BajaNomad - Bleak future for Baja- what can be done?

Bleak future for Baja- what can be done?

thebajarunner - 4-8-2012 at 06:06 PM

There was a similar thread running, but the creator was demanding solutions. My discussion will not make those demands, since I do not see solutions at hand- just a bleak, and getting more bleak future for our beloved country.

Just returned from two weeks, mostly in LABay. There is no one there.

There are no tourists in Ensenada- you can park anywhere you wish, and store fronts are boarded up or just plain closed. I estimated that road traffic is less than 50% of what used to be considered "normal."

So, what are the reasons?
First, and foremost is the perception in the US that the "narco-wars" are killing folks right and left and likely they will get caught up in that mess. Every person I have met in the week I returned, all tanned and happy, has remarked on my great "luck" in surviving this terrible war zone.

How do we fix that perception (when every report of killing out of some random Mexican state just says "more killing in Mexico") We don't. And I do not see any great movement on the part of the Mexican government to fix it either.
And as long as people fear for their safety, they are not going to venture over the line.

Other issues are of course in play, none as serious as the above:
U.S. economy- make everyone a little more prosperous and the tourists will start venturing farther from home- don't know any Nomads that can fix that problem.

Gas prices- see previous item.

Lack of good fishing- I remember when you limited early and had all afternoon to relax. Now, thanks to the Japanese invasion of the Sea of Cortez (no doubt enabled by massive under the table contributions to D.F.) the fishing is lousy. I can catch more fish at our local Sierra lakes, and don't have to drive a thousand mile to do so. Nomad solution- let's see, nope, no way a Nomad can bring back the fish

Delays at the line- both ways.
I did a thread earlier on the hassle we had trying to get our tourist cards- a country that wanted my dollars would do a better job of getting me into the country IMO
Headed North at Tecate- line was just to the top of the hill, but nearly two hours to get through. Couple months ago I crossed from Canada at Blaine, flashed my magic card at the camera box and was sailing down I - 5 in another minute.
Each of these delays, obviously for different reasons, was unacceptable, IMO- Can we fix that one? Lots of luck.

My heart breaks for the locals. When I walk the streets of Ensenada at noon on a Friday and see restaurants with zero patrons- and I am talking good restaurants, not the holes in the wall. When I see the pangeros lined up at LAB with no customers.... the taco shacks boarded up.... the mercados only opening for a few hours, and then no customers.

It is sad.....
Mexico- time to heal yourself, not much those of us that love Baja can do to remedy these issues, other than sit and watch things get a lot worse before they get much better.

Just my thoughts after my annual 2 week trek around the highways and back roads.

sancho - 4-8-2012 at 06:40 PM

None, Zero of my friends here in So. OC will drive
across the border, these were people who frequented
Baja, say down down to Ensenada. This began
when the Narco's started getting big US press, 4/5yrs
back. They will fly down however.
But these are tourists
who never EMBRACED Baja for what most of us here
love about the Peninsula. Seems visitors
to Baja will stay the regulars who never changed their
opinions about the risk/ safety in Baja. I think some
here may exaggerate the numbers of tourists who
EVER drove any distance into Baja

baja

captkw - 4-8-2012 at 07:22 PM

I'm speechless (1st) K&T

Ateo - 4-8-2012 at 07:28 PM

Number one problem is the war on drugs and the media hype/selling the story of carnage and violence. Almost everyone I know used to go to Mexico 5 years ago, friends, parents, everyone. Once the news reported a few events, I could no longer get my surfer friends to go to Mexico cuz their wives wouldnt let them go anymore. Just my experience. I have 2 friends who'll go still these days and they're both people who aren't afraid of explaining the risks to their spouses and having enough balls to say "I'm going and I'll be fricking ok". It's sad really.....

Bajaboy - 4-8-2012 at 07:44 PM

I don't worry about the crime but it sure seems like a lot more effort nowadays....getting fmt, crossing the border, more expensive, more permits, etc.....things used to be much simpler. Anza Borrego is my quick fix for camping and simplicity.

DENNIS - 4-8-2012 at 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thebajarunner
There was a similar thread running, but the creator was demanding solutions.

First and foremost, Dick, I have to assume your reference is to my thread:

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=58480#pid7123...

.......in which case, I demanded nothing. Only asked.

Quote:

So, what are the reasons?
First, and foremost is the perception in the US that the "narco-wars" are killing folks right and left and likely they will get caught up in that mess.

To that...I call BS. It's old press. US folks have short memories and they arn't being constantly reminded of the mayhem that still exists, and for the US mind, if it ain't happening right now...it ain't happening.
Sooo....that is almost a current events non-issue in the minds of the traveler...unless their memory is set in stone.

Quote:

Delays at the line- both ways.
Can we fix that one? Lots of luck.

BINGO...........that is the #1 reason.

Quote:

My heart breaks for the locals. When I walk the streets of Ensenada at noon on a Friday and see restaurants with zero patrons- and I am talking good restaurants, not the holes in the wall. When I see the pangeros lined up at LAB with no customers.... the taco shacks boarded up.... the mercados only opening for a few hours, and then no customers.

Sooo....wtf are you looking at? A bunch of blind people that just don't get it. It's over. Do something else. Until the border loosens up, and there's a more free-flowing customer base....it will just get worse. I doubt we'll see that day.

Quote:

It is sad.....

Very sad.....but that's the way it is. Save your memories.

PCbaja - 4-8-2012 at 08:49 PM

I dont know. Business has never beeen better renting my house. I have people fly and drive constantly. Some newbies driving all the time. The fisherman keep coming back every summer and catch lots of fish. None of them seem to complain about all the things everybody complains about here.

Guess everybody sees thing differently.

Ken Cooke - 4-8-2012 at 09:59 PM

Two weeks ago, there were 500 people standing in the Pedestrian line waiting to cross the San Ysidro POE on a Sunday afternoon. I never thought so many Americans would still be traveling to Mexico, but there they were.

DavidE - 4-8-2012 at 10:44 PM

Somewhere down in the in the lineup of reasons is the old Mexican axiom of...

"WHEN BUSINESS IS DOWN RAISE PRICES"

TRUE enough

bajadave1 - 4-9-2012 at 01:54 AM

some things don't change. EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

woody with a view - 4-9-2012 at 03:36 AM

i guess we just keep going and be happy for what you have. just think, one day the fear will be gone and it'll take even longer to cross the border.

i'm hoping to have a little better luck at bahia in the fish lip stretching dept....

Cypress - 4-9-2012 at 05:21 AM

Not everyone goes to Baja for the same reason. High fuel prices, narco fears, the lack of fish, all contribute to the decline.

bajario - 4-9-2012 at 06:08 AM

Hasn't the border been a mess since 9/11? That didn't stop the tourists from buying up the coast. W/O disposable income, depreciating assets, lousy economies, narco wars, you have a recipe for disaster.

For mysefl the answer to the border was the Sentri pass. But I venture south more than a tourist.

I think the alignment of authorities with the cartels (what % I don't know) scare people. If they can't trust authorities to protect them why they shop for blankets and there name on a grain of rice why bother. I'm not saying all authorities are this way, but from a "tourists" perspective it could be.

mtgoat666 - 4-9-2012 at 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by thebajarunner
Bleak future for Baja- what can be done?

3 options:
1. don't worry, be happy!
2. always look on the bright side of life!
3. vote only for politicians that will prioritize fixing the border wait line mess -- the current US policy of allowing prompt xings only for sentri is killing economies on both sides of border.

p.s. i think that the homeland security dufuses are now making money off of sentri so they have no intention of killing their golden goose by fixing the border waits for non-sentri.

LaRibereña - 4-9-2012 at 07:53 AM

COME SOUTH, BRO!

US Travel Alerts: (12 Feb 2012)

Northern Mexico

Baja California (north): Tijuana is a major city/travel destination in the Northern portion of Baja California -see attached map to identify its exact location: You should exercise caution in the northern state of Baja California, particularly at night. Targeted TCO assassinations continue to take place in Baja California. Turf battles between criminal groups proliferated and resulted in numerous assassinations in areas of Tijuana frequented by U.S. citizens. Shooting incidents, in which innocent bystanders have been injured, have occurred during daylight hours throughout the city. In one such incident, an U.S. citizen was shot and seriously wounded. According to the Government of Mexico, as of August 2011, the city’s murder rate was approximately 20 per 100,000. During 2011, 34 U.S. citizens were the victims of homicide in the state. In the majority of these cases, the killings appeared to be related to narcotics trafficking.

Baja California (South): Cabo San Lucas is a major city/travel destination in the Southern portion of Baja California -see map (PDF, 286 kb) to identify its exact location: No advisory is in effect.

Pescador - 4-9-2012 at 08:02 AM

The first part of fixing the "problem" is to perhaps understand it a little more clearly. For as long as I have been coming to Mexico which started back in the late 50's and continues up to permanent retirement and relocation to Baja California Sur, I have seen major swings in the tourist numbers. It was very high for quite some time and people assumed that would stay at that level for ever but for lots of reasons like the crash of the US Economy, the increase in Violence, upswing on hassles at the border, petty corruption, and changes in social structure in Mexico, the swing to low usage is certainly noticeable and persistent. I do not see a huge difference in the tourist industry in Cabo San Lucas since that is a fly in, have fun, and leave kind of tourist destination. While things are slower in terms of building and buying, places like Punta Chivato, Mulege, and the small bergs from Loreto to Santa Rosalia all seem to be growing at a very small pace, but there are new buildings going up and it seems to be happening at a pace that everyone and infastructure can keep up with.

Up north in Ensenada and Tijuana I see the difference but I think a lot of the tourist activity there was of a different nature than we experience down south and would be more subject to the influence of border crossing problems, perceived or real violence, etc., etc., and it will be interesting to see how they come to cope with the problems.

I hear how poor the fishing is but for me it is what I would consider very good and gives me a great recreational diversion. I may be going a little further in the boat than I did in the "Old Days" but nothing is ever the same as it was in the "Old Days" so we just adapt and go on.

durrelllrobert - 4-9-2012 at 08:24 AM

Mexico is not alone. Look at how these countries eliminated tourism:
Iraq
Iran
Afganistan
Pakistan
Yurkmenistan
Syria
Libya
Yemen
Somali
etc

thebajarunner - 4-9-2012 at 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by thebajarunner
There was a similar thread running, but the creator was demanding solutions.

First and foremost, Dick, I have to assume your reference is to my thread:

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=58480#pid7123...

.......in which case, I demanded nothing. Only asked.

Quote:

So, what are the reasons?
First, and foremost is the perception in the US that the "narco-wars" are killing folks right and left and likely they will get caught up in that mess.

Quote:

Delays at the line- both ways.
Can we fix that one? Lots of luck.

BINGO...........that is the #1 reason.

Quote:

It is sad.....

Very sad.....but that's the way it is. Save your memories.

Hi Dennis- guess we can agree to disagree.
Yes, I was referring to your thread, but did not want to make it personal.
As to your belief that the fear factor is BS-
well, you live in Punta Banda and I live in Central Cal.
For the past week I have spent much time explaining to friends and folks how I could be so brave as to enter the war zone to the South. That is just how it is perceived up here- sad to say.
I have not been able to get a high school group organized to go down to Rancho Santa Marta at San Vicente for three years (after 17 straight years) because the parents are so spooked over the narco-war reports.
You and I know differently - but the masses believe it is not safe, and thus they ain't going.
And, as to the sad state of affairs for the locals.
Might be easy for you, or for me, to simply pick up and try something different, but if your life has been totally immersed in living in a remote fishing village, and helping the visitors with tacos, fishing, or whatever, then I suspect that is where you are stuck. Guess you could always open a sand and gravel business, cuz that is about all the resources available when the tourists stop coming.

As always, the poor suffer the most,
and as you say, with fewer tourists, shorter waits at the border.
Pretty lousy price to pay for better border access, unfortunately.

Cheers my friend

Dick

Mula - 4-9-2012 at 08:50 AM

Here's one:
I have a 17 year old niece in MI, Washington who went during spring break with 59 other kids from her Christian Church - to TJ - to build 3 houses for the poor.

I was amazed! Maybe the further north of the border you get, the less fear factor.
I have always said the further south of the border into any foreign country you get - the better is gets. The borders are always a mess.

Hook - 4-9-2012 at 09:00 AM

I think many underestimate the fact that people in the US STILL have less disposible income than at any time in the recent past. Couple that with Mexico no longer being the bargain that it used to be and people are just deciding to "vacation" within a much smaller radius.

When I lived in SoCal, we would do the occasional weekender in the La Salina to Ensenada corridor for cheap drinks and cheap eats and a cheap hotel or camping spot. That's certainly within an economical driving radius from, what, 15 million people in the LA-SD area? Trouble is, all those attractions aint cheap anymore. It's easy to find food, hotel and beverage deals in the US that are actually cheaper than that corridor now. Maybe not with an ocean view, but hey, money saved is money saved.

Somebody else alluded to it................when times get tough, US businesses lower their prices to attract more customers. In Mexico, they raise prices and wonder where everyone went. :rolleyes:

Barry A. - 4-9-2012 at 09:08 AM

Excellent points, Hook, and I think that sums a lot of it up nicely, at least for me. All that mentioned, coupled with the increasing hassle of permits and fees & restrictions, is what stopped me and my friends short of crossing the border, and we now play in the USA.

Barry

BajaGringo - 4-9-2012 at 09:29 AM

It's complicated but I think that it is due to many factors and the principal reasons may change the further south you go. Loss of tourism has hurt many communities along the peninsula as it has also hurt tourism based communities NOB like Las Vegas. I was there during a holiday period last year and what should have been a full house was a pair of deuces. People are simply not spending the money they once did on vacation travel and I'm sure the price of gasoline figures in that decision as well.

Add to that the local problem of insecurity, passport requirements and border waits and you see what we have today.

Times change and economies evolve. Businesses down here that are holding out, waiting for the wave of tourists to return are mostly betting on a losing horse IMHO.

I have seen many businesses down here that previously depended on tourists/buyers from NOB adapt and change their business models to work within the local economy. They are not only surviving the current times but many are prospering.

I hate to be the party pooper here but I don't see tourism coming back in this decade in any great numbers and the sooner business down here adjusts to that reality, the better.

Just my two cents...

JoeJustJoe - 4-9-2012 at 10:08 AM

Although Cancun is not in Baja, it's great to hear that Cancun had one of it's greatest occupancy rates in years during Easter week.

Closer to home San Felipe was booked up.

Looks like things are looking up for Mexican tourism in certain places in the country, and no doubt some of those places will have a record number of American tourists this year, and other places will have their work cut out for them.

Articles are from the "<Mexicoperspective.com" one of the best blogs that covers Mexico's and Baja's Spanish articles and translates them in English in a fair manner and doesn't have the "alarmist" and the "Sky is falling" approach like many of the other blogs and forums that covers Mexico and Baja:
__________________________________________________

Cancún has 92% occupancy rate; San Felipe booked up

In good news for Mexico's tourism industry, Cancún has registered at 92% hotel occupancy rate for Easter week, its highest in years. Earlier, it was reported that San Felipe in Baja California was completed booked up. Story on Cancún in Reforma (PDF). El Mexicano had a report that Acapulco was at 98% occupancy (PDF). El Mexicano also said Tijuana's Avenida Revolución and many other areas of Tijuana were seeing very little traffic. Story, El Mexicano (PDF).
Meanwhile, The Mexican humor columnist wrote about "Beach hotels are very expensive..."
You need a lot of cash / To afford a luxurious beach bash
It's foreigners who have the money / To enjoy our coast where it's so sunny. Catón's Manganitas (PDF).

http://mexicoperspective.com/

bajachris - 4-9-2012 at 10:12 AM

I still think the biggest issue at least for us traveling to Mexico is the dangerous road conditions. It's ironic that people are concerned about Mexico when every few weeks you hear about some random school shooting in the US.

sancho - 4-9-2012 at 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke
Two weeks ago, there were 500 people standing in the Pedestrian line waiting to cross the San Ysidro POE on a Sunday afternoon. I never thought so many Americans would still be traveling to Mexico, but there they were.

I have been in that ped line a couple times recently,
being PC here, we were 2 of perhaps 8 Gringo type
US Tourists in that line of 1 1/2 hr. The rest of people
in that line don't fall into the category of casual
Tourists, and the occupancy in San Felipe last week
was due to Semana Santa, not a sudden large influx of Gringo US Tourists who all of a sudden decieded it was
safe to go to Baja

Cypress - 4-9-2012 at 10:27 AM

When the US economy rebounds the tourists will return to Baja. The results of the next presidential election in the US will be the deciding factor.

sancho - 4-9-2012 at 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
The results of the next presidential election in the US will be the deciding factor.

Can't wait, if Romney gets in, Baja/Mex will prosper????

[Edited on 4-9-2012 by sancho]

Cypress - 4-9-2012 at 10:32 AM

Yep!! :yes:

since were getting off topic .....

durrelllrobert - 4-9-2012 at 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
When the US economy rebounds the tourists will return to Baja. The results of the next presidential election in the US will be the deciding factor.

While in South Korea Obama was caught on a hidden mic negotiating with the president of Russia on how to sell America and her allies down the river once he gets past the next election.
voices.yahoo.com/obamas-open-mic-comments-paint-troublesome-pi...

norte - 4-9-2012 at 11:14 AM

How do you guys know what romney believes in? He is constantly is changing positions,depending on his audience. If he ever does get elected, not likely with his foot in mouth disease, It will be interesting to see who he sells out to.

As we struggle to return to topic- ahem

thebajarunner - 4-9-2012 at 02:09 PM

Back to the subject- and no Romney, Obama or any other Gringo is gonna fix this problem, can't even fix our own.

Citing a full house in San Felipe during Spring Break is hardly evidence of recovery.
Same for the fly-in resorts.
And, if someone is having great fishing these days sure would be nice for you to share that info.

Cypress - 4-9-2012 at 04:00 PM

thebajarunner, The subject, if I'm not mistaken, is what will help Baja out of it's economic slump. I stand by my, ahem, previous post. Kick the Obama crowd to the curb. When the USA has a slight cold, Mexico has pneumonia.

fishingmako - 4-9-2012 at 04:19 PM

You Know I have studied some of these factors for awhile now.

Here is my take on some of the problem, when things were really going well, there really wasn't a problem, and I don't think it is the Cartel?

When the boom was on building of Condos etc. Labors from the interior of Mexico flocked to Baja for work, and when things started falling apart there was NO WORK and no monies to get back home.

So PETTY THEFT began and it is taking a toll on a lot of people now.

Cypress - 4-9-2012 at 04:46 PM

norte, Hang in there. :yes:

chuckie - 4-9-2012 at 04:57 PM

Baja is certainly not alone in economic doldrums...Fuel prices in the US are punative. especially for people on fixed incomes. Those of us who live in Baja arent much affected by wait times, because once we are here, we are here for longer periods of time. Once or twice a year waiting in line is an irritant, not a problem. But, I suppose, we are not really tourists, are we? I talk to folks who used to come down to visit (spend money) and the biggest reason they stay away is fear. And lets face it, it aint like it used to be. If you leave your car or campsite on a sparsely populated beach, you will get ripped off. I dont stop to help people I dont know any more, and I think most others dont either. Costs here are high. Where we used to think about how much we could save by being in Baja, we (I) now shop ebay and save big bucks over Baja prices....BUT! Its still a magic place, and we cant leave it...People who havnt been here have options. My cousin from Toronto, spent 2 weeks in the South of France, for less than flying here...I dont speak French, and I dont like Frenchmen..Mulege es Mejor!

Ken Cooke - 4-9-2012 at 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hook
I think many underestimate the fact that people in the US STILL have less disposible income than at any time in the recent past. Couple that with Mexico no longer being the bargain that it used to be and people are just deciding to "vacation" within a much smaller radius.

The Wife and I are making due with less and less disposable income, but her prescription for Retin-A in the US costs $96 (incl. tax) for a small tube. The same small tube of Retin-A in Tijuana costs a total of $14! The extra money we would have spent went to the activities to make this neat thread:

Noche Gay (de Travesti)

The bargain is without equal in my opinion!

[Edited on 4-10-2012 by Ken Cooke]

Blair - 4-9-2012 at 09:17 PM

I guess I look at it differently. I see the attraction of Baja is its remote pristine beauty. The less people there - the longer we get to keep that. Economic collapse, the perception of security issues, long border waits and corrupt government adds up to less human impact. Less human impact = better Baja. Otherwise you end up with Waikiki Beach.

Economic collapse means starving people in Baja

Ken Cooke - 4-9-2012 at 10:24 PM

You also have to think about the local people. I met this individual who was hunting squirrel in the desert. He had nothing to feed his dog but trash left over from the 1000 race teams that blew through recently.

We gave this brother a couple of cold Gatorade drinks because he was hot, tired and hungry.

San Felipe

Ken Cooke - 4-9-2012 at 10:30 PM

I talked to the receptionist at this Motel, and with no other guests, she was ready to make deals on the posted $85 Room fee.

I felt bad for the owners as well as the workers - since, its likely these people didn't get paid for the days they went to work.

The only 2 vehicles in the parking lot.

Thanksgiving week - the entire beach was empty!

Nobody walking down the Malecon, either.

If we would have broken down, it would take 6 months before another set of 4WD vehicles would arrive!

perseption

EdZeranski - 4-13-2012 at 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Mexico is not alone. Look at how these countries eliminated tourism:
Iraq
Iran
Afganistan
Pakistan
Yurkmenistan
Syria
Libya
Yemen
Somali
etc

When I left Iraq I told people I was headed to Baja as soon as I got back to California. The Iraqi people were horrified asking why go to such a dangerous place....and I was in Baghdad. The bad news is picked up by all the wire services and the foreign ones really show some nasty stuff.

EdZ KG6UTS

brewer - 4-13-2012 at 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
When the US economy rebounds the tourists will return to Baja. The results of the next presidential election in the US will be the deciding factor.

Yea right. Mitt's going to rebound the economy? Ha. Ha.

Cypress - 4-13-2012 at 09:55 AM

Brewer,
The Obama crowd has already proven what it can do. :lol:

castaway$ - 4-13-2012 at 01:08 PM

For us its the economy NOB, we just can't afford the trip. We usually make our month plus trip in December with the truck/camper/boat but just to get to the border from Oregon costs $400 - $500 for fuel, then theres eats etc.... and figuring the round trip it's a good part of our budget. Were not afraid of the Narco problem we just get out of TJ and on our way, the border crossing is the border crossing it hasn't changed that much for us time wise in the last 12 years except we get sent to secondary on the way back.
Were still going though, air miles, stay at a friends beach house, it's almost free today except a little beer money and getting raped to rent a car, but we only get to stay for 2 weeks.
Oh ya, whether its Obamney or Robama it won't make any difference until the Partisan BS in the Senate and Congress changes dramatically and our elected officials start representing the people instead of representing special interests that fund them and their parties, and quit worrying about whose in power, and if they can get re elected, well basically everything except what we elected them for. :yes:

David K - 4-13-2012 at 01:47 PM

My opinion, nothing personal okay?:

It is really simple... when the majority in the House and Senate has a R by their names, America prospers, we have jobs and more taxes go to the treasury.

When the majority in congress has a D by their names, America suffers, we lose jobs, less taxes go to the treasury and more people are on Food Stamps. Then their answer is to tax business more (after already forcing many a business to leave with their insane regulations).

The president who is elected has much less to do with our economy, but when all three (House, Senate, President) have a D, it spells DOOM.

Clinton was president during the Republican Revolution in Congress (Newt in charge), and because of the Republicans, things were great... and funny democrats credit Clinton with the economy, when he had nothing to do with it, other than to go along with the Republican changes. Clinton was smart! America did great, and money was coming in.

Now, jump up to the 2006 (mid term) election in which the democrats took control of congress for the final 2 years of Bush... The economy began to crash in 2007 & 2008... Bush got the blame, but it was congress that controls the budget (just like after the 1994 election).

The House (R) since 2010 election has been sending bill after bill to the president to sign to get America working again... The president has signed nothing... as making things better is counter to his goal of socializing America and making everyone dependent on government food stamps and medical care... thinking the more we need government, the more secure their jobs are.

mcfez - 4-13-2012 at 01:59 PM

Re adapting your habits......a partial solution to get your Baja back into your life. The Dodge Ram stayed home this time......the sports car we took. Savings around $650.00 in fuel cost. Around $240 for Sacramento to SF and back again. We packed our road meals.....no out to meals on the road. Good savings.

We usually eat out every day....lunch and dinner. This time we cut all that down to half. Spent the pesos at the local market. Fresh ingredients was for meals was good.

As always......I do not head into large busy cities such as T.J. I feel that the smaller towns are safer to play in...as it is in the USA. San Felipe and southward for hundreds of miles is very safe.

San Felipe is hard hit with the downfall of the economy....visually obvious. Many of the Mexican males have taken up positions at the gold mine. Fact is...the mine has a running employee bus service all the way up to the high valley communities off Mex 3.

We were not there for the Easter...............so I cannot say how busy it was at that time.

The homes are dirt cheap...and hundreds are up for sale. No takers. Third party information I got was the homes down south of San Felipe....are listed around $25,000. No buyers to say.

The fishing, to us..............is always good. No "fill em up to the rim" of the boat catches...............but Sid and I did great for the days out. Most spots past Three Amigos is decent to fish.

[Edited on 4-13-2012 by mcfez]

don't worry, be happy!

mtgoat666 - 4-13-2012 at 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by castaway$
For us its the economy NOB, we just can't afford the trip. We usually make our month plus trip in December with the truck/camper/boat but just to get to the border from Oregon costs $400 - $500 for fuel, then theres eats etc.... and figuring the round trip it's a good part of our budget.

drive an econo car -- fuel will be expensive forever more, days of cheap gasoline are gone, it's not politics, it's supply/demand.

Quote:

Originally posted by castaway$
Oh ya, whether its Obamney or Robama it won't make any difference until the Partisan BS in the Senate and Congress changes dramatically and our elected officials start representing the people instead of representing special interests

did you say partisan BS??? look at what followed you:

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
The House (R) since 2010 election has been sending bill after bill to the president to sign to get America working again... The president has signed nothing... as making things better is counter to his goal of socializing America and making everyone dependent on government food stamps and medical care... thinking the more we need government, the more secure their jobs are.

the partisan rhetoric suckers people into believing utter nonsense!

shalom!

brewer - 4-13-2012 at 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Brewer,
The Obama crowd has already proven what it can do. :lol:

[Edited on 4-13-2012 by brewer]

[Edited on 4-14-2012 by brewer]

DENNIS - 4-13-2012 at 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brewer

Quote:

Originally posted by Cypress
Brewer,
The Obama crowd has already proven what it can do. :lol:

The Bush crowd proved that total idiots can be elected to president. And with that came total idiotic policies. Tax cuts for the rich, 9/11, declare war on a country with outright lies, private company contracts to run the war, letting Wall st. run unregulated over a cliff. Katrina. etc. lol :yes:

Tom DeLay, whoa. Obama had a lot dumped in his lap. With every proposal for change met with stout Republican resistance.

Just saying.

Sooo...what does that have to do with spending too much money?

mcfez - 4-13-2012 at 05:30 PM

I escape from OT to here?

Sorry I started it

thebajarunner - 4-13-2012 at 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mcfez
I escape from OT to here?

Yep, my thread,
but been seriously hijacked
(what else is new on Nomad??)

Sweetwater - 4-13-2012 at 10:59 PM

I would love to spend more time in Baja and especially Baja Sur.

Reality is that the closer to the border you get, the more negative the feedback becomes. USofA pricing is attracting more dollars and the exchange rate favors Baja. But crime and criminals predominate any conversation about real travel in Mexico. Face the reality that Baja is NOT an extension of So Cal and begin to deal with the facts that So Cal perceives that many of their problems have drifted from the South.

A sovereign country has it's own politics and rules, it's up to you to decide to accept and abide by them. When the rules break down, then anarchy is the image that outsiders receive.

