jrbaja - 9-28-2004 at 08:42 PM
Anybody know if there are any in Baja ?
check the Lost Lake
thebajarunner - 9-28-2004 at 10:11 PM
Baja Vida sez he caught some there....
David K - 9-28-2004 at 10:44 PM
From the 'Baja Bible' (Gerhard & Gulick's Lower California Guidebook):
from page 108, beyond San Jose (Meling Ranch)...
There is good hunting for deer and there are trout in the streams. Some years ago an American named Utt carried the trout, then found only in one
river, to all the other streams in the vicinity, making it an angler's paradise.
David K - 9-28-2004 at 11:16 PM
More details from Greg Niemann's excellent book: Baja Legends, on page 139:
"Back in 1905, a native species of rainbow trout was discovered in the San Antonio Creek and a few streams of Baja's Sierra San Pedro Martir by Edward
W. Nelson, and was subsequently called the Nelson Rainbow Trout (salmo nelsoni)."
[this is the same Nelson who did the 1905 Baja map, as seen in my Notebook link]
The book goes on and mentions that a 1925 team from the University of California only found the trout in a section of the San Antonio Creek, between
the ranch of San Antonio and the waterfalls, 5 miles upstream. The trout was clearly related to the Kern River Trout and Golden Trout of the region
near Bakersfield.
The book continues: "Responsible for resurrecting the Baja fishery was Charles E. Utt, a person who could make things happen... Over the next decade,
he and the Meling brothers, Phill and Tom, had transported Nelson Rainbow Trout fingerlings to eight permanent streams... They did this by muleback,
pumping air into the cans every 30 minutes, day and night."
Niemann's book is one of the 'must halves' in your Baja library, available from Sunbelt Publications... DK
mcgyver - 9-29-2004 at 03:06 AM
Enrique Meling ,before he died ,,had a flourishing business in taking fly fisherman into a camp he had set up on th San Antonio River, He took about 5
to 8 people at a time for a week into the back country, drove them to about 4 miles passed Valladares which is east of the Meling ranches and then
Horse and Mule packed them down into the canyon for a weeks trout fishing a lot of which was from horse back and all ways catch and release. He had a
nice camp set up under the big cottonwoods and packed in the best in steaks and such for the fisherman. I was associated with him at the time trying
to establish a amatuer gold prospecting business taking people from the San Diego, southern Ca area to Valladares, EL Alamo and Ojos Negros for week
end prospecting trips. I lived at the "El Bramerdero" Lodge which Enrique had built for Quail hunters before the Goverment got so hard on shot guns.
Some times I did other thing besides prowl the Meling ranch which I had open acess to including the locked gated sections, I could tell you stories
about hauling the cowboys to Valladres to move pack stock and Mountain Lions and a bandit attack on some gringo trout fisherman that made a life time
impression on them!! ( It was a joke, ill conceived maybe ,but very effective, several pairs of shorts where ruined!) all the locals in San Telmo made
my wife and I part of the local family and the coyboys and gringoes where a constant source of entertainment.Live music every saturday! I used to set
there on top of the hill where I could see all the activity bothways up and down he valley and the tourists going up to the park pass my front door, I
wondered why anyone would want a TV when there was so much live entertainment to be seen.
Alas! All good things come to an end! The goverment and the United Nations Biosphere people where giving us too much grief about gold mining and the
pardners did not want to put in any more money, I had a bad family emergency and had to leave Baja for over 5 years.
But yes, there is trout in Baja and it does snow
elgatoloco - 9-29-2004 at 06:22 AM
mcgyver
You are a lucky boy! Wish we could join you at Malarrimo for some bonfire stories!
Last March we camped in the San Pedro de Martir. We met some folks from Tecate and Tijuana who had been camping for a month at the end of a road
behind a locked gate. They showed us photos on thier digital camera of trout they had caught. We visited with them one afternoon and into the night.
The uncle who was 50 had been going to the area for 35+ years, brought there by his father and uncle. He was there with his nephews and nieces to show
them how to 'guide' the area. The next day they were going up Picacho del Diablo.
Thanks guys
jrbaja - 9-29-2004 at 08:10 AM
some friends of mine just got back from a backpacking trip and said they saw rainbows.
As far as the snow goes, I X-country skiied at Laguna Hanson a few years back and Ski Baja used to be my handle until I lost a password war.
synch - 9-29-2004 at 08:21 AM
Could be Golden trout as the spots can be seen when looking down into a pool,
simialt to rainbows'
wilderone - 9-29-2004 at 08:59 AM
"...Mule packed them down into the canyon for a weeks trout fishing a lot of which was from horse back...."
That was because there were so many rattlesnakes.
bufeo - 9-29-2004 at 09:11 AM
Yes, there are trout in the mountain streams of N. Baja. I can't say that there are any rainbow trout (oncorhynchus mykiss) unless they
have be released into the waters.
You might see if Gorgonio Ruiz-Campos or Faustino Camarena are still connected to the Universidad Aut?noma de Baja California in Ensenada. They did
some excellent studies of the "San Pedro M?rtir" trout.
I've caught--and released--these little fellows as low as 3000' elev (January temps), but that was back in 1973. It's such a fragile fishery that
I've been content to just view them or get them to come to a "hookless" fly (as opposed to a barbless fly).
There have been several studies done in recent years on the smaller populations of trout and char. Not many weeks ago I read an interesting article
abour the Apache trout (here in AZ), the Lahontan cutthroat (UT and elsewhere), and the San Pedro M?rtir trout. Think the article was in
Nature magazine...I'm not certain.
That's correct Wilderone
jrbaja - 9-29-2004 at 09:25 AM
Because the roads were destroyed, they hiked 24 miles round trip and saw 9 rattlesnakes.
And all they took were pictures which I haven't seen yet.
They also said it was a pretty nasty hike for the most part.
Lost Lake rainbow trout
BajaVida - 9-29-2004 at 08:39 PM
thebajarunner has a chapter about the trout in his racing book, Racing's Real McCoy:moon:
mcgyver - 9-29-2004 at 09:55 PM
You guys have it right about the rattle snakes and the reason they fished from horseback! I was hauling the cowboys to Valladares one day when they
all started yelling to stop and jumped out and were stomping around, when I figured out what they were trying to do was put their boots on a big
rattle snakes head and catch him! I would not let them put hin in the truck! They put him in a feed bag inside of a saddle bag and hung it outside. I
was thinking how far it was back to the park road, 35 miles of no road, 4 creeks and 2 rivers and then another 22 miles to hiway 1 and then to San
Quintin if some one was bitten! When we stopped the snake was gone! These guys were fearless, they would jump a horse through willow trees along the
river so thick you cold not see the other side. The afternoon we got hung up with the Mt.Lion they rode 5 horses and led 5 more and 6 mules from
Valladres to Rancho El Coyote at night across country to meet a party to pack into San Pedro Martrir, it is 18 miles of canyons, creeks ,brush,cactus
and no lights. The cowboys at Rancho Buenavista thought nothing about riding horse back down to Punta Colonet for a few drinks and ogle the girls
before riding back to work the next day.
David K - 9-29-2004 at 10:15 PM
GREAT story Max! Keep'em coming...
mcgyver - 9-30-2004 at 05:29 AM
Thanks David!, elgatoloco. I know I am always very lucky! The story of why and how I met up with Henry (Enrique) Meling would take a hour to tell! He
was a strong vibarant man who worked very hard for his family and the Mexican people, he was the "Jefe" or "Bramadadora" of he San Telmo district and
took the time to listen and help everyone that came to him. When I went with him somewhere there was not a single Mexican who did not come forward to
shake his hand and he knew every one of them by name! Like at a saints day celebration at San Vicente for instance, not a few people! The man you met
up there is undoubtly one of the extended family. I am not the best at names or Mexican familys divisions and inheritances but there are at least 4
Meling ranches and they are not all in one contigus peice. Santa Cruz, headquatered at Buenavista was Enrique's , he had kids including 2 sons that
ran the cow part of the ranch. It lies NE of San Jose the Meling ranch that now belongs to Duwane, the ranch everyone knows that has the airstrip and
takes in guests.El Coyote Ranch which belonged to one of the uncles which lies NW toward the park and Mikes Sky Ranch, there is another and maybe
more. A great deal of all of them are under lock and key and you are indeed fortunate if you get acess to one and see unspoiled wild country with huge
buck deer and coveys of Quail that reminded me of a chicken yard, there were thousands and they could hardly be bothered to walk out of your way, also
lots of Mt. Lions and Bobcats, I did not own a digital camera at the time and every time I jumped a big buck or a Bobcat i could never seem to get the
35MM out in time and when we got the mules and Mt Lion tangled up at Valladares I was not interested in taking pictures! Where those people fishing up
est of Valadares? The road at one time went all the way to the park road , now it is destroyed between Valladares and El Potero. The road to the trout
fishing camp continues past Rancho Valladres and past the road to Valladares its self to a dead end where it has been destroyed, it then drops down
into Canyon Monarca and about 8 miles to the camp on the San Antonio river. Its not an easy trip by horse and no one beleives you when you say how
many rattlesnakes are in the river bottoms, I would sure hate to walk it! The road in to Rancho Valladares and the old ghost townis 35 miles of
rough,muddy, washed out trail with numerous creek crossings and willow thickets and its another 8 miles , 2 river crossings after that on very narrow
single track to the parking area.
Rancho Valladares its self sits in the bend of the river at the bottom of a very steep hill and is one of the prettiness spots in Baja, my wife says
that we are going to buy it when we win the lottery, I will try to locate a picture.Meanwhile I am posting a picture of Enrique and Fred from Punta
Banda and Meling ranch gold.
[Edited on 9-30-2004 by mcgyver]
Where those people fishing up est of Valadares?
jrbaja - 9-30-2004 at 08:05 AM
They weren't fishing. They were adventuring! They are bilingual Mexicans who know a gringo guide in Ensenada of all things. He took them up
somewhere in those hills (he didn't remember any names)but will be emailing me the info.
Max, I will let you know what I find out about this.
Love your history !!
mcgyver - 9-30-2004 at 09:20 PM
David k. I can not get the picture to come up? I like those pictures!
Jrbaja, I would sure like to know them. Any time you set foot on the ground in back woods Baja you are adventuring! One day I left Valladares and saw
a dim track were something had driven in the past. I followed it south from the Valladares/Park road for about 3 miles to the bottom of a canyon, We
stoped for lunch in the shade of a tree about 20 tall with a green vine winding around it , the vine had fruits that looked like short fat cucumbers
with spines sticking out all overthem, some where green and some were yellow. I got ou and picked a green one and had to cut it loose with my knife,
it was prretty tuff. I had no more sat down it the car and my wife and I were discussing the oddity when there was a loud bang like a gun and
something hit all over the truck like bird shot!! When we finaly got our heart rate down and found out we were not wounded, at least in the flesh, I
got out a determined that one of the most yellow fruit had exploded and scattered small black seeds all over! I collected a bunch of them and have
tried several time to grow then. I have heard they are called Chinesse Cucumbers but not sure and have never saw another vine like it in Baja. The
noise was at least as loud as a .38 or so it seemed at the time. That was enough adventure for 1 day and I back tracked to San Telmo.
Hahahahahahahaha
jrbaja - 9-30-2004 at 09:27 PM
We will work on the introductions in the future. That is hysterical
.
There's some mighty strange things goin on in them thar hills hahahahahahaha.
Too funny !!!
synch - 10-1-2004 at 08:58 AM
I have seen the same fruit in the San Gabriel hills near LA.
Grows on a vine and looks like a kiwi fruit on porcupine steroids.
Anyone know what it is? edible? dangerous?
burro bob - 10-1-2004 at 12:40 PM
Attached is a photo of a trout in Rio San Rafeal up by Mikes in 2001. There were tons of them, but nothing over 10 inches.
Some friends came back from a vacation up there a few weeks ago and said they didn"t see any trunchas. He said they were told at Mikes that the silt
from the fires up that way last year killed them off.
I hope a few survived.
burro bob
I'm pretty sure
jrbaja - 10-1-2004 at 12:54 PM
a few survived although not necessarily in the same stream. Thanks for the photo Bob.
mcgyver - 10-1-2004 at 02:30 PM
Bob, great photo, I did not check the stream at Mikes this year although Iv'e been up there twice, went up there in the winter in '93 and hiked up
stream and you could reach down under the rocks and catch them by hand, it was very cold!
Synch, Yes they are dangerous! To your shorts when one explodes, the Mexicans have a name for them but I can't spell it, When they are soft and green
you can peel, slice and fry them, of course you can do that to about anything!