BajaNomad

Beware of the hard sell at vacation resorts: hotel membership clubs

BajaNews - 12-3-2011 at 01:15 PM

http://overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/02/9149228-be...

By Jennifer Alsever

Get ready for the hard sell if you’re vacationing in Mexico. The nation’s biggest hotel chains are aggressively pushing travelers to join their “hotel membership clubs,” the latest iteration of the vacation timeshare.

Mexican salesmen approach tourists at the airport and in hotel lobbies under the guise of helping them get a taxi or offering concierge services. They offer free car rentals and discounted snorkeling trips to anyone willing to sit through a 90-minute sales pitch, which is akin to buying a new car.

“It’s high-pressure sales 101,” says Ed Perkins, a contributing editor for SmarterTravel.com. “Some of these are borderline scams. All this stuff is really time-shares in drag.”

In the past few years, tourists have been approached with these hotel club programs in Mexico, on Caribbean islands and in Hawaii.

Last year, Gabe Saglie was offered a free whale-watching cruise at the Westin Hotel in Maui if he attended a sales presentation. As senior editor of Travelzoo.com, which publishes travel and local deals, Saglie had heard of the programs — complete with the uncomfortable pitches — and said he wasn’t interested.

“It wasn’t a smart use of my time on my vacation,” he says. “I like the freedom of going to different places. But for some people, it works. If you go to these places often it can be a value."

Don’t be surprised to see these pitches become even more prevalent during the difficult economy. Mexico has been particularly affected in the past two years, suffering tourism hits from the swine flu outbreak, drug cartel violence and the economic recession. Occupancy rates have dipped 30 percent to 60 percent.

"They basically have rooms sitting empty and real estate sitting empty, so Mexico is pushing them extremely hard," says Jeff Lugosi, who follows Mexico's travel market as senior vice president at Colliers PKF Consulting USA in Los Angeles.

Salespeople for the Mexican hotel chain Park Royal Hotels & Resorts now hit up travelers in Cancun, Cozumel, Mazatlan, Los Cabos, Ixtapa and Puerto Vallarta to join its Royal Holiday club. They tell tourists that for about $16,000, people can buy points good for future trips at the hotel chain’s all-inclusive hotels in Mexico, trips on cruise ships and affiliated hotels across the world.

The program is the opposite of a traditional hotel loyalty program, which give points to members when they stay at the hotel and let them cash them in for rooms, upgrades and frequent flier miles.

Perkins warns that any program that asks you to pay for something in advance should raise a red flag for tourists — especially if it’s during a high-pressure sales pitch. “Anytime you’re talking about ‘investing’ $5,000, $10,000, $15,000, the chances are at best it’s a bad buy and at worst you’ll find it’s a disaster,” he says.

In these hotel clubs, people do not buy any assets, and they could end up buying something they may not use or they may not like, Perkins says. The club may also limit where the travelers can go or change the rules or fees at any time.

Park Royal Hotels & Resorts officials were unavailable to comment. The company’s Royal Holiday club lets members roll over unused points from one year to the next and exchange them for free hotel rooms. Food and drinks at the all-inclusive resorts can cost an additional $60 to $80 per person per day. As incentives to join, the Park Royal offers potential members financing for the fees and may throw in $1,000 toward airfare.

Perkins advises travelers to avoid the sales presentations altogether and not be lured by the freebie incentives to attend. The presentations may drag on longer than you want if you politely say “no.”

“You’re on vacation to relax, and it’s not worth the aggravation and pressure,” he says. “Even if you like the idea of a timeshare, that’s not the way to buy it.”

sancho - 12-3-2011 at 01:45 PM

My brother in law returned from the Cape a few yrs.
back, with not 1 but 2 Timeshares. Was sold on the
claim that they would RENT it out if not used, and
that would cover the purchase price. I didn't think
anyone but Baja struck tourists from the Mid West
bought them. There was a post here about being
able to get them for FREE from the owners,
looking to bail out from under the contract,
just take it over and pay the yearly Maintance fee
I've had a couple mild verbal battles with these
sales guys, not wanting to take no for an answer

[Edited on 12-3-2011 by sancho]

Islandbuilder - 12-3-2011 at 02:18 PM

Several years ago, some folks I built a house for invited my wife and I to join them in their time share in Cabo. He accepted (on my behalf, thank you) an invitation to attend a time share presentation accompanied with a free buffet breakfast.
When our assigned sales guy wouldn't take our emphatic no, so I used my secret weapon: I started talking loudly about how I had just seen the $20,000 unit he was trying to sell us on eBay for $1,500 OBO. He couldn't get us out of there fast enough! Once more through the fresh fruit line, and we were outta there.

Dave - 12-3-2011 at 04:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sancho
There was a post here about being
able to get them for FREE from the owners,
looking to bail out from under the contract,
just take it over and pay the yearly Maintance fee


I know folks who would gladly PAY to have someone take a timeshare off their hands. Have a friend who tried every which way to sell, gift or surrender. He found a wino with a SS# and paid him a hundred bucks to sign off.

Mengano - 12-3-2011 at 05:47 PM

A message lifted from TripAdvisor:
Quote:
Jul 25, 2011, 1:31 PM

I spoke about this with some local friends the past two weeks when I was in PV and promised I would post the info as soon as I returned. They all felt it was vital for those who will be visiting in the very near future, and a very good update for those of us who have been there before.

The timeshare gauntlet at the airport that all arrivals must pass through in order to reach your taxis, private transfers, private pick ups, etc. has now developed a new ploy in which to try and ensnare unsuspecting travelers, so this is very much a warning of what to look out for.

The previously gaily painted tropical walls and myriad of colourful golf shirted timeshare resort employees working in this gauntlet - all gone. Replaced by blank walls, bare counters, and the same said employees now all dressed identically...and in a very similar style to the actual legitimate airport employees at PVR. Dark pants, pale blue shirts. Many will be carrying clipboards with what they are trying to make look like official manifests of arriving passengers at PVR...but on closer inspection appear to be not much more than Excel spreadsheets filled with random information made to look like an official checklist of some kind.

What they are now doing is telling arrivals that they are with PVR airport security, and that you are not allowed to leave this area without providing them with your hotel/resort/condo information, how long you will be staying, and how you will be traveling to your accommodations. They are now being VERY aggressive and demanding people stop, that they cannot pass, and are waving the clipboards in your face if you don't. Even as a long time seasoned PV traveler, I was somewhat thrown by this new approach, but I did not stop. The employee that tried to stop me was simply told that if in fact he WAS legitimately airport security, then he could stop me by force. Of course he did not.

While this gauntlet has always been a disturbing even if somewhat benign part of the "PV experience" on arrivals, this new overly aggressive, flat out lying about status is highly disturbing to me, and completely and totally unethical if not illegal (I can't speak to the legalities of masquerading as a federal official in Mexico but I can't imagine it's overlooked). There were many people that came out of that space very upset and quite flummoxed by it.

Time shares

C-Urchin - 12-3-2011 at 09:51 PM

I am in La Paz and quite often we get guests who need to come in Los Cabos airport. I warn them well.

1- Don't make eye contact
2- Don't go to any 90 minute presentation/no strings attached they say may help the poor, the old or the orphans...
3- Start an loud argument between yourselves to deflect the attention
4- Beware of dogs, they also sell doggie time shares, even to cats!
5- Get in the car quick and drive off!

I hope that crap never comes to La Paz.

BobY - 12-25-2011 at 12:04 AM

Islandbuilder, that's hilarious. And Dave, great idea. Did your friend also take out a life insurance policy on said wino? (Just kidding.)

I went to a presentation and it was fascinating to observe the techniques used by the sales people. They know some serious hypnotic techniques, primarily trying to take over your brain by hammering in key points with nearly constant talking. Seeing how these folks were manipulating people, I was feeling downright homicidal. And there were thousands of complaints about them to the government. I'm sure they pay some solid money to the right people to stay in business. This was in Cancun. Nasty!

Phil S - 12-25-2011 at 12:25 AM

I think yelling 'securitidad' or however it's spelled (David K. can help me here) several times at Cabo San Lucas airport if they won't leave you alone very loud, should shake them off you. And if security does come to your rescue, tell them you are being harrassed!!!!!! If someone tries this, please let us know how well it worked. Might be a new trend!!!!!!

Packoderm - 12-25-2011 at 01:34 AM

We went to one of these way back and it was a HARD sell. The sales agent became very angry that we would not buy, and we ended up leaving without getting any of the freebees offered.

Bajafun777 - 12-25-2011 at 02:11 AM

Yes Time Shares have hard sells but also buyers can be hard negotiators by knowing what the real going price should be on a specific Time Share. I own several and happy with them, as we use them by trading them and staying in many places throughout the United States, Mexico, Caribbean and Canada. It is your choice to use it to its full potential or get nothing by doing nothing with it. I own Time Shares which others want to go to due to them being Gold Crown and all by the beaches.

I try to have my favorites close by to use the bonus time (which means I get a room other than my week for about $60 a night in Carlsbad), bank my Time Share weeks which allows me to link them up for 3 or 4 weeks in places outside of the USA for really relaxing vacations. Additionally, this gives us time to visit most places of interest in or around the area we are visiting. The trick is to know everything about utilizing them to their best value and making sure you never let them go unused. Started doing Time Shares over 27 years ago and no I don't regret them at all.

Have had my family, relatives and best friends enjoy some of the best places in really nice safe resorts,to which they all have a great time. Never buy anything you cannot afford along with never buy something you have not discussed prior to ever going to a Time Share presentation. I would never resale one of my timeshares, all have property deeds with them and I deduct property tax on them also. They will be given to my boys,whol love to go places with us for free since all of our Time Shares are paid for. Just airfare or driving expenses to get there. Ah, Life is sweet and RETIREMENT makes it sweeter,LOL. Take Care & Travel Safe---- "No Hurry, No worry, Just FUN" bajafun777

Phil S - 12-29-2011 at 10:13 PM

777. We've been doing timeshares for over 20+ years, and feel the same way as you do. Ex: two weeks fixed time Cabo. Pueblo bonito Sunset Beach. And ownership with them allows you useage of their 'adults only" resort called The Pacifica, and downtown two others called Rose & Blanco. You can charge at their facilities (not lodging) and it gets to P.B. Sunset Beach right away. Our other is WorldMark/Wyndham. It's all over, and we use it extensively when we are traveling. different strokes for different folks!!

Mengano - 12-29-2011 at 10:53 PM

Don't go to Mexico without one of these.

Trip Advisor...

EnsenadaDr - 12-29-2011 at 11:22 PM

Don't you think that people trying to promote their business and destroy another will have fake cybernames and write horrible reviews...I don't much trust Trip Advisor...speaking of making up cybernames...hmmmmm....
Quote:
Originally posted by Mengano
A message lifted from TripAdvisor:

Quote:
Jul 25, 2011, 1:31 PM

I spoke about this with some local friends the past two weeks when I was in PV and promised I would post the info as soon as I returned. They all felt it was vital for those who will be visiting in the very near future, and a very good update for those of us who have been there before.

The timeshare gauntlet at the airport that all arrivals must pass through in order to reach your taxis, private transfers, private pick ups, etc. has now developed a new ploy in which to try and ensnare unsuspecting travelers, so this is very much a warning of what to look out for.

The previously gaily painted tropical walls and myriad of colourful golf shirted timeshare resort employees working in this gauntlet - all gone. Replaced by blank walls, bare counters, and the same said employees now all dressed identically...and in a very similar style to the actual legitimate airport employees at PVR. Dark pants, pale blue shirts. Many will be carrying clipboards with what they are trying to make look like official manifests of arriving passengers at PVR...but on closer inspection appear to be not much more than Excel spreadsheets filled with random information made to look like an official checklist of some kind.

What they are now doing is telling arrivals that they are with PVR airport security, and that you are not allowed to leave this area without providing them with your hotel/resort/condo information, how long you will be staying, and how you will be traveling to your accommodations. They are now being VERY aggressive and demanding people stop, that they cannot pass, and are waving the clipboards in your face if you don't. Even as a long time seasoned PV traveler, I was somewhat thrown by this new approach, but I did not stop. The employee that tried to stop me was simply told that if in fact he WAS legitimately airport security, then he could stop me by force. Of course he did not.

While this gauntlet has always been a disturbing even if somewhat benign part of the "PV experience" on arrivals, this new overly aggressive, flat out lying about status is highly disturbing to me, and completely and totally unethical if not illegal (I can't speak to the legalities of masquerading as a federal official in Mexico but I can't imagine it's overlooked). There were many people that came out of that space very upset and quite flummoxed by it.

Mengano - 12-30-2011 at 12:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Don't you think that people trying to promote their business and destroy another will have fake cybernames and write horrible reviews..


It's more likely they or their sycophants will pimp their businesses while at the same time writing horrible reviews of the competition. Here's BajaNomad OXXO and former BajaNomad Jesse working the crowd for Jesse's restaurant.

Bajafun777 - 12-30-2011 at 01:48 AM

Phil S, We also have timeshare at Pueblo Bonito Sunset Beach and love it along with the other timeshares by it. The adult only one lets you relax without kids screaming and yelling, which is great for peace and quite when one wants it. We like kids but sometimes we just like peace and quite!! Again, timeshares are not for everyone and unless you can do them with straining your budget DO NOT DO THEM!! I do not sell timeshares nor do I really know anyone that does, excluding the salepeople that sold us ours. Take Care & Travel Safe---"No Hurry, No Worry, Just FUN" bajafun777

Splitting hairs..

EnsenadaDr - 12-30-2011 at 07:40 AM

Come on Mengy, that is what I was saying...or didn't I grammatically state it correctly??? Why did you have to restate what I wrote...by the way, who are you and what is your real name???
Quote:
Originally posted by Mengano
Quote:
Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Don't you think that people trying to promote their business and destroy another will have fake cybernames and write horrible reviews..


It's more likely they or their sycophants will pimp their businesses while at the same time writing horrible reviews of the competition. Here's BajaNomad OXXO and former BajaNomad Jesse working the crowd for Jesse's restaurant.

But timeshares are such a good investment?

durrelllrobert - 12-30-2011 at 12:13 PM

Nobody in their right mind invests in a depreciating asset and expects to sell it for a gain years later. Timeshare sales representatives used to push timeshares as a great investment in years past, but due to numerous complaints they no longer do this outright. This doesn't stop them from trying to link timeshare and investment together. Many timeshare salespeople will use subtle wording to give the impression that purchasing a timeshare is a good financial move. It's common for a timeshare to be referred to as a "life-quality investment" to make it sound like a timeshare is a good investment. If you fail to listen carefully to the way the timeshare sales representative talks, you can easily believe that a timeshare is a good financial investment when nothing could be farther from the truth and most people that want out sell their unit or points for 50% off. Even after they get rid of it they still have to pay the maintenance fees. And, speaking of maintenace fees these average $850/year and even in resort areas you can find a nice house for around $850/month

Mengano - 12-30-2011 at 12:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Nobody in their right mind invests in a depreciating asset and expects to sell it for a gain years later. Timeshare sales representatives used to push timeshares as a great investment in years past, but due to numerous complaints they no longer do this outright. This doesn't stop them from trying to link timeshare and investment together. Many timeshare salespeople will use subtle wording to give the impression that purchasing a timeshare is a good financial move. It's common for a timeshare to be referred to as a "life-quality investment" to make it sound like a timeshare is a good investment. If you fail to listen carefully to the way the timeshare sales representative talks, you can easily believe that a timeshare is a good financial investment when nothing could be farther from the truth and most people that want out sell their unit or points for 50% off. Even after they get rid of it they still have to pay the maintenance fees. And, speaking of maintenace fees these average $850/year and even in resort areas you can find a nice house for around $850/month


It is actually illegal to tout a timeshare as a "financial investment" in the US. If violates SEC rules on registered securities.

Barry A. - 12-30-2011 at 12:41 PM

Time-Shares as "life quality investments" seems to be right-on to me---------nobody I know ever expected to make any money on their Time Share if they did their homework-------never forget the phrase, "buyer beware". But they sure got a kick out of them while they owned them.

It's an interesting business, and makes the sellers lots of money-------what else is new?

Personally, I wouldn't touch one---------we AWAYS "rent" houses in the areas we intend to stay more than say 3-days. Tons of "houses" available on the Net for rent, almost everywhere, and when you are travelling with friends and family you can split the "rent"-------mucho cheap, and lots of fun (IMO).

Barry

JoeJustJoe - 12-30-2011 at 12:41 PM

Timeshares aren't only in Mexico. Timeshares are at many resort like vacation spots.

I get harassed by time share representatives all the time when visiting Hawaii and especially Las Vegas where I often travel too often. Many times the time share salesmen aren't up front about their great deals that are always tied to their time share presentation.

I have had very good deals from Time Share presentations in Mexico, espeically in Cabo San Lucas where they once gave me a $100 dollar bill to hear their presentation. ( I pretty much earned the money defending against their hard sell tactics usually from some ex-pat American.)

I know people who just love to go to time share presentations just to get the freebies and they have no problem saying no. The secret is to let them know they have no chance with you, and they will just about throw you out the door, but you still get their freebie, free or low cost show tickets.

NEWS FLASH:

durrelllrobert - 12-30-2011 at 01:18 PM

Timeshares aren't only in Mexico. Timeshares are at many resort like vacation spots.
________________________________________________ Thanks for info :lol::lol: