BajaNomad - A deep hole at Laguna Chapala

A deep hole at Laguna Chapala

Bajatripper - 1-18-2012 at 10:21 PM

I don't find this hole interesting enough to start a thread on it, but a fellow Nomad did and asked that I post it.

A little background
In the 1940s-60s, my stepfather did field work in many then-remote regions of Baja. On one of his trips into the Vizcaino Desert in the 1940s, he came across an American geologist who said he was working for Pemex, doing exploratory work for the Mexican oil company. Among the things they did was drill test wells (of course).

In 1963, my family camped a couple of weeks on the southwestern shore of Laguna Seca Chapala while my stepfather did some investigating in the area. On an outing not too far from our camp, my mother Bajalera stumbled on what seemed to her at the time to be a bottomless hole in the dry lake floor. It likely isn't a ranch well, since the only ranch that I'm aware of in the "olden days," Arturo Grosso's (Anita [Mama] Espinoza's brother) Rancho Laguna Chapala, was on the north shore of the "lake."

After discussing it with her husband, it was theorized that it was probably one of those wells drilled in the 1940s, just left uncovered for any old cow to fall into.

Over the years, we had poked around the area looking for the hole Bajalera remembers, mostly to make her happy. We never located it. That is, until our most recent trip north. We meandered our way out to the lake as darkness set in, looking for a suitable place to camp. We found a promising spot, which I scouted in the moonlight, flashlight in hand. A mound of dirt caught my attention and I walked around it a bit before setting up camp nearby. It seemed to me that the mound had to be man-made. The next morning, my wife found the hole from which the mound had been made. It's probably the same hole Bajalera found in 1963, since we were but 50-60 yards from the old campsite.

On a trip to the cave painting region around Rancho Santa Marta north of San Ignacio, I came upon a similar, very deep hole right next to the road before it enters the narrow canyon. There is more than one way to Santa Marta, so it is possible to get to the historic ranch and not pass by the hole. But if you do see it (it's on the right side of the road), be careful. That hole makes my legs go weak.

For the record, that geologist long ago supposedly told my stepfather that the Vizcaino Desert is rich in oil.

Anyway, here are a couple of pictures of the hole at Laguna Chapala. For you, David.

The "discoverer" posing by her find.

I apologize for the poor angle, the photo doesn't do it justice. My wife refused to hold my hand while she leaned out to snap a better photo.

[Edited on 1-19-2012 by Bajatripper]

mooose29 - 1-19-2012 at 12:23 AM

It would be interesting to know just how deep the hole is, any guesses out there?

redhilltown - 1-19-2012 at 12:27 AM

"makes my legs go weak"....man, you got that right!!!!!!! You don't get many mistakes with these types of mines/holes...I hate em! Interesting report!

surfer jim - 1-19-2012 at 09:09 AM

Narco tunnel entrance....?

mtgoat666 - 1-19-2012 at 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajatripper
A deep hole at Laguna Chapala

the hole diameter seems a bit too large to be an oil exploration well... given large diameter, perhaps was a exploratory mining excavation? or could have been someones attempt at a hand dug water well

Pompano - 1-19-2012 at 09:45 AM

My guesses are:

A hand dug water well...or maybe a combo geological boring/archaeological dig (there are many in the Lake Chapala region). Both could have been done with a windlass, although at great risk of a cave-in with no shoring. Geological boring would be looking for sediment layering, thus the vertical shaft. A wild shot, though. Water searchers, most likely

Around 1976-77 Manuel Diaz dug a 90ft hole looking for water that myself and Blackjack found by water-witching the area on his property. He used a windlass to pull up the excavated dirt...no shoring..nada...looks pretty much like this photo. A very risky business.

The water supply he found was insufficient for his use...and the hole remains there today...hopefully still covered.

[Edited on 1-20-2012 by Pompano]

David K - 1-19-2012 at 11:57 AM

Thank you Steve!

As for the Vizcaino oil explorations, from the Lower Californina Guidebook:

Pg. 130) A wide, hard-surfaced road leaves Guerrero Negro in an easterly direction.

5.3 miles (from Guerrero Negro): The "coastal route" followed here branches to the right. This is the bulldozed road constructed by Petroleos Mexicanos ('Pemex'), the government oil monopoly, about 1959 when exploring for oil in this area.

Pg. 132, (35.2 miles from Guerrero Negro) ... Going right on this road takes one to its end at the abandoned Pemex camp, 9.2 miles.

(The Lower California Guidebook by Gerhard & Gulick is a fanatastic look at Baja as it was in the 1950's and 1960's. An updated version in 1975 & 1980 by Walt Wheelock and Howard Gulick includes the new paved roads of the time along with much the same from older guide.)

willardguy - 1-19-2012 at 12:21 PM

thanks david, just ordered the book.looks fun

Bajatripper - 1-19-2012 at 12:48 PM

Having read the comments, and actually "thinking" about it, one thing's for sure, I'm no Texan. You are are absolutely right, there's no way that could be an exploratory oil well. Even non-Texans have seen those in movies many times over.

Thinking about it further, mining wouldn't make much sense, in the sense that you'd have to deal with who knows how many feet of unstable silt that has piled up in that basin since erosion started its magical work before reaching any mineral deposits. It seems likely that if mining the silt were the objective, they'd do "open pit" mining, not deep perforation.

Archaeology is also definitely out. I've seen them at work, and this isn't how they do things.

So I'm in agreement with those who say it was likely a local effort to find water. It is located in the area of the basin where fluids tend to collect, but still has a little protection from some nearby dunes, a better ranch site than the old Rancho Chapala site.

Thanks for your contributions, all of you. I learned.

[Edited on 1-25-2012 by Bajatripper]

Bajatripper - 1-19-2012 at 12:53 PM

Thanks for the info on the updated version of G&G, David. I didn't know of its existence. I'll be sure to track on down, gotta have it.

Bajatripper - 1-19-2012 at 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mooose29
It would be interesting to know just how deep the hole is, any guesses out there?

If it's any help (as I'm sure it is for those who have a good command of physics), I started counting as a rock cleared the entrance and got to "1001, 1002, 1" when the rock hit bottom with a thud.

It's been a few years so I don't remember by how much, but the hole on the way to Santa Marta was much more impressively deep. Those rocks slapped around for a while before finding bottom

David K - 1-19-2012 at 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajatripper
Thanks for the info on the updated version of G&G, David. I didn't know of its existence. I'll be sure to track on down, gotta have it.

Sure thing Steve... I got to meet Walt Wheelock in 1984 and he had already started talking about a newer (but smaller) guidebook from his La Siesta Press called 'Baja Road Log' c1987. The Arthur H. Clark Company (the Guidebbok publisher) was closing shop.

In the Baja California Guidebook (1975), instead of the sectional road maps as before, there is a pocket containing three folding maps... Not as detailed, but it was one of the first accurate maps showing the true location of Hwy. 1... Have a look:

David K - 1-19-2012 at 01:55 PM

Here is Walt's 1987 Baja Road Log:

J.P. - 1-19-2012 at 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajatripper
Having read the comments, and actually "thinking" about it, one thing's for sure, I'm no Texan. You are are absolutely right, there's no way that could be an exploratory oil well. Even non-Texans have seen those in movies many times over.

Thinking about it further, mining wouldn't make much sense, in the sense that you'd have to deal with who knows how many feet of unstable silt that has piled up in that basin since erosion started it's magical work before reaching any mineral deposits. It seems likely that if mining the silt were the objective, they'd do "open pit" mining, not deep perforation.

Archaeology is also definitely out. I've seen them at work, and this isn't how they do things.

So I'm in agreement with those who say it was likely a local effort to find water. It is located in the area of the basin where fluids tend to collect, but still has a little protection from some nearby dunes, a better ranch site than the old Rancho Chapala site.

Thanks for your contributions, all of you. I learned.

Having grown up in West Texas and worked in the oil fields in west Tx and the gulf of Mexico area,that hole has nothing to do with the oilfield , I do agree it is probably a hand dug water well .

Vince - 1-19-2012 at 02:48 PM

I'm glad I didn't fall into that hole when I drove across dry lake Chapala in about 1970. The silt was so fine that I had to keep the windshield washers going on the VW van and the air filter plugged up. That was where the road took you then.

David K - 1-19-2012 at 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vince
I'm glad I didn't fall into that hole when I drove across dry lake Chapala in about 1970. The silt was so fine that I had to keep the windshield washers going on the VW van and the air filter plugged up. That was where the road took you then.

Even in 1973, before the highway was paved... the detour along the base of the new road went through the famous Chapala dust (silt)!:

We had been through Laguna Chapala originally on our 1966 trip to the tip, and all trips south after that were made on the gulf road (yes, Gonzaga's grades were easier to deal with than Chapala's dust)! In 1973, my dad traded his 4WD for that Ford LTD Wagon... We heard the pavement was almost done (in June, '73) so we took a chance the street wagon could handle what little remained of the old road for a trip to Loreto!

We were surprised that pavement ended so soon after El Rosario (near the Mision San Fernando road/ El Progreso) and we were off the new roadbed and onto the old Baja 1000 road in 26 miles, by Agua Dulce... and on the old road all the way to the Chapala valley (50 miles) where we met road crews coming north. Pavement began again in sections around Punta Prieta, but wasn't solid until about Villa Jesus Maria.

[Edited on 1-19-2012 by David K]

willardguy - 1-19-2012 at 03:49 PM

so how did the LTD wagon do?

David K - 1-19-2012 at 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by willardguy
so how did the LTD wagon do?

Fine, once we dumped all the dust out of the air filter!

Here is my dad and I at the pass south side of the Chapala valley, congratulating each other on making it through the Chapala dust bowl!:

Skinny me at 15, with Dick Cepek Baja Proven shirt on (I would meet Dave Deal who did that cartoon 28 years later).

Here's my mom... you can see Hwy. 1 under construction heading south towards El Crucero & Punta Prieta:

[Edited on 1-20-2012 by David K]

willardguy - 1-19-2012 at 05:42 PM

hey! me and your dad go to the same barber

David K - 1-19-2012 at 05:55 PM

He never got a discount either! :lol:

Ateo - 1-19-2012 at 06:49 PM

Great thread all. Interesting.

Bajatripper - 1-20-2012 at 12:31 AM

Quote:

so how did the LTD wagon do?

Nice photo of the dust bowl, David, especially given the vehicle involved. You already know of the vehicle my family made the trip in a couple of years earlier.

Something to keep in mind about that era; while many Americans felt that 4WD was a "must-have" item for any trip down the peninsula, Mexicans were regularly running down the same road in sedans to sell them in La Paz. I have a good friend, now in his 60s, who fondly remembers making many of those trips.

Bajatripper - 1-20-2012 at 12:36 AM

Great photos of your trip, David, especially enjoyed those of the family. Those were the days!

On that photo of the grade south of L. Chapala, I'm sure you're aware that that pass represents the peninsular divide, according to G&G. That's one of those boring little details I'm sure to point out to any newbie I happen to drive down the peninsula. It doesn't look like much as you go over it, just like the Continental Divide in New Mexico.

David K - 1-20-2012 at 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajatripper
Great photos of your trip, David, especially enjoyed those of the family. Those were the days!

On that photo of the grade south of L. Chapala, I'm sure you're aware that that pass represents the peninsular divide, according to G&G. That's one of those boring little details I'm sure to point out to any newbie I happen to drive down the peninsula. It doesn't look like much as you go over it, just like the Continental Divide in New Mexico.

YES! G&G even named it in the book: ('El Portezuelo, 2,300 feet'). Beyond that point, water flows to the gulf... for a little ways down Hwy. 1.

Marla Daily - 1-20-2012 at 09:53 AM

Good thing cars didn't have vacuum locks back then! Vacuum automatic locking door systems can take on a mind of their own when driving through Baja silt. A few years ago while crossing from the highway to San Nicolas in BCS, I had to cross a large deep silt patch. No problem in my 4x4. WRONG! Click. Click. Click. Click. The doors began locking and unlocking non-stop at first. Then intermittently. Later that afternoon, with keys in the ignition, I was locked out of the car when the vacuum system decided to lock-up again. Thank goodness for that hide-a-key! The problem eventually worked itself out. That's one I didn't expect!

goldhuntress - 1-20-2012 at 10:05 AM

Marla, is your car named Christine? I think it might be, lol.

vgabndo - 1-20-2012 at 02:04 PM

Marla, were you coming in from the Bahia? I don't know where to find silt on the road in to San Nic. from the goat ranch at Rosarito? Just curious.

Vince - 1-20-2012 at 02:13 PM

Great photos, David, they really tell the story. Wish I had taken more.

David K - 1-20-2012 at 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vince
Great photos, David, they really tell the story. Wish I had taken more.

Thank you Vince... try looking through old shoe boxes, maybe you will find some lost film?

I hope to convert my large box of slides from our trips in the 60's and early 70's... The ones above were slides I converted back in the 80's... but I have many more that will be enjoyed, I think.

KurtG - 1-20-2012 at 03:00 PM

Quote:

The view when going over that little pass southbound has always been one of my favorites.

Bajatripper - 1-20-2012 at 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KurtG

Quote:

The view when going over that little pass southbound has always been one of my favorites.

Mine, too. I took something like ten photos from this spot on this trip, the sun and the time-of-day were just right.

David K - 1-20-2012 at 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajatripper

Quote:

Originally posted by KurtG

Quote:

The view when going over that little pass southbound has always been one of my favorites.

Mine, too. I took something like ten photos from this spot on this trip, the sun and the time-of-day were just right.

Almost the same spot, nearly 40 years earlier! Cool Steve!!