BajaNomad - Straight, Right

Straight, Right

Ken Cooke - 2-13-2012 at 03:59 PM

Derecho = Straight

Derecha = Right

Is this for real? :?:

Tano - 2-13-2012 at 09:57 PM

Derecho also means 'right', and 'law', 'right handed' and 'righteous'.

El Derecho de Nacer.

Ella estudia Derecho.

El es derecho.

The last El should be written with an accent, but many scholars discourage accentuating capital vowels.

DENNIS - 2-14-2012 at 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tano
Derecho also means 'right', and 'law', 'right handed' and 'righteous'.

El Derecho de Nacer.

Ella estudia Derecho.

El es derecho.

The last El should be written with an accent, but many scholars discourage accentuating capital vowels.

Might be discouraged, but:

El = the

Él = he

I would imagine that "scholars" would opt for correctness, but maybe not.

This is what anyone would consider correct, but...

Ken Cooke - 2-14-2012 at 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Might be discouraged, but:

El = the

Él = he

I would imagine that "scholars" would opt for correctness, but maybe not.

The Spanish I hear/respond to daily is generally "Thrown" at me without many of these rules to benefit me. :light:

DENNIS - 2-14-2012 at 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke
The Spanish I hear/respond to daily is generally "Thrown" at me without many of these rules to benefit me. :light:

Yeah....I know what you mean. I hear people talk like unschooled clods in English all the time as well.

Ken Cooke - 2-14-2012 at 12:06 PM

Is it also possible that the English-language (or, Germanic languages) are in, "Active Voice" while the Spanish-language (or, Romance languages) typically are, "Passive Voice" languages?

Tano - 2-14-2012 at 05:57 PM

English and Spanish are the languages today I know the best, and I never heard admonitions against using the passive voice in Spanish, but I’ve heard it often enough when writing in English. Even Word for Windows will warn you, something I’ve don’t remember happening in Spanish. Maybe we use it more in English because we are sometimes reluctant to mention who did what. I was just done.

I should add that grammar mistakes are much easier to spot in English than in Spanish, even for native speakers of either language. Maybe that’s another reason for “passive voice” faux pas warnings.

Ateo - 2-14-2012 at 06:50 PM

I always ask my wife (a Mexican) about this......

Why make straight and right so similar? Think of English - straight, right, left. All very different and distinguishable. I've had a hard time with this too......

Hang in there.

My examples....

Ken Cooke - 2-14-2012 at 07:04 PM

If a gamine (street urchin) is begging for money in the street, in English you say, "I'M NOT INTERESTED!" and you walk away.

In Spanish, that is construed as being rude, borderline confrontational. The polite way of addressing someone asking for money from you is to say, "Tomorrow" or "Mañana cuando yo lo tengo..."

I have learned it's best to just keep your mouth shut and keep walking. :yes:

Riom - 2-14-2012 at 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ateo
Why make straight and right so similar? Think of English - straight, right, left. All very different and distinguishable. I've had a hard time with this too......

It's similar in French. Droit = right. Tout droit (literally "all/everything right") is straight ahead.

And there is a similar usage in English: "go right on until..." or "right ahead you'll find...".

Rob

No, but French is worse!

Ken Cooke - 2-14-2012 at 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Riom
It's similar in French. Droit = right. Tout droit (literally "all/everything right") is straight ahead.

I find that VERY confusing/archaic!

Tano - 2-14-2012 at 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by Tano
I should add that grammar mistakes are much easier to spot in English than in Spanish, even for native speakers of either language. Maybe that’s another reason for “passive voice” faux pas warnings.

That surprises me. Care to go some more into it? Any idea why?

My fault. I thought of including a short explanation for why that is so, but I didn’t: English grammar is much simpler than that of Spanish.

English grammar is rather modular. Except for “to be,” verbs have only four different forms: present, past, participle and gerund, as in “go, went, gone, going.” You combine them with names and pronouns, a few auxiliary verbs, and you can come up with a good number of different sentences.

In Spanish, on the other hand, verbs have several forms, as the infamous “amar,” which is used in schools for conjugation primers. Additionally, they are combined with pronouns to form new words with specific meanings. In English, you use “I” and “went” together, as in “I went,” but you can use them separately in countless combinations with other verbs, nouns, pronouns, proper names, adverbs, adjectives, etc. In Spanish you say “I went” by saying fuí and you have an additional word that only means “I went” and you cannot use it to come up with a different meaning, as you can with “I” and “went.” And so it goes.

In general, I would say that languages are not about words attached to meanings, but meanings that can be described with words. That is why ‘su’, in the other thread, and ‘derecho, derecha’ here are confusing until you realize what they mean in a specific context.

English also has its confusing side: it is rare for a native Spanish speaker to ask another to spell a word, whereas in English it is commonplace.

vgabndo - 2-14-2012 at 10:24 PM

More proof that English can be pretty ugly (sic), there is certainly a place that is right on the left right after the bridge.

Isn't the spelling thing related to Spanish letters and combinations of letters always being pronounced the same way. Even with all the extra conjugations, I always thought that attribute made the idiom a winner. :lol:

[Edited on 2-15-2012 by vgabndo]

AASelf - 2-14-2012 at 10:28 PM

Crazy thing is, it's the same in French:

Straight - 'droite' or tout droite
Right droit or a la droit

I thought that was interesting when I saw the similar problem in Spanish. Latin roots?

As an aside, the word for above in French is dessus and the word for below is dessous. That's not confusing at all.

Tano - 2-14-2012 at 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by Tano
In Spanish you say “I went” by saying fuí and you have an additional word that only means “I went” and you cannot use it to come up with a different meaning, as you can with “I” and “went.” And so it goes.

Which is why I am surprised by the thought that in English it's easier to spot errors. At least on the verb side, although more complex, Spanish seems more precise to me, and it's usually "obvious" when things are put together wrong. Assuming, of course, that one has a handle on the "additional" forms...

Based on the general premise that Spanish grammar is more complex than that of English, I would say that the number of people in an English speaking culture who can detect mistakes in the speech of others is higher than that of those in a Spanish culture.

I grew up speaking Spanish but I learned English as an adult, and yet, I can tell mistakes in the English language much more easily than in Spanish. A great number of people in Spanish cultures have trouble deciding where, and if, the accent goes on a word, and sometimes they have problems with adverbs for different genders, and even choosing the right article. Try asking native Spanish speaking people to tell you off the top of their heads what the gender of a simple word as hambre is, and when they answer, ask them if they are absolutely sure.

SFandH - 2-15-2012 at 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke
Derecho = Straight

Derecha = Right

Is this for real? :?:

I had trouble with these two words when driving and I would have a Spanish speaking passenger giving me directions until I realized that the Spanish words for the directions "left" and "right" both end with the letter "a".

Oso - 2-17-2012 at 11:42 AM

Una mujer vestida en "shorts" y una blusa translucente quiere entrar al catedral cuando le prohiba la entrada el sacristan.

Indignada, la mujer protesta "No puede prohibirme la entrada. Tengo el derecho divino."

"Tambien el izquierdo." dice el sacristan, "pero no puede entrar vestida asi."

Janzie - 2-24-2014 at 11:02 AM

I really like your example, Oso. These tricks are a good way to learn; so much better than complaining that a language 'should be' one way or another. It is what it is - get on with learning to communicate.

alacran - 2-24-2014 at 11:32 AM

I like the word "ajar"and "jump a car" "jump bail" etc explain that to a non native american.

BajaBlanca - 2-24-2014 at 12:31 PM

here is what is really hard in English:

go on
go out
go in
go by ( a bldg. ) go by ( a rule)
go over to (visit) go over (review)
go around
go down
go up
go for
go under

There are more but can you imagine memorizing all these? Not for the faint of heart. It is the only time I don't tell my students that English is easy ... I cannot tell a lie.

vandenberg - 2-24-2014 at 12:57 PM

I'm a native Dutch speaker who came to the States as a 25 year old. Had 5 years of school English, French and German.

Had very little trouble with English, basically found it fairly easy.

However French , even with 5 years of instruction, is a language in which I can barely function at all.

Same goes for Spanish. I believe it's the similarity between the Germanic languages as opposed to Latin based ones.

dasubergeek - 2-24-2014 at 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AASelf
Crazy thing is, it's the same in French:

Straight - 'droite' or tout droite
Right droit or a la droit

I thought that was interesting when I saw the similar problem in Spanish. Latin roots?

As an aside, the word for above in French is dessus and the word for below is dessous. That's not confusing at all.

Hm. Sort of. (Bona fides: I speak English and French with native fluency.)

"Droit" means right as in something you have (the right to live peacefully, etc.), and it means "law" as in the area of study ("il est diplômé en droit"), just as in Spanish. It is pronounced without the T on the end, even when it might otherwise be. ("Son droit est lucratif.") It also means "right" as an intensifier. ("Elle m'a claqué droit dans l'estomac.")

"Droite" means "right" as in the direction. ("Tournez à droite.") The T is always pronounced.

"Tout droit" (no T pronounced) means "straight", as in "straight on", and it's a fixed expression, and it never varies.

In Spanish, at least it's got the a/o difference. Derecho means straight, (a la) derecha means (on/to the) right. Also, Mexican Spanish speakers will often use "mano" to make it clearer. "... y luego verás la ruta para Papa Fernandez a mano derecha."

As for the question about passive voice, it happens all the time in Mexican Spanish. Instead of saying "Olvidé mi llave" for "I forgot my key," nearly everyone would say "Se me olvidó mi llave" (My key was forgotten to/by me).

One place where French is easier than Spanish: a shot of liquor, neat, is "derecho" in Spanish but "sec" (dry) in French.

alacran - 2-24-2014 at 02:17 PM

we can also adapt thatto spanish:
ve adelante
ve afuera
ve adentro
ve por ve visita
ve alredodor
ve abajo
ve ariba
ve para
ve debajo

And many more.

Ken Cooke - 2-24-2014 at 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alacran
I like the word "ajar"and "jump a car" "jump bail" etc explain that to a non native american.

That's easy! :light: