looking for work, and lodging/feeding people while the restaraunts and hotels are dying on the vine. JMHO

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!

Islandbuilder - 11-21-2011 at 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loretana

Quote:

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!

I think that this sort of self regulation is the only way these sorts of conflicts can be resolved.

bajabass - 11-21-2011 at 06:31 PM

I would be very worried if I were running a business under the table in Baja. I've heard the consequences can be confiscation of property and deportation. Those above board businesses need only worry about local opinion and possible retaliation. I just prefer to blend into my new home, not try to take it by storm.

Mengano - 11-21-2011 at 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass
I had given thought to a little "taking my friends out" fishing venture upon my arrival to BCS. After a year of trying to learn a new fishery, and seeing how many locals are out of work at the ramps and beaches, I'm not even thinking about it at all.
Legit or not, I don't want to do anything here to adversly affect the locals.

However, you have no problem in adversely affecting your "friends" by forcing them to dig into their pockets and hire a panga to fish when you have a boat. I just assume you really have no friends, at least not anymore. The term for your condition is called "Stockholm Syndrome."

greengoes - 11-21-2011 at 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
My first job..................

Pulling Paddle Boards up on the beach and washing off the sand to prepare them for the next rental at Duke's Paddle Board Stand in Balboa, right in front of Stan's Gangplank, a beer bar on the Bay. It was right when the war ended and a happier bunch of people I've never seen since.

Anyway....I worked for a hamburger and soda a day. That was my introduction to the big time.

Was that the Mexican-American War or WWI ?
:lol:

bajabass - 11-21-2011 at 06:44 PM

Wrong, I have a few that take me out on their boats!!! :lol:

I do believe you may have a condition though. :light:

Mengano - 11-21-2011 at 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
I deeply wish that someone with credentials and resources would study the claim, "Immigrants are doing the jobs citizens don't want to do," and give a definitive, qualified and thorough appraisel of that statement.

You people are asking the wrong question. There are plenty of legal immigrants around to take those jobs. Legal immigrants have been vetted by the immigration process, proved they have no police record, no active case of tuberculosis and they have legitimate social security numbers which will allow them to collect social security when they retire.

The issue is ILLEGAL immigrants who are taking jobs from LEGAL immigrants. Every time a business is raided by ICE and the illegal workers carted off, the company is back in business the next day with legal workers to replace the illegals. If all ILLEGAL workers were to disappear tomorrow, the unemployment rate would be cut in half. Not only that, the wages of the LEGAL workers would rise to a living wage.

ILLEGAL workers are the parasites that suck the jobs away from the legal workers, be they morenos or queros.

On September 13, 2011, Escondido Disposal Inc. fired more than 50 of its roughly 200 employees after a federal immigration audit found those workers lacked the documents required for jobs in the United States. The very next day, all of those workers were replaced with legal workers. So 50 jobs were created for legal residents of the US. Escondido Disposal obviously had no problem finding 50 people overnight willing to collect garbage.

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/escondido/article_34b39224...

Islandbuilder - 11-21-2011 at 07:35 PM

A local here purposely built a home with no guest accomodations, and had a boat whose guest bunk was in the engine room. That avoided the awkward moments when someone wanted to come for a summer cruise, or a long visit. If it was someone they wanted to hang out with, they put their guests up at a local B&B, or chartered a bare boat so they could go on a cruise together.

Perhaps building a more modest retirement place, with only one guest room for family, and a boat big enough for you and a friend, but not you and 5 friends?

For the record, this goes against my enjoyment of offering hospitality to all who seek it, but it may keep things less tense around the community.

I agree that we can take this too far, the Stockholm Syndrome comment is spot on for some of us. I also think that there would still be tension between some locals and some gringos, because that's the way people are, and nothing we do or don't do will fix it. Except giving up our homes and dreams and scuttling off.

DENNIS - 11-21-2011 at 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mengano
You people are asking the wrong question.

Yes. You're correct. Sometimes, after years of addressing the "illegal" issue, the term seems superfluous.
In the interest of accuracy, I'll keep this in mind.

DaliDali - 11-21-2011 at 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
If the govt. wasn't paying citizens not to work they'd work. Why work when you don't have to?

It went wrong when millions bought into the idea of hope and change without any means to pay for it.

KurtG - 11-21-2011 at 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass
Most gringo complainers NOB don't want their kids, let alone themselves doing the jobs most immigrants are filling.

I don't know if this is "definitive" but this link gives a firsthand view of what growers are up against. I know this man and he is a quality person who does right by his employees and just wants to have a workable system.

http://calcoastnews.com/2011/10/we-need-a-commonsense-guest-...

How do you compete with what UI is paying?

durrelllrobert - 11-22-2011 at 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabass

OR, put all the welfare and unemployed workers in those jobs??? :rolleyes:

The California Employment Development Department (EDD) determines your weekly benefit amount by dividing your earnings for the highest paid quarter of the base period by 26, up to a maximum of $450 per week.

Benefits are available for up to 26 weeks. If you are still unemployed when your regular state benefits run out, you may be eligible for Emergency Unemployment Compensation (EUC) and/or state extended benefits. These additional programs -- which were enacted to help those who became unemployed during the recession that began in 2008 -- currently provide up to 73 weeks of additional benefits

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