Santiago - 4-14-2012 at 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
The House (R) since 2010 election has been sending bill after bill to the president to sign to get America working again... The president has signed nothing...

I'm racking my brain (now-a-days doesn't take to long, I'll admit) to come up with a single bill that the house has passed in the last 2 years that would fall under the rubric of "get America working again" that the president has vetoed. If I remember my "I'm-just-a-bill-from-capital hill" correctly, if the President doesn't sign the bill, it becomes law after so many days - right?

chuckie - 4-14-2012 at 02:22 PM

It amazes me, how some people cant avoid trying to turn everything into a political peeing contest. Must be something in the water where they live..One of the really good things about living in Mulege, and NOT having TV is that we can avoid most of it...But even here, on a forum supposedly about Baja, pollution occurs...

castaway$ - 4-14-2012 at 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuckie
It amazes me, how some people cant avoid trying to turn everything into a political ******* contest. Must be something in the water where they live..One of the really good things about living in Mulege, and NOT having TV is that we can avoid most of it...But even here, on a forum supposedly about Baja, pollution occurs...

While I don't agree with Hijacking threads (I'm as guilty as the next) I'm gonna guess you are retired and don't give a rip anymore, not all of us are in that position yet and yes we need to be concerned if we would like to retire to Baja also. Just say'in :yes:

DavidE - 4-14-2012 at 07:28 PM

Is This Subject About Los Bajas Californias Mexico la republica? What? Barak Obama is serving a sexenio as presidente. Well kiss my arse! I really am out of touch!

Cypress - 4-15-2012 at 04:21 AM

Baja and the USA share much more than a border, political events in the USA have a major impact on Baja. Baja does'nt exist in a vacuum. When the USA prospers, Baja prospers. When the USA stagnates, Baja stagnates.

Ateo - 4-15-2012 at 08:52 AM

Am I the only one that thinks Baja has a great future ahead of it? I would say there is less poverty in Baja than 15 years ago. More electricity, better communications, better technology.....

And continuing in the hijack, fox news makes you less informed than watching no tv at all:

http://popwatch.ew.com/2011/11/22/fox-news-poll/

shari - 4-15-2012 at 09:09 AM

Ateo...I think you are on to something here. "Baja" is a very extensive place and what is true for one region may not hold true for another. I think people NOB tend to think of Baja from a tourist's prospective and yes tourism is down and this industry is suffering.

But there are a lot of other industries here that are prospering and Ateo is correct that there is much less poverty and improved infrastructure like better roads, water and electricity, phone, internet etc which has improved life in the remote areas. There is a growing middle class and seems to be more money in circulation.

Our village is thriving on it's fishery and there are new mexican houses springing up everywhere, people have new vehicles and appliances and money is being circulated in a vibrant economy...perhaps because this isnt a tourist area. Locals are buying and building houses more in the last few years.

There is also much more mexican tourism now...for example in the whale watching lagoons, there were fewer NOB visitors but many many more mexican visitors..and the ticket price is the same for all...so there was an increase in visitors this year. Mexico is realizing that national tourism is vital and they have altered the promotions to reflect this new trend. Changes in client base are normal and mexico is certainly realizing this and reacting.

While of course I agree that times are tough in many tourist based areas due to the perception of violence peninsula wide...and yes I admit there are problems with crime more than the old days...but changes are being made to improve the legal system slowly but surely, the place is much cleaner than the old days, roads are better, infrastructure is better, there is less corruption, and I certainly see a more vibrant economy and more employment....so I cant really say the future is bleak for Baja at all.

Ateo - 4-15-2012 at 09:21 AM

Exactly Shari.

castaway$ - 4-15-2012 at 09:28 AM

I second and third Ateo and Sheri. Baja may be struggling in some ways but we all are. In the 12 years we have been going there the infrastucture has improved significantly, just look at Mex 1 as an example. We love Baja and we will keep going theres just too many places to explore, too many beautiful people to meet and too much good food, it gets into your soul.

BajaRat - 4-15-2012 at 09:44 AM

Everything waxes and wanes. What is not sustainable will not survive. The history of Baja California has proven this countless times and these moments to will be history.
Choose wisely and prepare for a brave new world. :cool: