BajaNomad - PSA: Possession of a knife on your person is illegal

PSA: Possession of a knife on your person is illegal

Maderita - 1-31-2012 at 01:27 AM

This topic came up on another thread, "Police rip off in Tecate?" I was surprised that several Nomads are either unaware or misinformed about the laws regarding possession of knives/weapons in Mexico. It's very serious business. No doubt the enforcement on knives is selective, yet the penalty is harsh.
"Selective enforcement" = police could let it slide or make a very serious issue out of it at their discretion or whim.

So, below is my re-post from the other thread:

**************************************

I have heard, over a period of several years, that carrying a knife is illegal and must not be inside the vehicle. I didn't know just how serious it was until I looked it up!

A warning from the US Consulate:
http://tijuana.usconsulate.gov/tijuana/warning.html

"If you carry a knife on your person in Mexico, even a pocketknife . . .

•You may be arrested and charged with possession of a deadly weapon;
•You may spend weeks in jail waiting for trial, and tens of thousands of dollars in attorney’s fees, court costs, and fines;
•If convicted, you may be sentenced to up to five years in a Mexican prison.
Claiming not to know about the law will not get you leniency from a police officer or the judicial system. Leave your firearms, ammunition, and knives at home. Don’t bring them into Mexico."

My understanding is that there is no bail for a felony. That means that one could be in jail for a year or more awaiting trial.

Some advise that if arrested, it is better to buy your way out of trouble before going to jail. Once in jail, it may be too late.

wessongroup - 1-31-2012 at 02:00 AM

Thanks for the info...

DENNIS - 1-31-2012 at 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Maderita
"If you carry a knife on your person in Mexico, even a pocketknife . . .

According to a knowledgable Mexican friend, it depends on the size of the knife although what he says is allowable is a miniscule tool....like a two inch blade on a folding knife.
Machetes don't seem to have this restriction.

Does anyone have any idea as to what is what in Mexico? I really tire of the confusion.

Ateo - 1-31-2012 at 08:27 AM

Guess I'll stop putting my knife under the front seat like I have for the last 20 years. Maybe I'll switch it out for a baseball bat.

choyero - 1-31-2012 at 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Maderita
"If you carry a knife on your person in Mexico, even a pocketknife . . .

I was told the same thing, the blade size is supposed to be less then about 3" I believe, but don't bank on it. Everyone I know in baja carries a knife for crying out loud!

How about a baseball bat, large wrench or some other dangerous duel use item.

bajaguy - 1-31-2012 at 08:42 AM

If you carry a baseball bat, also carry a ball...........

larryC - 1-31-2012 at 08:43 AM

Maderita
Have you seen the actual Mexican weapons laws? I have not but would like to. The word "weapon" is very ambiguous. A knife could certainly be considered a weapon, but a screwdriver is a tool, until it is held over your head and pointed at another person. I just wonder how the law is written and how they define a weapon.
Larry

DENNIS - 1-31-2012 at 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
If you carry a baseball bat, also carry a ball...........

Is that the law enforcement "rule of thumb" in the states?
I've heard that NOB a piece of steel pipe turns into a weapon if it has a taped handle.

DENNIS - 1-31-2012 at 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by larryC
Maderita
Have you seen the actual Mexican weapons laws? I have not but would like to. The word "weapon" is very ambiguous. A knife could certainly be considered a weapon, but a screwdriver is a tool, until it is held over your head and pointed at another person. I just wonder how the law is written and how they define a weapon.
Larry

It seems, once again, that we have been exmining this issue without seperating it from our US mindset....looking for logic, and order when we all know only too well that laws in Mexico are interpreted at the moment with pistoleros as arbitrators.
It rarely matters what the law truely says, or even implies. When they have you over the barrel, you pay.
Right?? Gringo??

bajaguy - 1-31-2012 at 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
If you carry a baseball bat, also carry a ball...........

Is that the law enforcement "rule of thumb" in the states?
I've heard that NOB a piece of steel pipe turns into a weapon if it has a taped handle.

My dog loves to chase a ball hit by a bat...................

sanquintinsince73 - 1-31-2012 at 09:36 AM

Just get yourself a tire checker. There are many different types and they can be a formidable weapon if needed. I personally prefer the wooden one with a strip of steel wrapped around the tip.

Mengano - 1-31-2012 at 09:38 AM

Lencho already posted what the law is in Spanish on the other post about the guy who got ripped off in Tecate. I'll translate the operative wording in the federal law, the states usually just mirror the federal laws:

It is illegal to possess "instruments that can only be used to attack and have no application in work or recreation."

Pocket knives are legal to possess, even in your car, even in your pocket. Fishing knives are legal to possess, filet knives in your tackle box are legal to possess, kitchen knives are legal to possess. They all have legitimate application to work or recreation.

What you have here, is typical of Mexico. Laws are not used to punish the guilty. They are used to extort the innocent. Every law in Mexico is a profit center for some cop, some judge or some bureaucrat. Do you really think the $400 that guy paid in Tecate went into the government coffers? Did he get a receipt?

The fines for illegal activities are also specified in the laws. In Mexico they use a multiple of the daily minimum wage to determine fines. The daily minimun wage is around $5, it varies by geographic region. The fine of $500 they told that poor sucker for having a pocket knife is 100 minimum wages.

Does anybody think that an ordinary Mexican would be fined 100-days wages for having a pocket knife...which is not illegal anyway?

Listen to Lobsterman. Mexico is just a big crapshoot. You roll the dice every time you cross the border.

[Edited on 1-31-2012 by Mengano]

Islandbuilder - 1-31-2012 at 09:44 AM

A related question; How about flare pistols? I assume that because they have the word "pistol" in their descriptrion that they're out. Yeah?

A good safety tool if you're broken down on your own off-road, but a formidable deterent as well.

Woooosh - 1-31-2012 at 10:04 AM

emergency flare guns are legal. They can also be easily modified to fire shotgun rounds.

wessongroup - 1-31-2012 at 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Ya heard of the "Golden Rule"... well, this one is about "Guns" and "Power" over your life ... one which I have always taken seriously both NOB and SOB ... or just about any place I've gone in my life ... where someone has a gun and authority, I listen very attentively and try and not upset them ... even if it's wrong ... just been lucky most of the time.. was only shot at by the German Police .. just once .. I learned to "Halt" when they said "Halt"... was 18

bajaguy - 1-31-2012 at 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
emergency flare guns are legal. They can also be easily modified to fire shotgun rounds.

Just once............the pressure generated by a shotgun round is way more than a flare

Try this instead:

http://www.gear-up.com/cart_showproduct.php?pid=10256

[Edited on 1-31-2012 by bajaguy]

DENNIS - 1-31-2012 at 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
emergency flare guns are legal. They can also be easily modified to fire shotgun rounds.

That said, and assuming it's correct, I'll bet you could find a hundred thousand cops in Mexico that will tell you they are illegal if they found one in your possession.

Sure hope this is true and correct

MitchMan - 1-31-2012 at 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mengano
Fishing knives are legal to possess, filet knives in your tackle box are legal to possess, kitchen knives are legal to possess.

If the above is not true and if possessing a filet knife in a tackle box in the cab of a truck, or on my boat in the water is actually a Mexican felony, I am out of here.

knife's

captkw - 1-31-2012 at 10:42 AM

THis Is getting ,,past,,being ____________

wessongroup - 1-31-2012 at 11:04 AM

The wife carries a machete, pepper spray and a stun gun when walking the dogs .. NOB or South .... we also carried "stun guns" along with the machete in the car and got inspected a numerous times.. with no problems... even got laughs out of the military when showing them how I would use it to defend myself... they let me and the wife go every time... individually or when together ... used to carry a buck knife.. .but don't anymore... couldn't use it if I wanted to .. in a fight

sancho - 1-31-2012 at 11:46 AM

A Machete carried by a Mex National would probably
be considered a tool, if carried by a Gringo, probably
a weapon. Have heard if carrying a bat, put a glove
and ball with it. Remember reading flare guns are
legal if you have a boat? Hell's Angeles NOB carry
on their person ball ping hammers, considered
a tool. Who said confusing, Immigration Regs, Fishing
Regs, Traffic Regs all clear as mud, I guess we all
know there are Regs for Mexican locals and the
rest of us P-nche Gringos

DENNIS - 1-31-2012 at 12:01 PM

C'mon folks. Coming across a gringo with a chickensheit pocket knife in his car is nothing more than a bonus for a cop. Why try to blow this thing out of proportion?
Letter of the law??? Spirit of the law??? Was the law [if there is one] written with this type of offense in mind??? I think not.
Avoid beating yourself up with guilt, remorse and future caution over the possession of something no more threatening than a fingernail clipper. You only open the door for more official creativity.

"What??? You have wire cutters?? You must be stealing copper CFE wire. You're guilty. Gimme dinero."

Dave - 1-31-2012 at 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Does anyone have any idea as to what is what in Mexico? I really tire of the confusion.

Been told by a cop that the rule for pocket knives or knives with folding blades is no more than a hand span.

Who's span then becomes the issue, i guess. :rolleyes:

mtgoat666 - 1-31-2012 at 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
The wife carries a machete, pepper spray and a stun gun when walking the dogs .. NOB or South ....

that's a lot to carry! how does she manage to have a spare hand to hold the leash and carry a poop bag?

24baja - 1-31-2012 at 12:07 PM

Quote:

Good point Larry!

Woooosh - 1-31-2012 at 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
The wife carries a machete, pepper spray and a stun gun when walking the dogs .. NOB or South .... we also carried "stun guns" along with the machete in the car and got inspected a numerous times.. with no problems... even got laughs out of the military when showing them how I would use it to defend myself... they let me and the wife go every time... individually or when together ... used to carry a buck knife.. .but don't anymore... couldn't use it if I wanted to .. in a fight

Tell the little lady not to drop the dog leash Wiley! This poor sucker got tased by a park ranger in CA. yikes!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46200273/from/RSS/#.TyhJGFzy9uI

Park ranger shoots man with stun gun for walking dogs off-leash

A California man walking his two small dogs off-leash was arrested after a park ranger used her stun gun on him. The San Francisco Chronicle reports that Gary Hesterberg was walking his two small dogs inside Rancho Corral de Tierra, which was recently incorporated into the Golden Gate National Recreation Area. For years, the park has been a refuge for owners who let their dogs run off-leash. However, all national parks have on-leash laws. "It was really scary," said Michelle Babc-ck, who said she witnessed the incident as she and her husband were walking their own dogs. "I just felt so bad for him." The unnamed park ranger reportedly confronted Hesterberg about his dogs. Hesterberg, who said he wasn't carrying his wallet at the time, allegedly gave a false name. The ranger asked him to remain at the scene but Hesterberg instead attempted to leave before he was shot in the back with the taser.

Babc-ck said Hesterberg had repeatedly asked the ranger why he was being detained. "He just tried to walk away. She never gave him a reason," Babc-ck said. After Hesterberg left the scene, the ranger"pursued him a little bit and she did deploy her" electric-shock weapon, said parks service spokesman Howard Levitt. "That did stop him." Hesterberg was then arrested on suspicion of failing to obey a lawful order, having dogs off-leash and knowingly providing false information, Levitt said. He was later released. "We were like in disbelief," she said. "It didn't make any sense," Babc-ck said.

[Edited on 1-31-2012 by Woooosh]

DENNIS - 1-31-2012 at 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh
"It didn't make any sense," Babc-ck said.

Now...I remember why young folks in the 60's were going around calling police, "Pigs."

wessongroup - 1-31-2012 at 02:19 PM

Don't think she will give them up... she used the stun gun in O'Neil's this past year on a Mountain Lion ... Just the noise was enough to scare the cat away .... she's not much on running ... from just about anything ...

yeah, those guys are still around .. even in Cleland National Forest ...

whoosh & all

captkw - 1-31-2012 at 02:40 PM

Hola,that happens a lot at ca state parks,,fricken N-zi's and you should ck-out the automatic weapon the state rangers have in the truck,,Holy chit !!! 4 0R 5 years ago on a state beach, a ranger shot a killed a 10 year old girls puppy in front of her ,on a beach in santa cruz...Oh,, and get this the 3 month yellow lab pup was " threatening the ranger" and not being on the leash !! I would have sued,sued, sued, had that been my pup,or daughter..K&T :fire:

wessongroup - 1-31-2012 at 02:59 PM

Yep ... corporal punishment for all... due to a few .. makes a lot of sense HUH !!

Barry A. - 1-31-2012 at 03:08 PM

To the best of my knowledge, both Federal and State RANGERS have had semi-automatic rifles, and shotguns, for at least 30 years--------Automatic weapons I have never seen or heard of in Ranger vehs, but maybe. Crime is crime, and the Rangers run into it too, so why would they NOT be armed accordingly???

People are sooooo funny about the things that upset them. Think what you want (of course), but Cops/Rangers are NOT paid to be open targets with no protection for their's, and others, safety, which includes being bitten by dogs. :rolleyes:

Barry

norte - 1-31-2012 at 03:11 PM

go for it. Sue em..it's the Amreican way!

Barry A. - 1-31-2012 at 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by norte
go for it. Sue em..it's the Amreican way!

To not obey a lawful order is a crime-------to resist an officer is another crime-------it builds and builds and builds-------which is why I always taught my kids to totally comply with an officers command with no back talk------PERIOD. That works!!!

Sort it all out later, in the courts if you like, but it may get expensive if you lose you case.

Barry

yellowklr - 2-1-2012 at 08:20 PM

Yeah for years I keep all my fillet knifes in the bed of the truck and out of the cab.....For protection I have a real nice tire iron and breaker bar.

J.P. - 2-1-2012 at 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yellowklr
Yeah for years I keep all my fillet knifes in the bed of the truck and out of the cab.....For protection I have a real nice tire iron and breaker bar.

I carry a Old Spud Bar in my tool box being a Iron Worker it's a tool of the trade and it makes a wicked wepon.

lizard lips - 2-1-2012 at 08:43 PM

I carry a flashlight that weighs about 4 pounds and is a foot and a half long under my car seat. I'd much rather have that then a 3" pocket knife.

Maybe in Mexico there is a law that all flashlights must be 4" long and weighs less than 10 ounces and must be kept in the trunk.

Next time I go through Tecate I'll let you know.

capitolkat - 2-1-2012 at 08:58 PM

Been carrying an old machete right by the driver's seat and every soldier, IMMS officer looks at it puts it back , smiles and gives me the OK sign. Been up and down the peninsula 3 times from La paz to Tecate 3 times in the last 14 months, 32 military stops, two stops at the border. The only thing they were interested in was a box that had a stetson given to me by friends in TExas.

It's clearly a tool- I use it from time to time to chop brush, tree limbs etc, and it's old--I never worry about it and have three filet knives in the tool box in the back and nobody has ever looked in it. They also are very well used and are also clearly tools.

Go with the bat...

El Camote - 2-1-2012 at 09:33 PM

Bat fight - it's a gentlemens' game

damn, it was supposed to embed here.

[Edited on 2-2-2012 by El Camote]

[Edited on 2-2-2012 by El Camote]

redhilltown - 2-2-2012 at 12:22 AM

Or to paraphrase W.C. Fields: if you carry whiskey in case of a snake bite, always carry a snake!

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy
If you carry a baseball bat, also carry a ball...........

bajaking76 - 2-2-2012 at 07:20 AM

I am leaving my pocket knives in the tackle box from now on! Sheesh!

----------------------------------------------------------------

PENAL CODE FOR THE STATE OF BAJA CALIFORNIA

CRIMES AGAINST SOCIETY SECTION THREE

TITLE I CRIMES COLLECTIVE SECURITY AGAINST THE RISK

CHAPTER I Carrying, manufacture, importation and possession of firearms BANNED:

Article 245 .- Type .- For Purposes of This Code Prohibited weapons are: I. - The daggers, knives, stiletto and other weapons hidden or concealed in walking sticks or other objects: II .- The boxes, brass knuckles, clubs, slings, belts with bullets, weights or points and Otherwise similar.

Article 246 .- Will punishable .- a month to three years in apply prison and fine up to one hundred days; Reform I. - When carrying a weapon from the previous article in Those. II .- Whoever Lawful Without a purpose or Without a permit, weapons collection Mentioned in the preceding doeth article, and Which the import, manufacture, sell or give away. In all cases included in this article, as well as confiscate the weapons are Sanctions.

ARTICLE 246 BIS .- .- exclusive of punitive Claims Will result in the exclusion of punitive claim, the carrier reliably verify Which That the instruments, tools or Covered by Article 245, are Used in the work home, field or in Any trade, profession or sporting activity, But Must STI limited to local use, route or area in Which the holder or devote Itself Perform Such Activities.

http://www.cjf.gob.mx/documentos/2011/HTML/DGDHEGyAI/Tortura...

Mengano - 2-2-2012 at 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaking76
I am leaving my pocket knives in the tackle box from now on! Sheesh!

ARTICLE 246 BIS .- .- exclusive of punitive Claims Will result in the exclusion of punitive claim, the carrier reliably verify Which That the instruments, tools or Covered by Article 245, are Used in the work home, field or in Any trade, profession or sporting activity, But Must STI limited to local use, route or area in Which the holder or devote Itself Perform Such Activities.

Here's a little better translation of the operative part:

"Article 245 BIS - Exceptions to penalties - Any person who can reliably demonstrate that the instruments, tools or utensils covered in Article 245 are to be used in domestic activities, field work or any trade, profession or recreational activity will be excepted from punitive penalties. But the use of such instruments, tools or utensils should be limited to the location, route or area in which the possessor devotes or carries out such activities."

That poor Gringo who paid $400 was just ripped off. Those cops knew he was not violating any laws. He was used and abused because they could get away with it.

woody with a view - 2-2-2012 at 09:53 AM

i keep a sheathed machete on the side of my seat with the handle up and available. every time through a military check point the soldier usually unsheathes it and asks me about it. i usually say "Para Ratas" and that gets a chuckle and i'm sent on my way.