BajaNomad

Mordida!

agrd - 11-20-2011 at 09:20 AM

This came to me late one night (not, fortunately, that I've had any actual experience with the subject). Feel free to add verses.

Mordida! (to the tune of "Maria" from "West Side Story")

Mordida! I just paid a bribe called mordida,
And suddenly I know
Corruption in Cabo
Is real!

[more verses here]

Mordida! Say it loud and it sounds like braying.
Say it soft while the cop is sashaying.
Mordida! I'll never stop paying
Mordida!

DENNIS - 11-20-2011 at 09:21 AM

Clever.........:lol::light:

Thanks.

deportes - 11-20-2011 at 09:32 AM

Corruption in Mexico is real and is not going away any time soon.
It is a way of life, I don't like it but I paid mordida many times while living 4 years in Mexico City in the 70's, I looked at it as a way of helping the street cop that was way underpaid and had to make a living somehow to support his family.

DianaT - 11-20-2011 at 09:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by agrd
This came to me late one night (not, fortunately, that I've had any actual experience with the subject). Feel free to add verses.

Mordida! (to the tune of "Maria" from "West Side Story")

Mordida! I just paid a bribe called mordida,
And suddenly I know
Corruption in Cabo
Is real!

[more verses here]

Mordida! Say it loud and it sounds like braying.
Say it soft while the cop is sashaying.
Mordida! I'll never stop paying
Mordida!


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

dirtbikr - 11-20-2011 at 10:02 AM

I would rather pay mordida than have my insurance rates go up, I wish cops accepted them here!

Barry A. - 11-20-2011 at 10:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dirtbikr
I would rather pay mordida than have my insurance rates go up, I wish cops accepted them here!


You will have to explain that one to me------Insurance vs Mordida??????? apples and oranges, to me.

In 55 years of travel in Mexico I have NEVER paid any "mordida" and wouldn't-------EVER!!!! Those that do appear to me to be part of the problem.

And yes, it that makes me "holier than thou", so be it. :lol:

Barry

dirtbikr - 11-20-2011 at 10:17 AM

What I meant was if I have broken the traffic laws and I have in the past, in that situation I would rather pay a small mordida and make the problem go away there and then, for me the amount has been usually forty bucks or less. Yes, going to the station you pay less but I just want to get on with it and try and find a taco and a cerveza.

DENNIS - 11-20-2011 at 10:23 AM

When things get dull around here, there's nothing like a fiery Mordida thread to heat things up.
It's been a while since we solved the Illegal Immigration dilemma. Not much said about that for a long time. Even the crime issue has quieted down here.
Does all this silence mean things are improving, or are we just getting tired of repeating ourselves? :lol:

DianaT - 11-20-2011 at 10:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Does all this silence mean things are improving, or are we just getting tired of repeating ourselves? :lol:


:lol::lol::lol:

That will never happen!

Barry A. - 11-20-2011 at 10:29 AM

Dennis-------the latter, not the former. It DOES get tiring!!!! :lol:

Dirtbikr---------thanks for your explanation-----that now makes sense to me. But I still don't understand how your citation-status in Mexico is going to effect your insurance in the USA??? Are they that sophisticated in Mexico now??? (for sure they are in the USA, but in Mexico????)

-----and are you talking about Mexican Insurance, or USA insurance?

Barry

capt. mike - 11-20-2011 at 10:57 AM

one and only time.
La PAz airport trying to file out.
1992.
wanted a BS fee cash saying there was something not "right" about my visa.
told him no.

sat in his office 30 minutes staring at each other.

he got bored and said ok, you can go.
problem solved.

bunch of BS.
i ain't paying vice.

Hook - 11-20-2011 at 11:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote:
Originally posted by dirtbikr
I would rather pay mordida than have my insurance rates go up, I wish cops accepted them here!


You will have to explain that one to me------Insurance vs Mordida??????? apples and oranges, to me.

In 55 years of travel in Mexico I have NEVER paid any "mordida" and wouldn't-------EVER!!!! Those that do appear to me to be part of the problem.

And yes, it that makes me "holier than thou", so be it. :lol:

Barry


Dont you mean you never paid mordida, when you USED to go to Mexico? You're still using present tense.

When was the last time you were in Mexico, Barry?

Barry A. - 11-20-2011 at 11:25 AM

Hook---------Actually about 8 months ago I was in Mexicali for dinner, but your point is well taken------last extensive trip "south" was about 5 years ago.

Not sure how that effects my points on mordida, however!?!?!?!:spingrin:

Barry

J.P. - 11-20-2011 at 11:33 AM

Depends on the situation, would rather pay a small amount and avoid the trip to the station. Several times I have paid and demanded something in return. like a police escort through Tj. when I was downtown and lost.:lol::lol::lol:

Bajatripper - 11-20-2011 at 12:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Dennis-------the latter, not the former. It DOES get tiring!!!! :lol:

Dirtbikr---------thanks for your explanation-----that now makes sense to me. But I still don't understand how your citation-status in Mexico is going to effect your insurance in the USA??? Are they that sophisticated in Mexico now??? (for sure they are in the USA, but in Mexico????)

-----and are you talking about Mexican Insurance, or USA insurance?

Barry


If I might be so presumptuous, what Dirtbikr meant in his first post was that he wishes that cops in the US took mordidas so his US insurance rates wouldn't be affected. Correct me if I'm wrong, Dirtbikr.

Barry A. - 11-20-2011 at 12:18 PM

Tripper--------I was afraid that might be the case, and that left me with an intrepidating feeling, for sure. I HOPED that he did not mean that. All we need is more "corruption" in this Country. :no:

Barry

dirtbikr - 11-20-2011 at 12:44 PM

correct, thank you.

Hook - 11-20-2011 at 01:39 PM

Barry, did you ever display your badge or refer to the fact that you were engaged in law enforcement in the States, when dealing with authorities down here?

Once upon a time, I could claim I had never paid a mordida in about 40 years of traveling in Mexico.

Then I moved here...............:yes:

Barry A. - 11-20-2011 at 01:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Barry, did you ever display your badge or refer to the fact that you were engaged in law enforcement in the States, when dealing with authorities down here?

Once upon a time, I could claim I had never paid a mordida in about 40 years of traveling in Mexico.

Then I moved here...............:yes:


NEVER, Hook, never!!! The main reason is that I always believed it would get me in more trouble than it would save me from. I never even took my credentials to Mexico. The Policia were not known to be too friendly to USA Law Enforcement, back then. But, to be totally honest, I seldom in all those years ran into a situation where "mordida" even came up-------maybe 5 to 7 times. I was always very careful in my driving, and was seldom pulled over in all that time, and never for actually breaking the law. The times I was pulled over were obviously shake-downs, and I simply and loudly refused to cooperate even tho it caused some holdups in my time schedule. I was never taken to the station, even tho I offered to do that-------they always just let me go about my business, eventually.

Barry

Bajatripper - 11-20-2011 at 01:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Barry, did you ever display your badge or refer to the fact that you were engaged in law enforcement in the States, when dealing with authorities down here?

Once upon a time, I could claim I had never paid a mordida in about 40 years of traveling in Mexico.

Then I moved here...............:yes:


NEVER, Hook, never!!! The main reason is that I always believed it would get me in more trouble than it would save me from. I never even took my credentials to Mexico. The Policia were not known to be too friendly to USA Law Enforcement, back then. But, to be totally honest, I seldom in all those years ran into a situation where "mordida" even came up-------maybe 5 to 7 times. I was always very careful in my driving, and was seldom pulled over in all that time, and never for actually breaking the law. The times I was pulled over were obviously shake-downs, and I simply and loudly refused to cooperate even tho it caused some holdups in my time schedule. I was never taken to the station, even tho I offered to do that-------they always just let me go about my business, eventually.

Barry

Barry
As you acknowledge, corruption is out there. BUT, in my pay scale, it's way out of my league to participate in its benefits. If we instituted the mordida system in the US, then I, too, could participate instead of paying San Diego County $406 for making an illegal right turn on red coming down into San Isidro. That was one expensive gas stop. :lol:

Barry A. - 11-20-2011 at 02:08 PM

Tripper------The cost of citations in CA is out of control!!!!!!! but, I never had to pay THAT MUCH before. JeeeeZo that is insane!!!!

(and that rediculous "charge" just breeds corruption, you are right)

But as you all are sure to know, don't EVER offer a cop in the USA any mordida--------or it's jail for you!!! and that is just the beginning. :no:

Barry

Woooosh - 11-20-2011 at 03:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dirtbikr
What I meant was if I have broken the traffic laws and I have in the past, in that situation I would rather pay a small mordida and make the problem go away there and then, for me the amount has been usually forty bucks or less. Yes, going to the station you pay less but I just want to get on with it and try and find a taco and a cerveza.

We (not me driving of course) once ran a yellow light in Rosarito and paid $40 to just get back on with our day. Fast, pleasant and easy actually. His family had tacos and beer on us that night.

DENNIS - 11-20-2011 at 03:20 PM

OK....Mordida Question:

From a moral standpoint........which is the most serious of sins; paying mordida for something you DID do, or something you DIDN'T do? One has to carry more weight in the court of "Right and Wrong."

Ateo - 11-20-2011 at 03:20 PM

My wife recently cost us $550 when she ALMOST came to a full stop before making a right turn onto Oceanside Blvd. Red light cameras don't just catch you blowing thru an intersection, they also are setup to make sure you come to a complete stop when making a right turn. She was going about 1/2 mile per hour when she made her turn. $550!!! We were robbed.

As for Baja, haven't paid a fine in 10 years at least. Seems like I used to a lot, but I drive a little more careful these days.

J.P. - 11-20-2011 at 03:29 PM

Theres a cop in San Diego wondering how many years he's going to get for demanding Mordida:lol::lol::lol:

dirtbikr - 11-20-2011 at 03:34 PM

[Edited on 11-20-2011 by dirtbikr]

[Edited on 11-20-2011 by dirtbikr]

[Edited on 11-20-2011 by dirtbikr]

Barry A. - 11-20-2011 at 03:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by J.P.
Theres a cop in San Diego wondering how many years he's going to get for demanding Mordida:lol::lol::lol:


Nahhhhhhhhhhh, never happen.

Barry

Barry A. - 11-20-2011 at 03:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
OK....Mordida Question:

From a moral standpoint........which is the most serious of sins; paying mordida for something you DID do, or something you DIDN'T do? One has to carry more weight in the court of "Right and Wrong."


Morally, "something you did not do". (IMO)

Barry

Pay as you GO

MrBillM - 11-20-2011 at 06:38 PM

The thing about these discussions on Mordida is that they're not going to change Anybody's habits or opinion.

Those who believe in paying (including me) will continue to do so and consider it well-spent.

Dittos for the Don'ts.

As to N.O.B., I HAVE paid the same in the USA.

But, it was (more than once) down South in the '60s.

It's probably gone by now even there. Too Bad ?

Bajafun777 - 11-20-2011 at 08:30 PM

Mexico's mordida is much easier and somewhat more honest than what we practice in California. Cities, Counties and State agencies are looking to clean-up on us citizens to make up for budget cuts of their departments. This is just too bad for us right now, so hopefully everyone is being extra aware out there on the roadways.

WE have a fiscal issue but we spend like crazy on more CHP to get more monies from the people already stressed with costs here. Have nothing against CHP but in Imperial County we only have 6 Sheriff deputies on for the entire County at night, so come on the State traffic officers are way out of line in employment at the moment. I cite this due to seeing over 6 CHP on my way to San Diego before even getting to Golden Acorn Casino and yes more after that. Before anyone asks no I have not had any tickets nor been pulled over. However, I know the court system well from the inside out and it is not pretty with their bloated system feeding off fines and court fees that are totally out of line.

The cities throughout California demand that their officers cite while out on patrol and anybody that does not think an officer without any tickets given before they get off shift don't have a problem with administration is dreaming. I know I will have some officers here argue this but let the truth be said. Time to stop blowing hot air up somewhere it doesn't belong! City managers, County CEOs, State politicians all keep looking to fill their cups from any easy means to which tickets is one of the easiest ways.

Traffic judges salaries come from fines collected just like the Judges salaries come from assested court costs do. So scream this is wrong and untrue but it supplements their kingdom budgets that are excessive to say the least. If people only understood the court costs fees which run hundreds of dollars tacked onto the actual traffic fine, they would be ticked off to say the least. Red light violations have been shown to be corrupt due to companies getting rich off of planning lights changing so quick in order to get people cited. These quick lights helped them to attain more profits due to the increase in tickets. One hand feeds the other unfortunately and as always the people get screwed by the same system that is suppose to work for them.

Yes, Mexico's mordida is wrong but our system in California is so totally wacked, that I too would prefer the lesser of two evils by just paying the least invasive. My reasoning to this would be to make the highway ripoff quicker and we could go on our way quicker. The courts and politicians are also in bed with the insurance companies to make sure that all sides of the B.S. gets their pound of flesh from those being taken advantage of. I think we would all agree that there are some pretty silly traffic violations out there which fills corrupt cups of plenty!! Hard to throw rocks at the cheaper of two evils but then I could be wrong,LOL. Take Care & Travel Safe---"No Hurry, No Worry, Just FUN" bajafun777

A distinction

Dave - 11-20-2011 at 11:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
OK....Mordida Question:

From a moral standpoint........which is the most serious of sins; paying mordida for something you DID do, or something you DIDN'T do? One has to carry more weight in the court of "Right and Wrong."


Mordida is paying for something you did. Extortion is paying for something you didn't.

DENNIS - 11-21-2011 at 06:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Mordida is paying for something you did. Extortion is paying for something you didn't.


A further distinction................I'm referring to the morality of paying. Not receiving.
Doesn't seem likely that a victim would extort himself.


.

[Edited on 11-21-2011 by DENNIS]

DaliDali - 11-21-2011 at 07:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajafun777




The cities throughout California demand that their officers cite while out on patrol and anybody that does not think an officer without any tickets given before they get off shift don't have a problem with administration is dreaming. bajafun777

DaliDali - 11-21-2011 at 07:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajafun777

The cities throughout California demand that their officers cite while out on patrol and anybody that does not think an officer without any tickets given before they get off shift don't have a problem with administration is dreaming. I know I will have some officers here argue this but let the truth be said.

bajafun777




Cities DO not tell their officers to go out a write tickets for violations.
What they do ask of their officers is to DO THEIR JOBS.
Which is obviously to enforce the laws.

In any place other than vast expanses of rural areas, an officer who does not see several violations in an 8 or 10 hour shift either has his eyes closed or is spending way too much time in the doughnut shop.

CHP are TRAFFIC cops and are keyed in on TRAFFIC violators more so than burglars and candy bar thieves. Thus it would be perfectly normal for them to write far more citations than a sheriff or a City patrol officer.

If you personally know of any cities (at least in California) that verbally, or in writing as part of policy, instruct it's officers to go out and write as many citations as they can, you should be prepared to back that up because I call BS to your assertions.

[Edited on 11-21-2011 by DaliDali]

DENNIS - 11-21-2011 at 08:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali

Cities DO not tell their officers to go out a write tickets for violations.
What they do ask of their officers is to DO THEIR JOBS.


You mean to say, the "Quota" reference to traffic law enforcement is all a myth? Probably so...huh.
But, that can't be to say that any given city will not have a tacit level of intensity for which to enforce the law...can it? There has to be a level, a benchmark for law interpretation in the field, and that level is set by administration from overly permissive to Draconian. Otherwise, the cop on the street will be relegated to a roving legal system, without constraints, to punish or forgive as he sees fit at the moment. Freelance law enforcement....so to speak.
Police may not be told to write, write, write, but if they don't to an accepted level, their next writing may be on a job application. His proper roll for his own job security falls somewhere between Barney Fife and Serpico, and that place is unspoken, but well defined.

Now....I'm just talkin' and wonderin' here. No accusations or anything like that so please don't take any offense to my questions. You'll know, without question, when I'm being offensive.

DaliDali - 11-21-2011 at 09:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali

Cities DO not tell their officers to go out a write tickets for violations.
What they do ask of their officers is to DO THEIR JOBS.


You mean to say, the "Quota" reference to traffic law enforcement is all a myth? Probably so...huh.
But, that can't be to say that any given city will not have a tacit level of intensity for which to enforce the law...can it? There has to be a level, a benchmark for law interpretation in the field, and that level is set by administration from overly permissive to Draconian. Otherwise, the cop on the street will be relegated to a roving legal system, without constraints, to punish or forgive as he sees fit at the moment. Freelance law enforcement....so to speak.
Police may not be told to write, write, write, but if they don't to an accepted level, their next writing may be on a job application. His proper roll for his own job security falls somewhere between Barney Fife and Serpico, and that place is unspoken, but well defined.

Now....I'm just talkin' and wonderin' here. No accusations or anything like that so please don't take any offense to my questions. You'll know, without question, when I'm being offensive.


There is NO quota system for writing tickets.

What there is, is a firm requirement that the officers do their jobs. Some supervisors may stress more vigilent enforcement than others but I can guarantee you that no sergeant or lieutenant in charge of a squad of officers is going to utter one word about "Hey Joe, I want to see 5 citations out of you today"

Officer X, who puts in a 40 hour week behind the wheel of a police car "should" be issuing traffic citations as part of his/her job.....it's what they get paid for.
All part of the "protect" slogan....and depending on who your speaking with, not so much the "serve" part.

As stated before, if they are not, why not?..are they timid, lazy, blind or just what is the problem that your not seeing violations when all your other peer officers are?

If that very low enforcement level continues, while others are "up to par" officer X will be counseled as to why.

The MYTH of officers having a "quota" is just that.....a myth.
If you get stopped for doing 85mph on an interstate, when the maximum limit is 70 and you get a citation, surely you don't whine and complain the officer is just meeting his quota?
If you make a right turn in violation of a sign and get a ticket, is that just filling a quota because you think it's chicken sheet?

I could care less about you being offensive and it has nothing to do with how obnoxious you are or are not. Nothing personal for sure Mr Dennis.
Quotas do not exist.....only in the minds of those who tried to beat the law and lost are they a "quota"

DENNIS - 11-21-2011 at 09:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali
If that very low enforcement level continues, while others are "up to par" officer X will be counseled as to why.

The MYTH of officers having a "quota" is just that.....a myth.


I stated that I didn't believe a quota existed, but your contradictory statement above seems to suggest otherwise.
Perhaps it's the word, "Quota", that is confusing the issue. A better term may be, "Proof of Participation." Your term, "Up to Par" is a good one as well.
At any rate, as you pointed out, if at the end of the day a traffic officer doesn't bring home the bacon, so to speak, his efficiency and productivity will be reviewed.

I guess you know what they say about birds that sound like ducks.

Trueheart - 11-21-2011 at 10:13 AM

Paid Mordida once, Rosarita Beach, about 5 years ago. In a van after dinner and c-cktails, jumping around from club to club with family, and accidentally turned down a one way street the wrong way. It was not marked, but once on the street for a block or so, it became obvious to me. Too late, cops spotted me and pulled me over. I had two $20's in my clip for just such an occasion ... one for each cop, or two if just one cop. In this case I was in the wrong, and though I had only one c-cktail at dinner (designated driver) the family was whoopin it up. Their "happy behavior" didn't help my effort. Just wanted to get all of us out of the situation and
back to the hotel. It worked, and I don't intend to repeat the process.

DaliDali - 11-21-2011 at 10:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali
If that very low enforcement level continues, while others are "up to par" officer X will be counseled as to why.

The MYTH of officers having a "quota" is just that.....a myth.


I stated that I didn't believe a quota existed, but your contradictory statement above seems to suggest otherwise.
Perhaps it's the word, "Quota", that is confusing the issue. A better term may be, "Proof of Participation." Your term, "Up to Par" is a good one as well.
At any rate, as you pointed out, if at the end of the day a traffic officer doesn't bring home the bacon, so to speak, his efficiency and productivity will be reviewed.

I guess you know what they say about birds that sound like ducks.


Unfortunately, there is no other way to evaluate officers on the performance of their jobs other than the "numbers" they bring in at the end of the shift.
Good quality "contacts" are what an officers day is made of.
However, no one along the line of authority and up the chain of command, including City civilian officials would EVER advocate, promote or subscribe to a certain quota of enforcement.
To do so, would be suicide if that persons views became public.
There are hoards of public watch dog agencies around that would dearly love to bring down a police captain or a City councilman/woman who dare promote a quota on traffic citations.
Furthermore........

A good officer will be bringing in several "contact" numbers at the end of his/her shift and often, some of those contacts are citations.
The lazy or timid officer will have very few.

Who do you want patrolling your neck of the woods? A drone? A timid officer?
After all, their jobs are to "protect and serve"
If their not turning the numbers, they are not protecting you and the serving goes out the window.

It's just like any other profession....either produce or were going to counsel you on why your not.

Barry A. - 11-21-2011 at 11:02 AM

DaliDali has it EXACTLY right------been there, done that, both in the street and behind a desk. :lol:

Barry

DENNIS - 11-21-2011 at 11:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali
....either produce or were going to counsel you on why your not.



OK....I see your point. Always did, in fact. I'm just one of those "Truth in advertising" types of folks.

Your above statement brought to mind an officer I once had. He had a habit of saying, "I have some questions I want to answer for you." It was always a forewarning of discomfort. :fire:

gnukid - 11-21-2011 at 11:48 AM

Here is a link to a large number of officers admitting there are ticket quotas and pressure from command to give certain types of tickets as well as admissions by officers of planting evidence, stealing evidence and messing with evidence to meet arbitrary quotas.

The denial of this is part of the whole program and a part of the problem, they do it and they publicly deny it, it's a corrupt criminal ring. First step is to be realistic, then deal with the problem which is wide spread corruption.

There are reports by officers about this all over including video and audio recordings of the demands by command.

Here are some more:

http://truthout.org/former-narcotics-detective-admits-drug-p...

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/12/local/la-me-ticket-q...

http://www.globalwinnipeg.com/police+admit+using+traffic+tic...

http://gothamist.com/2011/04/16/white_plains_cop_admits_give...

http://gothamist.com/2010/09/10/new_recordings_leave_no_doub...

Barry A. - 11-21-2011 at 11:54 AM

GnuKid-----------Im my 30 + years in Law Enforcement, both as a street cop in San Diego and a Supervisor in Federal Law Enforcement I have NEVER encountered "quotas", nor have I EVER encountered "evidence planting". Does it happen???------maybe------but never to my knowledge did it happen. Period!!!!!

Barry

J.P. - 11-21-2011 at 12:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
GnuKid-----------Im my 30 + years in Law Enforcement, both as a street cop in San Diego and a Supervisor in Federal Law Enforcement I have NEVER encountered "quotas", nor have I EVER encountered "evidence planting". Does it happen???------maybe------but never to my knowledge did it happen. Period!!!!!







Not doubting the above post When the San Diego P.D. become so Corrupt.:?::?:

Barry

J.P. - 11-21-2011 at 12:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
GnuKid-----------Im my 30 + years in Law Enforcement, both as a street cop in San Diego and a Supervisor in Federal Law Enforcement I have NEVER encountered "quotas", nor have I EVER encountered "evidence planting". Does it happen???------maybe------but never to my knowledge did it happen. Period!!!!!







Not doubting the above post When the San Diego P.D. become so Corrupt.:?::?:

Barry

JoeJustJoe - 11-21-2011 at 12:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ateo
My wife recently cost us $550 when she ALMOST came to a full stop before making a right turn onto Oceanside Blvd. Red light cameras don't just catch you blowing thru an intersection, they also are setup to make sure you come to a complete stop when making a right turn. She was going about 1/2 mile per hour when she made her turn. $550!!! We were robbed.

As for Baja, haven't paid a fine in 10 years at least. Seems like I used to a lot, but I drive a little more careful these days.


I have never paid for one of those red light tickets and either have a lot of people. Many times those red light tickets aren't enforceable or you can beat them pretty easily.

Of course it depends on the kind of letter you get in mail. For example my two kids got red camera tickets, and the letter, aka "snitch ticket" came in the mail to me demanding I pay the outrageous sum of money or I snitch on who was really behind the wheel. The letter comes with an affidavit. They only give you two choices...pay or snitch.

I did neither and just threw the letter in the trash because it wasn't a real ticket from the courts in California. It was a stupid letter from Arizona looking like a letter from the California courts.

I believe cities in LA county got rid of their red light cameras and one of the reasons why they got rid of them is because they really weren't enforceable in court for a number of reasons.( one reason is you never promised to appear in court)

Here is a great link that gives advice how to handle those red light tickets.

http://www.highwayrobbery.net/
________________________________________
Regarding the Mordida. That's a personal thing that you may want to handle in your own way. If you can stand up to the corrupt Mexican cop......that's great. If you can get them to at least lower their asking price...that's great too. Some people might want to give them $20 dollars to make them go away instead of holding out in a game of chicken and sees who breaks first.

I for one never listen to what other forum members tell you about how they handle the "Mordida." Listening to some of these characters you wonder why the corrupt police even bother, because according to these tough guys on the Internet. They always get the corrupt Mexican cop to back off with his tail between his legs.

However, I suspect if these internet tough guys who claim they always stand up to corrupt cops were to ever get stopped by a real Mexican cop. They would probably first pee in their pants, and then hand over a bribe before the Mexican cops said a word.

I rather deal with a ticket in Mexico than deal with traffic tickets in the States that just charge an outrageous amount of money.

[Edited on 11-21-2011 by JoeJustJoe]

Barry A. - 11-21-2011 at 12:47 PM

With all the assumptions that you make, JoeJoe, it's really no wonder that you are so paranoid and strange in your "take" on things. It truly is amazing to me the stuff you come up with, and apparently much of it just comes from inside your mind!??! :O :?:

Barry

sancho - 11-21-2011 at 01:06 PM

I admire people who say they have NEVER paid the
Little Bite. I'm not one of them. Recently read a bit about a driver in Mex
put in the traffic stop situation, he went to the Police Station,
where the fine rose 4 times the amount of the Mordida the Mex Cop was requesting

DENNIS - 11-21-2011 at 01:08 PM

Bad attitude does have it's price.

A Long Time Ago ...................

MrBillM - 11-21-2011 at 01:17 PM

In a Galaxy FAR FAR Away.

Watts in the 60s.

Some "Acquaintances" of mine were taken down to 77th street by LAPD for "Possession" of stolen property leaving me (and a friend) behind. The "property" was never logged into evidence and they were released O.R. the next morning. Charges never filed.

Although I'd known of MANY such instances anecdotally, that was the first (and only) such I was witness to. Those released simply laughed it off as the price of doing business. NO COMPLAINT.

ANYONE who wants to wear their Rose-Colored Glasses regarding Law-Enforcement Larceny is welcome to do so, but they're ignoring an awfully lot of scandals (including Ramparts) where Cops went to the Gray-Bar Hotel for exactly that. A Long-Standing joke in Chicago when a Burglary was found was:

"Call the Cops".

"No Need. They've already been here".

Hey, a guy's gotta make a living.

Hello...what?

mcfez - 11-21-2011 at 02:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali

Cities DO not tell their officers to go out a write tickets for violations.
What they do ask of their officers is to DO THEIR JOBS.


You mean to say, the "Quota" reference to traffic law enforcement is all a myth? Probably so...huh.
But, that can't be to say that any given city will not have a tacit level of intensity for which to enforce the law...can it? There has to be a level, a benchmark for law interpretation in the field, and that level is set by administration from overly permissive to Draconian. Otherwise, the cop on the street will be relegated to a roving legal system, without constraints, to punish or forgive as he sees fit at the moment. Freelance law enforcement....so to speak.
Police may not be told to write, write, write, but if they don't to an accepted level, their next writing may be on a job application. His proper roll for his own job security falls somewhere between Barney Fife and Serpico, and that place is unspoken, but well defined.

Now....I'm just talkin' and wonderin' here. No accusations or anything like that so please don't take any offense to my questions. You'll know, without question, when I'm being offensive.


There is NO quota system for writing tickets.

What there is, is a firm requirement that the officers do their jobs. Some supervisors may stress more vigilent enforcement than others but I can guarantee you that no sergeant or lieutenant in charge of a squad of officers is going to utter one word about "Hey Joe, I want to see 5 citations out of you today"

Officer X, who puts in a 40 hour week behind the wheel of a police car "should" be issuing traffic citations as part of his/her job.....it's what they get paid for.
All part of the "protect" slogan....and depending on who your speaking with, not so much the "serve" part.

As stated before, if they are not, why not?..are they timid, lazy, blind or just what is the problem that your not seeing violations when all your other peer officers are?

If that very low enforcement level continues, while others are "up to par" officer X will be counseled as to why.

The MYTH of officers having a "quota" is just that.....a myth.
If you get stopped for doing 85mph on an interstate, when the maximum limit is 70 and you get a citation, surely you don't whine and complain the officer is just meeting his quota?
If you make a right turn in violation of a sign and get a ticket, is that just filling a quota because you think it's chicken sheet?

I could care less about you being offensive and it has nothing to do with how obnoxious you are or are not. Nothing personal for sure Mr Dennis.
Quotas do not exist.....only in the minds of those who tried to beat the law and lost are they a "quota"


Behind the public..there IS the ol' quota. Mmmmmm, let's see...I was very involved with San Francisco and Sacramento cops....had dinner together...came into my Nightclubs...Hell...we fished together. This conversation came up a few times...and yes...they were told to get the ticket count up.


Here's proof of one city that been doing it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/12/lapd-ticket-quota_n...




[Edited on 11-21-2011 by mcfez]

DaliDali - 11-21-2011 at 05:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali

Cities DO not tell their officers to go out a write tickets for violations.
What they do ask of their officers is to DO THEIR JOBS.


You mean to say, the "Quota" reference to traffic law enforcement is all a myth? Probably so...huh.
But, that can't be to say that any given city will not have a tacit level of intensity for which to enforce the law...can it? There has to be a level, a benchmark for law interpretation in the field, and that level is set by administration from overly permissive to Draconian. Otherwise, the cop on the street will be relegated to a roving legal system, without constraints, to punish or forgive as he sees fit at the moment. Freelance law enforcement....so to speak.
Police may not be told to write, write, write, but if they don't to an accepted level, their next writing may be on a job application. His proper roll for his own job security falls somewhere between Barney Fife and Serpico, and that place is unspoken, but well defined.

Now....I'm just talkin' and wonderin' here. No accusations or anything like that so please don't take any offense to my questions. You'll know, without question, when I'm being offensive.


There is NO quota system for writing tickets.

What there is, is a firm requirement that the officers do their jobs. Some supervisors may stress more vigilent enforcement than others but I can guarantee you that no sergeant or lieutenant in charge of a squad of officers is going to utter one word about "Hey Joe, I want to see 5 citations out of you today"

Officer X, who puts in a 40 hour week behind the wheel of a police car "should" be issuing traffic citations as part of his/her job.....it's what they get paid for.
All part of the "protect" slogan....and depending on who your speaking with, not so much the "serve" part.

As stated before, if they are not, why not?..are they timid, lazy, blind or just what is the problem that your not seeing violations when all your other peer officers are?

If that very low enforcement level continues, while others are "up to par" officer X will be counseled as to why.

The MYTH of officers having a "quota" is just that.....a myth.
If you get stopped for doing 85mph on an interstate, when the maximum limit is 70 and you get a citation, surely you don't whine and complain the officer is just meeting his quota?
If you make a right turn in violation of a sign and get a ticket, is that just filling a quota because you think it's chicken sheet?

I could care less about you being offensive and it has nothing to do with how obnoxious you are or are not. Nothing personal for sure Mr Dennis.
Quotas do not exist.....only in the minds of those who tried to beat the law and lost are they a "quota"


Behind the public..there IS the ol' quota. Mmmmmm, let's see...I was very involved with San Francisco and Sacramento cops....had dinner together...came into my Nightclubs...Hell...we fished together. This conversation came up a few times...and yes...they were told to get the ticket count up.


Here's proof of one city that been doing it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/12/lapd-ticket-quota_n...




[Edited on 11-21-2011 by mcfez]


Writing tickets is part of the job for police officers. It comes with the territory along with arrests, investigations and reporting. A traffic officer and a beat cop, to a lesser degree MUST write citations. I hate to keep beating on this but it is part of the job.
Don't write any and your going to get told "bring up your citation count".
Or write very few in comparison to your other fellow officers and your going to be asked to get your citation count up.
Not only citations but "contacts" in general.
Damn....it's a part of the job!! It's the officers duty to enforce laws. Not look the other way because someone is going to whine and snivel about the fine or insurance consequences or marital bliss.

Bringing up the citation count or contact count is MILES away from being "mandated" to write more.
Did you, in your nightclub business, ever ask your servers to be attentive and push another drink when they noticed a glass half empty?
Push more drinks or we will find someone else who will?
It's a job performance issue...you can't be on the street for 8 or 10 hours and NOT see several violations that should be given a ticket.

If I was a supervisor and one of my officer charges was low on his citations and contacts overall, you bet your axx I am going to counsel him/her to get those contacts up and find out why they are constantly low.
It's my JOB as a supervisor to increase production.
Yes some supervisors might be overzealous to some degree...everyone has a human element and those directions might be misconstrued to mean "quota"

Again.....counseling or suggesting to get the citations or contacts up (a job requirement by the way) is a FAR cry from imposing mandates and demanding the increase of citations as a condition of employment.

Indeed, there may be a few VERY rare instances of supervision or management gone wild and impose what might be construed as a quota.
However, that style of management has gone out the window with the writing of laws that are intended to prevent just that thing.

Bottom line it is VERY rare (in CA) for any municipality or county to have imposed a hard and fast ticket quota.
An officer has to listen to more crap about this and that and why and how come so much......the LAST thing he needs is to be knocked on by someone who "perceives" he is just getting his "quota" when in fact, he/her is just doing the job your paying them to do.

Those who whine the most about quotas are more than likely those who got a citation and felt it was chickensheet and pleaded with the officer to give him/her a break and the officer actually.......did his job!!

J.P. - 11-21-2011 at 05:10 PM

TRAFFIC TICKETS ARE TAXATION BY GUN :fire::fire::fire:

[Edited on 11-22-2011 by J.P.]

El Jefe - 11-21-2011 at 05:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by agrd
This came to me late one night (not, fortunately, that I've had any actual experience with the subject). Feel free to add verses.

Mordida! (to the tune of "Maria" from "West Side Story")

Mordida! I just paid a bribe called mordida,
And suddenly I know
Corruption in Cabo
Is real!

[more verses here]

Mordida! Say it loud and it sounds like braying.
Say it soft while the cop is sashaying.
Mordida! I'll never stop paying
Mordida!


OK, ok but back to these clever lyrics!
Verse # 2;
Mordida, it doesn't cost much for Mordida
And though it really sucks
It's only 30 bucks
A Steal!

And the cop's reprise;

The most beautiful sound I eeeeever heard
Mordiiiiiiiiiiidaaaaaaa!

[Edited on 11-22-2011 by El Jefe]

805gregg - 11-21-2011 at 05:13 PM

One of my wifes retired co-workers moved to Guadalajara, her and her husband lasted only 2 years, she said she got tired of paying bribes. She even had to pay a bribe to hook up the cable TV. How did Mexico go so wrong? And when will they take their country back, from the coruption, and drug lords?

DENNIS - 11-21-2011 at 05:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 805gregg
She even had to pay a bribe to hook up the cable TV.


If you call it a Tip, it's OK.

Bribe = Nasty

Tip = Generous and Good

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

mcfez - 11-21-2011 at 06:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali

Cities DO not tell their officers to go out a write tickets for violations.
What they do ask of their officers is to DO THEIR JOBS.


You mean to say, the "Quota" reference to traffic law enforcement is all a myth? Probably so...huh.
But, that can't be to say that any given city will not have a tacit level of intensity for which to enforce the law...can it? There has to be a level, a benchmark for law interpretation in the field, and that level is set by administration from overly permissive to Draconian. Otherwise, the cop on the street will be relegated to a roving legal system, without constraints, to punish or forgive as he sees fit at the moment. Freelance law enforcement....so to speak.
Police may not be told to write, write, write, but if they don't to an accepted level, their next writing may be on a job application. His proper roll for his own job security falls somewhere between Barney Fife and Serpico, and that place is unspoken, but well defined.

Now....I'm just talkin' and wonderin' here. No accusations or anything like that so please don't take any offense to my questions. You'll know, without question, when I'm being offensive.


There is NO quota system for writing tickets.

What there is, is a firm requirement that the officers do their jobs. Some supervisors may stress more vigilent enforcement than others but I can guarantee you that no sergeant or lieutenant in charge of a squad of officers is going to utter one word about "Hey Joe, I want to see 5 citations out of you today"

Officer X, who puts in a 40 hour week behind the wheel of a police car "should" be issuing traffic citations as part of his/her job.....it's what they get paid for.
All part of the "protect" slogan....and depending on who your speaking with, not so much the "serve" part.

As stated before, if they are not, why not?..are they timid, lazy, blind or just what is the problem that your not seeing violations when all your other peer officers are?

If that very low enforcement level continues, while others are "up to par" officer X will be counseled as to why.

The MYTH of officers having a "quota" is just that.....a myth.
If you get stopped for doing 85mph on an interstate, when the maximum limit is 70 and you get a citation, surely you don't whine and complain the officer is just meeting his quota?
If you make a right turn in violation of a sign and get a ticket, is that just filling a quota because you think it's chicken sheet?

I could care less about you being offensive and it has nothing to do with how obnoxious you are or are not. Nothing personal for sure Mr Dennis.
Quotas do not exist.....only in the minds of those who tried to beat the law and lost are they a "quota"


Behind the public..there IS the ol' quota. Mmmmmm, let's see...I was very involved with San Francisco and Sacramento cops....had dinner together...came into my Nightclubs...Hell...we fished together. This conversation came up a few times...and yes...they were told to get the ticket count up.


Here's proof of one city that been doing it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/12/lapd-ticket-quota_n...




[Edited on 11-21-2011 by mcfez]


Writing tickets is part of the job for police officers. It comes with the territory along with arrests, investigations and reporting. A traffic officer and a beat cop, to a lesser degree MUST write citations. I hate to keep beating on this but it is part of the job.
Don't write any and your going to get told "bring up your citation count".
Or write very few in comparison to your other fellow officers and your going to be asked to get your citation count up.
Not only citations but "contacts" in general.
Damn....it's a part of the job!! It's the officers duty to enforce laws. Not look the other way because someone is going to whine and snivel about the fine or insurance consequences or marital bliss.

