BajaNomad

Anti-Mexico gang keeps growing

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JESSE - 11-22-2011 at 06:11 PM

Is it me or little by little the anti-mexico gang is growing on the board? it seems we have a bunch of people with way too much time in their hands, who basically spend most of their day stuck i front of the monitor, either creating negative posts, or responding to other posts about mexico, using negativity as a way to vent their personal problems with mexico or mexicans. Some of these wackos, don't even live here at all, and rarely visit the country. They just come here as a way of gettin back at mexico for a failed relationship, business, etc etc

This anti-mexico crowd, complaints mostly about growing crime in baja and goverment corruption. They feed on the current drug war that my country is experiencing to validate their attacks against mexico and mexicans. But they conveniently ignore some important facts about baja.

1-Theres always been corruption here, and trust me, 10yrs ago corruption was far worse. Things are not perfect here, we have a long way to go, but the fact of the matter is that corruption is down from the levels we had many years ago. What has increased by leaps and bounds in the last 10 yrs, is the number of people living here. As well as commuications, now everybody is connected to the internet, and everything that happens anywhere in baja is known in a matter of minutes. If you are not prepared to live with this reality of baja, its simple. Don't live here.

2-Mexico has been living a nightmare in the past few years because of the current drugwar. 30,000+ people have died because of this, many of them innocent civilians, and well as courageous police and military who where not corrupt and gave their lives so we could all live more safe. The mexico bashing gang would like you to believe everything and everyone in Mexico is corrupt, and this is a total and shameless lie. There is a lot of corruption, but the mayority of people in mexico are not corrupt.

Baja has off course has been affected by the levels of violence that we see in the mainland, but considering the huge surge in population in the last 15 yrs, its stupid for anyone to compare the crime in baja of 15yrs ago, with the crime we have today. Theres at least twice more people, theres more communications, and a drug war going on, so yes we do have more crime. But. Considering the situation in the mainland, we here in baja are lucky to have it so good. Goverment here has the power, not criminals, unlike may other parts of mexico.

I am not going to sugarcoat reality, many parts of baja are not what it was 15yrs ago, but many are still the same. There are a lot of problems, but we are doing far better than most other parts of mexico, and regardless of what the anti-mexico crowd yells, this is still a very safe and peaceful place to live. If it wasnt, we wouldnt have so many people from all over mexico, canada, and the us moving down here to retire or to start new lives. That is reality.

Any crime is bad, we should fight crime and demand justice be done everytime we are affected by it. We should prepare ourselves better, make plans to deal with problems, and react rapidly and strongly everytime a friend or relative gets into trouble, but we can't let rumors ad half truths cloud the fact that this is still a great and safe place to live.

3- Finally, i would like to finish by asking those anti-mexico people, why do they live posting their anti-mexico rants in a baja lovers message board? there is nothing wrong with posting news and stories about problems, but we all know some people live and breathe all day to just post every little piece of bad stuff they can find on the net, be that real or not.

I once told a mexican immigrant living in the US who complained to me about racism and descrimination. "if you don't like it, just go back home". And i feel the same applies to these mexico bashers, If you don't like it, go home. Nobody is forcing you to live here, nobody is forcing you to endure anything. So let those of us who like it here, live in peace, and take your bile and negativity somewhere else.

And for those that don't even live here and complain, my advice is simple:

Get a life

woody with a view - 11-22-2011 at 06:26 PM

it's just you.

you should see the bashers on some of the stock boards i check.....

it'll pass, or it won't.

J.P. - 11-22-2011 at 07:02 PM

JESSE I agree totaly. I canot understand the ones that constantly gripe and put this place down.Why are they here? I think a lot of folks came down here and spent their whole wad and if thew went back they would go back with nothing and to a life they could no longer afford . A lot have bought into the fear mongering. I see people where i live that wouldnt think of going into Ensenada to shop without going in a group and a lot of them will not shop there at all they go to the States. but the ones that peeSSSSSSSSSS me off the most spend their time trying to change things to like where in the hell ever they came from. if it was so great why did they leave. and then theres the crowd that think there so superior to the local people its sickening . My position is BAJA LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT.

MMc - 11-22-2011 at 07:06 PM

Jessy.
I think you have a point. There are a lot of posters here that haven't been south in years. Both lovers and haters.I take everything here with a bit of skeptical humor. MMc

David K - 11-22-2011 at 07:08 PM

Yah, don't let the player haters get to you Jesse... Look how much the USA is hated, and they still come here for a better way of life (maybe not for much longer, however)!!

Ateo - 11-22-2011 at 07:21 PM

Agree completely. Grow some balls and get on with life. Sick of it all. Don't like Mexico? Afraid? Stop posting! Stop going! Actually - post all you want. Free country.

Many Americans I know are total wimps. Sorry. I won't apologize for that. You're cushioned ass is getting lazy as a human being. Check yourself!

Are you even alive?

UnoMas - 11-22-2011 at 07:22 PM

Don't know why the Baja Bashers want to live a miserable life and complain about everything Mexico, like you say go back to where you came from! :o Spent the whole day in La Paz today hitting the segundas, shopping for supplies, having lunch, doing immigration stuff and never felt threatened, mistreated or any of the B.S. they like to post about. Guess they need to get off their computers and go out and do something fun:light::rolleyes::biggrin:

mcfez - 11-22-2011 at 07:37 PM

Baja...you either love it...or hate it.

Wish I could had raised my kids there.

KASHEYDOG - 11-22-2011 at 07:48 PM

I'm with you all the way, Jesse !!!

DENNIS - 11-22-2011 at 07:49 PM

Censorship sucks.

mulegemichael - 11-22-2011 at 08:21 PM

jesse....yer paranoid...my read...relax..take a deep breath..

Paula - 11-22-2011 at 08:25 PM

I agree with you Jesse. I find myself feeling uncomfortable with much of what is said here. So while I check in most days, I read less, and comment less.

Maybe Doug could follow up on the off-topic model with a whiners only forum:biggrin:

Loretana - 11-22-2011 at 08:27 PM

Jesse,

Thank you for another well constructed, erudite post.
Keep 'em comin'.
Love Loretana

shari - 11-22-2011 at 08:49 PM

Muy bien dicho Jesse.

DENNIS - 11-22-2011 at 09:55 PM

There are already guidelines for speech concerning this site. It sounds as though you people would like to expand the list of taboo subjects.
When you're done with that, tell everybody what you will allow them to wear while posting here.
What's more egregious than a negative attitude?
A bunch of self-righteous , pompous snobs who whip themselves into a frenzy thinking it's their place to tell others what they're allowed to say or where they should say it.
I guess most of you are unfamiliar with the First Ammendment. Too bad because, for sure, most of you are too old to learn.

You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

Islandbuilder - 11-22-2011 at 10:03 PM

Dennis, I read this thread as a request for self editing, not suggesting that others should have control over what you post. I'm too new here to have earned the right to speak to this beyond what I've already said.

Have a great Thanksgiving.

JESSE - 11-22-2011 at 10:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
There are already guidelines for speech concerning this site. It sounds as though you people would like to expand the list of taboo subjects.
When you're done with that, tell everybody what you will allow them to wear while posting here.
What's more egregious than a negative attitude?
A bunch of self-righteous , pompous snobs who whip themselves into a frenzy thinking it's their place to tell others what they're allowed to say or where they should say it.
I guess most of you are unfamiliar with the First Ammendment. Too bad because, for sure, most of you are too old to learn.

You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.


Dont try to to confuse people with lies. This is not about free speech, nobody is saying the topic should not be discussed or debated here. I am just saying some people seem to enjoy spending most of their days sitting in front of the computer finding anything remotely negative to post about Mexico. I doubt Doug will do aything about it, in fact i don't think Doug should do anything about it. But i did wanted to expose those wackos who should get out of their rooms and smell reality. Baja is not as bad as you claim it is, its also not perfect and has its many problems.

I understand many need the attention they get posting negative stuff desperately, because they probably don't have anything going on in their lives, but its not cool, and its not healthy. And i am going to venture out and say the majority of the readers want to hear about good and bad news in baja, but do not care much for the serial negative postings coming from those bitter people.

Skipjack Joe - 11-23-2011 at 12:23 AM

Jesse,

It would help if you would add a few links to threads about what you are talking about.

Some negativity is natural from any group of people that move into a culture they didn't grow up in. That's why there's a Little Italy in New York and a Chinatown in San Francisco. It's not that easy to come somewhere and be all smiles. As long as you feel about your new culture on the same level as your own (but different) you're doing fine - just bellyaching. But when you start to look down on someone then that's a problem.

This isn't the first time you've posted these same thoughts. And I hope you continue to do so because your perspective is unique among board members. In many ways you represent the Mexican people here. You are their voice. You remind us what they would say if they did write on this board. And that's real valuable.

DENNIS - 11-23-2011 at 07:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Dont try to to confuse people with lies.


No. I don't have to do that. You, and some others here are more easily confused by the painful truth.
Where and when did I lie? I'll respect your right to make that accusation if you'll respect my right to ask you for a reference.
Quote:

This is not about free speech,


It isnt?? Well, of course it is. You dislike what someone says and you're making an issue of it, trying to present your antagonist as indecent....and, doing so ostensibly for the well-being of the community.
Quote:

nobody is saying the topic should not be discussed or debated here.


Yes. You certainly are.
Quote:

But i did wanted to expose those wackos who should get out of their rooms and smell reality.


That, of course, would be your reality.
Quote:

Baja is not as bad as you claim it is,


Now, you're getting personal, so I must insist on references. Why did I know you would go in this direction?
Quote:

its also not perfect and has its many problems.


So...why do you object to having people point that out?
Quote:

And i am going to venture out and say the majority of the readers want to hear about good and bad news in baja, but do not care much for the serial negative postings coming from those bitter people.


And, I'm going to venture a guess that the majority of readers here don't digest what's distasteful and pass right on by the posters with a reputation for unfounded negativity. These things have a way of self-regulating and don't require censorship. To excercise a strength like that is a method of the weak-minded who let other's thoughts control them.
Is that you, Jesse? I would hope not.

castaway$ - 11-23-2011 at 10:08 AM

It never ceases to amaze me how in the cyber world some people scrutinize every word, read between the lines then attack. But in modern society we have the right to say what we think and not be censored no matter if you are left, right or middle.
Personally I agree with Jesse, and to those with a perpetual negative attitude, I'd rather not have to read it constantly because life is too short and I would rather go out smiling than frowning.
Indeed people need to be informed of both the good and the bad in Baja or anywhere but when you watch these threads evolve it's the personal attacks that I find offensive.
It's too bad we can't borrow a few of the features of Facebook and just individually block posts by people we may find offensive.

Mengano - 11-23-2011 at 10:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
I am just saying some people seem to enjoy spending most of their days sitting in front of the computer finding anything remotely negative to post about Mexico.

I noticed the same thing, in reverse. There are some people who seem to enjoy spending most of their days sitting in front of the computer finding anything remotely positive to post about Mexico. You know, like telling the whole world what will be on their restaurant menu for Thanksgiving, or suggesting his restaurant makes better hamburgers, or posting pictures of the latest dead fish guests at their B&B brought in to be filleted, or reposting ad naseum, pictures of the same plants in the flower pots in their yard, just so the tagline with the link to their B&B is on the post.

Funny thing though, all those people have a business in Mexico that would be adversely affected by negative comments. Every once in awhile some poor innocent souls fall prey and get their clocks cleaned out, like the Diana Giannelli's of the world, who don't know how to protect themselves from the vultures, and relied upon the advice of certain remorseless Baja Nomads.

bajabass - 11-23-2011 at 10:41 AM

Hey, I moved down here for pretty plants, dead fish and good food!!! :biggrin:Life in Baja is great.

I can think of a few posters that should get together, start a "I Hate Baja" web site, there by, spending less time being so negative here.:rolleyes:

:yes::yes::yes:

Iflyfish - 11-23-2011 at 10:49 AM

Mexican goats are inferior to North American Goats, but not as nasty. Just sayin' (this is humor, read with tongue in cheek, go see video posted above for an example of humor). I will save you the footnotes, just this time.

Well said Jesse.

Iflyfish

Anti-Mexico gang

C-Urchin - 11-23-2011 at 11:11 AM

I have frequently come across destitute Gringos barely subsisting in Mexico who don't even speak Spanish to an elementary school level.
Scary people.

JESSE - 11-23-2011 at 12:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mengano
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
I am just saying some people seem to enjoy spending most of their days sitting in front of the computer finding anything remotely negative to post about Mexico.

I noticed the same thing, in reverse. There are some people who seem to enjoy spending most of their days sitting in front of the computer finding anything remotely positive to post about Mexico. You know, like telling the whole world what will be on their restaurant menu for Thanksgiving, or suggesting his restaurant makes better hamburgers, or posting pictures of the latest dead fish guests at their B&B brought in to be filleted, or reposting ad naseum, pictures of the same plants in the flower pots in their yard, just so the tagline with the link to their B&B is on the post.

Funny thing though, all those people have a business in Mexico that would be adversely affected by negative comments. Every once in awhile some poor innocent souls fall prey and get their clocks cleaned out, like the Diana Giannelli's of the world, who don't know how to protect themselves from the vultures, and relied upon the advice of certain remorseless Baja Nomads.


1.-This board was crated by the remnants of the defunct amigos board back in the late 90's. I am pretty sure you did not post then ( i never saw you), because the main purpose of the board was to keep in touch with baja, because we loved baja. A guy like you would have been a fly on pozole, just totally useless, negative, and bitter. The fact that you complaint about people posting positive things about baja just shows you know nothing about the original purpose of the board, and shows your only here to pee on other peoples jacuzzi.

2.-Since this is a baja board, created for people that like baja, i think its great to know about that little restaurant on my way to el Rosario, or that new little hotel where i can rest in Guerrero Negro. I also like to learn about baja plants, animals etc etc. I am fully aware that bad things happen in baja as well, but if i want to learn about that, those news are all over the regular media, Mexican or American. Or do you honestly think you are doing us a favor by spending your entire day finding negative stuff to copy and paste here?

3.-People like you are precisely the problem. I don't mind negative legitimate posts from others who also can value good information and debate other topics. But you, a nut job who spends his entire day sitting in a computer, who doesn't even live in Mexico, who has been banned several times from this board and keeps coming back with new aliases, and who is so bitter, insane, and sad that you take time to create mirrow message boards to defame others simply because they tell you the truth, that you are not complete and fully functioning up there. You sir, are perro caca and not much else.

JESSE - 11-23-2011 at 12:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Dont try to to confuse people with lies.


No. I don't have to do that. You, and some others here are more easily confused by the painful truth.
Where and when did I lie? I'll respect your right to make that accusation if you'll respect my right to ask you for a reference.
Quote:

This is not about free speech,


It isnt?? Well, of course it is. You dislike what someone says and you're making an issue of it, trying to present your antagonist as indecent....and, doing so ostensibly for the well-being of the community.
Quote:

nobody is saying the topic should not be discussed or debated here.


Yes. You certainly are.
Quote:

But i did wanted to expose those wackos who should get out of their rooms and smell reality.


That, of course, would be your reality.
Quote:

Baja is not as bad as you claim it is,


Now, you're getting personal, so I must insist on references. Why did I know you would go in this direction?
Quote:

its also not perfect and has its many problems.


So...why do you object to having people point that out?
Quote:

And i am going to venture out and say the majority of the readers want to hear about good and bad news in baja, but do not care much for the serial negative postings coming from those bitter people.


And, I'm going to venture a guess that the majority of readers here don't digest what's distasteful and pass right on by the posters with a reputation for unfounded negativity. These things have a way of self-regulating and don't require censorship. To excercise a strength like that is a method of the weak-minded who let other's thoughts control them.
Is that you, Jesse? I would hope not.


DENNIS,

I didn't read your responses, your a negative guy sometimes, but your also a guy who contributes many positive things to this board, i have no beef with you. I think its normal to have some negative feedback every once in a while, but my beef is with those that are completely wacko and set on negative mode because they don't even live or like it here. Yes sometimes your a pain, but i am sure i am also a pain somedays, thats cool.

Its the people whos only purpose here is to post negative stuff that i feel they should all go to hell.

DENNIS - 11-23-2011 at 12:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
DENNIS,

I didn't read your responses, your a negative guy sometimes, but your also a guy who contributes many positive things to this board, i have no beef with you. I think its normal to have some negative feedback every once in a while, but my beef is with those that are completely wacko and set on negative mode because they don't even live or like it here. Yes sometimes your a pain, but i am sure i am also a pain somedays, thats cool.

Its the people whos only purpose here is to post negative stuff that i feel they should all go to hell.


Agreed. Thanks for the reply.

Woooosh - 11-23-2011 at 12:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE if i want to learn about that, those news are all over the regular media, Mexican or American.


That is simply not true, and that is the reason I find relevant posts about safety and security important. In nature the most beautiful things can also be the most dangerous- and Baja is no different. Nomads still want to know if their "secrets spots" are still there, if it is safe getting to and from there, and the best places around to stay and eat while they are enjoying them. A reality and safety check to make sure their Baja memories are worth revisiting.

JESSE - 11-23-2011 at 12:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE if i want to learn about that, those news are all over the regular media, Mexican or American.


That is simply not true, and that is the reason I find relevant posts about safety and security important. In nature the most beautiful things can also be the most dangerous- and Baja is no different. Nomads still want to know if their "secrets spots" are still there, if it is safe getting to and from there, and the best places around to stay and eat while they are enjoying them. A reality and safety check to make sure their Baja memories are worth revisiting.


Look, i also find posts about safety and security relevant, but they are relevant if they come from someone who at least likes it here, has lived here, and can also offer positive things to contribute. If they only come to here to post crap, they can go to hell.

bajabass - 11-23-2011 at 12:31 PM

Jesse, I've begun to look at the totally negative posters like ants at a picnic. Undesirable, but unavoidable as well. I still enjoy picnics:rolleyes:

Mengano - 11-23-2011 at 12:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
The fact that you complaint about people posting positive things about baja just shows you know nothing about the original purpose of the board.


I only complain about people lying about Baja. Is that the original purpose of the board, to lie? You know, like when you said La Paz was safer than the US, and then somebody who probably sits at the computer 18-hours per day posted the actual crime statistics, published in Mexico by Mexicans, that showed it had 5 times the crime rate as the US? Is that the negative news you are complaining about? The news that clearly shows you are posting bald-faced lies?

Los gallos cantan, pero las gallinas dar huevos.

JESSE - 11-23-2011 at 01:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mengano
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
The fact that you complaint about people posting positive things about baja just shows you know nothing about the original purpose of the board.


I only complain about people lying about Baja. Is that the original purpose of the board, to lie? You know, like when you said La Paz was safer than the US, and then somebody who probably sits at the computer 18-hours per day posted the actual crime statistics, published in Mexico by Mexicans, that showed it had 5 times the crime rate as the US? Is that the negative news you are complaining about? The news that clearly shows you are posting bald-faced lies?

Los gallos cantan, pero las gallinas dar huevos.


Get help, your mentally deranged, and you are not even aware of it.

JoeJustJoe - 11-23-2011 at 02:39 PM

Wow Jesse I'm so proud of you. It's about time somebody take on these Mexico/Mexican haters, racists, alarmists, and ugly American types.

When I use to read "Baja Nomad" from afar. I use to think the majority of members were world traveler types who had a "live and let live attitude." Boy was I wrong. We have so many "BN" members who look at things through the narrow lens of an Ugly American. However, there are some great people here on "BN" too who love Mexico almost unconditionally and think Mexico is a great place to live or vacation in, and they love Mexicans too.

Yeah there is room for negative news, and problems in Mexico, but for some "Nomad" members and other Mexican "alarmists." Bad news in the only thing they want to rant about. To them everything is bad about Mexico, and they never have one kind word to say about Mexico or Mexicans.

I think most of these people are just bitter about something in their life, or perhaps they were once ripped off in Mexico, and now it's their life goal to sound the alarm about the so-called dangerous Mexico.

I wish some of these types would just sell their Mexican homes even at a lost and go home to the USA. People like this give Americans a bad name too all over the world.



[Edited on 11-23-2011 by JoeJustJoe]

DENNIS - 11-23-2011 at 02:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
their Mexican homes


Houses have nationality??

Iflyfish - 11-23-2011 at 03:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Quote:
Originally posted by Mengano
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
The fact that you complaint about people posting positive things about baja just shows you know nothing about the original purpose of the board.


I only complain about people lying about Baja. Is that the original purpose of the board, to lie? You know, like when you said La Paz was safer than the US, and then somebody who probably sits at the computer 18-hours per day posted the actual crime statistics, published in Mexico by Mexicans, that showed it had 5 times the crime rate as the US? Is that the negative news you are complaining about? The news that clearly shows you are posting bald-faced lies?

Los gallos cantan, pero las gallinas dar huevos.


Get help, your mentally deranged, and you are not even aware of it.



Erick Berne, M.D. described a Psychological Game called "Ain't It Awful". This game is played by constantly seeing the negative in everything and spending time focused upon it. It reinforces the existential position of the protagonist "I'm superior" and that is a cover for deep insecurity and feelings of low self worth. This game can be played between the "Parents" of two or more people and can become a Pastime, like talking about Baseball or where I found the cheapest ..... you name it.

Ain’t It Awful is a favorite pastime of xpats everywhere, who lack the capacity for joy, play and real intimacy. The Game bonds like minded people together and provides stroking for all players. The result can feel uplifting to the players because it does structure time, which reduces social anxiety, and generates a feeling of bonding between the players.

If you confront, “kick”, game players they revert to the Victim position and then Persecute you. It’s all rather predictable and that is also why it is easy to join in playing this game, it both provides predictable human interactions and it reduces the real complexity of other people and other cultures to terms that are comfortable to the players.

People who spend their time in their Critical Parent Ego State are always telling you what is good/bad, what one should/shouldn’t do, what is the best/worst etc. They are not fun to be around unless you too like to hang out in that part of your psyche. People who spend time in their Free Child Ego States are much more fun to be around as long as they have onboard an Adult to moderate their behavior and emotionality.

Nuff said. References upon request.

Iflyfish

lizard lips - 11-23-2011 at 03:21 PM

As most of you know I travel all over Mexico and have lived in Baja for many years. Mexico and the states of Baja Sur and Baja Calif. have changed as far as criminal activity is concerned in places that I never thought it would ever happen. Because of this my way of doing things have changed as well. There are cities and states that I will not go back to anytime soon such as Tamaulipas, Chihuahua, Coahuila, Michoacan, Guerrero, and Nayarit. I have worked in all the small ranchos and cities in Mexico along the Texas, Arizona and New Mexico border that will never see my face again. Just to dangerous. Sinaloa is another however I will be going to Mazatlan in December to work on a murder investigation and I have no problem there in that I feel pretty safe. I just turned down an assignment in Culiacan last week because it's crime has been just crazy for several years. Last time I was there was two years ago but that area including Los Mochis and Guasave are very active, as anywhere in Sinaloa, with crime and I'm done in these area as well. Acapulco, forget about it.

I always believed that Cabo San Lucas was a very safe place to go and immune from criminal activity but what has happened recently with a shooting in front of a supermarket has me very concerned.

So where is it safer, Mexico or the U.S.? I really don't know but what I can tell you is I would have no problem going to any state in the U.S. for business or pleasure.

Has elected government officials in cities and states in Mexico seen a decrease in being involved in criminal activity? NO-----Where is a chart or graft that can explain this? There are none and you don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows and it has been blowing in the same direction for 500 years. Why has this changed so suddenly now?

We that live in Baja and mainland Mexico have to take more precautions than we did before, there's no doubt about it. Not only are the cartels involved but there are groups and individuals that have joined in on kidnappings and have targeted small business owners for extortion and threats of death if they don't pay for "protection" and yes Jesse, you could say this was happening in the U.S. I would feel more comfortable calling the police in the U.S. for help than in Mexico when you really don't know if they are involved or bought off.

I really like Baja and living here but times have changed and I am concerned and there are those who see through rose colored glasses and go about there business as nothing has happened and all is well until it does and affects them in a negative way.

The Nomad board attracts those who despise Mexico and Mexicans and the gringos who live here but we that have made the move know all to well what is actually occurring good and bad. Lately there hasn't been to much good to report with over 40,000 murders in the last 6 years. It's a fact plain and simple. Try and overcome the big picture. You can't.

This post is from someone who really cares about the future of Mexico and it's people. I am not being negative, just informative and honest. For those of you who want to sit there and pick apart this post have at it. It is just the truth as I know it. Enuf said......

bufeo - 11-23-2011 at 03:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish...Erick Berne, M.D. described a Psychological Game called "Ain't It Awful". ... References upon request. Iflyfish


Games People Play. Good book. Still refer to it on occasion.

Allen R

Skipjack Joe - 11-23-2011 at 03:36 PM

I guess I'll erase mine since Lencho removed his post.

[Edited on 11-24-2011 by Skipjack Joe]

woody with a view - 11-23-2011 at 03:48 PM

i don't REALLY care, but could we get some names of the worst offenders? maybe a link to the thread that chapped your hide?

a title like -> "Subject: Anti-Mexico gang keeps growing" is really just like BajaRich saying "do you like Loreto or Calexico?" there is too much subjectivity to lead to an apples to apples conversation.

that said, i'm sure EVERY ONE of us might have uttered the dreaded words that Mexico is an armpit of the world at one time or another. or at least been interpreted as having done so.

Happy Dia de Zopilote a TODO!!!!

Mengano - 11-23-2011 at 03:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
Erick Berne, M.D. described a Psychological Game called "Ain't It Awful". This game is played by constantly seeing the negative in everything and spending time focused upon it. It reinforces the existential position of the protagonist "I'm superior" and that is a cover for deep insecurity and feelings of low self worth. This game can be played between the "Parents" of two or more people and can become a Pastime, like talking about Baseball or where I found the cheapest ..... you name it.


What a great, in-depth internet psychiatric analysis. Do you do a lot of testifying as an expert witness on psychological matters? Of course, if you are really interested in that, you should also read, "I'm OK, You're OK", by Thomas A Harris MD.

Pointing out that somebody is lying in order to advance his own personal agenda is not a psychological game, nor is it anything that one needs to be cured of. Altruism is not a mental illness. As Freud may have said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

JESSE - 11-23-2011 at 04:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lizard lips
As most of you know I travel all over Mexico and have lived in Baja for many years. Mexico and the states of Baja Sur and Baja Calif. have changed as far as criminal activity is concerned in places that I never thought it would ever happen. Because of this my way of doing things have changed as well. There are cities and states that I will not go back to anytime soon such as Tamaulipas, Chihuahua, Coahuila, Michoacan, Guerrero, and Nayarit. I have worked in all the small ranchos and cities in Mexico along the Texas, Arizona and New Mexico border that will never see my face again. Just to dangerous. Sinaloa is another however I will be going to Mazatlan in December to work on a murder investigation and I have no problem there in that I feel pretty safe. I just turned down an assignment in Culiacan last week because it's crime has been just crazy for several years. Last time I was there was two years ago but that area including Los Mochis and Guasave are very active, as anywhere in Sinaloa, with crime and I'm done in these area as well. Acapulco, forget about it.

I always believed that Cabo San Lucas was a very safe place to go and immune from criminal activity but what has happened recently with a shooting in front of a supermarket has me very concerned.

So where is it safer, Mexico or the U.S.? I really don't know but what I can tell you is I would have no problem going to any state in the U.S. for business or pleasure.

Has elected government officials in cities and states in Mexico seen a decrease in being involved in criminal activity? NO-----Where is a chart or graft that can explain this? There are none and you don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows and it has been blowing in the same direction for 500 years. Why has this changed so suddenly now?

We that live in Baja and mainland Mexico have to take more precautions than we did before, there's no doubt about it. Not only are the cartels involved but there are groups and individuals that have joined in on kidnappings and have targeted small business owners for extortion and threats of death if they don't pay for "protection" and yes Jesse, you could say this was happening in the U.S. I would feel more comfortable calling the police in the U.S. for help than in Mexico when you really don't know if they are involved or bought off.

I really like Baja and living here but times have changed and I am concerned and there are those who see through rose colored glasses and go about there business as nothing has happened and all is well until it does and affects them in a negative way.

The Nomad board attracts those who despise Mexico and Mexicans and the gringos who live here but we that have made the move know all to well what is actually occurring good and bad. Lately there hasn't been to much good to report with over 40,000 murders in the last 6 years. It's a fact plain and simple. Try and overcome the big picture. You can't.

This post is from someone who really cares about the future of Mexico and it's people. I am not being negative, just informative and honest. For those of you who want to sit there and pick apart this post have at it. It is just the truth as I know it. Enuf said......


Nobody disagrees with your view, and i don't think anybody wants to see things tru rose colored glasses, there is an increase in crime and up to a certain point, its normal, in other areas its not. But this is not the hell hole some want baja to be, this is still a pretty safe place to live.

JoeJustJoe - 11-23-2011 at 04:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mengano
Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
Erick Berne, M.D. described a Psychological Game called "Ain't It Awful". This game is played by constantly seeing the negative in everything and spending time focused upon it. It reinforces the existential position of the protagonist "I'm superior" and that is a cover for deep insecurity and feelings of low self worth. This game can be played between the "Parents" of two or more people and can become a Pastime, like talking about Baseball or where I found the cheapest ..... you name it.


What a great, in-depth internet psychiatric analysis. Do you do a lot of testifying as an expert witness on psychological matters? Of course, if you are really interested in that, you should also read, "I'm OK, You're OK", by Thomas A Harris MD.

Pointing out that somebody is lying in order to advance his own personal agenda is not a psychological game, nor is it anything that one needs to be cured of. Altruism is not a mental illness. As Freud may have said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."


Oh I use to love the 70's Psychobabble. My personal favorite use to be Arthur Janov's "Primal Scream." It works wonders when you let out a loud primal scream!

However I do think Iflyfish makes a few insightful good points.

And it's nice to see you Mengano and Dennis on the same side again. Dennis use to be a very strong follower of yours, and thought you were often right on with your analysis of Mexico, but then thought your wagon got unhinged and you lost your way or something. ( I guess Dennis can only tell us)

Mengano make the "BN" forums speak their mind. I find they often wimp out, and don't tell what's really on their mind. Already a few of them are trying to take this serious discussion off topic to "La La Land" because they don't want to discuss this serious topic and confront their own demons.

DENNIS - 11-23-2011 at 04:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
( I guess Dennis can only tell us)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkwmKZuyF5E

bajabass - 11-23-2011 at 04:39 PM

I confronted my demons, :oflipped them off, :fire:and left them in California.:tumble:

Bajahowodd - 11-23-2011 at 05:07 PM

Quote:

********************


And you beat me to the punch, commenting on doltish rambling that is in no way, shape or form applicable to this topic.

That said, along with Dennis' apt observation about free speech, I really think folks have to look around and realize that especially since the financial meltdown and the jump in unemployment in the US, anti-immigration rhetoric has skyrocketed.

Just watch as we build higher fences. This non-stop bashing of Mexicans which is so prevalent on Fox news cannot but sink into our national psyche.

I'm thinking that the current perceived economic disaster in the US, which can be mostly blamed on massive tax cuts and two useless wars of choice left unfunded, needs to be covered up by identifying a scapegoat.

Folks who post on this board, by and large, are past, current or future friends of Baja. But, they don't live in a world immune to the constant drone of blaming foreigners for our mess.

Now, had Calderon not taken a baseball bat to the hornet's nest and caused so much travail within Mexico, things might be a tad less hostile. Yet, given the fact that housing inflation was obscuring the decrease in good paying jobs throughout the US for over a decade, seems like all chickens came home to roost at the same time.

Obviously Jesse perceives an increased negativity in the tone of posts on here. But he also ought to understand that the world beyond Nomad has been stirring this up for a long time.

[Edited on 11-24-2011 by BajaNomad]

ElCazadorAZ - 11-23-2011 at 05:13 PM

I would just have to add, as a FNG here, that I feel safer in the Baja California part of Mexico than I do in most parts of Phoenix, Tucson, Las Vegas, Albuquerque, New Orleans, Washington DC, etc., etc., etc. The publicity associated with the recent brutal Mexican crime is eye candy to the US news-junkie masses. For one thing, beheading is definitely not part of our culture and very dramatic, without a doubt. I'll butt back out of this one with this flabby old cliche': If you look for trouble, you will find it. I'll add to that: If you really DIG trouble, you'll revel in it when you DO find it.... H.

Iflyfish - 11-23-2011 at 05:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mengano
Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
Erick Berne, M.D. described a Psychological Game called "Ain't It Awful". This game is played by constantly seeing the negative in everything and spending time focused upon it. It reinforces the existential position of the protagonist "I'm superior" and that is a cover for deep insecurity and feelings of low self worth. This game can be played between the "Parents" of two or more people and can become a Pastime, like talking about Baseball or where I found the cheapest ..... you name it.


What a great, in-depth internet psychiatric analysis. Do you do a lot of testifying as an expert witness on psychological matters? Of course, if you are really interested in that, you should also read, "I'm OK, You're OK", by Thomas A Harris MD.

Pointing out that somebody is lying in order to advance his own personal agenda is not a psychological game, nor is it anything that one needs to be cured of. Altruism is not a mental illness. As Freud may have said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."


I am glad you appreciate my in-depth internet psychiatric analysis. Having retired and surrendered my license, I can no longer diagnose nor treat Mental Health Conditions. I can no longer be called as an expert witness. I have hung up my shingle from a very satisfying career. My seven years training in Transactional Analysis and Gestalt Therapies exposed me to the work of Harris as well as others in the field.

I apologize for my lack of clarity and am sorry for any confusion I might have generated. I made no reference to anyone lying and my post was not intended to do so. Further I believe that altruism exists across the animal kingdom and never intended to propose that it is pathological. Sometimes a cigar is indeed just a cigar and sometimes it is indeed more (ask Bill Clinton).

The point of my rather obtuse post was to share with Jesse and others that there are indeed people who spend their time “sniffing sh..” and who structure their lives around that function. I believe this to be cross cultural in nature. I believe that people who structure their social interactions around “Ain’t It Awful” will not give up their game in the face of new information etc. because to do so would require a great deal of effort and a shift in psychology, which is not easy.

I appreciate and share the perspective of lizard lips regarding crime in Mexico. I have traveled Mexico for over 45 years and am glad I have been to the places he mentions and no longer feel safe in them. I missed the siege of Morelia by 15 minutes last winter and saw the aftermath.

Having said that about crime I still love Mexico and there are places I would go in a heartbeat. About a month ago I spent another three weeks on the mainland and was in an area that was very safe. There was one murder during my time there in contrast to about six in Portland, Oregon where I live in a suburb. One needs awareness as well as perspective when traveling to other countries and Mexico is no exception.
In my view it is very possible to be aware and enjoy at the same time. Many live in fear and it limits their ability to find joy in life. Many spend their time looking for the negative and find their meaning in doing so. There are other people who live “Sunny Side Up” and their “rose colored glasses” can be very dangerous to wear.

I have met many Americans and Canadians in Mexico who spend their time talking about what does not work and taking pride in their last economic conquest in Mexico. I find these people boring. I also understand that there are a limited number of ways that one can structure out time between when the sun goes up and when it goes down. I like to hang around intelligent people who are aware and know how to play. I have met many people who have set about the life work of unmasking the incompetence of those older or wiser than they (parents) and I find myself very intolerant of the “Yes/But” game. I believe that we cannot write a sentence without it reflecting our psychology. I also believe that contempt is toxic and don’t book it well.

I hope this clarifies my post and addresses any confusion I may have created.

Iflyfish

JESSE - 11-23-2011 at 05:40 PM

Just to recap my point of view:

1.-Its cool to post bad stuff about baja

2.-Its cool to post bad stuff about baja

3.-Its cool to have different points of view

3.-Its NOT cool to sit around all day posting just negative crap

4.-Its NOT cool to come and post here when your agenda is just "i hate mexico"

5.-Its NOT cool to forget why we came here in the first place, to read and learn, and enjoy the good things in baja

Just my two centavos, everyone else has the right to do what they please.

Barry A. - 11-23-2011 at 05:45 PM

I love my "rose colored glasses", and they have served me well over many years (so far) and kept me, as well as those around me, pretty happy. If there IS "danger" there, then it sure feels good---but sometimes "danger" is the spice of life, especially if you don't take it too seriously.

:lol::yes:

Good post, Fish.

Barry

Mulegena - 11-23-2011 at 05:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
... that said, i'm sure EVERY ONE of us might have uttered the dreaded words that Mexico is an armpit of the world at one time or another. or at least been interpreted as having done so.
Don't believe this is the case with myself or others I hold dear, but yeah I've heard it.
Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
Happy Dia de Zopilote a TODO!!!!

and yes, speaking of inconsistencies, I'm of Native blood but I love the celebration of Thanksgiving-- my fav holiday. In keeping with the Native American/Indian philosophy I try to remember and give thanks throughout each day... and smile, too.

So, for a little humour, this: http://www.elephantjournal.com/2011/11/damn-illegal-immigran...

Roberto - 11-23-2011 at 05:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by woody with a view
i don't REALLY care, but could we get some names of the worst offenders? maybe a link to the thread that chapped your hide?

a title like -> "Subject: Anti-Mexico gang keeps growing" is really just like BajaRich saying "do you like Loreto or Calexico?" there is too much subjectivity to lead to an apples to apples conversation.

that said, i'm sure EVERY ONE of us might have uttered the dreaded words that Mexico is an armpit of the world at one time or another. or at least been interpreted as having done so.

Happy Dia de Zopilote a TODO!!!!


Vulture day? Huh? Perhaps you meant pavo?

[Edited on 11-24-2011 by Roberto]

ElCazadorAZ - 11-23-2011 at 05:54 PM

Quote:
Happy Dia de Zopilote a TODO!!!!


You're eating Vulture? Buzzard? Owl? Mmm-MMM!

Roberto - 11-23-2011 at 06:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Just to recap my point of view:

1.-Its cool to post bad stuff about baja

2.-Its cool to post bad stuff about baja

3.-Its cool to have different points of view

3.-Its NOT cool to sit around all day posting just negative crap

4.-Its NOT cool to come and post here when your agenda is just "i hate mexico"

5.-Its NOT cool to forget why we came here in the first place, to read and learn, and enjoy the good things in baja

Just my two centavos, everyone else has the right to do what they please.


You forgot:

6. - I just have a problem with some:lol: people and will try to make criticisms about them and pass them as legitimate whenever I feel like it. :lol::lol:

[Edited on 11-24-2011 by Roberto]

Iflyfish - 11-23-2011 at 06:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
I love my "rose colored glasses", and they have served me well over many years (so far) and kept me, as well as those around me, pretty happy. If there IS "danger" there, then it sure feels good---but sometimes "danger" is the spice of life, especially if you don't take it too seriously.

:lol::yes:

Good post, Fish.

Barry


Sometimes fear and excitement are very close to eachother! This is why it is important to have a safe word for those who are really into it.
Iflyfish

DianaT - 11-23-2011 at 06:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mulegena
So, for a little humour, this: http://www.elephantjournal.com/2011/11/damn-illegal-immigran...


Love that picture.

THANKS

DENNIS - 11-23-2011 at 06:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Roberto
Vulture day? Huh? Perhaps you meant pavo?



Or this..........guajolote.

"Aint it Awful"

Skipjack Joe - 11-23-2011 at 07:17 PM

Iflyfish,

How do you explain the love affair the nation had with Andy Rooney, a man who made a reputation of doing just the sort of thing that you paint so negative?

Just curious on your take on that.

Oh wait a minute. I guess that makes this a "Yes, but" post. I guess that's why I've never liked psychology very much. It makes me too self conscious.

wessongroup - 11-23-2011 at 07:42 PM

but, with humor .. IMHO ...

Iflyfish - 11-23-2011 at 09:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Iflyfish,

How do you explain the love affair the nation had with Andy Rooney, a man who made a reputation of doing just the sort of thing that you paint so negative?

Just curious on your take on that.

Oh wait a minute. I guess that makes this a "Yes, but" post. I guess that's why I've never liked psychology very much. It makes me too self conscious.


I appreciate a critical thinking mind, one that questions, is curious, has a sense of wonder, and is iconoclastic when the situation presents itself to take down an idol. You ask a great question. We have engaged in numerous discussions on this board and you consistently display an inquiring, curios mind. You love to share information, experience and knowledge. If you read carefully others postings you will see patterns of interactions in which games are played with the goal of discrediting the author rather than learning from their interactions. You see the predictable put downs, the Ain’t It Awful game that Jesse has identified.

Self consciousness is a very valuable thing if it is not chronically self critical. Self consciousness can be self awareness if experienced from the thinking part of us rather than the critical part of us. Your awareness of the potential of me or others putting you down and victimizing you with a prosecutorial retort claiming you are playing “Aint It Awful” actually demonstrates a rather sophisticated awareness of social interactions and the potential of a game emerging out of a transaction. I congratulate your preemptive strike against it. This is a sign of intelligence on your part and an attempt to have a game free dialogue based upon genuine curiosity. This is refreshing. It is possible to learn when one takes this stance. Engaging in earnest discussion and debate is about learning, satisfying our curiosity, generating equality and equanimity by engaging in intellectual dialogue and stroking as we learn. This is a different matter than reading anthers writing in order to find the flaw and demonstrate that they are flawed, inferior, a fraud after all, just like their over critical biological parent or parent figure. “See, dad (mom) is really full of crap, even though he tries to look so good”. “See we real Americans are superior to these …….substitute a racial slur here….”

We all love to see the emperor without his clothes, the great knocked down a notch, hubris confronted etc. That is a different matter than organizing ones sense of self around finding the negative in EVERYTHING as an existential position in life. We enjoy Andy Rooney, we have an "affair" with him, if we are healthy we don't become him, we become our authentic selves and are capable of intimacy. Andy Rooney made a life's work of saying some of the things that all of us might have wanted to say but were too repressed to do so. He was a loveable curmudgeon, an inappropriate uncle who spoke his authentic mind. He was a critic who loved the world he critiqued. We also love our comedians for doing the same thing, John Stewart is an excellent snarky example of this.

There are a limited number of adaptive strategies we can employ as human beings to address the issue of who we are and how we fit in the world and how we go about acquiring out stroking. Erick Berne, M.D. identified three Psychological Roles on can assume in the world if one is to assume a role, and most of us do. One role is Victim, another Persecutor and yet another, the role of Rescuer. A game is played by switching between these roles. You start out in one role and then end up in another via a series of predictable moves that end up with the same outcome. These games generate emotions, structure time and reinforce existential positions. We all require emotional stroking and need to structure social interaction. Rescuers ultimately become Victims etc. There are real rescuers in the world, they have red crosses on their sleeves and there are real victims, they have buildings fall on them, and there are Prosecutors in the legal system. Then there are the Psychological Persecutors, Rescuers and Victims to which we are referring.

Berne was a Social Psychiatrist and analyzed transactions between people. By analyzing these transactions he identified a series of psychological games.

Here is a list of games and their functions.
http://tinyurl.com/75k7ju8

My point in all of this is that there are psychological motivations behind some of the positions that people chronically take and we can see them over time. No amount of information, analysis or persuasion will change someone else’s position if their goal is to play a psychological game. The goal is not an exchange of information but rather to engage in a series of exchanges with a clearly predictable emotional outcome.

An example of what I am talking about is this. Notice how some people get themselves consistently kicked when they post the same catch phrases over and over…. The game is called “Kick Me”. It is played to acquire stroking by getting others to “dump” on them. These are the kids on the playground that consistently get other kids to be peeed off at them and to hit, kick, punch and ridicule them. This is not to say that there are not innocent victims of bullying, there are real victims. Then there are those who consistently set themselves up to get kicked.

There are genuine problems with safety in Mexico. Baja has been somewhat blessed by its geographical situation relative to the main shipping routes of the Drug Cartels. Much like the US was in its early years buffered from much of what went on in Europe because of it being surrounded by oceans. It is sad for us who love Baja to see it hurt by these folks and we all have a right to legitimate anger and outrage over tragedies that we see before our eyes. However it is also true that most of the territory of the Baja is relatively free of the horrors of the Cartels and we can hope that its geography can continue to provide some protection. It is also true that much of what we love about Baja and Mexico still remain and will always do so just as was true in the USofA during our Prohibition when the gangs ran wild on the soil of the north.

Iflyfish

"Kick Me"

Skipjack Joe - 11-24-2011 at 12:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish

The game is called “Kick Me”. It is played to acquire stroking by getting others to “dump” on them.


Are you saying that they play kick me to gain sympathy? To have others step in and say nice things. An indirect way of generating praise?

----------------------------------------------------------------

Well, it's 11:30 now, almost Thanksgiving.

So from one curmudgeon to another - "Happy Holidays".

CaboRon - 11-24-2011 at 06:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Censorship sucks.

Nomad toons could be changed to the whiners board

bajadave1 - 11-24-2011 at 08:10 AM

nothing has been posted to that board in years.
:spingrin::spingrin:

Iflyfish - 11-24-2011 at 09:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish

The game is called “Kick Me”. It is played to acquire stroking by getting others to “dump” on them.


Are you saying that they play kick me to gain sympathy? To have others step in and say nice things. An indirect way of generating praise?

We all need stroking to survive, after infancy we acquire those strokes via social interactions. If we can't get positive strokes negative ones have the same value. Ever notice how if you ignore a child they will escalate and get you to pay attention? They are acquiring negative strokes from you. Some people get addicted to getting negative strokes and will maneuver to acquire them from you, hence the name of the game "kick me". It seems odd and convoluted if you are not a "kick me" player.

Ain't It Awful players will get strokes by engaging you in dialogue about how bad things are. This dialogue can go on forever and become a pastime, like discussing the weather or baseball, how poorly other women dress, the crime in Mexico, the superiority of Republican thinking, the virtue of Texas and Texans, you get the idea.

Here's wishing you that there is only one Turkey at your table today!

Iflyfish

Mengano - 11-24-2011 at 09:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
Ain't It Awful players will get strokes by engaging you in dialogue about how bad things are. This dialogue can go on forever and become a pastime, like discussing the weather or baseball, how poorly other women dress, the crime in Mexico, the superiority of Republican thinking, the virtue of Texas and Texans, you get the idea.

Here's wishing you that there is only one Turkey at your table today!


Incredible. You tell us about the Ain't it Awful players and then conclude your statement with an "Ain't it Awful" statement. Wouldn't a non-game player merely have said "Have a Happy Thanksgiving"?

Doctor, heal thyself!

DENNIS - 11-24-2011 at 09:31 AM

Since this thread has been retired to the analyst's couch, it should be left to fall asleep.

McFez says.............I am the defender of Baja!

mcfez - 11-24-2011 at 09:44 AM

I totally agree with JESSE's original post here. I for one....understood what points he was making.....I say also that there are idiots in here at the BN that simply are here to install negative remarks towards topics of Mexico.......and DO NOT EVER present positive commentaries about Mexico. Who? Certainly Mengano (Fulano)....Baja 1943....a few other others. Zero positive commentaries.

Hell...I can post 100% negatives about Mexico too..... dangling heads off bridges.....mass murder.....drug infested cities and towns......hookers....It's hell down there folks!

Hell...I can post 100% negatives about United States too.....let's pick out Anaheim for a example..home of the famous and over crowded Disneyland.......In 2003, Anaheim reported murder (9), robbery (410 reported incidents) and aggravated assault (824 incidents), 1,971 burglaries were reported, as well as 6,708 thefts, 1,767 car thefts, and 654 car accidents...and 43 cases of arson.
Wow! this was 10 years ago and for ONE town in good ol' USA. DONT TRAVEL THERE....YOU'LL DIE!

The majority of us will simply talk about the good fun we had at Disneyland....and some of us will include the negative aspects of going to Disneyland. We all know that there is danger in all cities...and the smart traveler will stray away from the ghettos and red light districts.......just as you should when traveling Baja...Mexico....Germany...Belize...Russia...so forth. For anyone to keep pounding away with negative remarks about Disneyland.....and zero positive commentaries...we all know that that person has mega issues with life. This is the same when idiots such as Mengano displays 100% negative remarks and debates.

Baja is just as safe and fun as you may wish to make it...with good foresight and judgement calls. I'm a big guy. Had my days running a few NightClubs and Mom n Pop Bars...runs to the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally....as well as the Redding runs......but I wouldn't be stupid to be walking downtown TJ, Ensenada, San Felipe......at 3 a.m. Oh.....include Anaheim!

So yes....I too am sick and tired of reading garbage from BN's here that promotes 100% negative.

My good BN amigo here...DENNIS....says freedom of speech is the freedom to speak freely without censorship. I do indeed agree with DENNIS.....probably more so than him! I am not some BN here that exchanges 100 % positive remarks....posts of 100% positive topics....fact is...I am sure my reputation here has a "blemish or two" :-) ! However.....I do not post 100% negative remarks as a few do here. This is what I believe JESSE was trying to point out......100% outright anit Mexico remarks.

For the average traveler, the USA is fairly safe, but the numbers do not lie. There are more than 200 million guns in the USA and more than 50 murders a day, 10 times the rate of Germany. Nearly 5000 people die a year in truck crashes, about 6000 pedestrians die on the streets and 31000 people end their own lives. The USA now leads all nations in violent crime and leads all nations with incarcerations now standing at 2.3 million. American citizens also make up the greatest number of criminals serving time in overseas prisons. Militias, hate groups and other right wing radicals all spread their message of violence and are known to throw around the odd pipe-bomb. The government is not much better, spending a whopping $600 billion a year on defense in order to contain the handful of nations hostile to it.

See the top ten countries that ranked.....not the place to travel!
http://listverse.com/2008/04/08/top-10-most-dangerous-places...

[Edited on 11-24-2011 by mcfez]

DENNIS - 11-24-2011 at 10:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
My good BN amigo here...DENNIS....says freedom of speech is the freedom to speak freely without censorship.


Thanks Deno. I appreciate your comments.
I do want to say, however, and as long as Jesse and I are agreeable on mutual respect, that Jesse's points, those concerning negativity, were and are the furthest thing from my mind.
My point, albeit muddled, was that in Jesse's effort to point out a problem, he also was tacitly [others...not so tacit] offering a solution....that of stifling a free flow of dialogue, and to me, that's repugnant. Jesse's, and others, proposal for an ideal, their ideal, form of speech here is denied in my estimation.
Now...Jesse, and others, may object to this, and that's alright. I'm only saying it as I saw it.

Anyway....have a good day, Deno, and thanks again.

Iflyfish - 11-24-2011 at 10:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mengano
Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
Ain't It Awful players will get strokes by engaging you in dialogue about how bad things are. This dialogue can go on forever and become a pastime, like discussing the weather or baseball, how poorly other women dress, the crime in Mexico, the superiority of Republican thinking, the virtue of Texas and Texans, you get the idea.

Here's wishing you that there is only one Turkey at your table today!


Incredible. You tell us about the Ain't it Awful players and then conclude your statement with an "Ain't it Awful" statement. Wouldn't a non-game player merely have said "Have a Happy Thanksgiving"?

Doctor, heal thyself!


Ouch, got me……well played.....thank you!

I guess there is some truth to the old adage that a Sadist is someone who gives pleasure to a Masochist. I needed that…..thanks, that hurt so good!

Given your response I am sure you will love my Thanksgiving gift to you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCzVyRJlJgc

Iflyfishbitingmylip

Skipjack Joe - 11-24-2011 at 11:42 AM

Back to the Kick Me game:

I've been watching it here on nomads for a decade without understanding why it was going on. I knew it was being repeated for a reason because the choice was made over and over but I couldn't figure out what the 'victim' was getting out of it. Now it's getting clearer.

BTW, I wonder if a negative thread about too much negativism cancels each other out somehow.

Iflyfish - 11-24-2011 at 12:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Back to the Kick Me game:

I've been watching it here on nomads for a decade without understanding why it was going on. I knew it was being repeated for a reason because the choice was made over and over but I couldn't figure out what the 'victim' was getting out of it. Now it's getting clearer.

BTW, I wonder if a negative thread about too much negativism cancels each other out somehow.


Double negative, funny!

For some fun see if you can find the game "NIGYSOB" (Now I Got You You SOB) in this thread. This game is one in which the protagonist gets to triumph in their superiority by finding the "flaw" in the other, it's a Persecutor/Victim game. The protagonist is operating out of a position of low self esteme and gets to feel superior by unmasking the other player as a fraud. There is usually a lot of repressed anger toward parental figures who treated them harshly. It is a way to express repressed hostility and to reinforce their existential position. Their basic position in life is I'm Not Ok and You Are NOT OK either! They are nihilists. These people can be dangerous if they play the game in the 3rd degree. Prison populations have a lot of these folks in them, they were often abused, and may deeply deny their abuse so keep acting it out on others.

First degree games result in minor irritation, second degree causes social disruption and third degree involves tissue damage. One has to be careful when playing with folks like this. First degree players are just not fun at your party, if they ever get invited.

I will play for a while if I am bored just to see the game play out, like watching your favorite bad team who can't score a point.

Iflyfishwithturkeyonmyface

Oddjob - 11-24-2011 at 12:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez

For the average traveler, the USA is fairly safe, but the numbers do not lie. There are more than 200 million guns in the USA and more than 50 murders a day, 10 times the rate of Germany. Nearly 5000 people die a year in truck crashes, about 6000 pedestrians die on the streets and 31000 people end their own lives. The USA now leads all nations in violent crime and leads all nations with incarcerations now standing at 2.3 million. American citizens also make up the greatest number of criminals serving time in overseas prisons. Militias, hate groups and other right wing radicals all spread their message of violence and are known to throw around the odd pipe-bomb. The government is not much better, spending a whopping $600 billion a year on defense in order to contain the handful of nations hostile to it
See the top ten countries that ranked.....not the place to travel!
http://listverse.com/2008/04/08/top-10-most-dangerous-places...





McFez, where did you get your statistics on the US leading all nations in violent crime? Your listverse.com site doesn't show the US in the top ten that are listed. Please give accurate facts.

Please give accurate facts.

mcfez - 11-24-2011 at 01:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Oddjob
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez


http://listverse.com/2008/04/08/top-10-most-dangerous-places...





McFez, where did you get your statistics on the US leading all nations in violent crime? Your listverse.com site doesn't show the US in the top ten that are listed. Please give accurate facts.


Hey oddjob...had you read the entire story (page)...you would had seen the story under: "bonus" added to the top ten places......at the very last of this news account.

I love trolls like you.....

I suggest that perhaps the reading level at listverse.com was well past your Anarcho-primitivism life style. May I suggest this book for you....

dj.jpg - 12kB

Oddjob - 11-24-2011 at 01:42 PM

McFez, please try to interpret your post a little better before you add your silly digs and attachments and attack my reading level. You are claiming that the US is the MOST violent country in the world and that is not true according to your link. Getting mentioned as a bonus without a ranking doesn't put it in the top ten.Go back and read it very slowly and try really hard to grasp it.

mcfez - 11-24-2011 at 02:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Oddjob
McFez, please try to interpret your post a little better before you add your silly digs and attachments and attack my reading level. You are claiming that the US is the MOST violent country in the world and that is not true according to your link. Getting mentioned as a bonus without a ranking doesn't put it in the top ten.Go back and read it very slowly and try really hard to grasp it.


Oh...be a man and admit that you messed up. If you cant...I understand.

"You are claiming that"......no...the news account was. Go back and read it very slowly and try really hard to grasp it :-)

Iflyfish - 11-24-2011 at 03:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
Quote:
Originally posted by Oddjob
McFez, please try to interpret your post a little better before you add your silly digs and attachments and attack my reading level. You are claiming that the US is the MOST violent country in the world and that is not true according to your link. Getting mentioned as a bonus without a ranking doesn't put it in the top ten.Go back and read it very slowly and try really hard to grasp it.


Oh...be a man and admit that you messed up. If you cant...I understand.

"You are claiming that"......no...the news account was. Go back and read it very slowly and try really hard to grasp it :-)


I think that the difference lies in how one defines violence. Is the invasion of a foreign nation without provocation considered violence? Is the displacement of 2 million people in that country considered violence? Is having the highest per capita prison population in the world considered violence? Is being the largest arms dealer in the world considered to be violent because that country supplies arms to nations engaged in civil wars? Is a nation considered violent if it engages in assasination and the overthrows of elected governments? I think it's a matter of perspective.

If one is to look at person/person violence then Latin America Nations hold the prize for the six most violent nations in the world. Not a prize one would want to hang in the living room.

Iflyfish

Mengano - 11-24-2011 at 04:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
I think that the difference lies in how one defines violence. Is the invasion of a foreign nation without provocation considered violence?


Are you talking about the German invasion of Poland in 1939? The Iraqi invasion of Iran in 1980? The Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990? The Japanese invasion of China in 1937? The Russian invasion of Afghanistan in 1979? Or some other invasion?
Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
Is having the highest per capita prison population in the world considered violence?


Isn't imprisoning lawbreakers a method to prevent violence? Isn't having a high per capita prison population and a low per capita crime rate an indication of an effective law enforcement system?

DENNIS - 11-24-2011 at 04:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
I think that the difference lies in how one defines violence.


I used to define it by the amount of blood on my shirt. Have things changed? :?:

JESSE - 11-24-2011 at 04:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mengano
Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
I think that the difference lies in how one defines violence. Is the invasion of a foreign nation without provocation considered violence?


Are you talking about the German invasion of Poland in 1939? The Iraqi invasion of Iran in 1980? The Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990? The Japanese invasion of China in 1937? The Russian invasion of Afghanistan in 1979? Or some other invasion?
Quote:
Originally posted by Iflyfish
Is having the highest per capita prison population in the world considered violence?


Isn't imprisoning lawbreakers a method to prevent violence? Isn't having a high per capita prison population and a low per capita crime rate an indication of an effective law enforcement system?


Hey Chuck? don't you have a job since you got laid off? or a girlfriend since the last one dumped you?? does your Rabbi know what you do all day and the type of hate and bitterness you spew all day??

Mengano - 11-24-2011 at 04:33 PM

Hey Chuy! Does this post sound a little too negative on Mexico and Mexicans to you?

JESSE - 11-24-2011 at 04:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mengano
Hey Chuy! Does this post sound a little too negative on Mexico and Mexicans to you?



I don't feed trolls Charles, so tell us what happened with your ex latina wife who dumped you?? why are you so bitter towards Mexicans? did she take all the money? ran away with the milk man?

Bajahowodd - 11-24-2011 at 04:53 PM

From Deno's link-

"The USA now leads all nations in violent crime and leads all nations with incarcerations now standing at 2.3 million. American citizens also make up the greatest number of criminals serving time in overseas prisons."

One ought also to consider that the US prison system is virtually devoid of any real rehabilitation programs. Therefore, a first time prisoner, who may actually be there for a victimless crime, will more likely than not, exit prison more hardcore than when they entered.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Mengano - 11-24-2011 at 05:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
tell us what happened with your ex latina wife who dumped you??


When you get your information from Jihad Salman, you end up looking like a fool to the world. Which in your case, is not hard to do. So keep it up. My wife is in the kitchen cooking Turkey with her sisters and nieces. If you know where to look, you could even find a picture of her on the internet that was taken today in the kitchen. The kitchen happens to be bigger than the one in the famous Tres Putones restaurant.

For more information on looking foolish look here.

JESSE - 11-24-2011 at 06:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mengano
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
tell us what happened with your ex latina wife who dumped you??


When you get your information from Jihad Salman, you end up looking like a fool to the world. Which in your case, is not hard to do. So keep it up. My wife is in the kitchen cooking Turkey with her sisters and nieces. If you know where to look, you could even find a picture of her on the internet that was taken today in the kitchen. The kitchen happens to be bigger than the one in the famous Tres Putones restaurant.

For more information on looking foolish look here.


I know for a fact:

1.-Your not married

2.-You where dumped by your latina ex

3.-Your bitter about it

4.-Your children wont talk to you

5.-You lost a ton of money

And MANY, many more things Charles. I ca do far more in dept research that you could ever imagine thanks to my sources in both sides of the border.

Keep it up and the whole board is going to kow everything about you, as well as your friends.

Mengano - 11-24-2011 at 06:29 PM

The only thing they will know are the lies told by one BajaNomad who used the name "Josie", and repeated dozens more times by an Ay-rab who claims to be a Mexican and who enjoys the company of transvestites. You really know how to pick your friends. I guess nobody showed up for Thanksgiving dinner at Los Tres Putones, as you have plenty of time to post on the internet.

I hope you washed your hands.

Woooosh - 11-24-2011 at 07:04 PM

Man- this thread is a roller coaster ride through psychosis park....

Iflyfish - 11-24-2011 at 08:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Man- this thread is a roller coaster ride through psychosis park....


Yup!

Over and out.

Iflyfish

vgabndo - 11-25-2011 at 03:47 AM

FULANO...you can TOO lose at FreeCell. I do 23% of the time.
Over and out.:no:

deportes - 11-25-2011 at 08:33 AM

Great stories posted! Who is going to write the script for the Baja movie?

vivaloha - 11-25-2011 at 10:31 AM

wow...i just read page 4 of this wild up and down dialogue and i want to thank Mr. Fly Fisher because he just illuminated the concepts of psychological phenomena...victim, persecutor and rescuer and how they game up, switch out and change...very interesting...that was a sweet little tidbit for us non-psychologist types...

i know this thread has totally degenerated into harshness, of which I don't care to participate, but I did want to thank the kind doctor for giving us some food for thought...

just keeping it happy and learning along the way...

oh and regarding all the negative postings about Mexico...keeping it simple...there's a ying and yang to all places, people, trends...things...just sometimes its more black (negativity, problems, obscurity etc..) and sometimes more white (positivity, light, good)...so there will always be both...

thanks for the psychology lesson of the day Fly Fisher...and good luck to all who choose to travel the varied roads of baja this winter...

VA

Mengano - 11-25-2011 at 11:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
FULANO...you can TOO lose at FreeCell. I do 23% of the time.
Over and out.:no:


Ryan L. Miller, with the help of others explored 100 million FreeCell games, with a total of 1282 being unsolvable. This gives FreeCell a win rate of about 99.998718%.

Cypress - 11-25-2011 at 11:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by vivaloha
oh and regarding all the negative postings about Mexico...keeping it simple...there's a ying and yang to all places,
VA

Yep, on one side people are catching fish, partying and having a good time and on the other they're killing each other. Saw where they killed 50 in two days, stuffed the bodies in cars. Overall, Baja is as safe as most places north of the border.

Mengano - 11-25-2011 at 11:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Overall, Baja is as safe as most places north of the border.


No, it is not, as shown by crime statistics published by Mexicans in Mexico. It has four-to-five times the crime as north of the border.

Cypress - 11-25-2011 at 11:43 AM

Statistics? Major crime? Petty crime? Crimes of violence? Victimless crimes? That crime chart was probably drawn up by the same crew that did the Global Warming charts.:light:

Mengano - 11-25-2011 at 11:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Statistics? Major crime? Petty crime? Crimes of violence? Victimless crimes? That crime chart was probably drawn up by the same crew that did the Global Warming charts.:light:


Yes, of course. CIDAC, the Executive Secretary of the National Public Security System of Mexico, CONAPO, ICESA and the FBI are all unreliable sources. Instead we should just rely on your casual observations.

When confronted with irrefutable evidence that you are wrong, attack the evidence. What else can you do?

"If the glove don't fit, you must acquit."

[Edited on 11-25-2011 by Mengano]

Ricardo - 11-25-2011 at 11:52 AM

Good one Cypress, Charts and graphs really don't mean much.
Check out this site.
http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Mexico/United-States/Cri...

Mengano - 11-25-2011 at 11:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ricardo
Good one Cypress, Charts and graphs really don't mean much.
Check out this site.
http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Mexico/United-States/Cri...


SOURCES: The Eighth United Nations Survey on Crime Trends and the Operations of Criminal Justice Systems (2002)

2002? Do you have any statistics from 1954 you want to show us?

Cypress - 11-25-2011 at 12:05 PM

The United Nations? Give me a break. That's a classic example of the word "disfunctional".:D

Mengano - 11-25-2011 at 12:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
The United Nations? Give me a break. That's a classic example of the word "disfunctional".:D


I could not agree more. :o

wessongroup - 11-25-2011 at 12:39 PM

How about a turkey sandwich... the best part of the day after... just saying

great discussion ... thanks... great break from Netflix.. :biggrin::biggrin:

DENNIS - 11-25-2011 at 12:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
The United Nations? Give me a break. That's a classic example of the word "disfunctional".:D


Or...nonfunctional.
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