BajaNomad - Blocking the wind

Blocking the wind

oladulce - 3-26-2012 at 10:30 AM

Ah blustery spring again :barf:

I'm trying to design a courtyard wall to act as a wind block and would appreciate tips, experiences , and references to the science of wind block construction. Trying to protect the front door area and patio (on the windward side of the casa unfortunately) and block the wind and all the dirt that it carries with it. Mainly the migrating dirt.

It would be nice to have as much space as possible between the house and the wind wall to allow for landscaping, but don't want to move the wall back so far that it no longer provides wind protection and the dirt still fills up the house and porch.

What's an effective height of a block wall to stop wind blown dirt migration? What's the greatest distance I can put the wall from the house and have it still be effective? Should the wall be parallel to the wind, perpendicular, curved, straight?

We've tried some wind blocks in the past that seemed great on paper but resulted in weird eddy currents and sand dunes where we least expected it, and other times by shear accident we blocked the dirt from migrating but don't know how.

Because of construction much of the area around the house has no vegetation now. For some reason, on the side of the house which is completely blocked by the wind, the wind whips around the corner and eddies, lifting dirt up to the 2nd floor deck and fills up the deck. I spend way too much time fighting with the dirt and have to get this under control.

woody with a view - 3-26-2012 at 10:44 AM

that's a tough one. the wind is different in every locale so what worked over there might not be appropriate over here. what do other people in the 'hood use that is successful? i'd think an 8' high block wall would be okay but where to orient it without an over view and a lot of other info would result in something similar to your prior efforts.

this should be a fun thread. great question!

bajaguy - 3-26-2012 at 11:11 AM

If possible, use as much landscaping vegetation to control blowing dirt/sand.......maybe iceplant in various colors. Also, depending on your property orientation, trees or hedges make an effective windblock. If vegetation is a problem, consider the use of decorative gravel, or maybe crushed shells as a ground cover.

Aslo consider sprinklers to water down the exposed soil.

I would think an 8' tall wall would work, but without knowing prevailing wind directions and what your property/house footprint look like, difficult to make accurate suggestions......consider the use of glass block sections when you put in a wall.

http://tinyurl.com/ckkldos

[Edited on 3-26-2012 by bajaguy]

durrelllrobert - 3-26-2012 at 12:07 PM

May not be practicle where you live but here is what landscapeforlife.org/plants/3g4b.php says:
How To Create An Effective Windbreak
To be most effective, a windbreak must meet certain requirements. The extent of protection is related to a windbreak's height and length. A windbreak will reduce wind speed for a distance of as much as 30 times its height. But for the greatest protection, plant your windbreak at a distance from your house of about two to five times the height of the trees when they're mature. That means that if the trees you're planting will grow to 40 feet tall, you should plant them at least 80 feet upwind from your house. A good windbreak provides protection in more than one direction. A study in South Dakota found that windbreaks located to the west, north, and east of homes cut their fuel consumption by an average of 40 percent. Houses with windbreaks planted only on the windward side, the side of the prevailing winds, averaged 25 percent less fuel consumption than similar but unprotected homes.

The best windbreaks block the wind close to the ground as well as up high, so be sure to include species that have low crowns, such as spruces and firs. Evergreens can also be combined with a wall, fence, or earth berm to lift the winds up and over your house.

Some air should be able to pass through the windbreak. Impenetrable barriers create a strong vacuum on the protected or leeward side, causing some of the wind to whip up over the top and down, slamming into your house instead of lofting over it. Windbreaks composed of living plants naturally allow some of the wind to penetrate, which makes them more effective. If you're using a fence, use an open-weave pattern or remove every other slat.

The depth of the windbreak, not just its height and length, is important. Three rows are ideal, but a two-row windbreak is still effective, and one row of evergreens is better than nothing if space is limited. How far apart the trees and shrubs should be planted depends upon the size and shape of the species when they reach maturity, but there should be no gaps between the plants when they are fully grown. If your budget allows, for quick cover you can plant them at half the optimum spacing and remove every other one as they fill in. You can use them as Christmas trees, then for mulch when the holidays are over. If snow tends to drift in your area, plant low, multi-stemmed shrubs such as red-twig dogwoods on the windward side (outside) of your windbreak. Called a "snowtripper," this row of shrubs will reduce the amount of snow deposited near your house.

As with any type of landscaping, select a diversity of plants for your windbreak. Plant at least two to three different species and preferably more. That way, if a pest or disease attacks, at least some of the trees will survive. One of the rows should include a dense evergreen species such as spruce. Pines can be included in multi-row windbreaks, but they're not as dense as spruces and tend to thin out even more as they mature. On small properties, evergreen shrubs such as red cedar, arborvitae, or other species appropriate for your region are good choices. The leeward or inside rows can include smaller shrubs and flowering trees to add interest and increase the planting's value for wildlife. Native hollies, dogwoods, elderberries, witchhazels, and viburnums are all useful for this purpose.

BFS - 3-26-2012 at 01:59 PM

Block walls are seriously FEO! I had the same issue with prevailing north west winds and opted for a 3 ft mini wall with Palo de Arco pickets and Palo Zorrillo posts. Looks kinda ok. Everyone told me it would not block the wind, but.......yesterday we had blustery onshore winds and I was doing laps in the pool OUT of the wind. 8.6 out of 10.
Suerte!
Hey Ola, you ready for this weekend?

[Edited on 3-26-2012 by BFS]

[Edited on 3-26-2012 by BFS]

heres the pic

BFS - 3-26-2012 at 02:03 PM

[Edited on 3-26-2012 by BFS]

IMG_1802.JPG - 47kB

estebanis - 3-26-2012 at 02:22 PM

I have been letting the "Squirel Cage" in my head spin round and round on this issue with my future casa in Northern Baja. The 3 foot wall won't meet one of my goals to "Keep the Narcos out and the party in" LOL.
I am hoping this thread goes viral...
Esteban

[Edited on 3-26-2012 by estebanis]

SFandH - 3-26-2012 at 03:22 PM

Have you thought about using a fabric like what is used around tennis courts?

If interested, google wind screen fabrics. Make sure to use the word fabrics, else you'll get a lot of British websites selling windshields. :tumble:

BajaGringo - 3-26-2012 at 03:38 PM

We have a lot of wind to deal with out here on our stretch of the beach but we decided to plan around it. We designed the house with the front door facing south to keep the dust out from the prevailing winds. We built a rock wall around the property at a height to keep our view but minimize the dust. We then contracted to bring in about 30 truck loads of fine volcanic gravel and spread it out (which REALLY helped).

Lastly we designed our off-grid system to incorporate a hybrid system which would add the power of the wind to our 3+ kW of solar panels in keeping our batteries topped off.

It has proven to be a good solution and dust has become a non-issue for us. Our battery bank is really happy too...

BajaBlanca - 3-26-2012 at 07:30 PM

we have the wind break material from home depot and it works so well .... I lost my camera but I will try to find a old photo. we have used it in 2 different areas - both our front porch and in the back palapa area. The reason I like it is that you can see through it - so not quite so limiting visually as a wall is.

as for dust - anything covering the ground helps tremendously. plants (like ice plant that was suggested) or shells .... the difference is like night and day.

shari - 3-26-2012 at 08:46 PM

My favorite wind block has been large petates...a natural kind of woven reed wall that you can buy and order to the size you want. They work fantastic because...

"Impenetrable barriers create a strong vacuum on the protected or leeward side, causing some of the wind to whip up over the top and down, slamming into your house instead of lofting over it" it works probably because it isnt totally impenetrable and we put ours up with a curve and so it seems to spill wind instead of make eddies and ventura effects. It looks beautiful, sounds cool as it whistles a bit and works perfectly. We ordered and bought ours up at the village past La Purisima...I think it's called Carambuches or something like that...just go up there and ask for the Arce family who makes Petates.

estebanis - 3-27-2012 at 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
My favorite wind block has been large petates...a natural kind of woven reed wall that you can buy and order to the size you want. They work fantastic because...

"Impenetrable barriers create a strong vacuum on the protected or leeward side, causing some of the wind to whip up over the top and down, slamming into your house instead of lofting over it" it works probably because it isnt totally impenetrable and we put ours up with a curve and so it seems to spill wind instead of make eddies and ventura effects. It looks beautiful, sounds cool as it whistles a bit and works perfectly. We ordered and bought ours up at the village past La Purisima...I think it's called Carambuches or something like that...just go up there and ask for the Arce family who makes Petates.

Shari,
Can you post a photo of the wall?
Esteban

BornFisher - 3-27-2012 at 08:52 AM

Is blocking wind the same as breaking wind? Lots of experts here!!

Bob H - 3-27-2012 at 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BornFisher
Is blocking wind the same as breaking wind? Lots of experts here!!

Blocking wind is the opposite of breaking wind. One would require a BEANO product to stop breaking wind!
:light:

http://www.beanogas.com/

Petates in action

oladulce - 3-27-2012 at 10:03 AM

I don't have any petates being used as windblocks but here's the Jobsite facilities for the guys

There's a man from San Isidro/Purisima who comes around here once a month selling petates. He is also "Tallo man" (stems of date palms) and we have purchased many many tallos from him. Palo de Arco doesn't grow naturally here like it does farther south and Tallos are a good alternative.

Similar to BFS' windblock, tallos work well for buffering the wind and I have a little to block some fruit trees

oladulce - 3-27-2012 at 10:24 AM

Thanks for all the responses. Yesterday there were gusts to 30 mph and you couldn't go out near the house without getting dirt in your eyes. But on our back lot, which is still natural vegetation, the skies were clear and no dirt in the face and it was lovely. We tried to make as little footprint as possible when building but delivery trucks, vehicles, and material storage requires some cleared areas so we'll figure out some way to get it under control.

Maybe I can apply some of the science in Durrelrobert's article about plants to windblocking with walls as far as height and distance etc.

We've got a gray water recycling system that will be used for plants in the courtyard and proximity of the house but we don't have alot of water to spare for wind block trees on the perimeter of the property. I wonder if some trees inside the courtyard on the windy side might break up the vacuum effect lee of the wall (mentioned in the article) and I could still have my courtyard landscaping?

I'm thinking a combination of plants and structures in various places to act as buffers may work the best.

Similar to BajaGringo, we've found that spreading local black, heavy arroyo sand has really helped keep the dirt from lifting. When wind is strong enough that the black sand is in your eyes, it's nuclear wind time.

Nature is going to win no matter what we do, but it would be nice to live in harmony and with a little less polvo.

[Edited on 3-30-2012 by oladulce]

shari - 3-27-2012 at 12:35 PM

here are some photos of the petate curved wall we have and it can be blowing 30 and we are all comfy sitting outside in front of the cabin.

BajaBlanca - 3-27-2012 at 02:56 PM

your fence with the tallos loks very nice ... you don't like it enough to put all around the house ???? or do you think it will not be strong enough ?

the rock walls so typical of Mexico are soo soo sooo lovely too - get Shari to show you pics of the rock wall they built around their house ....

[Edited on 3-27-2012 by BajaBlanca]

Palo de Arco hedge

rob - 3-27-2012 at 02:59 PM

We have a similar climate to you here on the ranch - Pacific springtime! Breezy and cool . .. . here's what works, is indigenous, and replaces itself - enthusiastically.

To stop our mangos and avos from being shredded in the spring winds, we planted a hedge of palo de arco a couple of years back. This shrub is both pretty and very tough - the initial plants came from the arroyos around us, and from then on they grew like crazy and seeded little palitos all around them. We drip irrigate once a week.

Just one point - forced close together like this, they try for altitude - FAST. We cut them back mercilessly because when they grow tall and skinny they don't block the wind. About twice a year we cut so there are leaves at all altitudes.

Hope the photo works.

palo de arco.jpg - 46kB

Pompano - 3-27-2012 at 03:07 PM

Hola oladuce...

Here's a wall I did a few years back..and have a great time doing it.

It blocked the 'wind' that was bothering me.... :saint:

HAVE FUN!

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=24487#pid2254...

shari - 3-27-2012 at 03:21 PM

i really think the curved "wall" or petate has alot to do with not creating those nasty eddies that blow sand in...somehow it spills air or the wind disperses???? instead of hitting a flat surface and climbing above it or going around it to create nasty eddies.

oladulce - 3-27-2012 at 03:46 PM

Hi rob, I have one Palo de arco that I grew from seed and have been so excited at the success haven't had the heart to trim it back to a bushy stage. I didn't realize that they could get by with only weekly watering and a nice bushy row of them on the windy side might make a very good wind buffer. I'll try to get some seeds going.

Are you saying Pompano, that your breeze problem was possibly a windbag that lived a little too close to you? Luckily we have wonderful neighbors and we have a nice distance between each other.

Blanca, I do like the tallo fence and we're going to use some in places around the perimeter. Some people build their tallo fences with palm stems that still have leaves attached and say they make a great wind and view block. It's a different , sort of fuzzy and very rustic look when the leaves are still on the tallos and it requires more support posts because not much air passes through and a stiff wind will uproot the entire fence.

Woooosh - 3-27-2012 at 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
We have a lot of wind to deal with out here on our stretch of the beach but we decided to plan around it. We designed the house with the front door facing south to keep the dust out from the prevailing winds. We built a rock wall around the property at a height to keep our view but minimize the dust. We then contracted to bring in about 30 truck loads of fine volcanic gravel and spread it out (which REALLY helped).

Lastly we designed our off-grid system to incorporate a hybrid system which would add the power of the wind to our 3+ kW of solar panels in keeping our batteries topped off.

It has proven to be a good solution and dust has become a non-issue for us. Our battery bank is really happy too...

You really thought of that when you built? Very smart! You did a good job planning everything else there too. I thought I was good using a passive-solar SouthWest orientation where I could.

Our last home in Mission Beach had a rooftop deck that was rarely usable for entertaining with no practical windbreak possible. Only for late night/early morning or when the Santa Ana's come through. In Rosarito we had the same architect design an interior courtyard plan, instead of fighting the constant wind. No roof decks or balcony's facing the ocean. It's not that toasty up here, even in the summer.

I do admit to using the strong on-shore breeze for what is known in my house as the "woooosh clean". I open all five oceanfront doors and let the wind blow all the dog hair out the other side. The rolling dust bunnies grow to the size of, well- bunnies and I capture them alive before they run off to my neighbors yard (sometimes).

btw: Nice job on that windscreen BFS

[Edited on 3-28-2012 by Woooosh]

BajaGringo - 3-28-2012 at 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

Yeah - I had some time to evaluate while helping a friend with his home construction project in the same area. It gave me the chance to see what I would do differently and I incorporated those ideas into our home. When it comes wind, planning ahead DOES make a big difference.

Having been fortunate to have seen your place, Cristina and I both can attest to what a great layout you guys have. We also know what you mean about the labs hair buildup. We just have one and even at 15 years old Dakota can shed more hair in a day than I grow in a year...

:lol: