BajaNomad - The fish are gone

The fish are gone

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motoged - 12-17-2011 at 11:21 AM

My first motorcycle trip to Baja was in January 1995. A month of exploring was punctuated by a day-trip from Loreto to Agua Verde.

Once down from the winding mountain road, I looked around the first clutch of houses wondering if there was a small tienda of any sort, as I was hungry. I spotted a few plastic pop crates outside a palapa-thatched casita and figured maybe it was a commercial establishment of some sort...so I approached it and was greeted by a somewhat shy/cautious woman in her early 30's. My Spanish skills were terrible, but I managed to get her to understand a comida was what I hoped for. I asked for "pescado con mojo de ajo", but was told "no pescado...solo pollo".

Well that suited me and I sat at an outside table and waited for that all to happen. As Baja was still a hugely new adventure for me, I was quite happy to sit, look around, and watch the chickens and cats saunter around, watched a few people doing their chores in nearby homes, and enjoyed the cooking smells wafting out of her simple kitchen.

I was in heaven.

After a while, the woman brought out some fried chicken, beans, and some tomatoes and shredded cabbage...as well as some fresh but greasy harina tortillas. I was in heaven and being fed....hard to beat that.

As I was eating, the woman's daughter was curious and came over to sit across from me at the worn plank table. She seemed to have a cold as she kept sniffing. Our conversation was limited due to my limited Spanish skills, but it was determined that she was 13 years old, no longer went to school as she had completed the first 7 years, and stayed at home now. When asked if she had a "catarh" (my sense of the Spanish word for "a cold" based on my reading of billboard ads), she shyly smiled and explained that it was the salsa she was eating with her own tortillas that was giving her the sniffles. We both saw the humour in this part of our conversation and shared a laugh.

This was one of my first-ever prolonged conversations/sit-downs with a local as I was only about 10 days into my trip (and because I was more of an observer than a participant as a traveller) .....and it warmed my heart a great deal.

During the course of my sitting at the table, the woman's husband came by, gave me a cautious glance, and proceeded to sharpen his rather large knife on a smooth stone the size of a shoe-box situated just outside the kitchen. He was slow and methodical with his task, punctuating his work with occasional glances my way. I had acknowledged him with a nod and a "Buenas tardes" (remember the limited language skills? :biggrin

I secretly wondered if he was "on task" with his work, curious about me and used the knife-sharpening as an excuse, or was showing me his big knife as a territorial statement....???

After I finished my meal and truncated conversation with their daughter, the mother took my plate away. I managed a conversation of sorts with her. What stands out in my mind about that conversation was her telling me that they were experiencing very hard times. As a fishing community, the decreasing fish stocks made it very difficult to make ends meet. Her husband had to move away for work for periods of time, sending very little money back home for the family. Because of that and his feeling depressed about his ability to provide for his family, he had developed an alcohol problem and was even less reliable.

The Sea of Cortez was no longer fruitful.

The romanticism of the situation deteriorated as I recognized their "simplicity" was poverty and suffering.

The woman's willingness to cook me a meal warmed my heart...

Their daughter's friendliness opened my heart more...

The story about no more fish broke my heart.

Yes, the fish are disappearing.

The ride back to Loreto had a much more somber tone to it that the excitement of the ride in.

DENNIS - 12-17-2011 at 12:13 PM

Sometimes I get the feeling that those who haven't been to Baja for twenty years should never plan on returning. Nothing today can compare to the memories of a more simple time here.

TMW - 12-17-2011 at 12:28 PM

It's not just the fish. Over the years I have seen many ranchos that once had families go vacant and it repeats it's self over and over. What is there today may be gone tomorrow and I wonder where they went and sometimes why.

capn.sharky - 12-17-2011 at 01:10 PM

True, the fishing isn't as good as it once was. This could be due to the currents in the Sea of Cortez. But---you can always find fish you just have to keep at it longer than before. December is always a slow month as the fishing is switching over to yellowtail. But there is always something to do in Loreto. Sit on the beaches, visit the islands or visit your Mexican friends. Go into town and spend some money, things are really tough right now but, the people are friendly and treat the tourists very well. The fish will return soon but it is always fun to be in Loreto.

sancho - 12-17-2011 at 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by motoged

I was in heaven.

The romanticism of the situation deteriorated as I recognized their "simplicity" was poverty and suffering.

The woman's willingness to cook me a meal warmed my heart...

Their daughter's friendliness opened my heart more...

The story about no more fish broke my heart.

Good stuff, my first yrs. so. Baja were in '83 and the majority spent on the
mainland, are great memories. learning a couple words
of Espanol each day and wearing them out. Travelling
by yourself opens you up to conversational moments
you would not have if you were travelling with another
person, makes you approachable to the casual Mex local.
My first real Baja beach time was at Muertos Bay, 40 mi
southeast of La Paz, those are irreplaceable times

vgabndo - 12-17-2011 at 02:09 PM

Nice Ged.

It reminds me of Rancho San Luis, and Jose and Lydia East of Laguna Juarez. The second time we rode our dirt bikes and brought them vegetable seeds and ammunition for their .22, and while we hiked out to the view from Salton Sea to the Gulf, they killed a goat in our honor.
Cow dung smoldered in tin cans to hold back the flies a little bit.

It was a beautiful formative moment for me sharing that precious meat with them.

Two weeks of recovery showed me that my system wasn't up to handling their level of sanitation, but the other gift, in retrospect, was worth it. It was my first look at life on the edge.

This would have been ...1970~

[Edited on 12-18-2011 by vgabndo]

Eugenio - 12-17-2011 at 02:40 PM

One of the most astute observations I've read on these boards - and entertaining. Thanks motoged.

bajario - 12-17-2011 at 02:59 PM

Great story 'Ged. I was taken south of the border to northern Baja as a kid with my parents. Very little memories remain. It wasn't until the last ten years did I venture further south, Loreto, Cabo, San Juanico.

If Baja is only half as great as it was twenty years ago, then the spell of the land is still powerful. My daydreams rarely venture to places other than Baja, well regarding land masses that is. There is always going to be change. Not all of it for the better. The memories I create with my family and for myself in Baja keep me going through the good times and bad. They inspire me to work my ass off so as I may one day call Baja home permanently.

Then stories like yours will be real for me at a much more consistent clip and I will always be grateful to be in such a place, where I can help if needed, put the fast paced life NOB behind me, and enjoy life for what it is. Not what it has become.

I may have 15-20+ years left before dream becomes reality. Well at least until my yougest turns 18 in 12.54 years.

Mengano - 12-17-2011 at 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by motoged
When asked if she had a "catarh" (my sense of the Spanish word for "a cold"...

catarro = common cold
catarrh = sinus inflamation

Skeet/Loreto - 12-17-2011 at 04:06 PM

Pleae do not get discourged! There are lots of Fish in the Great Sea of Cortez!!

do not listen to the Sierra Club bunch of Nuts.

Just look at the amount of Sardines that are being taken out up near Mulege. It has been going on for the last 40 years that I personally know about and have seen with my own Eyes.
I have also seen the Thousands of Tons of Squid taken out.
What you must understand is that Fish move in and out of the Sea of Cortez. And you must also understand that there is not near as many Fisherman especially around the loreto aera reporting the Number of Fish being Caught.

Fish move in and out of the Sea of Cortez depending sometimes on the very large Sardine s, sometimes on the Shrimp movement, sometimes on the Squid etc.
Just look at the Great Fishing on the pacific side this past year and then at the Great Fishing in the Mulege the last couple of years

I have fished the Sea of Cortez for 40 years, lived at Loreto for 18 years. The Fish will always come back!!!!

Skeet/Loreto,

skeet

captkw - 12-17-2011 at 05:08 PM

hola, I respectfuly disagree,, the state of the sea and the ocean's are going down fast,,I have trolled a lure from cabo to the sorcorro's thru the hawai island.s up to steward alaska,,have captain vessel's from alaska to costa rica,,my point being,,, I have got to talk to alot of folk's..... VHF,,,,S.S....,at the dock,,bar,,,and any place,, I have been the local's tell the same storey,,fishing is not,,,repeat not at all what was just a few year's ago,,I have the watched the boy's at la playita on the east cape score's since 77 and the size and number of fish is not down,,its fricking gone !! my folk's live on the shore north of the Gordo bank's and dont even listen to the panga channel anymore,,my dad say's it's to damn depressing for him any more//but this my opinon// yes a couple fish here and thier,,, but for me,I have seen a major decline in fish and I wished very much to see it get better and have a couple suggestion's on how we can all go about it..but I relize it's going to take a lot more than me b-tchin........K&T :cool:

[Edited on 12-18-2011 by captkw]

Cypress - 12-17-2011 at 05:25 PM

There're more fishermen than fish, too many nets, too many hooks. All anyone has to do is dive on some of the reefs, they're devoid of life. :no:

bajafam - 12-17-2011 at 05:31 PM

leave it to Skeet to bury his head in the sand about the state of the Sea. Ged's account shows the effect that it is having on the local fishermen, who rely upon it's abundance for their livelihood. Obviously, that abundance is suffering. Please stop with the inane rants about the fish....you reduce the people that are suffering to meaningless stories of lost souls.

captkw - 12-17-2011 at 07:18 PM

sorry,neptune made me do it "bump"

vgabndo - 12-17-2011 at 08:48 PM

It seems that as the writing on the wall becomes more clear in every language, the delusional become more fixated on miraculous salvation. Homo sapiens is in measurably deep trouble and its likely there's going to be a pretty big die-off in that species fairly soon too.

Good for the fish, and the humans too for that matter. Perhaps if the more rational of our species survive to breed and thrive on a planet with fewer demands on its resources, their slightly more evolved frontal lobes will help them decide to make the environment a bit more of a priority next time around. This, in my opinion, would be a good thing.

At one point I thought that HIV would be natures way of trimming the numbers, but we were too smart for it! Now I think it will probably be starvation pushed around by sectarian warfare. I hope I'm not around when our 8 billion piles of feces hit that earthshaking fan. Too bad it can't be all Norman Rockwell into the 24th. century or so.

Marc - 12-17-2011 at 08:53 PM

Thanks. I know. I was there before you. Going back to say hello after 21years this coming February....if they are there.

[Edited on 12-18-2011 by Marc]

Roberto - 12-17-2011 at 09:28 PM

What is REALLY sad is that often those same people who depend on the sea are partially responsible for its demise.

I am referring to the routine practice of gillnetting inshore areas, destroying fish stocks of many of the fish that are not pelagic.

Ignorance, lack of alternatives, call it what you will. It happens all over the world.

vag

captkw - 12-17-2011 at 10:04 PM

vagabundo,,let's

paranewbi - 12-18-2011 at 05:32 AM

After traveling 40+ years in Mexico and Central America....
Something will always be gone the next time you go back.
Nothing ever remains the same.
What you remember is dictated by your mood at the time.
You will always say...I'm sure glad I/we got to see it when...
And you will always say that after the next time
and this time.
Love hurts sometimes.

Let's make Frankenstein snakes too......

mcfez - 12-18-2011 at 06:51 AM

3 Delicious Animals We Charbroiled Into Extinction....... and 1 That Tasted Nasty But We Killed It Anyway

The Dodo
The Sea Cow
The Great Auk
The nasty Passenger Pigeon

Mankind has the honor of quite possibly being the most destructive force to ever hit mother nature. Whether by over hunting or over population, driving a species to extinction is nothing to be proud of and it’s certainly not slowing down.

Thylacine
Quagga
Passenger Pigeon
Golden Toad
Caribbean Monk Seal
Pyrenean Ibex
Bubal Hartebeest
Javan Tiger
Tecopa Pupfish
Baiji River Dolphi
Skeet/Loreto snakes that he relocated to a entirely new location.

I have fished Mexico, Belize, USA (ocean), and a dozen other countries. Four of these countries has reduced fisheries that is really alarming. Any doubt about the over fished oceans, is to read about the North Atlantic Cod. Hell...look at the California coast for fishing.....just about a joke.

Thank the Gods that the "Rip Van Winkle" Skeet/Loreto is not in charge of saving the whales.

Sign: One of those Sierra Club bunch of Nuts.

[Edited on 12-18-2011 by mcfez]

rip.jpg - 13kB

Skeet/Loreto - 12-18-2011 at 08:15 AM

If the Sea of Cortez is so Bad, Tell me , where did the present Great Number of Sardines come from

I have seen that same Operation on the Sea of Cortez for 40 years. Why do the Sardines keep coming back by the Millions??

why do we have cycles of Great Fishing like over on the Pacific coast as last year??

I am referring to the Sea of Cortez not Off shore of Monterey Calif, where supposedly the oceans Sardines were all caught 50 years ago.

Just keep in mind that many{Not all} of these Spokesman are Thieves!! They like to get People upset so that those People will send them Money so they can go on Trips.

Merry Christmas
.

MitchMan - 12-18-2011 at 08:22 AM

Been fishing BCS since 1986. Statistically, using my personal experience and observations as a sole random sample, I have only seen a marked reduction to fishing over the years, especially over that last five years.

I came to the Baja to fish because the waters off Southern California had very little decent fishing in the late 80s, you know, sand bass, calico bass, lots of mackerel, some barracuda, occasional (and I do mean occasional) yellow tail, some ling cod, and fair to good bottom fishing. The fishing was so so then and there and I bought a 15 ft skiff to fish the waters off Orange County, Ca. That turned out to be a waste of time and a waste of money as the fishing just deteriorated from there. I stopped fishing those waters altogether around 1995 as fishing was so poor, it was simply a waste of time and gasoline. Stored my boat and didn't use it for 15 years until last year when I took the boat to La Paz. Turned my attention to fishing in Baja exclusively since 1995.

Last year fishing out of La Paz was a bust.

In the late 80s, it was common to limit out on 35 lb dorado out of Loreto in the summer. Now, it's been my observation that you're lucky if you can catch Dorado over 12 lbs each.

30 years ago, buying fish in the USA in a super market, red snapper was the lowest costing fish, freely available everywhere, Halibut, salmon and sea bass were a little more expensive but certainly affordable, catfish was a 'junk fish' (albeit dam delicious) and not even offered for sale, swai fillet and pampano were no where to be seen in a super market. Today, red snapper and catfish is just as expensive as farmed salmon (farmed salmon used to be $3/lb three years ago) at not less than $6/lb, the cheapest fish is swai fillet, halibut starts at $10/lb, scallops are $12/lb, sea bass and lobster are astronomical. In short, sea food is getting a bit closer to being prohibitive in cost. The point being that the super market prices are reflecting the continuing scarcity of sea food in general.

Keeping my eyes and ears open, hoping that fishing will improve in the Baja, but I can't see why it would. That's not the way this vector is going. I am starting to look else where for fishing.... maybe Costa Rica.

sardine

captkw - 12-18-2011 at 08:33 AM

I can tell you for a fact that the sardine's where wiped out of the monterey bay and I have not seen one in that part of world or has anyone else for over 50+ year's,,,yes skeet the clycles are true in just about all thing's in life,,but have little to do with the FACT that the sea of cortez is almost a desert now compared to what is was a few year's ago and no I dont like bad,depressing crap....and I have never had a bad sunrise over the sea unless I see a net boat as it get's light!!

I bet you own a hakapik too, Skeet

mcfez - 12-18-2011 at 08:43 AM

Cant read this post too clearly...why dont you add some more whale oil to that oil lamp of yours.

The Monterey Bay canneries failed after the collapse of the fishing industry in Monterey Bay in the mid-1950s, which resulted from overfishing.

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
If the Sea of Cortez is so Bad, Tell me , where did the present Great Number of Sardines come from

I have seen that same Operation on the Sea of Cortez for 40 years. Why do the Sardines keep coming back by the Millions??

why do we have cycles of Great Fishing like over on the Pacific coast as last year??

I am referring to the Sea of Cortez not Off shore of Monterey Calif, where supposedly the oceans Sardines were all caught 50 years ago.

Just keep in mind that many{Not all} of these Spokesman are Thieves!! They like to get People upset so that those People will send them Money so they can go on Trips.

Merry Christmas
.

Iflyfish - 12-18-2011 at 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vgabndo
It seems that as the writing on the wall becomes more clear in every language, the delusional become more fixated on miraculous salvation. Homo sapiens is in measurably deep trouble and its likely there's going to be a pretty big die-off in that species fairly soon too.

Good for the fish, and the humans too for that matter. Perhaps if the more rational of our species survive to breed and thrive on a planet with fewer demands on its resources, their slightly more evolved frontal lobes will help them decide to make the environment a bit more of a priority next time around. This, in my opinion, would be a good thing.

At one point I thought that HIV would be natures way of trimming the numbers, but we were too smart for it! Now I think it will probably be starvation pushed around by sectarian warfare. I hope I'm not around when our 8 billion piles of feces hit that earthshaking fan. Too bad it can't be all Norman Rockwell into the 24th. century or so.

Well said amigo! Well said! And in the face of this it is still possible to say "These are the good old days". Here is to your "good old days!"

Iflyfish

Skeet/Loreto - 12-18-2011 at 09:42 AM

For over 40 years I have fished the Sea of Cortez. Owned and operated a Panga for 27 Years. Commercial fished with some of the pangeros.

Yes there is a decline of Fishing out of Loreto. 20 years ago there would be as many as 80 pangas getting bait out of Loreto, but the park came in and many of those Old time Fisherman went elsewhere.
I watched while living in San Nichalos the Fertilizer boats take out all of the Sierra then the yellowtail moved out to deeper water{some Fisherman never go out for enough from shore} where they are still lots of Fish on their Cycle.

Ckeck out the Size of the Yellowtail and yellowfin Tuna being caught on the pacific Side.3 years ago I fished Mulege and saw Fish like they were 20 years before that.

No, the fish are there, the others will be back just like the Tons of Sardines being taken now, the Tons of Squid taken in the past 5 years.

The Sky is Not Falling!!!. Global Warming is Bull Puckey!! I want my Grandchildren to grow up on their own and make their Decesions based on What they see and observe, not what some Ward Churchill Type Liberal College Prof. may tell them in Class!!! Or some Sierra Club Nut may Publish trying to get them to send in a Donation!!!!

I strongly urge anyone to go to the Sea of Cortez with a boat and start investigating the Fishing{Not just within a days ride of Loreto}, You doubfull Nuts should go out to Mercanaries Reedf{35 miles on 030 out of Loreto} and come back and tell the Truth about what you found and Observed. But I must say that in my experience most of the Talking Nuts like MC Fez cannot Produce when the going gets Tough!!

Merry
Christmas

Russ - 12-18-2011 at 10:05 AM

So Skeet you're saying there are plenty of fish off shore and, correct me if I'm wrong, the inshore fishery is just going through a natural cycle and at some point it will return without the help of greenies or enforcement of the laws? I hope your rants are correct because right now the inshore fisheries SUCK. At least in my area.

Skeet/Loreto - 12-18-2011 at 10:24 AM

Russ:
I fished Mulege 2 and 3 years ago and caught all the Fish I needed. I saw Bait on top with Tons of Yellowtail chasing the Bait, ever saw some schools of AmberJack on top of the Water.
Pompano out of Conception sure seems to catch a ;lot of Fish and tells it right about the decline.
It will come back. It is in a Cycle The Sierra are showing up after being taken out 20 years ago.

.

wessongroup - 12-18-2011 at 10:34 AM

Yep, "it's" a hard one to come to terms with .... that being, we have dominion over everything ..... and with this dominion comes a much higher degree of responsibility over same ... and evolution is dynamic after all ..... can hardly wait for some "informed decisions" from world leaders on this one ..... just saying

:lol:

[Edited on 12-18-2011 by wessongroup]

Skeeter, your part of the 1% er's ... that b scientist who don't conclude that "human's" have impacted our planet and some of it's "cycles" ...

[Edited on 12-18-2011 by wessongroup]

castaway$ - 12-18-2011 at 10:34 AM

I can read truth into both perspectives- Yes cycles affect the fisheries and somtimes dramatically. Last year in Cabo was a great example, Dec/Jan although not a great time to fish it was miserable, no pelagics around hardly at all because the water temps were 5-10 degrees cooler than usual, La nina?, no bait? cycles do affect the fisheries.
And the other half of the equation is true also, and very simple but not necessarily easy to solve. More people create more demand for food and thats only going to get worse. I also beleive we are slowly destroying our environment, with that being said, Mother Nature is also very resilient if given a chance but the thought of getting everyone to agree on a plan isn't going to happen for awhile as long as large sums of money are at stake, greed is a powerful motivator. Another strike against recovery is modernization of the industry, when a ship can take a couple scoops and wipe out an entire school theres not much hope.

[Edited on 12-18-2011 by castaway$]

castaway$ - 12-18-2011 at 10:40 AM

Quote:

can hardly wait for some "informed decisions" from world leaders on this one ..... just saying

If it is brought to their attention I'm sure congress and the senate will get right on it and the problem will be solved by.......................

[Edited on 12-18-2011 by wessongroup]

Bajatripper - 12-18-2011 at 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
If the Sea of Cortez is so Bad, Tell me , where did the present Great Number of Sardines come from
.

As it so happens, sardines are one of MY clues for the health of the local environment, too. And by my reconning, the Sea of Cortez is in deep doo doo. When I was a kid growing up in La Paz in the 1960s, there were so many sardines along the malecon that at times it seemed you would never see a break in their numbers for the entire walk from the Puentecito (now Molinito Park) to the Navy Base that use to be at the other end of the malecon, at Marquez de Leon. When we went fishing at the Pemex dock, there were always schools of sardine all around the dock and bait was never an issue. That is no longer the case at either place. There simply aren't any.

But Skeet, you go right on ahead with your dream world of never-ending cornucopian bounty. You only make those who don't know you aware of your failing mental faculties.

Sierra nuts, indeed! I find the Texas Nut much more entertaining.

Skeet/Loreto - 12-18-2011 at 10:48 AM

I do beleive that Humans as well as Animals have impacted our Planet, Just do not Share some of the same Theories of the Causes.

Yes some of the Commercial Fishing does impact certain areas, but the Sea of Cortez is a very different Place where the Fish come and go. When we see Photos of the Fishing Boats we do not stop and think that "Where did the Tons of Sardines come From????

I think that the "Greed FActor: in our Culture is far more Harmful than any change in our Climate.

Bajatripper - 12-18-2011 at 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto

I think that the "Greed FActor: in our Culture is far more Harmful than any change in our Climate.

I will half agree with you there, Skeet. Climate change is coming on precisely because of the greed factor of man.

Sweetwater - 12-18-2011 at 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
For over 40 years I have fished the Sea of Cortez. Owned and operated a Panga for 27 Years. Commercial fished with some of the pangeros.

Yes there is a decline of Fishing out of Loreto. 20 years ago there would be as many as 80 pangas getting bait out of Loreto, but the park came in and many of those Old time Fisherman went elsewhere.
I watched while living in San Nichalos the Fertilizer boats take out all of the Sierra then the yellowtail moved out to deeper water{some Fisherman never go out for enough from shore} where they are still lots of Fish on their Cycle.

Ckeck out the Size of the Yellowtail and yellowfin Tuna being caught on the pacific Side.3 years ago I fished Mulege and saw Fish like they were 20 years before that.

No, the fish are there, the others will be back just like the Tons of Sardines being taken now, the Tons of Squid taken in the past 5 years.

The Sky is Not Falling!!!. Global Warming is Bull Puckey!! I want my Grandchildren to grow up on their own and make their Decesions based on What they see and observe, not what some Ward Churchill Type Liberal College Prof. may tell them in Class!!! Or some Sierra Club Nut may Publish trying to get them to send in a Donation!!!!

I strongly urge anyone to go to the Sea of Cortez with a boat and start investigating the Fishing{Not just within a days ride of Loreto}, You doubfull Nuts should go out to Mercanaries Reedf{35 miles on 030 out of Loreto} and come back and tell the Truth about what you found and Observed. But I must say that in my experience most of the Talking Nuts like MC Fez cannot Produce when the going gets Tough!!

Merry
Christmas

First: Merry Christmas backatcha.....

Second: You sound exactly like my 84 yo dad......almost verbatim in several sentences....

Third: I truly hope you're correct in your vision......

Fourth: Reality just does not match up to that vision....the polar ice melts, the production of green house gasses, the record population load of 8 billion humans on the planet.......and the best example I can think of....

When you have a petri dish and place some bacteria on it, they multiply until they reach the limit of their resources, then they crash....some survive but that expansion phase never again repeats.....it is nature, it is natural, there are smaller cycles within the larger cycle.....but it's also really happening.......

David K - 12-18-2011 at 11:05 AM

Another point is one that the Sierra Club and other leftist organizations never mention, and that is that we humans are a natural part of this planet just as much as the sardines and turtles.

Yes, we can eat until a species is reduced to a point that we eat something else... but, Nature is so far stronger than man ever gives it credit for and the animal will return if it is meant to be.

One thing for certain is change... If you live long enough, things are going to be changing before your eyes... Sardines will disappear... and perhaps come back again more than before... The weather will seem warmer for a few years, then we will have the coldest years...

We have changed our habits and have performed differently than the past as far as limiting our take of certain species, eco-management if it proves to benefit our ability to take from the sea on a regular basis. The co-ops of Bahia Asuncion, Abreojos, etc. seem to have it down as a science. Great!

The main point here is to have some faith in Planet Earth, not blame humans for everything, and just do the best you can at living your life.

Eugenio - 12-18-2011 at 11:12 AM

I guess I'm out of step (as usual) on this board - to me motoged's post wasn't really about fish or climate change per se - it was about how we tend to romanticize the simple life. As motoged says:

"The romanticism of the situation deteriorated as I recognized their "simplicity" was poverty and suffering."

Their congenial and welcoming character notwithstanding life has always been tough for Bajacalifornianos and mexicans in general. 100 years ago - 50 years ago - today - whenever.

But I'm probably wrong on all counts.

Sweetwater - 12-18-2011 at 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eugenio
I guess I'm out of step (as usual) on this board - to me motoged's post wasn't really about fish or climate change per se - it was about how we tend to romanticize the simple life. As motoged says:

"The romanticism of the situation deteriorated as I recognized their "simplicity" was poverty and suffering."

Their congenial and welcoming character notwithstanding life has always been tough for Bajacalifornianos and mexicans in general. 100 years ago - 50 years ago - today - whenever.

But I'm probably wrong on all counts.

It's been a conversation...with a starting point.......and it's own direction....and conversations evolve........right or wrong should not be goal of a good conversation.....it's the development and sharing of ideas, thoughts and data......and thanks for your thoughts on this conversation...as well as motoged for starting it........

castaway$ - 12-18-2011 at 11:24 AM

Quote:

You are probably right however the title "The fish are gone" tends to strike a chord with many since fishing is probably the top recreational activity of many that visit baja.

durrelllrobert - 12-18-2011 at 11:26 AM

Seems to me that the old saying "if youre not part of the solution, you are part of the problem" applies here. Could someone explain why it's OK for the tens of thousand of us "sport" fishermen (includes me) to brag about filling an icechest with fish when we only need to catch and EAT one, and why it's not OK for a commercial boat to fill it's hold with tons of fish that will feed tens of thousands of people?________________________________________________

castaway$ - 12-18-2011 at 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Seems to me that the old saying "if youre not part of the solution, you are part of the problem" applies here. Could someone explain why it's OK for the tens of thousand of us "sport" fishermen (includes me) to brag about filling an icechest with fish when we only need to catch and EAT one, and why it's not OK for a commercial boat to fill it's hold with tons of fish that will feed tens of thousands of people?________________________________________________

Sport fishing you are right for the most part, a few for the freezer for us that aren't able to catch fish in Mexico all the time is OK also in my opinion.
As far as the commercial boat filling it's hold well the debate over destructive methods comes to mind, and then there could be the debate of filling the holds for cat food or fertilizer.

[Edited on 12-18-2011 by castaway$]

David K - 12-18-2011 at 11:46 AM

The oceans of the world are FAR greater in area than the land... Eating fish instead of cattle and chickens seems to be correct... The problem is thay all taste so good! :rolleyes:

bajabass - 12-18-2011 at 12:21 PM

Commercial fishing, done unchecked, by a fleet of large, efficient boats with no care of longevity, has virtually destroyed the centuries old practice of the small craft, localized fisherman. I see long idle pangas up and down Baja, seemingly more than are on the beaches and in the bays presently. Why?? Not enough fish, that's why.

I was witness to massive juvenile shark slaughter just last week at a secluded beach just north of La Paz. A panga pulled up on the beach next to me, and began unloading what seemed like dozens and dozens of baby sharks, none over 5 pounds. After they filled several large plastic crates and left, I walked north a 1/4 mile, and began to see hundreds of tails and heads of baby sharks and small rays. If the waters around La Paz were still filled with tuna, grouper, pargo, ect, I don't think these fisherman would be targeting babies!!! But, they need to feed their families, and large commecial operations have drasticaly reduced their options.

Like Bahia Concepcion, Bahia La Paz is a nursery for fish. I catch many small roosters and jacks from the beaches, all released to grow up. You can sit up on the hills of San Juan De La Costa and see HUGE baitballs up and down the coast. Give these areas a chance, and they will recover. It needs to be done, SOON!!!

motoged - 12-18-2011 at 01:44 PM

My story was prompted by Pompano's story about sardine fishing.

I don't fish but I eat fish....no morality trip here....

My story also wasn't solely about suffering, necessarily....that was just my learning piece with that day down to Agua Verde.

Overfishing is sort of an extension of the notion that the world is an endless bounty...

The story is a springboard for conversation....and that's fine.

That day was a memory....I have a video recording of my meal and conversation with the girl and her mother....so I can keep the memory refreshed...if I can ever find that tape amidst my overabundance of crap I have collected over the years.

The story can lead one off to many places in one's mind....as that is what stories do.

I

Skeet/Loreto - 12-18-2011 at 01:49 PM

Some very good comments about the Fishing on the Sea of Cortez.

La Paz is like some other places, the Bay gets so polluted that there is not enough Oxygen for the Fish, like the Bay at Victoria Canada.

If you go up North 40 miles above La Paz you can Drown in Fish. From there to 30 miles below Loreto is still some of the best Fishing in The Cortez. It onlu gets fished Commercially. There is excellent fishing 20 Miles North of Loreto and up and around San Marcos Isla and then up North of there.

Why is it that some of you Young Farts try to Point out a False premise that just because we are 80 years old we don't Know?? Most of us Old Farts have more experience and Knowledge than any of you Young Farts, one reason being that you donot check Information for Facts, you are more interested in "Blaming" someone for your own Shortcomings.

Question{See if I get an Answer}: If the Sea of Cortez is so bad, Why are we seeing pictures of Tons and Tons of Sardines???Where have the Sardines been Hiding???

Merry Christmas

wessongroup - 12-18-2011 at 01:53 PM

Say, hear tell, there were over 60 million Buffalo that used to roam the mid west ... anyone figure they will come back ... through a natural "cycle" ... just saying...

And guess all the attention being given to "farming" fish... is just a coincident ... don't think so ... IMHO ... rather the realization that food production from the even the sea ... has limits ... as we are finding out...

vgabndo... dittos' on the human waste issue... tis something we will have to deal with ... HUH !! 8 billion humans ... WOW a lot of stuff :biggrin:

[Edited on 12-18-2011 by wessongroup]

Skeet/Loreto - 12-18-2011 at 02:19 PM

Hey Wesson! The Buffalo are Back!

Just 20 miles from where I live they just brought in an released about 30 head in the CapRock State park Area . They are free to roam.

Ken Bondy - 12-18-2011 at 02:25 PM

One of the saddest things I've ever seen in Baja:

wessongroup - 12-18-2011 at 02:27 PM

Know they are "growing them" and think it to be an excellent idea ... those critters did awfully well ... all by their lonesome without help from anyone... until those "crazy" European's showed up ... and just plain killed them off ... for a couple of reasons...

Have had Buffalo steaks .... good eating IMHO ...

But, then there is nothing wrong with a good cut of beef... just saying

By the way Skeet's ya got your name on the wall at the Big Texan ...

http://www.bigtexan.com/free72.html

baron - 12-18-2011 at 02:55 PM

What I got from motoged's post was a treat. The writing was so good that it mattered not whether it was fiction or fact. Made me think fondly of Mike Humphryville and his incredible ability to paint a picture with words. Thank you so much motoged.

Skeet/Loreto - 12-18-2011 at 03:59 PM

It is indeed to Sad to see such waste of good Food. In the Past many of the small airstrips built near the Sea of Cortez were for the Airplanes coming from the States to pick up Shark Livers for the Vitamin Deal at that time. Tons and Tons of Shark was taken for their livers only.

As some of you know there was a time when the Mouth of The Sea of Cortez was covered with japanese Boats from the East Cape to Matzlan catching or trying to catch the Fish coming into the Cortez. Was not sucessf! Japanese were kicked out of the Cortez after their two ships tried to sneak out with Tons of illegal Catch

Wesson: No my Name is not on the Wall at the Big Texan as it is the Poorest Food in Amarillo. If anybody comes this way, let me know and I will turn you on to good Steaks, BBQ. and some good Tex=Mex.

Chilly Willys has the best Chickin Fried Steaks you ever tasted with jalapeno Gravy.

Merry Christmas

Skeet/Loreto - 12-18-2011 at 04:01 PM

Wesson:
The only Wall that my Name is on is at the Badger Flat Ski Lodge in Yosemite National Park. For winning the Siver Ski Race in 1958.

capt. mike - 12-18-2011 at 04:11 PM

many chickens now are known to say "mooo" instead of cluck or crow.

Skeet/Loreto - 12-18-2011 at 04:40 PM

Pomp"

The waste of so much good Food is what bothers me!
Sure wih we could somehow make sure all that Fish Food is being consumed. But if Wishs were horses we would all ride to Town!

wessongroup - 12-18-2011 at 04:51 PM

Skeeter, yer talk'n my kind of food ..... and, I mean "one" chicken fried steak a year ain't gonna hurt ya IMHO .... and it does sound good just thinking about it... moderation. moderation, moderation

And to all a Merry Christmas to you and yours.. or what ever makes ya happy...

Would only say, a guy's gotta do what he's gotta do to make a living ... not much else around... and if the public perception is that it will continue to replenish it's self, all own it's own ... well, all bets are off IMHO .. a sad tag on to this, very large share comes, NOB ...

[Edited on 12-19-2011 by wessongroup]

wessongroup - 12-18-2011 at 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Wesson:
The only Wall that my Name is on is at the Badger Flat Ski Lodge in Yosemite National Park. For winning the Siver Ski Race in 1958.

Skeeter ... now that's a BOLD statement ... considering all the bathrooms in the world... just saying

Ooopppss ... hope I didn't start something :lol:

[Edited on 12-19-2011 by wessongroup]

sardine's

captkw - 12-18-2011 at 05:44 PM

worked on a boat today,in moterey harbor and drove thur cannery row,,cant say I saw any sardine's but some hot torist babe's LOL,,and if my custermer's will leave me alone I'll be heading down to my winter home before winter is over,,look's like I only get 3 month 's this season as the salmon season start's april 1st :lol:

K&T

[Edited on 12-19-2011 by captkw]

[Edited on 12-19-2011 by captkw]

Pompano - 12-18-2011 at 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Pomp"

The waste of so much good Food is what bothers me!
Sure wih we could somehow make sure all that Fish Food is being consumed. But if Wishs were horses we would all ride to Town!

Hah...you got it right, old friend. You're one of the unique sages of Baja and I respect all your views, although disagreeing with some. I'm afraid we just won't be making all those great red snapper dinners as easy as we once did...but just have to jig harder and deeper.

Sure am glad to have the memories though..And a few PHOTOS of course. :rolleyes:

Feliz Navidad y Próspero Año Nuevo!

edit to correct my bad sentence structuring and what-nots.

[Edited on 12-19-2011 by Pompano]

vgabndo - 12-18-2011 at 06:50 PM

Skeeter, you're an interesting case. I've been reading a lot about Delusional Disorder lately because of my feeling that the diagnosis is, for religio-political reasons, so seldom applied. Iflyfish may question my understanding, but to be delusional only requires that one, over a period of time, hold a belief in something which might actually be possible but for which overwhelming evidence exists to the contrary. I was really curious to read that religion was excluded from this diagnosis. You've previously identified yourself as a church official. I am accountable for judging you have a propensity for "magical" thinking.

To deny the condition of the seas is tantamount to being a holocaust denier.

And Skeet. Humans ARE animals, and this branch of primates has risen to the top of the food chain and pushed it to the limits, call it the free will of fallen angels if you must.

As a proud mountain livin', spring water drinkin', tree huggin', environmentalist citizen with a view of the Sierras I am offended by your slurs and I give you the following evidence that we "nut - jobs" have something to be proud of.

http://www.esasuccess.org/reports/northeast/ne_species/study...

Environmentalist protections saved our buddy the Brown Pelican. It came off the ESL in 2008. Ron Le Valley Photo

brnPelican5.jpg - 7kB

mcfez - 12-18-2011 at 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by captkw
worked on boat today,in moterey harbor and drove thur cannery row,,cant say I saw any sardine's but some hot torist babe's LOL,,and if my custermer's will leave me alone I'll be heading down to my winter home before winter is over,,look's like I only get 3 month 's this season as the salmon season start's april 1st :lol:

K&T

Check your U2 stereo

captkw - 12-18-2011 at 08:18 PM

HOLA, I think I new mike a long while back...did he have the trailer with bamboo side's/fenceing next the road at the river ??? and the guy that ran the place back in O heck,,I guess 85 or so, big mike,big john,big bob,, FISHING machine ....I thought I would never lose my memery..... and I miss the bakery....over the year's I have seen that river(bad term) wipe out that area time and time again,,,sorta like a bad ex,,show's up once in a while,,and after she's gone so is everthing ,,baja bound !!(soon) yee haaa.....Keith & li tasha :cool:

[Edited on 12-19-2011 by captkw]

pompano

captkw - 12-18-2011 at 08:26 PM

YES< I knew the older guy sitting in the chair ,, with white shirt,,great pic's K&T

[Edited on 12-19-2011 by captkw]

triggers

captkw - 12-19-2011 at 03:56 AM

taking out guy's on the sly(no lic.) I'd head offshore early.start with tuna and dorado,after2,3,4 hr's let's head back inshore for serria's for ceveche grumble,grumble,then I'd re-rig and find some rockpile's,ok,drop um....I got a big one, one guy yell's,,somtimes a double,,fish get's to color,then into the boat,,the guy looks dazed & confused,befazed he say's that isnt the first fish,it musta got off and this little guy somhow got on,I look at him and calmly say welcome to trigger fish...lb for lb the toughest fish in the ocean,,he look's at me like I'm crazy (true) and rebait's & drop's,,bang up come's another BIG ,THIS is a BIG fish he scream's and get's to color,a trig,has happend lots of times

[Edited on 12-19-2011 by captkw]

[Edited on 12-19-2011 by captkw]

Skeet/Loreto - 12-19-2011 at 08:04 AM

Vag> If you could just relax and somehow "Look at all sides of any Question" you would be a much better Himan Being.
And I do not beleive that I descended from a MONKEY!!!!!
Yes about 10 years ago my wife worked for a years for a Church and I {Speaking Sanish} held a position helping my fellow Mexico Friends getting invilved.
Then the Pastor started teaching aganish FreeMasonry{I being a 50 year Member} there fore my Wife and I departed.
When Arriving in Amarillo same thing Happened so we are no longer involed with a Church but do like to listen to the Good words of Joel Olsteen on Sunday Evening.

The Trouble with you Sierra Nuts is that you do not have the Ability to observe ,study, or see the other side.Is it not Great that we as Americans can Beleive as we wish with out having some Liberal, DOPER, from the Sierra club telling us what to do with our lives!!!
I will bet you are also a Member of PETA who by the way wants Turkey Texas{Home of Bob Wills} to change its Name to TUFURKEY.
Now just think of the "Brillance of that Request.

I think maybe Vag you are Un Happy with your Life so you Blame Religion for your Own Shortcomings.

God Bless you and Merry Christmas

sancho - 12-19-2011 at 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
I do not beleive that I descended from a MONKEY!!!!!

God Bless you and Merry Christmas

No Anthropology Classes? OK, but how did Magellen
circumnavigate on this FLAT earth? FYI, it wasn't
a MONKEY

[Edited on 12-19-2011 by sancho]

wessongroup - 12-19-2011 at 12:41 PM

And on this side .... William Jennings Bryan ... :biggrin:

we are NOT descended from apes...

And to think he was a liberal Democrat .... :lol:

Hey Sketter ... now how the hell did that happen... just saying .... :biggrin:

Not sure on if he wasn't into the Environment... but, would think not ... just guessing ...

Things sure do change over time... :biggrin:

[Edited on 12-19-2011 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 12-19-2011 by wessongroup]

capn.sharky - 12-19-2011 at 06:40 PM

Was this tread about the fish in the Sea of Cortez or about dumping on Skeet. Hey, he was there when some of you guys were still in pampers. He has seen the fish count go up and go down. He sees the glass half full --- and thats a good thing. No guys, the sky is not falling. Lighten up a little. Sharky

David K - 12-19-2011 at 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capn.sharky
Was this tread about the fish in the Sea of Cortez or about dumping on Skeet. Hey, he was there when some of you guys were still in pampers. He has seen the fish count go up and go down. He sees the glass half full --- and thats a good thing. No guys, the sky is not falling. Lighten up a little. Sharky

motoged - 12-19-2011 at 10:37 PM

No fish? Fewer fish?

It's kinda like when the resources are gone or seriously depleted, no one calls you up to instal sprinklers.

I guess we could blame the liberals.

Or the capitalist corporations who don't give a sh#t about anything except grabbing the biggest handful they can for as long as they can.

Occupy that thought for a minute ! :biggrin:

Skeet/Loreto - 12-20-2011 at 08:08 AM

Question:

Why is it that none of those "Cry Baby Sierra Clubs Nuts" have obtained a Vessel and gone to the Sea of Cortez and Investigated the "Truth" about the Fishing.???

Yes there has been a decline in certain Areas such as Loreto due to several reasons, the Major reason is there are not that many SportFisherman going out and bringing in reports of the fishing.
The cycle of fishing was disturbed by the massive taking of the Squid out of several areas. It caused the Fish to move out and away from Shore to deeper Water.

It is caused in certain area of the Massive taking of Sardines and other bait fish by three or four Boats.
It would take a 1,000 Boats across the Mouth of the Sea to stop the Cycle of fish going and coming.

The Fish are There Come on Down and Catch some??

David K - 12-20-2011 at 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by motoged
No fish? Fewer fish?

It's kinda like when the resources are gone or seriously depleted, no one calls you up to instal sprinklers.

I guess we could blame the liberals.

Or the capitalist corporations who don't give a sh#t about anything except grabbing the biggest handful they can for as long as they can.

Occupy that thought for a minute ! :biggrin:

Less than a minute my friend...

In the case of us in the home improvement business, the government destroyed the resources by their manipulating the normal and natural activities of the home lending institutions (see Barney Frank and Chris Dodd f'ing-up the banks with their "everyone deserves a home" BS).

Pompano - 12-20-2011 at 08:16 AM

Motoged...I'm gonna think about Baja.

Think of the crooked liberals or the crooked conservatives?

Naw...would spoil my breakfast.

Much more important is Baja:

...we need to bring back the totoaba..

..buy lots of limpet mines. :rolleyes:

wilderone - 12-20-2011 at 09:25 AM

Skeet, educate yourself:
http://www.seawatch.org/newsroom/proposed_regulations_effect...

http://geo-mexico.com/?p=3546

http://www.mexconnect.com/articles/3157-overfishing-in-the-s...

http://www.bajalife.com/v4pg58.htm

http://www.sfbg.com/39/36/news_sea_of_cortez.html

http://fire.biol.wwu.edu/trent/alles/Sea_of_Cortez.pdf

durrelllrobert - 12-20-2011 at 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vgabndo

Environmentalist protections saved our buddy the Brown Pelican. It came off the ESL in 2008. Ron Le Valley Photo

...so the Sierra Club is responsible for their comeback and the brown pelicans had nothing to do with it themselves?

Skeet/Loreto - 12-20-2011 at 10:11 AM

Wildone:

Your Posts of Internet websites is not EDUCATION!! Most if not all of that stuff is Bull Puckey put forth by People who have never been on the Sea of Cortez!!!

I will stack my 40 years fishing the Sea and making observations from the Education of an Investigator aganist all of that Bull.

You just do not understand that you have to get out on that Water, day afte Day, watch the Birds, observe the changes in the Water, dive around the islands, talk to the old time mesican Fisherman, in other words be a Part of it and be honest about what you see.

Do not depend on a bunch of Monkey Butt Sierra Club Type College Students to tell you "Like it is????

Still no One has Answered the Question::

Where are all the Sardines that you see in the Photos coming from?????????????

mtgoat666 - 12-20-2011 at 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Still no One has Answered the Question::

Where are all the Sardines that you see in the Photos coming from?????????????

the sardines evolved from the same single cell organism that you evolved from.

wessongroup - 12-20-2011 at 11:20 AM

As you requested .... Where have all the sardines gone... isn't there a song like that ...

I love Skeeter... he has a position and isn't afraid to PUT IT UP and defend it ... that's what it's all about IMHO .. I like to fun with Skeeter... and that's all it is to me... joking around about various issues .. which have been real problem solvers for us all .... make a living, rise kids, save for your future and our country's ... and serve in defense of same when needed... as an American

Here's a guy, who did much the same thing... He had his own "idea's" on sardines too... and his ideas are now the basis for the return of same ...

Sorry Skeeter, learned about this guy in Marine Biology class, (1969) from extra reading ... he was my kinda of scientist ... "Ed Ricketts was a beer-drinking, philosophizing, skirt-chasing col- lege dropout".... with good idea's...

So hang in there all ... think some of you are awfully close ........ given this outline on this fella's lifestyle ...

"More than a half-century after Rick- etts’s death, sardines have at last returned to the northeastern Pacific. “The Mon- terey fishery was built on some good year classes that came in the early 1930s, when sea surface temperatures were warm enough for sardines to reach high pro- ductivity zones off of California, Ore- gon, and Washington,” explains Richard Parrish, a fisheries biologist who helped build the model that is now used to man- age the reborn sardine industry. The model sets harvest quotas based on esti- mates of existing sardine biomass and on sea surface temperatures known to affect sardine reproduction and survival.

It’s an updated version of a concept advocated by Ricketts and by California Department of Fish and Game biolo- gists in the 1930s, which was never im- plemented before the sardine crash."

http://www.sharonlevy.net/PDFs/BioScience%20Cannery%20Row.pd...

[Edited on 12-20-2011 by wessongroup]

spurious info from college educated know nothings!

mtgoat666 - 12-20-2011 at 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Still no One has Answered the Question::

Where are all the Sardines that you see in the Photos coming from?????????????

the sardines evolved from the same single cell organism that you evolved from.

here is another bunch of baloney from those dang college educated know nothings:

The Pacific sardine (Sardinops sagax), a small, pelagic plankton-feeding fish, reproduces
rapidly and prolifically. Pacific sardines supported the United States’ largest and most
lucrative commercial fishery from the 1910s through the 1940s. Sardine stocks then
entered a steep decline, probably due to natural oceanographic cycles: fossil evidence
suggests that Pacific sardines have experienced such “boom-and-bust” cycles about every
60 years over the last 1,700 years, independent of fishing. In any case, the U.S. fishery
collapsed in the 1950s and commercial fishing ceased altogether in the 1960s. However,
since the 1970s, the Pacific sardine has rebounded, and currently enjoys excellent
abundance and a high growth rate. California fisheries managers consider the resource
recovered, although managers note that the developing sardine fishery must be carefully
regulated to avoid any impact on the ongoing expansion of the population. Management
is attentive and proactive, with an FMP in place and an innovative system of catch quotas
based on environmental conditions. In 2001, NMFS listed Pacific sardines as "not
overfished" and "with no overfishing occurring" throughout Washington, Oregon, and
California. In British Columbia, the northern edge of the recovering population’s range,
Canada’s DFO considers the sardine “not at risk”. Pacific sardines are usually taken with
purse-seines, a method that, in this fishery, produces little bycatch and negligable habitat
damage.

source: Seafood Watch® Pacific Sardine Report

David K - 12-20-2011 at 12:13 PM

Same college geniuses who said we were going into an ice age in the 70's...

Then said we going into global warming in the 90's...

and now we know that warming and cooling are NORMAL and have been for centuries... even long before 'evil' fossil fuels kept us alive in the winter.

sancho - 12-20-2011 at 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
[the sardines evolved from the same single cell organism that you evolved from.

Gracias mtg, There is nothing wrong with a
thread EVOLVING, there is that damn word again,
into something other than what the original intent
was, DK your boy GW gave this housing mess traction
6 yrs back. Put the blame where it belongs

watizname - 12-20-2011 at 12:25 PM

Bottom Line------You can't fool Mother Nature.
Remember that old commercial?? Was that Thunder??????

Skeet/Loreto - 12-20-2011 at 12:33 PM

This is something I can agree with!!

The Sardines keep coming back, so Why do the Nuts keep Crying" The Sea of Cortez is Ruined"?????'

I have Observed the taking of Sardines for Years , just like in the Photos, yet they keep coming back, time after time??

It maybe that some of this Bull Puckey is designed to "Scare people'', get them to sent theri Money so theses Nuts can buy more DOPE. Could that be possible??

Skeet/Loreto - 12-20-2011 at 12:35 PM

Notice! Notice!!

Skeet/loreto has just been awarded "The Fisherman of the Centruy"" by the Masterbaiters Club of America.

Thanks to all who voted for me.

Skeet

Barry A. - 12-20-2011 at 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sancho

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
[the sardines evolved from the same single cell organism that you evolved from.

Lots of "blame"------does little good---------need to correct the situation. Obama appears to be purpetuating it--------Bush & Team (& others) did warn about the apparent impending disaster---------but yes, lots of blame including mainly the public who bought into this pipe-dream. Always extremes both good and bad, in a Free Market or Democracy (Republic)---------that is what makes us GREAT!!!! the chance to prosper, and yes, make mistakes. Long term we are sure prospering if you look around with an eye couched in optimism.

Argueing is a waste of time.

Barry

mtgoat666 - 12-20-2011 at 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
It maybe that some of this Bull Puckey is designed to "Scare people'', get them to sent theri Money so theses Nuts can buy more DOPE. Could that be possible??

exactly! at the end of the day it's all about people craving dope!

do you think we could genetically engineer a sardine that yields a high when smoked or snorted? could smart college educated gal cross breed cannabis with sardine? would the democrats fund that scientific research? you bet they would!

sancho - 12-20-2011 at 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Nuts can buy more DOPE.

Couldn't have said it better, those dope smoking left
wing hippie
conservation/evironmentalists, give me a good redblooded
Alcoholic anytime

Skeet/Loreto - 12-20-2011 at 01:08 PM

I would like to suggest to one and All for you to read "The Sea of Cortez" by Ray Cannon then get a copy of the Log from the Sea of Cortez and read it

I bought my copy of the Log from the Sea of Cortez by Steinbeck-Ricketts at the Entrance to the Campus at Berkerley.{i was afraid to get too close as some of those nekid Motorcycle riders would get me!!}

I used both of those books as my guides while Fishing the Sea.

David K - 12-20-2011 at 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
I would like to suggest to one and All for you to read "The Sea of Cortez" by Ray Cannon then get a copy of the Log from the Sea of Cortez and read it

I bought my copy of the Log from the Sea of Cortez by Steinbeck-Ricketts at the Entrance to the Campus at Berkerley.{i was afraid to get too close as some of those nekid Motorcycle riders would get me!!}

I used both of those books as my guides while Fishing the Sea.

mcfez - 12-20-2011 at 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto

Do not depend on a bunch of Monkey Butt Sierra Club Type College Students to tell you "Like it is????

Perhaps the The Jacques Cousteau Observatories in Baja are Monkey Butts too?

David K - 12-20-2011 at 05:14 PM

They know what chains to pull to get more funding... Calling something a crisis will help.

Saying the the world was heating up and polar bears no longer had ice to sleep on really worked at raising billions and fooling the masses.

comitan - 12-20-2011 at 05:38 PM

DK For Pres!

[Edited on 12-21-2011 by comitan]

motoged - 12-20-2011 at 05:42 PM

Geeeezzzuuuuuzzzz,
This thread has demonstrated quite well the theory of devolution :barf:

Wonder what that family in Agua Verde is up to these days?

vgabndo - 12-20-2011 at 05:52 PM

Steinbeck and Ricketts were TIDEPOOLING Skeet. Its a great yarn and an interesting perspective, but the book is pseudoscientific and those conditions were 70 years ago.

Your blanket dismissal of science in favor of your personal recollections is an unfair fight. Sorry, we'll get more scientists. :no:

805gregg - 12-20-2011 at 06:41 PM

I strongly urge anyone to go to the Sea of Cortez with a boat and start investigating the Fishing{Not just within a days ride of Loreto}, You doubfull Nuts should go out to Mercanaries Reedf{35 miles on 030 out of Loreto} and come back and tell the Truth about what you found and Observed.

If the fishing is so good why do you need to go 35 miles ( about 1/2 the way to the mainland) to catch fish? When I was at Puerto Escondido in 1973 they were catching Dorado off the pier on the entrance, has that happened recently?

David K - 12-20-2011 at 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 805gregg
I strongly urge anyone to go to the Sea of Cortez with a boat and start investigating the Fishing{Not just within a days ride of Loreto}, You doubfull Nuts should go out to Mercanaries Reedf{35 miles on 030 out of Loreto} and come back and tell the Truth about what you found and Observed.

If the fishing is so good why do you need to go 35 miles ( about 1/2 the way to the mainland) to catch fish? When I was at Puerto Escondido in 1973 they were catching Dorado off the pier on the entrance, has that happened recently?

In July, 1973 I saw a yellowtail caught from the pier at Puerto Escondido... that was amazing... then a few months later, Hwy. 1 was completed and a paved highway funneled anyone and any kind of car south.

I say, rip up the damn highway... the real fish killer!!! :?:

(Things change... and you can blame almost anything you want to serve your agenda) :light:

marine bioligest

captkw - 12-20-2011 at 07:05 PM

hola, please excuse my grammer......25 year's or so ,I came back to the santa cuz ca. harbor, around noon.then limit's were 5 fish per person(salmon).I was having a hard time getting full limet's,so was coming back to port, late.monterey is like most marine/lake place's,,the wind is calm in the mornig and building as the day wear's on. so Im pulling up to the ramp dock and and the boat that is about leave had 2 honey's on her,, so, I start the small talk& when I asked where their going,,they stated " were going out a couple miles take water sample's. we are marine boioigest..I almost fell outa my boat,1/8 mile out it was blowing 25 knots!.. book train/or with time on the water,,BIG difference! marine bio's can suck my ----- K&T

[Edited on 12-21-2011 by captkw]

Osprey - 12-20-2011 at 07:21 PM

Capt. I see you edited your post. What did you edit? I am elated that you hang out down here in the southland -- now we have our very own Baja Sur Skeeter. You started your post by saying "Please excuse my grammar" then you slammed us with the worst. That's a helluva an idea. You know you're gonna kill the English language in the next few sentences so you apologize before hand! What a concept!

I don't fully understand any post you have made to date so your apologies are not worth ploughing through your mis placed thoughts. The last one will be the last one I bother with to look for the colorful old gent behind the garble.

captkw - 12-20-2011 at 08:43 PM

Hola,I respectfully agree with you ....for if I argue,that would make TWO fool's,,merry Xmas all...K&T :lol:

Cardon Man - 12-21-2011 at 07:35 AM

I am now 10% "stupider" for having read the last two pages of this thread. The ever brilliant Skeet surrounded by a galaxy of pseudo-intellectual super stars...Classic!

Skeet/Loreto - 12-21-2011 at 08:52 AM

Arriving in Loreto in1967 I started fishing wigh Alvaro Murillo in his wooden Panga for $20 a Day staying at the Hotel Oasis for $9 a Day with 3 meals.
Caught all the fish we wanted in a short time. Also could catch yellowtail casting from the Shore{They were chasing Sierra in and out.
Spent 4 years at San Nicholas with the Enrique Murillo Family catching 25 Lb yellowtail from Shore. Then along comes the Feterlizer Boats taking all the Sierra. The yellowtail moved out and started feeding on Mackarel in Deep Water.

Later as the Park came in and lots of pressure was put on the Tourist Fisherman, they quict coming to the Loreto Area. Therefore there was not as many fish Reported.
The lack of fisherman, the taking of the Shrimp from the Bay all caused the yellows and the Dorado to change their area and Cycles. One of thos places where there are so many Fish is on the Reef 35 miles North of Loreto.

2 years ago I fished the Mulege Area and saw fishing like it had been 15 years prior. This past two years have shown some very large fish ans well as lots of them. I personally think many of the Pressured fish in the Sea has moved around to the pacific Side.

I watched many times when the Sardine Boats would come in and take the Sardines, yet here they are ,back in the Millions and sure enough here is a Boat to catch some more

Much of the time the Sport Fisherman of today, depends on Electronic Devices to find his Fish instead of watching the Birds, reading the Wind and Waves, etc. They will go back to their GPS site of the last time and wonder what happened to the fish. Fish Move all over and in and out of the Sea of Cortez!!

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