BajaNomad

Tires

bacquito - 4-3-2012 at 10:22 AM

I was recently givin a present of 4 Cooper tires-Discover A/TR (all Terrain)
I was planning on buying BF Goodrich all terrain, or Michelins all terrain.
How does the Cooper compare with BF. Goodrich or Michelin All terrain?
Thanks for advice.

David K - 4-3-2012 at 10:38 AM

I ran these on my 2005 Tacoma and they were very good... I would get them again if need be. Made in the U.S.A..

I can't find a close up photo of them, just this one taken in July, 2009 outside of our yurt at Ignacio Springs Bed & Breakfast...

bacquito - 4-3-2012 at 10:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
I ran these on my 2005 Tacoma and they were very good... I would get them again if need be. Made in the U.S.A..

I can't find a close up photo of them, just this one taken in July, 2009 outside of our yurt at Ignacio Springs Bed & Breakfast...



Thanks David

David K - 4-3-2012 at 10:57 AM

De nada... I had Toyo Open Country ATs and then the Cooper Discoverer ATRs, both were very good truck or All Terrain tires... quiet on the highway, better than the BFGs the truck came with by a long shot.

chuckie - 4-3-2012 at 01:19 PM

Coopers are Good! I have been running them, in Baja for over 20 years (not the same set) Good value for money...

Barry A. - 4-3-2012 at 01:40 PM

About 10 years ago I was running Cooper's on my F-250 truck, and i liked them, but they did wear fast, I think because they had a softer rubber than others. I only got about 20K out of mine. They may be totally different now, but I have heard good things about Cooper's over the years.

barry

David K - 4-5-2012 at 12:07 PM

While I am carefull with tire pressure and rotation, I don't get great mileage out of the tires I have run... perhaps because I don't buy the most expensive?

On my 3 Tacomas I have had:

BFG Rugged Trail TAs: 30,000 tops (really good to 20,000, if you can even say good... prone to flats easily... nick name 'Rugged Fails')

Pep Boys (made by Cooper) Futura (now Destiny) Dakota ATs... über cheap but good only to 25,000 miles. Put them on my first Tacoma after running to sets of BFGs... Having a 50,000 mile warranty meant replacing them cost just half price at 25,000 miles.

Cooper Discoverer STT... an expensive mud terrain off road tire, 3 ply sidewall... 40-45,000 miles. Look great, perform great in mud and rocks. Very loud on the highway, terrible in sand, nick name 'Grave Diggers'.

Toyo Open Country AT... a very good truck tire... quiet, good in sand. 35-40,000 miles.

Cooper Discoverer ATR... same good experience as the Toyo... estimate 35-40,000 miles. Traded away truck with them on it.

Hankook Dynapro ATM, inexpensive, look good, quiet on the highway, great in mud, snow, sand... perhaps the perfect tire for my needs in a Tacoma 4WD. I have 16,000 miles on them so far... and they are far from half way worn.

Bajatripper - 4-5-2012 at 06:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bacquito
I was recently givin a present of 4 Cooper tires-Discover A/TR (all Terrain)
I was planning on buying BF Goodrich all terrain, or Michelins all terrain.
How does the Cooper compare with BF. Goodrich or Michelin All terrain?
Thanks for advice.


I did a Consumer Reports check for you and, based on their advice, I'd hang on to those Cooper tires. They scored 66 points out of 100, which is the highest score for any of the all-terrain tires they tested. The BFGoodrich Rugged Terrain scored a 62 and the Michelin LTX A/T scored a 64.


[Edited on 4-6-2012 by Bajatripper]

David K - 4-5-2012 at 08:14 PM

Yah, the Cooper ATRs were good... but Consumer Reports is a terrible place to judge them from... Why in the world would they lump All Terrain (4WD/ Truck) tires in with highway tires and rate them on the same scale?

Highway/ street tires, All Terrain tires, and Mud & Snow tires are all seperate for seperate vehicles, seperate customers, seperate uses.

An All Terrain tire is the best choice if you have a truck, SUV or 4WD rig that spends more time on the highway than off road.. but will work well enough in off road conditions to get you through... yet quiet on the highway with fair mileage.

Traction inproves with all three by adjusting the air pressure down... Just have a pump to return the pressure to normal when you return to pavement.

BajaNomad - 4-5-2012 at 10:38 PM

No Cooper info here (sorry), but an additional good reference for all-terrain tires....

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.js...

Bajatripper - 4-6-2012 at 01:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Yah, the Cooper ATRs were good... but Consumer Reports is a terrible place to judge them from... Why in the world would they lump All Terrain (4WD/ Truck) tires in with highway tires and rate them on the same scale?


A terrible place to judge tires from, David? They use the same scale in regards to how tires handle IN ALL SITUATIONS because, as you and I both know, the vast majority of SUVs seldom see real off-road conditions (I'm not talking about Baja Nomads here, but the population as a whole). Given that fact, it makes sense to rate all tires on the same scale in terms of handling on wet, dry, snowy, sandy, etc. etc. conditions since that is the "real world" where these tires will be driven. That way people know what they are getting before they actually buy something.

Even as much as you come to Baja, I'm guessing that most of the miles that you accumulate on your vehicles is done on San Diego County's freeways and paved roads. And you do drive on paved roads to reach your favorite off-road adventure spots in Baja, right? If you don't see the relativeness of judging all tires that you might place on your vehicle in the same category, all I can say is: why aren't I surprised?

Perhaps I'm reading more into your reply than what is meant to be understood, but too often folks from the conservative side of issues think some pretty weird things about Consumer Reports, yet they've never even read the magazine. You do know, for instance, that they accept NO advertising, so they aren't beholden to anyone for advertising dollars. That alone makes their word much more trustworthy than most magazines, which don't want to offend those whom they depend on financially so they often gloss over the truth of products. I suppose you also know that every vehicle CR tests is bought off the lot, incognito, unlike other magazines, which ask for a loaner to test. It is a fact that when dealers/manufacturers provide a car to a magazine for testing purposes, first they prep the vehicle to make sure that it is as perfect as possible. In other words, the vehicle that is tested isn't necessarily the vehicle one might buy off the lot. They also hang on to some models to do extended testing on them, see how they hold up in the real world over time. Another thing about Consumer Reports that you may not be aware of is that their reliability reports are based on the information that owners of such products provide through yearly surveys. In other words, David, people who are using these products in the real world are giving their input to the magazine (I've filled out numerous CR surveys over the years, reporting my relevant experiences). Given these facts, please tell me why you express yourself the way you have about CR. Sounds to me like you shop like you politic--in total ignorance. Whatever works for you David, its gotten you this far in life.

By the way, I'm driving a Toyota today because it is the vehicle most highly recommended by CR for the type of driving I do. I'm sure you could agree that they nailed that one, right?

bonanza bucko - 4-6-2012 at 07:21 AM

Yep...but Consumer Reports has a fetish for cheap. Put two items up for review by them and if one is cheaper than another and neither falls apart the cheap one wins.

If you drive in Baja cheap should not count...experience should and that experience should come from people who drive Baja.

As they say, "You don't need a gun until you REALLY need one" and you don't need a superb tire in Baja until you REALLY need one.

BB

goldhuntress - 4-6-2012 at 07:49 AM

I don't agree with CR having a fetish for cheap. they have a fetish for value. They weigh out price, performance, and other things depending on what the product is and rate it overall. If Cooper tires cost lets say $300 bucks each it would probably not be a CR recommended tire but it would still be the top on the ratings list at 66 pts. and then you can make your own decision if you want to spend the extra for your needs or not.

bonanza bucko - 4-6-2012 at 09:05 AM

Well....maybe. But I remember a three month pogrom they had on fish sticks, ferhevinsakes....couldn't get enough data and test info on fish sticks to make a decision...looked for cheap a lot....had taste tests by everybody except a stray cat who would have made a faster decision and saved us all from prolonged gas pains over FISH STICKS...Sheesh!

Now, most of us don't give a Gnu's Gluteus for one pedigree of fish sticks for another...matter of fact, when The Boss makes them, I ask her if she wants to go out to McDonalds or someplace that has good food.:-)

I suspect that the hierarchy at CR has some bad comb overs where their pony tails used to originate and I just know that they have a closet full of tie dyed T shirts that they are too froofroo to wear now but to which they have an inordinate attachment.

:-)
BB

willardguy - 4-6-2012 at 09:16 AM

I see alot of folks running falken tires these days. people seem to love em

goldhuntress - 4-6-2012 at 10:18 AM

Ha, BB, You know I'm going to disagree with that! Hey, and whats wrong with tie dye? Lol?

Edit spelling

[Edited on 4-6-2012 by goldhuntress]

David K - 4-6-2012 at 10:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajatripper
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Yah, the Cooper ATRs were good... but Consumer Reports is a terrible place to judge them from... Why in the world would they lump All Terrain (4WD/ Truck) tires in with highway tires and rate them on the same scale?


A terrible place to judge tires from, David? They use the same scale in regards to how tires handle IN ALL SITUATIONS because, as you and I both know, the vast majority of SUVs seldom see real off-road conditions (I'm not talking about Baja Nomads here, but the population as a whole). Given that fact, it makes sense to rate all tires on the same scale in terms of handling on wet, dry, snowy, sandy, etc. etc. conditions since that is the "real world" where these tires will be driven. That way people know what they are getting before they actually buy something.

Even as much as you come to Baja, I'm guessing that most of the miles that you accumulate on your vehicles is done on San Diego County's freeways and paved roads. And you do drive on paved roads to reach your favorite off-road adventure spots in Baja, right? If you don't see the relativeness of judging all tires that you might place on your vehicle in the same category, all I can say is: why aren't I surprised?

Perhaps I'm reading more into your reply than what is meant to be understood, but too often folks from the conservative side of issues think some pretty weird things about Consumer Reports, yet they've never even read the magazine. You do know, for instance, that they accept NO advertising, so they aren't beholden to anyone for advertising dollars. That alone makes their word much more trustworthy than most magazines, which don't want to offend those whom they depend on financially so they often gloss over the truth of products. I suppose you also know that every vehicle CR tests is bought off the lot, incognito, unlike other magazines, which ask for a loaner to test. It is a fact that when dealers/manufacturers provide a car to a magazine for testing purposes, first they prep the vehicle to make sure that it is as perfect as possible. In other words, the vehicle that is tested isn't necessarily the vehicle one might buy off the lot. They also hang on to some models to do extended testing on them, see how they hold up in the real world over time. Another thing about Consumer Reports that you may not be aware of is that their reliability reports are based on the information that owners of such products provide through yearly surveys. In other words, David, people who are using these products in the real world are giving their input to the magazine (I've filled out numerous CR surveys over the years, reporting my relevant experiences). Given these facts, please tell me why you express yourself the way you have about CR. Sounds to me like you shop like you politic--in total ignorance. Whatever works for you David, its gotten you this far in life.

By the way, I'm driving a Toyota today because it is the vehicle most highly recommended by CR for the type of driving I do. I'm sure you could agree that they nailed that one, right?


You misunderstood my reply or perhaps I , yours?

I thought you showed how All Terrain Tires rated lower than best, because they are rated WITH highway tires by Consumer Reports...

I responded that all terrain tires should be rated with other all terrain tires, only... that's what I meant it to sound like.

Fernweh - 4-6-2012 at 11:50 AM

I like my tires to have lots of rubber between me and the possible road hazards I will encounter on a Baja adventure.
One other point when choosing an offroad tire: How well is this tire repairable when an accidental puncture or damage has occurred?

I have seen AT tires which just ripped further apart after an initial side wall puncture with no chances being repair/fixed on the trail. Others do quiet well after repair plugs have been installed.

I have been driven now over 83K Miles on two sets of BFG tires, the current one is a 285/75 16 MT Km2. This MT tire looks great and performs very well, but it is very noise when driven on the solid roads. I really want to go back to the BFG AT's I were using before (295/75 16), but I still have this brand new MT spare tire.......

[Edited on 4-6-2012 by Fernweh]

Barry A. - 4-6-2012 at 12:14 PM

I am totally late to this discussion, and have not read it all, but I CAN say that CONSUMERS REPORTS, which I suscribed to for years, is pretty much useless for my purposes because they use criteria that are mostly irrelevant to me, in most cases. I gave up on them about 5 years ago, especially on "tires" and SUV type "vehicles". When they did a hatchet-job on Isuzu Troopers, and the little Suzuki Samurai, that was the beginning of the end, for me!!! They crucified both those vehicles on criteria that simply should not apply to SUV's or any 4-wheel drive vehicle, IMO, and it pretty much ruined or damaged both brands in this Country, which was a real shame. They could have written intelligent reviews, but the CHOSE not too, for reasons that only they are aware of, and I found tha disgraceful and irresponsible.

I now pay no attention to CR anymore.

Barry

woody with a view - 4-6-2012 at 12:28 PM

Michelin LTX A/T are rated for 60k miles. they will be my next set. i know guys going on 80k at 9 years and still aren't at the wear bar.

edit: my toyo AT's are at 25k and are nearing the wear bar. not very good lifespan for me. they do well in the sand and mud though.

[Edited on 4-6-2012 by woody with a view]

mtgoat666 - 4-6-2012 at 12:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
I gave up on them about 5 years ago, especially on "tires" and SUV type "vehicles". When they did a hatchet-job on Isuzu Troopers, and the little Suzuki Samurai, that was the beginning of the end, for me!!! They crucified both those vehicles on criteria that simply should not apply to SUV's or any 4-wheel drive vehicle, IMO, and it pretty much ruined or damaged both brands in this Country,


there is no reason that SUVs should be given pass from rollover stability evaluations. if cars are unstable people should be made aware. if automakers sold unstable cars, they deserve to see market share plummet when independent testing finds out the truth.
SUVs are sold as daily drive vehicles, they should be designed to stay up right during quick turns.

Bajatripper - 4-6-2012 at 01:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
I gave up on them about 5 years ago, especially on "tires" and SUV type "vehicles". When they did a hatchet-job on Isuzu Troopers, and the little Suzuki Samurai, that was the beginning of the end, for me!!! They crucified both those vehicles on criteria that simply should not apply to SUV's or any 4-wheel drive vehicle, IMO, and it pretty much ruined or damaged both brands in this Country,


there is no reason that SUVs should be given pass from rollover stability evaluations. if cars are unstable people should be made aware. if automakers sold unstable cars, they deserve to see market share plummet when independent testing finds out the truth.
SUVs are sold as daily drive vehicles, they should be designed to stay up right during quick turns.


I second that motion. Barry, just out of curiousity, did you ever see the video of their tests of the Suzuki Samurai?
I would hardly call that a "hatchet job," since the vehicle's performance spoke for itself. And besides, what would the magazine gain by misrepresenting their results on those vehicles? The truth often hurts, but that's no reason to bury your head in the sand.
For the record, I owned the predecessor of the Samurai and was very happy with it. Perhaps it was that feeble 970cc engine that kept me out of trouble.

Bajatripper - 4-6-2012 at 02:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bonanza bucko
Yep...but Consumer Reports has a fetish for cheap. Put two items up for review by them and if one is cheaper than another and neither falls apart the cheap one wins.

If you drive in Baja cheap should not count...experience should and that experience should come from people who drive Baja.

As they say, "You don't need a gun until you REALLY need one" and you don't need a superb tire in Baja until you REALLY need one.
BB


If what you say were true, American cars would be the mostly highly recommended models, which they definitely are not--which I have often suspected is the reason so many Proud Americans find the magazine objectionable.

David K - 4-6-2012 at 02:10 PM

CBS killed the Jeep CJ-5 as well... a classic vehicle born from its founding in WWII and produced from 1955 to about 1986, I recall.. Over 30 years with very little changes to satisfy the consumer market for that type of vehicle. If it flipped the way 60 minutes made it look, then people wouldn't buy them... another company would come along with a better vehicle, etc.

Ford Bronco, International Scout, Toyota Land Cruiser, Nissan Patrol, Land Rover... they all tried... but the PEOPLE still wanted the Jeep.

The CJ-7 was created in 1976 at 10" longer, but that was to fit in an automatic transmission and Quadra Trac full time four wheel drive option. The 20" longer CJ-6 had been around nearly as long as the CJ-5, but it didn't have the 'look' people wanted or wasn't quite as trail worthy being that long. A CJ-8 was a pickup like version of the CJ-7, called the Scrambler.

Jeep remade the vehicle with a wider track and lower body height to appease the roll-over fearing groupies... but could not call such a vehicle a CJ... so no CJ-9... it was the YJ (Yuppie Jeep), complete with square headlights... called it a Wrangler (except in Canada).

Thank God, they made some changes and went back to round headlights... and gave it the model name TJ (True Jeep?)... or Tijuana? Looked more like the classic CJ-5, anyway... Ken has one.

The even bigger Wrangler introduced a couple years ago is now designated the JK (Jeep King?)... with a four door model that looks more like a Hunmmer than a CJ-5! Too big to do the tight little trails that the CJ-5 and its Willys smaller models before (CJ-2A, CJ-3A, CJ-3B plus the military Jeeps of WWII and the Korean War, the MB and M38, and M38-A1)



[Edited on 4-6-2012 by David K]

bufeo - 4-6-2012 at 03:28 PM

Back on topic, "bacquito" your Coopers should be fine. They're a good tire and what's more you write that they were given to you, so you're well ahead of the curve anyway.

Allen R

Barry A. - 4-6-2012 at 03:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajatripper
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
I gave up on them about 5 years ago, especially on "tires" and SUV type "vehicles". When they did a hatchet-job on Isuzu Troopers, and the little Suzuki Samurai, that was the beginning of the end, for me!!! They crucified both those vehicles on criteria that simply should not apply to SUV's or any 4-wheel drive vehicle, IMO, and it pretty much ruined or damaged both brands in this Country,


there is no reason that SUVs should be given pass from rollover stability evaluations. if cars are unstable people should be made aware. if automakers sold unstable cars, they deserve to see market share plummet when independent testing finds out the truth.
SUVs are sold as daily drive vehicles, they should be designed to stay up right during quick turns.


I second that motion. Barry, just out of curiousity, did you ever see the video of their tests of the Suzuki Samurai?
I would hardly call that a "hatchet job," since the vehicle's performance spoke for itself. And besides, what would the magazine gain by misrepresenting their results on those vehicles? The truth often hurts, but that's no reason to bury your head in the sand.
For the record, I owned the predecessor of the Samurai and was very happy with it. Perhaps it was that feeble 970cc engine that kept me out of trouble.


Yes, I saw the video's on both the Sammy and the Trooper. Guess what, 4x4's worth their salt in the dirt and rocks are inherently unstable------tis the nature of the beast. If CR had just stated that clearly without saying the vehicles were "unexceptable" then fine, but noooooooo they had to infer they were death-traps!!! "Not recommended!!!!!" Sales plummeted!!! Good job, CR---------NOT!!!!! I still have my Trooper and still love it! and unbelievably it has never rolled over!!! Go figure!?!?!?!?

It's just my opinion, of course, but they lost me!!

BArry

bonanza bucko - 4-7-2012 at 06:45 AM

For BajaTripper:

They rate a lot of foreign cars above American ones because until about ten years ago quite a few American cars were junk. Most have not heard about Bill Demming who is the main reason Japanese Auto Makers ate our lunch starting in the 1980s. Here's a link to his stuff: http://www.skymark.com/resources/leaders/deming.asp

He was a quality advocate....invented "Statistical process control" and was honored eventually with the Demming Award for quality in business process.

When Detroit was hung up on producing "Detroit Iron"....remember the AMC Gremlin and Found On Road Dead for FORD"...he went to the Big Three with his ideas and they ignored him. So he went to Japan where Honda and Datsun etc were making automotive Pachenko machines. They adopted his ideas and you know the rest about how they ate our lunch.

My problem with CR is not about American vs Foreign...I am more than ready to see GM and Chrysler go BK as they deserve to be and would be without Obamaski bailing out their unions. But I find CR to be excessively focused in stuff that is irrelevant in most of our daily lives....the three month fetish on fish sticks mentioned in an earlier post being a very good example.

I think we're on the same page...don't wanna get ripped off. But CR wastes my time helping me avoid that.

BB:-)

TMW - 4-7-2012 at 08:37 AM

I find it interesting that the most widely used tire, from Doug's list above, has not been tested as far as I know. The BFG All Terrain TA KO. My annual CR guide does not list it.

thebajarunner - 4-7-2012 at 10:40 AM

I have about 50k on my Cooper/Discover tires on my F-150, and many trips to Baja with lots of off road miles.

My only complaint is a flat last week in Santo Tomas, but maybe the 2 inch sheet metal screw had something to do with that.

Great llantera just off the highway at the bottom of the hill.
Good tools, compressor, etc.
and the huge charge was a whopping 40 pesos......
so we tipped him another buck and all was good

and the Coopers are great for the all-around use- especially since we have 500 highway miles just to get to Ensenada, so pure off road tires would be a waste.

Bajatripper - 4-7-2012 at 11:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bonanza bucko
For BajaTripper:

They rate a lot of foreign cars above American ones because until about ten years ago quite a few American cars were junk. Most have not heard about Bill Demming who is the main reason Japanese Auto Makers ate our lunch starting in the 1980s. Here's a link to his stuff: http://www.skymark.com/resources/leaders/deming.asp

He was a quality advocate....invented "Statistical process control" and was honored eventually with the Demming Award for quality in business process.

When Detroit was hung up on producing "Detroit Iron"....remember the AMC Gremlin and Found On Road Dead for FORD"...he went to the Big Three with his ideas and they ignored him. So he went to Japan where Honda and Datsun etc were making automotive Pachenko machines. They adopted his ideas and you know the rest about how they ate our lunch.

My problem with CR is not about American vs Foreign...I am more than ready to see GM and Chrysler go BK as they deserve to be and would be without Obamaski bailing out their unions. But I find CR to be excessively focused in stuff that is irrelevant in most of our daily lives....the three month fetish on fish sticks mentioned in an earlier post being a very good example.

I think we're on the same page...don't wanna get ripped off. But CR wastes my time helping me avoid that.

BB:-)


I'm one of those who is aware of the Bill Demming story and how the arrogance of the US auto industry played into his going to Japan.

I also totally agree with your point that CR can over-focus on petty stuff.

Thanks for the personalized post.

[Edited on 4-7-2012 by Bajatripper]

Cooper Discovereer ATR

bajaguy - 4-7-2012 at 05:37 PM

Just priced a set for my 2006 Toyota Tacoma today at Les Schwab Tires (NW states tire dealer)

With mounting, balancing, stems and sales tax the four tires came to $881.40

The tires list at $185.66 each for LT245/75R-16 size.

rts551 - 4-7-2012 at 07:01 PM

can I see a picture of those tires one more time?

bajaguy - 4-7-2012 at 07:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rts551
can I see a picture of those tires one more time?





http://www.amazon.com/Cooper-Discoverer-ATR-All-Season-Tire/...

bacquito - 4-7-2012 at 07:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bufeo
Back on topic, "bacquito" your Coopers should be fine. They're a good tire and what's more you write that they were given to you, so you're well ahead of the curve anyway.

Allen R


I have been under the weather so have not not been on line.
I did receive the four cooper tires but my son and my wife changed them at Discount tires for four BFG All Terrain-and a few more $$. I had no choice as I was in the minority. But to all I thank you for your advise and I will keep you posted on my feelings about the BFG's

J.P. - 4-8-2012 at 09:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Quote:
Originally posted by rts551
can I see a picture of those tires one more time?





http://www.amazon.com/Cooper-Discoverer-ATR-All-Season-Tire/...










WOW they have gone up in price I put the same tire's on my Suburban about 2 years ago at Express Tire. in SANTEE Ca. for 600dls and recived a 75dls Rebate they are very good tires.

[Edited on 4-8-2012 by J.P.]

David K - 4-8-2012 at 09:51 AM

'LT' tires are more $$$ than 'P' tires (that some of our trucks come with).

'P' Dynapros are $130-$140 and the LT version is like $180+ (265/75-16).