BajaNomad

Our remote phone solution

astrobaja - 11-24-2011 at 10:28 AM

Well its been 3 years of experimenting with different combos, but finally we have a cell phone signal down at our house! We have a small hill about 500 feet from our house that had a weak telcel signal, and on some days with a good cell phone (some have decent internal antennae some have crappy ones) you could call out.

So the idea was to try boosting this signal (from Camalu) with various antennas and amps. The thought was to amplify the signal and then beam it down towards the house with a 2nd dish. This worked initialy but the 2 antennae fed back on each other causing the amp to shut down. 2nd idea was to use a fixed wireless terminal and a long range wireless phone box to give a cell signal but the FWT's never worked in our area even though they did in the Ensenada area. The info we got was that some areas the FWT's do not work.

So we looked around for other higher quality amps that reset after being overloaded. Wilson makes one that works with the 1900 MHz telcel system. Its pricey (like around $500) but this one finally did the trick, full bars on the Iphone (which has a notoriously bad internal antenna). So we can use our Telcel plan to call out instead of the much more $$ per minute card method!

This could work for anyone on the fringe of a reception area if you need a list of the components used I can supply it for you. We were lucky that my Wifes brother does high end electronics for yachts in the SD area so he put it together for us!

Heres the Wilson amp we used:

http://www.wilsonelectronics.com/ProductDetails.aspx?Product...

[Edited on 11-24-2011 by BajaNomad]

phonebooth.jpg - 45kB

astrobaja - 11-24-2011 at 10:32 AM

the inside of the weatherproof electronics box, the black box is not being used it was back when we were trying the fixed wireless terminal route. Its just the charge controller for the small solar panel and the blue Wilson amp.

box.jpg - 29kB

astrobaja - 11-24-2011 at 10:35 AM

this is the 2nd antenna (28 Db I think) which beams the signal down and towards our house. A 100 ft thick shielded cable runs from the amp site to this antenna.

antenna.jpg - 37kB

Udo - 11-24-2011 at 10:50 AM

I clicked on your link, but the page no longer exists.
Can you update it please?

GRACIAS

Mengano - 11-24-2011 at 10:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by astrobaja
So the idea was to try boosting this signal (from Camalu) with various antennas and amps. The thought was to amplify the signal and then beam it down towards the house with a 2nd dish. This worked initialy but the 2 antennae fed back on each other causing the amp to shut down.


It seems to me a more elegant, and cheaper, solution would be to just run 500 feet of coax from your antenna site to the house and terminate it with another antenna in the house to re-radiate the cell phone signal in your house. You would place an rf amp at the antenna site and power it with DC from the house, using the same coax to carry the DC. There should be no feedback problem at that distance.

capt. mike - 11-24-2011 at 11:03 AM

why have cell?
if you have computer via sat can't you use skype vonnage OOMA or any of the internet based phones?

astrobaja - 11-24-2011 at 11:22 AM

Udo try this you need to cut and paste the bottom part of the url, but try this tinyurl: http://tinyurl.com/7suee7s

Mengano: probably because with the 5-600 feet needed there would be about a 35-40 db loss in gain. Plus its really rocky up on the hill it would be really tough to bury the cable. Too many unwanted cattle in the area too!

Mike: Skype/Magic Jack don't work worth a @#$% using Sat internet. Actually the Iphone Viber app works better than any of them, still lots of dropout, weird compression artifacts and bad intelligbility.

Mengano - 11-24-2011 at 11:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by astrobaja
Mengano: probably because with the 5-600 feet needed there would be about a 35-40 db loss in gain.


The airwave propagation loss would be at least twice that. That is what the rf amp is for.

astrobaja - 11-24-2011 at 11:56 AM

"airwave propogation"? Hmmm sounds like a load of feotid dingos kidneys to me I think you just might be talking out of your posterior region:biggrin:

I think my brother in law knows perhaps just a bit more than you do! His last few jobs have been on Americas Cup boats!

Note to self ignore posts by Mengano

JESSE - 11-24-2011 at 12:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by astrobaja


Note to self ignore posts by Mengano


:lol:

Mengano - 11-24-2011 at 12:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by astrobaja
I think my brother in law knows perhaps just a bit more than you do! His last few jobs have been on Americas Cup boats!

Note to self ignore posts by Mengano


I'm not sure how you would know that, since you do not know what I know. Does your brother-in-law have a 1st Class FCC license and a ship radar endorsement, like me? You have already tried to blow smoke by simply stating the signal loss is too great with a coax cable run. Did your brother-in-law tell you that?

When an rf signal is transmitted from a simple antenna, the signal radiates in all directions. It actually radiates in a half-sphere shape with the Earth as the flat part. Since you are ignoring me, I'll just explain it for everybody else. It is easy to visualize that as the sphere of the rf signal radiates from the antenna, the rf power at any one spot decreases geometrically. That is because the same amount of power transmitted at the antenna has to fill an ever-increasing volume of space.

However, when the same rf energy is run through a coax cable, the energy is contained within the cable. The coax cable is also far less prone to interference from other sources, as it is insulated. The coax can also be fed through concrete buildings and other obstacles that would attenuate a rf signal over the air.

goldhuntress - 11-24-2011 at 01:07 PM

You can use Skype, Viber, or whatever to make calls but unless the signal is good it's very frustrating. I don't live in Baja I just travel there and so I don't mind Skype and Viber just to check in but if I lived there I would definitely be happy to get a good cell signal in my home. Congratulations on that, it's pretty cool:)

mcfez - 11-24-2011 at 01:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Quote:
Originally posted by astrobaja


Note to self ignore posts by Mengano


:lol:


:light::light::light::light::light::light::light::light::light::light::light::light:


Mengano .....you do really bad Photoshop. Is this as good as you advice?

[Edited on 11-24-2011 by mcfez]

JESSE - 11-24-2011 at 01:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mengano
Quote:
Originally posted by astrobaja
I think my brother in law knows perhaps just a bit more than you do! His last few jobs have been on Americas Cup boats!

Note to self ignore posts by Mengano


I'm not sure how you would know that, since you do not know what I know. Does your brother-in-law have a 1st Class FCC license and a ship radar endorsement, like me? You have already tried to blow smoke by simply stating the signal loss is too great with a coax cable run. Did your brother-in-law tell you that?

When an rf signal is transmitted from a simple antenna, the signal radiates in all directions. It actually radiates in a half-sphere shape with the Earth as the flat part. Since you are ignoring me, I'll just explain it for everybody else. It is easy to visualize that as the sphere of the rf signal radiates from the antenna, the rf power at any one spot decreases geometrically. That is because the same amount of power transmitted at the antenna has to fill an ever-increasing volume of space.

However, when the same rf energy is run through a coax cable, the energy is contained within the cable. The coax cable is also far less prone to interference from other sources, as it is insulated. The coax can also be fed through concrete buildings and other obstacles that would attenuate a rf signal over the air.



Dont feed the troll:lol:

Mengano - 11-24-2011 at 03:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE

Dont feed the troll:lol:


...or the cocinero.

willardguy - 11-24-2011 at 05:10 PM

very interesting! how many miles do you estimate between the cell tower in camalu and your house?

john68 - 11-24-2011 at 08:56 PM

if you meet the criteria, another possibility would be a satellite phone.

Until normal circumstances, the cost is prohibitive, but I'm told there's a new federal program in the U.S. that subsidizes satellite phones if you live in part of the country that doesn't have cell phone service. It's available in Texas now and I'm told it will be rolled out in other states in January.

It's a lease deal and the phone is an Iridium. The cost is a one-time $50 activation and $10/month for 300 minutes, less expensive than cell phones. No other charges to call a U.S. number. International charges apply if you call a number in another country.

Unlike a cell phone, you must use an external antenna (provided) if you want to use it inside your car or home.

Roberto - 11-24-2011 at 09:24 PM

Wilson is definitely one of the premiere sellers of this type of equipment. I and many others have excellent experience with them, and they have expanded into the cellular-repeater are for years now. Sounds like a good choice to me!

I have an Amateur Extra license, and have for at least a few years now, hope that allows me to express an opinion!

He has found a solution that works for him. He is informing others who may have similar needs. Not sure that requires additional comments, suggestions on his setup ... if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Roberto - 11-24-2011 at 09:30 PM

Quote:
When an rf signal is transmitted from a simple antenna, the signal radiates in all directions


What about a Yagi?

Mengano - 11-24-2011 at 11:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Roberto
Quote:
When an rf signal is transmitted from a simple antenna, the signal radiates in all directions


What about a Yagi?


Simple antenna was the theory. The most gain you can get from a Yagi is about 10dB, and they are very directional, which is not good for a cell phone installation. In addition, Yagi's are only good over a narrow bandwidth. Cellphones operate between 800 and 1900 MHz. You couldn't tune a Yagi to handle multiple frequencies.

Most everyone reading this is getting their internet signal through miles of coax cable with no problem.

Bob and Susan - 11-25-2011 at 06:51 AM

can you make this simpleer for us "simpletons"

you have a repeater antenna with some kind of solar power source
and another antenna
or
just a repeater on a hill

then the cell phone works?

soooo
total cost?

is the source in the usa or in mexico

mulegejim - 11-25-2011 at 07:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by astrobaja
Udo try this you need to cut and paste the bottom part of the url, but try this tinyurl: http://tinyurl.com/7suee7s

Mengano: probably because with the 5-600 feet needed there would be about a 35-40 db loss in gain. Plus its really rocky up on the hill it would be really tough to bury the cable. Too many unwanted cattle in the area too!

Mike: Skype/Magic Jack don't work worth a @#$% using Sat internet. Actually the Iphone Viber app works better than any of them, still lots of dropout, weird compression artifacts and bad intelligbility.


Not sure it will help with your system and location but there is a Skype app for the Iphone - I use it on mine here in the states and it works great whether I am connected via the cell system or WiFi. Jim

capt. mike - 11-25-2011 at 09:07 AM

my nephew is in belgium. we were in phx yesterday.
we did video call with him yesterday, us on a HP laptop using wifi and him on his smart phone with skype app.

worked perfectly.

Roberto - 11-25-2011 at 09:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by capt. mike
my nephew is in belgium. we were in phx yesterday.
we did video call with him yesterday, us on a HP laptop using wifi and him on his smart phone with skype app.

worked perfectly.


Mike, what does any of that have to do with satellite Internet connections?

Skype, or any VoIP solution does not work well over, say, starband. Barely usable, actually, really can't have a normal conversation.

Hello. Over.
Hi mike. Over.
How are things down there. Over.

Im chatting works great.

Roberto - 11-25-2011 at 10:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mengano
Quote:
Originally posted by Roberto
Quote:
When an rf signal is transmitted from a simple antenna, the signal radiates in all directions


What about a Yagi?


Simple antenna was the theory. The most gain you can get from a Yagi is about 10dB, and they are very directional, which is not good for a cell phone installation. In addition, Yagi's are only good over a narrow bandwidth. Cellphones operate between 800 and 1900 MHz. You couldn't tune a Yagi to handle multiple frequencies.

Most everyone reading this is getting their internet signal through miles of coax cable with no problem.


You theory, correct? Aren't we talking about a specific use vs a generalized, public repeater system? There are plenty of signal booster systems sold that use Yagis. You have to buy the one for the cell system you're on. Anyway, I am now just arguing for it's own sake, so I'll just shut up.

FYI: http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/coaxperf.html

larryC - 11-25-2011 at 02:44 PM

I am sure that astrobaja has tried everything he can think of to have telephone in his remote location. It's pretty cool that he found something to make it work. I feel really fortunate that Magicjack works acceptablly for me down here in BoLA using Starbands $50 a month service. The times they are a changing and for the most part it just keeps getting better.
Larry

astrobaja - 11-26-2011 at 09:36 AM

Hi all,

Well like the thread title says this is "our" solution, there certainly could be others! We wanted to have reception all around our house so that any guests could use their cell if they wished. Since we are at 5000' elevation the nearest cell tower in Camalu is about 50 km away. Sometimes when theres a thick coastal marine layer the signal used to vary wildly.
For in the house we are going to get a blue tooth base station so we don't need to be at the window facing the hill to get a signal (our thick adobe walls work against us in terms of signal penetration).
Bob and Susan I don't know the total cost yet as my Brother in law sourced it all in San Diego. I imagine it will be around the $850 mark. Theres the 2 antennae, the battery, small charge controller, the electronics box, a thick cable, and the amp which is the big dollar item. If anyone wants a list and cost breakdown PM me and I will get it for you.

[Edited on 11-26-2011 by astrobaja]

Roberto - 11-26-2011 at 10:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by larryC
I am sure that astrobaja has tried everything he can think of to have telephone in his remote location. It's pretty cool that he found something to make it work. I feel really fortunate that Magicjack works acceptablly for me down here in BoLA using Starbands $50 a month service. The times they are a changing and for the most part it just keeps getting better.
Larry


Yep, you sure are. I have tried MagicJack on several Starband and Hughes systems in different locations in Baja. The best analogy I could use is that a personal conversation could work. A business call - no way.

Have you tried BGAN? Not necessarily that much faster down, but low latency. Supports video streaming (up) too. And it's a tiny terminal that can be set up in a new location in minutes with no additional equipment. Too bad it's so darn expensive, I'm hoping it will get cheaper.