Bringing up the citation count or contact count is MILES away from being "mandated" to write more.
Did you, in your nightclub business, ever ask your servers to be attentive and push another drink when they noticed a glass half empty?
Push more drinks or we will find someone else who will?
It's a job performance issue...you can't be on the street for 8 or 10 hours and NOT see several violations that should be given a ticket.

If I was a supervisor and one of my officer charges was low on his citations and contacts overall, you bet your axx I am going to counsel him/her to get those contacts up and find out why they are constantly low.
It's my JOB as a supervisor to increase production.
Yes some supervisors might be overzealous to some degree...everyone has a human element and those directions might be misconstrued to mean "quota"

Again.....counseling or suggesting to get the citations or contacts up (a job requirement by the way) is a FAR cry from imposing mandates and demanding the increase of citations as a condition of employment.

Indeed, there may be a few VERY rare instances of supervision or management gone wild and impose what might be construed as a quota.
However, that style of management has gone out the window with the writing of laws that are intended to prevent just that thing.

Bottom line it is VERY rare (in CA) for any municipality or county to have imposed a hard and fast ticket quota.
An officer has to listen to more crap about this and that and why and how come so much......the LAST thing he needs is to be knocked on by someone who "perceives" he is just getting his "quota" when in fact, he/her is just doing the job your paying them to do.

Those who whine the most about quotas are more than likely those who got a citation and felt it was chickensheet and pleaded with the officer to give him/her a break and the officer actually.......did his job!!


While I do indeed respect your viewpoints given here......
And am glad that you are one of the many decent upholders of the law....

Reality of life is that most cities do indeed have quotas ....perhaps legally define with fancy words....but in many cases just outright.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/10/nyregion/10quotas.html?pag...

DaliDali - 11-21-2011 at 06:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali

Cities DO not tell their officers to go out a write tickets for violations.
What they do ask of their officers is to DO THEIR JOBS.


You mean to say, the "Quota" reference to traffic law enforcement is all a myth? Probably so...huh.
But, that can't be to say that any given city will not have a tacit level of intensity for which to enforce the law...can it? There has to be a level, a benchmark for law interpretation in the field, and that level is set by administration from overly permissive to Draconian. Otherwise, the cop on the street will be relegated to a roving legal system, without constraints, to punish or forgive as he sees fit at the moment. Freelance law enforcement....so to speak.
Police may not be told to write, write, write, but if they don't to an accepted level, their next writing may be on a job application. His proper roll for his own job security falls somewhere between Barney Fife and Serpico, and that place is unspoken, but well defined.

Now....I'm just talkin' and wonderin' here. No accusations or anything like that so please don't take any offense to my questions. You'll know, without question, when I'm being offensive.


There is NO quota system for writing tickets.

What there is, is a firm requirement that the officers do their jobs. Some supervisors may stress more vigilent enforcement than others but I can guarantee you that no sergeant or lieutenant in charge of a squad of officers is going to utter one word about "Hey Joe, I want to see 5 citations out of you today"

Officer X, who puts in a 40 hour week behind the wheel of a police car "should" be issuing traffic citations as part of his/her job.....it's what they get paid for.
All part of the "protect" slogan....and depending on who your speaking with, not so much the "serve" part.

As stated before, if they are not, why not?..are they timid, lazy, blind or just what is the problem that your not seeing violations when all your other peer officers are?

If that very low enforcement level continues, while others are "up to par" officer X will be counseled as to why.

The MYTH of officers having a "quota" is just that.....a myth.
If you get stopped for doing 85mph on an interstate, when the maximum limit is 70 and you get a citation, surely you don't whine and complain the officer is just meeting his quota?
If you make a right turn in violation of a sign and get a ticket, is that just filling a quota because you think it's chicken sheet?

I could care less about you being offensive and it has nothing to do with how obnoxious you are or are not. Nothing personal for sure Mr Dennis.
Quotas do not exist.....only in the minds of those who tried to beat the law and lost are they a "quota"


Behind the public..there IS the ol' quota. Mmmmmm, let's see...I was very involved with San Francisco and Sacramento cops....had dinner together...came into my Nightclubs...Hell...we fished together. This conversation came up a few times...and yes...they were told to get the ticket count up.


Here's proof of one city that been doing it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/12/lapd-ticket-quota_n...




[Edited on 11-21-2011 by mcfez]


Writing tickets is part of the job for police officers. It comes with the territory along with arrests, investigations and reporting. A traffic officer and a beat cop, to a lesser degree MUST write citations. I hate to keep beating on this but it is part of the job.
Don't write any and your going to get told "bring up your citation count".
Or write very few in comparison to your other fellow officers and your going to be asked to get your citation count up.
Not only citations but "contacts" in general.
Damn....it's a part of the job!! It's the officers duty to enforce laws. Not look the other way because someone is going to whine and snivel about the fine or insurance consequences or marital bliss.

Bringing up the citation count or contact count is MILES away from being "mandated" to write more.
Did you, in your nightclub business, ever ask your servers to be attentive and push another drink when they noticed a glass half empty?
Push more drinks or we will find someone else who will?
It's a job performance issue...you can't be on the street for 8 or 10 hours and NOT see several violations that should be given a ticket.

If I was a supervisor and one of my officer charges was low on his citations and contacts overall, you bet your axx I am going to counsel him/her to get those contacts up and find out why they are constantly low.
It's my JOB as a supervisor to increase production.
Yes some supervisors might be overzealous to some degree...everyone has a human element and those directions might be misconstrued to mean "quota"

Again.....counseling or suggesting to get the citations or contacts up (a job requirement by the way) is a FAR cry from imposing mandates and demanding the increase of citations as a condition of employment.

Indeed, there may be a few VERY rare instances of supervision or management gone wild and impose what might be construed as a quota.
However, that style of management has gone out the window with the writing of laws that are intended to prevent just that thing.

Bottom line it is VERY rare (in CA) for any municipality or county to have imposed a hard and fast ticket quota.
An officer has to listen to more crap about this and that and why and how come so much......the LAST thing he needs is to be knocked on by someone who "perceives" he is just getting his "quota" when in fact, he/her is just doing the job your paying them to do.

Those who whine the most about quotas are more than likely those who got a citation and felt it was chickensheet and pleaded with the officer to give him/her a break and the officer actually.......did his job!!


While I do indeed respect your viewpoints given here......
And am glad that you are one of the many decent upholders of the law....

Reality of life is that most cities do indeed have quotas ....perhaps legally define with fancy words....but in many cases just outright.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/10/nyregion/10quotas.html?pag...


No your wrong again.....MOST cities DO NOT have quotas.
That is the reality of life you refuse to acknowledge.
You plucked a couple off cases off the internet and now most all cities have quotas?
Are you stuck in hyperbole?

DENNIS - 11-21-2011 at 07:04 PM

Get rid of that word, "Quota," and perhaps this discussion will move forward.

Barry A. - 11-21-2011 at 07:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Get rid of that word, "Quota," and perhaps this discussion will move forward.


:lol::light::lol::light::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Mengano - 11-21-2011 at 07:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali

Cities DO not tell their officers to go out a write tickets for violations.
What they do ask of their officers is to DO THEIR JOBS.


You mean to say, the "Quota" reference to traffic law enforcement is all a myth? Probably so...huh.
But, that can't be to say that any given city will not have a tacit level of intensity for which to enforce the law...can it? There has to be a level, a benchmark for law interpretation in the field, and that level is set by administration from overly permissive to Draconian. Otherwise, the cop on the street will be relegated to a roving legal system, without constraints, to punish or forgive as he sees fit at the moment. Freelance law enforcement....so to speak.
Police may not be told to write, write, write, but if they don't to an accepted level, their next writing may be on a job application. His proper roll for his own job security falls somewhere between Barney Fife and Serpico, and that place is unspoken, but well defined.

Now....I'm just talkin' and wonderin' here. No accusations or anything like that so please don't take any offense to my questions. You'll know, without question, when I'm being offensive.


There is NO quota system for writing tickets.

What there is, is a firm requirement that the officers do their jobs. Some supervisors may stress more vigilent enforcement than others but I can guarantee you that no sergeant or lieutenant in charge of a squad of officers is going to utter one word about "Hey Joe, I want to see 5 citations out of you today"

Officer X, who puts in a 40 hour week behind the wheel of a police car "should" be issuing traffic citations as part of his/her job.....it's what they get paid for.
All part of the "protect" slogan....and depending on who your speaking with, not so much the "serve" part.

As stated before, if they are not, why not?..are they timid, lazy, blind or just what is the problem that your not seeing violations when all your other peer officers are?

If that very low enforcement level continues, while others are "up to par" officer X will be counseled as to why.

The MYTH of officers having a "quota" is just that.....a myth.
If you get stopped for doing 85mph on an interstate, when the maximum limit is 70 and you get a citation, surely you don't whine and complain the officer is just meeting his quota?
If you make a right turn in violation of a sign and get a ticket, is that just filling a quota because you think it's chicken sheet?

I could care less about you being offensive and it has nothing to do with how obnoxious you are or are not. Nothing personal for sure Mr Dennis.
Quotas do not exist.....only in the minds of those who tried to beat the law and lost are they a "quota"


Behind the public..there IS the ol' quota. Mmmmmm, let's see...I was very involved with San Francisco and Sacramento cops....had dinner together...came into my Nightclubs...Hell...we fished together. This conversation came up a few times...and yes...they were told to get the ticket count up.


Here's proof of one city that been doing it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/12/lapd-ticket-quota_n...




[Edited on 11-21-2011 by mcfez]


Writing tickets is part of the job for police officers. It comes with the territory along with arrests, investigations and reporting. A traffic officer and a beat cop, to a lesser degree MUST write citations. I hate to keep beating on this but it is part of the job.
Don't write any and your going to get told "bring up your citation count".
Or write very few in comparison to your other fellow officers and your going to be asked to get your citation count up.
Not only citations but "contacts" in general.
Damn....it's a part of the job!! It's the officers duty to enforce laws. Not look the other way because someone is going to whine and snivel about the fine or insurance consequences or marital bliss.

Bringing up the citation count or contact count is MILES away from being "mandated" to write more.
Did you, in your nightclub business, ever ask your servers to be attentive and push another drink when they noticed a glass half empty?
Push more drinks or we will find someone else who will?
It's a job performance issue...you can't be on the street for 8 or 10 hours and NOT see several violations that should be given a ticket.

If I was a supervisor and one of my officer charges was low on his citations and contacts overall, you bet your axx I am going to counsel him/her to get those contacts up and find out why they are constantly low.
It's my JOB as a supervisor to increase production.
Yes some supervisors might be overzealous to some degree...everyone has a human element and those directions might be misconstrued to mean "quota"

Again.....counseling or suggesting to get the citations or contacts up (a job requirement by the way) is a FAR cry from imposing mandates and demanding the increase of citations as a condition of employment.

Indeed, there may be a few VERY rare instances of supervision or management gone wild and impose what might be construed as a quota.
However, that style of management has gone out the window with the writing of laws that are intended to prevent just that thing.

Bottom line it is VERY rare (in CA) for any municipality or county to have imposed a hard and fast ticket quota.
An officer has to listen to more crap about this and that and why and how come so much......the LAST thing he needs is to be knocked on by someone who "perceives" he is just getting his "quota" when in fact, he/her is just doing the job your paying them to do.

Those who whine the most about quotas are more than likely those who got a citation and felt it was chickensheet and pleaded with the officer to give him/her a break and the officer actually.......did his job!!


While I do indeed respect your viewpoints given here......
And am glad that you are one of the many decent upholders of the law....

Reality of life is that most cities do indeed have quotas ....perhaps legally define with fancy words....but in many cases just outright.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/10/nyregion/10quotas.html?pag...



Quota Counseling

MrBillM - 11-21-2011 at 09:08 PM

Not too many years back, visiting in Florida, there was a newspaper article regarding the small-town Police-Chiefs in Florida and Georgia whose pay was (partially ?) funded by a percentage of Fines levied. It was noted that MANY were EXTREMELY well-paid.

Think THOSE Deputies had a Quota-system ? Or, were simply "counseled" to do their jobs well ?

BTW, driving the rural roads down there, it's incredible how often the Speed Limit changes SUDDENLY from 50-60 to 15-20 for "seemingly" no reason well in advance of entering the Business/Residential district.

THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW

mcfez - 11-21-2011 at 09:23 PM

You said this:

There is NO quota system for writing tickets.

What there is, is a firm requirement that the officers do their jobs. Some supervisors may stress more vigilent enforcement than others but I can guarantee you that no sergeant or lieutenant in charge of a squad of officers is going to utter one word about "Hey Joe, I want to see 5 citations out of you today"

________________________________________________

Good Gods man...you declared this isn't happening....yet it is blasted through out the nation's newspapers that it IS indeed happening. Get updated on the current events.

I seriously doubt that you have first hand knowledge of what's happening in every city concerning this ON GOING issue.....dont take my word...and I'll certainly wont take your foolish wishful statement above ......it's clear as day with all the reports that this is happening. Perhaps you are Sheriff Andrew "Andy" Jackson Taylor with the Mayberry Police Department....where all is good and evil does not exist. Ah...yes...and those chicken dinners on Sundays with the family.

Next I suppose you be telling us that... the Rampart scandal concerning the CRASH program was bogus.

70 cops implicated. ....and folks just like you...... said this sort of thing just NEVER happens ...........then that exploded in the newspapers (oh...and off the internet) :lol:


Is your name Capt. Dolt?

andy.jpg - 15kB

Barry A. - 11-21-2011 at 10:23 PM

For what it is worth (again) I will repeat, ad infinitum, in my 30+ years of Law Enforcement all over this Nation I NEVER saw any examples of a "quota" being pushed or implimented-----period.

I was a city cop, a County Sheriff Deputy, and a Federal Officer, both in the field and as a supervisor.

You all believe what you want to believe.

Barry

mcfez - 11-21-2011 at 11:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
For what it is worth (again) I will repeat, ad infinitum, in my 30+ years of Law Enforcement all over this Nation I NEVER saw any examples of a "quota" being pushed or implimented-----period.

I was a city cop, a County Sheriff Deputy, and a Federal Officer, both in the field and as a supervisor.

You all believe what you want to believe.

Barry


Sure Barry....
I assume that since you live in Redding ....you work with the R.P.D. Funny.....that there major issues coming out of the R.P.D. about abuse.....false charges ...... police misconduct ...... entrapment....and most likely speeding ticket quotas.

Fact is ...it's so bad up there...a Blogg is in effect (oh geese...from the web that anyone can attain from).

http://policingthepoliceofreddingca.blogspot.com/

"I know there is plenty of people out there in the Redding area who have been victims of the R.P.D. Redding Police Dept. Or The Shasta County Sheriff. We Desperately need your help! If you feel the Police were wrong in how the R.P.D. Or Shasta County Sheriff treated you, Or If you or someone you love or know was arrested and had False Charges , Police Misconduct or Entrapment by these "peace" officers"


Good job Barry. Good job. Now....why dont you go fill some quotas.


Hard to believe that you would profess to being a cop over the internet...............my friends and family member would never do a foolish thing like that. Sure you are a law enforcement agent?

[Edited on 11-22-2011 by mcfez]

Barry A. - 11-21-2011 at 11:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
For what it is worth (again) I will repeat, ad infinitum, in my 30+ years of Law Enforcement all over this Nation I NEVER saw any examples of a "quota" being pushed or implimented-----period.

I was a city cop, a County Sheriff Deputy, and a Federal Officer, both in the field and as a supervisor.

You all believe what you want to believe.

Barry


Sure Barry....
I assume that since you live in Redding ....you work with the R.P.D. Funny.....that there major issues coming out of the R.P.D. about abuse.....false charges ...... police misconduct ...... entrapment....and most likely speeding ticket quotas.

Fact is ...it's so bad up there...a Blogg is in effect (oh geese...from the web that anyone can attain from).

http://policingthepoliceofreddingca.blogspot.com/

"I know there is plenty of people out there in the Redding area who have been victims of the R.P.D. Redding Police Dept. Or The Shasta County Sheriff. We Desperately need your help! If you feel the Police were wrong in how the R.P.D. Or Shasta County Sheriff treated you, Or If you or someone you love or know was arrested and had False Charges , Police Misconduct or Entrapment by these "peace" officers"


Good job Barry. Good job. Now....why dont you go fill some quotas.


Hard to believe that you would profess to being a cop over the internet...............my friends and family member would never do a foolish thing like that. Sure you are a law enforcement agent?

[Edited on 11-22-2011 by mcfez]


:lol::lol::lol::lol: Never with Redding, and I know nothing about them. Retired for 15 years from the Feds, so not current-----just stating my previous experience.

Barry

mcfez - 11-21-2011 at 11:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
For what it is worth (again) I will repeat, ad infinitum, in my 30+ years of Law Enforcement all over this Nation I NEVER saw any examples of a "quota" being pushed or implimented-----period.

I was a city cop, a County Sheriff Deputy, and a Federal Officer, both in the field and as a supervisor.

You all believe what you want to believe.

Barry


Sure Barry....
I assume that since you live in Redding ....you work with the R.P.D. Funny.....that there major issues coming out of the R.P.D. about abuse.....false charges ...... police misconduct ...... entrapment....and most likely speeding ticket quotas.

Fact is ...it's so bad up there...a Blogg is in effect (oh geese...from the web that anyone can attain from).

http://policingthepoliceofreddingca.blogspot.com/

"I know there is plenty of people out there in the Redding area who have been victims of the R.P.D. Redding Police Dept. Or The Shasta County Sheriff. We Desperately need your help! If you feel the Police were wrong in how the R.P.D. Or Shasta County Sheriff treated you, Or If you or someone you love or know was arrested and had False Charges , Police Misconduct or Entrapment by these "peace" officers"


Good job Barry. Good job. Now....why dont you go fill some quotas.


Hard to believe that you would profess to being a cop over the internet...............my friends and family member would never do a foolish thing like that. Sure you are a law enforcement agent?

[Edited on 11-22-2011 by mcfez]


:lol::lol::lol::lol: Never with Redding, and I know nothing about them. Retired for 15 years from the Feds, so not current-----just stating my previous experience.

Barry


Retired for 15 years !!!!!!!!
Oh Gods.......I rest my case.

You haven't been inside of a police department for well over...... 30 years. That tells me one thing...you really dont have a real clue about current policy!


Go back 15 years ...you served the Feds ...what...10-15 years?
So that makes it that you were a city cop 30 some odd years ago! Yeah Barry....you got current information

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Edited on 11-22-2011 by mcfez]

DaliDali - 11-22-2011 at 05:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
You said this:

There is NO quota system for writing tickets.

What there is, is a firm requirement that the officers do their jobs. Some supervisors may stress more vigilent enforcement than others but I can guarantee you that no sergeant or lieutenant in charge of a squad of officers is going to utter one word about "Hey Joe, I want to see 5 citations out of you today"

________________________________________________

Good Gods man...you declared this isn't happening....yet it is blasted through out the nation's newspapers that it IS indeed happening. Get updated on the current events.

I seriously doubt that you have first hand knowledge of what's happening in every city concerning this ON GOING issue.....dont take my word...and I'll certainly wont take your foolish wishful statement above ......it's clear as day with all the reports that this is happening. Perhaps you are Sheriff Andrew "Andy" Jackson Taylor with the Mayberry Police Department....where all is good and evil does not exist. Ah...yes...and those chicken dinners on Sundays with the family.

Next I suppose you be telling us that... the Rampart scandal concerning the CRASH program was bogus.

70 cops implicated. ....and folks just like you...... said this sort of thing just NEVER happens ...........then that exploded in the newspapers (oh...and off the internet) :lol:


Is your name Capt. Dolt?



Remember now, were talking about "quotas" and not other forms of malfeasance.

And you cite two isolated incidents and now it's "blasted thought out the nations newspapers"...which is hyperbole in the extreme.

And furthermore, when you personally berate someone, resort to calling them names and belittle them......you LOST the battle dude.
Heck it might even be a violations of the terms of use on here.
You should check on that.

Have a better go next time.

Oh Gosh McFez.....you belittle them

mcfez - 11-22-2011 at 08:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaliDali
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
You said this:

There is NO quota system for writing tickets.

What there is, is a firm requirement that the officers do their jobs. Some supervisors may stress more vigilent enforcement than others but I can guarantee you that no sergeant or lieutenant in charge of a squad of officers is going to utter one word about "Hey Joe, I want to see 5 citations out of you today"

________________________________________________

Good Gods man...you declared this isn't happening....yet it is blasted through out the nation's newspapers that it IS indeed happening. Get updated on the current events.

I seriously doubt that you have first hand knowledge of what's happening in every city concerning this ON GOING issue.....dont take my word...and I'll certainly wont take your foolish wishful statement above ......it's clear as day with all the reports that this is happening. Perhaps you are Sheriff Andrew "Andy" Jackson Taylor with the Mayberry Police Department....where all is good and evil does not exist. Ah...yes...and those chicken dinners on Sundays with the family.

Next I suppose you be telling us that... the Rampart scandal concerning the CRASH program was bogus.

70 cops implicated. ....and folks just like you...... said this sort of thing just NEVER happens ...........then that exploded in the newspapers (oh...and off the internet) :lol:


Is your name Capt. Dolt?



Remember now, were talking about "quotas" and not other forms of malfeasance.

And you cite two isolated incidents and now it's "blasted thought out the nations newspapers"...which is hyperbole in the extreme.

And furthermore, when you personally berate someone, resort to calling them names and belittle them......you LOST the battle dude.
Heck it might even be a violations of the terms of use on here.
You should check on that.

Have a better go next time.


No your wrong again.....MOST cities DO NOT have quotas.
That is the reality of life you refuse to acknowledge.
You plucked a couple off cases off the internet and now most all cities have quotas?
Are you stuck in hyperbole?

I am wrong "again"? Wow...you are putting me down as though I am never correct..I feel so belittled by you. "Are you stuck in hyperbole"....geese...so you are making a statement that I am clueless....you belittled me.

Oh oh ...it's a Jr Nomad that never belittles anyone here :P
For a Jr that has less than 25 postings (mostly just replies)....you are going to lecture me about the "the terms of use" and the why I go about speaking my mind here at the BN forums? Oh geeze little man...get a real life.

The use of "plucked a couple off cases off the internet" for my viewpoint......well....would you prefer for me to just copy ALL of the 1000's of cases and paste them here for your fine reading?

I never resort to name calling....Barney.

DENNIS - 11-22-2011 at 08:41 AM

I thought I posted this last night, but must have failed to hit the "POST" button.
Anyway....perhaps, if you guys quit using the word "quota", this discussion might move forward. It seems to be a sticking point. Maybe try to call it something else because I think you may be in agreeance on a lot of things until that rigid, inflexible term enters the picture.

"Can't we all just get along?" :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Gawwwwdammmm...I'm funny as hell this morning. Crack myself up. "Get along"...:lol::lol::lol::lol:

OK....Carry on.

mcfez - 11-22-2011 at 09:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
I thought I posted this last night, but must have failed to hit the "POST" button.
Anyway....perhaps, if you guys quit using the word "quota", this discussion might move forward. It seems to be a sticking point. Maybe try to call it something else because I think you may be in agreeance on a lot of things until that rigid, inflexible term enters the picture.

"Can't we all just get along?" :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Gawwwwdammmm...I'm funny as hell this morning. Crack myself up. "Get along"...:lol::lol::lol::lol:

OK....Carry on.


Good Morning DENNIS!

I get along with ALL here :-) You do too :-) Hell...we should be a team :o

Yeah...I'm done.

Oddjob - 11-22-2011 at 09:35 AM

Quote:
Good Morning DENNIS!

I get along with ALL here :-) You do too :-) Hell...we should be a team :o

Yeah...I'm done.



"Thanks Gods" This was getting way out there.

DENNIS - 11-22-2011 at 09:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
I get along with ALL here :-) You do too :-) Hell...we should be a team :o

Yeah...I'm done.


We ARE a team, Deno. Hell.....don't quit now. :biggrin:

Mexicali_Kid - 11-22-2011 at 11:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote:
Originally posted by dirtbikr
I would rather pay mordida than have my insurance rates go up, I wish cops accepted them here!


You will have to explain that one to me------Insurance vs Mordida??????? apples and oranges, to me.

In 55 years of travel in Mexico I have NEVER paid any "mordida" and wouldn't-------EVER!!!! Those that do appear to me to be part of the problem.

And yes, it that makes me "holier than thou", so be it. :lol:

Barry


I am with you Barry. I haven't paid a bribe in fifteen years. I'm not a very good driver and I have been pulled over many of times for legit reasons for things like running a stop sign, talking on my cell phone while driving, etc. Usually they give me a warning, sometimes I go to the headquarters and pay a fine. Running a red light is 100 pesos and I get a receipt.

If you pay bribes you only need to look in the mirror to find the problem.

Barry A. - 11-22-2011 at 11:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
For what it is worth (again) I will repeat, ad infinitum, in my 30+ years of Law Enforcement all over this Nation I NEVER saw any examples of a "quota" being pushed or implimented-----period.

I was a city cop, a County Sheriff Deputy, and a Federal Officer, both in the field and as a supervisor.

You all believe what you want to believe.

Barry


Sure Barry....
I assume that since you live in Redding ....you work with the R.P.D. Funny.....that there major issues coming out of the R.P.D. about abuse.....false charges ...... police misconduct ...... entrapment....and most likely speeding ticket quotas.

Fact is ...it's so bad up there...a Blogg is in effect (oh geese...from the web that anyone can attain from).

http://policingthepoliceofreddingca.blogspot.com/

"I know there is plenty of people out there in the Redding area who have been victims of the R.P.D. Redding Police Dept. Or The Shasta County Sheriff. We Desperately need your help! If you feel the Police were wrong in how the R.P.D. Or Shasta County Sheriff treated you, Or If you or someone you love or know was arrested and had False Charges , Police Misconduct or Entrapment by these "peace" officers"


Good job Barry. Good job. Now....why dont you go fill some quotas.


Hard to believe that you would profess to being a cop over the internet...............my friends and family member would never do a foolish thing like that. Sure you are a law enforcement agent?

[Edited on 11-22-2011 by mcfez]


:lol::lol::lol::lol: Never with Redding, and I know nothing about them. Retired for 15 years from the Feds, so not current-----just stating my previous experience.

Barry


Retired for 15 years !!!!!!!!
Oh Gods.......I rest my case.

You haven't been inside of a police department for well over...... 30 years. That tells me one thing...you really dont have a real clue about current policy!


Go back 15 years ...you served the Feds ...what...10-15 years?
So that makes it that you were a city cop 30 some odd years ago! Yeah Barry....you got current information

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Edited on 11-22-2011 by mcfez]


Ahhhh, errrrr, Fez------go back and read my posts------I NEVER said anything about "current" policy. I simply was stating MY EXPERIENCES while in Law Enforcement. You never asked "when" that happened, but I thought I was pretty clear about that.

All the assumptions some people make always puzzle me-------but they are pretty funny, too. :lol:

Carry on!!! :tumble:

Barry

bajaguy - 11-22-2011 at 11:26 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.


You all believe what you want to believe.

Barry


Sure Barry....
I assume that since you live in Redding ....you work with the R.P.D. Funny.....that there major issues coming out of the R.P.D. about abuse.....false charges ...... police misconduct ...... entrapment....and most likely speeding ticket quotas.

Fact is ...it's so bad up there...a Blogg is in effect (oh geese...from the web that anyone can attain from).

http://policingthepoliceofreddingca.blogspot.com/

"I know there is plenty of people out there in the Redding area who have been victims of the R.P.D. Redding Police Dept. Or The Shasta County Sheriff. We Desperately need your help! If you feel the Police were wrong in how the R.P.D. Or Shasta County Sheriff treated you, Or If you or someone you love or know was arrested and had False Charges , Police Misconduct or Entrapment by these "peace" officers"


Good job Barry. Good job. Now....why dont you go fill some quotas.


Hard to believe that you would profess to being a cop over the internet...............my friends and family member would never do a foolish thing like that. Sure you are a law enforcement agent?

[Edited on 11-22-2011 by mcfez]


:lol::lol::lol::lol: Never with Redding, and I know nothing about them. Retired for 15 years from the Feds, so not current-----just stating my previous experience.

Barry


Ahhhh, errrrr, Fez------go back and read my posts------I NEVER said anything about "current" policy. I simply was stating MY EXPERIENCES while in Law Enforcement. You never asked "when" that happened, but I thought I was pretty clear about that.

All the assumptions some people make always puzzle me-------but they are pretty funny, too. :lol:

Carry on!!! :tumble:

Barry





Barry........it's like trying to talk to a cat.....all they hear is blah, blah, blah.......interesting how all of these law enforcement policy and procedure experts have the training, education and experience to know what they are talking about....real "expert witnesses".......

When I was a young trooper, we were told we never had a ticket quota....we could write as many as we wanted!! :lol:

sancho - 11-22-2011 at 11:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Gawwwwdammmm...I'm funny as hell this morning.




D, Your're reading your own material? I'm with Mcfez,
he's making an observation, the other guy is trying
to defend his bias position, which he is INVESTED in,
Msfez doesn't have a stake or MOTIVE

mcfez - 11-22-2011 at 12:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.


Ahhhh, errrrr, Fez------go back and read my posts------I NEVER said anything about "current" policy. I simply was stating MY EXPERIENCES while in Law Enforcement. You never asked "when" that happened, but I thought I was pretty clear about that.

All the assumptions some people make always puzzle me-------but they are pretty funny, too. :lol:

Carry on!!! :tumble:

Barry


Barry A.
Elite Nomad

posted on 11-21-2011 at 06:54 PM

GnuKid-----------Im my 30 + years in Law Enforcement, both as a street cop in San Diego and a Supervisor in Federal Law Enforcement I have NEVER encountered "quotas", nor have I EVER encountered "evidence planting". D Does it happen???------maybe-----but never to my knowledge did it happen. Period!!!!!

Sure Barney...er Barry
First off....you say quotas dont happen.....then you say maybe it does....but not on YOUR watch :lol: I find that your statements are defensive.....passing the buck.....blind eye............ to the circus of any police organization. To say you never heard the "wrongs" of the internal police department doings...in 30 years worth of service...is bogus. Feed us here some stories that actually might make sense.....like that UFO landing in Redding ......to steal cows from that pasture. Oh Moooooo!

You use of the words "I used to be a cop".....
It read as thought you were with the Police Department....till recently retired. Well...in reality to your much latter statements here in this post..."I was a Fed 15 years ago....(so you worked there for what...15+ years?).....then I was a Sheriff (what...another 5+ years....FBI hires Sheriff s preferable)....so that makes it that you were doing a city beat some 35 plus years ago! Yeah Barney....deception...just like they do.....giving orders to write more tickets.

I'm done here....or thought I was. If you wish to carry this out in Off Topics...I be more than happy to go there with you.

Bajaguy....it's like trying to talk to a cat.....all they hear is blah, blah, blah..

Well.....it's really like this:....talking to some old dog.....all they do is bark bark bark when there's nothing there :-)

[Edited on 11-22-2011 by mcfez]

Barry A. - 11-22-2011 at 01:24 PM

McFez----------most of what you write in the above 'post' I don't think I understand---------and again you are making many wrong assumptions.

Once more, let me try to be clear:

(1) In my experience while in LE I never encountered "quotas".

(2) I have been retired from Federal LE for almost 16 years.

(3) I was in Federal LE for 29 years. (late '67 to '96)

(4) I was briefly with the Riverside County Sheriff's Academy as both a student and instructor in 1975 (while a Fed officer)

(5) I was a city cop with the City of San Diego in 1960 for about a year, and then transferred into Federal Law Enforcement in 1967.

IN ALL THAT TIME I NEVER ENCOUNTERED "QUOTAS"-----PERIOD.

Barry

DENNIS - 11-22-2011 at 01:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
IN ALL THAT TIME I NEVER ENCOUNTERED "QUOTAS"-----PERIOD.

Barry


There's that word again. I guess everyone wants to use it, so I make a suggestion; there are quotas, but they just don't have a specific number.
It will, however, be revealed should some donut muncher fall short of it.
DaliDali put it this way: "It's just like any other profession....either produce or were going to counsel you on why your not."

Barry A. - 11-22-2011 at 02:11 PM

Right on, Dennis!!!! and, somewhere back in this thread I 100% agreed with DaliDali.

I do not understand what McFez is upset about--------it seems so simple to me. Cops are expected to write tickets as part of their job, but nobody IN MY EXPERIENCE every said "how many" they are supposed to write. End of story.

A San Diego Police Sargeant once did tell me that street patrol traffice cops in San Diego at that time averaged about "3.5 citations each 8 hours shift"-----------but I certainly never took that as a "quota"------it was simply a statistic, used for evaluating how an officer was doing relative to their peers. Perhaps it is all in the interpretation.

Barry

baja1943 - 11-22-2011 at 02:34 PM

Thanks McSnitch, I needed that!

Barry A. - 11-22-2011 at 02:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
Barry....your statements are more in line with Britney Spears statements.

"I get to go to lots of overseas places, like Canada."
- Britney Spears, Pop Singer




[Edited on 11-22-2011 by mcfez]


?????????????? Once again, you lose me, McFez. What ARE you talking about???

Barry

We should let this die..have the last word Barry

mcfez - 11-22-2011 at 02:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
McFez----------most of what you write in the above 'post' I don't think I understand---------and again you are making many wrong assumptions.

Once more, let me try to be clear:

(1) In my experience while in LE I never encountered "quotas".

(2) I have been retired from Federal LE for almost 16 years.

(3) I was in Federal LE for 29 years. (late '67 to '96)

(4) I was briefly with the Riverside County Sheriff's Academy as both a student and instructor in 1975 (while a Fed officer)

(5) I was a city cop with the City of San Diego in 1960 for about a year, and then transferred into Federal Law Enforcement in 1967.

IN ALL THAT TIME I NEVER ENCOUNTERED "QUOTAS"-----PERIOD.

Barry


So you really were in a police department that handed out speeding tickets 44 YEARS AGO. Worked there for only a year. This is where you get "I never encountered quotas".......?

No wonder you are confused with the real facts of "quotas"....I doubt that you as a Fed.....as most Feds...don't carry that ol ticket book...therefor...why would a discussion of quotas be on the morning agenda at the roll call? That's why you never heard about quotas!


Perhaps you see the clear perception you have proclaimed...how can you make such statements when you where not involved with giving out tickets? We aint talking about stuff that happened 44 years ago Barry...we are talking about CURRENT EVENTS.


Barry....your statements are more in line with Britney Spears statements. (dont make sense)

"I get to go to lots of overseas places, like Canada."
- Britney Spears, Pop Singer

Take this to OT Barry ?




[Edited on 11-22-2011 by mcfez]

Barry A. - 11-22-2011 at 03:27 PM

Yes, it is now over in OT (why, I am not sure) :rolleyes:

Barry

mcfez - 11-22-2011 at 03:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Yes, it is now over in OT (why, I am not sure) :rolleyes:

Barry


Good...where it belongs. Will be there later tonight.

However....I will say this to you Barry....I take my hat off for folks such as you, serving the people. It takes guts to deal with all the low life and crazies.....putting your life in danger each and every day. If you were here at the moment...I'd invite you over to have a farm dinner with my family.

Bajafun777 - 11-23-2011 at 03:59 PM

OK, role call and during role call the monthly stats on tickets given is discussed with pointing out that this count means average is 5 tickets a day. Is that a quota, Hmmmm, no that is, "Just The Facts Mama Just The Facts,LOL." Evaluations will be reflective to those not meeting the ideal norm for the average tickets issued you can bet on that. However, again that is not a "quota," yea right!!

Don't take it personal DaliDali, that is just the way it is. Just like the "little bite" is just the the way it is in Mexico. Not saying all cities do this but damn near all do it because it generates monies in their budget to get other favors from city managers or CEOs of Counties.

DaliDali, you are not the only one that has worked in law enforcement nor are you the only one that understands the word games that occur in law enforcement. I did not say it was crooked unless it involves those officers that see more as better, regardless of how they achieve those numbers. Hopefully, you will not defend that there were officers with "I call them as I see them approach," then start laughing as they walked away after issuing a ticket. As a supervisor, you may try to correct this but you have to see it to call them on it. Like some may say all people that receive tickets always complain about it, right? Just face it tickets are a hot money item for departments, nothing to get upset about.

We had one city that unfortunately had a memo that got them a little heat in the local newspaper about quotas and yes it was in a memo to officers no less. That administration quickly had training for their supervisors on how to write memos and how to avoid being in trouble for having quotas. Let's not even get into speed traps,LOL.

DaliDali, you are definately correct that an officer's evaluation will be reflective of his actions or nonaction that occurs while on patrol,LOL. Again, the average number of contacts that should be occurring on each shift is not a quota, LOL. OK, just something unreal in that thinking but what the heck, since "it is what it is." Take Care & Travel Safe---- "No Hurry, No Worry, Just FUN" bajafun777

ElCazadorAZ - 11-23-2011 at 06:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Quote:
Originally posted by dirtbikr
Fast, pleasant and easy actually. His family had tacos and beer on us that night.


I'm with you. H.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=56438

Paladin - 12-1-2011 at 08:59 PM

Quotas??

My Dad was a Warden for the California Department of Fish and Game for 30 years.
Before that 3 years with San Jose PD
Before that 1 year with Los Gatos PD
He was also a good friend of mine.

Never did he have a quota...quota is a bad word

Every month the Wardens got a monthly "pinch" list.
Bottom third caught hell
Bottom third did not make their "performance standard"

Come on folks..lets not BS a BS'er

My Dad always had a quota.....

My Dad never ever violated search and seizure laws either.

Har Har:tumble::tumble:

J.P. - 12-2-2011 at 07:22 PM

Quote:
Come on folks..lets not BS a BS'er

My Dad always had a quota.....

My Dad never ever violated search and seizure laws either.

Har Har:tumble::tumble:






WARDENS dont need no STINKING WARRANT if they suspect you have illegal game.:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: