BajaNomad

SAN FRANCISCO DE LA SIERRA

BAJACAT - 2-12-2012 at 12:50 PM

Don't see alot post about this place, I need help planning a trip i want to do at the end of March..The only thing I know is that I have to go to San Ignacio to get the proper permits..
where to go in the sierra, as far as cave paintings, any info will be help full,

LisaR. - 2-12-2012 at 01:02 PM

We actually did not have to go to San Ignacio to get the permits, although I had read that we might have to. There is a local INAH official that lives in the village of San Francisco de la Sierra, and he will issue them and take payment, unless regulations have changed. I described a trip up there in a trip report from 2009. It's about half way down page 2. I hope this helps!

LisaR. - 2-12-2012 at 01:10 PM

Correction: It's more like 3/4 of the way down the page...

LisaR. - 2-12-2012 at 01:12 PM

Sorry, I forgot to link to the post!

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=40484&pag...

Bajatripper - 2-12-2012 at 02:36 PM

Agree that you don't have to go to San Ignacio for the permit. We went to the Santa Marta area a couple of years back and were able to pay all the required stuff at the ranch (permit and guide). Since the exit (when coming from the north) for San Francisco de la Sierra is well before San Ignacio, that might be good info to know.

ElCap - 2-12-2012 at 03:41 PM

While you likely can get the INAH permits up in the Sierras, I would recommend going to San Ignacio at least a day in advance and schedule your guide & get the permits there. The office is just past the Mission - you have to duck into a little door opening in the old Mission wall where you will find a nice guy sitting at a little desk. You tell him where and when you want to go, and he steps outside with his sideband radio and radios up to the mountains to schedule your trip & guide. You pay some token fees to him, and you pay your guide directly for his services and use of his animals. The guide will provide mules (to ride - it sure beats hiking, in my opinion) and burros (to carry gear). You need to bring all your camping & cooking gear, food & water, and you are to feed your guide as well. If you just went up to the Sierras to do all this I'm not sure how fast they would be able to muster up a guide - they use a rotation system, and these folks are not just sitting around waiting for some tourists to show up - they are struggling to survive up there. It takes a while for a guide to get all the animals saddled up, and I doubt if it could all be done on short notice and be able to get down the canyon on the same day - and then you'll be camping in the rancho for the night. I have done this and don't recommend it, although it was rather interesting. I would recommend a 3-day/2-night trip so that you can see the big caves including Cueva Pintada and others. I've done a 2-day trip with just one night in the canyon and it felt too rushed, but it is a possibility. The ride in & out is spectacular and a real E-ticket, and hopefully you are not afraid of heights, as you'll be riding up & down some pretty crazy 'trails'! It really is one of the most spectacular experiences Baja has to offer. If you have more questions feel free to U2U me, and I can give you more specific info.

[Edited on 2-12-2012 by ElCap]

BAJACAT - 2-12-2012 at 03:55 PM

Thanks Lisa for the link, actually i want to do the tour were you ride the mules to the paintings..I was told San pablo Canyon holds some of the great murals..
Bajatripper, you are right from San ignacio to the turn off to SF is about 25 +/= miles.

Neal Johns - 2-12-2012 at 04:27 PM

Been down in the canyon (Arroyo San Pablo) out of San Francisco twice.

Suggest getting another couple to go with you to reduce price. Contacting the guides yourself is much cheaper (a fraction) than going on a commercial tour. Suggest five days total, two for in/out and three in the bottom of the canyon hiking to nearby caves. INAH assigns the guides from a rotating list.

You are expected to feed the guides/burro handlers.

Burros or mules will be supplied depending upon size of the rider.

Guide pay rates are set by INAH at local rates. Most people give a tip.

Take a water purifier to treat the water (unless new rules require you to pack water in).

Strongly suggest buying a copy of Harry Crosby's book "The Cave Paintings of Baja California", 1984 revised edition. It has great pics of the Arroyo San Pablo rock art on slick paper.

Search for it at http://used.addall.com/


Joke picture below of mismatch of large rider on smallest burro on first trip.

{Q}File0002 [800x600].jpg - 29kB

Bajatripper - 2-12-2012 at 04:27 PM

El Cap makes some good points in his post that are also worth considering.

boe4fun - 2-12-2012 at 04:48 PM

I agree with ElCap, he's right on the mark. Also when at the INAH office in San Ignacio they will radio the guides and let them know when you're coming up. It takes the guides just a couple of hours to ready their mules and burros. Also you will need to get permits for any cameras or video recorders you take into the canyons (I think there are 4 or 5 out of San Francisco de la Sierra and about the same out of Santa Marta). Best to play it safe and get all of your permits in San Ignacio.

BAJACAT - 2-12-2012 at 05:28 PM

Thanks guys for the info, I was thinking just to speend about 3 days, what can i see in 3 days..
and Neal already have the book thanks , thats why i want to go in person..books motivated people to explore..

what about Cueva El Raton...
El Cap, idea is what I had in mind 3 days 2 nights..

[Edited on 2-13-2012 by BAJACAT]

Neal Johns - 2-12-2012 at 05:31 PM

Cueva El Raton is alongside the road in and not worth walking 100 feet. Very faded and not representative of rock art in the canyon.

BAJACAT - 2-12-2012 at 05:37 PM

thanks Neal, I will look at my options...I really want to do this trip..

David K - 2-12-2012 at 06:41 PM

To read about the first 'outsiders' to ever see San Francisco (de la Sierra), I suggest reading Erle Stanley Gardner's 'The Hidden Heart of Baja' c1962 and 'Off the Beaten Track in Baja' c1967... Before the road up to there was built in the 1980's, the only way there was by helicopter or a 2 day mule ride!

San Francisco (de la Sierra) is along the Jesuit's EL CAMINO REAL between San Ignacio and Santa Gertrudis. It was a mission ranch or visiting station and a possible early choice for the next mission north of San Ignacio, which was scheduled to be called 'Dolores del Norte'.

When Choral Pepper arrived there with the Gardner expedition in the 1960's, she asked the local women what was the significance of the rather thick rock walls in the village. Their reply was "Dolores"... which made Choral and Erle Stanley Gardner believe that they had discovered a lost mission site.

The belief that the mission-era walls in San Francisco (de la Sierra) were from the Dolores de Norte planned mission was probably handed down from generation to generation. Before San Francisco (de la Sierra) was 'discovered' by Gardner, this village was unknown to most outsiders. The ruins of the visita of San Pablo (in the canyon below San Francisco) were believed by early travelers to be Dolores del Norte, and even INAH calls it that.

The facts are that when funds became available to finally establish the next mission, the benefactor requested the mission be named after his daughter... and Dolores del Norte became 'Santa Gertrudis'.

San Pablo was a visita of Santa Gertrudis. San Francisco does not have a good water source required for a mission, so the idea that it was one was probably just a myth that was started to explain the walls built before the site became populated by the Arce and Villavicencio families... who were descendents of Spanish soldiers brought to Baja to gaurd the missions.

Read Harry Crosby's 'The Last of the Californios' c1981

BAJACAT - 2-12-2012 at 06:46 PM

there is alot history in that area David, plus the scenery is one of a kind...
the only isue I have is how to plan the food, for me and the guide or guides,I don't know if it takes one or two guides..do i supply a tent or they sleep under the stars.. alot questions..

KurtG - 2-12-2012 at 06:53 PM

El Cap and Neal have given good advice, follow it and you will have an experience of a lifetime. I have a mild case of acrophobia but overcame it to do this trip. The paintings are spectacular but even if they were not there the ride and the experience of being in Arroyo San Pablo would be worth the trip.

David K - 2-12-2012 at 06:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BAJACAT
there is alot history in that area David, plus the scenery is one of a kind...
the only isue I have is how to plan the food, for me and the guide or guides,I don't know if it takes one or two guides..do i supply a tent or they sleep under the stars.. alot questions..


There has been many posts over the years here on Nomad and the Internet on the mule trips to the cave art in the canyons... Just search by clicking the Nomad search button (top left) and / or the Google search way down at the bottom almost (of every Nomad page).

dtbushpilot - 2-12-2012 at 07:39 PM

We went with an outfitter, Gary Marcer from Ignacio Springs B&B. While it may have cost a few bucks more than trying to figure it out yourself I consider it money well spent. I don't recall the price but it was reasonable. He provided everything needed and cooked all the meals for us and the guide and burro handlers. We had a total of 11 people includind Gary, the guide and 2 cowboys (mule boys? goat boys? I don't know what they would be considered). We had the trip of a lifetime, went places we would not have gone had the guide not been there to help and had a fun lunch at the ranch in the canyon on the way out. I don't think it would have been possible to set up a trip like we had by ourselves.































Paula - 2-12-2012 at 09:07 PM

Bajacat, you'll love going on this trip! And the riding and camping are so incredible that the caves turn out to be just icing on the cake!

http://www.tourbaja.com/horseback_riding_pack_trips_baja_cal...

If my link doesn't work just google saddling south, and go to tourbaja.com.
Trudi's trips are excellent, she has amazing guides, if you choose to go with an outfitter. Money can be an issue with this route, and El Cap's advice is right on for doing it on your own, going through INAH for your guide. I've only done rides with Trudi as I'm much too lazy to plan and prepare the food, and I don't have all the gear I would want for the trip.

A few notes:

You will need to hire one guide for each 3 people in your group. I looked into the cost of doing a trip without an outfitter, and you pay for each animal, and for each guide. So 3 people actually travel a bit cheaper than 4, though the cost of the guides is very reasonable. Feed them well, and tip them well. They'll be working hard, leading you on rides and walks, and dealing with care of the animals, saddling, unsaddling, etc. while you are relaxing. You may need to bring a Coleman stove or other camp stove, as fires aren't permitted in all camps. I'm pretty sure that all pf the guides up there have their own tents and bedding-- you don't need to supply these.

A good first trip plan if you can spend 3 nights--

Day 1: Go to INAH in San Ignacio, arrange for guides in early morning. Drive up to the Sierra, meet your guides, ride to Santa Teresa, spend the night.

Day 2: Ride back to Cacarizo, set up camp, hike to La Pintada and Flechas.

Day 3: Hike up San Julio, ride back to Santa Teresa.

Day 4: Ride out, drive out, and hit the road for home.

Have a look at Tour Baja site even if you're going to do your own trip-- lots of good information there.

Although the guides work on rotation, you may be able to request a specific guide. Angel (Puma Loco is a nickname) from Palo Rayo is one of the best. Few guides speak any English, but they communicate beautifully.

ElCap - 2-12-2012 at 09:12 PM

Yes, Gary has led trips in the past and I would highly recommend him, but not sure if he is still doing this. Kuyima Ecotours in San Ignacio also will lead a guided trip and will take care of everything, but of course this will cost you more (check their website for details). That being said, if you are comfortable traveling Baja, you should be able to go it alone. Here are some random tips I suggest from my limited experience of 3 different trips to both Sierra San Francisco and Santa Marta:
- if you are going on a multi-day trip, every guest should ride a mule - some people (crazy Germans, I hear) choose to hike the entire trip, but riding a mule allows you to look around and enjoy the incredible vistas rather than watching where you are going to take your next step on the loose rocks down the trail. Believe me, those mules are the way to go. You can always get off and walk when you want (and you will at times when the trail gets too treacherous!). Last year a mule was 150p/day - worth every peso.
- bring lots of gear to make your camping comfortable: tent, camp chairs, good campstove, whatever goodies that make you happy. Your guide has his own personal gear, and will likely sleep on his saddle blankets like he has all his life. The burros will carry all the gear, and (last year) cost about 100p/day per burro. Guide fees were 150p/day. Do the math - it's a good deal.
- bring good food, and lots of it - remember the burros pack it in, not you. Your guide will likely have a stash of food if he can't stomach the gringo food you bring, but these guys work hard and eat alot! Bring tortillas, chorizo, and huevos. Bring a guitar if you play it. Bring a bottle of tequila or brandy - even if you don't drink - your guide will likely enjoy it. If you drink, bring more, because it never has tasted so good. You should plan on bringing up water to the Sierras with you - ask in San Ignacio what the water situation is this year, but a filter works too as there is usually water down in the canyon. If you don't speak Spanish well, bring a spanish-english dictionary because you'll be searching for that word when your guide doesn't speak a word of english.
- bring a few pesos, because Rancho Santa Teresa at the bottom of the canyon has a tiendita that will sell you a cold cervesa (as cold as it can get in a small adobe shack). It tastes really good, and if you ask they will pick some oranges off one of their trees for you too. Priceless.
- from my experience there are two approved overnight camp locations in the canyon below Sierra San Francisco - at Rancho Santa Teresa and further down the canyon below a rock formation called el Cacarizo. The latter is preferred in my opinion, as it is right on the river and in the midst of all the caves.
- bring a gift for your guide. A good tip is nice too, and we always give all our leftover food to the rancho when we leave. This trip will cost you relatively nothing compared to what you get out of it, and after seeing how hard life is for these wonderful people who struggle to live up there, you'll want to give them everything you have.
- enjoy a trip that will rival just about any adventure you can do on this planet.

ElCap - 2-12-2012 at 09:25 PM

Yes, I think Paulina is right about 1 guide per 3 guests - that was the way it was for us. Kind of an odd number - I thought it was because our guide only owned 4 mules. But that makes sense after seeing how hard the guide works. Most guests are not really experienced 'muleros', so your guide has alot to do keeping all the animals/people together. When I went last time with two friends, we rented 3 mules to ride and 3 burros that were fully loaded with all our gear, but the guide brought a fourth burro which he called his spare tire, just in case one of the burros fell off the canyon wall. Luckily he wasn't needed.

Sierra San Francisco Packtrip info-IMPORTANT!!!

Baja Bucko - 2-12-2012 at 10:28 PM

I will bring this topic up again as I did months ago regarding the seriousness of the situation in the San Franciscos. There has been little rain and the animals are still starving. Yes, the people need the tourists to come as there is no cheese production due to no feed and mountain lions. PLEASE go see the cave art BUT be sure that WHOEVER is in charge-whether it is you or a tour operator-BRING HAY FOR THE MULES & PACK ANIMALS!!!

Understand that the mule you may get to ride might not have had much to eat if the tour operator isn't up on this and the last thing you need is a weak animal. Trudi, of Saddling South, has hay hauled/packed in for the animals used on her trips and is very aware of the situation. I don't know about other tour operators so please make inquiries and see if feed has been hauled in for your animals. Using a tour operator gets a smoothly-run trip with good food for all people and a quality experience. If your tour person is not concerned about the availability of animal feed-and places like Cacarizo etc have NOTHING for the animals to eat-think twice.

It is so easy to just think that everything will be taken care of by the tour person BUT if they are NOT getting feed hauled in BEFORE the animals are used or at locations on the trail, it is not a good situation.

If you are running your own show please think about picking up a couple of bales of alfalfa in Vizcaino (if it is available-because everybody is using it!) and telling the guys on the radio that you will need an extra animal to bring in feed. The vaqueros will appreciate having food for the animals.

Now just because the hay is there doesn't mean the animals get to pig out. Underfed animals given access to too much rich feed (ie alfalfa) translates to ill or dead animals. The vaqueros are up on this and they don't want to lose any valuable animals. They know their job.

So many times people will say yea-I went to see the cave paintings and then all they see is Pintada and the others in that canon-there are hundreds of sites in that mountain range alone and yes, Pintada is the motha of all BUT my favorite is San Gregorio 1....heheheh...and I've spent years ridng those trails.

Go-have the trip of a lifetime but please BRING HAY!!!!

I will be riding "the range" for the month of March so if we meet, say "howdy".....

ItsallIwannado.............

Paula - 2-12-2012 at 10:41 PM

Harrrrrumffff!!!

There is Paulina, and there is Paula. Paulina has not posted on this thread, but Paula has. Ironically Paula's bith name is Paulina, but she has not been called that since she was 13, though it is a lovely name-- until she signed on as a Nomad.:fire::lol:

ElCap - 2-13-2012 at 08:12 AM

Oops, sorry Paula, didn't intentionally do that!:no:

boe4fun - 2-13-2012 at 10:22 AM

When we visited we had 4 people in our group. We visited Santa Theresa canyon, and were supplied with 4 burros, 4 mules, and 2 guides (each with his own mule). We packed in steaks on dry ice in a thick foam container, enough for the entire group (we were told in San Ignacio to provide food for the guides on the trip). It took us about 6 hours to ride in, spent 2 nights at a base camp where we hiked to the several caves in that particular canyon, and then another 6 hour (plus or minus) ride back out. I don't know if a 3 day trip is available or advisable.

BAJACAT - 2-14-2012 at 08:19 PM

wow thanks everybody for all the information thats why I love bajanomad, we share all our trip details...

for people that doesn't know me, english is my second language, being spanish my native one, I was raise in Tijuana went to Rosarito beach for junior high, and I did my high school education in Sweet Water High in National City, so comunication will not be and issue, but thanks for the advice...
Baja bucko, I will rember about the feed for the animals, Im riding in a big RAM truck, so I will have the room for it...

thanks to Baja Bucko, Paula, El cap (David, dtbushpilot), Neal KurtG,DK, Bajatripper I hope I didn't forget anybody... I will have a week for this trip ..

[Edited on 2-15-2012 by BAJACAT]

bacquito - 2-16-2012 at 08:25 AM

Interesting discussion, thanks to all

Hook - 2-16-2012 at 02:49 PM

Any thoughts on what would be the ideal month for these trips? What elevation do the trips terminate at, generally?

ElCap - 2-16-2012 at 03:26 PM

I have done trips in late November and in late March, and both were very pleasant weather. This year drought conditions are pretty bad up there as Baja Bucko discussed earlier, but in a better rain year you might have more water in the canyon, and more green in your scenery in the late Fall. March is a pleasant weather window too - although we got hit by a freak rain and windstorm one night on that trip. I think Sierra San Francisco is about 5000' elevation, but you actually hike down 1000-1500' into the canyons where the cave paintings are. If you go on to San Gregorio or other places you'll be at higher elevation, and possibly more exposed. It can get pretty darn cold at night up there - I like sleeping under the stars, but a tent is a good idea to have with you for those inclement nights. I would think the summer months might be pretty hot during the day, and I sure wouldn't want to get caught in a hurricane deluge up there, even though god knows they really need it.

BAJACAT - 2-28-2012 at 06:13 PM

i have seen alot pix, but no kids .it's this adventure tenager friendly.?
I have a 12 yr old girl and a 15 yr old boy...

mtgoat666 - 2-28-2012 at 06:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BAJACAT
i have seen alot pix, but no kids .it's this adventure tenager friendly.?
I have a 12 yr old girl and a 15 yr old boy...


depends on the teens. if they like riding mules and camping and getting dirty exploring canyons and brush, they will like the trip.

the trails are really a difficult hike, quite rocky, and newbies on mule back sometimes get sore and do end up smelling of mule,... some teens may not like that (it ain't the hilton!)

that said, i know some teens that dig it

BajaRat - 2-28-2012 at 08:58 PM

DT, after seeing the pics I'm jonesn:tumble:

BAJACAT - 2-28-2012 at 10:30 PM

thanks, my kids are avid campers, so I think they should be ok..
I was just wondering, Thanks..

Bug - 2-29-2012 at 08:18 PM

I was at Hostal Buenaventura last week. This is were they will give you the tours for the cave paintings that you where asking about. There email address is

www.sierrasanfrancisco.com

Telephone number is 01 (615) 1 56 47 47 ask for Ramon

They had two rooms with two set of bunk beds in each room, take a warm sleeping bag. They have hot showers. The rooms was very clean. The cost per night per person was $150. Dinner was $10.00, lunch $8.00 and breakfeast was $6.00 us dollars. They can not do enough for you there, they are very poor. While I was there they where having a meeting with the la Paz goverment people who came to visit with them. The ranchers where saying they need to learn english to make more money, for they speak no english.

I am going at the end of April, for it was a cold night, my down sleeping bag, three blankets and a hot water bottle in the sleeping bag I finally got warm. In the morning there was a solid sheet of ice on my jeep windows.

larryC - 3-1-2012 at 08:47 AM

Bug
You must mean 150 pesos pere person not 150 dollars US per person, Tell me it ain't so.

mtgoat666 - 3-1-2012 at 09:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bug


www.sierrasanfrancisco.com



nice website. hostel looks interesting. was it crowded? how is food? any bedbugs?

Bug - 3-1-2012 at 07:56 PM

The cost per night is 150 pesos.. Sorry about that..

Bug - 3-1-2012 at 08:07 PM

The hostel was very clean, they have a thin sleeping bag on top of a sheet, nice clean pillows. The rooms where very clean. I was the only crazy one to be there at that time of the year. The gal cook me chicken, salad, rice, beans and french fries. for dinner. I had in the morning, mexican eggs. And the food was really good.

I have travel around the world, and thought wow this is a hidden place people have not found how great it is yet. 30 miles of pave road and 30 miles of rough dirt road to the ranch.

The only thing.. they have one cave painting you can walk up to very easy by the Hostel. All the other cave painting you must take a mule ride for a few days. Since I did not know this, I did not have time to stay a few more days. But it was cold at night that night I was there.

I am hoping I will be returning back some time soon to stay a while and ride the mules to the different cave paintings. The people only speak spanish only.

BAJACAT - 3-1-2012 at 11:18 PM

Thank you Bug...
for the info...
with a 2 night stay , how many caves can I visit..
and what caves are the best ones..

[Edited on 3-2-2012 by BAJACAT]

Bug - 3-2-2012 at 12:33 AM

I have not seen all the caves, only the one close to the hostel. I was hoping to see them when I was there a few weeks ago. This is when I found out that I need at least two days to go and see one or two caves.

I would say to call them or email them..

buenaventuralhostal@gmail.com

They have a computer there and they do check there emails. I seen that you do speak spanish so this will be a big help. When you email use your spanish.

I want to go to the caves here soon, hoping some of by San Felipe friends will want to go and ride the mules for a few days.

I think any caves you see will be wonderful. I have Harry crosby book with all the information on the caves and a lot of history of the area. After reading his book, this is why I wanted to see these caves.

Bug - 3-2-2012 at 08:22 PM

BajaCat,

After your trip, please let me know the cost and what kind of different trips they have. I would like to know what you think of the trip.

BAJACAT - 3-5-2012 at 10:20 PM

ok i will...truck is ready to go..Im ready to go..
Now if I have time I will like to on the way back to stop and visit Santa Gertrudis mission..does somebody knows the easy way to reach the mission...alot people use the Arco way..it's sign all the way to the mission...
Dk,,,Need your help om this one...

David K - 3-6-2012 at 04:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BAJACAT
ok i will...truck is ready to go..Im ready to go..
Now if I have time I will like to on the way back to stop and visit Santa Gertrudis mission..does somebody knows the easy way to reach the mission...alot people use the Arco way..it's sign all the way to the mission...
Dk,,,Need your help om this one...


Hello Jose!
The fastest/ easiest way to Mision Santa Gertudis is to use the Ejido Guillermo Prieto road from Hwy. 1, about 7-8 miles north of Vizcaino... between Km. 153 and 154.



This is also the 'shortcut' to Bahia de los Angeles, San Rafael, Punta San Francisquito if coming from the south.



Here is a topo map showing the location of EL CAMINO REAL northbound from Santa Gertudis... with the shortcut road drawn in.



Arrows with numbers point to El Camino Real, numbers indicate satellite images of the mission road, posted on Nomad. See http://vivabaja.com/missions4


Just as it shows on the AAA map, you make a sharp left turn from the graded road going due east, to go into the center of the the village of Guillermo Prieto... and you drive right through town heading straight north...

At the state border is a fence with a sign indicating the change from Mountain Time to Pacific Time (at least there was in Dec. 2001). Soon, you come to a big cross road... Turn right for the mission, left for El Arco, and straight ahead for L.A. Bay.

USING GPS: Set your GPS map datum to NAD27 Mexico before entering... then you can go back to the factory setting of WGS84... which is what Google Earth uses.

GPS data (set unit to Map Datum 'NAD27 Mexico'):

North to south:

L.A. Bay South to Hwy. 1...

Diaz' at L.A. Bay: 28°56.76'/ 113°33.51'

Camp Gecko: 28°54.04'/ 113°31.69'

Las Flores: 28°49.08'/ 113°31.73'

Jcn. Old Rd. (north end): 28°40.72'/ 113°25.41'

Bahia Las Animas Rd. (N): 28°40.52'/ 113°21.72', (Las Animas: 28°48.57'/ 113°21.34')

Bahia San Rafael Jcn: 28°34.78'/ 113°07.41'

Jcn. Old Rd. (south end): 28°26.05'/ 113°10.41'

Jcn. Old El Arco Rd. (go east): 28°20.77'/ 113°01.82'

Jcn. New Rds. (east to S. Francisquito, south to El Barril or Hwy.1): 28°21.08'/ 113°00.33'

Jcn. at El Progreso (south to El Barril, west to Hwy.1): 28°20.58'/ 113°00.33'

Top of Cuesta de la Ley: 28°17.71'/ 113°06.14'

Fork, ahead/west for El Arco, turn left/south for new road to Hwy.1: 28°10.42'/ 113°13.08'

Crossroad, south to state border and Hwy.1, east to Mision Sta. Gertrudis (& next 3 waypoints): 28°01.45'/ 113°14.45'
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Rancho Miraflores: 28°01.45'/ 113°13.76'

Rancho Guadalupe: 28°02.36'/ 113°09.33'

Mision Santa Gertrudis: 28°03.05'/ 113°05.05'
-----------------------------------------------------------------
State Border, Mountain Time Zone: 28°00.00'/ 113°16.16'

Guillermo Prieto: 27°50.62'/ 113°17.84'

'T' Jcn., turn west: 27°49.97'/ 113°17.94'

Hwy. 1 Jcn. (south-east to Vizcaino): 27°43.41'/ 113°27.23'




[Edited on 3-7-2012 by David K]

BAJACAT - 3-7-2012 at 10:15 PM

thanks. DK..thats look like short cut...save me some time...
to see more things..

BAJACAT - 3-12-2012 at 08:17 PM

Ok this is what I have so far, I have contact them by e-mail..
for a 3 day tour, visiting 5 caves
LA PINTADA
LA SOLEDAD
LAS FLECHAS
BOCA DE SAN JULIO
LOS MUSICOS
6 OF US, SO 6 MULES 2 GUIDES AND THEIR MULES( i GUESS I HAVE TO PAY FOR THEIRS TOO).
5 BURROS TO CARRIE THE GEAR, PERMITS(INAH), AND CAMERA..PERMIT.
YOU ARE LOOKING AT $7,500 PESOS MORE OR LESS THAT IN USA MONEY AT 12 PESOS PER DOLLAR RATIO COMES TO $625 DOLLARS..
iM ready to go,,truck as brand new DUELER A/T REVO 2, LT BY BRIDGESTONE.new upper control arms(the price you have to pay for using big tires)..
gear is ready to be pack in..
see you in BAJA

David K - 3-13-2012 at 08:20 AM

A 3 day tour for $108.34 per person sounds great... Looking forward to your trip report and photos!

BAJACAT - 3-13-2012 at 09:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
A 3 day tour for $108.34 per person sounds great... Looking forward to your trip report and photos!
YES David my family is all work up over this trip, specially the mule ride...
Im buying a new SD card for my camera, so I don't have any issues..like the old one..

BAJACAT - 3-17-2012 at 01:46 PM

5 more days and of to Baja...from San Francisco de la Sierra Im hitting Mulege, any nomads will be around Mulege on this days march 28-30.. I will buy you a beer,,maybe some penuts...:lol:

Bug - 3-17-2012 at 04:38 PM

Bajacat, I am leaving this tuesday from San Felipe to San Francisco. We will be riding our mules on Wed 21st of March..

I tried to call San Francisco to let them know that I am coming.. Wish I could speak Spanish...

Did they say you needed to bring your own water and food... Since I don't speak spanish. did not get all the details. What things did they say to bring for the trip.. You can email if you wish..cblair7639@aol.com...

Phil C - 3-18-2012 at 05:27 AM

Looks like they got some much needed rain down there, it should be nice. Yes you need to bring your own water, food and cooking equipment,enough for your guides too. Take plenty, you can allways load up another burro.

Bug - 3-18-2012 at 06:52 AM

Thank you Phil...I can use all the help I can..

When I called yesterday, there was some one guy who had just returning from a 7 day trip there. He said there was water in the streams there. But I am planning to bring water. The guy said if you sleep on the top of the mountains it's cold, but if you sleep down in the canyons it is much warmer.

The guy also mention about the cost, he said he paid almost Two thousand dollars for 2 or 3 people for this trip. And he said he wish he when he could of came up there and made his own arrangements there, for the prices is much, much cheaper.

Thanks for the help phil once again..

sd - 3-18-2012 at 09:44 AM

Hi Jose!

Wishing you and your family a fantastic trip. Sounds like so much fun, I look forward to hearing about your trip.

Scot

BAJACAT - 3-18-2012 at 11:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by sd
Hi Jose!

Wishing you and your family a fantastic trip. Sounds like so much fun, I look forward to hearing about your trip.

Scot
THANK you Scot, say hi to your dauther..
and yes we will have a good trip..

PS.Bug, do you want me to call Ramon or yadira to let them know your coming on the 21th..

BAJACAT - 3-18-2012 at 11:29 AM

Bug, for 6 people on a 3 day trip, I was given an estimate of $625 +/-
and yes bring your own food and water, unless you want to drink from the arroyo..you also pay for the guides mule...and must supply their meals..I will have 2 guides it's one guide per 3 people..I will arrive on the 24th ,you will still be there in SF de La Sierra...?

Bug - 3-18-2012 at 05:44 PM

Bajacat,

Yep.. I should still be there on the 24th. I hoping to return back to San Felipe Sunday or Monday..

I will look for you at the ranch house or down in the mountains on your mule.

BAJACAT - 3-18-2012 at 07:25 PM

sweet, I get to meet another nomad in Baja, look for the big red RAM truck,, that would be me...or look for the mexican(yes people im mexican):lol: wearing a Gonzaga cap, that also would be me...:lol::lol:


[Edited on 3-19-2012 by BAJACAT]

Bug - 3-18-2012 at 07:49 PM

Look for my green 1993 jeep, with the kayak racks on the roof of it..

You will see that this is my desert jeep, for it has the best pen striping on it..

BAJACAT - 3-18-2012 at 07:54 PM

ok will do,so do you want me to call SF de La Sierra for you to tell them you will be there on the 21th..

Bug - 3-18-2012 at 08:14 PM

Baja Cat,

That would be wonderful if you would call them for me.

Will arrive this tuesday and spend the night in one of the rooms on there bunk beds.

Would like to leave on our mule ride Wed morning, we would like to go out for 3 or 4 nights. We can talk to them about that tuesday.

There will be two people only.

Please let them know we were the ones who called Saturday, trying to speak our little of spanish to them.

BajaBlanca - 3-18-2012 at 08:22 PM

wow !! jose, I never saw this posting or I could have called for you too ...and not only that, I so want to go and visit the paintings too ....

regarding the cueva del raton - we love it - from our house it is a day trip. the drive up is gorgeous. the cave is within 5 min walking once you get out of the car. it is small but it is really beautiful. we took a picnic basket with food and sat on a mountain looking at the sea of cortez faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar in the distance. bee you tee fool.

the cholla jump on you as you walk to the view of sea of cortez - that was my first experience with them and they really do seem to jump

:O

have a wonderful trip amigos !!!

[Edited on 3-19-2012 by BajaBlanca]

Bug - 3-18-2012 at 09:03 PM

BajaBlanca,

If you want to come, will see you Tuesday up there...

BAJACAT - 3-18-2012 at 09:35 PM

yes Blanca come on over..

Bug, I will call them tomorrow to let them know your coming..

BajaBlanca - 3-18-2012 at 09:48 PM

I would love to come but I have to teach and I would have had to get permission to miss classes sooner ... I was so busy last month that somehow I didnt see this post. This is going to be a trip of a lifetime for you !!! Disfruten muchissimo !!

BAJACAT - 3-19-2012 at 07:23 PM

hey Bug as right now I can get throught on the phone i will send them a e-=mail

BAJACAT - 3-19-2012 at 08:08 PM

whats your best time from, El Rosario to Guerrero Negro..

Bug - 3-19-2012 at 08:29 PM

Bajacat... Thank you for all your help..

I leaving tomorrow morning at six from San Felipe and figure I should be up to the ranch house around two or so...

David K - 3-19-2012 at 08:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BAJACAT
whats your best time from, El Rosario to Guerrero Negro..


4 hours (220 miles), more if the checkpoints are slow.

Bug - 3-20-2012 at 05:19 AM

BajaCat,

I am off to the caves.. See you there...

David K - 3-20-2012 at 10:41 AM

Of interest, when the cave art canyons were explored by Erle Stanley Gardner and company (early 1960's), he arranged with Mexico City to have Mexico's national archeologist, Dr. Carlos Margain join them.

Dr. Margain made this map and it was he who named the canyon sites, in honor of those who did so much to reveal the art to the outside world, and discovered more using helicopters... Mexico decided to ignore Margain's wishes and renamed them since then.



Flying with Dr. Margain from San Ignacio to San Francisco (de la Sierra) was J.W. Black and Desert Magazine publisher, Choral Pepper. Choral spotted a cave high above the canyon that could only be seen from the helicopter. There was a flat area across from the cave, so the copter landed for photos.

Dr. Margain named it Pepper Cave because Choral saw it first. However, she said it couldn't have her name unless she actually went to the cave...

That feat required climbing the cliff to the cave. Black and Pepper did that while Dr. Margain waited with the helicopter taking photos:






J.W. Black



Choral Pepper



Capt. Muñoz and Dr. Margain in discussion.

More Choral Pepper Baja photos: http://choralpepper.com

BAJACAT - 3-20-2012 at 08:57 PM

YES. I think that place is magical,just by looking at videos and photos. so I can imagine what it will fell when Im really there...one more in my to do list in BAJA..

[Edited on 3-21-2012 by BAJACAT]

BAJACAT - 3-21-2012 at 09:36 PM

2 MORE DAYS AND OF TO BAJA...
TO BAD IT'S ONLY ONE WEEK..

David K - 3-22-2012 at 07:45 AM

Have a great time Jose!:light::bounce:

BAJACAT - 3-31-2012 at 01:45 PM

got back from this trip yesterday, we left Coyote bay@ 7:00am I reach Otay @ 8:30 pm,10 minutes on ready lane and I was on the good old USA..alot nomads sightings on this trip.Bug from San Felipe, BajaBuckoo ,I meet this wonderfull Ladies in Sierra de San Francisco.Bajacactus(Antonio) in El Rosario were we stay the firts Night.. Trip report and pix latter..
PS. Concepcion Bay was nice and empty...but not for long.. alot BC plates going down the Peninsula on Friday..

David K - 3-31-2012 at 06:18 PM

Looking forward to it José!

BAJACAT - 4-1-2012 at 11:37 AM

like always DK you are the firts one to greet me...Thanks my friend...

David K - 4-1-2012 at 11:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BAJACAT
like always DK you are the firts one to greet me...Thanks my friend...


Hey amigo... remember, what happens at El Volcán, stays at El Volcán! :lol:;)

BAJACAT - 4-1-2012 at 12:00 PM

The Volca'n is probably gone by now,hey didn't have time to go see Santa Gertrudis mission, maybe next time..I think Im going back to San francisco on November, BajaBuckoo is going to be there..they are going to do a tour around San Gregorio and San Pablo canyon's.I became friends with my guide Loreto,and he invited me to his ranch in San Gregorio and offer to kill a chivo (goat) and B-Bque it for me..really nice guy..maybe then I can go see the mission..

sd - 4-1-2012 at 12:02 PM

Hi Jose!

Hope your trip was a great one. looking forward to seeing the photos. If your trip in November is open I would be interested in joining you.
Thanks,
Scot

BajaBlanca - 4-1-2012 at 03:23 PM

we thought about you every day of your trip !!!! I was there is spirit ...post photos soon !!!

Baja Bucko sings a Baja song at Mision Santa Maria

David K - 4-1-2012 at 07:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BAJACAT
The Volca'n is probably gone by now,hey didn't have time to go see Santa Gertrudis mission, maybe next time..I think Im going back to San francisco on November, BajaBuckoo is going to be there..they are going to do a tour around San Gregorio and San Pablo canyon's.I became friends with my guide Loreto,and he invited me to his ranch in San Gregorio and offer to kill a chivo (goat) and B-Bque it for me..really nice guy..maybe then I can go see the mission..


One of the pleasures of camping with fellow Baja Nomads is our time at the campfire. Please enjoy our campfire at Mision Santa Maria, 2010 as Baja Bucko sings to us... (video taken by 'hbmurphy')...



The evening before that video, we all had dinner at Ed's BAJA'S BEST Restaurant, in El Rosario... That's Neal Johns next to Baja Bucko...



[Edited on 4-2-2012 by David K]

BAJACAT - 4-1-2012 at 08:37 PM

Scot, Im thinking about doing it, now that I know how it works,Im not affraid to plan another one ..you are sure welcome..I want to do San gregorio canyon..so many canyons to tour...I will let you know ahead of time.

BAJACAT - 4-1-2012 at 08:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaBlanca
we thought about you every day of your trip !!!! I was there is spirit ...post photos soon !!!
thanks Blanca, on my way back I pass the exit to AbreOjos, and we think about you guys in la Bocana...but my original trip was to the Sierra not Concepcion Bay, so that change all my plans..mybe next time..maybe in NOv you can do the Sierra trip with us..

sd - 4-1-2012 at 09:08 PM

Thanks Jose,

I do want to go so lets stay in touch.

Scot

BAJACAT - 4-13-2012 at 07:03 PM

Hi gang, sorry for the wait. I left the Mulege are on friday just the get home on friday night to find out that my dad is the hospital(he was 91 yrs old with alot health problems).So i go to see him the next day and he looks like any other time that he was admited to the hospital,so no big deal right!.well that wasn't then case.by mid week he gets worse and he finally dies in the hospital at 2:47 of friday morning..So now that I gather my thoughts, I have started the trip report just to find out that my pc still doesn't want to work with my memory card i manage to download a few, so a trip report is in the works..sorry for the delay..

ps, still triying to download more pix..

BAJACAT - 4-13-2012 at 07:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BAJACAT
Hi gang, sorry for the wait. I left the Mulege are on friday just the get home on friday night to find out that my dad is the hospital(he was 91 yrs old with alot health problems).So i go to see him the next day and he looks like any other time that he was admited to the hospital,so no big deal right!.well that wasn't then case.by mid week he gets worse and he finally dies in the hospital at 2:47 of friday morning..So now that I gather my thoughts, I have started the trip report just to find out that my pc still doesn't want to work with my memory card i manage to download a few, so a trip report is in the works..sorry for the delay..

ps, still triying to download more pix..

here we are getting ready
on our way to the sierra

BAJACAT - 4-13-2012 at 07:10 PM

going down Cañon San Pablo



[Edited on 4-14-2012 by BAJACAT]

thebajarunner - 4-13-2012 at 07:23 PM

We went up there just for a day couple years back, and went into town and the locals took us to several really good spots.
If you have limited time just go on up, they will take care of whatever you wish to do.

They were paving the first section of road off the highway and it was chaos coming down,
we followed two Japanese couples in a small rental car and they got tangled up with one of the grading machines and scraped the whole side of their little rentacar. It was ugly.... They did not have the good sense to wait, and the grading dud did not have the willingness to give them room.

BajaBlanca - 4-13-2012 at 07:59 PM

Joseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee I am so sorry to hear about your papa ..... que DEP ....don't worry about the trip report .... or photos ... again, sorry for your terrible loss.

David K - 4-13-2012 at 09:10 PM

Jose, Elizabeth and I send our prayers to you and your family at this sad time... Please don't worry about anything else now... Take care of business... When you are ready, I will help you with the photos (and anything else before then, if needed)... We are here for you my friend!

shari - 4-13-2012 at 09:21 PM

Jose...we also extend our condolences to you and your family y compartimos el duelo y deseamos pronta resignacion amigo....un fuerte abrazo.

It was great to see my amiga baja Bucko and hear her sing again...I'm so glad you got to meet and experience her spirit.

sd - 4-13-2012 at 09:41 PM

Jose,
I hope your father lived a full and happy life. My father passed away in January at 85. We enjoyed many good times and I share your loss.
Scot

BAJACAT - 4-18-2012 at 08:22 PM

Thank you guys and gals, my dad had a full and happy life, he was 91 years old with a sharp mind but sick body,, the stories and good times we had with him will always be remember.. we will spread his ashes this Saturday in Puerto Nuevo, he love that place. we took him there for his 91 yrs celebration in FEB,2012..