BajaNomad

Police rip off in Tecate?

larryC - 1-30-2012 at 05:46 PM

I just received this email from a freind. He travels in Baja alot and has for many years. He is not a beginner. Here is the email I received:

I have enjoyed traveling in Mexico for many years. The people have always been helpful and pleasant, the country beautiful.
However, this last trip my wife and I made to Baja California was strikingly different. We crossed the border into Mexico at Tecate on the morning of December 27th, 2011. The border officials inspected our camper contents, and then directed us to the Visa office, where we purchased visas. We continued for a few blocks when the red lights of a police pickup truck went on. The officer asked for my license and registration, which I provided, and we stood together with another officer who was in the car and talked on the sidewalk. The first officer said I was speeding. I argued with him, told him that I wasn't speeding. He then said he wanted to look in the cab of the camper. When he opened the door on the driver's side, he searched around and found two pocket knives, the locking kind, that I had bought for a Mexican friend I was going to see in Loreto. He announced that it was illegal to have a knife in the cab of a car where it was close to the driver and within reach. He said having a knife was a felony in Mexico, and that I had to follow him to see the Judge who would decide the matter. My wife and I followed the Police pick-up truck a few blocks to what appeared to be a police station. Inside there were several other police officers, and I was directed to a small room where we all waited for the judge. Soon the "judge" arrived, a twenty five year old slight fellow in jeans and a plaid shirt. I was told then that the penalty for having an illegal knife in the car was 72 hours in jail. If however I wanted to pay the fine, I could be released without jail time. I asked what the fine was, and was told 5000 pesos. I asked how much in American Dollars, and he said 500 dollars. I sat in this locked room with the "judge" and the two officers for quite some time while we negotiated.
My wife at this time was sitting in the car parked about a half block away near the police station. I began to realize that if I did not pay the fine, I would go to jail and of course I could not take my personal effects with me, like my wallet, and they would take all of my money. Also, I was concerned about my wife waiting for three days in the car.
Finally, with no real choice, I decided to pay. I gave them 400 dollars, they said OK, gave me back the pocket knives, handed me my driver's license and registration, and opened the door and I was free. I was shaken by this, and my wife was visibly upset when I returned to the car.
　
I began to drive back towards Highway 2, and while my wife and I were talking, another officer on a motorcycle drove up to the drivers window and said we did not have our seatbelts on, and that is a traffic violation. I continued driving. In just a few seconds, another police pickup truck turned on his red lights and followed behind us for a minute or two. Then he disappeared and was gone.
　
The Mexican police are the face of Mexican law and justice; they have the legal power as well as guns, and can do whatever they want. Many tourists do not travel to Mexico because of the drug related killings. However, the police interact much more with the tourists they prey upon and extort money from and have an even greater negative effect on tourism.
My wife said that while this was happening, she looked for a badge number or name or some form of identification that the police officers were wearing, and could not see any. They were not wearing badges. All we could get was the license number of the pickup truck that initially stopped our vehicle. The truck said Policia Municipal; License number P-2358.
The above is completely true.
Sincerely Barry Mastro.


My first impression is that he got ripped off by the police. It sounds like he was taken to the police station and put into a small room where a fake judge (maybe an off duty policeman)was brought in. He was made to feel like he was going to jail, so he paid the fine and got out of there. If the knives were such a big deal why were they returned to him?
Does this sound like the normal proceedure to anyone that has experience with the police in Tecate? Is there not a courtroom or someplace where cases like this are handled? He wants to persue this further but is not sure how to proceed.
Any suggestions?
Larry

Udo - 1-30-2012 at 05:59 PM

It appears that Tecate is now becoming what Ciudad Constitución used to be (or still is).
I remember reading about the dog in the back seat of a pick up truck, and that it was against the law to have one there.

DENNIS - 1-30-2012 at 06:23 PM

Not that it much matters, but I don't remember seeing a badge on a cop's shirt for a long time. Maybe I just haven't noticed.

Tell your friends to keep getting the word out. Tourists need to know how dangerous Tecate is becoming due to the police.

Thanks for posting this, Larry.

Udo - 1-30-2012 at 06:48 PM

If anyone wants it, I have the Mayor's phone number.

(Come to think about it...I think I'll just keep it to myself)

rts551 - 1-30-2012 at 07:13 PM

So if I interpret this right, a locking Buck knife (if not used for work) would be considered illegal.

Ken Cooke - 1-30-2012 at 07:17 PM

On one of my Baja Grande trips (2006), our group traveled through Tecate and were shaken down by a police officer in Tecate. The reason for the Jeep being stopped was because he allegedly stopped at the corner before making a right turn.

As he pulled over (calling out over CB radio), another 7 or 8 Jeeps pulled over. I called out over my CB to the others waiting at Hwy 2 near the Warehouses to come back. The Jeeps stopped traffic completely in both directions while this Jeep driver was negotiating with the Police. While this was happening, we all approached the Police Officer to see what was going on. As he saw us walking towards him, he noticed the entire Blvd. blocked by Jeeps and he ordered us out of Tecate!

:lol:15 Jeeps hold that much power in Tecate!:yes:

Mengano - 1-30-2012 at 07:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by larryC
...he searched around and found two pocket knives, the locking kind, that I had bought for a Mexican friend I was going to see in Loreto. He announced that it was illegal to have a knife in the cab of a car where it was close to the driver and within reach.


But it is perfectly legal to put it in your pocket and walk down the street with it. :rolleyes:

Lucky thing for your friend he was not bringing his friend in Loreto a box of steak knives. He would have had to sell his truck to pay the mordida. :rolleyes:

Maderita - 1-31-2012 at 01:04 AM

I have heard, over a period of several years, that carrying a knife is illegal and must not be inside the vehicle. I didn't know just how serious it was until I looked it up!

A warning from the US Consulate:
http://tijuana.usconsulate.gov/tijuana/warning.html

"If you carry a knife on your person in Mexico, even a pocketknife . . .

•You may be arrested and charged with possession of a deadly weapon;
•You may spend weeks in jail waiting for trial, and tens of thousands of dollars in attorney’s fees, court costs, and fines;
•If convicted, you may be sentenced to up to five years in a Mexican prison.
Claiming not to know about the law will not get you leniency from a police officer or the judicial system. Leave your firearms, ammunition, and knives at home. Don’t bring them into Mexico."

My understanding is that there is no bail for a felony. That means that one could be in jail for a year or more awaiting trial.

Some advise that if arrested, it's better to buy your way out of trouble before going to jail. Once in jail, it may be too late.

edm1 - 1-31-2012 at 06:01 AM

How about kitchen knives? My motorhome is stuffed with knives in the top kitchen drawer. Now, I'm worried about going to Baja.

Lobsterman - 1-31-2012 at 06:33 AM

As I stated last week Mexico is getting to be no fun with the constant worry you have each time you travel south. Imagine if this mom's kid is found with a knife. He would end up in jail for years like my friend did for a trumpt up charge you have no control over. Even the defense lawyers are part of the scam.

"I would not allow my kids to go anywhere in mexico at this time. With the way
1. the authorities are shaking down gringos,
2. poor heathcare,
3. overcharging emergency care
4. the extreme penalty compared to the USA if someone has drugs or other offenses whether true or false. Either way you will have very little control and will need to pay a lot more there to get your kid back home.
5. a legal system where you are guilty until you can prove you are innocent at a large cost.
6. if jailed you will be thrown in a pen of wolves in very deplorable 3rd world prison system. Ever see the tv show "Locked Up Abroad", that's mexico's prison system. You will have to bribe many layers of people to get some money to your kid to pay of normal things in prison you need to survive like food, clothing, blankets and protection from the wolves. I know this from experience.
7. very narrow and dangerous roads from El Rosario to LA Bay especially at night and if the driver is inexperienced. Many places along the route the road is not wide enough for two large trucks, motorhomes or busses to pass each going in opposite directions other without one having to drive on the shoulder. Some shoulders are only iches wide before a deep ditch or mountain dropoff. I've been driving to LA Bay since the 80's towing an 8' boat in trailer and many times wondered how I misses that vehicle.

My motto with my kids is safety first. Why subject them to that environment. This isn't the Mexico from the 60-80s that you might have heard about. it's a new and every changing dangerous environment there now.

Therefore to answer your question, I would not subject my innocent, gullible kids to that hostile environment without going along myself and monitoring the situation. It's just not worth it to me to worry the whole time they are down there. it only takes one event to change your kid's life forever. If such an event happened in the USA at least you will have a better control of the situation with a legal system that you are innocent until you are proven guilty.

The comment that getting out of LA is more dangerous that mexico is just not true.

This is just my opinion from experience of going to mexico to fish and camp out often until a few years ago."

Lobsterman - 1-31-2012 at 06:54 AM

By the way my friend's 19 yo son was placed in a very large cell with a pack of wolves for over two years. The cell had no toilets just drain hole in the floor. His job was to use a bucket to pick up all the chit. Does that happen any where in our penal system? Mexican authorities or fakes can do anything they want to you down there. That's why my innocent kids are forbidden to even think about traveling anywhere in Mexico.

paranewbi - 1-31-2012 at 06:56 AM

"If such an event happened in the USA at least you will have a better control of the situation with a legal system that you are innocent until you are proven guilty".
Lobsterman...google InnocenceProject

hundreds of people shown to have not been guilty after being locked up for 10's of years. Some off DEATH ROW!
One University Survey of Judges, Prosecutors, Public Defenders, Attorneys, etc...reveals that there may be up to 10,000 innocent people in our prisons.
Mostly due to False eyewitness identification. Google that to.
The Innocence project gets over 2000 appeals for help every year...just in California! With very limited resources and volunteer help from law students, they can only take on a handful of those.

Good thing is, in the USA...it will only cost you about $80,000 to put on a trial to prove your son innocent if necessary. But even that may not work.
Maybe a bribe would not be to bad.

paranewbi - 1-31-2012 at 07:01 AM

Link to stats above
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/ronhuff.htm

paranewbi - 1-31-2012 at 07:04 AM

Lobsterman...
I spend every saturday in Donovan State Prison visiting inmates. You should study the system and aware yourself of the courts necessity to step in and stop the abuse. I see it and I experiance it.
I won't say its worse than mexico but i will say pain is in the eye of the beholder and is very relative.

time of day

jkruk - 1-31-2012 at 07:15 AM

any idea as to the time of day blasting off Sun/mon and really don't care to hear this as Tecate has always been my favorite

larryC - 1-31-2012 at 08:27 AM

jkruk
Not sure what the time of day was for this, but I would guess morning hours, I don't think Barry drives at night. I wouldn't let this one incidence stop you from traveling, but I would certainly be alert. Not that it would help.
Larry

unbob - 1-31-2012 at 08:29 AM

Another Tecate cautionary tale ... this was posted on another newsletter by some personal friends. This occurred around Jan 5-7, 2012.

"One thing we wanted to pass along was an experience in Tecate. We thought it was the typical cop wanting money but when we thought about it it may have been something different.

We got pulled over and told we hadn't stopped at the stop line. We denied it and requested him to write a ticket. I got out of the truck to look for a plate number for his motorcycle (there was none) and get his name and number (he had a name tag but no number). My husband got out to ask him to show us where he had failed to stop. At that time the "cop" gave up, returned our license and left.

The difference with this incident was he kept wanting us to follow him to the police station rather than just trying to get some money.

We wonder now if he really was going to have taken us to the police station or maybe somewhere off the main road where his buddies were waiting? Anyway, we just thought we would pass it along as a heads up."

Lee - 1-31-2012 at 08:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by larryC
They were not wearing badges. All we could get was the license number of the pickup truck that initially stopped our vehicle. The truck said Policia Municipal; License number P-2358.
The above is completely true.
Sincerely Barry Mastro.

My first impression is that he got ripped off by the police. It sounds like he was taken to the police station and put into a small room where a fake judge (maybe an off duty policeman)was brought in. He was made to feel like he was going to jail, so he paid the fine and got out of there. If the knives were such a big deal why were they returned to him?
Does this sound like the normal proceedure to anyone that has experience with the police in Tecate? Is there not a courtroom or someplace where cases like this are handled? He wants to persue this further but is not sure how to proceed.
Any suggestions?
Larry


Boy did this post get sidetracked. Perfect post though to discuss crime in L.A. and stats about violence in Mexico.

How about some experts checking in with options to what is reported here?

DK: who's the mayor of Tecate? Who's the police chief?

How could this story have had a different ending?

rts551 - 1-31-2012 at 08:37 AM

If the posts about knife laws are true, sounds like this wasn't a rip-off, but maybe someone got lucky they did not go to jail.

Oddjob - 1-31-2012 at 08:42 AM

Knives are illegal to carry on your person in Mexico and it can also be considered a crime to have one in your car if it's within reach. As is typical with Mexico's screwed up laws you can go to a tourist area store and purchase a pocket knife and be immediately arrested for possessing it. As for driving thru Tecate, pay attention to the speed limit signs. As you head up the hill toward Ensenada or start heading east toward Mexicali the posted speed is 25 kph which is 15 mph. The police have used this area of ridiculously low limits to pull drivers over for years. Even though you will be passed by a local going twice or three times the limit , you still need to just crawl through these spots.

goldhuntress - 1-31-2012 at 11:06 AM

I was involved in a car accident in Ensenada a while back and I did have to follow the police to the station and did see a judge there and got fined $20. I can't remember who I gave the money to. They did not leave me in a room waiting for the judge they took me to his office and he was there waiting. I think if it was a real judge he would have an office with a desk and files and other things that go along with being a judge. And he was about 50 years old.

wessongroup - 1-31-2012 at 11:10 AM

Good point Oddjob... as many seemed NOT to follow posted speed limits IMHO ..

Lee - 1-31-2012 at 11:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rts551
If the posts about knife laws are true, sounds like this wasn't a rip-off, but maybe someone got lucky they did not go to jail.


This is correct.

This story has some gaps but this is what I see.

It's possible the victim was not speeding and police stopped to scam him. He chose to argue his innocence.

Police search his vehicle, find knifes, and definitely want a fine paid. I think that could have been handled on the spot and the amount negotiated.

At that point, I would have negotiated to keep the knifes, and pay a fine for the police finding them.

I would not go to a police station or see a judge if I could help it.

I think this situation could have had a more positive ending, and less expensive. The fine could have been $500 or $50. That depends on the negotiating skills of the victim.

wessongroup - 1-31-2012 at 11:25 AM

Was coming back from Cabo once ... checking my stuff to board to go back... found a buck knife in my diddy bag... told them to "keep the knife" and boarded the plane ...

larryC - 1-31-2012 at 11:56 AM

Well, maybe the Tecate cops are just trying not to be outdone. Here is what is happening to Mexicans in Conneticut. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/police-chief-retires-connect...
Maybe we don't have much to complain about.
Larry

DavidE - 1-31-2012 at 11:59 AM

Regardless!

Here is an example of something that should be processed through SINDACATURA, and the ministerio publico with Baja California Tourism officials looking on. It does no good whatsoever to fork over money like this. If it happened to me, I would have upped the stakes by telling them to put me in jail. The penalty for possessing a LOADED FIREARM* in the cab of a pickup is less than 5,000 pesos! False imprisonment in Mexico is a delito federal, and a cop will go to prison for a year if they falsely accuse someone. He'll have a cell mate, the judge.
*with firearm permit

Wanna bet that the names of the interested parties are unknown? I still have the name after 5 years of a crooked cop David Gutierrez, who almost went to jail because he accused me of something I did not do.

norte - 1-31-2012 at 03:14 PM

David, its just another good reason to vacation in the good old USA,

TECATE POLICE SCAMS

Marla Daily - 1-31-2012 at 06:55 PM

I understand the pain of the victim here. Having crossed at Tecate coming and going to Loreto for years without incident, as previously posted, we were stopped on October 6 by a cop on the hill going down into Tecate on our way north. Our alleged infraction was dogs in the cab of the truck. The cop wanted us to follow him to "the station." We politely refused.

On our very next trip on December 11 two cops on motorcycles stopped us at the top of the same hill. We were headed south this time, creeping along in the slow lane with all cars passing us. This time two motorcycle cops in tandem pulled us over for allegedly speeding. Again they wanted us to follow them to "the station." Again we politely refused.

In both instances we out-waited them and were ultimately let go. Something is foul in Tecate these days! No doubt about it.

vgabndo - 1-31-2012 at 09:06 PM

Twice I have screwed up racing to the airport in Loreto and at the last second, with my baggage checked, realized I had my Leatherman Wave on my belt. The ONLY problem for me was finding someone who would personally hold my knife for me. In one case an Alaska person put it in their desk until I returned the next day, and another time, the pilot held it for me until we deplaned in LA. Sure didn't seem illegal to any of them!

Lee - 2-2-2012 at 05:54 PM

I'm amazed that more nomads aren't stepping up and giving an option, alternative, or half-hearted advice to the victim in this post.

He probably wasn't speeding, if that was the ruse for the traffic stop.

The other issue would be the knifes found in his camper, and the threats of jail at the jailhouse by the ''judge.''

If ordered by a Mexican law enforcement officer to follow him to the ''jail,'' and refusing, I'm guessing that that is in itself a traffic violation.

No help here for those passing through Tecate?

TecateRay - 2-3-2012 at 02:23 PM

Several friends were followed by local police last Saturday morning. All were experienced Tecate travelers and watched their speed. One was stopped and eventually ended up paying a $10 "fine" on the spot.

It has happened to me as well and it is a shame that Tecate is becoming the new "Ciudad Constitution".

akshadow - 2-3-2012 at 02:32 PM

I still wonder why he was buying a knife in the states to give to someone in Loreto? Are locking knives available for purchase in Baja? From original post

"When he opened the door on the driver's side, he searched around and found two pocket knives, the locking kind, that I had bought for a Mexican friend I was going to see in Loreto."

I have often had people tell me about having a knife as being illegal but had never heard of a person being held for having one in their vehicle. I must remember to pt them in the back of the truck.

DENNIS - 2-3-2012 at 02:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TecateRay
It has happened to me as well and it is a shame that Tecate is becoming the new "Ciudad Constitution".



Yeah...it does seem to be that way. Also...this routine of taking people to the station to finish them off with fear is a new twist. It kind of implicates the whole police establishment in Tecate as working in concert to shake down tourists.

Perhaps it's again time to start a campaign against armed extortion as Iflyfish/Rick did for Cd. Constitución. I can't help but believe that had a positive effect on the out of control problem there.

appeared to be ?

mcfez - 2-3-2012 at 03:25 PM

My wife and I followed the Police pick-up truck a few blocks to what appeared to be a police station.



Let me just point out that it's obvious when one walks into a Police Station. I question this statement deeply . I mean...did they march into a big ol store front or something? A small town station has distinct reality to them. Really....I think a true Police Station would be easy to say......"it was" and not "appeared to be".

Sounds like a few thugs putting together a scam. Were the police cars even real?

[Edited on 2-3-2012 by mcfez]

rts551 - 2-3-2012 at 03:49 PM

I guess no one is considering that the police legitimately enforced the law?

I think you guys aught to roar through Tecate, and then demand your rights when stopped. Oh and make sure you have a nice, big knife with you... hey maybe an open beer or two... Complain really hard how you are being scammed!

Hey anyone really know the facts in this situation?

signed...only pass through Tecate and been doin it for more than 30 years

gallesram - 2-3-2012 at 04:39 PM

rts551, you raise a legitimate issue about whether the police were truly enforcing the law because of a violation. The problem is, there is so much history of people getting pulled over simply because they have US or Canadian plates OR they're driving a rental car that the legitimate stops seem few and far between.

I get pulled over in Acapulco at least 2 or 3 times during a week stay (just happened last month); it's always the same scam. I have learned that if you really want to push things, you have to have your own house in order: you can't speed, you can't push the traffic laws, and you certainly can't be drinking or have weapons in the vehicle. If you do, then you give up your right to push back. But if you don't, then you should never pay a mordida since it just perpetuates the problem.

I passed a truck in Santa Rosalia once in an area where I probably shouldn't have and was pulled over by a cop who saw me do it. In that circumstance, I did pay a "fine" since I had violated the traffic laws and we both knew it. When I haven't violated the traffic laws, we also both know it and there's no way I'll pay anything.

Fred - 2-3-2012 at 06:56 PM

I will be coming thru on Monday the 20th. Will report trip.

Fred

larryC - 2-4-2012 at 08:48 AM

Most likely you will have nothing to report, (I hope) as it is with most who travel through Tecate. The few unlucky ones have stories.
Larry

J.P. - 2-4-2012 at 09:10 AM

Had to make a quick turnaround to the states yesterday through Tecate, we didnt see any police, but we did notice All the NEW stop signs. You wont be able to say you didn't see them any more.
As a side note there was a lot of construction activity in the areas where the Improvement's continue.
we got a new rock chip in our windshield that makes it two for two.:lol::lol::lol:

TecateRay - 2-4-2012 at 11:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rts551
I guess no one is considering that the police legitimately enforced the law?

I think you guys aught to roar through Tecate, and then demand your rights when stopped. Oh and make sure you have a nice, big knife with you... hey maybe an open beer or two... Complain really hard how you are being scammed!

Hey anyone really know the facts in this situation?

signed...only pass through Tecate and been doin it for more than 30 years


I know the facts of my personal experiences with the police there. I used to pay little heed to the speed signs - and I paid for it! I learned my lesson and let traffic back up behind me or speed past me now as I drive the posted speed limits. I have twice been stopped and told I had to go the police station - both times I said I would go, once I out waited them and had my license returned with no money exchanged, the other time I followed them for about two blocks before they pulled over and returned my license "so they could respond to an emergency call".

From my personal experience and first hand accounts related by friends it appears to me to be a continuing problem in Tecate. Not all the time, not everyday, but often enough to be worth noting.

DENNIS - 2-4-2012 at 12:36 PM

It just doesn't fit any pattern of sensibility that in a country where cut up bodies and heads rolling around like bowling balls have become redundant, boring news, that a man would be guilty of possessing, in his truck, a folding knife with a four inch blade.
Is this considered reasonable, efficient and judicious law enforcement? Or is it what I see as extortion and armed robbery?

It is clearly the latter and I see nothing wrong with accepting and treating it as such. Assigning "letter of the law" interpretation to events in Mexico is purely a tourist oriented endeavor by the police.



.



[Edited on 2-4-2012 by DENNIS]

Lee - 2-4-2012 at 02:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TecateRay
I have twice been stopped and told I had to go the police station - both times I said I would go, once I out waited them and had my license returned with no money exchanged, .......


Uh, what's that mean? You went to the station and ''out waited them''? At the station? And then what? No money changed hands? The cops gave up?
Quote:
.....the other time I followed them for about two blocks before they pulled over and returned my license "so they could respond to an emergency call".


So, you were on the way to the station, again. Were you planning to see the judge? Pay the fine? What were you thinking? Were both stops scams? Were you breaking any laws?

This scenario is different for gringoes coming through in an RV or camper.

This thread started with 2 scenarios. One was the scam stop for speeding -- I think it was speeding. The cop wanted the fine paid on the spot and the victim refused.

Upon searching the vic's camper, knifes were found, and the cop asked the vic to follow him to the station -- where the vic was told the fine was $500 -- and both the legitimacy of the judge and the police station were in question.

When the victim became nervous, or scared, the cops saw it and game was over.

$400? You got to be kidding! The cops must have laughed all night.

TecateRay - 2-5-2012 at 02:30 AM

"Uh, what's that mean? You went to the station and ''out waited them''? At the station? And then what? No money changed hands? The cops gave up?"

Reply- I never got to the station in either instance, the cops were obviously (to me) waiting for an offer of cash and when it wasn't offered they gave up.