BajaNomad - Dillema re: vehicle registration

Dillema re: vehicle registration

LaPazGringo - 2-28-2012 at 01:43 PM

We are moving this month to La Paz and have a 1-yr lease on a home. We have apparently lost the title to our main family vehicle. Normally we'd just pay $18 to Calif. DMV and get a copy. Well, that's what we tried and just heard from them today that they're keeping the $18 we mailed in and applying it toward the almost $500 they want for us to renew the registration for another year. We had planned on get South Dakota registration, which of course requires a title (and BTW, do not require current registration despite what some have posted in the past).

So what do we do? Pay the $500, get the title and worry about it in a year? Or is there any way around that?

BajaNomad - 2-28-2012 at 02:45 PM

Is PNO a potential solution?:

http://dmv.ca.gov/online/vrir/faqpno.htm

http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/fast_facts/ffvr01.htm

DENNIS - 2-28-2012 at 02:47 PM

What year is the car? That's a lot of money California is asking for registration renewell.

LaPazGringo - 2-28-2012 at 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
What year is the car? That's a lot of money California is asking for registration renewell.

It's an '05, Dennis. That also includes massive late fees for being past 30 days expired. :mad:

LaPazGringo - 2-28-2012 at 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaNomad
Is PNO a potential solution?:

http://dmv.ca.gov/online/vrir/faqpno.htm

http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/fast_facts/ffvr01.htm

You know, I didn't even think about that! File for PNO to get the title, then send it to SD. :light:

Hmmmm. Going to look into that. Surely Calif. wouldn't let me shirk their fees that easily! Man, if I just could find that title!!!

Hook - 2-28-2012 at 04:33 PM

I'd be REAL surprised if CA lets you forego the fees by filing PNO, at this point in the game. But let us know how it goes.

Here is a quote from the PNO info sheet:

"The PNO filing fee may be paid up to 60 days prior to the expiration date without late fees. If you file up to 90 days after the expiration date, you will be liable for late fees on the full registration amount."

[Edited on 2-28-2012 by Hook]

DENNIS - 2-28-2012 at 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LaPazGringo
It's an '05, Dennis. That also includes massive late fees for being past 30 days expired. :mad:

WOW....that's about double that I pay for a 2009 Jeep Sahara.

Screw California. Register elsewhere.

You could import that vehicle into Mexico for the price you mention CA wants for the year. I'm not suggesting that, but I'm just sayin'. [starting to hate that term as well]

SFandH - 2-28-2012 at 04:52 PM

They're not going to let you out of the "massive late fees" you've racked up. From one of BN's links:

If you file up to 90 days after the expiration date, you will be liable for late fees on the full registration amount.

Wonder what happens after 90 days. :?:

LaPazGringo - 2-28-2012 at 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by LaPazGringo
It's an '05, Dennis. That also includes massive late fees for being past 30 days expired. :mad:

I'm all for "screw California." The problem here is that a title is required by South Dakota, Mexico, anyone who will issue a new registration. I don't have the title and Calif. knows they "have me." It burns me up they kept that $18 I sent for a duplicate title too. I'm guessing that is illegal and hope to hear from a lawyer interested in putting together a class action against them.

I'm going to hope we can somehow find that title before the final move and if not, I guess I have to pay them. What can I do? I am so sick and tired of the taxation in Calif.

[Edited on 2-29-2012 by LaPazGringo]

ca. dmv

captkw - 2-28-2012 at 05:26 PM

Hola, I feel your pain....Ca. DMV=hwy robbery

bajalou - 2-28-2012 at 05:31 PM

Talk by phone to SD and see if they will register it without issuing a title. I know they don't care about how late the registration might be. My experience is with the Clay County treasurers office.

Treasurer: 211 W. Main St., Ste. 201, Vermillion, SD 57069 (605) 677-7123

[Edited on 2-29-2012 by bajalou]

LaPazGringo - 2-28-2012 at 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalou
Talk by phone to SD and see if they will register it without issuing a title. I know they don't care about how late the registration might be. My experience is with the Clay County treasurers office.

Treasurer: 211 W. Main St., Ste. 201, Vermillion, SD 57069 (605) 677-7123

[Edited on 2-29-2012 by bajalou]

Yeah, I already called Dianne and the title is a requirement.

Hook - 2-28-2012 at 05:52 PM

As it should be. Just any ol car without a title shouldnt be made "legal" THAT easily. There has to be some accountability.

South Dakota is starting to take a bit of heat from other states, about their registration rules.

I think CA has you. Just clear it up this year and file with SD next year.

On time, mind you...................

The idea of trying to start a class action over this is a bad idea, IMO.

[Edited on 2-29-2012 by Hook]

LaPazGringo - 2-28-2012 at 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
As it should be. Just any ol car without a title shouldnt be made "legal" THAT easily. There has to be some accountability.

South Dakota is starting to take a bit of heat from other states, about their registration rules.

I think CA has you. Just clear it up this year and file with SD next year.

On time, mind you...................

The idea of trying to start a class action over this is a bad idea, IMO.

[Edited on 2-29-2012 by Hook]

Yeah, I'm afraid it's either find the title or pay the fine. I totally understand the necessity of the title, I just don't want to pay Calif. another $500. :mad:

I took much pleasure in thumbing my nose at the Calif. DMV as the regsitration expired and all the notices and threats came in the mail. Then I realized I lost the title and the laugh was on me.

Loretana - 2-28-2012 at 06:00 PM

You'll find it.

mtgoat666 - 2-28-2012 at 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LaPazGringo
Yeah, I'm afraid it's either find the title or pay the fine. I totally understand the necessity of the title, I just don't want to pay Calif. another $500. :mad:

I took much pleasure in thumbing my nose at the Calif. DMV as the regsitration expired and all the notices and threats came in the mail. Then I realized I lost the title and the laugh was on me.

on behalf of all californians, i thank you for your contribution!

Question.....?

djh - 2-28-2012 at 06:07 PM

I see so many US plated cars in Baja with expired tabs....

Is it a big risk to just drive it in Baja / Baja Sur with your current plate & expired tabs??

Can you get a "dr." or mechanic to write you an excuse.. . . . ? :light:

(comatose, alzheimers, and incontinent, or car in for XXX service to determine roadworthiness before relicensing. . . please excuse late renewal.... ). Oh, nevermind that... I'm certain that EVERYthing that could be tried HAS been tried. . . BUT It is just a matter of finding out what might have actually worked in your situation for others.... Maybe Google it? Actually, "GOOGLE the CA DMV" . . . . Crooks!!!!

Good luck. Let us know what happens!

gnukid - 2-28-2012 at 06:37 PM

If you change the address to the new address in baja prior to re-reg it should lower the cost, you can state the car is out of state and that will reduce hiway taxes, this is a bit much for a novice to deal with but it does work. Baja is not considered mexico and you are allowed to register a CA in baja if you need the exact law you can ask or look it up. By changing from your crazy city to another the reg will go down. It's very high in about 10 counties, much lower outside of those counties.

Also the late fee doesn't sound right as I understood there is a slight forgiveness at the moment in CA for late 30-60 days.

DENNIS - 2-28-2012 at 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by djh
I see so many US plated cars in Baja with expired tabs....

Driven by Nationals, the cars are called "Chocolates."

http://www.just-auto.com/news/stop-those-chocolate-cars_id74...

http://www.ine.gob.mx/descargas/calaire/2007_inf_unal_vehicu...

gnukid - 2-28-2012 at 07:06 PM

FM-3 visa holders are allowed to be late up to 5 year under articulo 106 (depending on interpreatation) also outdated tags may have onapafa or other local temp reg, and of course there are many non-plated or out of date cars, cops only mess with them if they look like they have enough to pay a fine. There are many valid excuses, apparently, like you.

Hook - 2-28-2012 at 07:14 PM

Allowed to be late UP TO FIVE YEARS???????

Sounds just like Mexico. :lol:

DENNIS - 2-28-2012 at 08:50 PM

Good to see you posting again, gnu......missed your input.

LaPazGringo - 2-28-2012 at 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukidAlso the late fee doesn't sound right as I understood there is a slight forgiveness at the moment in CA for late 30-60 days.

Forgiveness and California don't go together. Just have to laugh at that.

BajaBlanca - 2-28-2012 at 10:21 PM

import the vehicle. insurance covers you in the states and is way cheaper. the fees are ridiculously low here. and it is not hard or that expensive ... we know a broker in TJ if you are interested ....

LaPazGringo - 2-28-2012 at 10:28 PM

I guess it's time I made what I thought was crystal clear even more clear.

I DO NOT HAVE THE TITLE.

Hook - 2-28-2012 at 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBlanca
import the vehicle. insurance covers you in the states and is way cheaper. the fees are ridiculously low here. and it is not hard or that expensive ... we know a broker in TJ if you are interested ....

Doesnt the vehicle have to be of a certain year to be imported? And isnt it about 1000.00 US, when it's all said and done?
Can persons with a tourist visa or an FM-3 do this?

I think the SD registration on my truck is only about 80.00 US a year. It's now 12 years old.

gnukid - 2-28-2012 at 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LaPazGringo

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukidAlso the late fee doesn't sound right as I understood there is a slight forgiveness at the moment in CA for late 30-60 days.

Forgiveness and California don't go together. Just have to laugh at that.

it might be only if you mail it in... I'll look it up. I highly recommend changing the address to your new baja address first, you can do it online and then register, the fee will drop. That would be the correct, legal and lowest cost thing to do.

LaPazGringo - 2-29-2012 at 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

Quote:

Originally posted by LaPazGringo

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukidAlso the late fee doesn't sound right as I understood there is a slight forgiveness at the moment in CA for late 30-60 days.

Forgiveness and California don't go together. Just have to laugh at that.

I'm confused. So Calif. would charge me less if I simply change my address? I don't get it... :?:

LaPazGringo - 2-29-2012 at 08:53 AM

gnukid, you are right! Just talked to my wife back home (I'm in La Paz, she's in SoCal) and we got a new notice yesterday and there are zero late fees if we mail the payment in! They also want it smogged, so we decided to look for the title for another day or so, then just go ahead and pay the DMV and do the smog to get current and get the title. But if we can just find the title, we can be done with Calif. and get the SD plates.

We're also going to drive up to SD this summer when it's hot in Baja and get our driver's licenses and then cut across Montana, Wyoming, etc. But I guess those questions are for another thread.

Hook - 2-29-2012 at 09:07 AM

When in Wyoming, dont miss the Wind River Range.

South Dakota

bajaguy - 2-29-2012 at 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LaPazGringo
.........We're also going to drive up to SD this summer when it's hot in Baja and get our driver's licenses.........

If you also get a mail address in SD, you can avoid all of those pesky California state income taxes....

gnukid - 2-29-2012 at 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LaPazGringo
gnukid, you are right! Just talked to my wife back home (I'm in La Paz, she's in SoCal) and we got a new notice yesterday and there are zero late fees if we mail the payment in! They also want it smogged, so we decided to look for the title for another day or so, then just go ahead and pay the DMV and do the smog to get current and get the title. But if we can just find the title, we can be done with Calif. and get the SD plates.

We're also going to drive up to SD this summer when it's hot in Baja and get our driver's licenses and then cut across Montana, Wyoming, etc. But I guess those questions are for another thread.

If you go online right now and change the address to the new address in la paz with the correct zip code and just put BC for the state (since on two letters are allowed) then the smog requirement will disappear. Again, only about ten counties in CA require smog, the rest do not. If you need a reference to the exact law to print out you can search baja nomad for smog exempt or something.

Follow the instructions noted: it's the correct and legal thing to do since your address is in La Paz now and it addresses your questions, after this you can request a title in the office or to be sent to the address of your choice, and move on to enjoying holidays.

You can change the address as often as you move! It's instantaneous in the system.

Later you can buy me a drink in La Paz!

[Edited on 2-29-2012 by gnukid]

LaPazGringo - 2-29-2012 at 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

Quote:

My only question is if I change my address, where do they mail the title? Muchas gracias por la informacion! :tumble:

gnukid - 2-29-2012 at 10:30 AM

... you can request a title in the office or to be sent to the address of your choice... The important thing is to enter the postal code correctly and the street address for the vehicle's address which can be separate from the mailing address per transaction.

In the system there is a registered address for the vehicle. Per transaction you can request the title/reg/sticker be sent to any address you enter in the mailing field.

There are millions of people who have CA registered cars outside of CA. This is your right and it's normal, legal and it's the correct and right thing to do. Obviously if yuor car is in france or germany or La Paz you can't return for a smog check nor should you pay california taxes.

OK to be sure you got it correct, once more, the steps are:

1) Go online change the address to your legal address in la paz and note the postal code, enter BC for state. Be prepared to state the car is in La Paz and will not return to CA, if it does return you notify the DMV. The car is exempt from smog.

2) Be sure you have current US insurance. It can liability only, but it is required generally.

3) Mail the registration payment in, confirm the la paz address and note the mailing address (in the usa or la paz you want for the reg/sticker.

4) Later, go online, mail or go to the office and request for title to be sent the address of your choice.

5) If you want to, go to the DMV and request a copy of title/reg/sticker after it's been processed in a few weeks if you do not receive it. I have received DMV mail in La Paz.

It's possible there wil be a bump in the road due to uninformed dmv workers, but they will get it right in the end, that's okay. Do this now.

[Edited on 2-29-2012 by gnukid]

LaPazGringo - 2-29-2012 at 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid
... you can request a title in the office or to be sent to the address of your choice... The important thing is to enter the postal code correctly and the street address for the vehicle's address which can be separate from the mailing address per transaction.

In the system there is a registered address for the vehicle. Per transaction you can request the title/reg/sticker be sent to any address you enter in the mailing field.

There are millions of people who have CA registered cars outside of CA. This is your right and it's normal, legal and it's the correct and right thing to do. Obviously if yuor car is in france or germany or La Paz you can't return for a smog check nor should you pay california taxes.

OK to be sure you got it correct, once more, the steps are:

1) Go online change the address to your legal address in la paz and note the postal code, enter BC for state. Be prepared to state the car is in La Paz and will not return to CA, if it does return you notify the DMV. The car is exempt from smog.

2) Be sure you have current US insurance. It can liability only, but it is required generally.

3) Mail the registration payment in, confirm the la paz address and note the mailing address (in the usa or la paz you want for the reg/sticker.

4) Later, go online, mail or go to the office and request for title to be sent the address of your choice.

5) If you want to, go to the DMV and request a copy of title/reg/sticker after it's been processed in a few weeks if you do not receive it. I have received DMV mail in La Paz.

It's possible there wil be a bump in the road due to uninformed dmv workers, but they will get it right in the end, that's okay. Do this now.
[Edited on 2-29-2012 by gnukid]

You have a new friend in La Paz, mi amigo! :biggrin:

LaPazGringo - 2-29-2012 at 10:47 AM

I am on the DMV site and you have to select your state from a drop-down list and only US states/posessions are included. There is no way to enter anything else. Am I missing something? :?:

LaPazGringo - 2-29-2012 at 10:49 AM

Okay, just read this:

You cannot use this system if you:
•Do not have a California Driver License and/or California Identification Card

•Do not have a Social Security Number

•Have a Commercial Driver License (CDL) issued by California and your residence address is in another state

•Have an Army Post Office or Fleet Post Office address

•Have an address outside of the United States

If any of the above applies to you, please complete a Change of Address (DMV14) form and mail it to the address listed on the form. A change of address does not require an in-person visit to a DMV office.

LaPazGringo - 3-2-2012 at 11:09 AM

Okay, spent 2-1/2 hrs waiting at the DMV and finally had my turn. The lady said with my circumstances that we should do PNO. It was $91. Yeah, $91 just for the honor of telling Calif. that I won't be using their roads. So what did I get for that $91?! I guess that's beside the point. The point is that now I don't have to get the smog test and can request the title again. I realized after I left that we forgot to do that there! Grrrr...

gnukid - 3-2-2012 at 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LaPazGringo
Okay, spent 2-1/2 hrs waiting at the DMV and finally had my turn. The lady said with my circumstances that we should do PNO. It was $91. Yeah, $91 just for the honor of telling Calif. that I won't be using their roads. So what did I get for that $91?! I guess that's beside the point. The point is that now I don't have to get the smog test and can request the title again. I realized after I left that we forgot to do that there! Grrrr...

You could have done the address change at the DMV and completed the registration and title request at the same time. I promise the system can accept any address you just have to enter it or do it in person, there re millions of CA cars outside of California. Now you paid $91 just to be able to request a copy of the title ~$16 which gets you no where except having to register the car again which is where you started. That was money you could have put toward the Reg and you didn't need a PNO to be able to register it another state you have the right to register your car in SD without a PNO, the issue was the title which is your right to have.

DMV is very frustrating. I am sorry that happened.

And generally you can not file PNO if the registration is overdue? Unless less than 90 days or is the overdue fee still due and is a lien on the car now?

You should not listen to the DMV people since they really do not know the laws that apply to people living outside of CA.

[Edited on 3-2-2012 by gnukid]

LaPazGringo - 3-2-2012 at 11:48 AM

I should have mentioned, you are not exempt from smog if in Nevada or Mexico. That's right on the form and non-negotiable. I asked the lady to call the Supervisor over and he concurred that the only way to get the title without doing a smog was PNO. $91 got me current and now for another $18 I can get the title. So, for future reference to anyone reading this and in the same dillema, you'll need to say it's in Canada I guess.

gnukid - 3-2-2012 at 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LaPazGringo
I should have mentioned, you are not exempt from smog if in Nevada or Mexico. That's right on the form and non-negotiable. I asked the lady to call the Supervisor over and he concurred that the only way to get the title without doing a smog was PNO. $91 got me current and now for another $18 I can get the title. So, for future reference to anyone reading this and in the same dillema, you'll need to say it's in Canada I guess.

gnukid - 3-2-2012 at 12:22 PM

I found the law, it's listed in the CA DMV official book under section 10.0.60

I can give an electronic copy of the law and form 256 for exemption to your husband if he's interested, PM me.

You use the white statement of facts form, check smog exempt and write vehicle is at my residence in e.g. XXX Calle La Fiesta C.P 23060
La Paz, Baja California Sur, Mexico

two sections to reference

section 10.0.60 page 10-11 and 10-12

* actual residence is in a non-biennial area

A smog certification is not required when a vehicle is located outside of California. • The registered owner must complete a Statement of Facts (REG 256) or submit a letter explaining that the vehicle is located out of state.

• The exemption for vehicles located outside of California does not apply if the residence or mailing address of the registered owner/lessee or the address where the vehicle is garaged is in any of the following cities:

Original Smog Certification within One Year
Motive Power Corrections
Vehicles Located outside California
Nevada:
Mexico:
• Carson City • Centerville • Crystal Bay • Gardnerville • Genoa
• Glenbrook • Incline Village • Minden • Reno • Sparks
• Stateline • Stewart • Washoe City • Verdi • Zephyr Cove
• Tecate • Tijuana • Tijuana Baja CA

---

Why don't you go right back to that DMV and aks for the supervisor and set them straight, demand that your PNO be credited toward the registration as they misinformed you. Be calm and polite.

[Edited on 3-2-2012 by gnukid]

LaPazGringo - 3-2-2012 at 12:47 PM

gnukid, I'm going to print out your post and go back in the morning and will report back with what happens. I can't thank you enough for the assistance.

And BTW, I *am* the husband. :lol:

gnukid - 3-2-2012 at 12:54 PM

I thought you said you were in LA PAZ right now? But now your back in the US?

PM me your email and I'll send you the actual DMV documents. Remember be very calm and patient and never get upset or you will loose this game, this step is a right of passage for Pacenos!

LaPazGringo - 3-2-2012 at 01:01 PM

I was in La Paz for about 72 hrs, then flew back to get another vehicle loaded up and head South again the middle of next week.

Sending PM now.

mulegejim - 3-3-2012 at 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LaPazGringo
gnukid, I'm going to print out your post and go back in the morning and will report back with what happens. I can't thank you enough for the assistance.

And BTW, I *am* the husband. :lol:

Too bad you are not using the Auto Club - I just renewed the registration on a PU that I leave in Mulege at the Auto Club in San Clemente. Have done it for several years now with no smog check. My understanding the vehicle must be some distance from the border - have heard more than a days drive. There is a form you fill out stating the address in Mexico where vehicle is located. You pay the registration fee (cash or check only) they give you the registration and license plate tag right then and you are good-to-go. I also take my FM-3 and a Baja map just in case but have never been asked for any proof of address. As an aside the Auto Club no longer has Baja maps. Jim

[Edited on 3-3-2012 by mulegejim]

J.P. - 3-3-2012 at 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gnukid

Quote:

As noted, there is an exemption for all of Baja except the border cities. I am sorry you got misdirected by a misinformed agent.

If you want I can speak to your husband in person to help.

In case anyone is in this situation again, when you call the supervisor ask them to pull the DMV book and read the smog exemption law, at the bottom it states that Baja California residents are are exempt except for Tijuana and Tecate in addition the majority of California is exempt, just not the most populated counties. People don't read the laws. Important thing is to remain calm and patient when you go to the DMV and know that you are of course entitled to have your CA car in Baja and of course it's exempt from smog since it would be a burden to return for smog.

As you stated it's the law , but some of the paperwork says different I printed out the law and carried it with me and still had to battle with the DMV. But I Insisted and registered it with my Mexico Adress. and behold when renewal time came around the Renewal slip was delivered to my adress in Mexico. No smog required on my truck or car.

[Edited on 3-2-2012 by gnukid]

Correction

bajaguy - 3-3-2012 at 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LaPazGringo
I should have mentioned, you are not exempt from smog if in Nevada........... That's right on the form and non-negotiable.

For CALIFORNIA, you need a SMOG check if you have a vehicle based in the bordering Nevada cities/counties of:

Carson City & County to include Stewart

Douglas County: Centerville, Gardnerville, Genoa
Glenbrook (Tahoe), Minden, Stateline (Tahoe) & Zephyr Cove (Tahoe).

Washoe County: Crystal Bay (Tahoe), Incline Village (Tahoe), Reno , Sparks, Washoe City & Verdi.

NEVADA only has a SMOG program in certain zip codes in Clark (Las Vegas) and Washoe (Reno) counties.