BajaNomad

leased land or Fidelcosimo

Lengua - 1-4-2012 at 10:30 AM

Nomads, , we would like to know if it is prudent to purchase a property on leased land or purchase property via a fidelcosimo.
The property is located in Loreto and is controlled by the ejido.

Our question , Is it better to obtain ownership in Mexico via fidelcosimo or is acquiring property improvements and the "rigt to use them" via leased land a viable and sound option.
I know there are probably a lot of variables but at this point should we even consider acquiring the improvements (casita) on leased land.
All comments are welcome and we have read some of the posts in the RE section and Ramadun53s comments but are looking for other opinions .

Thank you

DENNIS - 1-4-2012 at 10:35 AM

If you can get an immediate, no wait til later, Fideicomiso from an Ejido, take it. Otherwise stay away from them. They lie, cheat and steal. Other than that...they're nice folks.
Owning is, of course, better than leasing.

Never

bajaguy - 1-4-2012 at 10:44 AM

Never invest more than you can afford to walk away from.

mcfez - 1-4-2012 at 10:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
If you can get an immediate, no wait til later, Fideicomiso from an Ejido, take it. Otherwise stay away from them. They lie, cheat and steal. Other than that...they're nice folks.
Owning is, of course, better than leasing.


I agree with DENNIS 100% with the "They lie, cheat and steal" remark.....but I'll add to that list.... many of the Realtors. Such dogs.

We have ejido investments in San Felipe for years...and have had no issues
. ..................................yet :-)

We also lease land .....and that has been a good experance...we did our homework. Buying / leasing in Mexico is NOT the same as doing business in the USA!!!!!!



Word here from most BN's...dont invest what you cant afford to loose.

[Edited on 1-4-2012 by mcfez]

DENNIS - 1-4-2012 at 10:51 AM

Drink mass quantities of Pacifico Beer.

sourdough - 1-4-2012 at 11:24 AM

Just signed our second ten-year lease with few Ejido problems over the past ten years. The lease has made our investment affordable for us.

larryC - 1-4-2012 at 11:24 AM

A fidiecomiso would be first choice. Leasing private land (leasing from the land owner) second choice and leasing from an Ejido last choice. Bottom line, consult a local attourny familiar with the land in question and the situation with the Ejido. Good luck
Larry
edit for spelling, probably still got it wrong.

[Edited on 1-4-2012 by larryC]

Pescador - 1-4-2012 at 11:31 AM

You may not be able to get a Fideocomiso if the property is owned by the Ejido. The Ejido has to go through a privitization through the Agrarian Court and have clear title to the land. This is a very long and involved process and I have had very close friends get really burnt in this process. If it is in private titulo then you can go about getting a Fideocomiso.
A lease is alright if you only want 10 years of protection because the maximum, by law, term of a lease is 9 yrs, 11 months, and 29 days. The other issue is that the ejido changes every three years by new election and you have no control over who gets elected in. The new officers may decide, for example, that they really want your piece of land and you are pretty much out in the cold when that happens.

I know, everyone knows someone who had a good situation with a lease and it is a workable short term solution, but you have very little protection if things ever go to court. You may improve your situation if the lease is registered with the Catastro and was filed by a Notario, but even that is not absolute.

If you google Leasing Ejido land and Privatizing Ejido Land, you may get really educated about what goes on.

Mengano - 1-4-2012 at 11:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lengua
Nomads, , we would like to know if it is prudent to purchase a property on leased land or purchase property via a fidelcosimo.
The property is located in Loreto and is controlled by the ejido.

Our question , Is it better to obtain ownership in Mexico via fidelcosimo or is acquiring property improvements and the "rigt to use them" via leased land a viable and sound option.
I know there are probably a lot of variables but at this point should we even consider acquiring the improvements (casita) on leased land.
All comments are welcome and we have read some of the posts in the RE section and Ramadun53s comments but are looking for other opinions .

Thank you


A foreigner cannot buy land from the ejido and the ejido cannot legally sell land to a foreigner unless the land is first regularized by removing it from the ejido. There is a long, drawn-out process to remove land from an ejido, which takes years and requires an approved surveyed map with meets and bounds, approval by a vote of all the ejidatarios and then an approval by the Agrarian court.

In summary, it is NEVER prudent to buy ejido land because you can not legally own it.

sourdough - 1-4-2012 at 02:56 PM

Lengua,
Explore Colonio Zaragosa. Most of the gringos there lease from the local ejido. We choose to lease because we like the location and, for the most part, our neighbors. Yes, there are risks, but the investment is much smaller than properties in Loreto Bay or the north side of town.

Leased land or Fidelcosimo

Lengua - 1-4-2012 at 03:43 PM

Curious , Are you referring to Loreto Shores RV Park and Villas? I am not aware of Colonial Zargosa but will try to figure out where it is.

Thanks

mulegejim - 1-4-2012 at 03:49 PM

As a local in Mulege once told an American - "I can sell you this property you just can't own it".

leased land / fidelcosimo

Lengua - 1-4-2012 at 04:11 PM

Nomads , thank you for the information and opinions .

One clairification . I am not trying to buy land from an ejido -but trying to figure out if a "lease" scenario is what we want versus ownership. All of you have provided good information thus far .
It appears that the lease provides for a right to use the dirt and improvements upon it. You never own it. Seems like a waste of Capital , resources and sounds riskier than a Fidelcosimo.For my money I beleive we are better off pursuing property that we can obtain title , especially if we get into home improvements . As several Nomads stated , you need to get comfortable with what you can lose . I don't want to be held hostage by the Landlord when its time to renew the lease. Seems like you would lose all your leverage . Although , it sounds like some Nomads are perfectly happy and pleased with their leases and that arrangement.

Keep the comments and information coming.

Thank you

larryC - 1-5-2012 at 09:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lengua
Nomads , thank you for the information and opinions .

One clairification . I am not trying to buy land from an ejido -but trying to figure out if a "lease" scenario is what we want versus ownership. All of you have provided good information thus far .
It appears that the lease provides for a right to use the dirt and improvements upon it. You never own it. Seems like a waste of Capital , resources and sounds riskier than a Fidelcosimo.For my money I beleive we are better off pursuing property that we can obtain title , especially if we get into home improvements . As several Nomads stated , you need to get comfortable with what you can lose . I don't want to be held hostage by the Landlord when its time to renew the lease. Seems like you would lose all your leverage . Although , it sounds like some Nomads are perfectly happy and pleased with their leases and that arrangement.

Keep the comments and information coming.

Thank you



Depends on the person or family that you lease from. If you don't maintain a freindly relationship then quite possibly you could have a problem when the time comes to renew the lease. Pretty much a constant the world over, don't pee off your landlord. If the land where you want to be is available then by far the best option is to get title to it, but most lease arrangements work just fine. You only hear about the ones where people are having problems.
Good luck with yours.
Larry

J.P. - 1-5-2012 at 09:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
If you can get an immediate, no wait til later, Fideicomiso from an Ejido, take it. Otherwise stay away from them. They lie, cheat and steal. Other than that...they're nice folks.
Owning is, of course, better than leasing.


I agree with DENNIS 100% with the "They lie, cheat and steal" remark.....but I'll add to that list.... many of the Realtors. Such dogs.

We have ejido investments in San Felipe for years...and have had no issues
. ..................................yet :-)

We also lease land .....and that has been a good experance...we did our homework. Buying / leasing in Mexico is NOT the same as doing business in the USA!!!!!!







If they call thier selfs Realtors thats the first lie The term REALTOR is trademarked in the U.S. and as far as i know has no Mexican connection



Word here from most BN's...dont invest what you cant afford to loose.

[Edited on 1-4-2012 by mcfez]

viabaja - 1-5-2012 at 09:36 AM

I'll confirm Bajaguy "Never invest more than you can afford to walk away from". Do invest, pay, or put any monies into Mexico that will break you if you loose it. Keep that always in mind.

DENNIS - 1-5-2012 at 09:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by larryC
Depends on the person or family that you lease from.


Yep...what Larry says. I lease, and I got into my lease after weighing all known variables and after being down here long enough to have seen the good and the bad of leases.
I made my decision to lease based on the financial condition of my landlord, who is richer than Gawd and won't be in need of additional funds from me. I won't be used as a "cash cow" in other words.
Another reason to consider the lease as relatively safe is the economy. The days of hoards of Gringos storming the border to bid up the value and price of everything in sight are all but over. Land developers no longer covet the waterfront packages as they did in the past, and that was a common reason for a landlord to "change his mind" about the longevity of your investment.
My situation is mine alone. I'm 70 and have no heirs, nor do I have any delusions that I can take it with me. I invested my money and my efforts only to satisfy the day, and I'm happy with that.
If my investment came to an end tomorrow, I couldn't care less and I'll carry on with what's left of my time.
The lease certainly isn't for everybody....neither is Baja so if you think one would cost you one minute of sleep, don't get involved with it.

One more thing to consider with a lease.....that wonderful little old landlord who offered you heaven on earth won't be living forever, so it's best to consider who you will be dealing with in the future. He/she may not be so generous.

Oh yeah....jes one more thing.......the lease situation isn't only for Baja. Mobile Home Parks throughout the states are run on the same basis and that says a lot about having wheels under your castle.

Not trying to sell you anything, but here's an idea of my investment:


http://micasaes.net/




.

[Edited on 1-5-2012 by DENNIS]

Lengua - 1-5-2012 at 05:30 PM

Thanks Dennis , Nice place.

Mike

DENNIS - 1-5-2012 at 05:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lengua
Thanks Dennis , Nice place.

Mike




Thanks Mike. I'm still expanding....now there's another building where the mixer sits. Not much room left for projects, but I'll find something to keep me busy. Maybe a carport if front of the garage.

Dennis

desertcpl - 1-5-2012 at 06:10 PM

yes its a nice place

if its any of my business, you are wanting to trade it, where do you want to live if you do trade

DENNIS - 1-5-2012 at 06:40 PM

No idea, Ken. Just thought I was due for a change of scenery. I started looking around, but never got real excited about moving....especially after the market collapsed.
Maybe one of these days I'll get proactive about making some changes. Til then, I'm not suffering here.

desertcpl - 1-6-2012 at 08:21 AM

thats good to hear

bajaguy - 1-6-2012 at 08:23 AM

We don't want Dennis to move!!!!!

Udo - 1-6-2012 at 08:41 AM

Cute house Dennis!

Islandbuilder - 1-6-2012 at 08:56 PM

That's a really neat place you've crafted for yourself Dennis. I'm sorry you have to even think about leaving it!

DENNIS - 1-6-2012 at 09:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Islandbuilder
That's a really neat place you've crafted for yourself Dennis. I'm sorry you have to even think about leaving it!


Thanks. I'm OK with however things work out.

Islandbuilder - 1-6-2012 at 10:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Islandbuilder
That's a really neat place you've crafted for yourself Dennis. I'm sorry you have to even think about leaving it!


Thanks. I'm OK with however things work out.


That's a very good place to be, Dennis. It will work out just fine.

Capkcon - 1-6-2012 at 10:40 PM

We purchased our house in Loreto in the late 1980s with an existing Bancomer fideicomiso. (Our 1979 fidecomiso was the second issued in Loreto—after Kimbrel.) There are so many great places for sale in Loreto at the moment, we would recommend buying whatever titled property with a fideicomiso that meets your needs. That way, if and when you sell you will have something of value that will have appreciated. Loreto is a fabulous historic town seeped in Baja history.

Mengano - 1-6-2012 at 11:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Capkcon
...we would recommend buying whatever titled property with a fideicomiso that meets your needs. That way, if and when you sell you will have something of value that will have appreciated. Loreto is a fabulous historic town seeped in Baja history.